The Antichrist: Islamic, Marxist, or something else?

[Sword of Geddon]

Various forms of socialism or "leftest" thinking are the dominant philosophies in the Western world. Political Correctness and other concepts practiced and enforced by "progressives" have eroded American Society, just as was done in Europe. Would the Anti-Christ arise out of this? Would he be a force that promotes worldwide the same moral decay that progressivism has caused in the West?

Many popular end-times novels and other material usually presume a western Anti-Christ, a man who will promote the globalism represented by the united nations and trans-nationalists.

There seems to be great precedence for such a leader. Today the Trans-Nationalists, those who believe in the formation of a world government and the end of nations have a lot of money behind them. One could argue the skeleton of a world government already exists, between the United Nations, World Trade Organization, and International Criminal Court.

Some however will say, and accurately that Western Civilization is crumbling or about to crumble. The Declining population of Native Europeans, the damage done to the United States under President Barack Obama, and the general moral decay of the west are seen as signs that perhaps the Anti-Christ will not come from the West, but from somewhere else.

Islam

Islam originated in the 7th century A.D. In this century the Sassanid Persian Empire was weakened from years of fighting the Byzantines. As such the Islamic tide overtook the Persians and the nation became part of the Islamic sphere.

Eventually even the Byzantine Empire fell to the Ottomon Turks centuries later, and soon the Islamic Empire had consumed over a half of what was once the Christian World.

Today Islam continues to expand. Muslim immigrants from the middle east will eventually outnumber native Europeans, as the immigrants believe in having large families, while the native population now tends to have few, if any, children. This means that the so-called "Eurabia" may be a reality within a few decades.

Many Muslims desire a caliphate, some also believe a messiah-like figure called the "Mahdi" or "12th Imam" is destined to appear and rule the world, conquering what is left in the name of Islam. This belief is usually found with Shiite, rather than Sunni Islam, but nevertheless is widespread.

Some belief that perhaps the Antichrist will not be of western decent or bent, but rather Islamic. Perhaps the Islamic end times beliefs are a dark mirror of the Bible, and the Mahdi of Islam is in fact the Antichrist spoken of in Daniel and Revelation.

There seems to be a lot of weight to this theory. The fact is that the Bible always centers around the Middle East, and especially, Israel. So an Anti-Christ of Middle-Eastern decent may not be out of the realm of possibility.

Let us look at some verses which describe some of the qualities of the Anti-Christ and his activities:

Dan 11:36-39 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge [and] increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

The Satanic Paradigm

Now to me, these verses indicate that whoever the Anti-Christ is, he has forsaken belief in the religion practices by his father and forefathers, instead considering himself not only a god, but exalting himself to a level that only God himself deserves to be exalted to.

It is not so simple however, to state this man of lawlessness is a god-king like the Pharoahs of Egypt and rulers of other places. According to the above verses the Anti-Christ will honor a god of forces unknown to his ancestors, giving precious metals to this god.

Rev 13:1 ¶ And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It is worth mentioning that a similar description is given to the dragon(satan). So who is the strange god the anti-christ honors? The devil himself.

Not only according to the above verses will the devil be honored by the Anti-christ, but because of the success the Anti-Christ has in war and most likely his great following, the devil will be worshiped as well as the antichrist.

Any thoughts?

[1whowaits]

I would agree that the 'god of forces' that the AC honors is likely Satan, and as Satan gives his power and authority to the AC Satan likely inhabits the AC, so the worship of Satan/AC is the real religion during the GT. But is that religion cloaked in something else, does it appear to be something else prior to the GT and during the GT?

Islam is a consideration but the description of the AC in Dan 11 would appear to be contrary to Islam, no mulsim can set himself over Allah or declare himself god and remain a muslim, he would be going against the tenets of Islam. And if he did so the faithful muslims would reject him as they realized that he would be an apostate worthy of death. And in Dan 11 the AC attacks muslim countries and conquers them, suggesting that the AC is not a muslim.

A Marxist or socialist? Those who adhere to those beliefs are ususally atheistic or agnostic, they would not worship a god of forces.

The scripture does paint a partial picture of what the AC may be involved with prior to and after the AOD. The AC honors a god of forces, likely Satan, but also declares himself to be above all gods, which could be a contradiction. But if the AC were inhabited by the 'god', then the AC could declare himself as a god above all gods because the god he honors lives within him, he is the god himself. So the religion could have some belief that the human vessel is inhabited by a superior being which makes the human god.

This appears to be reinforced in Rev 17 which describes the 'beast', a reference to the AC, as coming from the Abyss. The Abyss is the abode of fallen angels and demons and there is no indication that any men inhabit the Abyss, suggesting that the AC is possessed by a demon or fallen angel who gives him supernatural power, most likely Satan himself.

The beast is also described as having a cessation of existence 'he once was, now is not, and yet will come' in Rev 17. So the beast/AC appears to associated with existence and then non-existence and then existence again, perhaps a resurrection of sorts, which the AC is associated with (seemed to have a fatal head wound...wounded by the sword and yet lived..Rev 13).

The beast/AC also has an association with a woman, a 'queen' (i sit as a queen....Rev 18), who is associated with adultery. So is there a religion associated with a human inhabited by a 'god' who himself becomes a 'god' who is resurrected, who comes form the abyss, who is associated with a queen? There may be.

