Depression vs. Grieving

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Depression vs. Grieving

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:05 am

I visited a home church last Sunday and I was disgusted by the false teachings and Pentecostalism. Truthfully, it was demonic, a cult. Anyway, I stood up against several of the miserable people who claimed they are grieving. I was telling them why they were depressed and not grieving. They were telling me that grieving and depressing is the same thing, so I said, "Do we depress the Holy Spirit?", I don't think so....they go on making excuses....here's the thing, grieving is not a sin. I believe if you are angry, cursing, selfish, etc...you are not grieving. How could you sin and grieve the Holy Spirit at the same time? The people who claim to be Christians are so messed up and they indulge the unclean spirit speaking in pagan languages, scared my children! They tell me depression is not in the Bible, therefore, they are grieving. They are manipulating scriptures to justify their depression as an excuse. I believe they like being miserable and don't want to change to the whole Truth. Jesus says we should have a sound mind. At the home church, this woman says she has been grieving for 6 years because a Pastor divorced her and everything is going bad for her, so I encourage and share the Truth with her, she refused to get out of the false teachings because people are nice, how else is God going to heal if you refuse to obey or repent? I believe she is not grieving....

Jesus grieved, he was not "depressed" ....

I thought this would be a good discussion on this subject...:)
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby daffodyllady on Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:03 am

This sounds like a very old-fashioned pentecostal church. I have known quite a few of those very closely. They tend to try to intensify all the emotions they feel, because they confuse emotion with the spirit.

In fact, the lady I currently care for, who is bedridden, heart-failure, arthritis, dementia, etc, etc, is also an old-time pentecostal. She has the worst problem with the spirit of fear that I have ever seen! She will get into praying spells, where she thinks the way she is praying is of great faith, yet it is fear-based; pleading and wailing, til she is beside herself with anxiety! She's liable to kill herself doing that one day.

Yet, I am a Pentecostal. I have been baptized in the Spirit, and speak in tongues and prophesy. I just do not think some of the things the old-timey Pentecostals hold to, are true. Some of their ways of doing things, and some of their doctrines, are simply not scriptural. Especially the idea of working up emotion. That is not of God.
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Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, and touch not the unclean thing, and I will recieve you... Abstain from all appearance of evil...Without holiness shall no man see the Lord.
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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:50 am

Amen Daffy, :)
It is not healthy to be around those people..:)

Dafffy, what do you mean by being a pentecostal?



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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:11 am

Was Jesus or the disciples a pentecostal?
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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby daffodyllady on Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:20 pm

What do I believe about Pentecostalism? I believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit does not automatically happen at conversion. Rather, it happens as it did in the book of Acts, and that tongues and/or prophecy will occur when the Spirit falls upon someone. I do believe that all Christians have, and are led by, the Spirit of God. But I do not believe that all Christians are automatically filled with the Spirit. Therefore, there is a command to be filled.

I do NOT believe we can check our brains at the door, though, when we go to church. God DOES require the prophets to control their urge to speak out. And He has given directions as to when and how to speak in tongues; therefore whenever you feel like doing it, does not mean God wants you to do it right then.

Spirit is not emotion. It will produce emotion when the spirit of a human is touched by the Spirit of God. And the more intense the encounter, the more intense the emotion. But the deception lies in trying to work up emotion in order to fit in with what is accepted as evidence of being a "spiritual christian." That's letting the flesh drive.

Asking if Jesus or the disciples were Pentecostals, is like asking if the prophet Samuel was a born-again Christian. Samuel did not live under the New Covenant. New Covenant principles did not apply to him. Even so, during the time of Christ's earthly ministry, Pentecost had not yet come. When the day of Pentecost came, Christ's disciples became filled with the Spirit, speaking in tongues and prophesying.
Today, someone who does that, is called a Pentecostal. So, yes, they turned Pentecostal.
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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:39 pm

Christ's disciples became filled with the Spirit, speaking in tongues and prophesying.
Today, someone who does that, is called a Pentecostal. So, yes, they turned Pentecostal.


Where in the Bible that speaking in tongues is an evidence of being filled with the Spirit?
See Acts 4:31 and 13:9-11. To be Spirit-filled is to be Spirit-controlled as I see it...don't you think?

Scriptures state emphatically that all saved persons have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body . . . ” 1 Cor 12:13, I believe it is a mistake to assume that speaking in tongues is synonymous with the baptism of the Holy Spirit....there is a lot of people who has done great ministries for God and never spoken in tongues, so does that mean they are not Pentecostal or saved?
Where in scripture should we be called Pentecostal?

