Brian Houston: “the Muslim and you, we actually serve the sa

[LONGINGFORHOME]

http://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2014/03/ ... -same-god/

[GodsStudent]

Brian Houston: “the Muslim and you, we actually serve the same God”

THIS IS A LIE FROM THE PITS OF HELL. WE DO NOT SERVE THE SAME GOD. THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD. THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB AND HIS SON, CHRIST JESUS, THIS IS THE ONE AND THE ONLY GOD.

[weepingwillow]

THIS IS A LIE FROM THE PITS OF HELL. WE DO NOT SERVE THE SAME GOD. THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD. THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB AND HIS SON, CHRIST JESUS, THIS IS THE ONE AND THE ONLY GOD.

Right on!

[Jay Ross]

Where is Brian Houston coming from?

If he is talking about the Hillsong denomination/Ex AOG then what he is saying is that both are serving the same God.

If God is using the Islamic religion to bring judgement on those who would call Jesus Lord, Lord, then Brian is correct and both are "serving" the same god but not necessarily the God of Salvation who will redeem the righteous at the Last Judgement Seat and give them their inheritance.

Last night I was speaking to a worship leader from a small church which I am attending at the moment. He was commenting that he had moved away from even considering any Hillsong worship song because in his opinion their songs and style of worship lacked any "theological" credibility within the words that the songs contained.

IMHO Hillsong have exported their style of excesses around the world and not the real heart of worship in their pursuit for excellence in worship. In Australia, it is the Church industry that is keeping the music supply industry viable within Australia and I would guess that is also true in other countries around the world.

Be that as it may be, Brian is a successful motivator who uses the "Biblical truths" to grow and expand "his church."

Did not Jesus tell us to leave them alone, and for us to focus on our own relationship with Him and to be faithful in our own personal service to him?

Shalom

Jay Ross

[GodsStudent]

Jay, I don't think the word "serve" can have such a flexible tone, and there are too many people out there right now who like to say "your god is my god and my god is your god" and they are from all sorts of religions (not denominations). It makes everyone feel all warm and fuzzy to think we can all just "get along." Well...we really cant.....my bible says my God is a jealous God....so...

and to use a twist on words to manipulate a meaning out of the word "serving"...well....it's more akin to a lie than the truth in my mind. We aren't all working together to serve the One True God's purposes in my mind. There are those who the One True God will allow (those who actually work against His People) to get away with their deeds in order that judgment be cast, but they, in no way, are motivated to do it as a service to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob....they are trying to serve their own god and that's what their conscious motivation is....

So, for someone who calls themselves a Christian to step all over the truth to "make a point"....well....they still stepped all over the truth in my book.

[Jay Ross]

Jay, I don't think the word "serve" can have such a flexible tone, and there are too many people out there right now who like to say "your god is my god and my god is your god" and they are from all sorts of religions (not denominations). It makes everyone feel all warm and fuzzy to think we can all just "get along." Well...we really cant.....my bible says my God is a jealous God....so...

and to use a twist on words to manipulate a meaning out of the word "serving"...well....it's more akin to a lie than the truth in my mind. We aren't all working together to serve the One True God's purposes in my mind. There are those who the One True God will allow (those who actually work against His People) to get away with their deeds in order that judgment be cast, but they, in no way, are motivated to do it as a service to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob....they are trying to serve their own god and that's what their conscious motivation is....

So, for someone who calls themselves a Christian to step all over the truth to "make a point"....well....they still stepped all over the truth in my book.

If you had carefully read my post, you would have seen that I was stating that Islam and Hillsong are serving God's purposes, and my view was not complimentary for Hillsong in that I was suggesting that Hillsong was not a place I would chose to be associated with and that the outcome for people mixed up in that feel good religion would not be judged as being righteous at the time that matters. As such both islam and Hillsong are serving the same god but not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Even though Hillsong may be presenting a flawed theological understanding of the Gospel of Christ, this was Christ's response found in mark that I was referring too in my previous post: -

Mark 9:33-50: - 33 And they came to Caper'na-um; and when he was in the house he asked them, "What were you discussing on the way?" 34 But they were silent; for on the way they had discussed with one another who was the greatest. 35 And he sat down and called the twelve; and he said to them, "If any one would be first, he must be last of all and servant of all." 36 And he took a child, and put him in the midst of them; and taking him in his arms, he said to them, 37 "Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me; and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me."

38 John said to him, "Teacher, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he was not following us." 39 But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him; for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon after to speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is for us. 41 For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ, will by no means lose his reward.

42 "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung round his neck and he were thrown into the sea. 43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, 48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. 49 For every one will be salted with fire. 50 Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its saltness, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another."

