Mid-term review?

Debate only within the framework of the ENPI theory

Mid-term review?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:19 pm

Just wondering, any midterm review of the ENPI nations happening yet?
I'd thought the AoD would be revealed this week... :dunno:
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:41 pm

When would you consider the ENPI to be invalid? after this week is over?
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby Wickus on Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:30 pm

Hi WOODHENOT3

The mid term review is not the main focus point of this theory, but the AoD in the midst of the 7 year timeframe. Just hang on to the 20/21st. From that date we have 1260 days to 31 Dec 2013. After that there is just not enough time left for this theory to survive.

From a human prospective I must admit that it does look like it will fail. But if this is Gods timeline, we are in for some surprises.
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:46 am

Wickus wrote:The mid term review is not the main focus point of this theory, but the AoD in the midst of the 7 year timeframe. Just hang on to the 20/21st. From that date we have 1260 days to 31 Dec 2013. After that there is just not enough time left for this theory to survive.


Hi Wickus, and I just thought about this.......

Actually, this (July 20th) would be the "midst" in which the "daily sacrifices" should come to a stop. Accordingly, the AOD tied in with the cessation of "daily sacrifices" should be 1,290 days - which would bring in August 19th, 2010. (Daniel 12:11) The events on July 20th, (cessation of sacrifices) could possibly go virtually unnoticed; in that the manner in which they come to a "stop" or "cessation" would not be recognized by the populace in general - to include fellow Watchers.

**Note: Jesus mentions the AOD , and refers to the Prophet Daniel, and NOT the "midst" or "cessation of sacrifice being stopped" - let the reader understand. (Matthew 24:15)

Now, I want to state without fear of contradiction....I am certainly not adding days - It's just my interpretation that Daniel 9:27 occurs in the "midst" of the 7 year time period, and if this is July 20th; being on day 1,260 - then day 1,290 would be August 19th, 2010 for the AOD, and the cessation of sacrifices - to have occurred. (Again Daniel 12:11)

Another thing to consider, is that "IF" July 20th IS DAY #1 of the 1,260 remaining days, or 3.5 years (this is still within the 7 year established time frame of the ENP(I) theory; or middle) then a 30 day time period would still exist - which would have the AOD occurring on January 30th, 2014.

Remember that Scripture states gives us the "midst" or "middle" of the 7 year period that the sacrifices would come to a stop. However, it then states that from the time that the sacrifices have been stopped AND the AOD, it will be 1,290 days. So if July 20th, 2010 is the "midst"; and is considered day #1 of the final 1,260 days then we would be looking to see the AOD on day 1,290 - which would be January 30th, 2014.

I would also like to add that there has always been an assumption that the Great Tribulation begins the 1,260 day period. I actually "think" this could be wrong, so to make a point, I will beg to differ. Jesus states that after the AOD that there will be "great tribulation" or "a great tribulation" in some translations - in contrast to "The Great Tribulation" actually beginning.

My point is, that if July 20th, 2010 begins day 1 of the 1,260 days left to "end" of the requirements set forth in Daniel 9:24; then day 1,290 should be January 30th, 2014 - in which the AOD should occur. Great Tribulation starts; and lasts for 45 days, bringing the total days to day 1,335. (Daniel 12:11-13) Not only does this meet the requirements of Scripture, it also could explain why Jesus mentions that those days are cut short; the time period in which the Beast is given power to continue;(So Javier Solana could still very well be in the picture); the timing in which the Jews flee to the wilderness; and the reward for those who actually survive and make it to Day 1,335.

In closing, I am certainly open to discuss this - of course all within the "framework" of the ENP(I), as this section allows, and I could certainly be wrong. :grin:

**** "EDITED TO CORRECT AOD date for second senario to January 30th, 2014"
Last edited by Mr Baldy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby Loop on Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:57 am

Hi Wickus, and I just thought about this.......

