Abomination that Makes Desolate

[Mr Baldy]

Mr. Baldy, how to feel about the serpent talking in the Garden of Eden. How did that happen?

Do you see the connection between the talking serpent (a beast) in the Garden of Eden, and the talking image of the beast of Revelation 13?

Douggg, this was pre-flood. Adam and Eve were both naked - and neither one of them were ashamed before their eyes became opened. My point is, it was not unusual that a snake would speak; or a rat; or a goat - as the Earth at that point was innocent, and a much completely different Earth than we have today. So, I really don't understand your line of questioning.

[MarkT]

I would like you to provide Scripture that states that the one 'seven' - as you call it, will have begun when the announcement of the Temple is about to be built.

Wait a minute... you're Mr. Figurative; the guy who doesn't take a literal approach and you want to take me ultra-literally as saying that I said the one 'seven' (and THAT is how GABRIEL puts it!) started with the building of the Temple?

LOL!

With all the disparate ideas which float around here so much so that nothing can be established half the time: What does the Covenant mean? Who forces it to be, or is this a warm, fuzzy confirmation? When will it happen or did it happen? -- with all the fanciful notions being tossed about let me give the reader a good indication that whatever comes down IS the Covenant: When you see the building of a Temple on the Temple Mount - the one 'seven' has begun!

[MarkT]

Can you justify your claims by inserting the Biiblical references into the above quote of your last post?

I thank you in anticipation of your compliance.

1. Yes I can.
2. With what particularily do you have a problem?

[Mr Baldy]

Wait a minute... you're Mr. Figurative; the guy who doesn't take a literal approach and you want to take me ultra-literally as saying that I said the one 'seven' (and THAT is how GABRIEL puts it!) started with the building of the Temple?

You know Teleiosis, one really should read what others state before placing lables on them. No where will you ever read that I don't take a literal approach exclusively. If you'll read what I wrote, instead of coming up with your own false intrepretation about who I am, it might help you to understand what others are relaying. I stated that there is figurative language written in the Book of Reveleation that expresses the symbolism that is described therein. This doesn't mean that I don't take a literal approach in my studies. Some things have literal meanings - some don't.

So how about spare the sarcasm, and labeling, and provide the Scripture to prove your point. By the way, there are other translations out there beside the NIV.

[Jay Ross]

Can you justify your claims by inserting the Biiblical references into the above quote of your last post?

I thank you in anticipation of your compliance.

1. Yes I can.
2. With what particularily do you have a problem?

Then why did not you insert the Biblical references into the quote above.
'
Now if I do not know the scriptural references that you are inferring helps to support your point of view, then I do not know if I have a problem with any particular claim that you have made in the post that I quoted above.

Now then do I dismiss your wisdom or should I wait for you to respond with that which I have asked you to add to your claims.

Shalom

Jay Ross

[MarkT]

So how about spare the sarcasm, and labeling, and provide the Scripture to prove your point. By the way, there are other translations out there beside the NIV.

Sarcasm?

How about calling it what it is? Extreme amusement because of the ironic dichotomy whereby you express authority to demand where it is written in Scripture when I never made that assertion!

I can show Scripture until the cows come home and I can bank that a majority of the not-constructive criticisms that follow will even accept the application as I see it!

Eschatology boards are a smorgasbord of opinions, interpretations, and readings and two people can lock horns forever over a single verse taking completely opposite positions on what can even be stated in rather unambiguous terms!

As so many can chime in and offer their opinions, and even idle chat can get serious contemplation, 'Oh, you know, you might have a point there...' if I have to explain that there will be a Temple at the midpoint - and there won't be a Temple until some agreement takes place which allows Israel to build that Temple on the Temple Mount - seeing how volatile that region is especially on that postage stamp of real estate which is God's center on this green earth - then I can offer up my opinion on a very easy gauge to know that with all the political maneuvering and diplomacy and meetings and conferences - that the agreement which the King of the North prevails upon Israel which finally starts the one 'seven' (and THAT is how GABRIEL puts it - IN THE HEBREW put into plain English) then I can tell the reader my opinion that when they see the Temple being built - they have three and a half PROPHETIC years to get ready for the Great Tribulation. (Store some "oil" both figurative and literal.)