There is what is described as the 'mystery religion' that goes back through many cultures over thousands of years. It appears to have begun at the time of Nimrod, the ancient hunter and builder of Babel and other cities. Semiramis was the wife of Nimrod, and she had a son called Tammuz, and when Nimrod died she stated that Nimrod later became the sun god and inhabited Tammuz, and she married Tammuz (semiramis and those who represented(Isis) her were called the 'queen of heaven').

The religion developed around Tammuz dying and going to the underworld (called the Abyss) and being resurrected on a repeated basis (being called Tammuz from the Abyss), inhabiting the leaders of nations. This religion continued through the Sumerians, Assyrians, Egyptians (Osiris), Babylonians, Greeks and Romans (some believe Apollo represented Tammuz- Apollyon from the Abyss?).

Scripture does mention some of the Jewish people participating in this religion, 'mourning for Tammuz' (Ezek 8), and it has been practiced for a long period of time, and in the end it is Satan worship (Nimrod=Satan, inhabits a man, Tammuz). But is there a modern group that practices this religion, perhaps unknowingly on the part of many of its practioners?

I am just theorizing about this but there could be a group that may practice a form of this religon who may exert significant influence, who may be described in scripture as overthrowing the rulers of gentile nations- 'The Lord showed me four craftsmen...the craftsmen have come to terrify and throw down these horns of the nations...' Zech 1. Who are the craftsmen, those of the 'craft'?

[Sword of Geddon]

Some would argue the Roman Catholic Church would fit that description. The practice of praying to saints and/or mary is alarming to me.

However the RCC no longer has any power, the Reformation followed by the "Enlightenment" effectively neutralized the RCC's power.

The original Greek Sun god was Helios, the famous Colossus of Rhodes was a giant statue to this god. Apollo was a god of music, beauty, and archery, later however the two gods merged, and Apollo became the god of the sun. Apollo was called the shining one, so I assume that later the Greeks believed Helios to be just another aspect of this god.

If we look at the European "Enlightenment", you will see a time when Hellenistic art, architecture and philosophy became popular. This started in the Italian Renaissance, and spread to the rest of Europe.

Washington DC has many buildings which share the Neo-Hellenistic design and feel that many buildings constructed in the same time period(mid 1700s to mid 1800s).

One of the biggest things to come out of the "Enlightenment" was Humanism. Humanism has many forms, but usually it takes the form of placing mankind in a position akin to God. This was actually what drove one of the leaders of the horrible French Revolution.

It seems that maybe the Anti-Christ would believe in Humanism, but the verses in question seems to suggest something else.

It could be that a small group today follows the Babylonian Religion. It is also possible that the faith is outright worship of satan himself, no longer hidden behind false religions and made up gods.

I believe that the tribulation is all about making a choice. For God or against God? As such I don't think it is not reasonable to assume that whatever the Anti-Christ's religion is, perhaps it isn't an existing religion.

Other than perhaps the RCC, I don't believe anything resembling the religion of ancient Sumeria exists today. However, I did read that the Tower of Babel started out of a desire for commerce/materialism.

[Jericho]

Some would argue the Roman Catholic Church would fit that description. The practice of praying to saints and/or mary is alarming to me.

However the RCC no longer has any power, the Reformation followed by the "Enlightenment" effectively neutralized the RCC's power.

The RCC is also into interfaithism which I see as a contender for the world religion, at least for the first 3-1/2 years. There seems to be two distinct religious systems during the tribulation, one for the first half and another for the second half. After the AC declares himself god he appears to do away with all the old religions and forces everyone to worship him. So the religion of the latter half is the worship of the AC\Satan.

As far as Islam goes I do believe it has a part to play, but that part ends after the battle of Gog & Magog. Some note that Shiite Islamic eschatology mirrors Christian eschatology, however there might be a good reason for that. It's very probable that Islamic eschatology was heavily influenced by Christian and Jewish sources who lived in Muslim lands.

The original Greek Sun god was Helios, the famous Colossus of Rhodes was a giant statue to this god. Apollo was a god of music, beauty, and archery, later however the two gods merged, and Apollo became the god of the sun. Apollo was called the shining one, so I assume that later the Greeks believed Helios to be just another aspect of this god.

Also interesting are the comparisons that can be made between the Nephilim of the bible and the Greek mythological Gods. The angel that comes out of the bottomless pit in Revelation is named Apollyon, which is comparable to the Greek god Apollo. Some speculate the AC will be a Nephilim. I don't know what to make of it, but I find it an interesting topic all the same.

However, I did read that the Tower of Babel started out of a desire for commerce/materialism.

I've read the Tower of Babel of Babel was an astrology tower and that is where we get our Zodic signs from. It's interesting that Nimrod is considered the the world's first dictator and tried to establish a world government. There's probably lots of parallels between Nimrod and the AC. It may very well end where it began, on the plain of Shinar.

[Sword of Geddon]

Good replies everyone. You have sharp minds.

I think it is interesting to point out that the Sumerians believed everything they knew was because of the gods. The name for the Sumerian gods was the Annunaki, I believe roughly translated that means "ones who fell from the sky/stars".

The Sumerians are believed by many anthropologists to be the world's first true civilization.

Perhaps then Nimrod was assisted by the devil and/or fallen angels. He is credited to have turned mankind away from worship of the one true God, since the time of Babel was not that long after Noah.

It is quite possible Nimrod is what we may have to expect in whoever the Anti-Christ turns out to be.

