Psalm 119: Time Frame for the End of Days!

[habag]

Shalom,

In one of the info areas it states that some believed that 'the 70th Week may have begun in Jan 1, 2007.' Is this not date setting? I mean, if you know when the 70th begins, and you believe the Church will be here, then you know 7 years later Christ returns. But if this 2007 date is based on a pretrib rapture view, then no problem. Only but, why is pretrib assumed to be true, and others wrong? I mean also, could Christ have come 'at any moment' Before 1948? Let us reason together!

Unless the Moderators tell me otherwise, I would like to continue with this post, in a few days. It has been given us to know the times, to see and understand the signs, and be children of the light. The Lord has given us light in Psalm 119 concerning the end of days. Besides, I am setting a date, a season, for the beginning of the 70th week. I do not pretend to know the 'day or hour' the Lord will come. And too, I only guessat the year, or season. Why? Because the Lord said, 'Unless those days had not be shortened no flesh would be saved.'

I received this by revelation, as God opened the Scripture to me through a simple event. Several years back the Lord gave me Psalm 119:49-50 as a sourse of encouragement - 'Remember the word to your servant in which you have cause me to hope; this is my comfort in my affiction, that your word has revived me.' And then about three years ago as I was re-reading these verses, I saw the it looked like my birthday - 119:49 - 1949. And I thought, 'How Cool!' And suddenly the Lord began to open up the Word to me concerning the time frame. And before I close, let me tell one more thing. If you double the 176 verses you get the least amount of time for a lunar year. And of course, the Lord used the lunar month. This is an indication the psalm is about 'time'.

So I await the ruling. If you say 'no', its ok. I posted this on Google Groups 3 years ago. But I cannot fine the full text anymore, only references. So I can't refer you there. But this will intrigue you!

habag

This is an early morning -its 5:49- update. The Lord would not allow me to sleep. So I wrote some on 119. I cannot find my original copy, so this is a re-write. SO I wrote a short peice which has only introductory stuff, and no controversy. But I went to my favorite prayer place at 4:45. Its near a cemetary. I sit on a small hill in the desert. But its was TOO beautiful! I could see the nearly new moon, its crest and the outline of it all. And there was Venus next. Then more west was Jupiter. And the Sun was just highlighting the very barren mountians of this Edom wilderness. It was wonderful!

But I begin by making a bold statement. The Lord has written me into His Psalm! Is the psalm about me? Hardly! But some years of my life are expressed there. And He revealed this to me that I might reveal Him and His wonderful works in Psalm 119, and its revelation of the time frame for the end of days. Because the conclusion of the matter is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. For let me assure you there is a connection between 119 and the Book of Revelation.

Though I know John the Revelator did not write chapters in the Book, there are natural divisions which, by God's design, were expressed as 22 chapters. And why is this signficant? Because there are 22 letters in the Hebrew Aleph-Bet. And just as each letter corresponds to a chapter and events there, so 22 letters are important to 119 and its time frame.

119 is an acrostic psalm. It has 22 sections. Each section is based on a letter. The first section, Aleph, has each first word of each verse beginning with an Aleph. So 8 verses, with a word beginning with an Aleph. Why 8? I thought 7 was the number of perfection. Two reasons. You can't get a lunar year with 7 verses. And second, 8 is the number of new beginnings, and so introduces, or leads, into the next section. And perhaps another reason. There were 8 'watches' in one 24 hour day.

Anyway! That is all I have re-written. So I will wait longer to hear from the Mod Squad. Bless the Lord, O my soul; for He is great and greatly to be praised! Have a good 21st the Summer Soltice, and Father's Day.

habag

[lightshine]

okay- I'm interested- what did you understand?

About birthdays in the Bible- I did this just for fun:
My grandsons name is Daniel, born on 9.23.91
his birthday on the Hebrew calendar is 15 Tishrei- the first day of Feast of Tabernacles, belived by some to be the birthday of our Lord Jesus.
Daniel means 'judged by God'
Daniel 9:23- ".....I have come to tell you you are highly esteemed..."
September birthstone- sapphire
stones on the Ephod, if they are in order of birth: Dan, fifth son of Jacob- stone on Ephod : sapphire

my grandsons first words were "Bless you". His first full sentence (age 2-3) 'why don't you just pray to God?'
17 years old now, strong in faith, with a 'heart and soul of a warrior" (quote from his history teacher)

Jamie

[NewlyBorninChrist]

I'm interested Habag. What do you have to say about the times and the season?

YBIC

Rob

[habag]

Greetings to the both of you and God will bless you for your interest, as He will many others that I know are interested, for God has promised it! Amen!

And since the MS has not protested I take this as approval. I am having to re-write this as I have misplaced the original. So the intro is different, seeing as how it has been newly introduced. But what is in common with both is the inssitence that I am not setting a 'day or an hour', but a seasons. And has He not givens us stars and planets, moons and more for signs and seasons in thephysical? Well, they also have a spiritual application as Scripture clearly reveals. And alnog this line, and it being the 21st, Summer Soltice, do you think it an accident that it is '21'? No, you do not, for I have not revealed the relavance. Or that the Winter Sol. is on the 22nd? These relate, as I will show later, to the letters of the Hebrew Aleph-Bet.