[MarkT]

Then why did not you insert the Biblical references into the quote above.

Because it's a lot of work and I was out on the "road" working and it's really, really hard to do on a smart phone, and when I got home last night, I was really, really tired - AND I don't know what in particular you do know, what your understanding is, and what in particular you have a problem with in what I wrote.

When so many come in here with opinion and they are allowed to enter into discussion without the high standard that everything they write be directly tied to Scripture, I ask you to be a little more succinct in your request before I have to work like a slave before my new-found task master to satisfy your requirements for proof. I have offered up more verses in my posts than many others do, and I am slightly offended that it is demanded of me that I prove everything I say. I can. Now what do you have a problem with before I do the work so I know what you're going to take exception to in my application of Bible verse that I can provide.

[Mr Baldy]

I can show Scripture until the cows come home and I can bank that a majority of the not-constructive criticisms that follow will even accept the application as I see it!

Teleiosis,

You sound angry.

Since you have failed to back up your "opinions" with Scripture - let me provide you with one:

James 1:19-21 reads......

19) My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20) because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. 21) Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

I even quoted it from the NIV version that you like to use. Have a blessed day!

[MarkT]

Amazing! You can hear the sound of my voice when I type.

Thanks for the lecture Mr. Baldy. You have uplifted me by trying to cut me down... once again.

[burien1]

You did not 'sound' angry to me, Mark T. So carry on.

[Mr Baldy]

Thanks for the lecture Mr. Baldy. You have uplifted me by trying to cut me down... once again.

Not so Teleiosis. I have not tried to cut you down. You just appear to be angry anytime someone challenges you on the comments that you post. Scripture is clear concerning that Believers should be prepared to give an answer to the reason why they have the hope that they have.

1 Peter 3:15 reads......

"But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect"

You really shouldn't be so easily offended because one challenges your opinion. Especially when you can't seem to provide Scripture to support what you are saying.

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate....


Slick....thank you.....I now think I Know and understand.......

Luke 21:20.....And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, THEN KNOW THAT THE DESOLATION THEREOF IS NIGH.......

Notice....Jerusalem compassed with armies....
we take this for what happens in 70ad......but Jesus was talking about this end time the 70 th week as you call it.
the 2300 days as Daniel writes it...

Then get out of Jerusalem
Luke 21:21....Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and le them which ae in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22For these be the days of Vengeance, that lal things ARE WRITTEN MAY BE FULFILLED....

Praise the Lord for Luke.....
24b....and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, Until the Times of the Gentiles be fulfilled...

The times of the Gentiles are full....The end of the church age as we know it...the sins of the Gentiles are full..
and Judgment begins at Jerusalem....
22...For the days of Vengeance that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23b...for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24...and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, Until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25...And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and Upon the Earth Distress of Nations, with perplelxity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26..Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the Earth:
for the Powers of Heaven shall be shaken.
27...And then shall they see the Son of Man Coming in a Cloud with Power and Great Glory..
Notice...
28...And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and life tup your heads; for YOUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH....

SHIPS FROM CHITTIM
NUMBERS 24:24....And ships shall come from the coast of Chittim, and shall afflict Asshur, and shall afflict Eber, and he also shall perish for ever...AND EBER, AND HE ALSO SHALL PERISH FOREVER...
BECAUSE THE kINGDOM OF GOD IS COME AND JESUS WILL RULE AND REIGN ON THIS EARTH FOR A THOUSAND YEARS.
World Judgment begins at Jerusalem





Hello Mrs B , RT and Gang,

I dont post much here anymore but I do check in and read the posts almost daily.this thread has caught my interest and I felt that perhaps I could add some worthwhile input.

The AOD is truly a much more intricate subject than sometimes given credit.It is really the KEY piece in unlocking the surety of entrance into of the 70th week. There is great confusion and misunderstanding of nearly all aspects of this important issue,TIMING,PLACE,PEOPLE....this leads to a great deal of debate among believers.

