Exit40 wrote:Umm, regarding Saints coming with Jesus....
First of all, I was referencing Paul's second coming of Jesus to gather the Elect on the Day of the Lord which is found in 1Th 3:13. May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.
Now let's look at your references, which also refer to the coming of Christ Jesus on the Day of the Lord, but do so, not in the aspect to rescue, but to judge! You cut your quote short - there is some very important information in verse 15 which separates these Saints from the few of the Elect who are still alive and are left upon the earth (1Th 4:15) as Jesus described in the Olivet Discourse saying the Great Tribulation would be cut short for the sake of the Elect so they would not all perish -- these Saints come to judge the world!
Jud 1:14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones
15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him."
1. This is not coming to rescue but to judge! The last of the Elect are like the five wise virgins awaiting the arrival of the Bridegroom.
2. It is not with a Great Multitude of Saints which defy numbering like the Great Multitude of the sixth Seal who number more than the Angels of Heaven at more than 100 million. (The arrival of the Great Multitude in Heaven transpires after the same sun/moon/star event which occurs with the opening of the sixth Seal which is just like the sun/moon/star sign event of Mt 24:29 - which also has the gathering of the elect happening after it - the sequence order is the same.
Now there are thousands upon thousands who NEVER leave the Lamb's side,
Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps.
3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
and they are also pictured in Day of the Lord Wrath as being with Jesus:
Joel 2:1 Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the LORD is coming. It is close at hand —
2 a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come.
3 Before them fire devours, behind them a flame blazes. Before them the land is like the garden of Eden, behind them, a desert waste — nothing escapes them.
4 They have the appearance of horses; they gallop along like cavalry.
5 With a noise like that of chariots they leap over the mountaintops, like a crackling fire consuming stubble, like a mighty army drawn up for battle.
6 At the sight of them, nations are in anguish; every face turns pale.
7 They charge like warriors; they scale walls like soldiers. They all march in line, not swerving from their course.
8 They do not jostle each other; each marches straight ahead. They plunge through defenses without breaking ranks.
9 They rush upon the city; they run along the wall. They climb into the houses; like thieves they enter through the windows.
10 Before them the earth shakes, the heavens tremble, the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars no longer shine.
11 The LORD thunders at the head of his army; his forces are beyond number, and mighty is the army that obeys his command. The day of the LORD is great; it is dreadful. Who can endure it?
Now - SINCE the 144,000 go wherever Jesus goes - we CAN know that they are part of God's Army!
However! I will go further than that! Because they are sealed, and can survive calamity having the protection of God, and because Jesus does NOT need billions of Saints to take on hundreds of millions - to do so would elevate our importance and simultaneously diminish the power of Christ - I will put forth that the 144,000 ARE the VERY thousands upon thousands that come with Jesus to judge the wicked of the world when they are burned in the field of this earth!
So in Jude 1:14, it aptly describes a limited number, thousands upon thousands rather than a great multitude which outnumbers the Angels in Heaven as John says of the Great Multitude of the sixth Seal.
Now let's look at your reference in Zechariah, and again, you miss vital information conveyed in the Word of God in the previous verses to that which you cited which allows for an interpretation of who is fleeing...
Zec 14:1 A day of the LORD is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.
2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle.
4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.
5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
6 On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness.
7 It will be a unique day—a day known only to the LORD —with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.Verse 1
: Identified as Day of the Lord prohecy, this is addressed to Jerusalem: this is the time of Jacob's Trouble! Remember: (and I am not sermonizing) Zechariah foretold that two-thirds of the Jews would die during the end-times.Verse 2/3
: Jerusalem will fall and subsequently (on the Day of the Lord Wrath) Jesus will fight against those who plundered it.Verse 4
: This is a very important verse!
This is in complete agreement with the Ascension of Christ Jesus detailed in Acts chapter 1 from the Mount of Olives! And, according to no less an expert witness than the Angels who speak to the Disciples in Acts 1:11 - as Jesus ascended, so shall He return!
The second coming of Jesus has our Lord descending to alight upon the Mount of Olives. Yes, Jesus "touches down" before the Rapture of the Elect who are still alive and are left after the Great Tribulation has reduced their ranks to a few survivors.
This is the SECOND earthquake of the sixth Seal! There are five events which open up with the sixth Seal's breaking to 'set the stage' for what is happening on the earth at that time!
