Is there anyone for a Christian to vote for?

[Sword of Geddon]

A Peacemaker with radical islam? You cannot be that misinformed or naive.

Frankly I am tired of hearing about how great Ron Paul is. I don't see him as great at all. He is a Anti-Semite Isolationist pure and simple. And no, there is nothing at all good or honorable about Ron Paul's views on foreign policy. In case you haven't seen the middle east and been paying attention the last 10-plus years, we have a deadly enemy of extreme evil. They understand only force and making peace with them is the last thing we should be doing. This enemy wants our destruction, the destruction of Christianity, and of Israel. They want a world dominated by an islamic world government. And a failure to understand these facts is not just foolish..it is deadly.

Practically Every person who ran in the primaries was better than Paul. And yes, it is ridiculious how revered Ron Paul is by his supporters. They see only good in the man and think all the others running were demons.

Ron Paul has also gone on record saying he does not believe Homosexuality is a sin. He attacked Bachmann during the primaries, claiming she "hated muslims" due to her correct and very realistic view on the threat of radical islam. He also attacked Santorum, claiming he "hated gays" for representing Christian views on Gay Marriage and Homosexuality in general.

Sorry but Ron Paul is about as Christian as the emergent church. I remember four years ago how Ron Paul said 9-11 was America's fault, and how he was rightly put in his place. It sickens me how there is even consideration of Ron Paul by people here.

I will vote for Mitt Romney knowing he is a mormon..and feel completely fine in doing so. He is more conservative than Ron Paul, has realistic foreign policy views, and knows how to fix bad economies, I'd know, he was my governor. And because we have a horrible President who is destroying everything good about America and needs to go...I know we need a new President, and btw Mitt Romney is THE ONLY ONE with a chance at beating him in the general election.

This is the only chance to repeal Obamacare, the only chance to rid us of this horrible man.

You guys keep saying "the lesser of two evils is still evil". Well guess what? The choice ISN"T between the greater and lesser evils, its between good and evil. It was never between the lesser of two evils.

Who cares that he is a mormon. No candidate is perfect. You guys liked Glenn Beck right?

[Sword of Geddon]

And the constitution is anything but a judeo-Christian document. That is a common misconception. There is nothing holy or sacred about our founding documents. They are the law, nothing more.

[Exit40]

And the constitution is anything but a judeo-Christian document. That is a common misconception. There is nothing holy or sacred about our founding documents. They are the law, nothing more.

Except for the part where it states all men are equal and our rights and liberties are granted by God, not man, therefore the basis for limited govt powers in mens' lives, the following documents backing up the previous lead in. No easy road for sure, but the experiment with this is far from over.

God Bless You

David

[denise]

And the constitution is anything but a judeo-Christian document. That is a common misconception. There is nothing holy or sacred about our founding documents. They are the law, nothing more.

Except for the part where it states all men are equal and our rights and liberties are granted by God, not man, therefore the basis for limited govt powers in mens' lives, the following documents backing up the previous lead in. No easy road for sure, but the experiment with this is far from over.

God Bless You

David

[Sword of Geddon]

The problem with that is it stands against the reason God established governments over men to begin with.

To quote Thomas Hobbes:

Man in inherently evil and it is only by the rule of a powerful king that keeps man's baser nature in check.

Earlier there was a discussion of Romans 13.

Government exists to enforce law, and order to a sin-hearted people. There are only two ways to do this. Faith or force. If a people have faith they don't need laws, because law is written on their hearts.

The United States as a society can only exist if the people have one Christian faith. The less this is the case the more laws are put in place.

I'm not disagreeing entirely with you, but I am saying that any rights from god only apply to those who have him as their king.

[brett]

I just want to say that I am personally grateful that we have Romney running for election. I think many of us have fallen into a trap, that being the holding of this attitude that none of our leaders are any good. What an UNGRATEFUL attitude. I do not encourage people saying this election is a choice between the lesser of 2 evils. I see this in my own country too (Australia), I believe this is a WRONG attitude that has crept into society the last few years, the media seems to be pushing this. As though we the public deserve so much better, I believe we are getting what we currently deserve, considering the moral state of the nations. Avoid the temptation to complain, like ungrateful children saying our parents are not good enough and blaming all our problems on our parents. Be grateful that things are not worse, especially at this time in history. We are lucky that Romney is running, while His beliefs may be questionable, He is a very disciplined and capable man, who has his own affairs in order. I see Romney as a very hard working and capable man who will support Israel and will help your nation. Personally considering we are in the Last Days I would be thanking God for this amount of blessing at this stage. Romney is far better than Obama, make sure he gets in, please vote for Romney, it will have wide reaching consequences globally.