I believe the AC will have qualities of the following historical people(but is not limited to the following):

-Hitler: The Antichrist will hate the Jews and want their complete destruction, his empire will have a strong military, and they will probably have a symbol, like the swastika, representing their leader, empire, and ideology.

-Napoleon: Napoleon was a true military genius. He invaded other european nations under the claim of freeing surfs, and the people, from monarchies. In one painting he was depicted as a Sea-Serphent, attacking the ship of monarchy. Later he invaded the Vatican and wore the papal robes and crown in a true display of arrogance.

-Antiochus IV Epiphanes: Ruler of the Seleucid Empire from 175 BC until his death in 164 BC. He was the one who invaded Israel, placing a pig on the altar of the temple and a statue of Zeus in the holy of holies. I believe this was a partial fulfillment of a verse in daniel speaking of a similar desecration.

-Alexander the Great: Young ruler of Macedonia who succeeded his father, Phillip as King. He conquered the Greek city states, invaded and killed the last king of the Achaemenid Empire of Persia, liberated Egypt from Persian rule, and ultimately conquered a vast but short-lived empire stretching all the way to India.

-Akhenaten: The Antichrist will be a god-king, just as the pharaohs of Egypt were. The best example perhaps would be Akhenaten, who attempted to overthrow the existing religion of Egypt in favor of one centered on his god, Aten, the rays of the sun. Akhenaten allowed the other gods to continue to be worshiped, except for Ra, who Akhenaten hated and desired to completely replace with his god.

[1whowaits]

Sword, i would agree regarding Nimrod, Jewish tradtion has it that Nimrod was against God and the AC certainly will follow in those footsteps.

The RCC is a consideration, but it does appear to be on the wane. There may be another religion that at first does not appear to be a religon that could fit what scripture describes that is associated with the AC. I am just offering a theory that there could be something going on in the background laying the groundwork for the rule of the AC and Satan, something that is not immediately recognized.

It would appear that a rebuilt Jewish temple is associated with the AC, he stops the sacrifice but he does not destroy the temple, he sets himself up in it as god, he apparently believes there is some signficance to the Jewish temple. And there are 10 rulers that are associated with the AC, according to Rev they had not recieved a kingdom prior to their association with the AC, they are not necessarily rulers of nations prior to taking over at the time of the AOD. If they are not rulers of nations what are they rulers of? Could they be heads of an organization or religion?

And from Dan 2 it appears that there may be some association of the 10 rulers with the 10 toes that are associated with the Roman empire, the iron legs. Is there a religion or organization that could have some association with what scripture describes?

There may be 1, called the freemasons or masons. The origins of the masons is not known, the first recorded meetings were in Europe, but they claim earlier associations. The masons claim association with the builders of the temple of Solomon, and it is their desire to see that temple rebuilt, they value the temple. They also claim association with Nimrod, the earliest builder of cities.

The masons officially consider all religions equal, but they believe that the head being is the 'grand architect', which the lower level members are led to believe is God, but it appears that the upper levels members believe the grand architect is Satan the light bearer.

The masons perform rituals that the majority has no idea why they are done, but some appear to mirror the mystery religion of mourning for Tammuz. And it appears that the higher level masons perform rituals that promote the raising of Osiris/Tammuz to inhabit a current world leader. The Masons are called a 'secret society' but it appears that their rituals do mirror more of a religion.

I find the possibility that the 'mystery religion' being currently embodied in a secret organization like the masons interesting, and it could make some sense. The 10 rulers with the AC are not necessarily rulers of nations but it could be that they rule an orgainzation or religion. The masons refer to the coming of the of 7 under the sign of 3, the 7 are believed to be world govenors, 7 + 3 = 10.

Who rules the world now? Who rules Greece now, who influences the decisions of the governemnt, the PM or the bankers and creditors, organizations outside of the government? Is the policy of the US influenced by bankers and creditors, by organizations outside of the formal government? it is believed there are 3 million Masons the world over, and many are in governmental and banking positions.

And there is a religion that has adopted many of the rituals and symbolisims of the Masons, the Mormons. Are there any Mormons rising to influence and power at the current time?

I am not suggesting that all Masons are trying to take over the world or are worshipping a foreign god, many are well meaning and have no idea what the rituals of their society could be referring to. But such a society or religion would appear ripe for the influence of Satan, and if leaders of that group indicate that there is some association with Satan or ancient gods, the religion becomes suspect.

We look for the origins of the AC in religions like the RCC and Islam, but could the 'mystery religion' associated with the AC be more insidious and hidden? Something that is not obvious until the last moment?

And the Masons are known as those of the 'craft', they can be considered 'craftsmen', and Zech 1 does describe 4 craftsmen coming to overthrow the horns or rulers of nations. Considering the current world financial disarray, individual governments could be taken over by non-governmental orgainzations that later become 1 world government. Just theorizing.

[lamb7]

From the article: The True Meaning of Lent

http://www.thercg.org/articles/ttmol.html

(edited for copyright)

Lent just being on ritual that is based in ancient pagan beliefs and so it seems that there is a present day religion that incorporates some of the pagan rituals of Tammuz and most unknowingly.

[Sword of Geddon]

Well right now Mitt Romney is number one in polling for the Republican primary candidates, though it is still early and it is possible other people, like Rick Perry for example, will enter the race.

I actually considered the Freemasons as the religion of the AC. It would make complete sense considering the Anti-Christ has a great interest in the jewish temple, and the fact the Freemasons wish the Temple of Solomon rebuilt. Could it be that both the Jewish organizations in Israel and the masons want the same thing for totally(complete opposite) reasons?