Actually, this (July 20th) would be the "midst" in which the "daily sacrifices" should come to a stop. Accordingly, the AOD tied in with the cessation of "daily sacrifices" should be 1,290 days - which would bring in August 19th, 2010. (Daniel 12:11) The events on July 20th, (cessation of sacrifices) could possibly go virtually unnoticed; in that the manner in which they come to a "stop" or "cessation" would not be recognized by the populace in general - to include fellow Watchers.

**Note: Jesus mentions the AOD , and refers to the Prophet Daniel, and NOT the "midst" or "cessation of sacrifice being stopped" - let the reader understand. (Matthew 24:15)

Now, I want to state without fear of contradiction....I am certainly not adding days - It's just my interpretation that Daniel 9:27 occurs in the "midst" of the 7 year time period, and if this is July 20th; being on day 1,260 - then day 1,290 would be August 19th, 2010 for the AOD, and the cessation of sacrifices - to have occurred. (Again Daniel 12:11)

Another thing to consider, is that "IF" July 20th IS DAY #1 of the 1,260 remaining days, or 3.5 years (this is still within the 7 year established time frame of the ENP(I) theory; or middle) then a 30 day time period would still exist - which would have the AOD occurring on January 30th, 2011.

Remember that Scripture states gives us the "midst" or "middle" of the 7 year period that the sacrifices would come to a stop. However, it then states that from the time that the sacrifices have been stopped AND the AOD, it will be 1,290 days. So if July 20th, 2010 is the "midst"; and is considered day #1 of the final 1,260 days then we would be looking to see the AOD on day 1,290 - which would be January 30th, 2011.

I would also like to add that there has always been an assumption that the Great Tribulation begins the 1,260 day period. I actually "think" this could be wrong, so to make a point, I will beg to differ. Jesus states that after the AOD that there will be "great tribulation" or "a great tribulation" in some translations - in contrast to "The Great Tribulation" actually beginning.

My point is, that if July 20th, 2010 begins day 1 of the 1,260 days left to "end" of the requirements set forth in Daniel 9:24; then day 1,290 should be January 30th, 2011 - in which the AOD should occur. Great Tribulation starts; and lasts for 45 days, bringing the total days to day 1,335. (Daniel 12:11-13) Not only does this meet the requirements of Scripture, it also could explain why Jesus mentions that those days are cut short; the time period in which the Beast is given power to continue;(So Javier Solana could still very well be in the picture); the timing in which the Jews flee to the wilderness; and the reward for those who actually survive and make it to Day 1,335.

In closing, I am certainly open to discuss this - of course all within the "framework" of the ENP(I), as this section allows, and I could certainly be wrong.


Hmmm Very interesting...
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:09 am

I thought the 1260th day was June 14, 2010...how did you figure July 20th being the 1260th day from Jan. 1, 2007?
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby eschologizer on Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:22 am

WOODHENOT,

Here are some date calculations that may be of use to you:

You are correct in this statement:

January 1, 2007 -------> 1260 days ----> June 14, 2010.

With the July 20/21st issue, if we back up from the end of the ENPI 1260 days, we get July 20, 2010. (Or inclusively, July 21).

December 31, 2013 ------subtract 1260 days -----> July 20, 2010.

The reason the July 20 or 21st date seem so important is two fold. First, July 20th of this year is the Jewish day of destruction (9th of Av) and both temples were destroyed on this date, along with a host of other catastrophes for the Jewish people throughout history.

Most importantly, however, is that it is required for the beast to have 42 months to rule. 42 months = 1260 days on a Jewish calendar. Also, we know that the Jews hide in the desert 1260 days and the Gentiles trample the holy city for 42 months.

Personally, it seems unlikely to me, that the 70th week could end during the main tenure of the rule of the beast, or while the Gentiles trample the holy city. This is the case because all requirements for the Jews and Jerusalem outlined in Daniel 9:24 must be met by the end of the 70 weeks.

Daniel 9:24 NASB

24"Seventy (A)weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to (B)make atonement for iniquity, to bring in (C)everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.


