"And the stars shall from Heaven"

[Tevye]

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"
- Yeshua - Matthew 24:29

In certain biblical references
angels are described as "stars"
could the visual of falling "stars" in Matthew 24
be the angels sent downward towards Earth from heaven?
Sent down to the earth, by the Lord, in order to gather the elect.

If we look closer into the original language of the written word we can see
that the greek word for fall could be used for our english word "fall" or "to descend."
In a descent here there seems to be more of an intended purpose than just a falling.
A descending star in this context of scripture seems to indicate a purpose
as described in the following verses of Matthew 24
when the angels are sent to gather the elect.

Instead of being "falling" stars,
which would be physically impossible
as only one actual star would consume the whole Earth.
The verse could imply "descending" angels,
angels that would in a sense, appears as streams of falling light, that light up the sky.

This perspective puts the trifold sign of His coming into a new light.
The sun going dark, the moon giving up it's light (and for what purpose?)
for the natural lights to give way for the appearing of the Son of Man in glory.
And for the visual of His glory upon His angels as they descend to gather up His bride.

Imagine seeing hundreds of thousands of descending, or falling points of light
and as they draw closer to the face of the Earth, they begin to take shape, as human
a glowing figure approaches you and it's an angel from the Lord. Wow.

"light up the sky" - The Afters - (video link)

[The Orange Mailman]

I’m not saying I agree or disagree, but here is Isaiah 34 in a couple of different translations to allow for some further insight.

KJV
1 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. 2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. 3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. 4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. 5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment. 6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.


ESV
1 Draw near, O nations, to hear,
and give attention, O peoples!
Let the earth hear, and all that fills it;
the world, and all that comes from it.
2 For the Lord is enraged against all the nations,
and furious against all their host;
he has devoted them to destruction,
has given them over for slaughter.
3 Their slain shall be cast out,
and the stench of their corpses shall rise;
the mountains shall flow with their blood.
4 All the host of heaven shall rot away,
and the skies roll up like a scroll.
All their host shall fall,
as leaves fall from the vine,
like leaves falling from the fig tree.
5 For my sword has drunk its fill in the heavens;
behold, it descends for judgment upon Edom,
upon the people I have devoted to destruction.
6 The Lord has a sword; it is sated with blood;
it is gorged with fat,
with the blood of lambs and goats,
with the fat of the kidneys of rams.

Also notice in the Matthew 24 passage that you quoted how the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

The Orange Mailman

[Tevye]

Hey there O.M.
So do you think it's the actual stars or the fallen angels in the sign?
I was thinking that the fallen angels activity would happen midweek
as the authority from the dragon would be given to the beast at that point
and then he would have the minions of the dragon to fulfill his agenda.
If that is when the dragon sweeps them from heaven with his tail as in Rev. 12.
Then this would give way to the stars in the sign, being descending angels, possibly.

I had also thought that the falling stars could be a meteor shower
but then I thought...
Imagine a bridegroom coming for His bride, He is so filled will joy at that moment
even though He is about to do His work of wrath, He is going out to meet her.
The lights are dimmed, the show of His glory is radiant with love and joyfulness for the moment,
and then as he approaches her, instead of tossing rice He has people lined up to throw rocks at her.
Sounds strange huh? I was wondering why anyone would be out to "look up" for a redemption
if there was a massive meteor shower as could be the case with that scenario.
Unless it was a minor shower. I suppose I was imagining that the context of the verses
could allow for the stars in Matthew to be His angels descending to gather the elect
as they are being sent shortly after the sign is mentioned.
Wishful thinking on my part, or maybe just an inflated imagination?
I've tried to imagine what that day would be like, and how it will be.
I've been working on a short story for that day, when He comes.
It's a little longer than short but it seems to have turned out well.

[The Orange Mailman]

Hey Tevye-

I could see it both ways. The stars falling from the heaven could be a meteor shower, although I would lean toward major meteor shower, or it could be that actual angelic beings are being shaken from their heavenly strongholds since the powers of heaven will be shaken at that time.

The third of the stars in Revelation 12:4 are the third of the angels that rebelled with Satan at the beginning of time. The reason this cannot be end times is that it occurs before the birth of the One who will rule the nations with the rod of iron, and that is Jesus. Beginning in chapter 12, the vision backs up a bit to give background information on the dragon so we can know more about this adversary that we will face during the great tribulation.

