Unreported News, Commentary, Resources and Discussion of Bible Prophecy
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Abiding in His Word wrote:Hi Mr Baldy,
I find this post a bit confusing. For example, to even try to find scripture where Jesus claims to be 100% man is pointless since He (and us) would be denying His deity. There is scripture, however, where Jesus calls Himself "I Am" which words are the same that God used to identify Himself. (John 8:58) Also proof of His deity and oneness with the Father is when He told Phillip that he who has seen Him has seen the Father. (John 14:9)
I can appreciate the objections by non-believers to these truths as they do not see with the same spiritual eyes and understanding as believers. Even so, the death and resurrection of Jesus proves His human/divine natures and according to scripture He appeared to over 500 following his resurrection. (1 Cor. 15:6)
Hopefully, I provided some useful answers....
WOODHENOT3 wrote:,Can you prove that you're "100% born again"?
Exit40 wrote:Would you accept the phrase 'Son of man' as whom Jesus referred to himself as fully man ? There are hundreds of verses where this phrase is used, many of those refer to Jesus. Here are a few which may answer your question...
[Mat 12:8 KJV] 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
[Mat 20:28 KJV] 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
[Jhn 3:13 KJV] 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.
[Jhn 5:27 KJV] 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
[Luk 10:22 KJV] 22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and [he] to whom the Son will reveal [him].
Do a search of the surrounding verses for context. Hope this helps.
God Bless You
David
Resurrection Torchlight wrote:Mr. Baldy how can you prove you are a human being?
Percentages aside, Jesus was born as a human, to a human mother, he grew up as a human, He lived as a human, walked as a human, talked as a human, he was a human. He had both human DNA and divine DNA, He was both human and God. We like to put percentages on it, but scripture doesn't do so. He fully lived as a human being while here on earth, yet He also fully shared in His divine nature as well. He was fully God's son, and fully Mary's son, a descendant of David.
RT
Mr Baldy wrote:However, can you use exactly what you have presented to edify this Body of Christ and elaborate on why you chose the aforementioned passages of Scripture that you have provided?
Exit40 wrote:And I believe the term 'Son of Man' refers to Jesus's humanity as being 100%. The only possible offspring of man ... is man ... so that takes care of the 100% human portion in answer to your question.
Mr Baldy wrote:Resurrection Torchlight wrote:Mr. Baldy how can you prove you are a human being?
Percentages aside, Jesus was born as a human, to a human mother, he grew up as a human, He lived as a human, walked as a human, talked as a human, he was a human. He had both human DNA and divine DNA, He was both human and God. We like to put percentages on it, but scripture doesn't do so. He fully lived as a human being while here on earth, yet He also fully shared in His divine nature as well. He was fully God's son, and fully Mary's son, a descendant of David.
RT
Hi RT,
I hope that your question about me proving myself as a human being was rhetorical- even if it wasn't for the sake of edifying the Body of Christ, I will assume that it was.
I ALMOST like the rest of your response - but you mentioned something that has caused me to have some concern.
You said that Jesus "had both human DNA and divine DNA".
Fact of the matter is, you cannot prove either.
First - Jesus was NEVER created. Second, there is no such thing as "divine DNA". That would be an oxymoron.
Abiding in His Word wrote:Jesus was born of a virgin without a human father.
John 1-5 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Deity of Jesus Christ
1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2) He was in the beginning with God. 3) All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4) In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5) The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Colossians 1:15-22 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16) For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17) He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18) He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19) For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20) and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
21) And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22) yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach
keithareilly wrote:Mr. Baldy,
Hebrews 4:15 NASB
15For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses,
but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
This is the verse I use to remind myself that Jesus was a man, 100 percent a man.
If Jesus can be tempted "in all things as we are" then He experienced exactly what we experience to the fullness of what we experience.
This experience with the fullness of man is part of what qualifies Him as "The High Priest" of man;
Get It? "The High Priest of Man", the best Adam of Adam's kind.
I can think of no better argument that exemplifies the fullness of His humanness.
Keith
Sonbeam wrote:Hi Mr Baldy! Such an interesting subject you have raised. Just have to join you in the discussion. So here it goes. You said, “Jesus was NEVER created. “ and you are partly right. He was not created in the spiritual sense. He has always been God. However, in the physical sense, i.e., His body of flesh, He was. With divine DNA no less. Actually if we stop to think about it. All human DNA is divine. It didn’t come from “slime or the primordial soup” unless one believes in evolution. God created DNA when He made Adam. And Adam's God-given divine DNA has been replicated to this day. Back to the second Adam and how His body of flesh was created. The Holy Spirit created the 23 chromosomes (which included the Y chromosome that determined that Christ would have a male body of flesh) that are normally supplied by a human father to join the 23 chromosomes that come from a human mother , in this case Mary, to form/create Christ’s boy of flesh.