[Abiding in His Word]

Well I heard him say that Jesus Christ was his savior in an interview. And the opening prayer this evening was by a member of the Mormon faith and he prayed in the KJ language.

[denise]

I see Romney as a very hard working and capable man who will support Israel and will help your nation. Personally considering we are in the Last Days I would be thanking God for this amount of blessing at this stage. Romney is far better than Obama, make sure he gets in, please vote for Romney, it will have wide reaching consequences globally.

I agree he's a very hard working and capable man, DEFINATELY better than the current occupant of 1600 Pensylvania Avenue...

Well I heard him say that Jesus Christ was his savior in an interview. And the opening prayer this evening was by a member of the Mormon faith and he prayed in the KJ language.

Yeah, but which Jesus Christ? The Jesus that's the spirit brother of Lucifer? The Jesus whose spilt blood isn't COMPLETELY suficient for forgiviness of sins? Sorry, but I don't buy it. I'm going to vote for Romney, but I don't have drink the cult cool-aide and buy into the Ecumenism that the GOP is pushing.



Love in Christ.

[Abiding in His Word]

Yeah, but which Jesus Christ? The Jesus that's the spirit brother of Lucifer? The Jesus whose spilt blood isn't COMPLETELY suficient for forgiviness of sins?

Well, I can't speak for Romney naturally, but you only have to read some discussions on this board to know that not even all Evangelicals believe the same theology. And there are plenty of believers who aren't certain that Jesus blood was sufficient for the forgiveness of sins; they must work out their own salvation and repent a million times for "complete" forgiveness.

Just sayin'....

[Abiding in His Word]

And I remember the same fear expressed when John F. Kennedy ran for president. Regardless of how you felt about his term as president, he didn't try to convince us to pray to the "Blessed Mother", to pray for the poor souls in purgatory, or to recognize the Pope as the representative of God on earth.

[denise]

And I remember the same fear expressed when John F. Kennedy ran for president. Regardless of how you felt about his term as president, he didn't try to convince us to pray to the "Blessed Mother", to pray for the poor souls in purgatory, or to recognize the Pope as the representative of God on earth.

That's true, and Mitt Romney could turn out to be a GREAT President as well, and more power to him. If he can help turn the economy around and bring back some self confidence to this trouble nation, I'll be a thankful citizen.

Yeah, but which Jesus Christ? The Jesus that's the spirit brother of Lucifer? The Jesus whose spilt blood isn't COMPLETELY suficient for forgiviness of sins?

Well, I can't speak for Romney naturally, but you only have to read some discussions on this board to know that not even all Evangelicals believe the same theology. And there are plenty of believers who aren't certain that Jesus blood was sufficient for the forgiveness of sins; they must work out their own salvation and repent a million times for "complete" forgiveness.

Just sayin'....

That's true, and I feel bad for those who don't take solice in the complete forgiveness and grace that's found in the blood of the Lamb of God. But I look in my grandparents books that I inherited, who were devout Born Again Christians, and I read that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints is a CULT and I see their religion as foriegn to me as Islam; but just more "Westernized". Islam and Mormans both sprung out as cults from Christianity, both saying that traditional Christianity was incorrect-incomplete and heresy. He could be the most passive devotee' to his religion as far as proselytizing now that he may become the Comander in Chief, but none the less, he's still a member of a CULT. And like a barking dog, you keep him a watchful eye on him...

[Abiding in His Word]

Let's see what he has to say this evening. And let's focus on the responsibilities of the office, and hope he will fulfill them better than the current president.

[denise]

Let's see what he has to say this evening. And let's focus on the responsibilities of the office, and hope he will fulfill them better than the current president.

And that I 100% agree with you on.

[Abiding in His Word]

By the way, Denise, your guy is coming up pretty soon....Clint Eastwood. Hope you're watching!

[jgilberAZ]

And there are plenty of believers who aren't certain that Jesus blood was sufficient for the forgiveness of sins; they must work out their own salvation and repent a million times for "complete" forgiveness.

Then they are heretics, not believers.

[denise]

By the way, Denise, your guy is coming up pretty soon....Clint Eastwood. Hope you're watching!

Oh yeah!