Rev 6:12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal.
 There was a great earthquake.
 The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,
13  and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.
14  The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and
 every mountain and island was removed from its place.
 - There is an earthquake right out of Hag 2:6-7 which is repeated in Heb 12:26-27.
 - The sun and moon events in order of their appearance. The process of the foreboding sun/moon/star event starts at noon according to Amos 8:9! The darkening of the sun at its brightest time is due to a covering of clouds as Isaiah 50:3, Ezekiel 32:7 and Joel 2:2 dictate! When evening comes, these clouds dissipate to reveal a red moon like what happens at an eclipse.
 - There are celestial fireworks - a grand meteor shower as...
 - The Sign of the Son of Man appears in the sky: the scrolling of the sky! As Isaiah 34:4 and Zec 14:7 dictate: in the evening it will be light!
 - The second earthquake of the sixth Seal happening AFTER Jesus descends from the sky to earth as the Angels dictated in Acts 1:11!
THIS is when the Mount of Olives is split in two! AND like with the recent earthquakes in the Indian Ocean which resulted in the Christmas tsunami and the earthquake in southern South America which rang the earth like a bell - and in both instances EVERY point on the earth SHIFTED - so too will this earthquake change the relative position so that each peak (Islands are mountains which poke above sea level) which acts as a reference point on the face of the earth will shift just like they have done recently.
Back to Zechariah 14...Verse 5
: "YOU" is addressed to the Jews, specifically the Jews who live in Jerusalem during the time of the Great Tribulation! The whole passage starts off with addressing Jerusalem: the capitol of the Israel nation! No Christians could stand being that close to the abomination which is in the Temple on the Temple Mount! No Christian will be able to travel freely because of the mark and the second law which makes the Great Tribulation eliminate so many of the Elect - the Daniel Test of worship the beast or die - so who is in Jerusalem? Jews and some Arabs! If there are any Christians there left alive, they are deep in hiding!
SO - who is doing the fleeing? It is not us as you suppose David; it is the Jews who, like those in Judea who fled on the eve of the midpoint abomination into the wilderness, will be hidden by Jesus and moved about during the second half of the one 'seven' so that there is a remnant of Jews to even enter the Millennium reign of Christ!
So who are "all the Saints" who come with Jesus?
First of all, kol
in the Hebrew culture means 'all that is applicable.' It is not as all-encompassing as our culture insists "all" has to be which means every last bit!
In Paul's day, he said the Gospel was spread ALL over the world! Was the Gospel preached to the American Indians? The Mormons use this verse to support their cult! The answer is no, there is no record of civilizations such as Joseph Smith described when he copied whole sections of the Old Testament into that devilish work of his.
Was the Gospel spread in China? The Han Dynasty was at its height at the time of Christ and rivaled the Roman Empire not only in scope as far as land, but in population, wealth, and power! Yet not a single bit of evidence shows that as of the sixth decade of the first century did even one soul venture there to spread the Good News!
So what did Paul mean by "all?" Was it our literal everywhere? NO! It was all that was applicable.
Another difference between their culture and ours. In our culture, it is against the law to omit a fact. You can be punished for not telling the truth, the whole truth and all the truth. In Hebrew culture, there is no sin of omission! Indeed, much of prophecy omits what we would consider pertinent facts! Did God commit a crime? Most certainly not! It is a difference of culture and of language and its use which confuses us when we read what they wrote sometimes.
The Saints could be the Saints of 1Th 3:13 - that would be the Saints who are resurrected from their ordinary deaths who rise before those who are still alive and are left upon the earth are lifted up to meet them in the clouds with Jesus. As the Bible says of Jesus' glorious coming on the clouds, every eye will see... so it could be that this is the sight Zechariah saw.
It also could be the 144,000 who come with Jesus. Maybe Zechariah saw a vision like Joel's... we can't know.
But in either case, we cannot say it is ALL the Saints meaning every last one of them - all it has to be is all who are applicable whether it be those risen from their ordinary grave or the Firstfruits of the Harvest.
In either case - nowhere in Zechariah does he state it is the "faithful remnant chosen to survive." That is something you put in there out of your own eschatology!
Verses 6/7: Descriptions of the Day of the Lord, the unknown day.
So there, with full Biblical backup by a plethora of sources is my answer to you.