First,lets look at one of the key Passages in the NT dealing with this subject. Olivet Discourse Matthew 24....Luke 21\...Mark 13

MARK 13:14
"BUT WHEN YOU SEE THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION STANDING WHERE IT SHOULD NOT (LET THE READER UNDERSTAND),THEN LET THOSE WHO ARE IN JUDEA FLEE TO THE MOUNTAINS..."

MATTHEW 24:15
"THEREFORE,WHEN YOU SEE THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, WHICH WAS SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL THE PROPHET,STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE (LET THE READER UNDERSTAND)..."

LUKE 21:20
"BUT WHEN YOU SEE JERUSALEM SURROUNDED BY ARMIES,THEN RECOGNIZE THAT HER DESOLATION IS AT HAND...."

This is being fulfilled right now.....Glory look up for our redemption draws neigh.
this is the beginning of the last 7 years or the beginning of the end.........or 2300 days

Mrs. B

[MarkT]

The abomination of desolation (siqqus mesomen) mentioned in the Olivet Discourse is the midpoint of the one 'seven' according to Gabriel in Daniel 9:27.

The one 'seven' starts with the "prevailing" (gabar) of a covenant. This is different than the "cutting off of the Messiah" in the previous verse - which also signifies a covenant because besides being "chopped off" so there is no lineage nor life left like when a tree is chopped down - that word (karat) is also used in the Hebrew to "cut" a deal, and that involves the shedding of blood - which Jesus did.

Going from Revelation 11:1-13, which is a sidebar account to the overall chronology of the Seal/Scroll broad overview to the end-times, we have the Temple being the fixture of the first half of the one 'seven.' It has to be built before the midpoint abomination can be set up in it - so the Man of Lawlessness, the anti-Christ can come in and being bestowed as the conqueror he is over Israel is presented with his "prize" - a talking image of himself as Paul tells us in 2Th 2. This then begins the Great Tribulation, (Mt 24:22) - the Test (Rev 3:10) that will come upon the whole world - and in accordance with the meaning of all (kol) in the Hebrew - that is all the world that matters.

So when the Roadmap is used by the "North," i.e., the European/American/Russian consortium, to force (gabar) Israel to accept a peace - one of the things we can anticipate is the building of the Temple when Israel is given the authority to go through with the plans the Sanhedrin have been making to build the Temple on the Temple Mount so they can legally re-institute lawful OT worship.

[Resurrection Torchlight]

The abomination of desolation (siqqus mesomen) mentioned in the Olivet Discourse is the midpoint of the one 'seven' according to Gabriel in Daniel 9:27.

The one 'seven' starts with the "prevailing" (gabar) of a covenant. This is different than the "cutting off of the Messiah" in the previous verse - which also signifies a covenant because besides being "chopped off" so there is no lineage nor life left like when a tree is chopped down - that word (karat) is also used in the Hebrew to "cut" a deal, and that involves the shedding of blood - which Jesus did.

Going from Revelation 11:1-13, which is a sidebar account to the overall chronology of the Seal/Scroll broad overview to the end-times, we have the Temple being the fixture of the first half of the one 'seven.' It has to be built before the midpoint abomination can be set up in it - so the Man of Lawlessness, the anti-Christ can come in and being bestowed as the conqueror he is over Israel is presented with his "prize" - a talking image of himself as Paul tells us in 2Th 2. This then begins the Great Tribulation, (Mt 24:22) - the Test (Rev 3:10) that will come upon the whole world - and in accordance with the meaning of all (kol) in the Hebrew - that is all the world that matters.

So when the Roadmap is used by the "North," i.e., the European/American/Russian consortium, to force (gabar) Israel to accept a peace - one of the things we can anticipate is the building of the Temple when Israel is given the authority to go through with the plans the Sanhedrin have been making to build the Temple on the Temple Mount so they can legally re-institute lawful OT worship.

Well said- I agree

RT

[Mr Baldy]

The one 'seven' starts with the "prevailing" (gabar) of a covenant.