[GodsStudent]

As I watched Romney's speech last night, I decided that I will vote for him, as he stands opposed to Obama's way of doing things, and so do I. At the same time, I mentioned to my husband that I felt the need to have eyes wide open on this one. While I will vote for him, I do not have that frenzied love that so many seem to bestow upon their president. This comes from many years of disappointments by the people who have held the office, and disgraced the honor and respect of the job title. Its a disgrace that the Clintons cleaned the White House out when they left, that men and women of questionable status have been pardoned by Presidents as they exit the post ( I can't imagine what liberties Obama is going to take with his, should he be voted out of office), and that so little has been done by them to protect and serve the constitution and the body of people that elected them. Forgive me, but I am not ungrateful, I am disillusioned. I used to have the highest esteem for the man who holds that title, but in the past so many years, I have found them to be disgraceful.

That being said, I do appreciate Mitt Romney's perspective and much of what he said did resonate with me. That he is Mormon complicates it for me, too, Denise. In this day and time, discernment of what is going on around us is crucial, and I don't see any reason, with either candidate, to feel like I can let my guard down.

On the other hand, if Obama wins the election again (or if we don't have one), our country is going to be finished off....of that, we can all be sure.

[daffodyllady]

Jesus said that by their fruits we shall know them.

What I heard last night from other people, telling how Mitt Romney impacted their lives, giving his time and gentle care to those who were in need...

I feel I am unqualified to pass negative judgment on this man.
All we can see are actions. Only God can see the heart.

I have heard Evangelicals who claim "nothing but the blood!" turn around and kill their brother with their tongues.

I have been one of the poor in quite a few churches, in days past, hoping for a little help from the churches we attended... but so very few had time or help for poor people. Mostly, as a poor family, we were ignored, except for being encouraged to put more into the offering plate. The message was that if you give, you will receive. They didn't help us, but they sure told us how we weren't giving enough, and that was the root of our financial problems!

I have known many churches. I have known many pastors...
And what I heard last night convinces me that even though Romney might not have all the doctrines of the Bible correct, at least he got the one James talks about: Pure religion and undefiled before God the Father.

He seems to be truly humble, and to love his fellowman.

And that's more than I can say for many Evangelicals who love to debate Bible doctrine.

[Abiding in His Word]

And what I heard last night convinces me that even though Romney might not have all the doctrines of the Bible correct, at least he got the one James talks about: Pure religion and undefiled before God the Father.

He seems to be truly humble, and to love his fellowman.

Indeed that side of him came through loud and clear.

[denise]

And what I heard last night convinces me that even though Romney might not have all the doctrines of the Bible correct, at least he got the one James talks about: Pure religion and undefiled before God the Father.

He seems to be truly humble, and to love his fellowman.

Indeed that side of him came through loud and clear.

That we can agree on.

[Sword of Geddon]

Yeah, but which Jesus Christ? The Jesus that's the spirit brother of Lucifer? The Jesus whose spilt blood isn't COMPLETELY suficient for forgiviness of sins?

Well, I can't speak for Romney naturally, but you only have to read some discussions on this board to know that not even all Evangelicals believe the same theology. And there are plenty of believers who aren't certain that Jesus blood was sufficient for the forgiveness of sins; they must work out their own salvation and repent a million times for "complete" forgiveness.

Just sayin'....

There is only one true gospel. There is only one word of God.

Not all who call themselves believers are in fact believers. Anyone who claims to be a believer yet does not take the very word of God at face value is anything but a true believer.

Fact of the matter is the Mormons are not true believers, just as many Catholics are not true believers.

I mean my gosh if this election is pushing ecumenism, than I've been blind this entire time. Doctrine does matter. Are we universalists now? Where all roads lead to heaven? Are we liberals now where we say that if you make a value judgement your intolerant?

I know what the truth is, and not all doctrines are valid. How far have people here fallen if the pure and simple truth is now perverted into an anything goes attitude?

I think maybe not voting at all is perhaps the correct Christian response to having a mormon up against a marxist after all.....

I mean come to think of it do not both candidates represent another flavor of rebellion against God himself? The Government is God flavor of Obama, and the Man can become God(which sounds right out of the garden of eden come to think of it) flavor of Romney.

[Sword of Geddon]

And I remember the same fear expressed when John F. Kennedy ran for president. Regardless of how you felt about his term as president, he didn't try to convince us to pray to the "Blessed Mother", to pray for the poor souls in purgatory, or to recognize the Pope as the representative of God on earth.

Americans invited and condoned idolatry by inviting a catholic into the White House. Not because all catholics are bad, but because allowing someone into the highest office in the land with the idolatry many catholics believe in is to invite the beliefs and practices into the nation.

If you watched the RNC there was alot of ecumenism. Any true Christian, having realized that would have run far from such an event.

[Sword of Geddon]

Jesus said that by their fruits we shall know them.

What I heard last night from other people, telling how Mitt Romney impacted their lives, giving his time and gentle care to those who were in need...

