Sanhedrin to UN: Goldstone Will Bring Judgment Upon You

[Mttw633]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/134185

The Sanhedrin has warned the UN General Assembly not to hold a plenum debate this Wednesday on the anti-Israel Goldstone Report.

In a letter to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon and the UN's member states, the Sanhedrin warns that continued consideration of what it calls the "hostile, fallacious, and malicious" Goldstone document will bring upon the world the catastrophic events described in the Bible's Book of Joel, Chapter 4.

The Sanhedrin then explained by what authority it issues injunctions to the United Nations: "The International Court of the Sanhedrin operates by the power of the Bible, the only Holy Writ whose essence was handed over to mankind at Mt. Sinai [the Torah], and of the Prophets, sent to all nations of the world and universally held in respect by them. By virtue of this delegated authority, passed down from one generation to the next ever since the time of Moses our teacher, the master of all of prophets, and by virtue of the succession of authority in Jewish tradition, we appealed to you that you might not fail and thus fail the world, bringing upon it catastrophe."

[NewlyBorninChrist]

[Mttw633]

Does anyone know why we don't have Joel 4 in our bibles? It's quoted here:

"I will gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshafat; and I will enter into judgment with them there for My people and for My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and divided My land... And the children of Judah and the children of Jerusalem you have sold to the children of the Jevanim, in order to distance them from their border. Behold I will arouse them from the place where you sold them, and I will return your retribution upon your head. And I will sell your sons and daughters into the hands of the children of Judah... Announce this among the nations: Prepare war, arouse the mighty men... Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears... Gather and come, all you nations from around - and they shall gather; there the Lord shall break your mighty men... for their evil is great...

"And the Lord shall roar from Zion, and from Jerusalem He shall give forth His voice, and the heavens and earth shall quake, and the Lord is a shelter to His people and a stronghold for the children of Israel. And you shall know that I, the Lord your God, dwell in Zion, My holy mount, and Jerusalem shall be holy, and strangers shall no longer pass through there.... And Egypt shall become desolate, and Edom shall be a desert waste, because of the violence done to the children of Judah, because they shed innocent blood in their land. But Judah shall remain forever, and Jerusalem throughout all generations."

[Justasheep]

Does anyone know why we don't have Joel 4 in our bibles? It's quoted here:

This is also being discussed here. Joel 4 in the Hebrew bible is Joel 3 in ours (at least in my ESV)
http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=52614

[GodsStudent]

I would like to point out an unpopular truth that is reiterated again here in the posted Joel 4. This scripture says, in part, "and I will enter into judgment with them there for My people and for My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and divided My land..."

I know our hearts are set on the ENP1 as final fulfillment, but Israel's land has not been divided, yet. Nor, for this matter, are they dwelling safely in unwalled villages. Nor is there a temple. Nor are there sacrifices.

All of these things are "in the works," but I think it is important for us to be watching these things. FWIW.

[SwordofGideon]

I would like to point out an unpopular truth that is reiterated again here in the posted Joel 4. This scripture says, in part, "and I will enter into judgment with them there for My people and for My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and divided My land..."

I know our hearts are set on the ENP1 as final fulfillment, but Israel's land has not been divided, yet. Nor, for this matter, are they dwelling safely in unwalled villages. Nor is there a temple. Nor are there sacrifices.

All of these things are "in the works," but I think it is important for us to be watching these things. FWIW.

Agreed.

[MChat]

I would like to point out an unpopular truth that is reiterated again here in the posted Joel 4. This scripture says, in part, "and I will enter into judgment with them there for My people and for My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and divided My land..."

I know our hearts are set on the ENP1 as final fulfillment, but Israel's land has not been divided, yet. Nor, for this matter, are they dwelling safely in unwalled villages. Nor is there a temple. Nor are there sacrifices.

All of these things are "in the works," but I think it is important for us to be watching these things. FWIW.

Actually the land has already been divided. It was divided first after the Arab Revolt of 1936-1939; and that division was reafirmed by the United Nations after WWII. As for the unwalled villages, are not all "modern" towns unwalled? And people are living there in (relative) safety.

But you are correct on the Temple and sacrifices.