Well Teleiosis, let me first start by thanking you for finally putting the applicable Scripture in your comments. It helps with the debate - especially for those who aren't as well versed as you are. But in your aforementioned comment, there is no evidence whatsoever, that "The one 'seven' starts with the prevailing of a covenant". This is an assumption on your part. We have in Daniel 9:27 the mentioning of the coming Antichrist "confirming" a covenant with many - and not necessarily by force, and not by peace, as so many tend to believe. This only mentions the strengthening (confirming) of a previous covenant that is already in existence, and it gives us no concrete evidence that this actually "starts" or begins the final 7 year period. It merely states that it will occur, and that for a period of 7 years.

The abomination of desolation (siqqus mesomen) mentioned in the Olivet Discourse is the midpoint of the one 'seven' according to Gabriel in Daniel 9:27.

For you to state that the "one 'seven' starts" at the point of the "prevailing of a covenant" - then you would have to also consider Daniel 12:11, which mentions your aforementioned comment concerning the A0D occurring at it's "midpoint" - and why 1,290 days are mentioned vs 1,260 days. The 1,260 days would be the actual "midpoint" of the 'one seven' that you have mentioned. So I see a a discrepancy of 30 days. Can you explain this apparent discrepancy, that you have failed to mention in your analogy?

You also make this comment:

we have the Temple being the fixture of the first half of the one 'seven.'

In addition: Daniel 12:12 also has an additional 45 day period, that extends the 1,290 to a recorded 1,335 days. That brings this 'one seven' period beyond it's limits, as you have commented that the 'one seven' has a "first half". If is has a "first half" then it must also have an additional "half". I find no evidence that Scripture has divided any portion of this apparent remaining week - into halves.

You further state this concerning the Temple:

so the Man of Lawlessness, the anti-Christ can come in and being bestowed as the conqueror he is over Israel is presented with his "prize" - a talking image of himself as Paul tells us in 2Th 2. This then begins the Great Tribulation

Here it is quite apparent that you are "assuming" that the A0D will be the Man of Lawlessness coming into the Temple, "being bestowed as the conqueror over Israel" - and that he is further "presented with his prize - a talking image of himself". There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Scripture states that this event - which by the way is a poor interpretation of Scripture in my opinion, of what the A0D actually is.

When Jesus explains the events surrounding the AOD in Matthew 24:15 - He makes the statement "standing in the holy place" He refers to the prophet Daniel, as the one who spoke about this event - and requires that the "reader understand". These events are further confirmed by Luke 21:20-21 - who never mentions a "talking image".

Placing fictional fairy tale like events to Scripture would likely make a mediocre make-believe novel - but the book won't ever make the best sellers list in real world.

[MarkT]

Placing fictional fairy tale like events to Scripture would likely make a mediocre make-believe novel - but the book won't ever make the best sellers list in real world.

You say you don't want to debate to others, and with me you say you want to debate, but what I really get is an argument accompanied by personal insult.

What I put together through my study of the Sequence-of-Events in all of Bible prophecy and even from books which aren't normally considered prophetic (the Songs of Solomon for instance) allows me to see end-time prophecy slowly unfolding today. It is not here yet, but it is coming.

For you to call my work a "fictional fairy tale" is mean-spirited because you dismiss with the back of your hand, what I see you don't really understand. I am slightly offended to be treated like this once again. I am not angry, no matter what you say or said before. Please treat me with the respect you give others and ask for yourself.

Now for the points in your post...

[MarkT]

there is no evidence whatsoever, that "The one 'seven' starts with the prevailing of a covenant". This is an assumption on your part. We have in Daniel 9:27 the mentioning of the coming Antichrist "confirming" a covenant with many - and not necessarily by force, and not by peace, as so many tend to believe. This only mentions the strengthening (confirming) of a previous covenant that is already in existence, and it gives us no concrete evidence that this actually "starts" or begins the final 7 year period. It merely states that it will occur, and that for a period of 7 years.

This is flat-out wrong, and like the six thousand year-old earth interpretation came about only with the King James translation.

What they took gabar for, may have meant closer to the Hebrew in its day, but it is far from it today. That so many hold onto the KJV in successive translations has more to do with being "familiar" than being correct.

