Damascus and Isaiah 17

(heavily moderated)

Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby Seeker on Mon May 02, 2011 5:23 pm

Isa 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

Many will try to argue that Isaiah 17 is fulfilled prior to the rise of the AC. They point to Isaiah 17 as the destruction of Islam supposedly proving that an Islamic AC is not possible. There are several reasons why that is not true.

Isa 17:7 At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 17:8 And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made, either the groves, or the images.


At "that day" (the day Damascus is destroyed) a man will look to his Maker and have respect for the Holy One of Israel. Men don't respect the Holy One of Israel until the very end.

Isa 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
Isa 10:21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.


Isaiah 10 talks about a day that the remnant of Israel returns to the Holy One of Israel, the mighty God. We know that occurs after Armageddon. It shall come to pass "in that day"....The day that is being spoken of is the day the Assyrian is attacking Israel.

Isa 10:24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.

The Assyrian attacks Israel but is defeated by the Lord for taking credit for what God has done.

Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
Isa 10:6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.


After the Assyrian attacks, takes credit for the victory, is defeated by the Lord, then we have the remnant returning to God. That happens after Armageddon which helps us to timestamp Isaiah 10.

Isa 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

Isa 10:9 Is not Calno as Carchemish? is not Hamath as Arpad? is not Samaria as Damascus?
Isa 10:10 As my hand hath found the kingdoms of the idols, and whose graven images did excel them of Jerusalem and of Samaria;
Isa 10:11 Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols?


If Damascus is no longer a city and a ruinous heap then how is it that the Assyrian conquers Damascus? Damascus is already gone according to many prior to the AC. But as we see here the AC mentions Damascus in a list of cities he has attacked.

Amo 1:2 And he said, The LORD will roar from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.
Amo 1:3 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Damascus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they have threshed Gilead with threshing instruments of iron:
Amo 1:4 But I will send a fire into the house of Hazael, which shall devour the palaces of Benhadad.
Amo 1:5 I will break also the bar of Damascus, and cut off the inhabitant from the plain of Aven, and him that holdeth the sceptre from the house of Eden: and the people of Syria shall go into captivity unto Kir, saith the LORD.


Here we see the Lord roaring from Zion, uttering His voice from Jerusalem. That occurs after Jesus defeats the armies of Armageddon again timestamping this scripture to the end of the last 7 years. But yet we see the city of Damascus being punished at that time. That again proves that Damascus is still around at the end of the last 7 years. If Isaiah 17 had already occured there would be no Damascus to punish it would have been a ruinous heap not a city.

Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Seeker
 
Posts: 2168
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby 4givenmuch on Mon May 02, 2011 8:18 pm

[quote]because they have threshed Gilead with threshing instruments of iron:/quote]

This just reminds me of Gilad Shalit :(
Seek Humility!
User avatar
4givenmuch
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 3172
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:42 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby benny balerio on Tue May 03, 2011 3:34 am

Seeker wrote:Isa 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

Many will try to argue that Isaiah 17 is fulfilled prior to the rise of the AC. They point to Isaiah 17 as the destruction of Islam supposedly proving that an Islamic AC is not possible. There are several reasons why that is not true.

Isa 17:7 At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 17:8 And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made, either the groves, or the images.


At "that day" (the day Damascus is destroyed) a man will look to his Maker and have respect for the Holy One of Israel. Men don't respect the Holy One of Israel until the very end.

Isa 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
Isa 10:21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.


Isaiah 10 talks about a day that the remnant of Israel returns to the Holy One of Israel, the mighty God. We know that occurs after Armageddon. It shall come to pass "in that day"....The day that is being spoken of is the day the Assyrian is attacking Israel.

Isa 10:24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.

The Assyrian attacks Israel but is defeated by the Lord for taking credit for what God has done.

Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
Isa 10:6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.


After the Assyrian attacks, takes credit for the victory, is defeated by the Lord, then we have the remnant returning to God. That happens after Armageddon which helps us to timestamp Isaiah 10.

Isa 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

Isa 10:9 Is not Calno as Carchemish? is not Hamath as Arpad? is not Samaria as Damascus?
Isa 10:10 As my hand hath found the kingdoms of the idols, and whose graven images did excel them of Jerusalem and of Samaria;
Isa 10:11 Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols?


If Damascus is no longer a city and a ruinous heap then how is it that the Assyrian conquers Damascus? Damascus is already gone according to many prior to the AC. But as we see here the AC mentions Damascus in a list of cities he has attacked.

Amo 1:2 And he said, The LORD will roar from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.
Amo 1:3 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Damascus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they have threshed Gilead with threshing instruments of iron:
Amo 1:4 But I will send a fire into the house of Hazael, which shall devour the palaces of Benhadad.
Amo 1:5 I will break also the bar of Damascus, and cut off the inhabitant from the plain of Aven, and him that holdeth the sceptre from the house of Eden: and the people of Syria shall go into captivity unto Kir, saith the LORD.


Here we see the Lord roaring from Zion, uttering His voice from Jerusalem. That occurs after Jesus defeats the armies of Armageddon again timestamping this scripture to the end of the last 7 years. But yet we see the city of Damascus being punished at that time. That again proves that Damascus is still around at the end of the last 7 years. If Isaiah 17 had already occured there would be no Damascus to punish it would have been a ruinous heap not a city.

Peace,
Seeker

It is very obvious that you are very confused about the timing of scriptures.
And from looking at your statements here,..I see a multude of flaws in your erroneous claims..........There will not be a Islamic antichrist.

Now!....Syria is not mentioned in the Ezekiel 38 battle, because she was destroyed before the Ezekiel 38 battle had come to pass.
When the Isaiah 17;1 prophecy does come to pass.......Man will look to his Maker.........The multitude of secularist in Israel will begin turning to God,...but this will be more so.....when the Ezekiel 38 battle comes to pass when the Jews had just witnessed the Creator wipe out Israels enemies, and many of them will return to Israel will a strong desire to build the third temple unto God,...but yet many still had not yet recognized Jesus as their long awaited Messiah.......But there is a time coming when they will!
Each step along the way to Israel’s complete restoration is meant to be a sign to show both Israel and the nations that God is the Lord. Each of these signs is identified by some form of the phrase “You will know that I am the Lord” and there are ten of them.