Personally, I don't believe the ENP1 is the fulfillment; I do believe it has a role to play. But there's still too many peices of the puzzle missing in order for the Antichrist (whomever that may be) to reveal himself by "sitting in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" within the next year.

[GodsStudent]

And there’s one other condition. Israel is described as living in safety in Ezek. 38:8 and the Jews are called a peaceful and unsuspecting people in Ezek. 38:11. The word translated safety in Ezek. 38:8 really implies what might be called a false sense of security, as if there’s no basis for the feeling of safety that exists in the minds of the people. One meaning of the word is careless. The safety is more a hope they have than a legitimate condition.

But getting back to the description of Israel living in safety in a land of unwalled villages, how will that prerequisite for Ezekiel’s battle be met, given the current conditions? The concept of unwalled villages means the residents don’t expect war. In Ezekiel’s day an unwalled village was vulnerable to attack, and only a people who believed they had no enemies would consider living in such an exposed fashion. When in its 59-year history has modern Israel ever felt this way? And who would describe them this way now, or even sees them in this condition in the near future?

http://gracethrufaith.com/ikvot/a-land- ... -villages/

To my knowledge, they are not living in unwalled villages, and do not dwell safely.

Also, as to the division of the land, I understand what you are saying, but it is a daily discussion, the division of Israel so that Palestine can have it's own nation. I sincerely do not believe that the scriptures are referring to the division of Israel post WWII. I sincerely think that these scriptures are speaking to this time, the end time, and the very real discussions of the division of Israel as relates hereto.

Thank you for your reply.

[dolfseal]

Ok, you guys might think I'm nuts but I do not think we need a third temple built. Everything in the new testement is spoken of in spiritual terms, this is what hides the meaning of things. When you have the Holy Spirit with you, you can then begin to see things more clearly.
Question 1- What does the Bible describe as the new temple since the advent of the Holy Spirit? Answer- Every "body" that allows the Holy Spirity in. Every Saint is a temple to God.
Question 2- What would be the "sacrafice" that is stopped when the AC steps onto the scene? Answer- each Christian gives himself as a sacrafice to God when he allows the Holy Spirit in. We know the AC causes, demands, requires, all to worship the image of the beast. You cant worship both God and an Idol, it's not possible. Thus, the AC puts an end to all Christian sacrafice to God.
Set times and Laws- the AC tries to change Gods laws and maybe the set time he is trying to change is the time of the end that is appointed (just thinking out loud).

[MChat]

Also, as to the division of the land, I understand what you are saying, but it is a daily discussion, the division of Israel so that Palestine can have it's own nation. I sincerely do not believe that the scriptures are referring to the division of Israel post WWII. I sincerely think that these scriptures are speaking to this time, the end time, and the very real discussions of the division of Israel as relates hereto.

Essentially the arguments surrounding Israel and Palestine today date back to those Pre WWII and Post WWII decisions to divide the land. Just like the WEU dates back to just after WWII. The rebirth of the nation of Israel set things in motion, but the rebirth of Israel isn't the only thing that got set into motion around the end of WWII.

After WWII ended, we saw:
- Rebirth of Israel.
- Apparently the end of Uti possidetis
- The rise of Communism.
- The rebirth of the Roman Empire.
- The rise of global Islamic Jihad.
- The rise of Humanism/Evolution.
- The rise of Governments (Gov't becoming more and more intrusive, the groundwork being laid for a Global Gov't, Gov't being portrayed as "the Provider" rather than God.)
- Significant technological advancement (new Weapons, and capabilities of the AC described by the Bible becoming possible via technology)
- The moral decay of Western (Christian) Civilization (A forerunner of the great apostasy?)

In retrospect, there were ALOT of things set into motion at the end of WWII which we are just now beginning to really see the fruits there-of.

[MChat]

Ok, you guys might think I'm nuts but I do not think we need a third temple built. Everything in the new testement is spoken of in spiritual terms, this is what hides the meaning of things. When you have the Holy Spirit with you, you can then begin to see things more clearly.
Question 1- What does the Bible describe as the new temple since the advent of the Holy Spirit? Answer- Every "body" that allows the Holy Spirity in. Every Saint is a temple to God.
Question 2- What would be the "sacrafice" that is stopped when the AC steps onto the scene? Answer- each Christian gives himself as a sacrafice to God when he allows the Holy Spirit in. We know the AC causes, demands, requires, all to worship the image of the beast. You cant worship both God and an Idol, it's not possible. Thus, the AC puts an end to all Christian sacrafice to God.
Set times and Laws- the AC tries to change Gods laws and maybe the set time he is trying to change is the time of the end that is appointed (just thinking out loud).

