Luke 14:26

[Ann]

26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it— 29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

What does this mean? Particularly if you have children. I understand the concept of hating our own lives and dieing to ourselves, but I don't understand how to apply that to our children.

[GodsStudent]

Hi Ann: As I cried my way through a few hymns yesterday, hating myself for not loving the Lord as much as I love certain sins, and because I am worried that my husband who isn't even working out his own salvation in fear and trembling.....(Phl 2: 12) but rather thinks he can do church and that will take care of it.....not often speaking of the Lord, not often picking up His Word and getting filled with the Wisdom of the Lord......

As I talk with my mother last night and mention the market to wit she says "Oh, it's going to come back up. That's nothing to need to think about."

As I rear a manipulative child who behaves just like I did when I was a child....perfect within my ear shot, but as I walked by her room (she and her friend were in her room with the door closed), I hear the two of them swearing and talking "fresh".....


I listened to a woman in church talking about the fact that her daughter had no love for the Lord. She mentioned that on the day her daughter got married to the man she had been living with, she herself was at home raking her yard and wiping tears from her eyes.

I feel I have given real life applications to that scripture. The Lord will not change or slack up His requirements based on the fact that "everybody" is doing "it" whatever "it" may be. We must hate "it" in our lives and the lives of others in favor of obedience to the Lord, and our love for Him....

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

These are the Lord's standards for us and for everyone we love.

[AndCanItBe]

I think it means that even your closest earthly relationships cannot come before obedience to Christ. If any of those people ask you to do something that would cause you to disobey Christ, you must obey Christ, even if it means the relationship with any of those people suffers or is severed as a result.

[Ann]

Godsstudent, you're right. It can be heart wrenching to watch your loved ones go down the wrong path, because you know where that path leads to. It can be tempting to become bitter with God for allowing this to happen. So I can see how we would need to lay our children on the alter in order to be free from all that pain, anxiety and anger.

My situation is this, I'm a protective parent. Ok maybe a little over protective. Ok maybe a lot. But I also love the Lord and want to help people get saved. Well right now there are 3-4 people in my life who all want me to let my daughter spend more time with them (neighbors, family members, but particularly my child's biological father who gave her up for adoption a long time ago, he is now back in the picture) but none of these people are Christians, and the way they live their lives is the exact opposite of how I am teaching my kids how to live. The bio dad is an open pot smoker/potty mouth/rebellious hates cops... Well I love all these people and I pray for them and really want them all to be saved. I would walk across burning coals and broken glass if that would help them get saved. But, these people (including him) are all frustrated and offended that I won't let them take my daughter whenever or wherever they please. Neighbors wonder why my daughter cant spend the night over there, certain family members are mad at me because I wont just hand her over whenever they ask. But the thing is that I would go hang out with them, I would be their friend just to witness to them and love them. Jesus was a friend of sinners. So does that mean that I should give my daughter up to whoever asks to take her? Where do I draw the line? I know these people are going to tempt her and lead her away from the Lord. DO I just "hate" her and hand her over to please these people so that they will like me and get saved?

It's not easy for me to say no, especially to the bio dad. When we were dating a long time ago, I believed in God but he didn't. I got saved during that time and I prayed and prayed and prayed for that man and one day he decided to go to church with me. He cried during the sermon and went up front at the alter call. He said the prayer and "got saved" but then the next day he ran off with his friends and went on a drug binge. And when he came back he didn't believe in God anymore. He asked me if I would marry him and I said yes, only if he becomes a real Christian and gives up his sins. He said no and took off. That was pretty much the last I heard of him for 6 years. Then he called out of the blue a few months ago wanting to give me money and see his daughter. But he hasnt changed one bit. He's still all about the same things. But he was crying and saying that he regrets leaving her everyday. Legally I dont have to let him see her because he signed his rights away a long time ago, but I know that this COULD be an excellent opportunity to be a witness to him, and worse yet, what if I turn my back on him and all of his pain and end up HURTING the witness of God in his life? What if this is what he needs to open his heart again to God? What if this is his last chance? What if he goes to hell because I didnt "hate" my daughter and put her on the alter?

I have thought about compromising and letting him see her supervised or something like that, that I would be more comfortable with, but even then he will still be hurt and angry and feel like I'm keeping her from him and that would ruin my witness. So it seems like it's all or nothing. Do I throw common sense out the window and let him take her whenever he wants? Because that would be "hating" my daughter.... giving her up for the witness of God. Where do I draw the line? Or do I give it all up and not draw a line?

I'm willing to do whatever God wants me to. I'll hand my daughter over to evil people if He wants me to, I just need to be sure.

It feels like all these people are drowning and the only thing they will grab onto is my daughter but if I throw her out to them they'll just drown her too.

[watching]

Hi Ann,

Luke 14:26

If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

I do not believe that Christ literally wants us to hate the people that He knows we love the most.

Remember, Jesus also said to love our enemies.

Matthew 5:44

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

What I think that Jesus meant in Luke 14:26 is that in order for us to be Christ's DISCIPLE we must hate everything and everyone in this world, WHEN IT COMES TO FOLLOWING CHRIST, and be willing to give everything up and leave everyone behind in order to follow Christ.

However, as long as we are in this world, we also need to fulfill our duties, as a parent to our children, and as a child to our parents, etc. In fact, there are numerous scriptures in the Bible that explain how we should behave towards our family members.