Blessings, Woody
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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby Mrs. B on Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:11 pm

Depression vs. Grieving


They were called Peticostal because the Holy Spirit was Given on the day of Penticost......Penticost is first fruits.
God Gave The Holy spirit on the day of Penticost because this was the Promise, of the Out Pouring, of God's Holy Spirit on the Day of First Fruits....Penticost.
When Adam sin....He died Spiritually not physically
The Spirit of God left Him and he died spiritually....But God made a Promise to Eve that from the seed of woman God would restore....Eternal Life or the Spirit of Eternal life...So Jesus came paid our sin debt, assended into heaven and has sent back to man the promise of the Father.....The Holy Spirit of Eternal Life......what Adam sin He lost eternal life, But Jesus bought it back with His Life Blood....Jesus never sin one time...so He fulfilled the Promise of the Father and Sent back the Spirit of Eternal Life.....and on the day of Penticost.....The Promie of the Father was fulfilled...Jesus restored to man the Promise of Eternal Life.....all that will come to him and repent, be bapatized or buried in the watery grave,
confessing that Jesus is the Son of God and in Him Is Life Eternal restored....Faith in Him

We are born of Adam....but when we accept Jesus as our sin attonment...we are born Again and we have the Promise of the Father...The Holy spirit that dwells in us....It Quickens us and makes us alive in Jesus....Our sins are paid for and we are born Again of the Holy Spirit....we are babies and we must Grow....The Word of God is our Spiritual Food...
The Word and the Spirit Agree.....The More we seek Truth and Jesus the Tree of Life...we Grow...We never stop growing and learning.....Jesus bought us back from the dead by dying for us on the tree...He never sin so he alone qualified to pay our sin debt...not only ours but the whole world...all who will come and make Him Lord of their Life...

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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby daffodyllady on Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:45 pm

Wow, you have asked for a lot of information in that post!

Lots of people see it like you do. I came to my conclusion after lots of fasting and prayer, and study of the Word.
I do not say that only Pentecostals are saved. I think every believer has the Spirit from the moment of salvation, just as the disciples received the Spirit when they first believed on the risen Lord. (John 20: 19-22)
However, the Holy Spirit fell on them on the day of Pentecost. This happened to other groups in the book of Acts. (chap 10:44,and 11:15, Chap 19:6)

Of course, there are instances mentioned in which people became believers and nothing is said about the Spirit, or about speaking in tongues. Does this mean it did NOT happen, if nothing was said about it? No. There is no proof one way or the other in those cases. However, please note that in some of those cases, there is proof elsewhere in Scripture that those people DID speak in tongues.

Take Paul for instance. No mention of his speaking in tongues at his conversion/baptism. Yet, in I Cor 4:18, Paul says he speaks in tongues more than the whole Corinthian church! That's quite a bit. lol

Also, when the Corinthian church was started, there is no mention of tongues. (Acts 18:8) Yet, in I Corinthians 1:4-6, Paul says that the testimony of Christ was confirmed in them by gifts of utterance and knowledge.

Also, in Acts 8;12-17, The Apostles went to a lot of trouble to make sure the new believers in Samaria received the Holy Ghost. Why didn't they just take for granted, (like most Christians do today) that they automatically received it at their moment of salvation? How did they know the Holy Spirit had not been received? Verse 16 is the clue. Something was expected to happen that could be seen with the physical eye. When it did happen, Simon the Sorcerer, a very carnal man, was able to perceive it. He was so very impressed by the sight, that he wanted the power to impart the Holy Ghost, as the Apostles did. Please notice: Simon was not this impressed by the miracles and signs Philip had performed. He did not ask for such power. (verse 13) But the power to make the Holy Ghost fall on people evidenced a GREATER power than anything his eyes and ears had ever witnessed.

The Holy Ghost falling on people was EXPECTED to be easily verified. It was not something silent and unseen.

Therefore, I would expect that tongues and prophecy were the norm, and not the exception, in the early church.

The term 'Pentecostal" simply refers to those who think the way the early church began, is the same way it should be today. We believe that you have to twist the Scriptures pretty hard to try to find a proof that those gifts and signs were to end when the Scriptures were finally all written.

I belong to a church that does not speak in tongues. I know their lives. They love the Lord. I do not think I am superior to them, because being baptized in the Spirit does not make one a mature Christian. However, the gifts are tools, to be used to grow us up and make us useful to the church and to God.
Daffodyllady
Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, and touch not the unclean thing, and I will recieve you... Abstain from all appearance of evil...Without holiness shall no man see the Lord.
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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby Abiding in His Word on Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:15 pm

Great explanation, Daffodyllady. I agree.
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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:41 am

Daffy,
When I gave my life to Christ, I saw Glory, it was beyond my imagination, it was overwhelming!
I have prophesied and shared my gifts among the church, etc...
I believe Jesus is the same today as he was 2000 years ago...
I do believe in miracles and gifts. (I got my hearing and eyesight as I didn't go Blind at the time I gave my life to Christ)
But today's most denominations twist or manipulates a lot of scriptures, I have been to 30 pentecostal churches,
and every one of them had this babbling pagan language, false prophesies, itching ears, false teachings,
most people were a big mess in those denomination as what I saw. I see very clearly what God warned/showed me of the unclean spirit, We have to discern between the witchcraft and the Holy Spirit.
As for my questions, I wanted to see what you and others thought, because many of the Pentecostals saying they are grieving, but I believe its because they are following the wrong spirit and refuses to get out of that what I believe is a cult.
Therefore, I do not believe they are grieving but using it as an excuse, they refuse to change.
I understand what you're saying Daffy,
I don't call myself a pentecostal as a denomination,...I am a follower of Christ and do whatever God's Will is whether he wants to edify me, bless me , give the spiritual gift for me as a tool to witness, etc...
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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:56 am

Therefore, I would expect that tongues and prophecy were the norm, and not the exception, in the early church.