The AC will not be able to put an end to Christians being a "Living Sacrifice" unto God.

No, the 3rd Temple is not needed to worship God, but in order for the AC to "sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" there needs to be one. The AC cannot "sit" in Christians' bodies, and his spirit may not dwell there (where there is Light there darkness cannot dwell). I believe a 3rd Temple, rightly or wrongly constructed, will be built.

[GodsStudent]

OK...in discussing this temple matter, please keep in mind that I am asking questions as much as posting my understandings thusfar. I say that because I am a student and not a teacher in these areas. I have only been a serious student in scripture for a few years, and so I just want to be clear that I am giving it my best, but I am not the greatest at this.

Here's a question: I know Rev. 11: 1 says he was given a reed, as unto a rod....to measure with. This seems like a modern application of a measuring tape. A physical instrument to gather numerical data about its size.

Then, there are those right now that want to build the temple, exact in size and so forth as the last temple, and they want to put an altar in it for animal sacrifices. Those Jewish people, who are right now working on this, say that this temple will be an exact duplicate of the last, complete with handmade parts, and measuring exactly as the previous one was measured.

My question, therefore, is this. These people appear to be working from a blueprint. Where do they get the measurements from and the accurate description of the previous temple from?

Dolfseal, I am familar with the theories that motivated your comments that we do not need another temple to be built, bet, yet, I am far inclined that the interpretations should always be literal and not require parenthesis, conotating "as if's and as thoughs" as some of the spiritual applications always seem to come with. Please don't get me wrong, though, I want for us to talk about these things in brotherly love and sort through them. I appreciate your comments and frankly, anything that would cause the ENP1 to be the covenant suits me better than not, because I am past ready to get on with this horrible event and get to the good part! I just cant shake the nudge in my gut that says we have further to fall and harder to fall before the AC arrives. Either way, I am prepared and I do know its going to happen, and it must happen.

[dolfseal]

Ok, since Christ, God has no need for a third temple. His third temple is in Zion and he will bring it down when it is time. Could the AC(Satan) perhaps sit in Gods temple in Zion (Heaven) and proclaim to be God, thus causing the Angel Michael to cast him down to earth? Then we see the Christians and Jews be slaughtered because he knows his time is short? Gods Holy Mountain is not the temple mount at the present time because He does not dwell there any longer. Perhaps we are close to seeing Satan and his followers(angels) be cast down soon and the Jews are about to flee to the desert for a time, times, and half a time. Again, just thinking out loud.

[GodsStudent]

Fantastic question, dolfseal, but two things come to mind:
1) Satan is not sitting in heaven "shewing himself that he is God," to my knowledge. At present, he is sitting in heaven at the foot of God witnessing against all of us.


2 Thes. 2: 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Rev 7: 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

2) The second thing is that though the gentiles have accepted Christ is the Messiah, the Jews are still working under the old law, and that will be reconciled during this end time event. The majority of the end times events centers around the Jewish people, and at present, THEY need the temple building.....and the altar, because they are still under the old law.

Im thinking out loud here, too.....

[dolfseal]

The Jewish people are working under the old Law out of their ignorance to what Jesus proclaimed, not because God is still telling them to. God is not requiring them to build the temple to my knowledge (as limited as it is). God wants everyone to follow Christ.
I was not saying Satan is currently sitting on Gods throne, I was saying at the point he sits on Gods throne, he then gets ousted. I am going to read tonight and study this thought in more depth, I will let you know what I come up with.

[Mttw633]

Here's a question: I know Rev. 11: 1 says he was given a reed, as unto a rod....to measure with. This seems like a modern application of a measuring tape. A physical instrument to gather numerical data about its size.