So, as a parent, it is your job to protect your child, based on your best judgement, in regard to the situation.

Besides that, I do not know of any scriptures where God asks us to put our own children in harm's way for the sake of witnessing to others, WHO MAY NOT EVEN BE RECEPTIVE TO WHAT WE HAVE TO SAY, TO BEGIN WITH.

Also, keep in mind the following scriptures.

Matthew 18:10

Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Mark 9:42

And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Matthew 7:6

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

[Ann]

Yeah but what about a person who feels called to be a missionary in a dangerous part of the world, but they have children. They could say no because they want to protect their children, but wouldn't God say something like, "you do what I told you to do and let me protect your children"

[watching]

Hi Ann,

Here is what the scripture says:

Matthew 19:29

King James Version (KJV)

29And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

However, I don't know about taking your children with you, or sending your children out, in your place.

Of course, ultimately, this is your decision to make.

But, I will say one thing.

It is very important to take scripture in CONTEXT, and to be very careful that we are not MISAPPLYING scripture, or being deceived by anyone into misapplying the scripture.

I'm not saying that this is the case in your situation.

Because, obviously, I don't know the situation. But, even if I did, I do not have enough wisdom to be able to give you advice.

But, in any case, wasn't it by misapplying the scriptures, or taking them out of context, that Satan tried to tempt Christ?

Matthew 4:1-11

King James Version (KJV)

Matthew 4

1Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

11Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

This is just something to consider.

But, let me reiterate, that I don't know your situation, so I do not know what the correct answer is.

All I am saying is that we should be careful not to misapply scripture, by taking it out of context, or by incorrectly trying to apply it to our own situations.

When making a decision, we need to consider ALL of the scripture, as a whole, and not just zero in on one verse.

So, the short answer is:

[daffodyllady]

I have read that in the language of Jesus's day, it was normal to strengthen words to the ultimate degree, thus making translation difficult.

We need to get a sense of the culture and the main point of what Jesus taught concerning families. One hint of how he felt family should be treated, was how he treated his own mother.

Once, when Jesus's mother and brethren came to pull him away from his preaching, he said that anyone who did the will of God was his brother, and sister, and even his mother!
Another time, when they ran out of wine at the marriage in Cana, Jesus's mother came to him, asking him to help them. Jesus answered her, "Woman, what have I to do with you? My hour is not yet come."

Yet, when Jesus was on the cross, he spoke with great effort, overriding his pain, to make sure his most loving disciple was put in charge of taking care of his mother.

Therefore, even though Jesus at times may have looked like he hated his mother, he actually loved her more than he did his own self. He just loved doing the will of the Father so much more, that his love for his mother was nothing in comparison.

And that is what He requires of us.

[Ann]

thank you watching and daffodillady, very good points you make.

[Keeping Alert]

Yeah but what about a person who feels called to be a missionary in a dangerous part of the world, but they have children. They could say no because they want to protect their children, but wouldn't God say something like, "you do what I told you to do and let me protect your children"

Hi Ann,

You mentioned some very practical and authentic real life situations.

I have been teaching this and trying to live my life according to this principle - What would Glorify God most?

There are no hard and fast answers even for this missionary situation. We may say that it is glorifying to God to serve him on the mission field but is it? What if this missionary has an ailing mother needing his care at home? What would be glorifying?

In your situation, what would be glorifying to God in the way that you "protect" your daughter? On the surface, I would say that you are indeed glorifying God by protecting your daughter (I would do the same too - her bio-dad is just not the kind of character that I would like my daughter to be around with) but it is what God is revealing to you that would most glorify Him that is important.

Blessings,
KA

p.s. just to add, when you seek to Glorify God in whatever situation, you will experience a peace... if there is no peace, it is probably not glorifying to God... don't do it... (your daughter is your charge...)

[daffodyllady]

In my humble and personal opinion, I would say that the person who feels called to go as a missionary, but has children or ailing parents at home... should stay home and honor God by obedience in the thing he considers small.
After all, we are given the personal responsibility to care for those of our own household. If we leave them, because we have a feeling God wants us elsewhere, then we are elevating our "inner leading" over the clear Scripture.

[Keeping Alert]

In my humble and personal opinion, I would say that the person who feels called to go as a missionary, but has children or ailing parents at home... should stay home and honor God by obedience in the thing he considers small.
After all, we are given the personal responsibility to care for those of our own household. If we leave them, because we have a feeling God wants us elsewhere, then we are elevating our "inner leading" over the clear Scripture.

Hi daffodyllady, while your humble and personal opinion makes much sense, but the answer is incomplete because it removes God from the equation where God may have a plan for us to go despite of all the things that have "legitimate" reasons to hold us back.

Look back at all the Martyrs for God of past ages. I don't know about their home situation or background but I am sure that at least some must have children and ailing parents that we have the God-given mandate to take care of them. Yet, they felt a call so great they could not ignore and left them all.

These martyrs died but was all lost? We must always remember that God can use the good times and the bad times all for His glory. Despite of our sinful and foolish ways, yet God has His way and accomplishes His purpose. God's name was glorified in the death of His martyrs... just as God was glorified in the death of Job's children (was God unjust in letting those innocent children die for a game of dare from Satan?)

