What is... and what does start the 70th week?

[Mr Baldy]

Hello all,

I am posing a question to this forum - 'WHAT IS... AND WHAT DOES START THE 70TH WEEK?

There are many opinions about this particular topic, and I am very eager to hear any suggestions. I know as a body of believers, that the truth will surface concerning this event; because there is a truth, and I believe wholeheartedly that God will reveal it to us.

What I am asking is for those who have studied the final 7 years; and the events that relate to it, to please provide the reason why they believe that the 70 week will begin at a certain point, and please support this with Scripture.

I will begin by saying that I believe that Daniel 9:24-27 may just have multiple meanings - as we know multiple events are listed, encompassing two very important segments; with it's relationship to time - and maybe even include part of the Millennial Kingdom. Let me post the passage of Scripture, and then I will explain my point.

Daniel 9:24-27 reads.......

The Seventy Weeks:

24) "Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. 25) Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26) And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. 27) And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator." - ESV

My explanation...... as I have mentioned these particular verses of Scripture could have multiple meanings; multiple segments - but within a set time frame; to include going into the Millennial Kingdom, and possibly even to it's completion.

Some have boxed the final 7 years for all the requirements in Daniel 9:24 to have been completed by the 2,520th day - or if viewing the second half exclusively day 1,260 - (1,260 + 1,260 = 2,520). I believe that this is very much in error, as we have Daniel 12:11-12 mentioning day 1,290, and day 1,335 respectively. There is no way this could happen as we would have an extra 75 days.

If this entire passage of Scripture has multiple meanings encompassing two key events, with time segments; then I would suggest that the point at which the 70th week starts is NOT when the Antichrist confirms the Covenant with Many. They indeed are two different EVENTS with two different starting points which may very well overlap at some point.

We know that sin, rebellion, death, and even mortal life will continue well into the Millennial Kingdom. Zechariah 14:16-21 is quite clear on that - therefore Daniel 9:24 CANNOT be fulfilled at that point; at least not completely. If the Millennial Reign of Christ is considered to be one day - then the completion of this DAY will finally - and LASTLY fulfill the70th week.

These are just my thoughts, just to get the ball rolling......

[watching]

I am posing a question to this forum - 'WHAT IS... AND WHAT DOES START THE 70TH WEEK?

Hi Mr. Baldy,

The answer is in the text.

Daniel 9:24-27 reads.......

The Seventy Weeks:

24) "Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. 25) Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26) And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. 27) And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator." - ESV

[Mr Baldy]

The answer is in the text.

Hi watching......and thank you for responding.

No, the answer is not given in the text.......I have to very respectfully disagree with you here.

This is exactly the point that I am trying to make - in order to solicit deep thinking. The meaning of these particular verses, I believe have a very complex meaning; and as I have stated, could also have multiple, or complex meanings - which we know is set for a certain time segment; but may include the Millennial Kingdom.

What I am saying is this....... The Millennial Kingdom Of Christ could also include the final week; or be apart of the last 7 years. This thinking, appears to be something that most have not even considered - and I believe that Scripture cannot rule it out........(If so, please prove it!) Also..... the Millennial Kingdom is a point in time which most tend to rule out as far as sin, and rebellion is concerned, although we know by Scripture it will continue. Mortal life reigning with immortal life during this time segment, will occur, and even death will happen. So how can all the requirements of Daniel 9:24 be completed - prior to the Return of Chirst? At this juncture, this sort of thought process, and/or thinking - for those who belive that the requirements will have been met prior to the Return of Chirst, certainly appears to be contrary to Scripture.

Since these verses of Scripture mention the entire 70 weeks, to include the final week; please show me where the start of the 70th week begins....that would be Great Evidence, if one can do so!

Daniel 9:27 - if you are referring to that; is not exclusive evidence, as a beginning point - at which point (date and perhaps even the time) that the Antichrist confirms the Covenant with Many. Many have made this assumption - to include myself, and this is where the error in our thinking may begin.

[Wickus]

Mr B, thanks for letting the old grey matter and prayer knees get back into action. You have valid points in this discussion that also bothered me.

One question that I can not answer is this: If the first 69 weeks can be back tracked in history to have a beginning and end, why should the last week also not have a beginning and an end. It does seem that the 70 weeks equals 490 years with 7 years missing. Are you implying that the 70th week may be longer than 7 years, maybe even 1000 years? It is only after 1000 years that sin and transgression shall end.

There is really many unanswered questions in this Scripture and by the looks of it it can not be all fulfilled in a 7 year time span.

[Mrs. B]

What is......and what does start the 70th week?


What is?.....the 70th week is the Last week or the last seventy years before Jesus comes back and sets up
The Kingdom of God....
Seven years.......
Jesus said.....Matt 24:15....When you therefore shall see the Abomination of Desolation....SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL the prophet, Stand in the Holy Place.....(whoso readest, let him understand:)

Stand in the Holy Place?.........What Know ye not that your.....our Body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit...?
Our Bodies....the Church is the Temple of the Holy Spirit.......
when you see therefore the Abomination of Desolation,spoken of by Daniel the prophet.......
Stand in the Holy Place......Whoso Readeth Let Him Understand:
This is the Falling Away.....that Paul Writes about in II Thess. 2
when the a/c spirit takes over the church.......stand in the Holy Place

2 Thess. 2:7...For the Mystery of Iniquity doth already Work:
only he who now letteth will let, Until he be taken out of the way...

8...And then shall that Wicked be Revealed.....Whom the Lord shall Consume with the Spirit of His Mouth, \and shall destroy with the
Brightness of His Coming....

9...Even Him, Whose coming is after the working of Stan with ALL Power and signs and Lying Wonders...

Now...Jesus said....When you see the Abomination of Desolation spoken by Daniel the Prophet...stand in the Holy Place...
let him understand........It is the Fathers will that we understand..

Daniel 8:13.....Then I heard One Saint.....notice one saint speaking and another Saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How Long Shall be the Vision....CONCERNING THE DAILY SACRIFICE....AND the TRANSGRESSION OF DESOLATION,
to give both the Sanctuary (the church) and the host to be trodden underfoot?

Then Shall the Sanctuary...(the sanctuary is the Church, the body of Christ, the Holy Place, where the Holy Spirit
dwells....in us the Believers....the True Believers.....

Jesus said.....When you see the Abomination of Desolation spoken by Daniel the Prophet....stand in the Holy PLace
the body of Christ...let him understand......
to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under?

14.....And he said unto me.....Unto two thousand and three hundred days;
then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed....

Then shall the Church be cleansed or sanctuary be cleansed or Justified....