Abiding in His Word wrote:My conclusion is that Jesus is both God and man in one. The fact that He hungered, wept, expressed sorrow and anger, etc. is common to the human nature. The fact that He healed the sick, raised the dead, and forgave sinners reflects His Deity. ETA: No human could walk on water....![]()
It's one of those truths like the Trinity that is difficult (if not impossible) for us to comprehend.
keithareilly wrote:The idea that Jesus is a certain percent God and a certain percent man is not logical. If Jesus is man then, "Jesus is a man" is a true statement. If Jesus is God then, "Jesus is God" is a true statement. Neither statement is more or less true than the other.
keithareilly wrote:I am of the view that Jesus is 100 percent God and 100 percent man. Just as I am 100 percent my fathers son and 100 percent my mother's son. The amount of DNA within me from my mother or father is irrelevant.To be less than 100 percent my father's son I would have to have essence from another father. To be less than 100 percent my mother's son I would have to have essence from another mother. Just like the rest of us, Jesus is 100 percent his father's son and 100 percent his mother's son.
Mr Baldy wrote:Ok...........for those of you who are reading this - I just want you to know that I am attempted to illustrate a point; based on Scripture of course....
But based on what has been mentioned in the aforementioned passages of Scripture that I have provided, AND Abiding's response - I respectfully ask has a different perspective been placed on your thoughts in relation to the Subject of this Thread?
19) For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,
Abiding in His Word wrote:The Commentaries I have in E-Sword (Barnes, Gill, Clarke, and Robertson's) all agree the word "Father's" was/is not in the original manuscripts. The insertion of that word changes the intended meaning of Christ's preeminence in reconciling all things to Himself to erroneously implying that the fullness of the Godhead depended on the Father. In other words, the majesty, power, and goodness of God is manifested in and by Christ Jesus, and thus by him the Father reconciles all things to himself.
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 - American Standard Version (ASV)
24) Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25) For He must reign, till He hath put all His enemies under His feet. 26) The last enemy that shall be abolished is death. 27) For, He put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that He is excepted who did subject all things unto Him. 28) And when all things have been subjected unto Him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to Him that did subject all things unto Him, that God may be ALL in ALL.
Philippians 2:5-8 - American Standard Version (ASV)
5) Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6) who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7) but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; 8) and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross.
John 14:7-9 - American Standard Version (ASV)
7) If ye had known Me, ye would have known My Father also: from henceforth ye know Him, and have seen Him. 8) Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know Me, Philip? he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father?
Mr Baldy wrote:Scripture is very, very CLEAR about the Deity of Jesus!
Jesus Himself - while in His humanity explicitly stated that the FATHER is Greater than Himself (John 14:28). Hence the Subject matter of this thread - and what I believe is leading to a very comprehensive study thereof.
9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know Me, Philip? he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father[/u][/color][/size]?
Perhaps the reading and reliability of Scripture is in order - and not "commentaries" of mere men?
Abiding in His Word wrote:Neither I nor the commentaries I mentioned dispute the deity of Jesus. Just the lack of the word "Father's" in Col. 2:19.
Abiding in His Word wrote:Yes, Jesus is the visible God in the form of flesh.
Abiding in His Word wrote:My observation was not made to complicate, but merely to be certain that we are not interpreting that verse to imply a hierarchy in the Trinity.
keithareilly wrote:Man is the image of God. For Christ to become a human, He must become an image of God.
Mr Baldy wrote:Your aforementioned comment is one of the reasons why I wanted to delve into Scripture and solicit ideas about Jesus. I think as more Scriptural information comes in, we "may" just learn exactly what you have mentioned - in that there is "on hierarchy in the Trinity". No man can completely understand the Godhead - yet many try to put God in a box to understand Him. They want to call Jesus "The Second Person in the Trinity" or "The Second Member of the Godhead"; or "He is 100% man and 100% God" - Statements like this do establish a "hierarchy", and I personally believe it's wrong.
Mr Baldy wrote:keithareilly wrote:Man is the image of God. For Christ to become a human, He must become an image of God.