That was also why I said this: -

Did not Jesus tell us to leave them alone, and for us to focus on our own relationship with Him and to be faithful in our own personal service to him?

As such, it is God's responsibility to Judge the "works" of Brian Houston as surely as he will judge our own. If we begin to Judge Brian Houston's works than we will be judged accordingly as well.

Finding fault with others all the time within the "body of Christ" is not a good reflection on our own lives and we will fall because of it.

Shalom

Jay Ross

[sacredcowbasher]

Mark 9:33-50: - 33 And they came to Caper'na-um; and when he was in the house he asked them, "What were you discussing on the way?" 34 But they were silent; for on the way they had discussed with one another who was the greatest. 35 And he sat down and called the twelve; and he said to them, "If any one would be first, he must be last of all and servant of all." 36 And he took a child, and put him in the midst of them; and taking him in his arms, he said to them, 37 "Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me; and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me."

38 John said to him, "Teacher, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he was not following us." 39 But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him; for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon after to speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is for us. 41 For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ, will by no means lose his reward.

42 "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung round his neck and he were thrown into the sea. 43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, 48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. 49 For every one will be salted with fire. 50 Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its saltness, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another."

That was also why I said this: -

Did not Jesus tell us to leave them alone, and for us to focus on our own relationship with Him and to be faithful in our own personal service to him?

As such, it is God's responsibility to Judge the "works" of Brian Houston as surely as he will judge our own. If we begin to Judge Brian Houston's works than we will be judged accordingly as well.

Finding fault with others all the time within the "body of Christ" is not a good reflection on our own lives and we will fall because of it.

Shalom

Jay Ross

Jay, it is our responsibility to call out those who preach false doctrine. It ruins Christian's lives. Jesus said, (paraphrase) first remove the beam that is in your own eye, then you will be able to see clearly to remove the spec that is in your brother's eye.
When church leaders either get messed up by money or just get caught up in church growth, they need to be called out.

When they compromise the simple truth of the word of God, they lead people astray. God will judge us one day if we do not say anything at all and let them continue to lead our brothers and sisters astray.

Paul called some 'ministers of Satan' and 'enemies of the cross'.

The ones Jesus was referring to who were doing His will but were not part of the twelve, were not preaching false doctrine. Did Jesus leave the Pharisees alone?

[imirish01]

Us "calling out" Brian Houston on this message board is not necessarily biblical in that Paul "directly" called out those who taught false doctrine. Yes, Brian is wrong if he says we serve the same God. Us "calling out" does not edify anyone particularly in that all of us here know we don't serve the same God. None of us here is a leader, as Paul was, who is responsible for mentoring or pastoring a church. I am not a big fan of picking out bible verses to justify tearing someone down. Telling the truth is a good thing to do. But sometimes, these type of posts gather the stone throwing crowd ready to pick up a stone and let it fly. I think it is important to bring this information, but I am careful about responding because sometimes the motive to post it is to stir up negative talk on church leaders.

Historically, Houston has pointed to Jesus in his teaching. Has he made a mistake now. You bet. So, pray for him and ask The Lord to help him and bring him truth. As a leader, when he screws up, it is a public screw up. Leaders are human just like us. We screw up, they screw up. Pray for him ;)

[Jay Ross]

<snip>

Jay, it is our responsibility to call out those who preach false doctrine. It ruins Christian's lives. Jesus said, (paraphrase) first remove the beam that is in your own eye, then you will be able to see clearly to remove the spec that is in your brother's eye.
When church leaders either get messed up by money or just get caught up in church growth, they need to be called out.

When they compromise the simple truth of the word of God, they lead people astray. God will judge us one day if we do not say anything at all and let them continue to lead our brothers and sisters astray.

Paul called some 'ministers of Satan' and 'enemies of the cross'.

The ones Jesus was referring to who were doing His will but were not part of the twelve, were not preaching false doctrine. Did Jesus leave the Pharisees alone?

I am not that sure that my theological understanding is perfect in any way that i could speak with the necessary recognised authority to bring correction in anyone else's life. That was why I said that it was God's business and not my business.

Imirish01 makes perfect sense, Bless the man by asking God to Bless Him with His correction should he need it from God's own understanding of what should be done. I would not dare to tell God what to do.

Shalom

Jay Ross

[LONGINGFORHOME]

Us "calling out" Brian Houston on this message board is not necessarily biblical in that Paul "directly" called out those who taught false doctrine. Yes, Brian is wrong if he says we serve the same God. Us "calling out" does not edify anyone particularly in that all of us here know we don't serve the same God. None of us here is a leader, as Paul was, who is responsible for mentoring or pastoring a church. I am not a big fan of picking out bible verses to justify tearing someone down. Telling the truth is a good thing to do. But sometimes, these type of posts gather the stone throwing crowd ready to pick up a stone and let it fly. I think it is important to bring this information, but I am careful about responding because sometimes the motive to post it is to stir up negative talk on church leaders.