In effect He was saying, “You will know that I am the Lord,

When I settle people in the land and they become fruitful and prosperous (Ezekiel 36:11)

When I show Myself holy through Israel before the eyes of the nations (Ezekiel 36:23)

When I have rebuilt what was destroyed and replanted what was desolate (Ezekiel 36:36)

When I fill the rebuilt cities with people (Ezekiel 36:38).

When I bring back to life a people long dead (Ezekiel 37:6)

When I open their graves and bring My people up from them (Ezekiel 37:13)

When I put My spirit in them and settle them in their own land (Ezekiel 37:14)

When My sanctuary stands among them forever (Ezekiel 37:28)

When I defeat the Gog Magog coalition (Ezekiel 38:23)

When I have finished calling My people back to Israel, not leaving any behind” (Ezekiel 39:28).


You Quote:
After the Assyrian attacks, takes credit for the victory, is defeated by the Lord, then we have the remnant returning to God. That happens after Armageddon which helps us to timestamp Isaiah 10.

My Reply:
What you are really trying to erroneously claim here is that you are trying to say that the assyrian is Gog and that Gog is the antichrist.........................Sorry guy,..but that has been refuted in a number of ways.
The Differences of Ezekiel 38 battle from the Armageddon war are as follows:
1.The Valley of Hamon-Gog is located east of the Dead Sea....The valley of Megiddo is located to the exteme northwest of the dead sea near Lebanon.
2.The armies in Ezekiel 38 are limited in number,and Sheba, Dedan and the merchants of Tarish are not involved in the attack........the armageddon war consists of all the kings of the earth.
3.Gog is killed and buried in Ezekiel 38-39...and the antichrist involved in armageddon is captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire.
4.In the Ezekiel 38-39 battle all but 1/6th of the invading army are destroyed...in the Armageddon war...All the invaders are destroyed none left alive.
5.In the Ezekiel 38 battle,..the invasion occurs when Israel in dwelling in safety and her walls defenced.....in the Armageddon war, Israel is hiding from the antichrist and not living in safety.
6.The armies of Ezekiel 38 never reach Jerusalem,..and the Armies of Armageddon do reach Jerusalem.
Last edited by benny balerio on Tue May 03, 2011 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
benny balerio
 
Posts: 1536
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:00 am

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby Seeker on Tue May 03, 2011 5:48 am

Hi Benny,

Amo 1:2 And he said, The LORD will roar from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.
Amo 1:3 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Damascus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ; because they have threshed Gilead with threshing instruments of iron:
Amo 1:4 But I will send a fire into the house of Hazael, which shall devour the palaces of Benhadad.
Amo 1:5 I will break also the bar of Damascus, and cut off the inhabitant from the plain of Aven, and him that holdeth the sceptre from the house of Eden: and the people of Syria shall go into captivity unto Kir, saith the LORD.


Damascus is still a city when the Lord roars from Zion and utters His voice from Jerusalem. It has to be a city to be punished. We can find when the Lord roars from Jerusalem in other scripture.

Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

That happens at the DOTL which timestamps the "roar" to the end of the last 7 years. That proves Damascus is still a city at the end of the last 7 years.

Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Seeker
 
Posts: 2168
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby mark s on Tue May 03, 2011 7:36 am

Seeker wrote:Hi Benny,

Amo 1:2 And he said, The LORD will roar from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.
Amo 1:3 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Damascus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ; because they have threshed Gilead with threshing instruments of iron:
Amo 1:4 But I will send a fire into the house of Hazael, which shall devour the palaces of Benhadad.
Amo 1:5 I will break also the bar of Damascus, and cut off the inhabitant from the plain of Aven, and him that holdeth the sceptre from the house of Eden: and the people of Syria shall go into captivity unto Kir, saith the LORD.



" . . . the palaces of Benhadad."

Isn't this a fulfilled prophecy?
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
User avatar
mark s
MODERATOR
 
Posts: 13872
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:38 am
Location: Southern California, USA

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby benny balerio on Tue May 03, 2011 11:30 am

mark s wrote:
Seeker wrote:Hi Benny,

Amo 1:2 And he said, The LORD will roar from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.
Amo 1:3 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Damascus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ; because they have threshed Gilead with threshing instruments of iron:
Amo 1:4 But I will send a fire into the house of Hazael, which shall devour the palaces of Benhadad.
Amo 1:5 I will break also the bar of Damascus, and cut off the inhabitant from the plain of Aven, and him that holdeth the sceptre from the house of Eden: and the people of Syria shall go into captivity unto Kir, saith the LORD.



" . . . the palaces of Benhadad."

Isn't this a fulfilled prophecy?

Yes Mark,..it is a prophecy that was fulfilled in ancient past.
User avatar
benny balerio
 
Posts: 1536
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:00 am

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby benny balerio on Tue May 03, 2011 11:43 am

Seeker wrote:Hi Benny,

Amo 1:2 And he said, The LORD will roar from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.
Amo 1:3 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Damascus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ; because they have threshed Gilead with threshing instruments of iron:
Amo 1:4 But I will send a fire into the house of Hazael, which shall devour the palaces of Benhadad.
Amo 1:5 I will break also the bar of Damascus, and cut off the inhabitant from the plain of Aven, and him that holdeth the sceptre from the house of Eden: and the people of Syria shall go into captivity unto Kir, saith the LORD.


Damascus is still a city when the Lord roars from Zion and utters His voice from Jerusalem. It has to be a city to be punished. We can find when the Lord roars from Jerusalem in other scripture.

Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

That happens at the DOTL which timestamps the "roar" to the end of the last 7 years. That proves Damascus is still a city at the end of the last 7 years.