I agree Daffy, but a lot of Christians take the "Day of Pentecost" out of context and turn it into a babbling pagan language or mix the prayer language(groaning in the Spirit) as the speaking in tongues...
as I said, Jesus is the same as He was 2000 years ago...:)
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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby Mrs. B on Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:34 am

Depression vs. Grieving.


Faith comes by Hearing
By Hearing the Word of God...
It the Truth of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is not taught.....then people or young christians do not hear...
How can they Believe if they are not taught or told....
Faith Comes by Hearing.....
If they are taught it is not for today....then people believe a lie...Christian people believe a lie, that it is not for today.
So they never Receive.....
How do we get Saved? we hear the word about Jesus and we believe so we receive salvation by hearing and believing.
That is how we are Saved or Born Again....But if we are told that it passed away with the Apostiles....we are beliving a lie.
we get the evidence when we believe.God gives us an utterence or a language....an unknown language an languagae by the Spirit.
Given by the Holy Spirit.
It is unknown by our understanding but it is the Spirit of God praying for us....as an evidence ofthe New Born Christian.

It is our Prayer Language.....we sometimes do not know how to pray....so we pray in the Spirit. It is our spirit crying out abba Father....The Spirit of God growning or making utterence for us to the Father...Our Spirit Crying out to the Father in Jesus Name....Praying for us, through an unknown language...It is the Holy Spirit that Lives in Us...
crying Abba Father, Making intercession for us the believer....when we don't know how to pray....it is agrowning from our spirit to the Spirit of God....it is making Intercession for us.....

Our Spirit is grieving with in us...so praying in the Spirit is allowing our spirit to pray, in grownings, because sometimes we do not know how to pray or express ourselves...so the spirit prays for us and through us....


It also , is a Manifestation of the Spirit of God in the Church or in the Congergation....


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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby Abiding in His Word on Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:43 am

Mrs. B. said

It is our Prayer Language.....we sometimes do not know how to pray....so we pray in the Spirit.


Several times in the last couple months, a co-worker from my past has been heavy on my mind. I actually see their faces in my mind, but can't remember their names since I didn't work directly with them. It doesn't go away. No matter what I'm busying myself with, that person's face is there. These are the times we know we are to pray, but how escapes us. The Holy Spirit intercedes through the prayer language as the need is unknown to us. It becomes the perfect "fit" so to speak for the need unknown to us. That's what I believe is intercession; not the only kind though. If a person makes the need known, then we know how to pray. On the other hand.... :mrgreen: what that person thinks the need is, may not be in God's eyes. God may have an entirely different plan for that person. The beauty of the prayer language is that the Holy Spirit knows what we don't.
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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:28 pm

The beauty of the prayer language is that the Holy Spirit knows what we don't.

Exactly! ....you can't describe it, it's really amazing!
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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:50 pm

Mrs. B, some say depression is not in the Bible, so therefore, grieving is depression.
So, this is why some Christian I know makes excuses for their "grieving", so they say they are not sinning because they are grieving...get what I am saying? To me, they are like drug addicts who falls all apart...
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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby mark s on Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:34 pm

Are you talking about, like, clinical depression? The chemical imbalance?
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:36 pm

No, but I am talking about people who gets depressed by selfish means or because they dwells the unclean spirit, not based on what they lost.
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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby daffodyllady on Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:47 pm

Woodhenot, I do understand what you are talking about... it is a weird phenomenon that you have to see to understand. There is a kind of old Pentecostalism that majors on cooking up a certain negative emotional high, and they think it means they are close to God. I really think they give themselves a dopamine or serotonin rush, somehow.

They may call it grieving, laboring in the Spirit, pleading with God, or any other number of names. I call it mistaken. Don't get me wrong. I do understand that sometimes, God does lay a burden on us, and we become heavy with intercessory prayer. But when every church service becomes more and more heated, trying to work up this weird feeling... something is out of whack.

Any emotion you work up to try to make yourself feel something is not genuine. It is a fake, no matter who all in the church does it.
Daffodyllady
Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, and touch not the unclean thing, and I will recieve you... Abstain from all appearance of evil...Without holiness shall no man see the Lord.
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Re: Depression vs. Grieving

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:20 am

Amen Daffy, Thank you for understanding!
When I look back to the things God has done in my life,
I am so overwhelmed and amazed by the work of the Holy Spirit.
I believe in being a doer in the Holy Spirit.
Whenever we do the walk for Christ, He will provide whatever necessary in that walk...
it's all God's doing, not mine or anyone's.

Blessings, Woodhenot
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