I feel I am unqualified to pass negative judgment on this man.
All we can see are actions. Only God can see the heart.

I have heard Evangelicals who claim "nothing but the blood!" turn around and kill their brother with their tongues.

I have been one of the poor in quite a few churches, in days past, hoping for a little help from the churches we attended... but so very few had time or help for poor people. Mostly, as a poor family, we were ignored, except for being encouraged to put more into the offering plate. The message was that if you give, you will receive. They didn't help us, but they sure told us how we weren't giving enough, and that was the root of our financial problems!

I have known many churches. I have known many pastors...
And what I heard last night convinces me that even though Romney might not have all the doctrines of the Bible correct, at least he got the one James talks about: Pure religion and undefiled before God the Father.

He seems to be truly humble, and to love his fellowman.

And that's more than I can say for many Evangelicals who love to debate Bible doctrine.

But at the end of the day all he does is nothing, because works do not save you. You watched the convention and allowed your emotions to be effected, so that your discernment was not there to remind you this man is a mormon, one who believes if he does enough good deeds he can ascend and become a god.

My eyes have been opened. You vote for Obama..you vote for satan..you vote for Romney, you vote for satan. Best thing to do is stay home, not vote, and not waste your time taking part in this satanic political system.

Look at this: http://askmormongirl.wordpress.com/2012 ... come-gods/

[Sword of Geddon]

Should you vote for a Mormon?

A Christian cannot vote for a Mormon, whose Jesus is the brother of Satan.

"Can a Christian vote for a Mormon if the Mormon will protect Christian values?"

Mitt Romney will not protect Christian values. But even if he were to somehow protect them, a true Christian can never vote for a Mormon. Why not?

Would you vote for Satan if he promised to overturn Roe v Wade, constitutionally ban gay marriage, create millions of jobs and lower the unemployment rate to 4%, balance the federal budget, and pay off the national debt? If Satan offered, "All this I will give you," [Satan] said, "if you will bow down and worship me." (Matthew 4:9) - will you bow to him? If not, neither can you support a member of his (Satan's) cult that calls Jesus, our perfectly Holy Creator, the brother of Satan, the perfectly evil creature.

Read More: http://www.godvoter.org/can-christian-vote-mormon.html

[daffodyllady]

So, does a vote for a Mormon for President of the US, mean we think he is perfect, and is fit to lead the nation back to God?

NO.

All a vote is, is a statement that we think this person is the better of two imperfect political choices.

My goodness, don't throw away a chance to get a communist out of the white house, just because you think his opponent is not a real Christian!

A political election is not about Christianity. It's about political ideology.

Can you imagine, if Communism completely took over this nation, and your family would be on a train to a death camp for being Christians.
You would think back to your refusal to allow anyone to take Obama's place, unless that person was fit to be a pastor.
I cannot imagine seeing my children undergoing persecution, knowing I could have done SOMETHING to forestall communism!

[Sword of Geddon]

I'm not voting because it is a waste of time. You have two versions of evil as choices, one that is based on mammon and religious ecumenism, and the other based on socialism. Did you not see the RNC convention? Sorry but I will not surrender biblical principles and embrace this universalism simply to defeat Obama, who is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Christians really need to stop loving America. Edit: Well, loving America so much as to place it on a pedestal and have it effect their views.

[jgilberAZ]

Since when should Christians separate politics and religion? Our faith should be first and foremost in every area of our lives, including who we vote for.

Government is an institution of God.

Romans 13
1 Peter 2

Do you really think it pleases the Lord when you state "I want a heretic to rule over me?"

You have other options.

[Sword of Geddon]

Since when should Christians separate politics and religion? Our faith should be first and foremost in every area of our lives, including who we vote for.

Government is an institution of God.

Romans 13
1 Peter 2

Do you really think it pleases the Lord when you state "I want a heretic to rule over me?"

You have other options.

Your right. I owe you an apology for deriding you for your support of the Constitution Party.

I was going with Romney because of the "Anyone is better than Obama" cliche. I put my misgivings of him aside, but I can't keep lying to myself that my conscience is clear about this any longer..I just can't.