That so many think like you do is a natural result of what you have read and what you have been taught. In this respect, usually the deepest word study anyone will do is to look it up in the Strong's Concordance. A concordance is not an exact word study; it is not a wordbook. It is just a concordance. In the respect of Strong's and the King James Version - the two are circular. Strong's defines words as the King James translated it. You will not find any disparity between ancient Hebrew and Greek words and the KJV with Strongs' Concordance.

gabar means prevail when used as a verb, be mighty, have strength, be great, when used as an adjective.

"In Arabic, the basic meaning of the root is "to rise, raise, restore," with the idea of being strong, or prevailing over coming only in the derived stems. That the Hebrew may share a similar range of meaning is seen in the Hithpael where the idea is not so much to make oneself prevail over God, as it is to raise oneself up in arrogance and stand in his face (Job 15:25, 36:9; Isa 42:13). The Hebrew root is commonly associated with warfare and has to do with the strength and vitality of the successful warrior." - Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament p. 148; Harris, Archer and Waltke; Moody Press; 1980.

gabar in Daniel 9:27 is in the Hiphil stem showing a causative action (he prevails a covenant upon many - Israel, or, he causes the covenant to be forced through upon many) and perfect conjugation indicating a simple, completed action.

You can argue all you want for "confirm," but those relatively uneducated translators from the time of Shakespeare don't make your definition any more right than it is still wrong. Yours is an argument from ignorance. Keep it if you want, but don't tell me I'm wrong when I have the best Hebrew scholars today on my side because I studied from them.

[MarkT]

For you to state that the "one 'seven' starts" at the point of the "prevailing of a covenant" - then you would have to also consider Daniel 12:11, which mentions your aforementioned comment concerning the A0D occurring at it's "midpoint" - and why 1,290 days are mentioned vs 1,260 days. The 1,260 days would be the actual "midpoint" of the 'one seven' that you have mentioned. So I see a a discrepancy of 30 days. Can you explain this apparent discrepancy, that you have failed to mention in your analogy?

In addition: Daniel 12:12 also has an additional 45 day period, that extends the 1,290 to a recorded 1,335 days. That brings this 'one seven' period beyond it's limits, as you have commented that the 'one seven' has a "first half". If is has a "first half" then it must also have an additional "half". I find no evidence that Scripture has divided any portion of this apparent remaining week - into halves.

That you "find" no evidence for the second half to be of like time as the first half just means that you can't "find" it. It doesn't mean it's not there because I can find it quite easily.

The reference to the thirty and forty-five day periods comes only in the question and answer period in Daniel and the Man in Linen is imparting additional information to Daniel and us; He does not exactly answer Daniel's questions directly.

There are not 1290 days between the time the sacrifice is stopped and the abomination is set up or revealed. There are 1290 days marking another period of time which comes after the conclusion of the one 'seven' which is split in half by the abomination and a yet-to-be-named event.

Through my study of the Sequence-of-Events, I know from OT prophecy that there will be an ingathering of the surviving Jews and the other nations from around the world. This ingathering takes time when everything is destroyed.

Once the host is gathered, the next prophetic event which is mentioned in OT prophecy, because it concerns Israel, is the Sukkot, the temporary sheltering Israel will do. The Festivals, or Appointed Times, point the way to this period which then is allotted for the 45-day period.

Only after the 1335 days will Israel enter into the Sabbath Millennial and thus have true peace and safety in the full knowledge of their Messiah King whom they now know is the same Servant Messiah they rejected in Christ Jesus. And Jesus will rule with an iron scepter and there will be peace and healing.

So what you want to argue so incessantly about isn't germane to what I was addressing so I didn't address it! That does not mean I can't give an interpretation based on Scripture; I did.

That you won't accept it is pretty much a given. I've rarely seen people who argue suddenly change their mind.

[MarkT]

Here it is quite apparent that you are "assuming" that the A0D will be the Man of Lawlessness coming into the Temple, "being bestowed as the conqueror over Israel" - and that he is further "presented with his prize - a talking image of himself". There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Scripture states that this event - which by the way is a poor interpretation of Scripture in my opinion, of what the A0D actually is.

When Jesus explains the events surrounding the AOD in Matthew 24:15 - He makes the statement "standing in the holy place" He refers to the prophet Daniel, as the one who spoke about this event - and requires that the "reader understand". These events are further confirmed by Luke 21:20-21 - who never mentions a "talking image".