The reason why I referenced the Isaiah 34 passage is that the language seems to lend itself more to a heavenly reclamation as the sword of the LORD descends for judgment. The sword is not entirely for judgment upon the earth as the passage shows there is work in the heavens for it to do.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman

[Seeker]

The third of the stars in Revelation 12:4 are the third of the angels that rebelled with Satan at the beginning of time. The reason this cannot be end times is that it occurs before the birth of the One who will rule the nations with the rod of iron, and that is Jesus. Beginning in chapter 12, the vision backs up a bit to give background information on the dragon so we can know more about this adversary that we will face during the great tribulation.

Hey Orange how ya been nice to see you again after my extended vacation. I was wondering what you think about Satan being cast down in Rev 12 as taking place when Jesus walked the earth. I can see Herod fulfilling part of Rev 12 along with Mary and Joseph hiding Jesus for around 3 years in the wilderness of Egypt. We also have this from Jesus.

Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

And we also have this hint.

Mar 3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
Mar 3:24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
Mar 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
Mar 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

It seems like Jesus is saying He bound Satan and spoiled his goods (cast out demons). If Satan was cast down while Jesus walked the earth that would explain a lot of bad things about our world since Jesus left. It would also make the verse about Satan as prince of this world make a lot of sense. And it really makes Pergamos/Satan's seat-dwelling place make a lot of sense to me. I have longed sensed scripture pointing to an actual earthly kingdom for Satan. If he was cast down already and controlling the world that explains the evil and why bad things happen and such questions. Whatcha think?

Peace,
Seeker

[Tevye]

Hey Tevye-

I could see it both ways. The stars falling from the heaven could be a meteor shower, although I would lean toward major meteor shower, or it could be that actual angelic beings are being shaken from their heavenly strongholds since the powers of heaven will be shaken at that time.

Howwwwdy!
That reminds me of a song, go figure.

"Take a ride back in history
Let's review the facts of eternity
To the children of Israel
And the burning sands and the desert heat
Bitter hearts in the wilderness
God saw that they would not confess
With a velvet touch and an iron hand
He dragged them to the promise land

And everything that can be will be
Everything that can be will be
Shaken, shaken, shaken, shaken
God is going to shake the whole thing down

Raise your hands children
Lift them high
Let's join our hearts
Walk in the light
There's a desert there's a wilderness
Seperating us from a better life
See, together we can walk through fire
We can face the flame
We can reach the higher
Ground that waits is the promise land
'Cause only faith and love will stand
And everything that can be will be
Everything that can be will be"

- Rachael Lampa - "Shaken"

[Yogi]

It's meteorites! To ancient men, just about anything in the sky was a "star". Planet= wandering star. Comet = hairy star, etc. Check out what I wrote about these things here: [url]thereturnofthechrist.com[/url]

[Tevye]

Hey Tevye-

I could see it both ways. The stars falling from the heaven could be a meteor shower, although I would lean toward major meteor shower, or it could be that actual angelic beings are being shaken from their heavenly strongholds since the powers of heaven will be shaken at that time.

The third of the stars in Revelation 12:4 are the third of the angels that rebelled with Satan at the beginning of time. The reason this cannot be end times is that it occurs before the birth of the One who will rule the nations with the rod of iron, and that is Jesus.

Mornin' O.M.
I was thinking about a part of what you are saying
and was pondering on it.
I think you're saying that the fallen angels had fallen at the begining of time
and therefore cannot be the falling stars of the sign in Matthew 24.
Would you say that they are still in the heavenly realm on some level
coming and going in a spiritual sense according to God's permissive will
and that at the middle of the 70th week of Daniel they will be
along with the dragon, cast down in a spiritual/physical form
out of the heavenly realm into the Earthly one?
Months or so prior to the sign in the sun, moon and "stars" event.

[The Orange Mailman]

'Sup Seeker-

There certainly is a progressive nature to Satan's demise. When Christ was here, Satan was powerless in His presence. The kingdom work had begun and there was nothing he could do to stop it. However, I still view the dragon's original fall from heaven in Revelation 12:3-4 as occurring on the seventh day of creation. When the disciples returned to Jesus, they were astounded at the power they had over demonic forces. Jesus exlains to them that He beheld Satan fall like lightning from heaven. His point is that the fall was instantaneous. Satan's demise was quick. But what is the timing here? Is Jesus stating that it happened like lightning as soon as He sent out the twelve? Or is Jesus stating that Satan was instantaneously cast out from heaven long ago, therefore his current demise is no great feat? Since the woman had not yet brought forth the man-child after he was cast to the earth, the fall of the dragon from heaven must have preceded the event of Messiah's birth.

