ENP(I) Timeline Notes

[Mr Baldy]

Hi All,

I wanted to post some notes, as it relates go the ENP(I) theory - used in conjunction with Scripture.

I believe that there has been assumptions made that everything has to be included within the 70 week time period, provided in Daniel 9:24 - and this is to include the Return of Christ.

By popular belief it has always been assumed and noted that this last 7 year period will be in halves - having two 1,260 day periods; having a total of 2,520 day to include the Return of Christ. Is Scripture really indicating that?

Christ mentions in Matthew 24 a troubling time period and "signs" which lead up to His Return. But more specifically He mentions the AOD, and refers to Daniel the Prophet - in Matthew 24:15. After reading the events which surround the AOD, I have realized that a final 3.5 year time period is mentioned; which most Theologians have equated to a time, times, and half of time; or 42 months. In Daniel 12:7 it states that "all these things shall be finished" within this 42 month period - if 42 months does indeed equate to a time, times, and half of time, or 1,260 days. However Daniel 12:11-13 mentions 1,290 days, and 1,335 days. Well this 75 days beyond the 1,260 time limit. How does all this add up, and what does Daniel 12:7 mean when it states "all these things shall be finished? What things.........?

Lets take a look at Daniel 9:24 which states the requirements to be "finished" in this 70 week period:

1) To finish the transgression
2) To make an end of sins
3) To make reconciliation for iniquity
4) To bring in everlasting righteousness
5) To seal up vision and prophecy
6) To anoint the Most Holy Place

The aforementioned 6 events are to be completed within the 70 week period.

Daniel 9:27 - which mentions the final week, or 7 years has three requirements:

1) A Covenant with Many will be "confirmed" for 7 years
2) In the "midst" of the 7 year confirming process; an end to sacrifice and offering is completed
3) The AOD is set up

Now according to the assumptions that have been made the following things are to have transpired by the close of the 2,520 days or final 7 years:

1) The Two Witnesses prophesy for 1,260 days - Revelation 11:3
2) Israel flees to the wilderness for 1,260 days and is protected by God - Revelation 12:14
3) The Antichrist is given "Authority to Act" for 1,260 days; or 42 months - Revelation 13:5
4) The Return of Christ - Revelation 19:11-21

***Note: there are questions and/or there is debate concerning at which point the Two Witnesses appear

There are those of us who really believe that the ENP(I) is still valid. There is a 75 day window; which by the way no one can seem to explain - with Scripture, that exceeds the time limit of the final 1,260 days. This is specifically mentioned in Daniel 12:11-12, which gives days 1,290 and 1,335 respectively.

I have attempted to list some timeline notes as they relate to Scripture and the ENP(I) theory:

* - January 1, 2007 - December 31, 2013 - "Covenant with Many" Confirmed

* - July 20, 2010 - Midst "sacrifices stopped" - Day #1 of final 1,260 days as it relates to ENP(I)

* - December 31, 2013 - Day 1,260

* - January 30, 2014 - Day 1,290 - AOD occurs (30 days later)

* - Great Tribulation commences after AOD; not to exceed 45 days (Short Tribulation)

* - Day 1,335 Christ Returns

In closing, I have provided this timeline to show that the requirements for the ENP(I) theory may be valid. I am asking for any critique, rebuttal, or anything that can add to understanding - as day 1,335 mentioned by Scripture seems to exceed the time parameters that most; I believe have made by assumption. These assumptions have included the timing of the occurrence of the AOD; the timing of the Two Witnesses; the timing of Israel fleeing to the wilderness, the timing at which point the Antichrist is given "power to continue"; and the Return of Christ. Some of these events could very well overlap within the time frame, or run concurrently.

Again, I am asking for help in understand this End Time mystery.

[slick]

Hello Mr Baldy,

as I read your assesment on the proposed timeline encompassing the 70th week and final days of mans domination of planet earth I am inclined to agree with you.

I have felt that any ridgid timelines of modern origin is at best flawed and at most invalid.scripture I.E. prophetic,consistantly are shown as best understood after the time of fulfillment. Near/ far prophecies as seen through out the OT are attested to by a "NEAR" fulfillment to substantiate the credibility of the prophet in the far reaching ramifications of the prophecy.

At the giving of the Olivet Discourse The Disciples ask Jesus "WHAT WILL BE THE SIGN OF YOUR COMING? & WHAT ILL BE THE SIGN OF THE END OF THE AGE? " it is interesting to note that, HE begins by telling his disciples to "WATCH" as it were the "HEADLINES" or current/contemporary events. then makes the statement that the "HEADLINE" events are only a sign of the approach of the end. Thae Apostles that wrote on this subject, MARK,PAUL,PETER, JOHN....all echo CHRISTS admonition to "WATCH" or be ALERT as the "HEADLINES" indicate that the time approaches.

so many "HEADLINES" today indicate the time is approaching often in our haste we errantly attempt to predetermine that which GOD says simply to watch and wait and see!