So let me say categorically, that your humble opinion could be both right or wrong. It all depends on what God would want us do at that situation because it is all about His Glory. That is what all the "hate your parents" passage in the bible is all about. We do not live our lifes for our parents, nay, not even for ourselves. We live for Christ so that He may be Glorified!

Blessings,
KA

[daffodyllady]

KA, with all due respect, I do not think that obeying the written Word is leaving God out of the picture. I do believe that there have been instances on record where families have opposed a son or daughter going on the mission field, and God removed the opposing family member. However, I have never heard of God's blessing being shown for leaving children to grow up without parental oversight while the parents went off to do God's work elsewhere. I believe the Bible is clear: Parents are to train their children. Husbands are to be the leader in the home. Adult children are responsible to care for elderly parents. These are written instructions. If we feel God is telling us something different from the Written Word, then we are on dangerous ground. Therein lies all heresy.

[Keeping Alert]

26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it— 29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Hi daffodyllady,

No one is saying to disobey God's Word.

What do you do with these verses? Are they also not expressed commandments written clearly in the Word of God?

I think the issue that Ann (and we on a daily basis) faces is not that she does not know the Word of God but is in a difficult situation where God's Word has something to say that seems to pull her in all directions.

The person that seeks to Glorify God is not someone who goes on a gut feel. He knows the bible inside out and is extremely close to God. Consider Jesus... was Jesus disobedient to have stayed back in the temple without telling his parents? Did Jesus not caused his parents to worry when he went about preaching against the authorities of that day? Jesus did not live in a vacuum. He had parents too and his parents must have given him advice and such and Jesus chose to listen or not. But Jesus had only one guiding principle when said presummably hurtful things like "Who is my mother?" when his parents were outside seeking his audience - that is for the Glory of God His Father.

It is a tough prinicple to teach. I am at no time saying we disobey the Word of God. The Word says Honor Your Parents but it also says that we are to Love God with All our hearts, mind and soul and strength. I have heard that the early missionaries never thought of being able to return back alive or back to their homeland once they set forth on their missions. Were they unfilial? I think the only way that we can comprehend the whole tension in such situations is that they felt that it would be more glorifying to God if they left their parents. Now, if they get caught or are killed, did it happen because they were disobedient to their parents? I say not (in this I would say that it is absolutely theologically wrong to think so, though many would think so). But that through the misfortunates of this passionate missionary, that God would work His purpose throught it.
Blessings,
KA

[watching]

Hi Keeping Alert, daffodyllady, Ann, etc.

I would just like to point out a couple of things.

First of all, we have to remember that Jesus came to earth as God in the flesh.

Mary knew that Jesus would be the son of God, from before Jesus had even been conceived in Mary's womb.

Luke 1:30-35

King James Version (KJV)

30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

So, Jesus was not at all disrespectful to Mary, because Mary knew all along that Jesus was the Son of God, and that He would be her Saviour.

See Luke 1 here:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+1&version=KJV

So, when Mary asked Jesus to do a miracle, she knew she was speaking with God.

Because mothers do not typically ask their children to do miracles.

So, Jesus was not at all disrespectful to Mary, when He called her woman, because He was, at that point, speaking to her as God.

So, we cannot compare ourselves with Jesus in that respect.

Now, when it comes to taking care of our family, under normal circumstances that would be a priority.

However, if one is REALLY being called by God, then they should be willing to drop everything and follow Him.

Remember the faith of Abraham, who was willing to sacrifice his own son?

Even though this did not make sense to him, at the time, he, nevertheless, trusted God.

So the question then, that we have to ask ourselves is this:

Is God REALLY calling us, to do something?

Or, is the deceiver deceiving us, by making us feel guilty about doing things that are good and natural to do, like protecting our children?

So, if we are not sure that we are being SPECIFICALLY CALLED BY GOD to do something, then we should stick to our responsibilities and do what we know is right.

Amen?

[Abiding in His Word]

Now, when it comes to taking care of our family, under normal circumstances that would be a priority.

However, if one is REALLY being called by God, then they should be willing to drop everything and follow Him.

Are you saying that a man or woman should feel comfortable abandoning her/his family (including children) and that God would ask this of a parent? Who, then, would provide for them?

[watching]

Hi Abiding in His Word,

If God is REALLY the One who is asking you to do something, and there is absolutely NO DOUBT in your mind that God is the One who is speaking to you, then why would you worry about that?

Are those not the same type of excuses that the people in this parable were making?

Luke 14:15-35

King James Version (KJV)

15And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.

16Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:

17And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.

18And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.

19And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.

20And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.

21So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.

22And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.

23And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

24For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

25And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,

26If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

27And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

28For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

29Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,

30Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

31Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?

32Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.

33So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

34Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?

35It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

The only problem is, how can we be sure that God is speaking to us?

If we are not sure, then obviously, we should do the right thing and take care of our family.

But if we know for a FACT that God is calling us, then we shouldn't be like Lot's wife and look back.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+17&version=KJV

[Abiding in His Word]

The only problem is, how can we be sure that God is speaking to us?

Hello watching,

Rather..."the only problem is" would God ask us to abandon our children or spouse?

If we are not sure, then obviously, we should do the right thing and take care of our family.

Again, even if we think we are certain and have heard from God, who would care for the family in our defaulting the responsibility? And would He expect us to abandon them?

But if we know for a FACT that God is calling us, then we shouldn't be like Lot's wife and look back.