Are you suggesting that Christ is human
Mr Baldy wrote:Sonbeam wrote:Hi Mr Baldy! Such an interesting subject you have raised. Just have to join you in the discussion. So here it goes. You said, “Jesus was NEVER created. “ and you are partly right. He was not created in the spiritual sense. He has always been God. However, in the physical sense, i.e., His body of flesh, He was. With divine DNA no less. Actually if we stop to think about it. All human DNA is divine. It didn’t come from “slime or the primordial soup” unless one believes in evolution. God created DNA when He made Adam. And Adam's God-given divine DNA has been replicated to this day. Back to the second Adam and how His body of flesh was created. The Holy Spirit created the 23 chromosomes (which included the Y chromosome that determined that Christ would have a male body of flesh) that are normally supplied by a human father to join the 23 chromosomes that come from a human mother , in this case Mary, to form/create Christ’s boy of flesh.
Hi Sonbeam,
Thank you for your response. I have embolden a portion of your aforementioned statement - as I would like to make my own comments to reflect on what you have mentioned. I hope that you don't mind![]()
First, if you'll please notice the passages of Scripture that I previously provided when I responded to a very important comment that Abiding made: John 1:1-5 & Colossians 1:15-22.
Now John 1:1-5 & Colossians 1:15-22 are VERY IMPORTANT passages of Scripture as it relates to the Deity of Christ, His Divine Nature; and his Overall Supremacy. It's important that you take notice of this, as I respond to your aforementioned comments.
So, you have mentioned the term "divine DNA" - as it relates to the "physical body" that Christ possessed - further implying that because He possessed this "physical body" that He had to be created. Well, Scripture wholeheartedly refutes your comments - and so do I.
To believe in what you are suggesting is to suggest that God created Himself. Well, that is completely debunked with Scripture that clearly states that Christ was NEVER CREATED - He always was. (John 1:1-5) You go on to mention about the 23 chromosomes that the "Holy Spirit created" to include the "Y" chromosome that "determined Christ would have a male body" in your analogy.
I'm sorry Sonbeam - and certainly with all respect..........you are totally WRONG.
“Yes, Jesus is the visible God in the form of flesh.”
You must remember, Jesus was NOT always Flesh. So, is He currently in Heaven now in the Flesh?
keithareilly wrote:Is He still human after His ascension? I do not know. But it would be wrong to assume that He is not human just because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Flesh and blood in the resurrected form can indeed inherit the Kingdom of God. And all humans shall be resurrected.
Keith
Jericho wrote:Here's a question, why did Jesus come to the earth the way he did? Being born as a baby? He could have have come fully incarnate if he wanted to, the same way the angels in Genesis 18-19 did. But he chose not to, why?
keithareilly wrote:Christ became human and was resurrected. His resurrection did not require the loss of His humanness.
keithareilly wrote:Is He still human after His ascension? I think so because of His role of High Priest. It would be wrong to assume that He is not still human just because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Humans in the resurrected form can indeed inherit the Kingdom of God. And all humans shall be resurrected.
Sonbeam wrote:I see you didn’t quite grasp the distinction I made between the spiritual and the material nature of Jesus Christ while He walked this earth. So please explain to me why you think I’m totally wrong about Jesus’ physical nature having a beginning or creation point
Jericho wrote:I think it's of interest to note that after his resurrection he said he was flesh and bone (Luke 24:39), and not flesh and blood. I'm not sure exactly what all that implies, but its interesting distinction none the less.
Pardon me Keith, but absolutely no where in Scripture will you ever read that "Christ became human."
keithareilly wrote:The Word became human
keithareilly wrote:Christ became human.
keithareilly wrote:Acts 17:30-31 NASB
30 Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness [v]through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”
This verse talks about the Man, Jesus, who will judge the world, who was raised from the dead.
Keith
Colossians 2:9-10 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
9) For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10) and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority
Sonbeam wrote:Mr. Baldy, how about you quit being coy with us and let us know what you really believe on the subject of this thread?
1 Corinthians 15:20-28 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)
20) But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21) For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23) But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24) then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25) For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26) The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27) For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28) When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be All in All.
Hebrews 1:8-9 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)
8) But of the Son He says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom."
9)
“You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness above Your companions.”
Matthew 11:27
27All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Matthew 1:18
18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.
Luke 1:30–35
30The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; 33and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.” 34Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?” 35The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
Philippians 2:5–7
5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Hebrews 2:14–18
14Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives. 16For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham. 17Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
.
Hebrews 9:13–18
13For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. 17For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. 18Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood.
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