So, I am not setting a day or an hour. And having said that make sure your bags are packed on a Tuesday in 2021, high noon.......Just kiddin!

I am proceeding in the re-write. But I have other things going. But all things are in God's perfect timing. So wait upon the Lord!

God works in us to will and to do, we just agree with Him and see wonders!

habag

[habag]

Shalom! Welcome to another segment.

'Cry out to Me and I will answer you, and bring to light great and hidden things which you understand not.' Jer. 33:3. God has worked this fervent desire in my heart from an early age. And then, at the appointed age, He revealed to me that He has written me into His Psalm.

'Zayin', or 'Zan', is the 7th Hebrew letter of the Aleph-Bet. Ancient Hebrew was based on pitographs. Zan had the image of a 'mattock'. And its meaning was 'to cut, plow, nourish, weapon.' So I play different roles. I now play the role of the nourisher. And He has given me to feed His people on knowledge of great and hidden things revealed.

So Zayin is mine! And He revealed this to me when He gave me Psalm 119:49-50 as my word. 49 is 7x7. There are 7 letters in my first and last names. And those two verses each have 7 words. And Zan is the 7th section of Psalm 119, which begins with '49'.

Also, 49 was 7 sabbaths of years, which, adding one more year, resulted in a Jubilee. And in this 50th year everyone was to return to his own property, or inheritance. Further, on the Jubilee noone was to sow or reap, but was to 'eat its crops out of the field.' Lev. 25:12. I will nourish you!

I could tell you many examples of 7's in my life. But I will end this whole 'Look at Me' section with this story. In 1968, while driving my 1957 Triumph down Hwy. 41 from work after school, eating an ice cream, looked dwon, thinking I had dropped some. As I looked up I had apparently pull on the stearing wheel and was headed for the end of a concrete bridge. I struck it and totaled my car.

When I moved back to Georgia from Arkansas in 2003, I was riding my bike one day down that same road. As I passed the spot I had struck on the bridge, there, engraved was the year of the bridge's construction....Yes....1949! My birth year.

Anyway! I tell you all this personal stuff because, as you will see in an upcoming segment, it is important in fixing a critical point in the time frame.

Wonderus are Your ways, O Lord!

habag

[habag]

Good MOrning

Its 5:25am here in Israel. This is not the next segment; that will be later today. This is a 'teaser' to keep your interest, because I know some of this could be boring. But groundwork must be laid.

'Ayin', is the 7th letter from the end of the Hebrew Aleph-Bet, and the 16th letter. It means 'to see, or behold.' It opens the 70th Week. Guess what its number value is: 70 - as in 70th week! See, the last 7 letter of the Aleph-Bet represent the 7 year Trib. And the last letter 'Tav', means a cross, covenant, sign, to seal.' And this is the verse, verse 120 just before the trib opens, 'My flesh trembles for fear of you, and I am afraid of your judgments.' !!!!!

habag

[NewlyBorninChrist]

Interesting please continue...

YBIC
Rob

[habag]

Shalom!

Sorry, been tied up for a few days. But, now for the next seg. This segment is optional reading, for the most part. It does show something of the critical point in the time frame. BUt for the most part it is somewhat personal and biographical, that is, in terms of what brought me to Israel. Still, if you read it you will gain some insight, hopefully, into the end of days. Let me tell you, I think most of you believe we are at that cirtical time in history. This whole process here is to encourage you in your faith and knowledge of how wonderfully intricate the Word of God is. For example. As I have said, I know there were not numbered verses when John wrote. But notice something interesting from the Book of Revelation. 11:19, and 19:11, speak of the same event. 'And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple....' 11:19....'And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a whitehorse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and true, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.' 19:11.
It is clear from this there is a connection between the Ark and Christ. Did not the Jews take the Ark before them into war? ANd I am sure there is so much more. But the opening of Heaven brings with it a 'sign', the sign of the Son of Man. In the Hebrew, the last letter of the Aleph-Bet is 'Tav'. And its literal meaning is 'sign, cross.' And its symbolic meaning is, 'covenant, to seal.' How cool is this? And this occurs in chapter 22, the last chapter, and the last letter. " I am Alpha and Omega.' But there are other connections between Psalm 119, the Hebrew Aleph-Bet, and the chapters of Revelation. Aleph, for example, along with the idea of Him being the Alpha, is the 'beginning' of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Amen!

Why 48 and 49 tied together? What do I mean? 49 follows 48, except in this sentence! Now that I have wowed you with my math and language skills, I will explain further.

Many Bilbe prophecy teachers teach that the end of days is directly tied to the re-birth of Israel as a nation. And they point to the sayings of Jesus about the sprouting of the tree. And I agree with this. But I have much more to say. And I do so because 49 follows 48.