Not look back? Are you comparing Lot's wife's curiosity and/or longing for a way-of-life to a parent neglecting or abandoning their families?

Does God abandon His children?

btw, Those excuses offered in Luke 14 were just that...excuses. Jesus knew that. They did not want to be a disciple. Their priorities were material as opposed to spiritual.

[watching]

Hi Abiding,

Rather..."the only problem is" would God ask us to abandon our children or spouse?

If God asked you to abandon your children or your spouse, would you question Him?

Did Abraham question God, when God asked him to sacrifice his own son?

Did God not create everything, and everyone, in this world; and give you everything that you now have?

So, why would you question God?

That is, IF GOD IS REALLY THE ONE SPEAKING TO YOU..........and not, you just thinking that God might be speaking to you, or trying to convince yourself that God is speaking to you.

Btw, I'm not saying that God would ever ask us to do that, but IF He did, would you question Him?

If you believe that, WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE, then why would you worry about anything that God asked you to do?

[mark s]

I know a man who has left his faithful wife to pursue what he is convinced is God's "vision".

Truly heartbreaking. He abandoned her, though God said to love her.

If you think you are hearing from God, but it leads you against His Book, then you are wrong, and it's not God you heard.

[Abiding in His Word]

If God asked you to abandon your children or your spouse, would you question Him?

I would know immediately that it was not God asking such a thing. There is no scriptural support for parents abandoning their children/families.

Did Abraham question God, when God asked him to sacrifice his own son?

Watching, this portrait pointed directly to the sacrifice of Christ and His substitution in the redemption of mankind. The ram was a type of those for whom Christ took the place of on the cross. God was showing Abraham His love, mercy, and compassion and tested his obedience. This is quite an unusual example of God's test of faith and does not compare with the issue of abandonment we are discussing.

Even when Sarah insisted Hagar and Ishmael be expelled from their family, God did not leave them without a means of provision and comfort. And remember that even Jesus comforted his disciples with the words that He would not leave them as orphans. God provides for his children and we are to do the same.

Did God not create everything, and everyone, in this world; and give you everything that you now have?

So, why would you question God?

Again, it is not a matter of questioning God, but rather questioning the scriptural support for abandoning one's spouse and/or children and testing the spirit we think we hear against scripture.

Btw, I'm not saying that God would ever ask us to do that, but IF He did, would you question Him?

If you believe that, WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE, then why would you worry about anything that God asked you to do?

This, imho, is a moot point without scriptural support for abandonment. As I understand it, most missionaries to foreign countries do so as a family. And don't we see in scripture that even the apostles traveled with their wives? And didn't Jesus accompany Peter to his mil to care for her in her infirmity?

No, Paul tells us that if we want unencumbered service to the Lord, we should remain single as marrieds interests are divided between pleasing the Lord and pleasing their spouse - not either or.

[Abiding in His Word]

Just to add....that's not to say that one spouse or the other can't take on a project or short-term ministry away from home providing both are in agreement and provisions are made for the safety and security of the family in their absence.

[mark s]

No, Paul tells us that if we want unencumbered service to the Lord, we should remain single as marrieds interests are divided between pleasing the Lord and pleasing their spouse - not either or.

Hmmm . . . very good point.

[watching]

That is, IF GOD IS REALLY THE ONE SPEAKING TO YOU..........and not, you just thinking that God might be speaking to you, or trying to convince yourself that God is speaking to you.

Btw, I was just responding to Ann's question.

I'm not advocating for anyone to do anything.

I'm just saying that we need to be ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT GOD IS SPEAKING TO US, before we decide to do anything that would go against our better judgement.

And when I say WE NEED TO BE SURE, I'm not talking about little voices in our own head, or our own thoughts, or by trying to apply certain scriptures to ourselves.

I'M TALKING ABOUT HEAVEN OPENING UP AND GOD LITERALLY SPEAKING TO US FROM HEAVEN!!!!!

IF THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED, THEN I WOULD DEFINITELY NOT TURN MY BACK ON ANYONE IN MY FAMILY.

BUT IF THAT DID HAPPEN, THEN I WOULD NOT LOOK BACK, AND WOULD JUST TRUST GOD, IN REGARD TO EVERYTHING ELSE.

20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

22And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

23And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.

24For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

25But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

32Remember Lot's wife.

33Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

[Ann]

The only problem is, how can we be sure that God is speaking to us?

Hello watching,

Rather..."the only problem is" would God ask us to abandon our children or spouse?

If we are not sure, then obviously, we should do the right thing and take care of our family.

Again, even if we think we are certain and have heard from God, who would care for the family in our defaulting the responsibility? And would He expect us to abandon them?


Does God abandon His children?

God killed His own Son. God also told Abraham to kill his own son.

"He who loves his life will lose it. He who loses his life for my sake will find it."

The Bible has an awful lot to say about idols. Idolatry is when we place something... anything 1st above God. Could be children, spouse, money, self, career.

if God wants to test the genuineness of our faith, all He has to do is stretch out His hand and touch that which we love the most. Just like He did with job.

[Abiding in His Word]

The Bible has an awful lot to say about idols. Idolatry is when we place something... anything 1st above God. Could be children, spouse, money, self, career.

We're not talking about idols here. We're talking about responsibilities; those entrusted to our care. There's a big difference.