[Exit40]

One of our rights is not just freedom to worship. It is freedom to worship as we choose, and not be forced to worship in a govt' mandated religion, nor any ideology that forces us to abandon our freedom to choose to worship as we please, or not to worship at all., free from social pressures and persecutions. So, and to repeat Daffy I think you nail it every time you post, from a Christian standpoint we are not looking to place our vote for anyone but Christ firstly, secondly no one is perfect in this regard, no, not one, so what we are talking about here is which candidate's ideology is most likely to be honorable to our God given right to worship as we please as recognized and written in our founding documents. We are not talking theology nor priesthood of the White house here, but political ideologies and who can best represent us as we would like to see our secular govt' run, and who has the best chance to see it through to our way of thinking. The problem isn't and never has been who is the most Christian. It is and always has been how many more people believe in the one ideology over the other. That is our winner and President for the next four years, revolution or impeachment aside. We are a Constitutional Republic, and accordingly a Representative Democracy. You can't expect any good thing to happen if you don't vote for higher principles as good and just peoples, and by doing nothing evil will prevail. Your vote and your voice counts, the Lord knows you heart, so give unto Caesar that which is his, just pick the best Caesar as you are able.

Ease up folks, we should have been working on this a long time ago, meaning the Church, and for over a century, but have allowed the unChurched and apostates to become the majority. I am not so sure about that either, as most want a properly run govt. The entitlements have to be paid for by someone, and we simply can't keep borrowing . Anyone who has kids has begun to see this, some have seen it all along.

Church and State separation means no mandated govt' religion or ideology that forces us away from our freedom to worship as we choose, and that means all of us or it means nothing to any of us.

And Father have Mercy on us, for Thy Namesake alone, for we deserve only what You choose to give us in accordance with Your Will for us at this time. In Christ's Name....

God Bless

David

Initially I liked Herman Cain, and wanted the bumper sticker that said ' My guy is blacker than your guy ', with the hope of eliminating the race card, as an after fact.

[daffodyllady]

Initially I liked Herman Cain, and wanted the bumper sticker that said ' My guy is blacker than your guy ', with the hope of eliminating the race card, as an after fact.

[Jericho]

Initially I liked Herman Cain, and wanted the bumper sticker that said ' My guy is blacker than your guy '

I always thought "Yes we Cain" would have been a perfect slogan. Ah well...

[Sword of Geddon]

One of our rights is not just freedom to worship. It is freedom to worship as we choose, and not be forced to worship in a govt' mandated religion, nor any ideology that forces us to abandon our freedom to choose to worship as we please, or not to worship at all., free from social pressures and persecutions. So, and to repeat Daffy I think you nail it every time you post, from a Christian standpoint we are not looking to place our vote for anyone but Christ firstly, secondly no one is perfect in this regard, no, not one, so what we are talking about here is which candidate's ideology is most likely to be honorable to our God given right to worship as we please as recognized and written in our founding documents. We are not talking theology nor priesthood of the White house here, but political ideologies and who can best represent us as we would like to see our secular govt' run, and who has the best chance to see it through to our way of thinking. The problem isn't and never has been who is the most Christian. It is and always has been how many more people believe in the one ideology over the other. That is our winner and President for the next four years, revolution or impeachment aside. We are a Constitutional Republic, and accordingly a Representative Democracy. You can't expect any good thing to happen if you don't vote for higher principles as good and just peoples, and by doing nothing evil will prevail. Your vote and your voice counts, the Lord knows you heart, so give unto Caesar that which is his, just pick the best Caesar as you are able.

Ease up folks, we should have been working on this a long time ago, meaning the Church, and for over a century, but have allowed the unChurched and apostates to become the majority. I am not so sure about that either, as most want a properly run govt. The entitlements have to be paid for by someone, and we simply can't keep borrowing . Anyone who has kids has begun to see this, some have seen it all along.

Church and State separation means no mandated govt' religion or ideology that forces us away from our freedom to worship as we choose, and that means all of us or it means nothing to any of us.

And Father have Mercy on us, for Thy Namesake alone, for we deserve only what You choose to give us in accordance with Your Will for us at this time. In Christ's Name....

God Bless

David

Initially I liked Herman Cain, and wanted the bumper sticker that said ' My guy is blacker than your guy ', with the hope of eliminating the race card, as an after fact.

Therein lies the spritual adultery of the so called Christian America. On the one hand America claims to be a judeo-Christian country founded on those principles, but on the other America allows false religions, including mormonism, to be practiced.

If America was truly Christian it would not allow anything BUT Christianity to be practiced.

America is indeed one of the most wicked places on Earth, for more reasons than one. I refuse to take part in an evil governmental system. The only form of Government outside his direct rule that is legit is monarchy. If you vote for Romney your endorsing a heretic and a cult, and Obama I should not have to speak of.

Do the right thing..Don't vote.