Having said that, Satan's dominion is here on earth. Heavenly places are places that Christians currently have access to, Ephesians 2:6, they are not out in space somewhere. Satan still has access to these heavenly places and that is why we wrestle against powers of darkness in the heavenly places, Ephesians 6:12. It's just that things occur behind the veil. We can't see Satan and his minions. But he is here.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman

P.S. Welcome back... from...

[The Orange Mailman]

Hey Tevye-

I really didn't say one way or the other concerning whether the stars of Matthew 24:29 could be angels or not. I'm leaving it open. The heavenly realms are still infested with dark powers, Ephesians 6:12, Colossians 2:13-15 with Ephesians 3:10. These are the same heavenly realms that we as Christians are called to walk in, Ephesians 2:6. So perhaps there could be some heavenly cleansing that occurs as the powers of heaven are shaken according to Matthew 24:29. Also see Haggai 2:6-7, 21-22 with Hebrews 12:26-29. That's why I believe that Isaiah 34 could be referring to a heavenly cleansing as the sword of the LORD descends at the beginning of the Day of the LORD, although I'm not going to be dogmatic about it.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman

[Seeker]

Hi Orange,

So do you think that Satan will ever be banned from access to heaven prior to being bound for the 1,000 years? I have always thought of being thrown down from heaven to earth as him loosing access to heaven. It would seem by your answer that you don't feel that way.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

It appears that Satan is banished from heaven here in Rev 12:8...neither was their place found any more in heaven...leaves me with the impression that Satan looses His access to heaven as he is cast down to earth.

P.S. Welcome back... from...

The real world...lol.

Peace,
Seeker

[The Orange Mailman]

Hey Seeker-

Two different events are described in Revelation 12 as far as Satan's authority. In verses 3-4 we have events dating back to the beginning of creation. Beginning in verse 7, the passage picks up at the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week. Satan still has access to some heavenly places (obviously from Ephesians 6:12), but at the midpoint Michael presses the issue and he is cast to the earth knowing he only has a brief amount of time left, 1260 days to be exact. There must be some type of heavenly shaking at this time since the angels of the dragon are involved in this battle, albeit a losing battle. But Matthew 24:29 (which Tevye brings to our attention) shows that at the cosmic signs which end the great triblation there is also a heavenly shaking at this time.

Back to the question, are the stars which fall from heaven at the time of the cosmic signs angels, or are they something else? I'm open either way since stars does refer to angels in some passages in Revelation, and in Isaiah 34 it could be referring to a heavenly cleansing, but neither passage can be taken dogmatically that way.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman

[Tevye]

Well said O.M.
I suppose it will be one of those
wait and see, and see we will.
A day of wonders, well worth the waiting for.

[rizen]

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"
- Yeshua - Matthew 24:29

In certain biblical references
angels are described as "stars"
could the visual of falling "stars" in Matthew 24
be the angels sent downward towards Earth from heaven?

Hey Tevye,

The stars of heaven that "fall" in the context of Matt. 24:29 are associated with idolatry and all things evil (Deut. 4:15-20, 2 Kings 23). From my perspective, the stars falling to earth after a great heavenly shaking is primarily intending to convey a humbling. Sort of like the way we might say someone or something was "brought down to earth".

The co-texts for Matt. 24:29 are found in Rev. 6:13 and Rev. 12:16. Revelation 6:13 is a really important passage because it actually offers us a timing cue that draws on the typology of Pentecost:

And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. (Rev. 6:13)

The "mighty wind" of Rev. 6:13 coincides with the "mighty wind" of Pentecost in Acts 2:2. Since we know that Pentecost (Acts 2:16-21) is eschatologically connected to the Day of the Lord (Joel 2:28-32), this "mighty wind" in Rev. 6:13 should cause us to explore what that connection is. If we take a look at the historical pattern of Pentecost and examine it from an eschatological point of view, then it becomes clear what that connection is.

Historic Pattern of Pentecost
Jesus exits >>>>> (Gap) >>>>> Holy Spirit enters

Eschatological Pattern of Day of the Lord
Holy Spirit exits >>>>> (Gap) >>>>> Jesus enters

In the same way that the Holy Spirit descended after a period in which there was nothing to restrain evil, Jesus will descend after a period (the Great Tribulation) in which there is nothing to restrain evil. So we know this great heavenly shaking that takes place "after the tribulation of those days" (Matt. 24:29) specifically follows a period of time ( "great tribulation" of Matt. 24:21) in which there was no restrainer.