Perhaps Islam was created by satan in order to serve as a distraction, a force opposing Israel, so that one day Israel would be taken over by the devil himself in the form of the AC, in an attempt to take what is God's.

The devil does seem to discard his "toys" when they are no longer useful to him(RCC, Nazis, ancient extinct religions).

[Douggg]

Sword, i would agree regarding Nimrod, Jewish tradtion has it that Nimrod was against God and the AC certainly will follow in those footsteps.

Hi 1ww, ahah, now you are getting somewhere. I am not saying like Nimrod, but Nimrod's spirit incarnating the future wounded and recovered Antichrist man.

The RCC is a consideration, but it does appear to be on the wane. There may be another religion that at first does not appear to be a religon that could fit what scripture describes that is associated with the AC. I am just offering a theory that there could be something going on in the background laying the groundwork for the rule of the AC and Satan, something that is not immediately recognized.

I would say that the RCC is the whore riding the beast associated with babylon.

It would appear that a rebuilt Jewish temple is associated with the AC, he stops the sacrifice but he does not destroy the temple, he sets himself up in it as god, he apparently believes there is some signficance to the Jewish temple. And there are 10 rulers that are associated with the AC, according to Rev they had not recieved a kingdom prior to their association with the AC, they are not necessarily rulers of nations prior to taking over at the time of the AOD. If they are not rulers of nations what are they rulers of? Could they be heads of an organization or religion?

Well, I think you might want to read that verse Revelation 17:12 again. The ten kings had not come to power at the time of John. They rule with the Antichrist beast for one hour a short amount of time agreed, but the ten kings have to be in collective kingdom BEFORE the Antichrist little horn comes up amongst them (Daniel 7). Okay, I am being picky...

Think EU. Formed out of Rome. But does not have the ideology of Rome, but Nimrod's Babylon, many languages one voice, parliament building fashioned as the the tower of Babel.

And from Dan 2 it appears that there may be some association of the 10 rulers with the 10 toes that are associated with the Roman empire, the iron legs. Is there a religion or organization that could have some association with what scripture describes?

There may be 1, called the freemasons or masons. The origins of the masons is not known, the first recorded meetings were in Europe, but they claim earlier associations. The masons claim association with the builders of the temple of Solomon, and it is their desire to see that temple rebuilt, they value the temple. They also claim association with Nimrod, the earliest builder of cities.

Interesting regarding their association with Nimrod. The Antichrist man may be a mason. Some claim that masonry has roots to Judaism's kaballah. The Antichrist man, imo, will be a Jew.

The masons officially consider all religions equal, but they believe that the head being is the 'grand architect', which the lower level members are led to believe is God, but it appears that the upper levels members believe the grand architect is Satan the light bearer.

The masons perform rituals that the majority has no idea why they are done, but some appear to mirror the mystery religion of mourning for Tammuz. And it appears that the higher level masons perform rituals that promote the raising of Osiris/Tammuz to inhabit a current world leader. The Masons are called a 'secret society' but it appears that their rituals do mirror more of a religion.

I find the possibility that the 'mystery religion' being currently embodied in a secret organization like the masons interesting, and it could make some sense. The 10 rulers with the AC are not necessarily rulers of nations but it could be that they rule an orgainzation or religion. The masons refer to the coming of the of 7 under the sign of 3, the 7 are believed to be world govenors, 7 + 3 = 10.

Ultimately though, the Antichrist beast's religion will be a counterfeit trinity of Anti-Christianity.

Who rules the world now? Who rules Greece now, who influences the decisions of the governemnt, the PM or the bankers and creditors, organizations outside of the government? Is the policy of the US influenced by bankers and creditors, by organizations outside of the formal government? it is believed there are 3 million Masons the world over, and many are in governmental and banking positions.

The mystery of Babylon the Great is that it eventually swallows up the entire world to become like Nimrod's Babylon. It looks like the vehicle for the transformation is beginning right now with the EU debt crisis and contagion.

And there is a religion that has adopted many of the rituals and symbolisims of the Masons, the Mormons. Are there any Mormons rising to influence and power at the current time?

I am not suggesting that all Masons are trying to take over the world or are worshipping a foreign god, many are well meaning and have no idea what the rituals of their society could be referring to. But such a society or religion would appear ripe for the influence of Satan, and if leaders of that group indicate that there is some association with Satan or ancient gods, the religion becomes suspect.

Maybe.

We look for the origins of the AC in religions like the RCC and Islam, but could the 'mystery religion' associated with the AC be more insidious and hidden? Something that is not obvious until the last moment?

And the Masons are known as those of the 'craft', they can be considered 'craftsmen', and Zech 1 does describe 4 craftsmen coming to overthrow the horns or rulers of nations. Considering the current world financial disarray, individual governments could be taken over by non-governmental orgainzations that later become 1 world government. Just theorizing.

Masonry and Noahidism have some things in common. That is both say a person is righteous if he or she worships one God. Which if the Antichrist man were a Jew, and be a false messiah to the Jews, the rabbi's are pushing Noahidism for the rest of the world, so his masonic thinking would fit in if he were a mason. Of course, masons say that they are not a religion. Which is not true, but they are an umbrella which all religions fit, as long as the religion recognize the GAOTU (Grand Architect of the Universe), which is essentially the same as Noahidism.