[Abiding in His Word]

I'M TALKING ABOUT HEAVEN OPENING UP AND GOD LITERALLY SPEAKING TO US FROM HEAVEN!!!!!

If you supply scripture where God actually opened the heavens and told someone to abandon their families, I will acquiesce!

[watching]

I'M TALKING ABOUT HEAVEN OPENING UP AND GOD LITERALLY SPEAKING TO US FROM HEAVEN!!!!!

If you supply scripture where God actually opened the heavens and told someone to abandon their families, I will acquiesce!

I just gave you the scripture.

Luke 17:30-31

King James Version (KJV)

30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

[watching]

Hi Ann,

There is nothing idolatrous about a mother loving and wanting to protect her children from harm.

That is not putting your children before God.

I'm sure that there are other ways to witness to these people, that do not involve putting your child in danger, provided they are willing to listen to you.

If they are not willing to listen to you, then you need to just shake the dust off your feet and move on.

Matthew 10:14
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

[Ann]

The Bible has an awful lot to say about idols. Idolatry is when we place something... anything 1st above God. Could be children, spouse, money, self, career.

We're not talking about idols here. We're talking about responsibilities; those entrusted to our care. There's a big difference.

Well in my case, my daughter could be considered an idol, if I chose to disobey God and not let her have visits with her biological father.... If that's what God wanted me to do, I still don't know.

Issac would have been considered an idol to Abraham, if Abraham would not have been willing to put him to death as God ordered him to do.

See what I mean? So I just want to be careful not to place my children above God's will.

[Ann]

Hi Ann,

There is nothing idolatrous about a mother loving and wanting to protect her children from harm.

That is not putting your children before God.

I'm sure that there are other ways to witness to these people, that do not involve putting your child in danger, provided they are willing to listen to you.

If they are not willing to listen to you, then you need to just shake the dust off your feet and move on.

Matthew 10:14
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Well I just wonder, like from the bio father's stand point. I think he feels like I forced him to sign over his rights. And I think he has some resentment towards me for that. He didn't want to sign over his rights, but I used child support as a way to get him to do it. You see, back then his license was suspended from driving under the influence of drugs/alcohol so he couldn't get to work. I told him that my husband wanted to adopt our daughter and if he signed over his rights then he would never have to pay child support. So I think he might feel like I took advantage of the fact that he was unable to pay, and he didnt want to go to jail for not being able to pay child support.

I didn't technically do anything wrong, but I can see how he would feel like it's my fault that he lost his daughter. And since I'm a Christian and he's not, that's just one big excuse for him to turn from God completely. I just keep thinking about the time when he went to church, prayed to be saved. He cried. I know he felt the presence of God. But now he's a self proclaimed "agnostic". He really regrets giving his daughter up and what an opportunity could be to open his heart up to the Lord again. PArt of me really wants to do it... to give him the love of his daughter, and show him mercy... but I still dont know. Because I know that seh would really look up to him and if he's doing the exact opposite of what the Bible says, who's going to be the stronger influence? Certainly the flesh and blood father right in front of her face. But then again, God has the power to save my little girl and bring her into the kingdom. Maybe I should just trust Him to do that and let go a little.

It's like, I really want to trust God and leap out in faith, but I can't force God to go along with my plan if He's not in it. Because maybe this man will never get saved, no matter what I do. Then it will all be for nothing and it could really damage my daughter's faith. Especially if she sees her "Dad" living a sinful life and telling her that God doesn't even exist.

What doubt that would place in her mind. It just makes me sick to think about it. She's 8 and a half, and shes already struggling with her faith as it is. She doesnt pray or talk about God anymore like she used to and she tells me she doesn't believe that He will answer her prayers. I feel like she needs her faith BOOSTED not torn down. But I dont see the big picture, God is able to fix her later, even if her "Dad" does lead her astray for a while. I just need to be sure what God's will is, and I pray that He makes it clear.

[watching]

Hi Ann,

I'm getting ready to head out, so it may be a while before I can respond.

I'll try to think about it while I'm gone, though.

[Abiding in His Word]

Well in my case, my daughter could be considered an idol, if I chose to disobey God and not let her have visits with her biological father.... If that's what God wanted me to do, I still don't know.

Hi Ann,

Just a note to clarify that most of my posts directed to watching were refuting his posts about God asking us for obedience in abandoning our families.

You have not stated the age of your daughter (unless I missed it) but that does imho make a difference. If she's old enough, surely she would understand right from wrong behavior and be able to convey wrong behavior to you following visits to her father. She would also know that not all unbelievers are despicable people who must be feared. Although not saved, many live upright lives with a belief in "doing unto others...."

If she's very young, however, a supervised visit would evidently make you more comfortable as you mentioned above.

[watching]

Hi Abiding,

First of all, I am a she.

And second of all, I never said anything about God asking us for obedience in abandoning our families.

I have no idea where you are getting that from.

I was just trying to answer Ann's question.

[watching]

Hi Ann,

I just got back, but I still don't have time to answer your question.

Maybe, I'll have more time later this evening.

[Abiding in His Word]

And second of all, I never said anything about God asking us for obedience in abandoning our families.

Hi watching,

I asked you: Are you saying that a man or woman should feel comfortable abandoning her/his family (including children) and that God would ask this of a parent? Who, then, would provide for them?