I was born the year following present day Israel's birth. I was conceived in March, 1949, and born in 4 Dec. 1949. Israel, the present Zionist State, was conceived in a formal sence, the last years of the 1800's. But the birth date is the most important. More on this later.

IN eternityGod tied my destiny to the land of Israel. And after my birth in time and space, He put a burden on my heart for this land. This came early in my life.

In 1988 God gave me a word, 'Search for the lost sheep of the house of Israel; gather the scattered seed of Jacob.' Then for 20 odd years I struggled to see the fruit of this. But all my efforts seemed frustrated. I experienced so much rejection that I often grew discouraged, even to the point of saying, 'No More! I want this word no more!' But I would always come back to it.

Finally, God gave me the word from Psalm 119:49-50. 'Remember the word to you servant in which you have caused me to hope. This is my comfort in my affliction, that your word has revived me.' This so perfectly expressed my struggled.

In 2007 everything changed. Except for one stroy, I will not go to details. But everything came to a conclusion, an end. And I stood wondering what do I do now.

During this time a good friend called me and told me my cousin was having a party and wanted me to come. I was not interested. But he insisted. And as we sat talking at the party, he found a bussiness card in his pocket, and said, 'I just ran into Wilma before I picked you up. She is in Israel teaching school.' I took the card, saying I wanted to contact her. We met. She said they need teachers. I said I will go. But after contacting the school we found they had filled the last position. Then 2 days later the school called me and said someone had dropped out, do I still want to come? Duh! And within one month I was standing in Israel. This was 2007, and I was 57. Notice those sevens!

As I said before, Zayin is mine! Its the 7th letter, and comes right after Vav. Vav's last verse is 119:48. 1948 saw the re-birth of Israel. The literal meaning of Vav is 'nail'. Its symbolic meaning is 'and, add, secure, hook.' Israel was 'added' to the list of nations in 1948.

But speaking of Revelation and the Hebrew Aleph-Bet, look at chapter 4 (I will only give a few examples). There it speaks of a 'door in heaven opened'. The 4th Hebrew letter is Dalet. Its literal meaning is a door. Its symbolic meaning is to 'enter into'. And so John did.

Rev. 8 concerns the midpoint of the trib, when the 7 Trumpets begin. Its Hebrew letter is Heth. The literal meaning is 'fence, hedge, chamber. Its symbolic meaning is 'to separate, to half, divide'.

Chapter 11 concerns the beast rising from the sea. The Hebrew letter is Mem. Its leteral meaning is water. Its symbolic meaning is 'massive, overpower, chaos.'

Chapter 14 concerns the 144000. Its Hebrew is Nun. The leteral is 'fish'. The symbolic is 'life, seed, heir.' But enough for now. We already discussed chapter 22. And so I say:

Come Lord Jesus! Amen!

habag

[habag]

Shalom!

This section is SO important, and is mostly, except the last seg, is what you have waited for. SO! Listen well with prayer, as there will be some things which will challenge you.

If those Bible prophecy teachers I mentioned before agree on the start of the end as 1948, they then lose their way, lose track of time. For some have taught that within a generation we will see the see. But they defined a generation as 40 years. So when 40 years came and went, an adjustment was made. Perhaps a generation was 70 years, and with strength 80, or an undetermined time. Besides, if they defined a generation exactly they might be guilty of date setting, God forbid!

I remain unafraid! No, I do not set a date for His return, but a do set a season. And a season has fexibility. And the season is found in Isa. 23:15, 'Now in that day Tyre will be forgotten, as the days of one king.' But what does this mean. Most kings in Israel ruled 'about' forty years. So does it include until they became king? It is unimportant here, for the king which is to come was a king from birth.

The Wicked ONe is will be manifest to all soon. How do I know? He was conceived in Jan. 49, and born Oct. 49. And his time is at hand, How do I know? God told me!

When I first came to Eilat I went through a terrible demonic assault. And after 3 days of little or no sleep, on the third night I began crying out to God as visions ran through my head unchecked. Then around 5 am it suddenly stopped. And in the quiet the words of God began to come to me. Such attacks happen when God is about to move mightly.

It was revealed that the War in Heaven was fought in 1948. At the impending creation of Israel Satan roamed the earth in a rage. He then ascended to heaven to challenge God, Isa. 14. Michael met him, fought with him and cast him and his angels to the earth, Rev. 12.

Bear with me here. I know some are uneasy. BUt receive this or not. BUt hold on to the 70 years, and I will establish many things.

Israel was re-born as a nation in May 1948. This came after '7 sabbaths of years', beginning around 1897 and the First Zionist Congress. Israel became a state about the 50th year. This was Israel's first jubilee, the 'return to each one's property, Lev. 25.

Each section of 119, beginning with Aleph, is an 8 year period. And Aleph in its pictograph meaning, was the 'ox', the beginning of his strength. Each section thereafter also has meaning, but we need not establish it here.

