Hi lambslave,
I have been meaning to respond to your last post, but have not had the chance to do so until now. I have really been busy and on top of that my computer is dying a slow death.
Coincidentally, though, the definition of "apostasy" is exactly what I wanted to discuss. I, personally, do not think "falling away" is a good translation for the original Greek word "apostasia." I don't know why the King James version did not give a word for word translation, as in "apostasy" for "apostasia." It would have made it a lot easier to understand, I think. I mean, when you think about it, what does "falling away" mean, anyway?
In any case, as you can see from the Blue Letter Bible definition, "apostasia" basically means defection.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G646&t=KJV This also seems to be the definition that is given by most
current Greek-English dictionaries. See this online dictionary for example:
http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon Also, I happen to have a
recent Greek-English lexicon at home and it gives the definition for apostasia as defection, as well.
However, apparently, when you look at
older dictionaries, as in the ones published over thirty years ago, you will find the definition of apostasia to be rebellion/revolt. At least that's the case with at least two
older dictionaries of which I happen to have in my possession. I have scanned the page from one of them as proof. (See image of part of that page at the bottom of this post.)
Also, the definition for "apostasia" is also reflected in the following definition for "apostasy" according to the American Heritage Dictionary. See below.
a·pos·ta·sy (ə-pŏs'tə-sē)
n. pl. a·pos·ta·sies
Abandonment of one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.
[Middle English apostasie, from Old French, from Late Latin apostasia, defection, from Late Greek apostasiā, from Greek apostasis, revolt, from aphistanai, aposta-, to revolt : apo-, apo- + histanai, to stand, place; see stā- in Indo-European roots.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2009 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apostasyYou may be thinking at this point, what difference does it make whether the definition for "apostasia" is falling away, defection, or revolt. Well, I think it makes a big difference, because "falling away," to me, seems to imply a gradual slipping away from the truth or a watering down of the truth. And although that may be the case today, and I agree with you that that is a big problem, I'm not so sure that this is the kind of apostasy that is being referred to in 2 Thessalonians 2.
From what I'm gathering, it seems to me that the "apostasy" being referred to in 2 Thessalonians 2 may, more precisely, be an outright rebellion or revolt (against God). Because, if that were not the case, then how would we know when it occurred, if it doesn't have a defining moment, other than the fact that it, apparently, will occur concurrently with the revealing of the "man of sin."
So to summarize my view, I think the apostasy/falling away is actually the climax or culmination of the "mystery of iniquity," which we are told was already at work when 2 Thessalonians 2 was written, and I would suspect that it still is.
Although, I'm not exactly sure when the "mystery of iniquity" might have begun, I would venture to guess that it began with the first "collective" rebellion against God, which is recorded in the book of Genesis.
Genesis 11:1-9 (King James Version)
1And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
2And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
3And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
4And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
I would also venture to guess, that once their language was confounded, the "Babelonians" (figuratively speaking for lack of a better term) did not give up their quest. I might even suspect that they may still be at it to this day. Of course, this is just my suspicion. And, of course, I don't know for sure if the "mystery of iniquity," that had already been at work at the time that 2Thessalonians 2 was written, has anything to do with the tower of Babel or not. I am only suggesting this as a possibility.
In any case, the way I'm rationalizing what has been written in 2 Thessalonians 2, is that it seems to me that God is allowing the "Babelonians" (if you will, for lack of a better term), who, apparently, are laying the ground work for the revealing of the "man of sin," who will, apparently, make his appearance, in his own time, when he sees that all systems are go, and Satan, by way of the "man of sin," to take their time and give it their best shot. Because, obviously, God could circumvent their evil plot whenever He wanted to. But God, in His infinite wisdom, has chosen to allow this plan to unfold according to His perfect will and design.
But just to be clear, this is all conjecture on my part, based on what seems to be happening in the world today, and how it could apply to what is written in the Bible. So, although, I could say, I am attempting to make an educated guess, it is still a guess nonetheless. And should be noted as such. Because, as I said before, I certainly do not have an inside track as to exactly what was meant in 2 Thessalonians 2, any more than any one else does. I am simply offering my ideas as a suggestion, in case it may, by any chance, be helpful.
Any way to summarize what I have been trying to say, It doesn't seem to me that the apostasy referred to in 2 Thessalonians 2 has any thing to do with the true church, as in true believers. Although, the apostate church may, very well have something to do with this. However, I just don't see apostasy in the church as being the
crux of the matter. Although, I do agree with you that we should take the warnings to the seven churches to heart.
There is one more thing I wanted to mention,
lambslave wrote:Paul has intoduced a condition, apostasy, which has an opposite, holding fast. So now he makes his case for why apostasy cannot have happened saying "But now you know the holding fast..." the condition which is the opposite of apostasy! You are being salt and light. So the bad guy can't appear yet. In due time. Go down to the end of his argument ...2:15
15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
New American Standard Bible . electronic edition. La Habra, CA : The Lockman Foundation, 1986; Published in electronic form by Logos Research Systems, 1996, S. 2 Th 2:15
I would not make too much of the word "katecho" which basically means to hold. See the Blue Letter Bible definition:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2722&t=KJVBecause, for example, if I were to say, "now you know what holds
[up] the coming of our Lord" and at some other time were to say, "hold
[on] to what you have been taught," I don't see why there would be any connection or relationship between these two statements, other than the fact that they both have the word "hold" in them. Just saying.
and 
, so I'll stop there. I might have worded some things incorrectly, so please ask for clarification before assuming anything.
), so if the mods would like to move it to a debate area or a Q/A area, I'm fine with that. 
and thinking 
; that's why I've been 
.
.
Still not buying it.