Matt. 24:21....For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the World to This Time,
NO, Nor ever shall be...

22....And Except these days should be shortened,
There should not Flesh Be Saved:
But for the Elect's sake those days shall be shortened.....


2300 days....then shall the Sactuary.....the church....be cleansed.....

2300 days is alittle short of 7 years....
This is the Last 7 years before Jesus comes...

29.....Immediately.....after the Tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the Powers of the Heavens shall be shaken:
30....And then shall Appear the Sign of the Son of Man in Heaven:
and then shall ALL THE TRIBES OF THE EARTH MOURN,
And they shall see the son of Man Coming in the clouds of Heaven with Power and Great Glory.......


Go into all the World and Preach this Gospel.....and then shall all the Tribes of the Earth Mourn..
We are to Preach this Gospel to all Nations..........The Body of Christ is in all the World, in every Nation...


Daniel 9:27.....And He shall Confirm the Covenant......the Blood Covenant.....With out the Shedding of Blood there is no remission for sin......The Life is In the Blood.....And He shall confirm the Covenant.....We have a Blood Covenant with Jesus....the Christ...the Anointed One.....with out the blood covenant there is No Remission for Sin....so Jesus Confirms the Blood Covenant with Many FOR ONE WEEK.....

AND IN THE MIDST OF THE WEEK......1260 DAYS....42 MONTHS.....TIME TIMES AND A HALF..
He shall cause the Sacrifice and the Oblation to Cease....

The Blood Sacrifice and Oblation.....Oblation is Intercession.....Jesus is Seated at the Right of God making Intercession for us the Church...the True Believers....But in the Midst of the Week....He shall cause the Sacrifice...the Blood Sacrifice
to Cease......
WHAT????

Remmber the ten Virgions..
Five were Wise
and Five were Foolish...
Five wise enter in....But the Foolish are Shut Out.....The Door is Shut
they could not enter in.......
All were Virgins.......but the Foolish are locked out.....the door is Shuut
The Sacrifice and the Oblation to Cease.......
The Blood Sacrifice and Intercession Cease..........No Blood sacrifice nor Oblation....
to Cease in the Midst of the Week...


The Door is Shut

WHY?
and for the OVERSPREADING OF ABOMINATIONS.......He (Jesus) shall make it desolate...
Even Until the
Consummation, and that determined shall be Poured upon the Desolate....

This is when the seven Viols of the Wrath of God is Poured out.....at the end
Desolations are Determined.....

This is the Last 7 years....Before Jesus comes.....and sets up His Kindom on the Earth...
and we will Rule and Reign with Him for a Thousand Years...
The Curse will be removed and the Devil will be Bound.....
and The Whole Earth will be Filled with the Knowledge of the Glory of the Lord...as the Water Covers the Sea...

Mrs. B

[Mr Baldy]

Are you implying that the 70th week may be longer than 7 years, maybe even 1000 years? It is only after 1000 years that sin and transgression shall end.

Hi Wickus,

Thanks for your question......

Of course I can't take credit for even brainstorming the idea that the Antichrist confirming the Covenant with Many is not inclusive evidence in starting the 70th week - as it relates the the entire segment of Daniel 9:24-27, and the requirements therein. No, that credit belongs to Scott of "Born to Watch". I personally believe that this incredible "thought process" that he has brought to the table, just may be the key into figuring out what Daniel 12 actually means; as it relates to the final 7 years, and the 1,290 and 1,335 days respectively. Hence the topic of this thread in actually discovering what the 70th week actually is; and when or what starts it?

The idea that when the coming Antichrist confirms the Covenant with Many is the beginning of the final 7 years, is first of all, an assumption; and further, a thought process that has been pounded into the heads of us who are Watching... so hard; that we haven't taken the time to "think outside of the box", and carefully read what these particular passages of Scripture are actually saying. I personally believe that this same thinking, has clouded our minds to any deeper understanding. I sort of compare it to the thinking that this same confirmation process of a 7 year Covenant, or Treaty, is exclusively related to "Peace" - when Scripture does not indicate that it will be a 7 year "Peace Treaty"; again...however; many still do, and are currently looking for a final 7 year "Peace Treaty".

I hope you understand my points..... and now, the answer to the question that you have asked is......No, I do not think that the 70th week may be longer than 7 years - but more so that the thousand year reign of Christ , which may be included into the final 7 years - maybe considered just a single day as it relates to the 70th week; and when it is finished - the requirements of Daniel 9:24 will have come to it's fruition.

I hope this makes sense......

[Wickus]

Thanks Mr B. I am with you on Scott's thoughts on the subject and I know you will not take credit. Scott an I had a few discussions about it, and it had knock the prophetic hat of my head, so to speak. I guess that is why I am very thoughtful when posting here or on my site. If you look at the geopolitical events happening in the world, prophecy IS being fulfilled, but it does not line up with traditional views. I have been saying for a long time that things will not happen as we are all expecting, but many will be caught by surprise (including me).

I can not remember who said it, maybe here or by mail or on my site, but someone said something that made me sit up. He said WHY are we all looking for a start of the 70th week, when not Jesus or the apostles even mentioned once that we must watch for a seven year treaty. Jesus said that when the AoD happens, we must be aware of it. It does look like the start of the 70th week was not that important too Jesus, but the AoD and the rest of the signs were. Every watchman and prophecy teacher is looking for the signed 7 year treaty to bring peace to Israel, and they may be waiting in vain. We still have the ONLY confirmed covenant with many before us, and it may not have started the 70th week.

And yes, your answer makes sense. We are on the same page.

[Mr Baldy]

One question that I can not answer is this: If the first 69 weeks can be back tracked in history to have a beginning and end, why should the last week also not have a beginning and an end. It does seem that the 70 weeks equals 490 years with 7 years missing.

This is also a question that I wrestle with as well...why does the first 69 weeks, that can be tracked in history to have a beginning and end (Daniel 9:25), but the last week is not given

Then I question why Daniel 12:11-12 specifically mentions day 1,290 and day 1,335. On day 1,335 the person(s) that reach this day are called Blessed?

Daniel 12:11-12 reads....11) And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days. 12) Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days.

How does all this fit into the 70th week

Now there are those who believe that at the midst or day 1,260 (ending of sacrifice) and the AOD are set up at the same time; that the AOD is set up, and stands in the "holy place" for 1,290 days, but I don't believe that this particular passage of Scripture can be interpreted that way. This would explain the extra 30 days; however it still runs into the Millennial Kingdom time period - and yet the additional time period of 45 days given (bringing the total to day 1,335) cannot be accounted for, by way of explanation. Nor can the "blessing" that is given for those who reach this particular day, be explained.