Then, there are those right now that want to build the temple, exact in size and so forth as the last temple, and they want to put an altar in it for animal sacrifices. Those Jewish people, who are right now working on this, say that this temple will be an exact duplicate of the last, complete with handmade parts, and measuring exactly as the previous one was measured.

Hi Godstudent, I wanted to add this which I wrote down this last July, and I think this is the meaning of that portion of scripture:


Rev 11: I'm wondering why John is told to get a reed and measure the temple and people in it. *Alert*: I'm going down a road here you may not agree with, but I just got to thinking about something. The saying to go measure reminds me of Daniel 5 where it says, 'mene, mene, tekel, parsin' -weighed and measured, then judgement. Could it mean he was to measure the one's in the altar and temple area (those in fellowship w/ the Father) but not count the ones in the court of the gentiles (no fellowship). And then judgement/reward is rendered. Those inside were given power-the two witnesses (Is 43-Jacob and Israel/ Ez 37-Judah and Ephraim) Why else is this chapter starting off w/ a measuring of the temple and then immediately without any correlation begin talking about the 2 witnesses?
then I read a prophetic word along the same lines last month! A confirmation. Here it is:
Day of the Witness

With the advent of the Jewish New Year this week, I believe the Lord is saying that we are entering the season of His Witnesses. The pattern for this can be found in Revelation 11.

Nugget of Gold: God's Witnesses will be those who dwell in the sanctuary/tabernacle, whose hearts are completely His. These will be true worshipers. Those in the "outer court", who walk in the flesh and not in the Spirit, are excluded from this company.

The Lord will grant great authority to His Witnesses and they will both prophesy (proclaim and decree what He is saying) and perform great signs and wonders. This is because the Lord Himself will "bear witness to the word of His grace, granting that signs and wonders be done by their hands." (Acts14:3).

There will be a constant flow of fresh oil (the anointing) from the throne for this company of Witnesses, and the Lord will protect them from the power of evil. They will be clothed in humility and will not "love their lives even to death" (Rev.12:11).

The season we are entering will be a foreshadowing of the Great Tribulation. God has chosen and set apart beforehand those believers who will be Witnesses of all the things that He is doing in this hour (Acts 10:39-41).

Isa.43:10 - "'You are My witnesses', declares the Lord, 'And My servant whom I have chosen....'"

Isa.44:8 - "Do not tremble and do not be afraid. Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it? And you are My witnesses."
Denise Mears

[dolfseal]

Mttw633,
Now you are speaking my language. I think I agree with your understanding of the witnesses.

[MChat]

Ok, since Christ, God has no need for a third temple. His third temple is in Zion and he will bring it down when it is time. Could the AC(Satan) perhaps sit in Gods temple in Zion (Heaven) and proclaim to be God, thus causing the Angel Michael to cast him down to earth? Then we see the Christians and Jews be slaughtered because he knows his time is short? Gods Holy Mountain is not the temple mount at the present time because He does not dwell there any longer. Perhaps we are close to seeing Satan and his followers(angels) be cast down soon and the Jews are about to flee to the desert for a time, times, and half a time. Again, just thinking out loud.

First, in order for Satan to "sit" on God's throne in Heaven, he would have to remove God from it first. That's just never, ever going to happen. A man-made chair here on earth has a better chance of coming to life and hunting down and defeating it's maker than Satan does of defeating his Maker.

Second, the Abomination of Desolation (The AC sitting in the Temple of God in order show that he is God) is something that I believe the whole world will witness (via T.V. News/other media). Definitely it is something that Israel will see (which means it has to happen on earth, in Israel, hence most likely the 3rd Temple on the Temple Mount); and when it happens those believers in Israel better flee for the hills (Matthew 24:15-21)

[Mttw633]

Dolfseal, Praise God! He's awesome.

[GodsStudent]

I suppose it is fair to say that I just cannot see the things you are talking about Mttw663. The witnesses will be clothed in sackcloth, they have the ability to produce fire from their mouth and devour their enemies, they can shut heaven and stop rain, they can turn water to blood and smite the earth with plagues....this, and the scriptures go on to give more and more detail.

Rev 11: 3 And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Rev 11: 4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Rev 11: 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Rev 11: 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will

Rev 11: 7-8 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Rev 11: 9-10 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

[mguard]

I really liked what you wrote mttw663.