Peace,
Seeker

You are attempting to place scripture into the wrong time frames,....your above quote occurred in ancient past and is not a future prophecy,..it would be great if you would do the research before making a post.
http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view. ... hapter=001
for three transgressions . . . and for four--If Damascus had only sinned once or twice, I would have spared them, but since, after having been so often pardoned, they still persevere so continually, I will no longer "turn away" their punishment. The Hebrew is simply, "I will not reverse it," namely, the sentence of punishment which follows; the negative expression implies more than it expresses; that is, "I will most surely execute it"; God's fulfilment of His threats being more awful than human language can express. "Three and four" imply sin multiplied on sin (compare Ex 20:5; Pr 30:15, 18, 21; "six and seven," Job 5:19; "once and twice," Job 33:14; "twice and thrice," Margin; "oftentimes," English Version, Job 33:29; "seven and also eight," Ec 11:2). There may be also a reference to seven, the product of three and four added; seven expressing the full completion of the measure of their guilt (Le 26:18, 21, 24; compare Mt 23:32).
threshed--the very term used of the Syrian king Hazael's oppression of Israel under Jehu and Jehoahaz (2Ki 10:32, 33; 13:7). The victims were thrown before the threshing sledges, the teeth of which tore their bodies. So David to Ammon (2Sa 12:31; compare Isa 28:27).

4. Hazael . . . Ben-hadad--A black marble obelisk found in the central palace of Nimroud, and now in the British Museum, is inscribed with the names of Hazael and Ben-hadad of Syria, as well as Jehu of Israel, mentioned as tributaries of "Shalmanubar," king of Assyria. The kind of tribute from Jehu is mentioned: gold, pearls, precious oil, &c. [G. V. SMITH]. The Ben-hadad here is the son of Hazael (2Ki 13:3), not the Ben-hadad supplanted and slain by Hazael (2Ki 8:7, 15). The phrase, "I will send a fire," that is, the flame of war (Ps 78:63), occurs also in Am 1:7, 10, 12, 14, and Am 2:2, 5; Jer 49:27; Ho 8:14.
User avatar
benny balerio
 
Posts: 1536
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:00 am

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby Seeker on Wed May 04, 2011 5:53 am

Hi Mark,

Isn't this a fulfilled prophecy?


Well I am not so sure it is.

Amo 1:2 And he said, The LORD will roar from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.

When was the Lord physically present to roar "from" Zion? When did He utter His voice from Jerusalem? Here's Barnes notes for the Lord roaring from Zion.

The Lord will roar - Amos joins on his prophecy to the end of Joel's, in order at once in its very opening to attest the oneness of their mission, and to prepare people's minds to see, that his own prophecy was an expansion of those words, declaring the nearer and coming judgments of God. Those nearer judgments, however, of which he spake, were but the preludes of the judgments of the Great Day which Joel foretold, and of that last terrible voice of Christ, "the Lion of the tribe of Judah," of whom Jacob prophesies; "He couched, He lay down as a lion, and as a young lion; who shall raise Him up?" Genesis 49:9. God is said to "utter His" awful "voice from Zion and Jerusalem," because there He had set His Name, there He was present in His Church. It was, as it were, His own place, which He had hallowed by tokens of His presence, although "the heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain Him." In the outset of his prophecy, Amos warned Israel, that there, not among themselves in their separated state, God dwelt. Jeremiah, in using these same words toward Judah, speaks not of Jerusalem, but of heaven; "The Lord shall roar from on high, and utter His voice from His holy habitation" Jeremiah 25:30. The prophecy is to the ten tribes or to the pagan: God speaks out of the Church. He uttereth His Voice out of Jerusalem, as He saith, "Out of Zion shall go forth, the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem" Isaiah 2:3, "where was the Temple and the worship of God, to shew that God was not in the cities of Israel, that is, in Dan and Bethel, where were the golden calves, nor in the royal cities of Samaria and Jezreel, but in the true religion which was then in Zion and Jerusalem."

http://bible.cc/amos/1-2.htm


Barnes seems to indicate the same thing I read in this chapter. The roaring out of Zion ties and expands upon the prophecies of Joel, in particular this verse.

Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.


When we continue reading in Amos past chapter one we see that the description continues of the punishment of nations. When we get to chapter 5 we see the day of the Lord mentioned as well like it is in Joel 3.

Amo 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.
Amo 5:16 Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the Lord, saith thus; Wailing shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to wailing.
Amo 5:17 And in all vineyards shall be wailing: for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD.
Amo 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
Amo 5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
Amo 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?


The punishment of Israel spoken of in previous chapters is linked to the DOTL here in chapter 5.

Amo 9:8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.
Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
Amo 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.
Amo 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
Amo 9:12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.
Amo 9:13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.
Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.


The destruction of Judah is compared to sifting Israel among the nations. They will be planted in their land and pulled up no longer. After the punishment of Israel that Amos speaks of we have Israel in their land forever. That matches the timing set forth in Joel 3. So I agree with Barnes notes on the bible in this case. The context determines the timing in this case. Amos is speaking of the end of the last 7 years.

Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Seeker
 
Posts: 2168
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby benny balerio on Wed May 04, 2011 11:12 am

Seeker wrote:Hi Mark,

Isn't this a fulfilled prophecy?


Well I am not so sure it is.

Amo 1:2 And he said, The LORD will roar from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.

When was the Lord physically present to roar "from" Zion? When did He utter His voice from Jerusalem? Here's Barnes notes for the Lord roaring from Zion.