In my opinion, it cannot be the case that the 70 weeks to end while the beast has authority over Jerusalem, or the Gentiles are trampling the city, or the Jews are hiding in the desert, two witnesses preaching, etc, because all of the criteria for the end of the 70 weeks listed above in the verse would not be met. Especially considering that the Messianic rule of Jesus doesn't start until the 7th trumpet at the earliest.

Now if the ENPI is the duration of the 70th week, then that would be from 1 January 2007 ---> 7 years ---> 31 December 2013.

Basically, if it gets to be, just for sake of argument, September, then there is no longer 1260 days left before the end of the 70th week, and in my opinion the theory is false. This is also appears to be the case insofar as there are less than 1260 days left before the end of the ENPI.

I could be wrong about this, but that is the way I see it. I have been wrong about things before!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes here by giving this explanation, but I hope it is helpful to you.

Great question btw.

I think discussion on the exact dates is important, considering the impact of this being true/not true. I would be willing to discuss with anyone this topic, and be willing to discuss alternative viewpoints as well, if desired by others.

Thanks to all.
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:19 am

Please re-check my previous post. I had to edit it to read that AOD should or could possibly occur on January 30th, 2014.

eschologizer wrote:In my opinion, it cannot be the case that the 70 weeks to end while the beast has authority over Jerusalem, or the Gentiles are trampling the city, or the Jews are hiding in the desert, two witnesses preaching, etc, because all of the criteria for the end of the 70 weeks listed above in the verse would not be met.


Yes, but perhaps we are overlooking something. If the midst of the 7 year ENP(I) is 1,260 days from December 31, 2013, is July 20th, 2010; then July 20th, 2010 could be day #1. The 1,260th day would be December 31st, 2013 - the requirements of Daniel 9:24 could be completed. An additional 30 day time period would bring it to day 1,290 - making it January 30th, 2014 - when the AOD could possibly occur. After this great tribulation occurs for 45 days - some of which may be cut short - but bringing it to day 1335. This by the way, could be what Daniel 12:11-13 means, as only days 1,290 and 1335 are mentioned.
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:34 am

There have been a lot of assumptions concerning the 70th week.

Right now, we have everything in place, as far as requirements that meet the End Time events - as it relates to a "Confirmed Covenant with Many" - a "10 Nation Confederacy" - a "Man associated with the number 666; who subsequently was in power at the time the Covenant was confirmed" - we further have evidence that this same 10 Nation Confederacy is about to disband; which could lead to it's only purpose to begin with, and that is to give power to the beast for one hour.(Revelation 17:12-13)

Now considering this, and even with the requirements of Daniel 9:24 - why have we assumed that everything has to take place within a 1,260 day period; when this specific numbering of days doesn't even mention the return of Christ - as some have assumed that it does?

Yes, the Church will hide in the wilderness and be protected for 1,260 days. Yes the Antichrist will be given "authority to act" or "power to continue" for 1,260 days. Yes, the ENP(I) was for a period of 7 years, and as of July 20th, 2010 to December 31st, 2013, there are 1,260 days. But how does all of this relate to Daniel 9:24, and the Return of Christ?

I am submitting that the ENP(I) is still very much ALIVE. I am also submitting that we have perhaps overlooked something. I am suggesting that Daniel 9:24 can be fulfilled within the time restraints of the ENP(I), and I am also submitting that some - to include myself have included the AOD into this time period which only speaks of a 1,260 day process. This may be in error.

Jesus mentions the AOD in Matthew 24:15; refers to Daniel the Prophet; but He never mentions the number of days. Well, the book if Daniel does. It specifically mentions day 1,290 & day 1,335. Daniel 9:27 mentions in the "midst" of the 7 year period the sacrifice and grain offering will be stopped. Now, I submit, that this could be day #1 of the 1,260 day 7 year time period - also the beginning of the time, times, and half of time. The Jews could possibly at that point have began to fulfill Revelation 12:6, and the Power granted to the Antichrist for 42 months; Revelation 13:5. However, no where in Scripture do I read that all of these evens happen at the EXACT same time.