GOD-BLESS,


THE BATTLE AGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!

clarence

[Wickus]

Mr Baldy

As always, very interesting points. These extra days is a real mystery that I do not understand. Some has said that Christ returns on day 1260 of the second half of the week and the extra days will be used for judging the nations and setting up the Kingdom. This is a theory as there is no Scriptural evidence for it.

I have also thought in the same direction as you, but was scared of being accused of keeping a dead theory alive. I guess if nothing major happens on the 20th, we will just have to keep on watching to see if we see a future AoD.

I believe firmly that the return of Christ will not happen as being portrayed by the mainline Church. We will get some surprises, and this may be one of them.

[Wickus]

Agreed Clarence.

[Hisown]

As always great insight Mr Baldy.

This begs the question though, IF we are about to enter into the 42 month period do we expect this day to go by uneventful with no indication that the "man of sin" ( now indwelt by evil ) has now been given authority to make war with the saints and to overcome them ?

Are we of the understanding that there has to be a " shift" ( a word I abhor ) in order to usher in his demonic 42 month reign? Surely the Holy Spirit will be grieved in us as never before as we become the objects of intense hatred and persecution?

So many quesitons, so little time

The only reason I am holding on to the ENPI is my scriptural (little attempt of a hypothesis )that points directly to the 9th of AV as being the "possible day the man of sin is revealed"- the " appointed-time".

I pray you will join us in the chat room on that day Mr B.

[Mr Baldy]

This begs the question though, IF we are about to enter into the 42 month period do we expect this day to go by uneventful with no indication that the "man of sin" ( now indwelt by evil ) has now been given authority to make war with the saints and to overcome them ?

Hi Hisown,

This is a very good question. But then we must ask ourselves, why does Jesus tell us about the "birth pangs", and/or signs prior to His Return - which are not uniquely date sensitive; but He specifically refers to the AOD mentioned by Daniel, which is? When reading the events in Daniel that refer to the coming AOD it mentions a specific number of days - that being 1,290, and it will have come to fruition. So this is definitely outside of the 1,260 days, or even the 2,520 days as some have speculated on, for all events to have come to pass.

I'm certainly not sure how the events will unfold, or even if the cessation of the sacrifices will ever be revealed to it's true meaning. Jesus implies that we should look for the AOD. I do know this however, that there is a confirmed Covenant with Many, which lasts for a period of 7 years. It was confirmed on Javier Solana's Watch - who appeared after 10 Nations were established; and the Position of his power was identified by this same 10 Nation Confederacy by the number 666. I do know that the Antichrist cannot be revealed until his proper time. I do know that a falling away, and the revealing of the Antichrist has to occur prior to the Return of Christ. I do know that Scripture speaks of a 75 day period, that no one can explain, (with Scripture), that appears to occur after the 2,520 days have expired. And I do know that Jesus Himself warns us about being ready; and further gives the parable of the 10 Virgins. When He first came they missed the signs - and dismissed the time of HIS visitation; because of what they had "thought"; or had been taught, would be the way He would come. These were preconceived thoughts, not supported by Scripture, which is currently going on as we discuss what is before us. And finally Jesus asks the question will He find Faith on the Earth when he Returns?

So at this point, we may have prophecy being fulfilled right before our very eyes - yet many dismiss it, because it doesn't fall within the guidelines of what traditional men have taught.

And based on the aforementioned, and for the record...... I will continue to believe that the ENP(I) is the prophesied confirming Covenant with Many until it expires. Who knows why dynamics may play out to further indicate that we have indeed entered the final days before the Return of Christ?

Call me a crazy man if you will, and I will accept your criticism. There is just way too much evidence for me to dismiss this theory entirely.

[Wickus]

As long as you don't quit your job, sell everything and go and sit on a mountain waiting for Christ to return, call me crazy with you. There is just too much adding up.

I find it hard to believe that the Lord will allow all of this signs to be played out just to leave us in the dark.

There is more to this than meets the eye. Let's keep watch together.

[Wickus]

Mr Baldy, just one question. If the AoD occurs only in 2014, how does it fit in with the Jews fleeing and being kept save by God for 1260 days?

[Mr Baldy]

Mr Baldy, just one question. If the AoD occurs only in 2014, how does it fit in with the Jews fleeing and being kept save by God for 1260 days?