You replied:

If God is REALLY the One who is asking you to do something, and there is absolutely NO DOUBT in your mind that God is the One who is speaking to you, then why would you worry about that?

Are those not the same type of excuses that the people in this parable were making?

You also posted:

I'M TALKING ABOUT HEAVEN OPENING UP AND GOD LITERALLY SPEAKING TO US FROM HEAVEN!!!!!

IF THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED, THEN I WOULD DEFINITELY NOT TURN MY BACK ON ANYONE IN MY FAMILY.

BUT IF THAT DID HAPPEN, THEN I WOULD NOT LOOK BACK, AND WOULD JUST TRUST GOD, IN REGARD TO EVERYTHING ELSE.

I'm just offering those statements by way of explaining what I understood from them.

[watching]

Hi Ann,

On second thought, I do have a little time to answer your question.

I've been thinking about it, and here's what I think.

But, first let me just say, that I am not in any way qualified to give anyone advise. So, please just take my advice for what it's worth.

Anyway, here's what I think.

I think that if you were to give your daughter's biological father, visitation rights, at this point, that would be as if you were allowing him to have the same rights as a parent who did not give up their rights, but without him, however, having to bear any responsibility as a parent.

So, imo, that would be like, letting him have his cake and eat it too.

Obviously, that does not seem right, or fair, to me.

So, what I think I would do at this point, is to, first of all, ask your daughter if she would like to see her biological father.

If she is not interested in seeing him, then I would just explain that to him.

However, if she is interested in spending time with her biological father, then I would not deny either of them the opportunity to spend time with each other, as long as the feeling is mutual.

However, I would start out with supervised visitation.

I would also make it CLEAR to her biological father, however, that you are under no obligation to do this, but are only doing it as a favor to him, because you respect his feelings for her as her biological father.

Then, if her biological father proves to be trustworthy, then possibly I would allow some VERY LIMITED unsupervised visitation, every once in a while, BUT CERTAINLY NOT WHENEVER HE FEELS LIKE IT.

However, let me just say, that I would not think of this as a salvation issue.

Or as your DUTY to do this for the sake of anyone's salvation.

I do not think that the salvation of your daughter's biological father should depend on whether he is allowed to see your daughter, or not.

So, I would definitely not recommend that you burden yourself with that notion.

You need to do what is in the best interest of your daughter, and if you see that her biological father is unfit, for visitation with her, then you should not carry the burden of his salvation on your shoulders, based on your decision to look after the best interest of your daughter, in light of the situation.

Whether or not your daughter's biological father decides to accept Christ as his Lord and Saviour, is his decision to make, and does not have anything to do with how you decide to rear your daughter.

You may respect his wishes to see your daughter, as long as he proves to be trustworthy.

But if he DOESN'T, then you have every right to protect your daughter from harm. And you should not feel guilty about that.

Only you know the situation, exactly, and whether it is safe or not for your daughter to have unsupervised visitation.

However, if your daughter wishes to see her biological father, then I don't think that I would deny her that privilege or ABSOLUTELY FORBID her to see her father AT ALL.

Because that will only cause the curiosity to fester, and may even cause her to draw closer to him, as well as cause further resentment towards you.

So, I would definitely allow them to see each other, if that is what your daughter wants.

But, as I said, I would start out with very limited supervised visitation, and then see how it goes from there.

[watching]

Hi watching,

I asked you: Are you saying that a man or woman should feel comfortable abandoning her/his family (including children) and that God would ask this of a parent? Who, then, would provide for them?

You replied:

If God is REALLY the One who is asking you to do something, and there is absolutely NO DOUBT in your mind that God is the One who is speaking to you, then why would you worry about that?

Are those not the same type of excuses that the people in this parable were making?

Hi Abiding,

I basically just answered your question with a question.

You also posted:

I'M TALKING ABOUT HEAVEN OPENING UP AND GOD LITERALLY SPEAKING TO US FROM HEAVEN!!!!!

IF THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED, THEN I WOULD DEFINITELY NOT TURN MY BACK ON ANYONE IN MY FAMILY.

BUT IF THAT DID HAPPEN, THEN I WOULD NOT LOOK BACK, AND WOULD JUST TRUST GOD, IN REGARD TO EVERYTHING ELSE.



I'm just offering those statements by way of explaining what I understood from them.

I was referring to the following scripture:

Luke 17:30-31

King James Version (KJV)

30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

Aside from being told DIRECTLY FROM GOD TO FOLLOW HIM, I don't believe that I would ever abandon my family.

However, when the Son of Man is revealed, what will you do?

Will you not drop everything and follow Him?

[Keeping Alert]

Just consider this guys... if taking care of our family and love ones are priorities that cannot be shaken, then why did Jesus ask us to "hate our ......"?

Consider how it was described of the disciples leaving all to follow Jesus... Immediately! Peter, James and John just had a huge haul, but they "forsook all and followed him." Did they think that they should be helping their ageing fathers to catch fish in the future? Did they bargain with Jesus that if they follow him, please promise to take care of their family?

Consider Abraham, even though he knew killing his son is wrong for it was murder yet he was prepared to do so. Wow! What would you do if you heard a voice asking you to sacrifice your son? I suspect most of us would say, Get thee behind me, Satan!

I understand what watching is saying...