The Lord will roar - Amos joins on his prophecy to the end of Joel's, in order at once in its very opening to attest the oneness of their mission, and to prepare people's minds to see, that his own prophecy was an expansion of those words, declaring the nearer and coming judgments of God. Those nearer judgments, however, of which he spake, were but the preludes of the judgments of the Great Day which Joel foretold, and of that last terrible voice of Christ, "the Lion of the tribe of Judah," of whom Jacob prophesies; "He couched, He lay down as a lion, and as a young lion; who shall raise Him up?" Genesis 49:9. God is said to "utter His" awful "voice from Zion and Jerusalem," because there He had set His Name, there He was present in His Church. It was, as it were, His own place, which He had hallowed by tokens of His presence, although "the heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain Him." In the outset of his prophecy, Amos warned Israel, that there, not among themselves in their separated state, God dwelt. Jeremiah, in using these same words toward Judah, speaks not of Jerusalem, but of heaven; "The Lord shall roar from on high, and utter His voice from His holy habitation" Jeremiah 25:30. The prophecy is to the ten tribes or to the pagan: God speaks out of the Church. He uttereth His Voice out of Jerusalem, as He saith, "Out of Zion shall go forth, the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem" Isaiah 2:3, "where was the Temple and the worship of God, to shew that God was not in the cities of Israel, that is, in Dan and Bethel, where were the golden calves, nor in the royal cities of Samaria and Jezreel, but in the true religion which was then in Zion and Jerusalem."

http://bible.cc/amos/1-2.htm


Barnes seems to indicate the same thing I read in this chapter. The roaring out of Zion ties and expands upon the prophecies of Joel, in particular this verse.

Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.


When we continue reading in Amos past chapter one we see that the description continues of the punishment of nations. When we get to chapter 5 we see the day of the Lord mentioned as well like it is in Joel 3.

Amo 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.
Amo 5:16 Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the Lord, saith thus; Wailing shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to wailing.
Amo 5:17 And in all vineyards shall be wailing: for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD.
Amo 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
Amo 5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
Amo 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?


The punishment of Israel spoken of in previous chapters is linked to the DOTL here in chapter 5.

Amo 9:8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.
Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
Amo 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.
Amo 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
Amo 9:12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.
Amo 9:13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.
Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.


The destruction of Judah is compared to sifting Israel among the nations. They will be planted in their land and pulled up no longer. After the punishment of Israel that Amos speaks of we have Israel in their land forever. That matches the timing set forth in Joel 3. So I agree with Barnes notes on the bible in this case. The context determines the timing in this case. Amos is speaking of the end of the last 7 years.

Peace,
Seeker

The scriptures from the first chapter of Amos....is a past prophecy...as in ancient past already fulfilled.
The scriptures from the fifth chapter of Amos....is a future Day of the Lord prophecy(Daniels 70th week)
The scriptures of the 9th chapter of Amos.....is an present ongoing and future prophecy that rides into Daniels 70th week.
I must be really tired...too many typos...................The amos scriptures that you quote are not connected to the Damascus Isaiah 17;1 prophecy.
User avatar
benny balerio
 
Posts: 1536
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:00 am

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby Seeker on Thu May 05, 2011 7:23 am

In this post I will continue to build the case for Isaiah 17 occuring at the end of the last 7 years when God judges the nations. The story of Isaiah 17 begins before Isaiah 17. When we read a book we generally will start at the first chapter and read to the last. The first chapters generally lay the foundation for the rest of the book. Context,context,context is like location,location,location in real estate it is the most important thing we should pay attention to when reading scripture. The failure to do so will jeopardize our ability to understand what we are reading and properly arrange events according to their timing in the last days. To understand Isaiah 17 it is critical that we read several chapters before Isaiah 17. The story actually begins back in Isaiah 10 with the AC attacking Israel. We know that occurs at Armageddon setting the timing for Isaiah 10.

Isa 10:3 And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory?
Isa 10:4 Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
Isa 10:6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.


Here we see God sending the Assyrian to tread Israel down like mire in the streets. The Assyrian is the rod of God's anger and what He uses to punish Israel in the last days.

Isa 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.
Isa 10:13 For he saith, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man:


It will come to pass that when the Lord has performed His "whole work" upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem He will punish the king of Assyria. When has God performed His whole work in Jerusalem? That doesn't happen until the end of the last 7 years when His "whole" work is done there. The Assyrian stumbles on the same block as Nebuchadnezzar when he proclaimed it was he that built Babylon into what it was. God used Babylon to punish Israel just as He will use the Assyrian when His whole work has been performed on Jerusalem. So now we have some clues that the Assyrian attacks Israel near the end of time.

Isa 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
Isa 10:21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.


Isaiah 10:21 nails the timing for us without doubt. The remnant of Jacob (Israel) return to the mighty God. We know that occurs after Armageddon so we can now set a definite time frame for Isaiah 10, the end of the last 7 years. The battle descriptions continue to the end of Isaiah 10.

Isa 10:33 Behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, shall lop the bough with terror: and the high ones of stature shall be hewn down, and the haughty shall be humbled.
Isa 10:34 And he shall cut down the thickets of the forest with iron, and Lebanon shall fall by a mighty one.
Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.


After the Assyrian is defeated in Isaiah 10 we see a description of Jesus coming forth followed by a classic millennial passage...the wolf dwelling with the lamb and a child leading them. This makes perfect sense. The Assyrian is defeated at the end of the last 7 years and then we see Jesus reigning on earth during the millennium directly following the description of the defeat of the Assyrian.

Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.


Here we see that the Lord gathers the remnant a second time from among their enemies lands and the four corners of earth. Another definite timestamp of the end of the last 7 years.

Isa 11:15 And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.
Isa 11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.


The Lord will utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea and there will be a highway for His remnant which are left in Assyria. It will be as the Exodus in the days of Moses. Israel will be delivered. Again this is definitely millennial in timing.

Isa 12:1 And in that day thou shalt say, O LORD, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me.

Isa 12:6 Cry out and shout, thou inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee.


The beginning of chapter 12 references chapter 11 with the phrase "And in that day". It is obvious again at the end of chapter 12 where we see the Lord in the midst of those in Zion. We know Jesus dwells in Zion after the end of the last 7 years. So here again in Isaiah 12 we are talking about the end of the last 7 years.

Isa 13:4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
Isa 13:5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.


Isaiah 13 is also set at the end of the last 7 years. We see the DOTL in Isaiah 13:6.

Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.


Here we have the DOTL when God returns to destroy the sinners out of the land. Next we see the cosmic signs (sun/moon/stars dark). They occur immediately after the tribulation of Matthew 24 which begins at the AOD. Daniel 9 tells us the AOD is near the middle of the last 7 years. The tribulation lasts 3 1/2 years (Dan 7, Rev 13). Since the cosmic signs occur "immediately" after the 3 1/2 year tribulation we can know that the cosmic signs occur very near the end of the last 7 years but just before the return of Christ. So again we can timestamp Isaiah 13 to the end of the last 7 years as well. Seeing a pattern here yet? So far every chapter from Isaiah 10-13 has been talking about the same timeframe, the end of the last 7 years.

Isa 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

In Isaiah 14 we have the Lord having mercy on Jacob and set Israel in their own land. That's an easy one so again chapter 14 speaks of the end of the last 7 years.

Isa 14:24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
Isa 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
Isa 14:26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
Isa 14:27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?


Here's the Assyrian again falling in Israel. Notice also God's stated purposal. This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth..."the whole earth"...This falling of the Assryian is part of God's plan purposed upon the whole earth. And this is the hand stretched out upon all nations. We have seen God condemn Assyria, Babylon, and Egypt so far as we have been reading these chapters that focus on the end of the last 7 years. This is not an isolated partial condemnation this is the whole earth affected. So what Isaiah is
laying out in these chapters is basically the wrath of God broken down into sections involving different nations.

Isa 10:24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.
Isa 10:25 For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction.

Isa 10:34 And he shall cut down the thickets of the forest with iron, and Lebanon shall fall by a mighty one.

Isa 11:14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.
Isa 11:15 And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.
Isa 11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.


We also see the Philistines, Edom and Moab (Jordan), Ammon (Syria) as part of the mix.

Isa 13:4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.

Again we kingdoms of nations gatthered together (Armageddon). The timing scattered throughout these chapters all match and point to the end of the last 7 years plus a multitude of nations being discussed.

Isa 15:1 The burden of Moab. Because in the night Ar of Moab is laid waste, and brought to silence; because in the night Kir of Moab is laid waste, and brought to silence;

Isaiah 15 goes into detail concerning Moab.

Isa 16:5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
Isa 16:6 We have heard of the pride of Moab; he is very proud: even of his haughtiness, and his pride, and his wrath: but his lies shall not be so.


Isaiah 16 continues the Moab story with a clear timestamp in Isaiah 16:5 again pointing to the end of the last 7 years.

Isa 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

All of that context brings us to Isaiah 17 where we see the destruction of Damascus. So again we look for timing clues.

Isa 17:7 At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 17:8 And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made, either the groves, or the images.


When will men look to their Maker and have respect of the Holy One of Israel? When will they not look to altars, groves, or images? Again this is when Israel returns to the Lord near the end of the last 7 years.

Isa 17:13 The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.

Damascus goes down with the nations as we have been reading. Damascus is just another of the many that receive the wrath of God at the end of the last 7 years.

Isa 18:1 Woe to the land shadowing with wings, which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia:
Isa 18:2 That sendeth ambassadors by the sea, even in vessels of bulrushes upon the waters, saying, Go, ye swift messengers, to a nation scattered and peeled, to a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden down, whose land the rivers have spoiled!
Isa 18:3 All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye.
Isa 18:4 For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest.
Isa 18:5 For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches.
Isa 18:6 They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall summer upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them.
Isa 18:7 In that time shall the present be brought unto the LORD of hosts of a people scattered and peeled, and from a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled, to the place of the name of the LORD of hosts, the mount Zion.


All ye inhabitants of the world and dwellers on earth...definitely addressed to the whole world which again points to the end of the last 7 years. And the story goes on in Isaiah 19.

Isa 19:23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
Isa 19:24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
Isa 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.


And yet again we are talking about the end of the last 7 years here in Isaiah 19. The timing matches from Isaiah 10 through Isaiah 19 and that timing always points to the end of the last 7 years. So Damascus indeed is destroyed but it happens when the rest of the nations are destroyed during the wrath of God.

Peace,
Seeker
Last edited by Seeker on Thu May 05, 2011 8:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Seeker
 
Posts: 2168
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby benny balerio on Thu May 05, 2011 7:32 am

Seeker wrote:In this post I will continue to build the case for Isaiah 17 occuring at the end of the last 7 years when God judges the nations. The story

of Isaiah 17 begins before Isaiah 17. When we read a book we generally will start at the first chapter and read to the last. The first

chapters generally lay the foundation for the rest of the book. Context,context,context is like location,location,location in real estate it is

the most important thing we should pay attention to when reading scripture. The failure to do so will jeopardize our ability to understand

what we are reading and properly arrange events according to their timing in the last days. To understand Isaiah 17 it is critical that we

read several chapters before Isaiah 17. The story actually begins back in Isaiah 10 with the AC attacking Israel. We know that occurs at

Armageddon setting the timing for Isaiah 10.

Isa 10:3 And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye

flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory?
Isa 10:4 Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned

away, but his hand is stretched out still.
Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
Isa 10:6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and

to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.


Here we see God sending the Assyrian to tread Israel down like mire in the streets. The Assyrian is the rod of God's anger and what He

uses to punish Israel in the last days.

Isa 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on

Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.
Isa 10:13 For he saith, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of

the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man:


It will come to pass that when the Lord has performed His "whole work" upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem He will punish the king of

Assyria. When has God performed His whole work in Jerusalem? That doesn't happen until the end of the last 7 years when His "whole"

work is done there. The Assyrian stumbles on the same block as Nebuchadnezzar when he proclaimed it was he that built Babylon into

what it was. God used Babylon to punish Israel just as He will use the Assyrian when His whole work has been performed on

Jerusalem. So now we have some clues that the Assyrian attacks Israel near the end of time.

Isa 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of

Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
Isa 10:21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.