[GodsStudent]

One of our rights is not just freedom to worship. It is freedom to worship as we choose, and not be forced to worship in a govt' mandated religion, nor any ideology that forces us to abandon our freedom to choose to worship as we please, or not to worship at all., free from social pressures and persecutions. So, and to repeat Daffy I think you nail it every time you post, from a Christian standpoint we are not looking to place our vote for anyone but Christ firstly, secondly no one is perfect in this regard, no, not one, so what we are talking about here is which candidate's ideology is most likely to be honorable to our God given right to worship as we please as recognized and written in our founding documents. We are not talking theology nor priesthood of the White house here, but political ideologies and who can best represent us as we would like to see our secular govt' run, and who has the best chance to see it through to our way of thinking. The problem isn't and never has been who is the most Christian. It is and always has been how many more people believe in the one ideology over the other. That is our winner and President for the next four years, revolution or impeachment aside. We are a Constitutional Republic, and accordingly a Representative Democracy. You can't expect any good thing to happen if you don't vote for higher principles as good and just peoples, and by doing nothing evil will prevail. Your vote and your voice counts, the Lord knows you heart, so give unto Caesar that which is his, just pick the best Caesar as you are able.

Ease up folks, we should have been working on this a long time ago, meaning the Church, and for over a century, but have allowed the unChurched and apostates to become the majority. I am not so sure about that either, as most want a properly run govt. The entitlements have to be paid for by someone, and we simply can't keep borrowing . Anyone who has kids has begun to see this, some have seen it all along.

Church and State separation means no mandated govt' religion or ideology that forces us away from our freedom to worship as we choose, and that means all of us or it means nothing to any of us.

And Father have Mercy on us, for Thy Namesake alone, for we deserve only what You choose to give us in accordance with Your Will for us at this time. In Christ's Name....

God Bless

David

Initially I liked Herman Cain, and wanted the bumper sticker that said ' My guy is blacker than your guy ', with the hope of eliminating the race card, as an after fact.

Therein lies the spritual adultery of the so called Christian America. On the one hand America claims to be a judeo-Christian country founded on those principles, but on the other America allows false religions, including mormonism, to be practiced.

If America was truly Christian it would not allow anything BUT Christianity to be practiced.

America is indeed one of the most wicked places on Earth, for more reasons than one. I refuse to take part in an evil governmental system. The only form of Government outside his direct rule that is legit is monarchy. If you vote for Romney your endorsing a heretic and a cult, and Obama I should not have to speak of.

Do the right thing..Don't vote.

That's just it, Sword. Not voting is also not doing the right thing, in so many people's views, including my own. Then, you say "If America was truly Christian.....".....God knew we would be here, God knew MAN would get to this place. I am so tired of hearing how awful America is....look around and tell me which countries have these Godly men that American doesn't. It's not a national problem....its a MANKIND problem, and the answer is Jesus, but no man knows the day or the hour, and we are admonished in scripture to occupy until Christ returns, and we have to do the best we can.

To be completely honest, I imagined with my husband the night we watched Mitt Romney's speech, the many ways deception could play itself out with him, a mormon, as president. Even so, for those who are with the Lord, the elect, there will be discernment, just as there is now. I am not speaking of the laodicean crowd, they only want to see us prosper and "get back to business as usual," but for those watching for the return of Christ, we will see and we will understand, and AS USUAL, we will have opportunities to witness in the time we live in. These things are constant.

I truly appreciate Daffodyllady's comments and Exit40's comments in the above posts. ....and yes, while I know that in neither case will I be voting for a Christian, I am not confused that a true Christian has no chance of winning right now, ....ImIrish, I was a Santorum supporter and heartbroken when I saw my country reject him and his principles....

Now, I see two choices before me. The man who will put the demise of America on the fast track, and the man who says he will try to slow the trends I see now, many of which I am in complete opposition to. To be clear, Im not voting for Romney because of his religious viewpoints, Im voting for him because I do not know how long it will be until the end time scenerio plays itself completely out, and I do have the security of my family to consider, and I know what I am getting with Obama. I still want a president who isn't going to encourage welfare, translated into Communism....and I will still vote to put a communist thinker out of the White House.

The one world government and all leaders turning their power over to the anti christ will come soon enough, actually too soon for anyone, but if that day doesn't come for another 20 years, and the full terms of these presidents run their courses (4 for Obama and 8 for Romney, if reelected), the way this country looks during those 20 years could be drastically impacted by which political ideology is at the helm.