No I am NOT assuming, I read it in 2Th 2 and Jesus said it in the Olivet Discourse. Do not say I am in error when you display the limited vision of your understanding.

2Th 2:4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Mt 24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation, 'spoken of through the prophet Daniel —let the reader understand—

Paul says he is in the Temple.
Jesus said the abomination will be standing in the "Holy Place."
Both are right!
The Holy Place in the Bible is IN the Temple, in front of the Curtain!

Matthew's text does not say Daniel spoke about the abomination being in the Holy Place; Daniel did not speak about 'that event' as being in the Holy Place. Jesus referenced Daniel in regards to the abomination and the specific reference of three I conclude by the terms of the nuance of the Hebrew is in Dan 9:27. Jesus then tells us the abomination will be set up (standing, it's a statue, a talking image by Rev 13:15) in the Holy Place - the same as Paul!

So you want to be dismissive saying I assume because you cannot find any evidence.
Well I do not assume and I have plenty of evidence which you cannot see.

Good day Mister Baldy, we are through here until such time as you can be nicer to me and I have more time to respond on a proper keyboard.

[Mr Baldy]

For you to call my work a "fictional fairy tale" is mean-spirited because you dismiss with the back of your hand, what I see you don't really understand. I am slightly offended to be treated like this once again. I am not angry, no matter what you say or said before. Please treat me with the respect you give others and ask for yourself.

Teleiosis,

For the record, this has never been a "personal attack" against you - but about your work. Nor has it been an argument. If you put it out there, then it's gonna be challenged - after all, this is a debate forum. I see that you still internalize things when someone challenges your "opinion". As I view your comments, I see that you just see things the way that you want to see them. Just because you interpret Scripture your way, it doesn't make it the gospel.

As far as me debating - if you READ what I wrote, I have stated that I don't debate about the Rapture. I do however, consider other's views concerning eschatology - as there are holes in all of these theories, and none of us have it absolutely correct, especially not me. I do however, recognize when I see something that just doesn't appear to be right - so I question it. You really shouldn't be offended by this. After all, my comments are only my opinion as well, and although I know that you love me, I really shouldn't be that important to you.

I've learned in life that very few people have the ability to "think outside of the box". Most have tunnel vision, and because of pride they can't see the Forrest for the trees. Others just blindly accept what they have been taught, and go through life missing out on very important things that can help them develop physically, mentally, and spiritually. I hope that you are not a prideful person - or lack the ability to think outside of the box.

[MarkT]

You say:

I hope that you are not a prideful person - or lack the ability to think outside of the box.

Which has nothing to do with what words mean and what the Bible says.

No, it is a very personal attack, yeah - right! 'You hope I am not a prideful person.' Oh, how nice: now whether I am or am not "prideful" is the issue! And there is no way for me to deny it! As soon as I start to defend myself, you will say I am angry! You are now making me the subject and quite frankly: that is an ad hominem attack!

Then you say:

For the record, this has never been a "personal attack" against you - but about your work.

And you just made one.

Also, calling my "work" a flight of fantasy is an attack without grounds. That kind of mean-spirited dismissal is not debate but just pure personal destruction; you can't debate, so you go to discredit.

You want to debate eschatology, but not the Rapture? You cannot debate eschatology without debating the Rapture because various eschatologies define themselves on when they place the Rapture or whether they say there is a Rapture at all!

I'm sorry. You can't debate. You're not even on subject here; you have nothing credible to offer in way of a lucid argument. Your 'punching at holes' has resulted in you punching at air... your points have no credence. Good night mister baldy; you still haven't learned how to play nice.

I will out of state for a couple of days earning money.

[Mr Baldy]

I will out of state for a couple of days earning money.

Have a safe trip Teleiosis.....



To Slick,

You have mentioned the very essence of what Scripture speaks of concerning the A0D (in my very humble opinion). There are many who want to make the act of the coming Antichrist taking a seat in the Temple proclaiming himself to be God, in conjunction with some "talking head" like statue being erected - as evidence that the A0D has occurred. I beg to differ, and I believe what you have provided may just describe what the A0D actually is. You have provided this:

The AOD is truly a much more intricate subject than sometimes given credit.It is really the KEY piece in unlocking the surety of entrance into of the 70th week. There is great confusion and misunderstanding of nearly all aspects of this important issue,TIMING,PLACE,PEOPLE....this leads to a great deal of debate among believers.