Yes there are plenty of speculations concerning this event, and some evidence is provided - but it has been nothing but pure speculation as far as how it all fits. I guess it will be up to those who sincerely watch and pray; to yet remain patient. Perhaps it is...as you have suggested, that the AOD is what we need to be cognitive of.

We do have a 7 year confirming process with Many; we do have a man that confirmed this process; and also rose to power after 10 Nations were established; we do have evidence that the number 666 was associated with his seat of power and position; we also know that the only purpose of the 10 Kings is to give their power and authority to the beast for 1 hour; we have evidence that the WEU - which many of us have speculated are the 10 Nations or Kings are set to expire in 2011; we also have evidence that a deadline to divide Jerusalem is set for 2011; and finally we know that Scripture is very clear that the coming Antichrist must remain hidden until his appointed time. Now I ask, is all this just a mere coincidence?

I'm sincerely hoping that more understanding can come into this very "seemingly"complex issue.

[Douggg]

We know that sin, rebellion, death, and even mortal life will continue well into the Millennial Kingdom. Zechariah 14:16-21 is quite clear on that - therefore Daniel 9:24 CANNOT be fulfilled at that point; at least not completely. If the Millennial Reign of Christ is considered to be one day - then the completion of this DAY will finally - and LASTLY fulfill the70th week.These are just my thoughts, just to get the ball rolling......

Mr. Baldy, your whole problem (I don't know if that is the best word choice, I want to be respectful and tactful to a fellow Christian) is that you are not understanding "to put an end to sin" means within the context of Daniel 9 and the Jewish people. The Jews rejected Jesus so sin still has power over them in regards to the penalty of sin is eternal death.

By the end of the 70th week when Jesus returns, the Jews will have become Christians - which puts an end to sin's power to eternally separate them from God. It doesn't mean there will be no sin or death for Daniel's people the Jews as soon as the 70th week is up.

Doug L.

[Mr Baldy]

Mr. Baldy, your whole problem (I don't know if that is the best word choice, I want to be respectful and tactful to a fellow Christian) is that you are not understanding "to put an end to sin" means within the context of Daniel 9 and the Jewish people. The Jews rejected Jesus so sin still has power over them in regards to the penalty of sin is eternal death.

By the end of the 70th week when Jesus returns, the Jews will have become Christians - which puts an end to sin's power to eternally separate them from God. It doesn't mean there will be no sin or death for Daniel's people the Jews as soon as the 70th week is up.

Douggg, actually I believe it is you that has interpreted the context of Daniel 9 wrong as it relates to the Jewish people. While I give you an "A" for effort in your explanation - your end result is definately in error.

The purpose in Daniel 9:24 as it relates "to putting an end to sin" is simply to JUDGE IT. It has nothing to do with the Jews becoming Christians at the Return of Christ - (whole different topic by the way).

This same "putting an end to sin" will not have occurred until after the Millennial Reign of Christ.

Good try Douggg, but no cigar.

[Douggg]

Mr. Baldy, your whole problem (I don't know if that is the best word choice, I want to be respectful and tactful to a fellow Christian) is that you are not understanding "to put an end to sin" means within the context of Daniel 9 and the Jewish people. The Jews rejected Jesus so sin still has power over them in regards to the penalty of sin is eternal death.

By the end of the 70th week when Jesus returns, the Jews will have become Christians - which puts an end to sin's power to eternally separate them from God. It doesn't mean there will be no sin or death for Daniel's people the Jews as soon as the 70th week is up.

Douggg, actually I believe it is you that has interpreted the context of Daniel 9 wrong as it relates to the Jewish people. While I give you an "A" for effort in your explanation - your end result is definately in error.

The purpose in Daniel 9:24 as it relates "to putting an end to sin" is simply to JUDGE IT. It has nothing to do with the Jews becoming Christians at the Return of Christ - (whole different topic by the way).

This same "putting an end to sin" will not have occurred until after the Millennial Reign of Christ.

Good try Douggg, but no cigar.

The 70 weeks are appointed for the Jews. The Jew rejected Jesus. During the seven years they will accept him. What's you disagreement?

When you accepted Jesus as savior that didn't end the power of sin over you - in regards of keeping you from having eternal life ?

The millennium reign is not just for Jews. The 70 weeks, on the other hand, are appointed for the Jews.

Now you are going to make the 70th week - a thousand years long? ... because you insist that Daniel 9:24 means there will be no more sin at all, as being that nobody will commit a single sin? Stay within the context of what Jesus the messiah being cutoff did for us. It put an end to the power of sin to keep us from having eternal life.

Doug L.

[slick]

Hello Douggg & Mr Baldy,

First let me start by saying based on each of your own interpretations both thoughts and ideas hold a credibility to them.Here is the trouble I see with harmonizing your discussion;there are several issues that are said to come to completion at the close of the 70th week. and to deal with only one at a time (MAKE AN END TO SIN) muddies the context and creates much room for scriptural error, by giving room for comparison to unrelated texts.

Instead the issues stated at the giving of the passage must be dealt with in more of a group interpretation as one relates to another in a unique way, just as GODS unique choosing of ISRAEL to be HIS chosen and JERUSALEM to be the city of REDEMPTION for all mankind.

Just when did Israel's national sin begin? it was not at the rejection of Jesus, and therefore to suggest that the "sin" in question is only that aspect leads to a faulty view of the intended meaning. For instance, it says "TO BRING IN EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS, TO SEAL UP VISION AND PROPHECY,TO MAKE AND END TO SIN,TO FINISH THE TRANSGRESSION, ETC...

DANIEL 9:24

"Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. "

So as any good Bible student knows it is risky to not examine the entire context in order to come to a conclusion on a sound interpretation.

GOD-BLESS,

THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!
Clarence

[Mr Baldy]

Now you are going to make the 70th week - a thousand years long?

Douggg, it is clearly apparent that you don't read what others have posted before you make a reply. If you have read my previous posts, you would have clearly seen that I was making a suggestion that the thousand year reign of Christ could be viewed as a Day - as it relates to the ENTIRE requirements of Daniel 9:24-27; and the fulfillment's thereof. Please go back and read what I have posted, then you may have some sort of a valid rebuttal - as of now, you have no valid point.

So as any good Bible student knows it is risky to not examine the entire context in order to come to a conclusion on a sound interpretation.

Slick, thanks for you input; however, it appears as if you have made the same mistake that ole Dougggy has made. The ENTIRE requirements of Daniel 9:24-27 were considered; and even mentioned as this thread began. "To make an end to sin" was just one element that was considered - and that to make a point. Prehaps you may want to start at the beginning as well.