[Exit40]

Hi Sword. I understand your sense of frustration, your points being valid but only to a point. Our founding Documents made no mention of Jesus to my recollection, feel free to hammer me on this one, but recognized our rights a humans are given by God not man, our culture being Judeo/Christian. When Christ spoke of other religions, and man made doctrines, yes He hammered away at specific people, and spoke of idolatry, no where did he say take over the govt and make it Christian. His teachings were if you follow me you will do this and this, for simplification, commandments he wants obeyed willingly, and if we do these things the govt' will become self correcting because we are now a people who love Christ and obey Him, His method based on the Law and Prophets, and fully following the will of God. WE too know the Will of God, having it written for us, that being follow Christ. In the process we are to give to Caesar what is his, our method being responsible to our peoples to pick and vote for the best candidate for a temporary office. To say do the right thing, don't vote, what you might be doing is OK for you, but please allow others to make up their own minds on this who may feel their vote is for a secular candidate to work to try improve our national conditions. There is no perfect candidate available, our leaders are not our flesh and blood enemies, nor evil, however we know them by their works. JFK, upon visiting the Pope, did not kiss his ring, as symbol of obedience to the churches highest authority, and proving he put his responsibility to this nation ahead of allegiance and obedience to a man. You could almost hear the national sigh of relief.

Anyway, this is not nearly as bent an issue as you are making it for most of us. Not to denigrate your viewpoint, as I said you have some valid points, but for at least some it is not about religion, but a separating of Faith from politics and common national issues. They both lay some sort of claim to Jesus being their personal savior, which one do you believe ?
After that decision we start the discourse of our national issues, policies, experience, and character, the fruit of their works.

God Bless You

David

[Sword of Geddon]

Neither of them are Christian for obvious reasons. And you cannot separate faith from anything. That is much like only being godly on sundays. There is no such separation.

Did you know that Washington DC is designed in such a way that the streets form a pentagram? Why are so many buildings in DC built and decorated with pagan gods, such as the Supreme Court building? As I've said if this country was truly founded on Christian values or Christianity itself than it would resemble the settlement of the Puritans, not ancient rome. A truly Christian country would not allow idolatry and polytheism(freedom of religion).

Yes, to not vote would be the Christian response. Not just because both candidates are representatives of an anti-christ belief system, but because the very system, the heart of America, is built on wickedness and to honor the prince of darkness himself.

American values are not Christian values. The concept of freedom as understood by Americans is not the biblical view.

Sorry If im coming on strong. I feel deception surrounding this entire affair.

[daffodyllady]

Well, as I see it. The Word tells us how to view politicians and government.

1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

And to ask for something, but refuse to do what I could to help it to happen, would be like praying "give us this day our daily bread" and then sitting and watching the sky for bread to fall.

[Sword of Geddon]

There is nothing godly about the American political system(or any derived from it), far from it, it is by its very nature a deist system and a construct of 18th century freemasonry.

Just as the Bible warns to "Come out of her my people lest you share in her adulteries" regarding Mystery Babylon, I now believe not taking part in the political system of America is the best possible coarse of action.

Instead of voting, read your Bible, spend time with other believers. Praying is what will save this nation...not speeches or majority votes. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

[weepingwillow]

There is nothing godly about the American political system(or any derived from it), far from it, it is by its very nature a deist system and a construct of 18th century freemasonry.

Just as the Bible warns to "Come out of her my people lest you share in her adulteries" regarding Mystery Babylon, I now believe not taking part in the political system of America is the best possible coarse of action.

Instead of voting, read your Bible, spend time with other believers. Praying is what will save this nation...not speeches or majority votes. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

I do. *goes back into her observation corner*

[AndCanItBe]

Well, as I see it. The Word tells us how to view politicians and government.

1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

And to ask for something, but refuse to do what I could to help it to happen, would be like praying "give us this day our daily bread" and then sitting and watching the sky for bread to fall.

Exactly. Well said.

[brett]

Sword of Geddon I have a few things to say to you.

Yes you are right, neither political candidates are followers of Jesus and neither men will be serving God properly, with all their hearts. But the reality is that one of these men will be influencing your life over the next 4 years. One of these men will be changing your life in some way. I do not put any real faith in the American political system, its all corrupt and full of hypocrisy and is mans system of government, not Gods, but nevertheless, it will be influencing each of our lives, because mans system of government will not be replaced until Jesus returns. Do you want to reside in a place that has more troubles to deal with? Greater hardships? More chaos?

If you worked in a company and had the choice between 2 men who were to be your boss would you just ignore the matter and let others chose who will be your boss? Considering that you will be strongly influenced by this man and have to work under him? Wouldn't it be wiser to take the opportunity to chose the boss that would be better for your life.

Also why are you holding up such high christian standards to American presidents? Look at the errors in doctrine of even the Apostles, Paul had to correct Peter's hypocrisy regarding the jews, Peter was avoiding socializing with the gentile believers because of his fear of what the jewish believers would think. Paul had to correct Peter and make it a public matter (raise this issue in front of everyone). So if even the Apostles are capable of making such errors, how can you hold up such a high standard towards unbelievers, i.e. the 2 presidential candidates, as though you would expect them to be upholding such high christian standards? I would never expect any president to really uphold christian principles 100%. US presidents are not Apostles, they are kings, like those in the old testament, who ruled over Israel for centuries.