Revelation 6:13 also draws on the typology of Jesus hungering after having returned from a long journey (Mark 13:34-36) and cursing the fig tree (Matt. 21:18-22). The "untimely figs" that were cast from the fig tree were obviously not heeding the words of Jesus in Mark 13:37, therefore He came upon them like a thief (2 Peter 3:10).

If we look closer into the original language of the written word we can see
that the greek word for fall could be used for our english word "fall" or "to descend."
In a descent here there seems to be more of an intended purpose than just a falling.
A descending star in this context of scripture seems to indicate a purpose
as described in the following verses of Matthew 24
when the angels are sent to gather the elect.

The descent of Satan's army depicted in Revelation 12:16 is a literal event. Of course it isn't a descent from the heavens to the earth, rather it's a descent from earth to the bottomless pit. Satan and his army were cast to earth at the midpoint of the Seventieth Week in Rev. 12:9. This event depicted in Revelation 12:16 is a DoTL event ("after the tribulation of those days"), when the Antichrist sends his army against the Israelites that fled Jerusalem at the AoD (Matt. 24:15) and are now in (Edom?). The destruction of this earthly army runs concurrent with Isa. 34:1-6 and Isa. 25:8 (when death is swallowed in victory at the resurrection/rapture). This would explain why the word "harpazo" was used in Rev. 12:5 to describe the escape of Jesus from the clutches of Herod's army in Matt. 2:13. Jesus wasn't literally "caught up to God's throne" in Rev. 12:5, but Christians will be in Rev. 12:16. Their "descent" will run concurrent with our "ascent".

It should be noted that the defeat of Satan and his army at the DoTL isn't totally complete as he and his army later (5th trumpet) ascend from the bottomless pit. The ultimate purpose for this is shown in Rev. 11:13, when the murder (by the beast from bottomless pit after he ascends [Rev. 11:7]) and resurrection of the two witnesses draws in the final remnant of Christians before Armageddon. So in the broad context, we see how God is actually using Satan and his demonic army to bring in a "fullness" (both of time and people). The recurrent theme of Rev. 12 is the harpazo.

Fullness of transgressors (Dan. 8:23) - Satan and army cast down to earth at Midpoint of Seventieth Week. (Rev. 12:9) "Antichrist as thief" (1 Thess. 5:3) - harpazoes the wicked

Fullness of Gentiles (Rom. 11:25) - Satan and army cast down to bottomless pit at DoTL (Rev. 12:16) "Jesus as thief" (2 Peter 3:10) - harpazoes the righteous dead and alive/ harpazoes Israelites in wilderness (Edom?)

Fullness of Jerusalemite Remnant (Rev. 11:13) - Satan and army make war with Jerusalemite remnant at Armageddon (Rev. 12:17)- "Jesus as thief" (Rev. 16:15) - harpazoes Jerusalemites in Jerusalem

[Tevye]

I believe that God gave us our imagination center
and He did this for us to take His word and grow with it.
As we read His word we can look into the heart of God and see
His intention with love towards us in everything He has planed.

My intent here is not to establish doctrine or debate prophecy.
My hope is that we can think positively about the day when he comes
and imagine what the possibilities will be as He returns to gather us to Him.

I'm going to share a short story I've written
(In another thread)
it will be in segments, or short posts.
To God be the glory
great things He has done,
for now and on that day.

I dwell in Possibility --
A fairer House than Prose --
More numerous of Windows --
Superior for Doors --

Of Chambers as the Cedars --
Impregnable of Eye --
And for an Everlasting Roof
The Gambrels of the Sky --

Of Visitors -- the fairest --
For Occupation -- This --
The spreading wide of narrow Hands
To gather Paradise --

I love this poem. It has so many applications
-- spiritual, mental, physical, etc.
Instead of dwelling on the impossible we should put ourselves
in a place where the impossible is very much a possibility.
Even if the impossible is not reached we will go further
than we could have ever imagined possible.

[Seeker]

Hi Orange,

I found this as well.