God must take full priority in our lives. He is the pre-eminent One. Nothing must stand in our way of serving him and glorifying him.

If we were to consider all the ways of honoring our parents and taking care of our children as one should rightly do, then whereforth the missions? And I can say, being in missions myself, that is why missions is so weak. Before anything, the person considering missions, is thinking this and that... will their children get schooling, will there be regular donations, will they have a place to stay, will the church promise to support them... instead of if God is indeed calling me, When Lord?

Did any of the apostles consider all these encumbences of life, I ask thee?

Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or What shall we drink? or Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

Shall we broaden it?

Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall my child/parent eat? or What shall my child/parent drink? or Wherewithal shall my child/parent be clothed?

(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knows that you have need of all these things.

BUT SEEK YE FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD.....

Blessings,
KA

p.s. Ann, please don't get the wrong idea that I am asking you to "give up" your daughter. In fact, I made it quite clear that based on what information you provided, I would continue to protect her for I think that between the two options, you would be glorifying God more by taking good care of your daughter by protecting her from being exposed to unsavory characters. In my posts, I am basically challenging ourselves to put God first (absolutely) with no self-made hurdles that we may unknowingly put up to protect ourselves and our love ones...

[Abiding in His Word]

Shall we broaden it?

Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall my child/parent eat? or What shall my child/parent drink? or Wherewithal shall my child/parent be clothed?

Hi Keeping Alert,

Are you saying that God might ask a believer to abandon his/her family and give no thought to their welfare while they go off for an indeterminate time?

Your other points have been addressed in this thread, but would you agree that I've summarized your position correctly by my question? Just curious.

[Ann]

Are you saying that God might ask a believer to abandon his/her family and give no thought to their welfare while they go off for an indeterminate time?

I don't think we can assume that God would never ask someone to leave their family. After all, God did command Abraham to kill his son.

Matthew 19:29
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

What if the AntiChrist patrol showed up at your door and said that if you dont take this mark right now we're taking you downtown? Then you would have to leave.

I think it's possible that God could ask someone to go minister in a foreign country or out of state for 1 month, 2 months, 6 months etc. It could be a husband, and the wife could be at home with the kids. Who knows? The possibilities are endless.

The point is that God wants to be first in our heart. And there will be times in our lives when our loyalty will be put to the test. It wont always make perfect sense, but we are told not to lean on our own understanding.

[Ann]

Thank You Watching for your advice, it's nice to get someone else's opinion. I appreciate it.

[Keeping Alert]

Shall we broaden it?

Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall my child/parent eat? or What shall my child/parent drink? or Wherewithal shall my child/parent be clothed?

Hi Keeping Alert,

Are you saying that God might ask a believer to abandon his/her family and give no thought to their welfare while they go off for an indeterminate time?

Your other points have been addressed in this thread, but would you agree that I've summarized your position correctly by my question? Just curious.

I think Ann answered the question quite perfectly :)

But if I were to answer the question,

My first response is I would say Why Not?
My second response is you have cut off the quotation at the most crucial point -

(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knows that you have need of all these things.

BUT SEEK YE FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD.....

Let me tell you about my story in brief. I was doing very well in business and had just gotten married when I got this tent-making opportunity in Vietnam. First, I prayed about it and it resonated in my heart to go. Of course, I considered about my business and my family, etc but at no point was it first place in my heart. I wanted to make sure it was from God. The pay in Vietnam was not even a fifth of what I was earning a month. My mother had bleeding gastritis and my dad had cataract (which you may remember he later became totally blind but later was healed)
I prayed with my new wife and she supported me and we made a decision to go together. I sold off my business and my car in 2 weeks. It could be the hand of God that helped in those sales but the truth is, I did not really care for how much it sold. But by God’s grace, they were sold at a reasonable price.
Having been in Vietnam for 3.5 years, I felt a calling to go to China. At that time, my wife was 6 months pregnant with our first child. Our initially plan was to return home to deliver our child and the family back home was all ready for it. But then came a call to go to China. Again, I prayed if it was from God. It was again resonated within me. I told my wife and she again was supportive (what a wonderful wife I have!) And so to China we went and delivered our child there.
I had lots of reasons not to go… my mother, my father and my wife, if I had considered them, I would not have gone. But my eyes was focused on God and it all worked out well. The ministry that I have is working out well.
Would any say that I should not have gone?
Blessings
KA

[Abiding in His Word]

My first response is I would say Why Not?

My second response is you have cut off the quotation at the most crucial point -

Because the Kingdom of God is not of this earth, but is rather a spiritual kingdom. So when Jesus tells us to seek first the Kingdom of God, He is referring to their focus on the spiritual as their priority as opposed to the material.

And it appears you have taken license with the scripture in adding parent and child.

I prayed with my new wife and she supported me and we made a decision to go together.

I told my wife and she again was supportive (what a wonderful wife I have!)

This is the way it should be. Decisions of such a magnitude must entail the agreement of those involved as such a move will impact the family. You did "consider" your wife in the matter and there was agreement between you.

And so to China we went and delivered our child there.

Now, would you and your wife accept a call to go to Russia, for example, and leave your child in China? Or would your wife decide to leave the child in China and return to the states had she received a call from God to do so? This surely would make no sense.

You see, Keeping Alert, we are not called to leave our loved ones to fend for themselves without appropriate consideration for their well being during a time of absence. Even the conjugal rights of one another must be considered and agreed upon for an indeterminate length of time.