Wickus,

This is also a very good question. But let's look at what Scripture indicates, and let we who are Truly Watching - not put "assumptions" into it as man has.

This particular question that you ask, comes from Revelation 12:13-17 which reads:

"And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea." - ESV translation

Now again, there are specific time limitations that man has given any End Time scenario, and that being either 1,260 days or the entire 7 years; being 2,520 days. But is Scripture really saying that?

No, Scripture mentions a 7 year Covenant being Confirmed - ending the final seven 7 years; the AOD, and the ending of sacrifices (together) coming to it's fruition on day 1,290; then it gives a special blessing to those who make it to day 1,335. (Daniel 12:11-12)

So to answer your question Wickus, Scripture indicates that the "woman" or Israel will flee to the wilderness for 1,260 days - or for a time, and times, and half a time; where she will be "nourished". Many have "ASSUMMED" that this will be until the Return of Christ; or in conjunction with the AOD. I don't read that in Scripture. As a matter of fact, I believe that people will die, (even those who are protected in the wilderness); women will have children - as indicated in the aforementioned passage of Scripture; in that it mentions that Satan goes off to make war with the "rest" of her offspring. All of this does not negate the fact that the "nourishment" for 1,260 days could not be completed prior to the AOD - which will have come to it's fruition at day 1,290; or the Return of Christ - which seems to be on day 1,335. We must then ask, why does Scripture indicate a Blessing for those who waits, and comes to day 1,335?

[eschologizer]

Dr. Baldy,

Very interesting thoughts! Thank you for putting time and effort into researching and explaining this view!

I would like to share my thoughts on the subject.

I completely agree that there is much in place with the ENPI and that many events that need to be in place have come to fruition. I will still remember this ENPI until the day I die, if nothing comes of it, because it will be on of the most anomalous things in my entire life experience. How could a ten nation alliance in Europe come, just like the prophets and fathers said would come? Then a leader comes after them, and wrestles with 3 of them for influence, and being successful in that endeavor. Then making a seven year covenant with Israel, just like the prophet Daniel, and Irenaeus and Hyppolytus and others around the world agree.

How could God let this happen, and it not be it?? Why would God do this to us, if now is not the time??? I don't know, but there is still time for this ENPI.

I appreciate very much, Mr. Baldy, your willingness to counter deep-seated assumptions that have been made in the prophetic world, which cause people to overlook events that should be paid deep attention to and are likely the fulfillments of prophecy, that have no excuse to at least be watched. I am very grateful of your willingness to stand up in debate on this board, and open the ENPI up to criticism, even when it has issues that, at the surface, cause the human mind to doubt, even though they are not outside of God's power.

Nonetheless, as difficult as it would be for me to give up the ENPI, I struggle, theologically, with the idea that, with the information we have presented in the Bible, that we can reasonably have an abomination of desolation after the end of the 70th week, or much after July 20th. Allow me to explain. (Also, forgive me if I have in any way misrepresented your position, Mr. Baldy.)

By the termination of the 70 weeks, and, by definition, the termination of the 70th week itself, the following conditions must be met, as you mentioned.

Daniel 9:24 NASB

24"Seventy (A)weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to (B)make atonement for iniquity, to bring in (C)everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

Specifically for the Jews and Jerusalem, 70 weeks are decreed to:

1. To finish the transgression
2. To make an end of sin
3. To make atonement for iniquity
4. To bring in everlasting righteousness
5. To seal up vision and prophecy
6. To anoint the most holy place

Concerning the last week, we are given information:

Daniel 9:27 NASB

27"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of (A)abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a (B)complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

Daniel 9:27 ESV

27And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week,[a] and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering.(A) And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until(B) the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."

It says someone will make a firm covenant for seven years. But for half of those aforementioned seven years he will cause sacrifice and offering to be put to an end. And also, someone will make desolate until he is destroyed (by many people's interpretation, the same person who makes the covenant).

According to our theory, the European Neighborhood and Partnership Instrument is the confirmation of the covenant for 1 week mentioned above. This means that the 7-year covenant itself seems to determine the parameters of the final week. So, in our case, the 70th week began on 1 January 2007 and terminates on 31 December 2013.

We could argue that God has a different timetable than man's and that his 70th week merely loosely corresponds with man's covenant, but this is hard to justify in my opinion, especially since it is too late for the 70th week to operate on a Jewish calendar, and because the passage itself seems to define the last week as defined by the duration of the covenant, and because it seems there is no other 7 year period for which we could say is "God's last week" other than the period of time provided by the ENPI itself.