The purpose of this thread was to bring together some thoughts on how this idea could either fit into bible prophecy - or bring some Scriptural reasoning as to why it could not. It is very hard to bring together sound understanding when you have those who want to make comments on things that they do not fully understand - and that based on an apparent attempt to have the need to be right; instead of reading what has been already stated. This certainly does not edify the Church - and is really a very sad state of affairs.

[Douggg]

Now you are going to make the 70th week - a thousand years long?

Douggg, it is clearly apparent that you don't read what others have posted before you make a reply. If you have read my previous posts, you would have clearly seen that I was making a suggestion that the thousand year reign of Christ could be viewed as a Day - as it relates to the ENTIRE requirements of Daniel 9:24-27; and the fulfillment's thereof. Please go back and read what I have posted, then you may have some sort of a valid rebuttal - as of now, you have no valid point.

I don't want to belabor the point. So here is what you typed and I will go from there...

.No, I do not think that the 70th week may be longer than 7 years - but more so that the thousand year reign of Christ , which may be included into the final 7 years - maybe considered just a single day as it relates to the 70th week; and when it is finished - the requirements of Daniel 9:24 will have come to it's fruition.

If I understand you correctly you are suggesting that the seven years normally broken down in to days is 2520 days (each day being 24 hours long) - could as alternative - in your theory - be 2519 (24 hour days) + 1day that is a thousand years long. Is that your theory or not?

Doug L.

[Mr Baldy]

If I understand you correctly you are suggesting that the seven years normally broken down in to days is 2520 days (each day being 24 hours long) - could as alternative - in your theory - be 2519 (24 hour days) + 1day that is a thousand years long. Is that your theory or not?

Yes....sounds ridiculous doesn't it?

[Douggg]

If I understand you correctly you are suggesting that the seven years normally broken down in to days is 2520 days (each day being 24 hours long) - could as alternative - in your theory - be 2519 (24 hour days) + 1day that is a thousand years long. Is that your theory or not?

Yes....sounds ridiculous doesn't it?

..but I admire your pursuit of looking for answers.

We have the blessed hope in our Lord Jesus Christ. Because we have a guaranteed hope, therefore we have motivation.

Doug L.

[Mr Baldy]

We have the blessed hope in our Lord Jesus Christ. Because we have a guaranteed hope, therefore we have motivation.

and !

[Mttw633]

what starts the 70th week is God is restarting the 70th week-that's it. IMO: It starts on Rosh Hashanah: head of the year. (meaning head/start of the 70th week) It's the next feast in succession from the spring feasts. I think it's already been fulfilled. Next one: Yom Kippur which I believe will be fulfilled at Armegeddon.

[Mr Baldy]

what starts the 70th week is God is restarting the 70th week-that's it.

I think this is the best response that I've heard yet. I cannot find any "indicators" that can be supported with Scripture; that would actually start the 70th week.

Many have assumed - to include myself; that when the Antichrist "confirms" the Covenant with Many, that this initiates the final 7 years. I guess the association with it being a 7 year covenant, and the final 7 years (70th week) is what has been the "status quo" (per se) as far as identifying it's initiation point. But Scripture doesn't indicate that necessarily - these time periods could very well overlap, as others have indicated.

[Wickus]

what starts the 70th week is God is restarting the 70th week-that's it.

I think this is the best response that I've heard yet. I cannot find any "indicators" that can be supported with Scripture; that would actually start the 70th week.

Many have assumed - to include myself; that when the Antichrist "confirms" the Covenant with Many, that this initiates the final 7 years. I guess the association with it being a 7 year covenant, and the final 7 years (70th week) is what has been the "status quo" (per se) as far as identifying it's initiation point. But Scripture doesn't indicate that necessarily - these time periods could very well overlap, as others have indicated.

That makes sense to me. As time goes on it looks like we (including me) have to start afresh with the prophetic time line. Assumptions must be replace with Biblical facts, or many is going to be caught by surprise.

[Mttw633]

It is a covenant being confirmed, the Most High God is confirming or reinstating his 70 week prophecy. IMO: it started in 2005 and I have said as such since 2005 and I must say there was a definate learning curve along the way. He is good. What it means is 2012 is the year when Armegeddon happens and He will step his foot on the Mount of Olives. From Rosh Hashanah 2005-to Yom Kippur 2012 is the full seven years.

Within this period of time we have a person who was elected (was 'given' a mouth...for 42 months Rev 13:5) in Nov 2008- through April 2012 is 42 months. Said person will most likely fulfill Rev 13:3 and Rev 13:5 and Apollyon will inhabit him. Apollyon has only 5 months to torment the men of the earth: May, June, July, August, September. Yom Kippur is September 26, 2012. This fulfills scripture in that the 8th king is one of the previous 7 kings: this spirit who inhabits him is Apollyon, or more commonly called Apollo, or Nimrod aka Osiris. Pray about it and see if the Holy Spirit agrees with it.

[Mr Baldy]

It is a covenant being confirmed, the Most High God is confirming or reinstating his 70 week prophecy.

Mttw633,

Are you stating that the 70th week prophecy in itself is the "covenant" that is being confirmed? And based on the rest of what you have posted - would I be right in assuming that you believe that our current President is the one who will carryout the End Time mission represented in Scripture?

[Mttw633]

YES.

[Wickus]

Mttw633, interesting thoughts. But what happens to the 2 witnesses that will preach for 42 months or all the other 42 month timeliness that still needs fulfillment? Clearly there is not enough time left if Armageddon happens in 2012? And how did BO rise from 10 kings (horns) and subdue 3? Would you care to expand on your thoughts?

[Mttw633]

Mttw633, interesting thoughts. But what happens to the 2 witnesses that will preach for 42 months or all the other 42 month timeliness that still needs fulfillment? Clearly there is not enough time left if Armageddon happens in 2012? And how did BO rise from 10 kings (horns) and subdue 3? Would you care to expand on your thoughts?

I think Scripture states who the two witnesses are in Is 43: Jacob and Israel, meaning Jews and Christians.
Although we know Jacob's name was changed to Israel, these two names mean two seperate peoples. Just like Ephraim and Judah, house of Israel and house of Judah. God is saying that these are two seperate groups and he is saying you are my witnesses. These aren't literal men walking around in sackloth: they're doing what you and I are doing trying to tell people to repent, the day of the Lord is coming!

From what I've seen so far as to the 10 kings arising: we had maybe a year ago a new group of ten called The Council of Govenors of which my Gov is co-chair. (yea! not really) http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-off ... -governors

Rev 17:12 says the 10 kings have yet to receive a kingdom but for one hour will receive authority as kings along w/ the beast. I see this group of ten getting powers by executive order sometime in the future. The framework is there, but no authority or kingdom as yet.