Historically, Houston has pointed to Jesus in his teaching. Has he made a mistake now. You bet. So, pray for him and ask The Lord to help him and bring him truth. As a leader, when he screws up, it is a public screw up. Leaders are human just like us. We screw up, they screw up. Pray for him ;)

You assume falsely that I did not call him out directly, I did send him several messages to which he has not responded, although he has responded to some of my messages before. As for mentoring a church, you may not have that responsibility, but I do, I mentor pastors and youth leaders in quite a few churches who also like hillsong, that was one of the reasons for my post. Be careful when you equivocate "stone throwing " with pointing out error, its just not the same thing.

[LONGINGFORHOME]

I am not that sure that my theological understanding is perfect in any way that i could speak with the necessary recognised authority to bring correction in anyone else's life. That was why I said that it was God's business and not my business.
Jay Ross

No one has perfect theological understanding, but if you can't tell that it is a serious error to say the muslim god is the same God we worship, then yes it is probably best for you to remain silent.

[GodsStudent]

Patrick: I appreciated your posts and couldn't agree more...the bottom line is....what Brian Houston/Hillside said...it's akin to what the Pope said some time back...and it was an issue for me then, just like it is now. I don't need to restate my position as I stated it already in this thread, but I have NO PROBLEM discerning that what the man said (we all serve the same god) is a lie from the pits of hell and I will NEVER compromise "my God" so that I can have a "god in common" with people from other religions....NEVER. I don't need commonality with other human beings first....I need God first...and God puts people in my life, both saved and unsaved, and I know who they are...more importantly....I know who I am with respect to them.

[LONGINGFORHOME]

Patrick: I appreciated your posts and couldn't agree more...the bottom line is....what Brian Houston/Hillside said...it's akin to what the Pope said some time back...and it was an issue for me then, just like it is now. I don't need to restate my position as I stated it already in this thread, but I have NO PROBLEM discerning that what the man said (we all serve the same god) is a lie from the pits of hell and I will NEVER compromise "my God" so that I can have a "god in common" with people from other religions....NEVER. I don't need commonality with other human beings first....I need God first...and God puts people in my life, both saved and unsaved, and I know who they are...more importantly....I know who I am with respect to them.

We think the same way Sis, what he said was not akin to a shade of gray, it was clear as day and should be pointed out. Too much of the PC culture has invaded the church, I dont like that a bit. When you see error, call it out as error, not to "throw stones" but to make our position clear.
Its not out of malice that you correct a child when he/she goes wrong, but out of love. Similarly when you see a person with great responsibility for teaching others who makes an error that can possibly have eternal consequences for some, then correct that, highlight it, and make the biblical truth rise above the lies and deception!
We are called to be set apart, not blend in, but stand out and let your light shine to a lost and dying world!!

[sacredcowbasher]

<snip>

Jay, it is our responsibility to call out those who preach false doctrine. It ruins Christian's lives. Jesus said, (paraphrase) first remove the beam that is in your own eye, then you will be able to see clearly to remove the spec that is in your brother's eye.
When church leaders either get messed up by money or just get caught up in church growth, they need to be called out.

When they compromise the simple truth of the word of God, they lead people astray. God will judge us one day if we do not say anything at all and let them continue to lead our brothers and sisters astray.

Paul called some 'ministers of Satan' and 'enemies of the cross'.

The ones Jesus was referring to who were doing His will but were not part of the twelve, were not preaching false doctrine. Did Jesus leave the Pharisees alone?

I am not that sure that my theological understanding is perfect in any way that i could speak with the necessary recognised authority to bring correction in anyone else's life. That was why I said that it was God's business and not my business.

Imirish01 makes perfect sense, Bless the man by asking God to Bless Him with His correction should he need it from God's own understanding of what should be done. I would not dare to tell God what to do.

Shalom

Jay Ross

Hi Jay, our theology doesn't have to be perfect in the way that many today think of it. We need definitely to have the basics down. Jesus said the way to life was through the straight and narrow path. It is that our faith is in Jesus and what He did at the cross. There are some other fundamentals but they all start from this point.

Our walk with the Lord is the key to our joy and peace and righteousness.

The Pharisees asked Jesus by what authority He did what He did, and was teaching what He was teaching. He would have answered them, but they, out of fear, did not answer His question.