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Joh 12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Now shall the prince of this world (Satan) be cast out. Cast out of where? The cross is where I see Satan defeated in scripture rather than at the garden. Here in John 12 the cross is mentioned in conjunction with the prince of this world being cast out. If that refers to Satan the only place I know he is cast out is out of heaven in Rev 12.

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

The prince of this world is judged. Again this is just after the cross where it is mentioned. I understand that Eph 6:12 refers to high places/heaven but all these other scriptures I keep finding seem to point to Satan's fall at the ministry of Jesus.

Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

It just seems to me that there is only Eph 6:12 against and many for. John 16:11 says that Satan is judged. Just as soon as Jesus left to be with the Father Satan began persecuting the church and Israel much like what is written in Rev 12.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

As far as the cosmic sign stars falling being angels I would tend to think they are physical objects such as comets/meteors because of the context of the cosmic sign events. For example here are the cosmic signs in Isaiah 13.

Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Isa 13:12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
Isa 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

The heavens are shaken and the earth is moved out of its place. As if something big smacked into the earth and sent it wobbling.

Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Every mountain and island were moved out of their place again signs of a massive physical disturbance. Heaven departed as a scroll. The word scroll is only used one other time in the bible.

Isa 34:2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.
Isa 34:3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Here again we see massive physical destruction associated with the heavens falling/rolled up. The cosmic signs accompany the return of Jesus. They occur as Jesus returns dispensing the wrath of God.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Here are the cosmic signs from Joel as well.

Joe 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Once again cataclysmic destruction associated with the cosmic signs. The OT DOTL is the same as the NT second return of Christ as we can see from Joel 2-3. There is a massive earthquake associated with the return of Jesus. Mountains and islands found no more in Rev 16.

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
Isa 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
Isa 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
Isa 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

It just seems that there is always massive destruction around the cosmic signs shown here in Isa 24:23. I would say there is a lot of scripture support for physical objects falling from the sky with all the other cataclysmic events taking place in that same timeframe.

Peace,
Seeker

[Douggg]

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"
- Yeshua - Matthew 24:29

[color=#404000]In certain biblical references
angels are described as "stars"
could the visual of falling "stars" in Matthew 24
be the angels sent downward towards Earth from heaven?
Sent down to the earth, by the Lord, in order to gather the elect.

If we look closer into the original language of the written word we can see
that the greek word for fall could be used for our english word "fall" or "to descend."
In a descent here there seems to be more of an intended purpose than just a falling.
A descending star in this context of scripture seems to indicate a purpose
as described in the following verses of Matthew 24
when the angels are sent to gather the elect.

imo, the stars appear to be falling because the disappear at the horizon. Matthew 24 parallels Revelation 6, the sixth seal, point for point. The cosmos that we now observe at night will roll up like a scroll and disappear, and the world will see Jesus before the throne of God in the third heaven. Seeing Jesus will be the sign of the Son of Man "in heaven" that causes Satan, the Antichrist, and False prophet to convince the world's leaders to assemble their armies at Armageddon to fight Jesus when He descends from heaven to earth.

In Revelation 12, the war in heaven and Satan and his angels being kicked down to earth just past the exact mid-point of the seven is - is a war that takes place in the SECOND heaven, i.e. the cosmos. The reason being that the SECOND heaven is going to be rolled back, removed, near the end of the 7 years. The UFO's are Satan's angels.

Doug L.

[Tevye]

That is an interesting perspective Doug.
I imagine that when the sky receeds like a scroll
that the light from the glory of God upon Yeshua
will be greater than the light of the stars in the universe.
And as it is when the sun shines in the daytime
being greater than the darkness of night,
the stars in space would not be visible.
Now this is a perspective and not set in stone
but I imagine that if the glory of the Son of God
blocks the light of the stars, then we could
imagine that the falling stars in Matthew and Revelation
could be something other than the giant balls of fire and gas in space.
Imagine the brilliant light of God's glory, brighter than the sun
and then the streeming light of angels descending towards the earth
as they have bent sent by Yeshua to go down from high up in the clouds.
The visual imagination falls short of what it will be like on that day.
But we can imagine and be encouraged that there will be a day.
when Jesus sends His angels to gather up His elect.
What a wonderful day that will be.

[bchandler]

IF something big smacked into the earth and sent it reeling as is supposed above... the resulting dust cloud spreading around the globe would cause the sky to appear to recede or roll up like a scroll, as well as blocking out much of the light from sun, moon, and stars.

Here is a thought.... What if Jesus statement about seeing Satan fall from heaven as lightning was prophetic?