I think when Apollyon comes to inhabit him he will then pluck 3. Here's the Septuagint version, it's clearer:
23 And he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom on the earth, which shall excel all other kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and trample and destroy it. 24 And his ten horns are ten kings that shall arise: and after them shall arise another, who shall exceed all the former ones in wickedness and he shall subdue three kings. 25 And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change times and law: and power shall be given into his hand for a time and times and half a time. 26 And the judgment has sat, and they shall remove his dominion to abolish it, and to destroy it utterly. 27 And the kingdom and the power and the greatness of the kings that are under the whole heaven were given to the saints of the Most High; and his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all powers shall serve and obey him.

There's one who speaks proud words and blashphemies for 42 months, and one who is the beast who wreaks havoc for 5 months.

[redeemed1953]

I must tread lightly when approaching y'all! I admit that I don't know everything there is to know.

There are some thoughtful people, not all, who believe that Jesus fulfilled the first 3 1/2 weeks of Daniel when He was in public ministry.

Since The Revelation (and the whole of scripture, in general) is ALL ABOUT JESUS , not the enemy of your soul, this makes some sense to me.

What do y'all think?

[watching]

:armor:
I must tread lightly when approaching y'all! I admit that I don't know everything there is to know.

There are some thoughtful people, not all, who believe that Jesus fulfilled the first 3 1/2 weeks of Daniel when He was in public ministry.

Since The Revelation (and the whole of scripture, in general) is ALL ABOUT JESUS , not the enemy of your soul, this makes some sense to me.

What do y'all think?

I think, (except I would have said the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week).

[Mttw633]

The one week should not have a 2000 year gap in between it, it's consecutive in it's week construct. The whole precept of 70 weeks would be thrown out the window. Then God would've called it something different.

[watching]

The one week should not have a 2000 year gap in between it, it's consecutive in it's week construct. The whole precept of 70 weeks would be thrown out the window. Then God would've called it something different.

Hi Mttw633,

I'm not sure I follow you. According to your precept:

It is a covenant being confirmed, the Most High God is confirming or reinstating his 70 week prophecy. IMO: it started in 2005 and I have said as such since 2005 and I must say there was a definate learning curve along the way. He is good. What it means is 2012 is the year when Armegeddon happens and He will step his foot on the Mount of Olives. From Rosh Hashanah 2005-to Yom Kippur 2012 is the full seven years.

Within this period of time we have a person who was elected (was 'given' a mouth...for 42 months Rev 13:5) in Nov 2008- through April 2012 is 42 months. Said person will most likely fulfill Rev 13:3 and Rev 13:5 and Apollyon will inhabit him. Apollyon has only 5 months to torment the men of the earth: May, June, July, August, September. Yom Kippur is September 26, 2012. This fulfills scripture in that the 8th king is one of the previous 7 kings: this spirit who inhabits him is Apollyon, or more commonly called Apollo, or Nimrod aka Osiris. Pray about it and see if the Holy Spirit agrees with it.

So are you suggesting that the entire 70 weeks prophecy began in 2005 and will be accomplished in 2012.............



........... even though that would just be one week not 70................




............and the abomination of desolation was the election of an Obama-nation?

[Mttw633]

I think there is a lapse between the 69th and 70th week- but you can't have a lapse 'in between' a week. Then it wouldn't be a 70 week covenant, it would be a 25205 day prophecy.

I am suggesting the 70th week began in 2005. And if it was so the abomination was the speech, A New Foundation for America. (that was day 1290 from the start date) By just the very title of the speech merits abomination, but they one-upped it: that was the speech in which they blackened out the IHS symbol representing JESUS. Wouldn't want to have the potentate stand in front of that symbol, would we?

[watching]

I think there is a lapse between the 69th and 70th week- but you can't have a lapse 'in between' a week. Then it wouldn't be a 70 week covenant, it would be a 25205 day prophecy.

Does the scripture not mention certain things happening in the middle of one seven?

Does the scripture not mention a very important event occurring after 69 sevens (62 + 7), which without this particular event the prophecy of the 70 weeks would not even be possible?

According to the way the scripture reads, the continuity is from the beginning of the seventy weeks until that certain event which occurs after 69 weeks.

Here, see for yourself:

Daniel 9:24-27
New American Standard Bible


Seventy Weeks and the Messiah

24“Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25“So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26“Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. 27“And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

color coding added for emphasis

[Mttw633]

day 1290 is longer than 1/2 of the 70th week, so the 70th week split in two is moot. Verse 26 is speaking about the events in ad 70, which Jesus referenced in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. And the last portion of Daniel 9 speaks of the desolations that are to occur in the latter 1/2 of the week which is soon to be upon us.

[watching]

Well, in that case, 7 years is moot, because 1,290 days is shorter than seven years.

So, what's your point?

Verse 26 is speaking about the events in ad 70, which Jesus referenced in Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

You mean the second part of verse 26?

And the last portion of Daniel 9 speaks of the desolations that are to occur in the latter 1/2 of the week which is soon to be upon us.

Now, that I can agree with.

[Mttw633]

My point is that you can't split up the last 7 years because it mentions the aod occuring on day 1290, so the week is a whole. The people of the prince will come and destroy the city and the sanctuary- that happened 14000 days after Jesus wept over Jerusalem and prophesied that one stone will not be left upon another because they did not see the hour of their visitation. It occurs outside the 70 weeks prophecy. This 14k day 'judgement' points to the present day as well imo. (*that is key in this present day 70th week starting on Oct 4, 2005-that too was 14000 days from the 6 day war (June 7, 1967 to RH 2005) They didn't take the Temple Mount.

And yes, I mean the latter half of verse 26.

[watching]

Hi Mttw633,

My point is that you can't split up the last 7 years because it mentions the aod occuring on day 1290, so the week is a whole.

I still don't get your point.

Here is how the verse reads:

Daniel 12:11 (King James Version)

11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

There are a number of ways this can be interpreted.

One is that there will be 1,290 days between the continual being taken away and the abomination of desolation.

Another is that there will be 1,290 days from the time the continual is taken away to the abomination of desolation, and including the duration of the abomination of desolation, added together.

Yet another, is that the taking away of the continual and the abomination of desolation will occur at precisely the same moment/time and that there will be 1,290 days from both until something. However, if that is the case, the until something is not mentioned in the above verse.

Of course, there may yet be another way to interpret this verse that I have not thought of.

In any case, what's your point?