Isaiah 10:21 nails the timing for us without doubt. The remnant of Jacob (Israel) return to the mighty God. We know that occurs after

Armageddon so we can now set a definite time frame for Isaiah 10, the end of the last 7 years. The battle descriptions continue to the

end of Isaiah 10.

Isa 10:33 Behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, shall lop the bough with terror: and the high ones of stature shall be

hewn down, and the haughty shall be humbled.
Isa 10:34 And he shall cut down the thickets of the forest with iron, and Lebanon shall fall by a mighty one.
Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit

of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither

reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth

with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the

fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.


After the Assyrian is defeated in Isaiah 10 we see a description of Jesus coming forth followed by a classic millennial passage...the wolf

dwelling with the lamb and a child leading them. This makes perfect sense. The Assyrian is defeated at the end of the last 7 years and

then we see Jesus reigning on earth during the millennium directly following the description of the defeat of the Assyrian.

Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the

remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from

Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of

Judah from the four corners of the earth.


Here we see that the Lord gathers the remnant a second time from among their enemies lands and the four corners of earth. Another

definite timestamp of the end of the last 7 years.

Isa 11:15 And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake

his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.
Isa 11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day

that he came up out of the land of Egypt.


The Lord will utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea and there will be a highway for His remnant which are left in Assyria. It will

be as the Exodus in the days of Moses. Israel will be delivered. Again this is definitely millennial in timing.

Isa 12:1 And in that day thou shalt say, O LORD, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is

turned away, and thou comfortedst me.

Isa 12:6 Cry out and shout, thou inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee.


The beginning of chapter 12 references chapter 11 with the phrase "And in that day". That is obvious again at the end of chapter 12

where we see the Lord in the midst of those in Zion. we know Jesus dwells in Zion after the end of the last 7 years. So here again in

Isaiah 12 we are talking about the end of the last 7 years.

Isa 13:4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of

nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
Isa 13:5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole

land.
Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.


Isaiah 13 is also set at the end of the last 7 years. We see the DOTL in Isaiah 13:6.

Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he

shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and

the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease,

and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.


Here we have the DOTL when God returns to destroy the sinners out of the land. Next we see the cosmic signs (sun/moon/stars dark).

They occur immediately after the tribulation of Matthew 24 which begins at the AOD. Daniel 9 tells us the AOD is near the middle of the

last 7 years. The tribulation lasts 3 1/2 years (Dan 7, Rev 13). Since the cosmic signs occur "immediately" after the 3 1/2 year

tribulation we can know that the cosmic signs occur very near the end of the last 7 years but just before the return of Christ. So again

we can timestamp Isaiah 13 to the end of the last 7 years as well. Seeing a pattern here yet? So far every chapter from Isaiah 10-13

has been talking about the same timeframe, the end of the last 7 years.

Isa 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the

strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.


In Isaiah 14 we have the Lord having mercy on Jacob and set Israel in their own land. That's an easy one so again chapter 14 speaks of

the end of the last 7 years.

Isa 14:24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have

purposed, so shall it stand:
Isa 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off

them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
Isa 14:26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
Isa 14:27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it

back?


Here's the Assyrian again falling in Israel. Notice also God's stated purposal. This is the purpose that is proposed upon the whole

earth..."the whole earth"...This falling of the Assryian is part of God's plan purposed upon the whole earth. And this is the hand stretched

out upon all nations. We have seen God condemn Assyria, Babylon, and Egypt so far as we have been reading these chapters that

focus on the end of the last 7 years. This is not an isolated partial condemnation this is the whole earth affected. So what Isaiah is

laying out in these chapters is basically the wrath of God broken down into sections involving different nations.

Isa 10:24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian:

he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.
Isa 10:25 For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction.

Isa 10:34 And he shall cut down the thickets of the forest with iron, and Lebanon shall fall by a mighty one.

Isa 11:14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall

lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.
Isa 11:15 And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the

river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.
Isa 11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day

that he came up out of the land of Egypt.


We also see the Philistines, Edom and Moab (Jordan), Ammon (Syria) as part of the mix.

Isa 13:4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of

nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.


Again we kingdoms of nations gatthered together (Armageddon). The timing scattered throughout these chapters all match and point to

the end of the last 7 years plus a multitude of nations being discussed.

Isa 15:1 The burden of Moab. Because in the night Ar of Moab is laid waste, and brought to silence; because in the

night Kir of Moab is laid waste, and brought to silence;


Isaiah 15 goes into detail concerning Moab.

Isa 16:5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging,

and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
Isa 16:6 We have heard of the pride of Moab; he is very proud: even of his haughtiness, and his pride, and his wrath: but his lies shall

not be so.


Isaiah 16 continues the Moab story with a clear timestamp in Isaiah 16:5 again pointing to the end of the last 7 years.

Isa 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous

heap.


All of that context brings us to Isaiah 17 where we see the destruction of Damascus. So again we look for timing clues.

Isa 17:7 At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 17:8 And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made, either the

groves, or the images.


When will men look to their Maker and have respect of the Holy One of Israel? When will they not look to altars, groves, or images?

Again this is when Israel returns to the Lord near the end of the last 7 years.

Isa 17:13 The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off,

and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.


Damascus goes down with the nations as we have been reading. Damascus is just another of the many that receive the wrath of God at

the end of the last 7 years.

Isa 18:1 Woe to the land shadowing with wings, which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia:
Isa 18:2 That sendeth ambassadors by the sea, even in vessels of bulrushes upon the waters, saying, Go, ye swift messengers, to a

nation scattered and peeled, to a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden down, whose land the rivers

have spoiled!
Isa 18:3 All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he

bloweth a trumpet, hear ye.
Isa 18:4 For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like

a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest.
Isa 18:5 For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with

pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches.
Isa 18:6 They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall summer upon

them, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them.
Isa 18:7 In that time shall the present be brought unto the LORD of hosts of a people scattered and peeled, and from a people terrible

from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled, to the place of the name of

the LORD of hosts, the mount Zion.