First,lets look at one of the key Passages in the NT dealing with this subject. Olivet Discourse Matthew 24....Luke 21\...Mark 13

MARK 13:14
"BUT WHEN YOU SEE THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION STANDING WHERE IT SHOULD NOT (LET THE READER UNDERSTAND),THEN LET THOSE WHO ARE IN JUDEA FLEE TO THE MOUNTAINS..."

MATTHEW 24:15
"THEREFORE,WHEN YOU SEE THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, WHICH WAS SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL THE PROPHET,STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE (LET THE READER UNDERSTAND)..."

LUKE 21:20
"BUT WHEN YOU SEE JERUSALEM SURROUNDED BY ARMIES,THEN RECOGNIZE THAT HER DESOLATION IS AT HAND...."

Based on the aforementioned Scriptures that you have provided, It appears as if the A0D will "stand" in the "holy place" - not take a seat in the Temple. Thank you for providing these Scriptures.

[slick]

Hello Mr Baldy,

Based on the aforementioned Scriptures that you have provided, It appears as if the A0D will "stand" in the "holy place" - not take a seat in the Temple. Thank you for providing these Scriptures.

II Thessalonians 2 does say "..SO THAT HE TAKES HIS SEAT IN THE TEMPLE..." However I believe that when you look at the whole of scripture and the language in the original text you find that it is simply an adage meaning that both IN CLAIM AND ACCEPTANCE He has taken the place of GOD, which was my point of the two events occurring simultaneously A/C claiming to be GOD and the Tares or UN-Believers Immediately aquiesce to His demands.

We live in a day in age where Communication is both worldwide and instant in all formats....TEXT,VIDEO,AUDIO....The idea of some ARCANE statue or idol being given power to speak seems a bit (lot) far fetched, and I would more likely believe it is some sort of world wide telecast and or communications take over.

I really Have stopped debating the issues which is why I dont post much here anymore, I agree that too many people ( I being one of the most guilty) have tunnel vision and refuse to look at the clear evidence from scripture.Scripture was written 2000 plus years ago by men who had no concept of the incredible strides in technology, and warfare, space travel...etc...they related and recorded what they saw based on what they understood.....I know that the HOLY SPIRIT gave them what to say and write, however the HOLY SPIRIT also understood that HE was giving words to write to simple human beings and was communicating in a way that would be easily understood to the common masses in all generations.

Daniel 12:4

"BUT AS FOR YOU, DANIEL, CONCEAL THESE WORDS AND SEAL UP THE BOOK UNTIL THE END OF TIME; MANY WILL GO BACK AND FORTH, AND KNOWLEDGE WILL INCREASE."

The above verse (THE ANGEL) simply put says this...." HEY DANIEL, I KNOW YOU OR YOUR READERS DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT IM TELLING YOU JUST WRITE IT DOWN AND THEY WILL GET IT WHEN THE THINGS IM TELLING YOU BEGIN TO HAPPEN....." the new clarence version...;) (guaranteed to be riddled with error) :)

Well here we are and though Scripture and God is immutable and it was written and recorded perfectly....we are told in Daniel and other places, that when it comes to END TIMES prophecy it will become clearer when the events begin to take place, so even in the Olivet Discourse,JESUS himself says...."WATCH THE HEADLINES...." "let the reader understand!

GOD-BLESS,
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!

Clarence

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate.....