The people of the prince will come and destroy the city and the sanctuary- that happened 14000 days after Jesus wept over Jerusalem and prophesied that one stone will not be left upon another because they did not see the hour of their visitation. It occurs outside the 70 weeks prophecy

The destruction of the city and the temple does not have to be included within the 70 weeks since it is not necessary for the fulfillment of the following:

Daniel 9:24 (King James Version)

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

However, the cutting off of the Messiah is.

[Christ_Our_Hope]

In the most simplistic terms:

1. The start of the 70th week is the confirming of the covenant. This is made with Israel and the Antichrist.

2. The 70th week cannot be in the Day of the Lord or Millennial Kingdom as the Day of the Lord is initiated by the events in Joel 2:31, Matt 24:29-31, Rev 6:12-13 while the 70th week ends right as the Day of the Lord is initiated. Thus the two do not overlap.

Another point: Christians were in persecution along with the Jews during the 1st Century. The concept that the 70th Week being without Christians is without foundation as there is no proof that they are taken before the events of Matt 24:29-31.

Second point: there was no second form of salvation for the Jews during our Lord's ministry on earth. Was there an offer of a KINGDOM? Yes. But not a different way to enter into eternal life.

Jesus preached the words of the book of John on EARTH to the JEWS. They had to receive him as their PERSONAL saviour. No works needed THEN. John 3:16 is pointed out by Dispensationalists as being CHURCH AGE - Born again believer doctrine and NOT for the Jews of the time before the Cross. But hey, this message was preached to Nicodemus a ruler of the JEWS.

So I see two messages: one is a NATIONAL message and the other is a PERSONAL message.

[watching]

This is made with Israel and the Antichrist.

Scripture please.


I'm interested in what the scripture says, not what man (the modern evangelical community) says it says.

[Mrs. B]

What is.....and what does start the 70th week?


Jesus said.....When you see the Abomination that Maketh Desolate stand in the Holy Place.....

What I see......
The Holy Place is the Body of Christ...But....The Church is fallen...and the a/c spirit
is taking over the church.....deceiving if possible the very elect.....Teaching church doctrine....
Man ruling the churches instead of Jesus by the Holy Spirit.....Jesus is the Head of the Church.....not some headquaraters...Jesus is seated at the Right Hand of the Father and He, Jesus makes intercession for the Born Again
Believers....We pray in His Name and the Angels carry out our prayers....Angels are ministering Spirits sent forth to minister for the saints of the most High...The Church....

This Generation shall not pass away until.......all be fulfilled....
What Generation? the last Generation that sees these things coming to pass....
I believe we are the last G eneration....
1948....Israel became a Nation again.....after 2000 years
1967....The Six day War.....the Temple area again was restored...these are signs
This Generation shall not pass away until........
When you the Abomination that Maketh Desolate Stand in the Holy Place.....
This is where we need Spiritual Understanding.....

Paul wrote......
I Corin 3:16....Know ye not that ye are the Temple of God, and that the Spirit of God Dwelleth in You?
17....If ANY MAN DEFILE THE TEMPLE of God, Him shall God Destroy;
For the Temple of God is HOLY, WHICH TEMPLE YE ARE...

If we follow another Christ....like man made church doctrine....this is antichrist
God is Sent His Holy Spirit to Live in Us the Believer and we are to be Lead by the Holy Spirit..
The Word of God and the Holy Spirit are ONE.....The ministery of the Holy Spirit is to lead us and guide us INTO ALL TRUTH........THEY AGREE...THEY ARE ONE.....We are One Body...by the Holy Spirit...

Eph. 2:17....And (Jesus) came and preached peace to you which were afar off (the Gentiles) and to them that were nigh (the Jews)
18.....For through Him (Jesus) We Both...Jew and Gentile have Access by ONE SPIRIT UNTO THE FATHER
20....AND are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the CHIEF CORNER STONE....
21...In whom all the Building fitly Framed together Groweth UNTO AN HOLY TEMPLE IN THE LORD...

22....IN WHOM YE ALSO ARE BUILDED TOGETHER....FOR AN HABITATION OF GOD THROUGH THE SPIRIT....
Paul wrote this to the Gentiles in Ephesis.....Showing that God has Made both One....by the Spirit
There is only One Body.......and One Spirit.....and One Lord

To Understand Prophsey we must understand this.......

The deception is that God is Doing a Short Work with Israel.....
and this teaching of the 70th week because we think there will be a covenant with the man of sin....misleads us and we cannot see.

The Confirming of the Covenant is Jesus doing a short Work with Israel.....by the word and the Holy Spirit.....and during this time many Jews are Saved.....today
Which I believe we have and are seeing this happening now......More Jews are Christians now then ever.....
this is all signs of the end times.....
Paul wrote...that God would do a short Work with Israel when the Sin of the Gentiles are Full...In this last Generation.
and we have and are seeing this.... In our Generation

1948....Israel became a Nation....this generation....

The Abomination that makes Desolate....I believe is two things
The Church falling away.....and the antichrist appears in person....a Man....satan in the flesh.
Just Like Jesus was God manifested in the Flesh so Satan will also take on flesh and deceive many...

Jesus said....I come in my name and you receive me not....But another shall come in his Own name and HIM you will receive Him......this is Israel and the church accepting the false christ........This is the Abomination of Desolation.
This is what cause World Judgment...the church falls away from THE truth and Jesus confirms the New Covenant with many...the Jews today.

This is the Short Work.....



Mrs. B

[Mr Baldy]

Jesus said....I come in my name and you receive me not....But another shall come in his Own name and HIM you will receive Him......this is Israel and the church accepting the false christ........This is the Abomination of Desolation.

Mrs B.......

With all due respect the verse of Scripture that you are referring to is none other than John 5:43. This is perhaps the most misused, and misinterpreted Scripture in the entire Bible.

This verse is NOT referring to to coming Antichrist. Most use this verse to make their particular theory of end time eschatology work - and most sadly, I must say are in the Pre-Trib camp.

The best translation of this particular translation of Scripture (IMHO) can be found in the NLT; it is as follows:

"For I have come to you in my Father’s name, and you have rejected me. Yet if others come in their own name, you gladly welcome them."

The NIV has a great translation as well; it is as follows:

"I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him."

You see, if you were to read the entire passages of Scripture that surrounds that particular verse; (John 5:36-47); you and others will see that Jesus was plainly stating that He had come in the Name of the Father - not seeking the honor and glory of men; as others had come in that manner in past times. The Jews didn't receive Him because He did not come bearing the honor from men - in that He did not provide miracles that they were seeking at that point; and food, military power etc..... He only sought to please God, and not the honor from men. That is what John 5:43 means.

[Mrs. B]

What is.....and what does start the 70th week?