The Two houses are my best guess for the two witnesss too.

Perhaps only those under that kind of annointing and not loving thier lives unto death would be able to believe God enough to be obedient when He says to do the things they do.

[Adamantine]

I have been quite talkative recently and at risk of being annoying so I was going to try and stifle myself and not make any commentary for awhile. And yet while we wait to see who gets HRCFSP position then it remains the most interesting international game playing in town. In second place is probably the dollar/gold/? new world currency question closely followed by the idiocy of the current recent row of US presidents.

Anyway here are my
It is difficult to even imagine the second half of the seven year period described by some as the Great Tribulation. The book of Daniel seems to say it will come in like a flood..unexpected by most...appearing as though out of nowhere...and exceedingly fast as if from drought to inundation. It also it seems from Revelation that things shift from poorly understood worldly trials to a mix of otherworldly tribulations of eerie scariness with a mountain cast into the sea, prophets with fire from their mouths and the ability to smite the earth with drought etc. It seems as though spiritual forces and battle come much closer to the surface of world events than at any other time in world history. It may be this strange time of spiritual battle that oddly enough has so many "spiritual" commentators silent. The "spiritual days" were supposed to be all lived up and completed 2,000 years ago and they are uncomfortable imagining a new era. Better to keep it in the drawer locked away with the Nephilin and ark of the covenant.
The two prophets seem to speak with that old authority seen in the old testament rather than the tentative tip toeing throw the tulips of Gods plans that observers such as you and I must do. They speak boldly. The new Sanhedrin of recent years almost seems to be a harbinger of those days. Was there laughter in the halls of the UN yesterday?

Yesterday while reading of the last signature giving rise to what may with all reasonableness be regarded as the revised Roman Empire* and then immediately reading the words of the Sanhedrin speaking to a world body of Government of the judgments of the valley of Jehoshaphat from Joel I had the psychological impression of being a participant in the screening of a movie for the "Left behind Series". We live in interesting times and while we must live in the midst of whatever trials God sends our way we might as well enjoy the view. "If you are treed by a bear enjoy the view" seems apt.

*Surely some historian will write a short essay saying so. If not... it is because it would seem to verify scripture and odd ball theologians from the 19th century or even much earlier and of course no one would dare to do that (publicly.)

[dolfseal]

The two witnesses with fire coming out of their mouths- The word of God is fire to the ones who hear and don't take heed. Even Jesus is referred to as having a double edged sword for a tongue. It is not a literal sword but the word He proclaims will kill you if you dont take heed.
The two witnesses are the two olive trees- no, they are not literal olive trees or candle sticks. They represent the Holy Spirit (light) of the Earth, or Saints(It is quite possible they are the sealed 144K, this is why those in Heaven are asking how long will it be and they are told to wait until the remaining(Saints) are killed). They have the power to spread the word for 3.5 years. They are then killed and overpowered by Satan and lay in the street for 3 days. Maybe the resurrection of the dead happens at this point, half way through the trib. They rise at the calling of God and Heaven opens up at this point to receive the Saints of the TRIB. At this point, only non believers are left and the wrath is poured out.
I am leaning toward the last 7 years getting ready to begin. As I said before, Nov 29 will mark 62 years since the decree to establish Israel. Seven years of Tribulation, then the final year (which is the Jubilee year since Israel took Jerusalem) with Christ, or the 1000 years to us. Everything is lining up perfectly to begin the Trib. This would give 3.5 years to get the Temple built if it is to happen. If so, war should break out any time.

[emptyd]

I was struck by what seemed a profound realization (to me) but may be passe to you all. That is, there is a significant witness within all three, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam that believe that we are on the cusp of the end.

All of the noise that the various imams are making about the coming of the mahdi, and particularly the nut in charge of Iran saying he is "in communication" with the mahdi.

This pronouncement by the Sanhedrin is certainly authoritative and eschatological in nature.

Perhaps Christians are the most silent on this topic, at least in the halls of leadership, but many amongst the laity are outspoken.