In fact look at the scriptures concerning Israel and its rebuilding of the walls by Nehemiah with the permission and help of Artaxerxes, king of Persia, was that King a believer? No but nevertheless he served Gods purpose, the walls were built, and all this despite this King having wrong beliefs.

Rather than not voting, you should instead pray and ask God who to vote for. You are in effect determining what King will rule over your nation. Israel was subject to King rules for many centuries and the choice was not given to the people, instead it was a birthright and many of those Kings were bad, influencing Israel in a bad way, and Israel suffered as a result. But some were good and some pulled down the idols and set Israel on the right path. Who rules over your nation matters, it will either help or hinder your life in some way. Having the opportunity to vote is not expressing worship of mans system of government, it is rather deciding which man is better for Gods will in your nation. Which King would rule better, which King would lead in the better direction, which King would ultimately serve Gods purpose better.

Having a good president would be a blessing and you should be grateful for any such blessing. Remember it is possible for an unbeliever to serve a believer out of the goodness of his heart.

Please vote for Mitt Romney

[Abiding in His Word]

Beautifully said, brett! Thank you for providing that perspective.

[Sword of Geddon]

I understand what your saying...but think of it this way. God knows all possible outcomes. This election was already decided by him before time even began. Knowing this...why vote?

I've been thinking alot about predestination lately, and its been making me question many of my long-held beliefs. How would one answer this question? Is everything destiny? Or are our decisions our own completely. I believe, and want to believe the later, that God may know all, but is not restricted by his own knowledge of possible futures.

Is Romney ok to vote for? I don't want to unintentionally do something wrong when voting. That is why I've said what I've said...

[AndCanItBe]

I understand what your saying...but think of it this way. God knows all possible outcomes. This election was already decided by him before time even began. Knowing this...why vote?

I've been thinking alot about predestination lately, and its been making me question many of my long-held beliefs. How would one answer this question? Is everything destiny? Or are our decisions our own completely. I believe, and want to believe the later, that God may know all, but is not restricted by his own knowledge of possible futures.

Is Romney ok to vote for? I don't want to unintentionally do something wrong when voting. That is why I've said what I've said...

I believe in predestination to the point that I think it was already decided what I would be eating today. He says He prepared good works for us to do in advance. IMO, God intends predestination to be a comfort and a motivation to His people, never an excuse to throw up your hands and go "Why bother?" You bother because God's predetermined plan was to change and influence the world through us, His servants. He intended to work His will by our obedience. He intended for us to use our own effort, relying on His strength and guidance, never forgetting our efforts are useless without Him.

We are completely free from the outcome of our obedience to Him. That is not our responsibility or our burden, it's all His. That is how predestination is supposed to motivate us and comfort us. I can't mess God up when I fail and my obedience matters to God no matter what the outcome is. My obedience is not a mistake even if conventional wisdom or hindsight says the bad guy won because of it. It just means God allowed the bad guy to win. He could be disciplining us through it or causing a revival through it. Likewise, I cannot boast if my obedience helped the good guy win because it was God's to determine, not mine.

I can see how not voting could come from a place of faith and conviction from God, but it is not conviction or a place of faith that says "Why bother? I can't change His plan so I'll just sit back and do nothing." It is complacency and/or indecision and the equivalent of burying your money in the sand, like the parable. I'm not saying that's where you are, but to just be careful of it.

[daffodyllady]

God has not given us the spirit of fear, or of confusion.
So don't let fear or confusion form reactive choices.
Rather, be a person of action, based on faith and the Love of God.

[Sword of Geddon]

Thankyou both of you..

Sorry if I've been a pain...I guess I just unload easily online...probably not a good thing.

[GodsStudent]

Thankyou both of you..

Sorry if I've been a pain...I guess I just unload easily online...probably not a good thing.

You're not alone in "unloading easily online." Fact is, if we never open it up for discussion anywhere, we will never get feedback and grow....and, truth is, all the conflicted things you're feeling are being felt by others, me for one. I vascilate like crazy, but have sort of landed in a better place with this particular issue. That said, I am officially on this forum as saying I was not going to vote, I was considering voting for Ron Paul, I did not want to vote for Romney and finally I am going to vote for Romney.

I hope you guys don't hold me to my decisions, because I have been known to change my mind.

[Sword of Geddon]

You and me both Godstudent.