There has to be a falling away.......and the Antichrist has to be Revealed...
The Church falling away from the Truth of the Gospel...
Most christians today.....notice most not all think that Church membership is salvation.
There faith is in their Church...
church name...church doctrine...church membership....what ever their church believes....
this is the deception that Jesus warned about.....the church being deceived...falling away from the Truth of the gospel...

When you see the Abomination of Desolation stand in the Holy Place.....

God is a Spirit.....There is the Holy Spirit that is the Spirit of Truth
and there are many spirits....and they are not all of God....
Deceiving Spirits...that lead us away from God.
satan also is a spirit.....any spirit that is against Jesus and the Word is not of God...
any spirit that teaches another Jesus or another Christ is not of God....

Daniel 8:9...And out of one of them came forth a little horn.......which waxed exceeding great...
toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

10....And it waxed great, even to (or against the host) the host of heaven;
and itcast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them...

11...Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him...the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down...

12....And an host (or, the host was given over for the transgression against the daily sacrifice) (Daniel 11:31..
and arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the Sanctuary of Strength...this is the church, polluted by false teaching...the sanctuary of strength....corrupting or pollute or falling away from the truth....and shall take away the
daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate...

Daniel 11:30.....For the Ships of Chittim shall come against him:
therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have Indignation against THE HOLY COVENANT:
SO shall he do;
he shall even return, and have INTELIGENCE....with them that forsake the HOLY COVENANT...

(with them that forsake.....the fallen away believers that forsake the Holy Covenant....You see we have a Blood Covenant with Jesus....We have Communion....the blood, wine and the Bread, His body..but those that fall away
or forsake the Holy Covenant he, the antichrist has intelligence with those that forsake or falll away from the Blood covenant we have with Jesus...back sliders)

32....And such as do wickedly against the Covenant (the Blood Covenant we have with Jesus)
shall he corrupt by flatteries:
BUT.....the people that do know their God shall be Strong, and do Exploits.

33....And they that Understand among the people shall Instruct Many:
Yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

34....Now when they shall fall....they shall be holpen with a little help:
but many shall cleave to them with Flatteries...

35....And some of them of understanding shall fall....to try them...and to purge, and to make them white....even to the time of the end:
Because it is yet for a time appointed...

36....And the king shall do according to his will;
and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall....SPEAK MARVELLOUS THINGS....AGAINST
the God of gods, and shall PROSPER tILL THE indignation be accomplished:
for that that is determined shall be done.

37....Neither shall he regard the GOD OF HIS FATHERS,
nor the desire of women,
nor regard any god:
for he shall magnify himself above all....

38....BUT....in his Estate (or stead) shall he honour the GOD of FORCES:
And a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasnt things....

I think he will be a Jew.....

39.....Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory;
and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain....


Satan...
Isaiah 14:12....How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How art thou cut down to the ground....which didst weaken the Nations!

13...For thous hast said in THINE HEART,
I Will Exalt My Throne Aabove the Stars of God:
I will sit also upon the Mount of the Congregation,
In the Sides of the North:
14...I Will ascend Above the Heights of the Clouds;
I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH....

15....Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.....


Spiritual Warefare........satan against God and His People...The Church



Mrs. B

[Mrs. B]

What is.....and what does start the 70th week?


Mr. Baldy...

I believe that Jesus was refering to the antichrist.....the Jews rejected Jesus....but when the a/c comes they will receive him.....

Mrs. B

[Mttw633]

Watching: do you agree with preterism?

My point is as I have previously written:
you can't split a week in two: technically then it wouldn't be a week prophecy, it would be a day prophecy. The weeks were in full the 69 weeks prior.

Jesus said He came to fulfill the law. Feasts are a shadow of things to come said Paul. How then does Rosh Hashanah get fulfilled? It means 'head of the year.' The starting point to the last week.

What I pointed out about the 14k days you glossed over without comment, but it further validates that there is an Omnipotent Creator at work and He is still giving judgements because of disobedience. I think this validates the start of the 70th week.

To find out the wording/interpretation of Daniel 12:11 is to let Scripture interpret Scripture. Daniel 12 uses the same type of wording as Daniel 9.


25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.  26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

LXX version:And from the time of the removal of the perpetual sacrifice, when the abomination of desolation shall be set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

So we can deduce from chapter nine that there will be x number of days that have occurred. (FROM, TO, SHALL BE) In chapter 12, God is not giving us a starting time, it remains a mystery to be found at the appropriate time (Daniel 12:4), but He is saying in the same type of wording there will have been 1290 days that have passed from the starting point. Now it does not work if the first ½ of the 70th week was 2000 years ago, it has to be a whole, God is restarting the 70th week-that's the confirmation of the covenant. I hope this helps.

[watching]

Watching: do you agree with preterism?

No, I do not.

My point is as I have previously written:
you can't split a week in two: technically then it wouldn't be a week prophecy, it would be a day prophecy. The weeks were in full the 69 weeks prior.

I am not the one converting the prophecy into days.

The seventy weeks prophecy is referring to weeks, one of which has certain things happening in the middle of it.

Jesus said He came to fulfill the law. Feasts are a shadow of things to come said Paul. How then does Rosh Hashanah get fulfilled? It means 'head of the year.' The starting point to the last week.

I do not understand your question.

Rosh Hashanna means head of the year, not head of a seven year period.

What I pointed out about the 14k days you glossed over without comment, but it further validates that there is an Omnipotent Creator at work and He is still giving judgements because of disobedience. I think this validates the start of the 70th week.

Again, you seem to be the one attempting to convert the 70 weeks prophecy into a prophecy about days, not me.

To find out the wording/interpretation of Daniel 12:11 is to let Scripture interpret Scripture. Daniel 12 uses the same type of wording as Daniel 9.

Actually, Daniel 9 and Daniel 12, as well as Daniel 8 and 11, for that matter, do not use the same type of wording.

Daniel 9 and Daniel 8, 11,12 are speaking of two different things.

Daniel 9 speaks of the zebach being taken away.

Strong's H2077 - zebach

1) sacrifice

a) sacrifices of righteousness
b) sacrifices of strife
c) sacrifices to dead things
d) the covenant sacrifice
e) the passover
f) annual sacrifice
g) thank offering

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Dan&c=9&v=27&t=KJV#conc/27
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2077&t=KJV

And Daniel 8, 11, and 12 speak of a tamiyd (continual) being taken away or disrupted.

Strong's H8548 - tamiyd

1) continuity, perpetuity, to stretch

a) continually, continuously (as adverb)
b) continuity (subst)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Dan&c=8&v=1&t=KJV#conc/11
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Dan&c=11&v=1&t=KJV#conc/31
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Dan&c=12&v=1&t=KJV#conc/11

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8548&t=KJV

[Mttw633]

:armor:
I must tread lightly when approaching y'all! I admit that I don't know everything there is to know.