What if the war in heaven with the Archangel Michael marshalling the armies of God is when Satan and his angels have their access to the 3rd heaven cut off completely?

Would Satan and all of his angels then become visible to us, due to their inability to enter that extra-dimensional realm of the 3rd heaven?

[Yogi]

I have laid these things out in detail here:
http://thereturnofthechrist.com/

It includes a picture of the heavens departing like a scroll etc.

[The Orange Mailman]

Hey Seeker-

Satan was certainly defeated at the cross. During the entire ministry of Jesus, Satan was bound by someone stronger than he is, Mark 3:22-27. But to look at Revelation 12 and see these defeats of Satan to occur during the ministry of Jesus is to read something into these passages. The initial fall of Satan from heaven had to be before Christ was born because the dragon is there waiting for Him to be born, Revelation 12:4. Also, when Michael kicks Satan out of heaven he is given time, times, and half a time, or 1260 days from that point, Revelation 12:6, 14. We know that this must refer to the last half of Daniel's 70th week.

Satan's defeat is certain and it happens in stages. We must examine each passage independently and then cross-reference if the connection is clear enough. For instance, it would be an error to assume that because Satan was being cast out in John 12:31 that he was then bound in the bottomless pit at that time.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman

[Seeker]

Hi Orange,

Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Satan was bound by someone stronger than he is, Mark 3:22-27. But to look at Revelation 12 and see these defeats of Satan to occur during the ministry of Jesus is to read something into these passages.

Who is it that Jesus is implying bound Satan? They are accusing Jesus of being a demon because He was casting demons out. Jesus explains that would be self defeating and then offers the explanation that Satan has been bound. Jesus was the one spoiling the house of Satan so He was the one that bound Satan. No one can enter ...unless he..The one entering the house is the one first binding the strong man.

The initial fall of Satan from heaven had to be before Christ was born because the dragon is there waiting for Him to be born,

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The stars that were drawn with Satan (Rev 12:4) would be his angels that were cast out with him (Rev 12:9). If Satan has to be there before the birth of Christ his angels/third of the stars are there with him. The whole lot being cast to earth before the birth of Christ. That I would agree with after considering your point. That makes more sense than at the cross actually. It would explain why Satan put so much effort in trying to kill Jesus at birth with Herod killing all the male children under two years of age.

Also, when Michael kicks Satan out of heaven he is given time, times, and half a time, or 1260 days from that point, Revelation 12:6, 14.

Well not exactly...

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Satan was said to have a short time after he was cast out not 3 1/2 years. The woman flees from him for 3 1/2 years.

Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

When Satan can't get to the woman, who is protected from him for 3 1/2 years, he then goes to make war with the offspring of the woman who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Christ. So I don't see that scripture says that Satans short time is the 3 1/2 years. Jesus also preached that the kingdom of heaven was at hand while He walked the earth. As we know the kingdom did begin some 2000 years ago and continues to manifest itself to this day yet Jesus preached the kingdom was imminent then. A short time to Jesus could very well be thousands of years to us. To an eternal being such as Satan a few thousand years would be a short time.

Satan's defeat is certain and it happens in stages.

Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

At what stages would you classify those scriptures above?

Peace,
Seeker

[The Orange Mailman]

Hey Seeker-

Thanks for considering my views. I admit that I "jump" from the brief time to the 3 1/2 years. It isn't explicitly stated but I believe the connection is solid enough to posit that Satan is cast down by Michael at the midpoint. To correlate, I believe that Daniel 12:1 is speaking of Michael standing up at the midpoint of the week. This is during the time of trouble (Jacob's trouble) out of which they will be delivered (Jeremiah 30:5-9. And the restrainer being taken out of the way in II Thessalonians 2 I believe to be Michael "standing up" or stepping aside in order to let Satan have his way for the final 3 1/2 years of this age. So there is a little more to my position than just making the connection between the brief time and the 3 1/2 years.

Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

At what stages would you classify those scriptures above?

In Luke 10:18 I have a unique view, unless of course you want to join me. I believe that the disciples were rejoicing of Satan’s defeat at the name of Jesus. That was immediate. In Jesus’ response, he states that He beheld (past tense) Satan fall from heaven like lightning. I believe this was the fall of Satan as seen in Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:12-16. I realize that these passages are primarily directed at earthly rulers, but they were under the direct influence of Satan allowing these prophets to “see” or “envision” Satan’s fall that occurred most likely on the seventh day of creation during the first Sabbath. So when Jesus says “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven”, He is putting things in perspective for the disciples. They were amazed that these demonic powers were impotent before them. Jesus states that Satan himself (the prince of the fallen angels) already had his fall like lightning from heaven a long time ago. He had been there and witnessed it. It assures them (and us) that his doom is certain, past doom like lightning, present doom powerless before the name of Jesus, and future doom in the lake of fire.