This realization has really rocked my world today... They ALL say we're at the end. When in history have all three of these groups agreed on anything else?!?!

emptyd

[Mttw633]

Godstudent, I understand your not being able to get what I'm saying. It goes against what we've all been taught re a third temple in Rev 11. And dolfseal makes some good points about what the descriptions may actually be telling us. The sackloth part sounds like these witnesses see and understand the the condition of humanity and are grieved over it. They mourn and long for correction, just like Jeremiah. In Jer 15:

Jeremiah 15:16-21

16 When your words came, I ate them;
they were my joy and my heart's delight,
for I bear your name,
O LORD God Almighty.

17 I never sat in the company of revelers,
never made merry with them;
I sat alone because your hand was on me
and you had filled me with indignation.

18 Why is my pain unending
and my wound grievous and incurable?
Will you be to me like a deceptive brook,
like a spring that fails?

19 Therefore this is what the LORD says:
"If you repent, I will restore you
that you may serve me;
if you utter worthy, not worthless, words,
you will be my spokesman.
Let this people turn to you,
but you must not turn to them.

20 I will make you a wall to this people,
a fortified wall of bronze;
they will fight against you
but will not overcome you,
for I am with you
to rescue and save you,"
declares the LORD.

21 "I will save you from the hands of the wicked
and redeem you from the grasp of the cruel."

Jeremiah has a close relationship w/ God, and He finally is so distraut he asked God are you like a deceptive brook? The Lord sets him straight-repent, don't speak your words, but the words I put in your mouth-you will be my spokesman. A witness? Yes. Just like today. We are/will be a witness to this perverse generation. They don't like to hear what we have to say. Quit speaking about the Holy One of Israel.

[SwordofGideon]

I was struck by what seemed a profound realization (to me) but may be passe to you all. That is, there is a significant witness within all three, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam that believe that we are on the cusp of the end.

All of the noise that the various imams are making about the coming of the mahdi, and particularly the nut in charge of Iran saying he is "in communication" with the mahdi.

This pronouncement by the Sanhedrin is certainly authoritative and eschatological in nature.

Perhaps Christians are the most silent on this topic, at least in the halls of leadership, but many amongst the laity are outspoken.

This realization has really rocked my world today... They ALL say we're at the end. When in history have all three of these groups agreed on anything else?!?!

emptyd

Agreed. Even the secular world senses something is about to happen, even if they don't know what that something is. That feeling is expressed thru in all those disaster movies out there.

[dolfseal]

Not only are we seeing a bunch of disaster movies, we are seeing a bunch of alien, ufo stuff. Rev 12 says Satan is cast down with his angels at the point the Jews are sent to the desert for 3.5 years. If the trib is getting ready to kick off, we will see the seals opened, leading to the mid trib where Satan is cast down and takes power. The first 3.5 years will build his kingdom, then he will touch down and become king for a short time. Satan touching down might be like an alien encounter to those who are left and they follow his every command due to his signs and wonders.

[GodsStudent]

Mttw663: Thank you for your understanding the difficulty I have with what you ahve said here. My husband was just with me and I told him that I need to study this with my bible. At first sight, its so shocking, because it is more than contrary to what countless end time teachers have shared. I need to print this thread and read it again when I am still and able to really pray and read.

Its funny, but two days ago, as I drove down the road, I became distressed in my spirit and was repenting and praying about the who, where, when, how and why (s) of all that we know about this time. ...and so I asked the Lord to show me how it was I was to be able to witness. I have a unique situation as I am not in contact with a lot of people on a regular basis. My illness limits my mobility, and the physical strength (particularly endurance to walk) is limited, and very special. I try to make good with it when I am out and about, and show my love to some sometimes very angry people....and if able, I witness, a little or a lot, whatever the listener is able to bear....but, I know inside that my witness (and all of ours) is critical, especially now, because while we, here on FP, get very deep in our discussion, there are so many who haven't the very first clue...and I really want to be in touch with them.

Anyway, thank you so much, and thanks to all who were willing to discuss these things here and in other threads. It really hurts to get the line "some just wont have ears to hear or eyes to see." I don't think that's it, at least not for me. His eye is on the sparrow, and I know He watches over me. I just have so much going on, and I am newer than older to really studying the scriptures, and at the same time, I'm really trying hard to work on praying ceaselessly, repenting, loving others and to be the best mom and wife and daughter and friend and employee.....and in all of my spare time, I am really trying hard to reconcile what I have learned to what I am learning. Its all quite a lot; not only for me, but I know for many.