There are some thoughtful people, not all, who believe that Jesus fulfilled the first 3 1/2 weeks of Daniel when He was in public ministry.

Since The Revelation (and the whole of scripture, in general) is ALL ABOUT JESUS , not the enemy of your soul, this makes some sense to me.

What do y'all think?

I think, (except I would have said the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week).

This shows that you believe Jesus fulfilled the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week previously.

While Rosh Hashanah is called head of the year, it's also called Yom Teruah. There is no specific reason given for it's observance other to do no work and offer sacrifice. Trumpets signify a readiness to the believer-to sound the alarm.
1 Blow the trumpet in Zion;
sound the alarm on my holy hill.
Let all who live in the land tremble,
for the day of the LORD is coming.
It is close at hand-

The next feast in line to be fulfilled would then be Yom Kippur: Day of Atonement, the Day of the Lord. Rosh Hashanah is to signify that the Day of The Lord is close at hand.

Watching, I mentioned a 14k day time period of judgement that Charlie Garrett, by the way, was the one who discovered it from reading Scripture. It is not in the timeline of the 70 weeks so I am not converting the 70 weeks into days, I just merely pointed out a fascinating discovery in Scripture that gives credance to RH 2005 being the starting day of the 70th week.

I pointed out Daniel 9 and Daniel 12 do use the same type of wording to show time progression. I did not say one word about sacrifice so lets leave that out for another discussion.

[watching]

Hi Mttw633,

This shows that you believe Jesus fulfilled the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week previously.

While Rosh Hashanah is called head of the year, it's also called Yom Teruah. There is no specific reason given for it's observance other to do no work and offer sacrifice. Trumpets signify a readiness to the believer-to sound the alarm.
1 Blow the trumpet in Zion;
sound the alarm on my holy hill.
Let all who live in the land tremble,
for the day of the LORD is coming.
It is close at hand-

The next feast in line to be fulfilled would then be Yom Kippur: Day of Atonement, the Day of the Lord. Rosh Hashanah is to signify that the Day of The Lord is close at hand.

There was a first coming and there will be a second coming.

I still don't understand what your point is.

Watching, I mentioned a 14k day time period of judgement that Charlie Garrett, by the way, was the one who discovered it from reading Scripture. It is not in the timeline of the 70 weeks so I am not converting the 70 weeks into days, I just merely pointed out a fascinating discovery in Scripture that gives credance to RH 2005 being the starting day of the 70th week.

I have no idea who Charlie Garret is.

In any case, I don't see the significance in this.

Couldn't anyone pick any date and any number and try to make something of it?

I pointed out Daniel 9 and Daniel 12 do use the same type of wording to show time progression. I did not say one word about sacrifice so lets leave that out for another discussion.

The progression of Daniel 9 mentions a zebach (annual sacrifice, the passover, thank offering, etc), while the progression of Daniel 12 mentions a tamiyd [a continuity] (presumed by the translators to be the daily morning and evening sacrifice that was offered on a continual basis).

So if a different type of sacrifice/continual is being discussed in the progression described in each of these verses,
how can the matter of the sacrifice/continual not be discussed?

Besides, you are the one who brought this up by making a comparison of Daniel 9 to Daniel 12.

[Mr Baldy]

I believe that Jesus was refering to the antichrist.....the Jews rejected Jesus....but when the a/c comes they will receive him.....

Mrs B, again......

With all due respect, you won't find a single verse in Scripture where Jesus specifically refers to the Antichrist. Modern day Prophets - if you can even call them that, and the whole "Left Behind " series has done so much damage to the Body of Christ; in that they have spread this false gospel - (in order to make money) which is NO gospel at all; they teach that the Rapture of the Church will precede a so-called 7 year tribulation period, and this "super human" man in the name of the Antichrist will be Christ-like and solve the problems of the World; sign a "Peace" treaty with Israel; bringing in a time of peace and prosperity - when the Bible is clear that Wars will continue until the End.

All I can say is NONSENSE. Let me first say that the coming Antichrist, and the Beast System are synonymous. It is both system and man. The coming Antichrist will "cause" all to worship the Beast System - which Satan himself has set up. People will be required to accept this "Mark" because they will want to save themselves, and not lose their lives in or that they may have eternal life. They will take the "Mark" because they will want to maintain jobs, keep their homes, maintain their standard of living, and they will want to EAT. These are the reasons they will so-call "worship" him and/or the Beast System.

I've said this before, and I'll state it again....this man never "claims" to be the Messiah. He sits in the Temple of God showing himself as God; (There is a difference in one "showing" themself "as" God, and saying that they are God); he is a blasphemer, he is arrogant; proud, he speaks out against the Most High - knowing these things, how can he come in on the platform of being the Messiah?

This man will be nothing more than a mere Politician that has come in with the power of Satan - who takes advantage of the timing and situation that the World will be in - another example would be Hitler. He will be no different, just on a Global Scale.

[Mttw633]

I don't understand why you don't get it: we know that 69/70 weeks have been fulfilled nearly 2k years ago. One week, or seven years remains to be fulfilled before the return of Jesus Christ. Jesus will fulfill all the feasts at His second advent because He did the first time He was here with the Spring feasts. The fall feasts remain. Rosh Hashanah, or Yom Teruah is the next to be fulfilled before He comes again, Yom Kippur, aka Day of Atonement is the next. The time span from RH 2005 to Yom Kippur 2012 lays out exactly as 7 years which is an anomoly because it doesn't occur every time as 7 years. Do you have any reservations concerning this as a possiblilty?

[watching]

I don't understand why you don't get it: we know that 69/70 weeks have been fulfilled nearly 2k years ago. One week, or seven years remains to be fulfilled before the return of Jesus Christ. Jesus will fulfill all the feasts at His second advent because He did the first time He was here with the Spring feasts. The fall feasts remain. Rosh Hashanah, or Yom Teruah is the next to be fulfilled before He comes again, Yom Kippur, aka Day of Atonement is the next.

If there is only half a seven remaining, as per my understanding of the seventy sevens, then how would that, in any way, hinder the fulfillment of the Fall feasts?

The time span from RH 2005 to Yom Kippur 2012 lays out exactly as 7 years which is an anomoly because it doesn't occur every time as 7 years. Do you have any reservations concerning this as a possiblilty?

Just out of curiosity, what covenant was confirmed on RH 2005, and by whom, according to your belief?

[Mttw633]

You answer my question first please, or are you avoiding it?

[watching]

What is your question?