1948 was Israel's first jubilee, the Return was proclaimed. The second jubilee came in 1998, 50 years later. This is the critical year! And it is here Zayin and I come into play.

Remember that my birthday is at the end of the year, Dec 4. So its as if my birthday acts as an 8th year, a transition from an old to a new, a new beginning. So 1999 is represented by verse 49. But it contains both 1999 and 2000. Then 49 = 51 years of age; 50 = 52; ect to verse 56.

Now things change. 'Heth', the 8th letter, represents a new beginning in the way we establish the time frame. For each letter here after represent but a single year. And we are now in the year Teth, 2009, or 5769.

Each of the following years holds something very special for me personnaly, and for the people of God as a whole. But there is no need to go into this here.

The last 7 letters, beginning with Ayin, are the 7 years of the 70th week, the end of days. This will be taken up in the finalk segment.

But I leave you with something from Dan. 9:20-27. There we learn of the 70 weeks of years. We understand that there are 69 weeks from the decree to build Jerusalem till Messiah.

(This is an interlude. Think of the 70 weeks as 70 years. The 'decree to rebuild' came through the UN in 1948. The 69 weeks runs till the 70th week, which begins in the season of 2015-2016.)

At the 69th week and the death and resurrection of Messiah, God fulfilled His prophecy and promise to Abraham, and the Church is founded. It is at this point the physical seed of Abraham becomes through faith in Messiah the spiritual seed.

Here is a mystery. But I will only touch on it here. Israel's redemption, the Remnant that is, is accomplished in two time frames. And this is protrayed and prophecied in the two houses of Jacob.

The first part of the remnant, of 'all Israel', is redeemed through those called-out (church) of Judah. But then after Gentiles came into the Body the full number in Judah was reached, and Jews faded from the Church for some 1900 years.

But the 2nd part of the redeemption is the 'rest of' (there is ONE remnant), 'all Israel', the house of Israel. And this part is greater in number than was that of Judah.

God is again visiting the Jews and giving them, through the witness of the 'Cyrus Church', eyes to see, ears to hear, and a heart to know - and believe- that Jesus is their Messiah. He removes the stumbling stone. The Church 'clears the way', Isa 56.

O' Father! Blessed are you! I am so filed with His Spirit as I type this. I weep! The beauty and complexity overwhelms me. All His works are wonderful and marvelous in my eyes!

I do hope you are seeing this. Its my prayer! I want to encourage you in your faith and testify that the kingdom of God is at hand! SO begin to divest yourselves from this world. If you have two coats, give one away! Invest in the soon coming Kingdom of God!

habag

[plalgum]

Hi Michael,
This is Laz,Michael do you see your self as the stronger part of Gods people,Man child?

[habag]

Shalom! Shalom!

This is the last segment. Why the last? Almost all things come to a conclusion. The 70 weeks become 70 years, which become 7 years, which become 7 days, which become one day, the Day of the Lord! The End of Days!

Even so. Come Lord Jesus! Amen and Amen! 'And the 7th angel sounded...the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.' Rev.11:15.

Yes, the 8th day is coming, that new beginning and the Kingdom of God on earth. But before we get there we must go through 7 tough years. And by 'we', I means the people of God, His Church. So prepare yourselves. You have about 7 'fat' years to wait.

And one way you can prepare is to be children of the light that, that day not overtake you as a thief. Watch therefore! Even if you do notreceive what I am saying, remember it, that when certain things come to pass, you will beleive.

So what is the next great thing in the prophetic calendar? Perhaps the re-building of the temple by AC. Perhaps Damascus destroyed by Israel. No, the next thing is the break-up of the 10 Toes, Dan2. For this kingdom will not endure, as iron and clay do not mix. So this present world order must change.

We live in the days of the 10 toes, partly stronge and united, and partly brittle and weak. The powers that be will be shaken, and a new order rise. Then and only then look for the 70th Week. And the sign of that time is the AC beginning construction on the temple.

As I stated before, the last 7 letters represent the 7 years of the 70th Week. So this begins with verse 121, and the letter Ayin. Ayin's literal meaning is 'eye'. Its symbolic meaning is, 'look, behold, konw, experience.'

The first 5 chapters of the Book of Revelation are prologue. The actual 70th Week begins with chapter 6. And what is the phrase which is used multiple times here? 'Come and see'. And multiple times John says, 'And I saw...'.

Here is a brief outline of the events of the 7 years: AC comes and makes the covenant to re-build the temple; the 7 Seals; the 144000; 7th Seal, the quiet before the storm. This is the first half.

In the second half we have: the 7 Trumpets and Bowls; AC in the temple; the image and mark of the beast; 100 kings given power; the Woman flees into the Wilderness of Sinai; armies gathered ofr battle; Great Harlet judged; return of Christ and the first resurrection and translation of the living saints; Armageddon.

The last 7 letters only refer to some of these events. And there is no hard and fast adherence to 'time' because that is not the point here.

Pe, the 17th letter, has the literal meaning of 'mouth'. Its symbolic is, to speak, open, word.' This refers to the testimony of the Two Witnesses.

Tzadi is next. Its literal is, fish-hook.' Its symbolic is, harvest, desire'. This word is also the smae as for 'righteous', and so refers here to the righteous 144000.

Kof follows next. Its literal is, 'back of the head'. Its symbolic is behind, last least'. This refers to the 2nd Beast, the False Prophet.

Resh comes next. Its literal is, 'head'. Its symbolic is, person, head, hightest.' This refers to the AC lifteing his head, revealing himself in the temple.

Shin is letter 21. Its literal is, 'teeth'. Its symbolic is, consume, destroy.' This refers to several things. It refers to AC trying to destroy the Woman (144000). It refers to him killing all who refuse his mark. And it refers to the Battle of Armageddon.

Tav is the last letter, number 22. Its literal is 'sign, cross.' Its symbolic is, 'covenant, to seal'. This refers to the revelation of Jesus Christ as heaven is opened.

It is 49 and 50. For He will, 'Remember the word to His servant; He will comfort by His Word, and revive us in resurrection and translation!

Does this mean His coming is in 2022? Yes and no. He comes at the transition of the two. 'For unless those days were shortened no flesh would be saved.'

Did you know Psalm 149 and 150 also play into this. 149 is the Battle of Armageddon and the return. And 150 is the Jubilee of Christ, the 1000 year kingdom when all 'return each to his own posession'.

Blessed is the one who holds this testimony!

habag http://www.habagministry.com


Ps Laz, I am not sure what you mean. I do not have a 'complex'. But I do have a promise from God that He will have me where I need to be, when I need to be there. And when that time comes, I will leave the Wilderness of Edom and go up to Jerusalem.

It is God who will define who I am. I got a present in December, 08. The conjunction of Venus, Jupiter, and the Moon occurred on my birthday. But then, it happened on a lot of peope's birthday.

[plalgum]

Hi Michael, Rev 12:11
11They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.

This is what i meant by the stronger part of Gods people,the manchild overcoming satan as part of Gods judgment on him.

[habag]

Hi Laz,

You must be careful in Rev 12. There are two events spoken of here concerning the 'Woman' and the Dragon. And they are separated in time.

The first case involves the birth of Christ through the Woman, his Jewish mother, Mary. And through the agengy of Herod (atype of AC), Satan seeks to destroy the child.

THe second case is at the 70th Week. Here the Woman is the 144000 which flee into the wilderness of Sinai (not Petra) where God provides for them. So if you want to equate the 144000 with the Manchild in that they are both of the Woman, maybe you can do that. But you must see the difference also.

That time in history, the end of days, will indeed call on the people of God to be strong till the end. For they will suffer many things. I mean, those left behind in Jerusalem will have the hardest time of all, for they will be persecuted by AC because they hold to their faith and refuse his mark.

And this is part of the reason this whole post has been written, to encourage and strengthen God's people. For the unfolding of God's wonderful word blesses His people. It is manna from heaven, and water from a rock in a dry and forbidding land. This will cause some to run to Him. Others however, will fall away, because in the dryness their root does not go deep. The plants here in Eilat survive because their root system is almost as big as their folage, and those roots shoot deep into the earth. But to mix metaphors, the people of God do not look down into the earth for their strength, but up into heaven from where all blessing flow.

Yesterday I went to a place near the Egyptian border of Taba called Princess Beach. Its a good place to dive or snorkle. The coral and the fish there are so beautiful in size, shaple and colors. And the sun sparkles through the blue-green water in lovely patterns. And as I swam with the fishes I was overwhelmed by the astounding beautiy and complexity of it all. It displayed and protrayed the wonders and glory of our God.

But the time is coming right soon when this order will be affected in a horrible way. God's judgement is coming! He has waited long enough. The time is at hand. So enjoy all the Lord gives you this day. And work all the more for Him, for the night is going to grow darker. And because of lawlessness the love of many will grow cold. BUt God will strengthen the hands of the feeble. He will not allow His own to be utterly destroyed. SO look with confidence to the future and fear not, for He is with us -Immanuel!

habag

[habag]

Shalom,

I hope all this work I put into giving you this info was worth it to someone. I hope it blessed someone and gave them insight into the end of days.

God wants His people to be informed. He does nothing unless He reveals it to His servants, the prophets. And His prophets feed the sheep with knowledge.

habag

[NewlyBorninChrist]

Yes it was thanks Habag.

YBIC
Rob

[habag]

Hi,

No, thank you. I needed that!

habag

[plalgum]

HI Michael,to pick up on an old discussion about Ezekiels battle,this is what Jack Kelly says on his Gracethrufaith website.I agree with him.

A. For me the key that unlocked the timing of Ezekiel’s battle was Ezek 39:22. “From that day forward the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God.”

Beginning with the Lord’s supernatural victory over their enemies, Israel will be drawn back into their covenant relationship with Him. Only then will they want and even demand a Temple. It’s the treaty that permits Temple construction that kicks off Daniel’s 70th week. Ezekiel’s Battle therefore has to precede Daniel’s 70th week and the Great Tribulation it contains.

[phobos]

This has been an interesting thread. I have been wondering about the time frame many people on this board describe. But, I would like to say it is very interesting seeing how much knowing Hebrew has opened the door for you. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the timing issue. And the idea that we still might have seven "fat" years left is somewhat comforting but it is also discomforting at the same time. I have seen God's hand at work in my life for a while. In particular, I have recently met a person who believes in God but not Christ. I believe God sent this person to my town and in my path directly so that God can influence him directly, using me as a vessel. It is nice to know that I may still have seven years to help this person reach Truth, but it is discomforting because I believe that the tribulation time may well be the one of the only things that might get through to him.

[nonymouse]

Habag wrote:

We live in the days of the 10 toes, partly stronge and united, and partly brittle and weak. The powers that be will be shaken, and a new order rise. Then and only then look for the 70th Week.

According to Daniel, Chapter 2, verses 34, 44 and 45, it is the rock (Christ) who will strike the ten clay and iron toes of Nebachadnezzar's statue to destroy it, after which His kingdom will be established (i.e., according to Scripture, the only "new order" that will arise after the ten toes will be Christ's kingdom).

[habag]

Hi,

Daniel 2 only give the general outline of the progress of histroy. BUt other chapters add more detail. We must put things together to have a more complete understanding.

habag

[nonymouse]

Am of the understanding that the empires represented by Nebachadnezzar's dream statue are the empires that have exercised control over Israel, throughout history. As such, the military faction of the EU, the 10-nation (full members) Western European Union (WEU), might make great sense as fulfillment of the ten clay and iron toes of the statue, given that the EU with its European Neighborhood Policy (ENP), which was based on the Barcelona Process (initiated by Dr. Solana), was confirmed for 7 years with the ENPI (European Neighborhood Policy Instrument, 2007-2013), between the EU and many nations (which included Israel), and that Dr. Solana rose to power in the EU from the 10-nation WEU. Again, highly suggest that you read Mr. Herb Peter's overview, if you have not yet done so, Habag: http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/page/overview/

[habag]

Hi,

Well you have interesting points. However, I tend to believe what God has shown me. THe keys to my understanding come from Daniel and Rev. And the key one in REv is in chapter 17, 'And these are 7 kings, five have fallen, one, and the other is yet to come...and there is a 8th.' The 'other that is yet to come is our present world order which is soon to undrego a change. And it is after this time Anti-Christ is revealed. Besides, I hear Solana is stepping down.

habag

[nonymouse]

Yes, he recently said he plans to retire in the fall. However, there have been rumors at least twice before of his retiring, none of which came to fruition. Believe you would find the facts and information compelling, if you give it a chance, Habag. It may all be wrong, but it may also be all right. Time will tell.

[habag]

Hi,

Thank you. But I do not mean to be rude or seemed to be arrogant, but I would not fine the info compelling. God has shown me what I told you. And your rendition of the unfolding of events conflicts with my understanding.

The 8th Beast was to be of the 7. But it had to be one of the 'five are fallen', for he then says 'and one is'. This one is was Rome, as he wrote during this kingdom. So this EU is the revived Rome is incorrect. Because read this, 'The beast which WAS and is not...'

habag

[nonymouse]

How do you account for the toes being partly iron, as iron represented the Roman Empire.

[habag]

Hi,

Because many of the nations in the world today had been Roman.

habag

[mark s]

Hi,

Daniel 2 only give the general outline of the progress of histroy. BUt other chapters add more detail. We must put things together to have a more complete understanding.

habag

Hi habag,

Considering that Daniel chapter two tells us the "Rock" struck the image upon its feet, which Daniel interprets as:

2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

This is pretty clear, that during the time of the 10 kings Christ will destroy all worldly empires, to establish His Own.

This is the same as the fourth beast in chapter seven, with ten horn, whom the Lord shall take away its dominion, to give it to the saints.

Considering the clarity of these teachings, where is the Scripture which tells us there is yet another kingdom, or empire, which comes after the 10 toes, after the fourth beast with 10 horns?

Love in Christ,
mark

[habag]

Hi Mark,

Dan. 2 is a general outline for the progression of the history of nations. We must go to other chapters in Daniel, and other Books, such as Revelation, to get the 'complete' picture.

And while the Rock strikes the toes, this just means that the toes are at the end of days. They break-up remember. Which means they re-organize. The Rock then also strikes the 8th Beast the AC.

habag

[mark s]

Hi Mark,

Dan. 2 is a general outline for the progression of the history of nations. We must go to other chapters in Daniel, and other Books, such as Revelation, to get the 'complete' picture.

And while the Rock strikes the toes, this just means that the toes are at the end of days. They break-up remember. Which means they re-organize. The Rock then also strikes the 8th Beast the AC.

habag

Hi habag,

What Scriptures can you point to that specifically tell us this is so?

The Rock strikes the toes and they are crushed into powder, that blows away in the wind, and the Rock become a mountain that fills the earth, the final government, not of man, but of Christ. Not "reorganized toes".

Were are we told they reorganize?

Love in Christ,
Mark

[habag]

Mark,

I have give these Scriptures already. But once again briefly. There are certain 'keys to prophecy' regarding the end of days play on nations. The first of these is Dan2, and the great image. This is only a 'general outline' for events. Cncern your self not that these are 'empires', that is not the point. They are 'heads', authorities, principalities, and powers. These exist in the heavenlies. Their earthy counterparts are but a veil.

The next key is found in Rev17. 'And the angel said to me, 'Why did you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and the beast that carries her which has the 7 heads and 10 horns. The beast that you saw was and is not and is about to come out of the abyss and go to destruction . And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. And they are 7 kings, five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes he must remain a little while. The beast that was and is not, is an 8th and is one of the 7, and he goes to destruction. The 10 horns which you saw are 10 kings who have not yet received a kingdom but they will receive authority with the beast for one hour....verse 18.'

The 8th beast is the one WITH 7 heads, that carries the woman. It is one of the 7. BUt more correctly, it is one of te five which had fallen before the 6th king, namely Rome. I do not have time to explain here, but it is the 5th head, Israel, (and specifically, Herod's Israel, for he is the type of AC; while behind him stands Rome in Satan's place). For Israel received its 'deadly wound' in 70AD, and thus became the 'beast that was.' But it was to come, and did so in 1948, its wound healed by the UN.

This UN represents the 7th head, which is 'headed as it were, by the US. ANd this IS the 10 toes. BUt that order is about to shake apart. 7 means 'completion.And so the toes completed the image. But 8th means mystery. It is the beast that was, is not, and will be.

The next key is Rev13. There we learn of the beast with the deadly wound, whos wound was healed-was, is not, is. He comes up out of the abyss, the sea of the nations that is; out of the UN.

The last key concerns the 10 horns. And all that needs to be said is that at one point in the 70th week, because of wars, wars, and rumors of wars, they receive power from AC.

habag

[mark s]

Mark,

I have give these Scriptures already. But once again briefly. There are certain 'keys to prophecy' regarding the end of days play on nations. The first of these is Dan2, and the great image. This is only a 'general outline' for events. Cncern your self not that these are 'empires', that is not the point. They are 'heads', authorities, principalities, and powers. These exist in the heavenlies. Their earthy counterparts are but a veil.

Hi habag,

You have suggested that I not be concerned that these are empires, and that this is not the point. However, Daniel the Prophet said,

Daniel 2:36-40
(36) This is the dream, and we will tell the meaning of it before the king.
(37) You O king are the king of kings. For the God of Heaven has given you the kingdom, the power, and the strength, and the honor.
(38) And wherever the sons of men, the animals of the field, and the birds of the sky dwell, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all. You are the head of gold.
(39) And in your place shall arise another kingdom lower than yours, and another third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule in all the earth.
(40) And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron. Inasmuch as iron crushes and smashes all things, and as the iron that shatters all these, it will crush and shatter.

This is specifically kingdoms. These are not my words, they are Daniel's words.

Daniel said specifically, "you are the head of gold". This was to Nebuchadnezzar, not to an heavenly power or principality.

And each of these portions of the statue were kingdoms "lower than yours", kingdoms upon the earth.

The next key is found in Rev17. 'And the angel said to me, 'Why did you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and the beast that carries her which has the 7 heads and 10 horns. The beast that you saw was and is not and is about to come out of the abyss and go to destruction . And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. And they are 7 kings, five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes he must remain a little while. The beast that was and is not, is an 8th and is one of the 7, and he goes to destruction. The 10 horns which you saw are 10 kings who have not yet received a kingdom but they will receive authority with the beast for one hour....verse 18.'

Where in passage tells us that these ten kings will come and go, and the world will organize under a different system?

Daniel 2:44
(44) And in the days of these kings, the God of Heaven shall set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed. And the kingdom shall not be left to other people.

The 8th beast is the one WITH 7 heads,

This isn't stated quite right . . .

Revelation 17:7-14
(7) And the angel said to me, Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast supporting her, the one having the seven heads and the ten horns.
(8) The beast which you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss, and goes to perdition. And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, the ones whose names have not been written on the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, seeing the beast, that it was a thing, and is not, yet now is.
(9) Here is the mind having wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains, where the woman sits on them.
(10) And the kings are seven. The five fell, and the one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he does come, he must remain a little.
(11) And the beast which was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes to perdition.
(12) And the ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive authority as kings one hour with the beast.
(13) These have one mind, and their power and authority they shall give up to the beast.
(14) These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and the ones with Him are the called and elect and faithful ones.