Doug L.

[Douggg]

Perhaps Islam was created by satan in order to serve as a distraction, a force opposing Israel, so that one day Israel would be taken over by the devil himself in the form of the AC, in an attempt to take what is God's.

The devil does seem to discard his "toys" when they are no longer useful to him(RCC, Nazis, ancient extinct religions).

Hi Sword, all false religions come from Satan. The spirit of Antichrist and the mystery of iniquity that were already at work according to both Paul and John in their day is that it says that Jesus is not the messiah.

Islam is another of Satan's false religion, in the spirit of Antichrist, because it denies the Father and the Son, and lies about who Jesus the Christ is, in the Muslim Isa version of Jesus.

Doug L.

[Sword of Geddon]

Perhaps Islam was created by satan in order to serve as a distraction, a force opposing Israel, so that one day Israel would be taken over by the devil himself in the form of the AC, in an attempt to take what is God's.

The devil does seem to discard his "toys" when they are no longer useful to him(RCC, Nazis, ancient extinct religions).

Hi Sword, all false religions come from Satan. The spirit of Antichrist and the mystery of iniquity that were already at work according to both Paul and John in their day is that it says that Jesus is not the messiah.

Islam is another of Satan's false religion, in the spirit of Antichrist, because it denies the Father and the Son, and lies about who Jesus the Christ is, in the Muslim Isa version of Jesus.

Doug L.

I know that, i was just saying maybe Islam has a special or significant role to play in the forefillment of prophecy. For example perhaps the Gog-Magog war, started by muslim nations and perhaps led by a muslim leader could trick Christians that the war is armageddon, or that Gog is the antichrist.

So that later when the true Antichrist appears, some believers are deceived.

[Douggg]

Perhaps Islam was created by satan in order to serve as a distraction, a force opposing Israel, so that one day Israel would be taken over by the devil himself in the form of the AC, in an attempt to take what is God's.

The devil does seem to discard his "toys" when they are no longer useful to him(RCC, Nazis, ancient extinct religions).

Hi Sword, all false religions come from Satan. The spirit of Antichrist and the mystery of iniquity that were already at work according to both Paul and John in their day is that it says that Jesus is not the messiah.

Islam is another of Satan's false religion, in the spirit of Antichrist, because it denies the Father and the Son, and lies about who Jesus the Christ is, in the Muslim Isa version of Jesus.

Doug L.

I know that, i was just saying maybe Islam has a special or significant role to play in the forefillment of prophecy. For example perhaps the Gog-Magog war, started by muslim nations and perhaps led by a muslim leader could trick Christians that the war is armageddon, or that Gog is the antichrist.

So that later when the true Antichrist appears, some believers are deceived.

Hi Sword, yes, you got a point (no-one here I would think though) especially Catholics and denominations that don't stress bible prophecy. I have been over at the Christianity.com discussion board yesterday/and early this morning and made about 4 or 5 posts. It is a Catholic site. I don't think they are nearly as advanced in bible prophecy as the posters at this site.

Doug L.

[Sword of Geddon]

American Catholics, especially from the east coast, tend to be the "cafeteria catholics" and as such many are not serious about their faith, some I knew years ago even only went to church because it was like a social club, and he expressed agnostic views about God.

So it doesn't surprise me that that site has posters like that.

I orginally actually posted there before I discovered this board.

[1whowaits]

Doug, as far as Nimrod and the AC, some believe that Nimrod was a Nephilium, a human/fallen angel hybrid. It is believed that the spirits of the Nephilium are the beings called demons, they are different from fallen angels and seek out bodies to posses or they reside in the Abyss. So if the spirit/demon of Nimrod were to posses the AC, a demon that comes from the Abyss, then there would be an association between Nimrod and the AC, and the beast from the Abyss would be one who once was, now is not, and will be again.

The interesting thing about the Masons that differentiates them somewhat is that they want the temple rebuilt. And the rebuilding of the temple could be a goal of Satan as Isa 14 may suggest- 'I will sit enthroned on the mount of the assembly, on the utmost height of the sacred mountain...'. While this could be a reference to a mount in heaven, it can also be a reference to the temple mount in Jerusalem, Satan wishes to sit enthroned on the temple mount, which he could do if he possessed the AC. So the Masons could fulfill the goal of Satan by bringing events to occur which would result in the rebuilding of the temple.

As far as the 10 kings/horns associated with the AC, Rev 17 states- 'The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.' From this statement it would appear that the 10 do not receive authority as kings until the AC does, which would appear to be the 3.5 years of the GT. The 10 may have some authority, but they are not kings or rulers of the kingdom or any country, they do not have the authority of kings, until the AC receives his authority. If they are not kings of nations prior to the GT, they do not have the authority of kings prior to the GT, then what are they? The AC receives authority and power from Satan, could it be that the 10 are some part of Satan's kingdom, his servants to which he gives authority, rather than kings of nations, which could rule out the EU? (who for 1 hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast) Who gives the AC authority? (The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority)

So those who facilitate the coming of kingdom of Satan/AC could be rewarded, those who practice his religion. And the Masons appear to wish to facilitate the coming of the spirit of Nimrod/Tammuz/Osiris in to the body of a human, who will then lead the world into 'enlightenment'. And they believe that the rebuilding of the temple will facilitate the arrival of this enlightenment.

[1whowaits]

Sword, i would agree with you, although Islam is a religion of Satan, it is not the final form that will be in place during the GT, and likely will be used as a 'false flag' deception.

I would theorize the following scenario-- it appears likely that Gog-Magog occurs around the beginning of the week, and nations, the majority of which are currently muslim, come to loot and plunder Israel. That they come to loot and plunder could suggest that there is a period of economic and politcal upheaval prior to Gog which would necessitate loot and plunder. Gog could then be seen as the AC, the muslims as the religion and followers of the AC, and Gog-Magog would be seen as armageddon, clearing the way for the one who was to come.

After Gog, Israel turns to God and rebuilds the temple, and a Jewish leader arises that begins that process. It does appear likely that gentile nations would assist in the rebuilding, possibly motivated by someone or some group. That gentile group could facilitate the temple rebuilding and develop a relationship with that Jewish leader. It is interesting that it is believed that the masons have some association with the Knights Templar who may have recovered some of the temple aritfacts during the crusades, along with great wealth.

Satan is then cast down to earth prior to the AOD, and this group facilitates a relationship between the arriving alien/god and the Jewish leader. And the leaders of this group then receive authority along with the Jewish leader/AC for the time of Satan's kingdom.

So to get the sceario started, there would appear to be a need for a period of economic and political chaos resulting in the gentile nations seeking to loot and plunder Israel. Perhaps some group wishes to facilitate the occurance of such events, and it is interesting that Zech 1 describes the 'craftsmen' as being the ones who terrify and overthrow the horns, or leaders, of the gentile nations.

[Sword of Geddon]

I see the upheaval in the middle east and north africa as possibly leading to the alliance of gog-magog. The focus on taking Israel's wealth could possibly be linked to the massive discoveries of oil in the last two years within Israel, also it be motivated by the Muslim's hatred of Israel and Jews, most likely a combination of the two.

I actually read about the Knights Templar. They were renowned for their success in battling Muslims in the middle east, eventually they pledged allegence to the King of Jerusalem, of the short-lived Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem. In return the Knights Templar received their own land and gathered a great amount of wealth. Years later the monarchs of Europe grew jealious of the wealth the Knights Templar possessed, and the Pope even feared their growing influence. So the monarchs of europe eventually slaughtered the Knights Templar in great numbers. The remaining Knights who survived the purges pledged allegiance to the Pope.

So believe some of the Knights Templar went underground after the purges, and founded the beginnings of the Freemasons.

[Douggg]

Doug, as far as Nimrod and the AC, some believe that Nimrod was a Nephilium, a human/fallen angel hybrid. It is believed that the spirits of the Nephilium are the beings called demons, they are different from fallen angels and seek out bodies to posses or they reside in the Abyss. So if the spirit/demon of Nimrod were to posses the AC, a demon that comes from the Abyss, then there would be an association between Nimrod and the AC, and the beast from the Abyss would be one who once was, now is not, and will be again.

Hi 1www, Nimrod's father was Cush, but he could have some Nephilim blood in him through his mother. I believe that Nimrod is the one who's spirit is in the bottomless pit because of his tie to the tower of Babel, and he was an Assyrian, and false religions (abomination) are supposedly traced back to his Babylon, and he is the original of all the people of the world set against God. If he does incarnate the mortally wounded and recovered Antichrist man, it seems that he would pick up where he left off.

The interesting thing about the Masons that differentiates them somewhat is that they want the temple rebuilt. And the rebuilding of the temple could be a goal of Satan as Isa 14 may suggest- 'I will sit enthroned on the mount of the assembly, on the utmost height of the sacred mountain...'. While this could be a reference to a mount in heaven, it can also be a reference to the temple mount in Jerusalem, Satan wishes to sit enthroned on the temple mount, which he could do if he possessed the AC. So the Masons could fulfill the goal of Satan by bringing events to occur which would result in the rebuilding of the temple.

I am kinda rusty on the Masons. But I don't think that Satan will actually possesses the Antichrist man, although Satan empowers him. It is more likely that Satan will incarnate the statue image of the Antichrist, which will be the AOD and placed in the temple.

As far as the 10 kings/horns associated with the AC, Rev 17 states- 'The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.'

That "not yet" part means not at John's time.

From this statement it would appear that the 10 do not receive authority as kings until the AC does, which would appear to be the 3.5 years of the GT.

It does not mean they are not kings before hand, but the beast gives them authority as kings in his Nimrod one world kingdom for that final 42 months.

The 10 may have some authority, but they are not kings or rulers of the kingdom or any country, they do not have the authority of kings, until the AC receives his authority. If they are not kings of nations prior to the GT, they do not have the authority of kings prior to the GT, then what are they?

I think you are misunderstanding, they don't have authority in the beast's kingdom aforehand because the beast's kingdom doesn't come into place until the miraculous recovery of the mortally wounded Antichrist man, the seventh head. Which in the beast's kingdom, the central theme is that the world believes the beast is God.

As the Antichrist man, the little horn in Daniel 7, before he confirms the covenant with many, he comes up among ten existing kings of the fourth kingdom. It says that the little horn comes up AFTER the ten kings Daniel 7:24 below. It is not a contradiction of Revelation 17, because one has to consider the little horn at that stage is not the beast. continuing...

The ten kings are already kings, but the EU is not a one world kingdom at that point, it is the fourth kingdom, the end times Roman empire. Even so, even now, the EU with their mystery Babylon ideology, signified by their tower of Babel parliament building, is pointing them in that one world direction.

-And eventually that EU ideology of mystery Babylon the Great, Nimrod's tower of Babel, will devour the whole earth as it says in Daniel 7:23 below. And when that happens Nimrod (imo) will be at the helm.

And with the lastest financial crisis in the EU, there will probably emerge some sort of official Global financial system, not yet existing. Even then that would not be the beast's kingdom, because the beast kingdom is not only one world, but it has one leader, incarnated by Nimrod, who claims to be, and will be worshiped as God. Please consider the ten kings, the fourth empire, the little horn, the beast, the beast's kingdom in terms of progression. How this thing is going to develop out. The prophecies are a thing of motion, a moving picture. I am so thankful that God decided to share them with us.

23Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The AC receives authority and power from Satan, could it be that the 10 are some part of Satan's kingdom, his servants to which he gives authority, rather than kings of nations, which could rule out the EU? (who for 1 hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast) Who gives the AC authority? (The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority)

They are the same ten EU kings that emerges the little horn among, except he removes and replaces three of them. The three replacements could be different than EU origin, once the beast's kingdom comes into place. I could see that possibility.

So those who facilitate the coming of kingdom of Satan/AC could be rewarded, those who practice his religion. And the Masons appear to wish to facilitate the coming of the spirit of Nimrod/Tammuz/Osiris in to the body of a human, who will then lead the world into 'enlightenment'. And they believe that the rebuilding of the temple will facilitate the arrival of this enlightenment.

I have no disagreement that the ten kings will buy in that the Antichrist beast is God. I don't know that I would extend Masonic doctrine would take them that far. I could be wrong of course. The basic Masonic requirement is that a person believe in one God, one Supreme Being, whether it is the god of Muslims, Christians, Jews, any form of monotheism.. However, I have heard that at the 33rd degree, Masons are told a blasphemous revelation that I don't want to repeat, it is so ridiculous and insane.

Doug L.

[Douggg]

I have been watching the Europeans on how they have been handling the debt crisis in Europe. The Germans, who some people think can step in and save the rest of Europe, don't have the financial resources to do so. I was watching MSNBC business channel and one of the commentator was explaining the debt crisis said referring to the adage of "kicking the can down the road", meaning pushing the problem off to the future, that road is coming to a dead end in a couple of months.

Now what is our congress doing about our own debt crisis - well they go on vacation of course, . Not to be out done the President is on vacation as well. So are the European leaders. Rome is burning and Caesar is playing the fiddle.

What our congress should be doing is being in session, working 24 hrs a day, in three shifts to reduce the spending, and rewriting the tax code.... Right now they have 6 members of congress as the super committee that is supposed to come up with proposed cuts. Well they have 400+ congressmen and 100 senators. Why can't we have 3 supper committees (that's right "supper" committees, they can eat on the job), working 24, 7's, 8 hr shifts. That is still only 18 out of 500 . What are the rest of them doing? They find plenty of time to be on TV "talking the problem to death", well, not the last week or so because they have been on vacation .

Our President, not to be outdone, is vacationing himself and touring around in the USA1 motorhome, on government funds, of course - campaigning. The motorhome, black wilth black windows (to be inconspicuous I guess ) only cost $2million. Maybe that is why social security is...don't get me started . Wait a minute, he is not campaigning, my error....

...but out listening to the people, unlike those bone head congressman and senators, blaming congress for "political" agenda in not solving the budget crisis, unlike him of course - It is just sad . Everyone can see right through that. Well, we wanted more transparency in the financial system and Government; now we got it......

Back to the matter at hand. It seems to me that the financial situation in Europe, weighing in on the world, just look at our stock market, is ripe for the Antichrist man; and what is going on in Syria is going setup some sort of alliance for the ten countries of the Psalms 83 war. It is what I would call convergence. Fortunately, the real King is coming, too. Praise God for that!

Doug L.

[burien1]

Fortunately, the real King is coming, too. Praise God for that!

Doug L.

"On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand,
. . .All other ground is sinking sand."

[Sword of Geddon]

I(along with a whole lot of other people I imagine) was very disturbed by the extent Obama's supporters were willing to go. He was called the messiah, had greek temples as backgrounds for his speechs, had numberious magazine articles depicting him as a divine being. Children sung his praises, some even called him "Alpha and Omega".

Back in 2008 and early 2009 saying anything against Obama would get you ridicule.

I think to myself now..it seems the people around the world then were looking for a savior, and not Jesus Christ. The world is ready for the Antichrist.

[Ready1]

Interesting Time Magazine Cover

[Sword of Geddon]

The cover is sad, yet true. When the nations of Europe turned their backs on Christianity and God in favor of Humanism and multiculturalism, they sealed their own fate. It was only a matter of time before European Pluralism lead to Islam coming in.

[laney]

Same goes for America.

[Mrs. B]

The Antichrist: Islamic, Marxist, or something else?


Jesus said....If it were possible even the very elect would be deceived......

Do we have more faith in our goverment or in the Goverment of Jesus?

We trust more in social security then we trust what Jesus has promised...

If you have lost your job........did not God in unusual ways take care of you?

The a/c spirit is a substitute for not trusting Jesus...
We have more faith in ourselves then we do Jesus...
a/c is a substitute for not trusting Jesus......

Tribulations is for our Good.......to cause us to look to Jesus and not our job or some goverment provision..
now don't take me wrong.......I see the goverment taking care of us......but which do we look too the most..
goverment or Jesus...
Jesus can use goverment...but it is according to our faith
If you loose your job .....it is because it is God teaching us that He is Our Source....not world systems
We need to Trust Jesus....totally He is Our God...The all sufficient one......
He has bought us healing by His strips on His Back......we are healed by our Faith.
He will feed us one day at a time as we Look to Him...
The Isralites in the desert.......forty years he fed them supernatural
how much will he feed us in these last days......daily
He must become our God.....our provider, or healer, our all sufficient one...
Jesus is seated at the righthand of God.....making intercession for us the Believer.....
what ever you ask in My Name......and doubt not.....it is possible....Jesus Must be Our Lord and Provider.
any substitute is a/c
He is the all sufficient one and He wants to make Himself know to us by using our Faith and Trutsing Him.....
He will come to you in the form of your need......Look to Him not some leader or goverment

Mrs. B

[Yogi]

The anti-Christ will NOT be Islamic. We can plainly read that he blasphemes anything that is even called God. That would include Allah.

Marxist/ socialist? Now you are talking. He will (as is already prevalent in Europe) make the case for being non religious. It will help to often remind people of "how many wars are fought because of religion."

I see this man as a mocker on steroids, NOT some man of peace that everyone just loves.

[water]

The anti-Christ will NOT be Islamic. We can plainly read that he blasphemes anything that is even called God. That would include Allah.

I would not be so sure. Per scriptures, the world does not recognize the AC for who he is until he is revealed. Once revealed, he claims to be god...clearly filled with Satan's spirit.

[Tevye]

The Antichrist: Islamic, Marxist, or something else?...

If we read Daniel chapter 11 systematically then we would see that
Antiochus IV Epiphanes was not just 'a type' or a foreshadow of Antichrist
but that he was and will be Antichrist, (the beast) who was, is not, and will be.
From Antiochus forward to the end of chapter 11 there is no new king
who is said to suceed Antiochus IV Epiphanes.
Seeing that he is the final king of Daniel 11
we would know he must be, 'the king' who...

"At the appointed time... will invade the South again"
...and be the king who...
"...will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god
and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods.
He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed,..."
(from Daniel 11)

The prophecy, the story of the kings and kingdoms of Daniel chapter 11
begin and lead us through a progression of kings ending with a king who
is "a contemptible person who has not been given the honor of royalty."

In Revelation the Beast (Antichrist) is known to be held in the Abyss
and in conjunction with the whole story of Daniel 11 we see that he will
"at the appointed time" come up from the Abyss and be once again.

How will this be? We may not see it happen but, it is the only viable solution
to the question of who was, is not, and who will once again be... Antichrist.

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss
and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written
in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast,
because he once was, now is not, and yet will come." - Revelation chapter 17

[Sword of Geddon]

If you look threwout history there has been many antichrists of various types.

These are perhaps the major ones threwout history:

Nimrod/Gilgamesh.......Akhenaten......Antiochus......Nero......

I'd also consider Marx and Nietzsche to be antichrists.

[drdos]

If you look threwout history there has been many antichrists of various types.

These are perhaps the major ones threwout history:

Nimrod/Gilgamesh.......Akhenaten......Antiochus......Nero......

I'd also consider Marx and Nietzsche to be antichrists.

Hitler....

[Jericho]

If you look threwout history there has been many antichrists of various types.

These are perhaps the major ones threwout history:

Nimrod/Gilgamesh.......Akhenaten......Antiochus......Nero......

I'd also consider Marx and Nietzsche to be antichrists.

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1Jo 2:18

I've heard it speculated that Satan has a man ready every generation to be a contender for "The" Antichrist.

[Douggg]

If you look threwout history there has been many antichrists of various types.

These are perhaps the major ones threwout history:

Nimrod/Gilgamesh.......Akhenaten......Antiochus......Nero......

I'd also consider Marx and Nietzsche to be antichrists.

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1Jo 2:18

I've heard it speculated that Satan has a man ready every generation to be a contender for "The" Antichrist.

Do you know what the Jews (Judaism) believes? They believe that God has in every generation someone who has the potential to become the moshiach.

I don't know what the speculation that Satan has a man ready in every generation is based on, because the man of sin is not going to be born into this world until all of the other end times prophecies come together.

Doug

[Sword of Geddon]

In Revelation it states that the first beast(the antichrist/man of lawlessness and his government) rises from the sea. This passage occurs after many major judgements occur.

If the world markets collapse and there is an effort to form a world government would that mean that is the beginning of the antichrist government? Perhaps it is the skeleton of the beast as it were...an incomplete version of what will come later.

So I forgot hitler in that "list" he definitely is on there.

[drdos]

If you look threwout history there has been many antichrists of various types.

These are perhaps the major ones threwout history:

Nimrod/Gilgamesh.......Akhenaten......Antiochus......Nero......

I'd also consider Marx and Nietzsche to be antichrists.

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1Jo 2:18

I've heard it speculated that Satan has a man ready every generation to be a contender for "The" Antichrist.

Do you know what the Jews (Judaism) believes? They believe that God has in every generation someone who has the potential to become the moshiach.

I don't know what the speculation that Satan has a man ready in every generation is based on, because the man of sin is not going to be born into this world until all of the other end times prophecies come together.

Doug

(1Jn 4:3) "But every person who doesn't declare that Jesus Christ has come as a human has a spirit that isn't from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that you have heard is coming. That spirit is already in the world".