All ye inhabitants of the world and dwellers on earth...definitely addressed to the whole world which again points to the end of the last 7 years. And the story goes on in Isaiah 19.

Isa 19:23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
Isa 19:24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
Isa 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.


And yet again we are talking about the end of the last 7 years here in Isaiah 19. The timing matches from Isaiah 10 through Isaiah 19 and that timing always points to the end of the last 7 years. So Damascus indeed is destroyed but it happens when the rest of the nations are destroyed during the wrath of God.

Peace,
Seeker

I have already proven that Gog is not an islamic antichrist,...but yet you still hold onto what cannot be and try vainly to make it so.
Allow me to cut through all the chase by just asking you a simple question,...one that I am sure that you did not contemplate.

When the Lord returns to the earth to fight at Armageddon,....."When is it too late for man to accept Jesus as his Lord and savior?"
The question that I present wipes out any notion that Damascus is destroyed during Armageddon,...anyone with the gift of discernment will pick up on this.
User avatar
benny balerio
 
Posts: 1536
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:00 am

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby Seeker on Thu May 05, 2011 8:41 am

Benny can you stay on the topic? The topic is Damascus. The Isaiah 10-19 proves Isaiah 17 occurs at the end of last 7 years. If you want to talk about Gog or the rapture please do so in another thread.

Thanks,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Seeker
 
Posts: 2168
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby benny balerio on Thu May 05, 2011 9:08 am

Seeker wrote:Benny can you stay on the topic? The topic is Damascus. The Isaiah 10-19 proves Isaiah 17 occurs at the end of last 7 years. If you want to talk about Gog or the rapture please do so in another thread.

Thanks,
Seeker

"The cities mentioned in verses 9 and 10 came under Assyrian control between 740 and 721 B.C.

When the Lord returns to the earth to fight at Armageddon,....."When is it too late for man to accept Jesus as his Lord and savior?"
The question that I present wipes out any notion that Damascus is destroyed during Armageddon,...anyone with the gift of discernment will pick up on this.
User avatar
benny balerio
 
Posts: 1536
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:00 am

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby jgilberAZ on Thu May 05, 2011 10:52 am

benny balerio wrote:The question that I present wipes out any notion that Damascus is destroyed during Armageddon,...anyone with the gift of discernment will pick up on this.


So, if we don't see it the way you do, we don't have "the gift of discernment?"

Good grief.

Seeker, why bother?
2 Timothy 2:24a..And the servant of the Lord must not strive ...
The meaning is, that the servant of Christ should be a man of peace. He should not indulge in the feelings which commonly give rise to contention, and which commonly characterize it. He should not struggle for mere victory, even when endeavoring to maintain truth; but should do this, in all cases, with a kind spirit, and a mild temper; with entire candor; with nothing designed to provoke and irritate an adversary; and so that, whatever may be the result of the discussion, "the bond of peace" may, if possible, be preserved.
.
User avatar
jgilberAZ
 
Posts: 1895
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:49 am
Location: Arizona

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby Exit40 on Thu May 05, 2011 10:57 am

"When is it too late for man to accept Jesus as his Lord and savior?"


When you refuse to repent even though you can see the Lord coming. And not everybody who calls out to His name will be saved either.

God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
User avatar
Exit40
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 9194
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:46 am

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby benny balerio on Thu May 05, 2011 11:19 am

Exit40 wrote:
"When is it too late for man to accept Jesus as his Lord and savior?"


When you refuse to repent even though you can see the Lord coming. And not everybody who calls out to His name will be saved either.

God Bless You

David

Thanks David for replying:
So according to what I understand that you are saying here,...you are really stating that if one has not asked the lord into his heart as they see the Lord descending towards the earth in all His glory,..that it will be too late once He reaches the earth to fight the wicked at the campain of Armageddon.
That is what you are saying...Correct?
User avatar
benny balerio
 
Posts: 1536
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:00 am

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby Seeker on Fri May 06, 2011 5:49 am

Hi Jeff,

So, if we don't see it the way you do, we don't have "the gift of discernment?"

Good grief.

Seeker, why bother?


We can just ignore Benny and let him ramble on. There is no scripture that would convince him anyway. I ran across Benny years ago at another forum and he hasn't chaged a bit...lol. As far as his question repentance is open even into the wrath of God.

Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.


Following the cosmic signs we see that "whosoever" shall call on the name of the Lord will be delivered.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


The cosmic signs occur after the 3 1/2 year tribulation that starts at the AOD. So the cosmic signs occur near the very end of the last 7 years. After the cosmic signs in Joel 2:31 there is deliverance for anyone that calls on the name of the Lord. Obadiah confirms that as well here.

Oba 1:15 For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
Oba 1:16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.
Oba 1:17 But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.


We see deliverance upon mount Zion near the DOTL.

Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.


Repentance is availible even during the wrath of God they just won't do it. Deliverance is availible when Jesus is reigning from Jerusalem as Joel 2:32 shows. It matches the Matt 24 timing of the events as well.

Isa 18:3 All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye.
Isa 18:4 For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest.
Isa 18:5 For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches.
Isa 18:6 They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall summer upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them.
Isa 18:7 In that time shall the present be brought unto the LORD of hosts of a people scattered and peeled, and from a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled, to the place of the name of the LORD of hosts, the mount Zion.
Isa 19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.

Isa 19:24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
Isa 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.


All ye inhabitants of the world and dwellers on the earth...definite world wide event here. Jesus returns to mount Zion and we see the punishment of Egypt..Behold the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud and punishes Egypt. In that day Israel, Egypt, and Assyria are joined and Blessed are His people in Egypt. Here we see people saved in Egypt after Jesus has returned and began to reign.

Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Joel 2 says it all there will be deliverance for whosoever will call on the Lord. In Jerusalem there will be deliverance. Jesus is in Jerusalem after He has defeated the armies of Armageddon delivering whoever calls on Him. Jeff the real deal with Benny is that he is like many other pre-tribbers. They refuse to read the words for what they say because if they do they would have to abandon pre-trib and that they will not do regardless of what the scriptures say. The really nice thing about Benny though is that I get a great opportunity to throw scriptures out to those lurking and following the conversation. I am sure I cannot convince him so just use him to show others who may be following what the scriptures actually say.

Blessings,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Seeker
 
Posts: 2168
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby Exit40 on Fri May 06, 2011 7:18 am

benny balerio wrote:Thanks David for replying:
So according to what I understand that you are saying here,...you are really stating that if one has not asked the lord into his heart as they see the Lord descending towards the earth in all His glory,..that it will be too late once He reaches the earth to fight the wicked at the campain of Armageddon.
That is what you are saying...Correct?


I see that you have misunderstood my response, no doubt because I haven't gotten your question straight either. So for clarification, When you REFUSE to REPENT even though you see Him coming, I'm sure you will have no chance at Salvation. Even so, the Lord already knows who the goats are. And it is true not everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord will be saved. Some will be spued from His mouth. You just can't fool The Almighty, you know. :oops: Too late for those.

God Bless you

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
User avatar
Exit40
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 9194
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:46 am

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby benny balerio on Mon May 09, 2011 2:22 am

Exit40 wrote:
benny balerio wrote:Thanks David for replying:
So according to what I understand that you are saying here,...you are really stating that if one has not asked the lord into his heart as they see the Lord descending towards the earth in all His glory,..that it will be too late once He reaches the earth to fight the wicked at the campain of Armageddon.
That is what you are saying...Correct?


I see that you have misunderstood my response, no doubt because I haven't gotten your question straight either. So for clarification, When you REFUSE to REPENT even though you see Him coming, I'm sure you will have no chance at Salvation. Even so, the Lord already knows who the goats are. And it is true not everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord will be saved. Some will be spued from His mouth. You just can't fool The Almighty, you know. :oops: Too late for those.

God Bless you

David

For once we agree with each other. :banana: .....I agree that if one has not come to Jesus "BEFORE " He physically appears in the heavens,..that it is absolutely too late!
I say that for several reasons ,..in which I will point out to seeker who seems not to thoroughly or at least attempt to research definitions of words.
User avatar
benny balerio
 
Posts: 1536
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:00 am

Re: Damascus and Isaiah 17

Postby benny balerio on Mon May 09, 2011 2:45 am

Seeker wrote:Hi Jeff,

So, if we don't see it the way you do, we don't have "the gift of discernment?"

Good grief.

Seeker, why bother?


We can just ignore Benny and let him ramble on. There is no scripture that would convince him anyway. I ran across Benny years ago at another forum and he hasn't chaged a bit...lol. As far as his question repentance is open even into the wrath of God.

Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.


Following the cosmic signs we see that "whosoever" shall call on the name of the Lord will be delivered.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


The cosmic signs occur after the 3 1/2 year tribulation that starts at the AOD. So the cosmic signs occur near the very end of the last 7 years. After the cosmic signs in Joel 2:31 there is deliverance for anyone that calls on the name of the Lord. Obadiah confirms that as well here.

Oba 1:15 For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
Oba 1:16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.
Oba 1:17 But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.


We see deliverance upon mount Zion near the DOTL.

Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.


Repentance is availible even during the wrath of God they just won't do it. Deliverance is availible when Jesus is reigning from Jerusalem as Joel 2:32 shows. It matches the Matt 24 timing of the events as well.

Isa 18:3 All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye.
Isa 18:4 For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest.
Isa 18:5 For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches.
Isa 18:6 They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall summer upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them.
Isa 18:7 In that time shall the present be brought unto the LORD of hosts of a people scattered and peeled, and from a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled, to the place of the name of the LORD of hosts, the mount Zion.
Isa 19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.

Isa 19:24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
Isa 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.


All ye inhabitants of the world and dwellers on the earth...definite world wide event here. Jesus returns to mount Zion and we see the punishment of Egypt..Behold the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud and punishes Egypt. In that day Israel, Egypt, and Assyria are joined and Blessed are His people in Egypt. Here we see people saved in Egypt after Jesus has returned and began to reign.

Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Joel 2 says it all there will be deliverance for whosoever will call on the Lord. In Jerusalem there will be deliverance. Jesus is in Jerusalem after He has defeated the armies of Armageddon delivering whoever calls on Him. Jeff the real deal with Benny is that he is like many other pre-tribbers. They refuse to read the words for what they say because if they do they would have to abandon pre-trib and that they will not do regardless of what the scriptures say. The really nice thing about Benny though is that I get a great opportunity to throw scriptures out to those lurking and following the conversation. I am sure I cannot convince him so just use him to show others who may be following what the scriptures actually say.

Blessings,
Seeker

You Quote:
We can just ignore Benny and let him ramble on. There is no scripture that would convince him anyway. I ran across Benny years ago at another forum and he hasn't chaged a bit...lol. As far as his question repentance is open even into the wrath of God.

Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.


Following the cosmic signs we see that "whosoever" shall call on the name of the Lord will be delivered.

You Quote:
As far as his question repentance is open even into the wrath of God.

My Reply:
I agree only up to a point,...because considering that the age of grace came to an end at the pre-trib rapture,...one must establish his faith by works during Daniels 70th week.
Even the Sheep and Goat Judgement reveals this fact.
The devils believe that Jesus is Lord and they tremble.

Joel 3;32.............the Word "Delivered" is not a Word given to mean saved as in given eternal life,...but it means rescued as in physicly saved from harm.
When the midnight cry came the wise Bridemaids were quickly able to get ready. They had both lamps and the oil to enable them to burn. But it was at that late hour, in spite of all their intentions and expectations, in spite of their obvious profession of being some of those waiting for the bridegroom, the foolish discovered to their dismay that they were not, in fact, ready.
User avatar
benny balerio
 
Posts: 1536
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:00 am


Return to Prophecy Debate Area

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests