Unreported News, Commentary, Resources and Discussion of Bible Prophecy
plalgum wrote:Paul's second letter to the Thessalonians was to reassure them that they had not missed the day of the Lord and the Rapture.They were being persecuted so they assumed that they were in the Tribulation,so why were they so upset that they sent a runner to find Paul and ask him why?If Paul had taught a post trib view,they would have immediately seen through the letter,and said well so what! the Lords coming back in seven years then.
If Paul had taught a pre Wrath view,they would have been wondering to themselves "Is this really God at his angriest"?
I think that Paul had taught them a pre Trib view,and when the false letter arrived saying that the gathering up had come and gone, and they,now going through persecution,had missed it,must have caused them great distress,as it was designed to do.
watching wrote:Sounds logical to me too.
Come to think of it, would an expectant mother be upset if she had just been told that she has gone into labor if she already understood that she would have to go through it in order to give birth?
I'm not saying that this proves the pre-trib theory, but it is something to think about.
plalgum wrote:Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his son from heaven,whom he raised from the dead,even Jesus which delivered us FROM the wrath to come.
The word FROM in this context is APO in Greek, Paul's use of this word is very specific because it means we are removed from the place, the time,and anything to do with the wrath of God.Mark S, i am sure will bear me out that even though there are other words in Greek that mean FROM,APO in this use is a dimensional word.
Hope you catch this post Mark S,looking to see what you think.
YoungLion wrote:Yeah... APO.... Not to start a fight, but some say that this is what is meant by the 'falling away' that must come first. Some believe that our singular interpretation of APOstasy is not all it can mean. To classical Greek speakers, the word may have also meant removal or separation. Some pointed to the predicted 'falling away' as code for the rapture... not necessarily the falling away from the Faith that we interpret from that word... though I'm sure that will happen too. Maybe this is what you guys are alluding to?
watching wrote:If you ask me, this is getting out of hand. The word "apo" in Greek is simply a preposition denoting separation as Mark s. has already stated. There is nothing magical about it. It is about as common and has as much depth of meaning and versatility as the word "from" does in English and is used pretty much in the same way. To put it bluntly, I would think it has about as much secret meaning as the word "it" does.
Mark s., I had already typed this before I saw your post, just as I was about to hit submit, but if I have said anything wrong about the word "apo", please correct me.
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: feminine of the same as G647
1) divorce, repudiation
2) a bill of divorce
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of G868
1) to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to remove
1a) to excite to revolt
2) to stand off, to stand aloof
2a) to go away, to depart from anyone
2b) to desert, withdraw from one
2c) to fall away, become faithless
2d) to shun, flee from
2e) to cease to vex one
2f) to withdraw one’s self from, to fall away
2g) to keep one’s self from, absent one’s self from
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G575 and G2476
1) of separation
1a) of local separation, after verbs of motion from a place, i.e. of departing, of fleeing, ...
1b) of separation of a part from the whole
1b1) where of a whole some part is taken
1c) of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed
1d) of a state of separation, that is of distance
1d1) physical, of distance of place
1d2) temporal, of distance of time
2) of origin
2a) of the place whence anything is, comes, befalls, is taken
2b) of origin of a cause
Part of Speech: preposition
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary particle
1) to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set
1a) to bid to stand by, [set up]
1a1) in the presence of others, in the midst, before judges, before members of the Sanhedrin
1a2) to place
1b) to make firm, fix establish
1b1) to cause a person or a thing to keep his or its place
1b2) to stand, be kept intact (of family, a kingdom), to escape in safety
1b3) to establish a thing, cause it to stand
1b3a) to uphold or sustain the authority or force of anything
1c) to set or place in a balance
1c1) to weigh: money to one (because in very early times before the introduction of coinage, the metals used to be weighed)
2) to stand
2a) to stand by or near
2a1) to stop, stand still, to stand immovable, stand firm
2a1a) of the foundation of a building
2b) to stand
2b1) continue safe and sound, stand unharmed, to stand ready or prepared
2b2) to be of a steadfast mind
2b3) of quality, one who does not hesitate, does not waiver
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a prolonged form of a primary stao (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses)
mark s wrote:Apostasia and apostasion are the same word in different forms, the formal being feminine, the latter neuter (genderless).
mark s wrote:BTW, one thing to keep in mind is that Koine Greek, from the New Testament, is not the same language as modern Greek. Koine Greek is considered a 'dead language', and while there are many similarities between the two languages, sometimes even the same spelling has a completely different meaning.
English is like that, "let", for instance, used to mean "prevent", now it means to "allow".
We should avoid defining Koine Greek according to modern Greek. We should also avoid defining koine Greek by it's English derivatives.
mark s wrote:Apostasia and apostasion are the noun form of aphistemi, the verb.
Resurrection Torchlight wrote:personally I think there's a lot more to be said about the departure as in "rapture of the church" rather than what the meaning of the word "Apostasy" is- whether is means one or the other, there's more in the passage that points to the rapture.
Matthew 25:13 (King James Version)
13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Mark 13:32-37 (King James Version)
32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
2 Thessalonians 2 (King James Version)
2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be ****** who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
So, obviously, it does not make sense for them to be upset.1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
Matthew 24:4-5 (King James Version)
4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:24-27 (King James Version)
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
"That day shall not come" was added in. Whether that was done on purpose or not, I don't know. But I do believe it was written exactly the way God wanted it to be.2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (Young's Literal Translation)
3let not any one deceive you in any manner, because -- if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed -- the son of the destruction,
4who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the sanctuary of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God -- [the day doth not come].
And on that note, I want to apologize if I have said anything else that might have offended in any of my posts.# Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
watching wrote: . . . there were various forms and combinations of "apo" and "stao" which were used to express certain actions such as "to withdraw" or "to distance" in addition to "to depart" (and all of their different tenses) some of which have now been replaced by other words. And you did prove that with the examples you cited. And technically, based on the root forms and their meanings, the word "apostasia" could have had more than one meaning which is not uncommon, but the only problem I have is that I haven't seen any uses in writing from the ancient texts that would prove that beyond a reasonable doubt, but that doesn't dismiss the possibility.
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