There is a 75 day time period that no one can seem to explain. With the ENP(I) theory alive and well, at this point, I am submitting that it could be possible that if December 31st, 2013 is day 1,260; then all of the requirements of Daniel 9:24 could be met. Day 1,290 would be January 30th, 2014 - at which time the AOD happens, a short period of great tribulation ensues - not to exceed 45 days, then Day 1,335 (Daniel 12:11-12) would be the return of Christ .

I welcome any comments, critique, criticism, and/or additional advise. :mrgreen:
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby jgilberAZ on Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:42 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:I welcome any comments, critique, criticism, and/or additional advise.


Well, you're not going to get much in the ENPi only part of the forum.

:grin:
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby Wickus on Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:16 pm

Mr Baldy, it is the first time that I have seen an explanation like this. As much as I want to cling to the ENP theory I will have to say that I still think something must happen on the 20th to keep this alive. If nothing happens by then I will retreat silently and see were this is taking us.

There is so much happening in the world that I find it difficult to believe that we are not in the 70th week. But to convince people about it we will need some more proof than maths and numbers. So however this plays out, I believe the Lord will give His watchmen the proof of the time we are in.
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby mrgravyard49 on Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:25 pm

:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby Wickus on Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:36 pm

Why is it that mrgravyard and Jeff are always following each other? Is it only me that is noticing it?

Back to topic.
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:49 pm

Wickus wrote:Mr Baldy, it is the first time that I have seen an explanation like this. As much as I want to cling to the ENP theory I will have to say that I still think something must happen on the 20th to keep this alive.


Wickus, this is precisely my point. Something DOES have to happen on July 20th - and that would be the cessation of sacrifices, and as I have mentioned this may go virtually unnoticed. Looking at July 20th, 2010 on a 7 year time scale divided in half- this would be day #1 of the 2nd half of the 1,260 days. At the end of the 1,260 days, would be December 31st, 2013. Add 30 days to that, brings you to January 30th, 2014 - and 1,290 days after the sacrifices have been stopped. Then add 45 days to the 1,290 brings you to day 1,335 that Daniel 12:11-12 mentions. At this point the requirements in Daniel 9:24 and the passages in Revelation as far as the 1,260 days, the two witnesses, and the power that the AC is given, could all be met. Not to mention, it still validates the ENP(I) theory; in that we have a 7 year Covenant covering the exact time frame.

I'm not saying that this is correct by any means, but at this point I see no reason to rule it out (unless I'm not including something, or leaving something out).
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby James1:12 on Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:36 pm

Intriguing Mr.B, let's wait and see, like you say an apparently insignifficant event on the 20th (3days time) may be all thats required, however it would have to be recognized by those watching as the cessation of sacrifices like you say.

ENP is so hard to rule out particularly now as the EU has its coveted place closer to the inner circle of the UN....just waiting to see if they get onto the UN Security Council...My current theory on this is that Germany beats them to it with support from UK and France, having cooked up a new security architecture for Europe with Russia....big guesses! This leaves the EU to have to take them down (with support from many smaller nations and bigger powers wanting seats, as it wouldn't be seen as fair for the EU to have 3 seats on the Security Council) and with a need for someone of "stature" to be present in New York.

- Sorry thats a bit off the thread of discussion but I cant help but speculate a little bit after the UN news.
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:55 am

James1:12 wrote:ENP is so hard to rule out particularly now as the EU has its coveted place closer to the inner circle of the UN.


This is yet another reason why I believe that there are things concerning the ENP(I), that relate to Bible Prophecy - that just can't seem to go away. It appears to be gaining strength, and revelance. I mean what other significant 7 year "confirming" process of a previous Covenant with Many do we need to look for? I am convinced that we are either overlooking something, or we haven't quite put the pieces of the puzzle together in the right way.

You are right, the evidence is so overwhelming, that it's just too hard to dismiss at this point. I'm just praying that we as fellow Watchers can put together the pieces of the prophetic puzzle, (as they continue to come along) to find out whether or not this theory is indeed true.

I mean just look at the facts. Then we have an American President who has by the words of his own mouth, has brought forth something that should raise the eyebrows of any Follower of Christ; and that being - "Collective Salvation". I mean come on, who would have ever thought a message like this would ever be brought forth from the President of the United States? Makes me wonder what agenda is he attempting to accomplish - and what is the true power behind it. I seriously question his actions, especially in light of the ENP(I).

Again, the timing of things as they relate to the whole idea about how the ENP(I) fits just cannot be overlooked at this point. We need to be all the more diligent in searching for "road signs" and/or evidence to see how this all fits together. So many assumptions have been made concerning End Time Prophecy, that I believe it has left some with preconceived ideas insomuch as those same ideas are counter productive to finding out the truth.

In closing, we have to look at the facts. We have to seriously, and diligently look at what Scripture has given us, and use it to edify the Body of Christ in our Watch.
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby smallisland on Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:56 pm

Has the mid-term review happened yet?
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:22 am

Has the mid-term review happened yet?

I keep asking myself that question.....and I am wondering if
the ENP is dying? :humm:

If nothing happens by the end of August, I would assume
the ENP is dead.....
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby Wickus on Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:38 am

Dan 9:27 does not ask for a covenant to be reviewed or broken. Don't count it out yet. It still remains the ONLY 7 year covenant with many that Israel ever signed into. I will count it out if it expires or JS dies.
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby smallisland on Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:52 am

Yes I agree but as its mid-term I'm interested to see what the review has to say.
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby david on Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:53 am

I use to hold to the ENPI, by it's failure I have discovered the truth.

Christ was cut off in the midst of his ministry, after 3 and half years. By his blood he paid the full price making invalide all other forms of sacrifice. Jesus yelled out "It is Finished", with those words he fulfilled or confirmed the promise of the covenant God made with Abraham. After these words were spoken Christ through the power of the Father ripped the curtain of the temple in half forever abolishing the Temple and it's practice. God had reconciled us to him removing that which separated us from Him. For what God has bound together let no man separate.


It is a grave and terrible thing to assign the Victory that rightfully belongs to Christ to another, especially an Anti-Christ.



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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby Wickus on Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:09 am

David, the problem I have with this view is that Christ's covenant is eternal and not for 7 years. The moment someone can explain out of Scripture why His eternal covenant has been reduced to 7 years, I will look into it.
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Re: Mid-term review?

Postby david on Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:02 pm

Wickus wrote:David, the problem I have with this view is that Christ's covenant is eternal and not for 7 years. The moment someone can explain out of Scripture why His eternal covenant has been reduced to 7 years, I will look into it.



Hi Wikus, that's a good point, I understand what you are saying. I use to think it refereed to the length of a treaty myself.

The way I see it; He Christ "confirmed" the Covenant with the many for one week. It is saying the confirmation is for a week, not the covenant. The presents of Christ was God's Seal or Confirmation which was to last for one week. The Seven years refers to how long Christ was to confirm Gods covenant with the many. The Verb is "Confirm" as an action word the confirmation was to last for one seven. (Now we all know Christ was cut short of a full seven, I left that part out.)

It's the Confirmation or presents of Christ that was cut off not the everlasting covenant. It's the fulfilling of a prophecy, Daniel said, he would confirm a covenant with the many for one seven but he was cut off. 9:26 & 9:27 are about the same thing, twice it says, a.) in the mist he will be cut off; b.) in the midst of the week He will cause sacrifice to cease.

The people who hung Christ on a Cross cut him off in the middle of the week. Thinking they rid themselves of Christ, they instead aided in sealing God's "Covenant" with all sinners. This whole theme of Christ being the Fulfillment of God's covenant rings true through all the Gospel.

I see I'm in the "ENPI Only" section, a few months ago I would have been able to enter. If anyone wants this deleted I will kindly do so.

Glade to see you are still here Brother. :hugs:

With Much Love & Respect

In Christ

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