So, in summary, the 70th week is 1 January 2007 ----> 31 December 2013 because:

1) The covenant duration defines the last week, according to the above verse.
2) The ENPI is decreed from 1 January 2007 until 31 December 2013.
3) It is too late for the 70th week to operate on a Jewish calendar. (i.e. only lasting 7 Jewish years)
4) There is no other 7 year time frame that could be "God's week" vs. man's, that I am aware of, other than what is provided by the ENPI duration itself.

Given this, 1 January 2007-->31 December 2013 duration is the 70th week itself, if the ENPI is the covenant.

By the end of the 70 weeks, according to Daniel 9:24, the following must be accomplished for the Jews and Jerusalem:

1. To finish the transgression
2. To make an end of sin
3. To make atonement for iniquity
4. To bring in everlasting righteousness
5. To seal up vision and prophecy
6. To anoint the most holy place

(Note this is decreed for "your people" and "your holy city." It does not necessarily, and probably does not apply, to the world at large. For example, at the 7th trumpet, Christ seems to establish his earthly kingdom, but the Antichrist is not completely eradicated until the end of the bowl judgments and Armageddon.)

Therefore since 1 January 2007 --> 31 December 2013 is the last week, all of the above things must be accomplished by the end of 31 December 2013 as well.

We also are aware of certain end time events that take place for a specified period of time:

A.2"Leave out the (C)court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for (D)it has been given to the nations; and they will (E)tread under foot (F)the holy city for (G)forty-two months. (Revelation 11:2)
B.3"And I will grant authority to my two (H)witnesses, and they will prophesy for (I)twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in (J)sackcloth." (Revelation 11:3)
C.6Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for (BS)one thousand two hundred and sixty days. (Revelation 12:6)
D.5There was given to him a mouth (DN)speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for (DO)forty-two months was given to him.(Revelation 13:5)

In summary:

A. The nations trample Jerusalem for 42 months.
B. The two witnesses prophesy 1260 days
C. Israelites protected in the desert for 1260 days
D. The beast has authority for 42 months.

I am going to speak in a very straightforward way, just for sake of clarity of my position. It is by no means meant to be taken undiplomatically, nor is it meant to sound in any way unfriendly or unkind. This is just for clarity's sake.

I struggle with the idea that any of these time periods of 42 months/1260 days, can exceed the end of the 70th week (in our case, 31 December 2013) for the following reasons:

1)It is hard to say that transgression and sin are brought to an end, and everlasting righteousness is brought in for Jerusalem, when the two witnesses lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem after the 1260 days and are gloated over by the world.

2) Also, they lay in the street before the 7th trumpet, when it is said that God's kingdom becomes terrestrial. The whole period of 1260 days happens before this event.

3) It is hard to say that transgression and sin are brought to an end in Jerusalem, and everlasting righteousness is brought in for Jerusalem, if the Gentiles are trampling the city for 42 months.

4) It is hard in my opinion, to say that sin and transgression are brought to an end for Jerusalem, and everlasting righteousness is in place in Jerusalem, when the Jews are not even in Jerusalem, but are nourished for 1260 days in the desert.

5) It is hard to say, in my opinion, to say that sin and transgression are brought in, and everlasting righteousness brought in for the city, when the beast has authority for 42 months and Christ has not yet established any kind of authority on earth (7th trumpet). Also, since the AOD happens in Israel and Jerusalem, this also applies for why the AOD cannot happen after 31 December 2013.

As far as the 1290 days and the 1335 days, here is my view:

I realize that any estimations regarding these numbers cannot be totally certain. Nevertheless, there are some things that I would have difficulty with it.

Daniel 12:11 ESV

11And from the time that(A) the regular burnt offering is taken away and(B) the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.

It is said that from the time of the sacrifice being taken away and the AOD is set up, there will be 1290 days. It does not seem to say to me from the time sacrifice is abolished until the AOD, there will be 1290 days. It says "and" tying the two events together when linking them to the number 1290 days, and using the word "from" indicating that those events start the 1290 days.

The 1,335 days could apply to the Millenium, and those who pass the sheep and goat judgment and are not destroyed by Christ before the kingdom.

One possible explanation of the disparity between the 42 months/1260 days of Revelation and the 1290 days of Daniel 12:11 is what is included in the time frame of Daniel vs. Revelation. Daniel includes the defeat of the Antichrist in the discussion. However, the 42 months of Revelation do not include the defeat of the Antichrist in my opinion, because Christ seems to establish his throne on earth shortly after the 42 months/1260 days of Revelation 11 and the two witnesses are over. However, all throughout the bowl judgments after Christ has established his thrown at the 7th trumpet, the beast still has political authority and is not completely defeated until Armageddon. So basically, Revelation's 42 months describes when the beast has full sway, while Daniel includes the whole tenure of Antichrist, including the time before and up until his defeat.