Mark 3:27 portrays Jesus the Messiah stepping into our time from heaven, into our demon infested culture, and doing the dirty work that we are simply unable to do. He binds Satan, first in the desert after fasting for 40 days. Then in His ministry as He performs miracle after miracle, Satan cannot do anything to stop it. Obviously, this means that Jesus is more powerful than Satan. He is the strong man who has tied Satan up making him still powerful to those who are in sin, but powerless to those who have repented and begun to follow Jesus.

John 12:31 and 16:11 are both in the context of the cross. But that judgment would not end there. The cross is about our victory over sin, therefore Satan no longer has any hold upon us since he can only work through sinful people. Satan will still retain his power in anyone who does not embrace the cross, even though Christ died for the sins of the world. So Satan is not yet completely defeated. So while there was a casting out of Satan due to the cross, he has not been completely cast out. I believe Jesus spoke regarding the nature of what would occur in the unseen realms at the cross, but also portends an ultimate judgment which will result in Satan being completely cast out of this world altogether.

Agreements? Disagreements?

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman

[rizen]

Hey Orange,

I'm curious as to your take on the fallen star in Rev. 9:1. I had assumed for a long while that it was Satan. But in Rev. 12:8 we are told that no place is found in heaven for Satan and the fallen angels. Since we know that the sounding of the fifth trumpet occurs after the midpoint, and we are told at the midpoint (in Rev. 12:8) that no place was found in heaven for Satan, this "fallen star" couldn't be Satan. Or could it?

We are told that Jesus possesses the keys of hell and death in Rev. 1:18. When the text in Revelation 9:1 states the fallen star "was given" the key of the bottomless pit, does this mean he is given it after the fifth trumpet sounds, or does this mean he could have been given it at any point in time prior to the fifth trumpet?

Thanks.

[The Orange Mailman]

You know, Rizen, I can't say for sure on this. One thing I believe is that this star is an angelic being, a fallen angelic being therefore not one of the holy angels. But can we completely disqualify Satan as a candidate? I'm not sure.

I don't think it would be out of line for Satan to be named "destroyer" or "destruction". Satan is more fully introduced in chapter 12, but until that time, why couldn't he be spoken of under different terms?

As far as timing, I would follow your outline that the fifth trumpet is after the midpoint (and after the great tribulation during the Day of the LORD close to the end of the 70th week), and that Satan is cast down at the midpoint in Revelation 12:7-9. But, I noticed that the ESV translates Revelation 9:1 in this way.

And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit.

Perhaps we could get someone to help with the verb tense of "fallen" there to give us a better idea of what is being conveyed to us. The king over the bottomless pit (named at the end of the passage) is most likely this angel-star here at the beginning of the passage.

I hope that clears up how much I don't know.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman

[rizen]

Hi Orange,

Yeah, it seems pretty obvious this is an allusion to Satan, and is a fulfillment of the prophecy concerning the scarlet-colored beast in Rev. 17:8 that is said to ascend from the bottomless pit. Maybe what John is describing here in 9:1 when he sees the star fall is a reflection of something that exclusive happens between the earth and bottomless pit. In this way, the angel-star would serve a dual purpose. The symbolism of the angel-star's "pipto" from heaven to earth would obviously answer the "who" question concerning Abaddon, Apollyon, or king of the bottomless pit, while the fifth trumpet would answer the "when" question concerning scarlet-colored beasts ascension from the bottomless pit.

I suppose the only other candidate for this angel-star would be the angel that descends from heaven to bind Satan and cast him into the bottomless pit in Rev. 20:1.

Perhaps we could get someone to help with the verb tense of "fallen" there to give us a better idea of what is being conveyed to us.

Yeah, where's "watching" at?

I know the spelling of the verb for "fall" in this instance is spelled pi-epsilon-pi-tau-omega-kappa-omicron-tau-alpha (peptokota?) if that's any help.

I hope that clears up how much I don't know.

LOL. Grab a hat and get in line with the rest of us.