Again, the Kingdom of God is not of this earth, but is rather a spiritual kingdom. So when Jesus tells us to seek first the Kingdom of God, He is referring to the focus on the spiritual as priority as opposed to the material. The gentiles have it backward in that their priority is the material as opposed to the spiritual. Jesus makes it clear that our focus and priority is to be on the spiritual, but not to the abandonment or neglect of the natural.

Marriage is to mirror the mystery of Christ's self-sacrifice, love and nourishment of His church. He promised to never leave or forsake His people. He said He would not leave them as orphans. He knows our needs and will supply them according to His riches in glory. He has presented us with an example of agape love that should exist between husband and wife in caring for one another.

[Keeping Alert]

It is very hard to describe to you what it means to surrender all.

We sing "I surrender All" and at the back of our mind, we won't surrender anything unless it makes sense and we justify our lack of faith in a faithful God who will take care of our needs by all sorts of theoretical examples.

And may I say, with all sorts of modern gadgets like Skype and Telegraphic Transfer and open air-routes, we are never that far away from one another.

In the past, like I said, once a person decides to leave his home for the mission field, he is actually saying Goodbye for good. The trip from one land to another by sea took months. Hygiene was poor. Healthcare was in its infancy. There was no telephone. Mails were tediously slow. He had no contacts with his love ones. Yet did they go? They sure did. By our natural reasoning, they must have totally irresponsible and ungodly. Would they bring their wife and child along? Some did, some did not.

Is it irresponsible to leave a child alone with a nanny or a close friend or relative for 2 weeks so that the couple can have some time together? I think you would say not. Then how is it any worse if the parents take 1 year break to go to Russia or Japan on mission at all times, always calling back and video conferencing their child to make sure all is fine.

Don't make it out to be so bad that leaving someone behind is like a totally Satanic thing to do. Of course, we will keep in touch and make sure that our bank account is totally available for those in need at home (that is what I did... I revealed my pin number and signed all my checks for my parents... just in case I got caught and be thrown into jail or worse). But when the call comes, I shudder to think how many will realise one day that they had turned down offers to serve Him whom they claim to have surrendered all...

Blessings,
KA

[Abiding in His Word]

It is very hard to describe to you what it means to surrender all.

We sing "I surrender All" and at the back of our mind, we won't surrender anything unless it makes sense and we justify our lack of faith in a faithful God who will take care of our needs by all sorts of theoretical examples.

And may I say, with all sorts of modern gadgets like Skype and Telegraphic Transfer and open air-routes, we are never that far away from one another.

In the past, like I said, once a person decides to leave his home for the mission field, he is actually saying Goodbye for good. The trip from one land to another by sea took months. Hygiene was poor. Healthcare was in its infancy. There was no telephone. Mails were tediously slow. He had no contacts with his love ones. Yet did they go? They sure did. By our natural reasoning, they must have totally irresponsible and ungodly. Would they bring their wife and child along? Some did, some did not.

Is it irresponsible to leave a child alone with a nanny or a close friend or relative for 2 weeks so that the couple can have some time together? I think you would say not. Then how is it any worse if the parents take 1 year break to go to Russia or Japan on mission at all times, always calling back and video conferencing their child to make sure all is fine.

Don't make it out to be so bad that leaving someone behind is like a totally Satanic thing to do. Of course, we will keep in touch and make sure that our bank account is totally available for those in need at home (that is what I did... I revealed my pin number and signed all my checks for my parents... just in case I got caught and be thrown into jail or worse). But when the call comes, I shudder to think how many will realise one day that they had turned down offers to serve Him whom they claim to have surrendered all...

Hello Keeping Alert,

This post reflects a very different scenario than the previous....

"I had lots of reasons not to go… my mother, my father and my wife, if I had considered them, I would not have gone."

...which appeared to imply that you saw no need to "consider" your family in pursuing your out-of-the-country work. Thank you for clarifying that you did, in fact, consider their needs in your absence and took appropriate, responsible measures to assure their security during that time frame.

[Keeping Alert]

Haha... how words are miscontrued!

The point that I was getting at was that the first thing that should consider in any situation is what does God want me to do in that particular situation and what would glorify him most.

I believe that there are many people whose hearts were moved to missions but hesitated because they considered their situation and they decided against it and mind you with a set of "good" reasons to back it up.

This was the lesson from Peter on the water. God called him and he walked but when he took his eyes off God, and focus ed on the situation around him, he failed.

If our hearts had been "strangely warmed" (using the phrase by John Wesley) towards missions, decide first if it is indeed a call from God and if it is, then decide to "go". The planning to care for family, etc comes later. Too often, it is the other way around. They hear a call to go, then they start looking at their bank account, and their children education, etc, and when it seems tough, they don't go. What ever happened to the call from God to walk on water?

Where there is a will, there will be a way. E.g. If we purpose within our hearts to obey the call, what about the children education? What about it? I have friends who serve in Cambodia. Their children are home schooled and eat grasshopper legs as their favorite food and the boys urinate on walls. Is that acceptable? Not by our snobbish standards but then I think God is smiling and is most glorified.

Evangelism is a commandment; honoring our parents is a commandment; caring for our children is a commandment... But Seek Ye First the Kingdom of God....

BLessings,
KA