So in summary, if the 70th week ends 31 December 2013, then all 6 criteria of the 70 weeks must be completed.


Again, I immensely appreciate all the work you have done Mr Baldy, defending and researching this theory, and exposing pre-conceived notions. However, I just personally struggle with any AOD, beast rule, or Gentile trampling of Jerusalem, later than July 21, because then they don't have enough time before the end of the 70th week to complete the allotted tasks for the appropriate amount of time, because once the 70th week ends, certain events don't seem to be compatible with the termination of the 70 weeks.

Now if the AOD happens in September, for example, totally flying in the face of my expectations, then I will accept it. Like you said, things often have happened contrary to our expectations. That is why it is important for us all to be watchful for anything at all times. Even the prewrath.com website readily admits we could be in th 70th week and completely not realize it. They could have made another 7 year covenant 2 years ago and we missed it. (I am hypothetically speaking). However, it in my opinion, the ENPI supplies so many theological problems for an AOD after the month of July, that the theory can't really be advocated any more, or hold up to theological scrutiny. (Not to say that we can't at least keep periodic tabs on it just for security purposes, but it seems to have been significantly defeated by the end of July at least, but more likely around the 21st or 22nd.

These are just my thoughts and I could be wrong, as I have in the past. I just wanted to share with you my thoughts, and I very much mean the entirety of this message to be taken in a friendly and diplomatic manner. If for some reason I poorly worded something that seems to come off wrong, please forgive me.

Thanks,

Eschologizer

[WOODHENOT3]

Very well said Eschologizer......lets see what happens this coming week...
I very much agree this ENPI is the covenant as well....I am expecting
some things beyond our imagination to happen at the same time.
When a prophesy is be fulfilled, we tend to learn more....God like those who open
their eyes searching the Truth....:)

[Wickus]

Agreed.

Prophecy is mostly hindsight, so we can get some nice surprises. The main thing is, keep watching. We are closer that we think. I do not think we are of track.

[Mr Baldy]

Hi Eschologizer,

First I also want to thank you for bringing forth your thoughts. This is EXACTLY what is needed to edify the Body of Christ, as we attempt to understand what God has commanded us to do. I also want you to understand that I certainly don't take it personal if someone disagrees with me; as a matter of fact, I really do appreciate it, as it causes me to delve deeper into the topic at hand.

Now I want to comment on some of the points that you have made.

Given this, 1 January 2007-->31 December 2013 duration is the 70th week itself, if the ENPI is the covenant. By the end of the 70 weeks, according to Daniel 9:24, the following must be accomplished for the Jews and Jerusalem:

1. To finish the transgression
2. To make an end of sin
3. To make atonement for iniquity
4. To bring in everlasting righteousness
5. To seal up vision and prophecy
6. To anoint the most holy place

Ok, first I want to say again that I believe that the ENP(I) IS the confirming 7 year process of the Covenant with Many. Now, in saying that, I believe that the aforementioned Scripture that you have presented (Daniel 9:24) may have a deeper meaning than most of us truly understand. Let me explain...... It has always been assumed that by the end of the 70th week all of these things must be completed - when we know very well that sin (which is the 2nd requirement mentioned) will not end. There will be those that are allowed into the Millennial Kingdom that will sin, they will rebel against Christ, and they will die. So requirements 1-4 of the 6 that have been mentioned will not have been completed - and they won't until AFTER the Millennial Reign of Christ.

It is hard in my opinion, to say that sin and transgression are brought to an end for Jerusalem, and everlasting righteousness is in place in Jerusalem, when the Jews are not even in Jerusalem, but are nourished for 1260 days in the desert.

Out of your rebuttal I want to comment on the aforementioned statement that you have mentioned, as I can provide immediate Scripture for a difference of opinion, and I will tie the rest of what you have mentioned in my closure. In reading Revelation 12:13-17 I believe that it provides clear evidence that not all Jews will be in the wilderness, as it states that Satan will attack her offspring:

13) And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14) But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. 15) The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. 16) But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17) Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea. (ESV Translation)

Again, as you can see it appears as if there will be some Jews who will not be protected, as Satan becomes furious and makes war with them, after not being able to get to the Jews in the wilderness.

It is said that from the time of the sacrifice being taken away and the AOD is set up, there will be 1290 days. It does not seem to say to me from the time sacrifice is abolished until the AOD, there will be 1290 days. It says "and" tying the two events together when linking them to the number 1290 days, and using the word "from" indicating that those events start the 1290 days.

The 1,335 days could apply to the Millenium, and those who pass the sheep and goat judgment and are not destroyed by Christ before the kingdom.

Eschologizer, the aforementioned passages of Scripture has been the most difficult for me to digest. Even with the way that you have presented it here still poses a problem; in that we still have 75 days that is not explained. Whether or not the AOD and the sacrifice starting or ending at the same time, we still have to consider the 1,290 days given; which is 30 days greater than the 1,260. And the 1335 days are 45 days greater than the 1,290. All totalling 75 days after the "assumed" 1,260 days that this is all to be completed by.

In closing, I'm not trying to be right, or even prove a point with any of this. I just want to get the TRUE meaning of what all this is. There are apparent holes in each of these theories that we have put forth. I am submitting that all the "assumptions" made concerning end time events has the ability to cloud one's mind. Daniel 9:24 could very well have a deeper meaning - and I believe that it does, as the 6 requirements mentioned will NOT have been completed by the close of the 1,260 days. We know that sin, death, and rebellion will continue in the Millennial Kingdom, and all those things mentioned in Daniel 9:24 won't be completely here until the New Jerusalem. Folks, we have a 7 year confirmed Covenant with Many in place, and a whole host of other requirements by Scripture that is in place. I again do believe that we have entered the 70th week. Remember they missed the signs on Christ's first coming, and it was because of "assumptions". Eschologizer, and others, keep it coming baby! We need deep thinkers, and those who have a heart for delving into the truth!

[WOODHENOT3]

Right now is nothing but a "wait and see"...no movement seem to be happening yet or is there?

[DutchLady]

Haven't heard or seen anything special but still watching ofcourse.

[Wickus]

Very wise of you.

There were no fireworks when Jesus was born. Only a few shepherds witnessed the greatest event that ever happened.

There were also no fireworks in the past 2 days, but it is not to say that something has happened that we did not hear about.

It is now in the hands of the Lord to guide us.

[WOODHENOT3]

When the AoD is revealed, it should be obvious, otherwise,
how would the Jewws flee to the mountains?

[Wickus]

When the AoD is revealed, it should be obvious, otherwise,
how would the Jewws flee to the mountains?

I totally agree. The AoD is THE sign that Jesus talked about. But is the AoD in the in the middle of the 70th week according to Dan 9:27?

[WOODHENOT3]

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
Scripture does say in the Middle.....

[Wickus]

The more correct translation says midst of the week. And the only requirement is for sacrifice to be stopped. The AoD can happen any time after that. Read verse 24.

Sorry for the short explanation. I am still busy doing a study on it myself to grasp it all.

[WOODHENOT3]

How do you explain the Anti-Christ reign for 1260 days?

[Mr Baldy]

How do you explain the Anti-Christ reign for 1260 days?

Woody,

If I may...this again is yet another one of the "things" that have been read into; and a misconception as far as Watcher's trying to figure out how all of this works out.

Revelation 13:5 is would be the Scripture that you are referring to, it reads:

"There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him."

In reading the aforementioned passage of Scripture - please note that the Antichrist is given "authority to act for forty-two months" this DOES NOT negate the fact that his reign could be longer. However, we do know from Revelation 12:14 that the Jews will be protected from him for 42 months, or 1,260 days.

[WOODHENOT3]

OK, so, if the AoD reveals let's say in September....where would the 1260 days fit in for the Jews if the end of the 70th week is Dec. 31, 2013?....it would be less than 1260 days right? It doesn't seem to line up unless I am missing something...I am just trying to figure this out....

[Mr Baldy]

OK, so, if the AoD reveals let's say in September....where would the 1260 days fit in for the Jews if the end of the 70th week is Dec. 31, 2013?....it would be less than 1260 days right? It doesn't seem to line up unless I am missing something...I am just trying to figure this out....

Let me qualify why I still believe that the ENP(I) is still the prophesied confirming period of the 1995 Euro-Med - which I believe fulfills the requirements of Daniel 9:27, and is indeed the Covenant with Many. (This is a work in progress with others, whom I am communicating with, in an attempt to figure this all out)

First, the ENP(I) and the 70th week can run concurrently. Yes the ENP(I) does end on December 31, 2013, but if you read Daniel 9:27 it states that in the "midst" of the covenant, the AC will put a stop to the sacrifice; then read Daniel 12:11-12. In reading Daniel 12:11-12 you will see that it ties the "midst" in with the AOD, coming to day 1,290. This is definately outside of the 1,260 days that many have viewed. So the "midst" could be the key in factoring in how this all relates to the ENP(I) and the 70th week.

Jesus Himself refers to the AOD, when speaking about His Return (Matthew 24:15). Daniel 12:11 mentions the "midst" of the 7 year covenant, and the AOD coming to day 1,290, and "Blessed" is he who waits, and comes to the 1,335 days (Daniel 12:11-13). Day 1,335 could be the Return of Christ, in which the 70th week is fulfilled.

So, in closing, the ENP(I) and the 70th week can run concurrently (IMHO). As the only requirement would be that a 7 year confirmed Covenant with Many be in place; and in the "midst of it the sacrifices are stopped. I could be wrong about this, but as of now, I'm still watching the ENP(I), and how situations in it develop.

[WOODHENOT3]

Thanks, it's pretty interesting though....I am pretty convinced the ENP(I) is the covenant with many as well...
we will have to keep tracking it...and see if this is the real deal.....we have to be careful not to be too caught up with assumptions though....

[Mr Baldy]

we have to be careful not to be too caught up with assumptions though....

I agree!

What I have provided is not an assumption, but an "educated guess" based on what Scripture provides. I have not assumed that what I have stated is an absolute.

What has been an assumption by many, even to include myself initially - is that the "beginning of the Covenant with Many" starts the 70th week. This error has been pointed out by "imightdecrease". This is why I believe that the ENP(I) theory is still very valid.

This is also why I now believe that the ENP(I) can run concurrent with the 70th week. We may not know when the 70th week has begun; as there is no indicator of it's beginning with Scripture - but if the ENP(I) is indeed the 7 year time frame in which the Covenant with Many is confirmed, then we can know that we are in the 70th week if we learn how the "midst" is applied.

[eschologizer]

(Admins, if you feel the following comments are inappropriate for this area of the board (because of its perspective on the ENPI framework), please move it to where you believe it is most appropriate.)

Mr. Baldy,

Very interesting thoughts. I too have seen the possibility presented on Borntowatch, regarding this issue. It is an intriguing idea.

However, I still cannot get around some aspects of it, as unfortunate as that is.

Daniel 9:24; 27

24 "Seventy 'sevens' [a] are decreed.............................

........27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.'

To me, this really seems to indicate that the covenant is confirmed for one of the 70 "sevens" listed at the beginning of the passage. As difficult and painful as this is for me, theologically, I greatly struggle with the idea that the confirmation of the covenant is somehow unrelated to the start of the 70th week. A natural reading just doesn't seem to say that, in my opinion. Also, once Arterxes issued the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, the sevens kicked off immediately. Also, I believe to say that the most parsimonious explanation is that the 70th week begins at the start of the covenant.

I too am greatly saddened, angered, frustrated, confused, and every other possible feeling associated with what has happened to this theory. I feel like God has done to all of us what God had done to Jeremiah.

7O LORD, You have deceived me and I was deceived;
You have (D)overcome me and prevailed
I have become a (E)laughingstock all day long;
Everyone (F)mocks me.

I know the odds are crazy. I just don't understand either. But still, as much as I appreciate what you, and everyone else is doing to explore the possibilities associated with this verse, I just can't see it going forward from any sort of theological standpoint. I mean if God causes some end time events to transpire tomorrow then that is really good and God has found a way forward. But I feel that if I went to someone and tried to advocate this theory, I feel would not have any ground to stand on theologically. (Not from the perspective of the road signs, but from the perspective of that I could not possibly present a way in which those road signs are likely still viable).

I seriously don't understand the odds of this but the fact that this ENPI thing fell through is like objects falling up and 1+1=3. It is terribly anomalous and I, until the day I die, will never fully understand, why God allowed us to be deceived.



Blessings to you,

Eschologizer

[DutchLady]

You were never decieved.
You just saw the fact as they happened, linked them to the Word of God and watched as you were told to. ENPI is not a belief system or a religion on it's own, or even a prophecy on it's own, and it is not a lie. It's simply a theory, and theories can be wrong. In the end you were obedient to God and you should never feel sorry or feel dissapointed, or even feel decieved.

It's like math. It's either correct or not, if it's not, it's simply not.
You have an outcome, wich is X
You have a formula, wich is a+b+c = X
You are given a and b, but c is not given yet
Turns out c is not given, instead you get d
X is not the outcome

Did the provider of the formula give you the formula to decieve you, or to help you recognize X? Logically speaking, it was given to recognize X.

Besides, we were told to watch, not to will it in to happening. Our opinions of it happening or our feelings or expectations we are having, don't matter.
It's happening some time wether anyone likes it or not. We were just given the 'formula' and the command to keep using it, to see if 'this is it'. We did that, we'll be doing it a long time. Or not. Maybe very soon the outcome is X.

Just keep watching and doing what God expects you to do. You can feel excited and all that, but keep analyzing like you always have. And remember that it doesn't matter how we feel about it. It's in Gods hands and we can trust in Him 100%.

[WOODHENOT3]

Exactly DutchLady !!
When the AoD appears, we will know....
I believe Jesus made it clear, once you see the AoD, you (the ones watching) will
know you are here. Jesus made it clear.....there is no trick to prophecy,
otherwise, how would you bare witness for Jesus?
If there is no AoD this summer, then I would say the ENPI is dead....
Let's wait and see what happens with the Mid-term review...

[Mr Baldy]

To me, this really seems to indicate that the covenant is confirmed for one of the 70 "sevens" listed at the beginning of the passage. As difficult and painful as this is for me, theologically, I greatly struggle with the idea that the confirmation of the covenant is somehow unrelated to the start of the 70th week.

Dear Eschologizer,

Have you really looked at what you have posted? If so, you will see that there is an "assumption" on your part - and a very valid "assumption" at that. Now if I may explain my take, and/or view point......

Let me say this......The covenant could very well be confirmed "for one of the 70 'sevens' " however; the covenant being "confirmed" has absolutely NOTHING to do with the beginning of the final week per se; but it does relate to the beginning as it relates to when the "midst" is to occur; or that fact that the "midst" is mentioned, in connection with the AOD. The start of the 70th week being at the beginning the time the Covenant with Many is confirmed, has been an assumption. As Scott from Born to Watch has stated - and I applaud his diligent study for this - "Jesus never mentions the exact count of the number of day there is from the beginning of the Covenant with Many to the AOD." No instead, Jesus Himself refers to the AOD mentioned by Daniel the Prophet.

Daniel mentions in Daniel 12:11-12 that from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away; or ("midst") and the AOD is set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Now this is a number of days - why is everyone who considers this theory avoiding Daniel 12:11-12? This also falls outside of the traditional belief that only 1,260 days are permitted. Now then, we must question why Jesus referred to it; meaning the AOD.


The point I am attempting to make is that Scripture provides no clear indicator of WHAT actually begins the 70th week. It does however supply a final week in which the Antichrist confirms the Covenant with Many - then subsequently causes the sacrifice to stop at it's midst. The AOD is mentioned in Daniel 9:27, but it is not used in conjunction with the "midst" as coming to the 1,290 days until we read Daniel 12:11-12. I believe this is why Jesus refers to the AOD.

In using this information in unison, I believe that we can safely say that although we cannot pinpoint the beginning of the 70th week, it can run concurrent with the ENP(I), or Confirmation of a 7 year confirmed Covenant with Many; in that in the "midst" things will have started - bringing us to the AOD - which Jesus Himself refers to.

IMHO WE absolutely cannot be dogmatic about ruling about the ENP(I) at this point. The evidence is there. Let's keep Watching!!

[Mr Baldy]

I will also say that it is the attention to details, which will fine tune our accuracy into the End Time events.

[Sonbeam]

Mr. Baldy and all,

I haven't really focused my study on the 7 yr cov, so I don’t have anything to add on that other than, isn't it possible that it could be carried out secretly so we wouldn't be able to know the date? Just a thought.

I do have some comments regarding Rev Chap 12 which has also been mentioned on this thread. But I believe what I have to say probably belongs on another thread--possibly the prophecy questions/answers one.

See you there!
Sonbeam

[Mr Baldy]

I haven't really focused my study on the 7 yr cov, so I don’t have anything to add on that other than, isn't it possible that it could be carried out secretly so we wouldn't be able to know the date? Just a thought.

Hi Sonbeam,

I see that you now have 8 posts to your credit, and I don't know if you've been welcomed, but let me take this opportunity to do so now !

What you mention is so critical to understanding, that I believe that many may just miss very key elements that point to this event - and they will still be caught up looking for a "7 year Peace deal" - which Scripture, by absolutely no means mentions none of the sort.

I really don't believe that it will be "carried out secretly" per se - but what I do wholeheartedly believe that is many will miss it because of preconceived ideas, thoughts, and teachings, that the actual commencement of the 7 year Covenant with Many will have come and gone - and they won't recognize it until perhaps the AOD; if they're even fortunate to see that, or when Christ Returns. At that point they may be able to finally look back and say.... WOW the SIGNS were actually there the whole time!