[Adamantine]

There are those who think the Antichrist is also not a physical unique one person but rather an influence etc. Both are correct but we may be entering the days of the emergence of the the physical man Antichrist and I think if so we will also see the physical two prophets. If we are closely watching.

[emptyd]

There are those who think the Antichrist is also not a physical unique one person but rather an influence etc. Both are correct but we may be entering the days of the emergence of the the physical man Antichrist and I think if so we will also see the physical two prophets. If we are closely watching.

Adamantine, if you were replying to me, I did not intend to imply I didn't believe in a specific particular human who is AC. I was only saying that all four horsemen of the apocalypse may be the same man, just different facets of his rule.

emptyd

[Looking4acity]

I would like to point out an unpopular truth that is reiterated again here in the posted Joel 4. This scripture says, in part, "and I will enter into judgment with them there for My people and for My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and divided My land..."

I know our hearts are set on the ENP1 as final fulfillment, but Israel's land has not been divided, yet. Nor, for this matter, are they dwelling safely in unwalled villages. Nor is there a temple. Nor are there sacrifices.

All of these things are "in the works," but I think it is important for us to be watching these things. FWIW.

The ENP works very well with these verses. There is no temple or sacrificing yet, but something could be up and running by Passover 2010.

Israel's land hasn't been divided yet, but could be soon. The way the verse is worded ("and divided my land") suggests to me that is was forced. The antichrist and cronies could force the issue before or after he stops the sacrifices. We are seeing evidence that the "international community" is tiring of the stalled peace progress. Perhaps that will be part of his "excuse" to surround Jerusalem and attack them.

Israel is not dwelling safely in unwalled villages yet, but will be when the remnant flees to the wilderness to be protected by God for 3 and 1/2 years. After living in peace and safety for over 3 years, I'd say they'd be unsuspecting. Wouldn't you?

We are not seeing the judgment of God upon those that divided the land because that happens towards the end of the 7 years, especially Gog-Magog and Armegeddon.

Makes perfect sense to me.

[Mttw633]

I would like to point out an unpopular truth that is reiterated again here in the posted Joel 4. This scripture says, in part, "and I will enter into judgment with them there for My people and for My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and divided My land..."

I know our hearts are set on the ENP1 as final fulfillment, but Israel's land has not been divided, yet. Nor, for this matter, are they dwelling safely in unwalled villages. Nor is there a temple. Nor are there sacrifices.

All of these things are "in the works," but I think it is important for us to be watching these things. FWIW.

The ENP works very well with these verses. There is no temple or sacrificing yet, but something could be up and running by Passover 2010.

Israel's land hasn't been divided yet, but could be soon. The way the verse is worded ("and divided my land") suggests to me that is was forced. The antichrist and cronies could force the issue before or after he stops the sacrifices. We are seeing evidence that the "international community" is tiring of the stalled peace progress. Perhaps that will be part of his "excuse" to surround Jerusalem and attack them.

Israel is not dwelling safely in unwalled villages yet, but will be when the remnant flees to the wilderness to be protected by God for 3 and 1/2 years. After living in peace and safety for over 3 years, I'd say they'd be unsuspecting. Wouldn't you?

We are not seeing the judgment of God upon those that divided the land because that happens towards the end of the 7 years, especially Gog-Magog and Armegeddon.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Wasn't Israel divided when they gave up Gaza? And they're still working on dividing the land even further. Jerusalem is the nail in the coffin; the harbinger of destruction.

[Looking4acity]

No, it isn't divided - yet.

Israel is only missing the tiny part of Gaza so far, which is what? - 4 to 8 miles wide and 25 miles long. Now when the West Bank is added to make up a Palestinian State, then, it could be considered divided. Looking at a map that shows Gaza and the West Bank virtually divides Israel in HALF.

Also of interest is how the Judea is in the West Bank. Those in Judea are told to flee when the sacrifices are stopped. It seems very likely that the settlers in the West Bank will be chased out/attacked or something when the GT begins.