It is one thing to sound above the fray by judging that Christians should not judge, while at the same time saying that it is ok for church leaders to lead the flock astray.

Please Jay and Imirish01, read Ezekiel 34. This is what God has to say about some church leaders.

[Jay Ross]

Sacredcowbasher

Ezekiel 34 is a great passage but it is not applicable to what you are attempting to say.

If on the other hand you had referred us to Ezekiel 3:16-21 that I would have said was applicable to the point that you were making.

Ez 34 is to do with the end times while Ez 3:16-21 is to do with the present time and is warning for people who are not ministering within their calling with respect to the people around them.

However, it is still God's business to raise people up to be His prophet and challenge people concerning their sin. God has not raised me up to be a prophet to challenge Brian Houston about his sin. I do however warn people of the excesses of Brian Houston and his churches and his take on "Hyper Grace."

Sadly we have seen people who have won TV singing competitions who have been heavily involved in Hillsong and have won the competition because of the influence of Hillsong members who have within a few years of winning walked away from their faith/church theology.

God has given me a different concern to minister in and I must be faithful to God within that ministry calling.

Yes the likes of Brian Houston concerns me but that is God's business to rise up people to minister within that area.

The greatest sin that I see within the church body is the turning away from God and acting "God like." It is so easy to fall into this sin believing that we are doing God's business that we miss the fact that we have fallen into sin. I suspect that many of the BIG CHURCH leaders have fallen into this SIN trap and cannot see the trees for the forest of SIN that they find themselves in.

I go back to the Mark passage that I quoted above in one of my previous posts and suggest that if the Lord leads us to minister into this particular situation, then we should warn the person concerned, however if we are not lead by the Lord to minister in this particular type of situation, then we should follow the prompting of the Lord lest we too turn away from God and begin to act GOD LIKE.

Acting within the calling of God is so much better than acting outside of it within our own strength.

Yes my prayer is that Brian Houston will be included in those who the Lord draws to Himself but at the end of the Day it is solely Brain Houston's responsibility to respond to God in that drawing process.

Have a good day, sacredcowbasher, ya hear me

Jay Ross

PS: - This is a delicate process to become involved in and a 3 x 2 approach may not be the right way to approach Brian Houston or any other Church leader of the same ilk.

[LONGINGFORHOME]

http://hillsongchurchwatch.com/tag/scandal/

[lepter]

There is a difference between a muslim who serves allah and an arab. Islam was a faith that came to be in the hundreds of years after christ. Abrahamic arabs did not worship allah.

[redeemed1953]

1 Corinthians 5--Paul Speaking by the Power of the Holy Spirit--this is the guiding principal, which is basically ignored today.

1 Co 5:1
It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife.

1Co 5:2

You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.

1Co 5:3

For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present.

1Co 5:4

In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus,


1Co 5:5

I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


1Co 5:6

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?


1Co 5:7

Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.


1Co 5:8

Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.


1Co 5:9

I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;

1Co 5:10

I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.

1Co 5:11

But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—[u]not even to eat with such a one.
[/u]
1Co 5:12

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?

1Co 5:13

But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

[redeemed1953]

For your edification

From the Institute for Creation Research....most excellent article.

September 23, 2014
Beware of False Teachers
“Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.” (2 Peter 3:17)

Peter’s final epistle, especially chapters 2 and 3, is the classic New Testament passage on the false teachers that would plague the church in the “last days” (v. 3). In addition to the characteristics listed in the introductory verse, 2:1 (e.g., slipping in surreptitiously heretical teachings, denying the redemptive work and Lordship of Christ), a number of their attributes are predicted for our guidance, as follows:

They will “wrest the scriptures” (3:16), distorting their literal meaning to conform to their own philosophical preferences. This involves using “feigned words” (2:3)—that is, plastic words, with devious meanings to make them say what their users wish to convey. They may well be very eloquent and seductive in their speech, “when they speak great swelling words of vanity” (2:18).

They will deny the doctrine of special creation and the judgment of the worldwide Flood (3:5-6), teaching instead that “all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” (v. 4), and will scoff at the Second Coming. They “despise government” and are “presumptuous” and “self-willed . . . not afraid to speak evil of dignities” (2:10).

They both practice and defend immoral acts, “having eyes full of adultery” (v. 14). Yet they maintain their religious ties because they have hearts “exercised with covetous practices” (v. 14), seeing nothing evil in taking money for personal gain from those whose faith they seek to undermine.

This is, indeed, a fitting description of many modern liberal theologians, religious bureaucrats in the big denominations, “New Age” preachers, college teachers of religion, etc. Although this is not a pleasant subject, Christians urgently need to awaken to what is happening and “beware”! HMM