Standing in the Temple.......? Jesus said, (whoso readeth, let him understand:

Until we understand that the Church is the Dwelling Place for the Holy Spirit to dwell....we will not understand prophsey...
Jesus said...whoso readeth let him understand.....understand by the Holy Spirit that Lives in Us the Believers...
Jesus said, Go to Jerusalem and wait until you receive the Promise of the Father...
what is the promise of the Father??? Read Acts. also

Go to Genesis....3
The first Adam brought death....He disobeyed God the Father and Death entered into God's Creation.
and man begin to die...He died spiritually then physically...when Adam sin the eternal spirit of God left him and Adam died....
Jesus is the Second Adam....Jesus never sin one time...He was the Promise God made to Eve in the garden.\
He is the seed....of woman that God Promised....Jesus is the Seed...The Promise of the Father, the promise of Eternal
Life......Jesus came, Died without sin, so sin had no power over him, He went into Abrahams bosom, revealed Himself
to those who were in the abode of the dead...and showed Himself, that He had fufliffed God's Perfect Plan...He was the Promise seed.....So He told His disciples to go to Jerusalem and wait for the Promise of the Father. What is the Promise of the Father....That you and I can be Born Again, by the Word and the Spirit, The Holy Spirit....comes into our heart and we experience a New Life....
Jesus said, He that believeth in me even thought he is dead....yet shall he live or ....never die....

This Gospel is to go into all the World and preach this good news...that In Jesus we have everlasting life...This Gospel begin in Jerusalem.....First to the Jews then to the whole world...to all Nations. Those who believe and are Baptized shall be born again...born of the Father...Born of the Holy Spirit....This is the Gospel.The Good News

Mrs. B

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate.....


Satan is God's enemy....satan is a deceiver....he is a lier....there is no truth in Him.
The Falling Away is the Believers fall away from truth....
The Abomination that Makes Desolate is when the church falls away from the Good News that Jesus is the Only Way to life eternal.....We are saved by Faith in Him....our church does not save us....Only Jesus
Jesus said, we must love Him more then our mother, brother, father, children, and love him more then ourselves.
You must hate, or love less any thing in your life...and Jesus must be first.

we the believers make up the church or the body of christ....
We are the Temple
I Corin. 6:19...What? know ye not that your BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY GHOST......your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost, which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not Your Own?
20...For ye are bought with a Price: therefore Glorify God in Your Body, and in your Spirit which are God's.

The Church makes up the body of Christ.
I Peter 1:18....Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conersation received by tradition from your fathers;
19...BUT WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHIRST, As a Lamb without blemish and without spot:
20...Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the World, but was manifest in these LAST Times for you...
2 Peter 2:2...As New born Babes, desire the sincere milk of the Word, that ye may grow thereby:
If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is Gracious. 4...To Whom coming, as Unto LIVING STONE, DISALLOWED INDEED OF MEN, BUT CHOSEN OF GOD, AND PRECIOUS, 5...YE ALSO, AS lively stones, are built Up A Spiritual House, An Holy Priesthood, to offer Up Spiritual Sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.6.Wherefore also it is contained in the Scripture, BEHOLD I Lay in Sizon a CHIEF CORNER STONE ELECT, PRECIOUS: AND HE THAT BELIEVETH ON HIM SHALL NOT BE CONFOUNDED....9: But ye are a chosen Generation , a Royal Priesthood, An Holy Nation, a Peculiar people: that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His Marvelious Light...

Jesus is the Chief Corner Stone....
Every building has to have a cornerstone....Jesus is the corner stone...The Temple on this earth...we are to be the Light of the World.....He is the Corner Stone and we make up the building...The Church....are bodies are the TEMPLE where He lives...we represent Jesus.....on this earth....

Mrs. B

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate...


Satan's desire is to take Jesus Place.....to defile the Temple....or the fallen away church...by false teaching and false beleiving....
I John 2:18....Little children, it is the last time:
and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists: whereby we know that it is the last time.
19...They went out from us,
but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us...
20....BUT Ye have an UNCTION from the Holy One, and ye Know all Things.

25...And this is the Promise that He hath Promised us, Even Eternal Life.....26 But the Anointing which ye have received of Him Abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: But as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, Ye shall abide in HIM
28...And Now, Little Children, Abide IN HIM, that when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him, at his coming...

The A/C will deceive if possible the very elect...
Paul writes...II Thess. 2:10....And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish: because they received not The Love of the Truth that they might be saved.
11...And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should belileve a lie:
12..That they all might be ****** who believed not the truth..but had pleasure in unrighteousness.....
The A/c ministery is to deceive...there is no truth in Him...

Mrs. B