This beast, "even he is the eighth", not the eighth beast, the eighth head.

that carries the woman. It is one of the 7. BUt more correctly, it is one of te five which had fallen before the 6th king, namely Rome. I do not have time to explain here, but it is the 5th head, Israel, (and specifically, Herod's Israel, for he is the type of AC; while behind him stands Rome in Satan's place). For Israel received its 'deadly wound' in 70AD, and thus became the 'beast that was.' But it was to come, and did so in 1948, its wound healed by the UN.

This UN represents the 7th head, which is 'headed as it were, by the US. ANd this IS the 10 toes. BUt that order is about to shake apart. 7 means 'completion.And so the toes completed the image. But 8th means mystery. It is the beast that was, is not, and will be.

There . . . this is the part that I'm asking you to Scripturally support - that while the Scripture says in the days of those kings Christ will set up His kingdom, that the Lamb will fight against them, that they are the last kingdom, given power with the beast, where does the Scripture say that the actual last kingdom does not include these 10 kings?

This UN represents the 7th head, which is 'headed as it were, by the US. ANd this IS the 10 toes.

In this part you make the 7th head equal to the 10 toes. You then claim that because it is the seventh head it completes the image, and so we are done with the image, and the eighth head is beyond the image, we've gone past it.

This rests on your assertion that the 10 toes show completion of the image, and so its over, no more to be considered.

However, Daniel says the Rock smote the image, and specifically at its toes, and says, "in the days of those kings . . .".

Your interpretation is based on your assertion that the head number seven shows completion of the image, while head number eight is still to come, and that the 10 kings will be done and gone before head number 8 comes. This is not stated in Scripture, but it does conflict with Scripture.

Love in Christ,
mark

[habag]

Mark,

Your last statement is a distortion of what I said. I told you plainly Dn2 must be included with other chapters to get the whole picture. I have told you exactly the way things will unfold. Take it or leave it. I present it here for people to know about. I do not care to debate. Nor do I care to die by a 1000 'points'. I realize I have upset some silversmiths.

habag http://www.habagministry.com

[Abiding in His Word]

Mark,

Your last statement is a distortion of what I said. I told you plainly Dn2 must be included with other chapters to get the whole picture. I have told you exactly the way things will unfold. Take it or leave it. I present it here for people to know about. I do not care to debate. Nor do I care to die by a 1000 'points'. I realize I have upset some silversmiths.

Hello habag,

The very purpose of a discussion board is the exchange of views pertaining to scripture. One person presents the results of his/her study and another presents theirs either in agreement or from a different perspective. Both are free to ask questions and ask for clarification. It's the very nature of a discussion board.

If one person knows "exactly" the way things will unfold, there would be no need for a discussion board, right? So, I don't think "take it or leave it" is a fair or reasonable comment for this type of environment.

[mark s]

Mark,

Your last statement is a distortion of what I said. I told you plainly Dn2 must be included with other chapters to get the whole picture. I have told you exactly the way things will unfold. Take it or leave it. I present it here for people to know about. I do not care to debate. Nor do I care to die by a 1000 'points'. I realize I have upset some silversmiths.

habag http://www.habagministry.com

Hi habag,

With all due respect, we have the Bible to tell us how things will unfold, although we do have some disagreement over exactly what it is saying to us.

But when I see what appears to me to be a clear statement in Scripture, and I see someone say something that conflicts with that clear statement, I have to "take" what Scripture says.

I have endeavored to clarify where I find disagreement between what I understand you to be saying, and what I understand Scripture to be saying. If you feel I have misunderstood one of these, I welcome you to point that out, and elaborate as you choose.

If your understanding of what is to come is based on Scripture, you will be able to show where the Scripture teaches it.

Scripture tells us to examine everything, and hold on to the good. I desire to look at any idea presented, but I must always test it with Scripture.

Love in Christ,
Mark

[habag]

Hi Mark,

I speak what God shows me. He does nothing without revealing it to His servants, the prophets. I just present here what is revealed. People must accept it or reject it for themselves. I do not like to get into long drawn out discussions.

habag

[mark s]

Hi Mark,

I speak what God shows me. He does nothing without revealing it to His servants, the prophets. I just present here what is revealed. People must accept it or reject it for themselves. I do not like to get into long drawn out discussions.

habag

Hi habag,

Do you then claim to speak as a prophet? Or are the prophets you refer to those recorded in Scripture?

Love in Christ,
Mark

[habag]

Mark,

I 'expound' what the prophets say. I explain what they speak of. God has given me insight. And if He wishes to give me more than that, perhaps to be His mouth, then He will declare it. He will make it known. I wait upon the Lord.

habag

[mark s]

I 'expound' what the prophets say. I explain what they speak of. God has given me insight.

Hi habag,

That being the case, then it is reasonable, is it not, that you would be able to show us those specific places where the prophets spoke such things?

I mean no offense, but please understand, many people come and say many things, and we want to know what it true. We look to the Holy Scriptures as our final authority of truth. If what someone teaches conflicts with Scripture, we must always stay on the side of Scripture. I feel certain you will agree with this.

Our goal is not to simply "take or leave" anything, but to "test all things, and hold fast to what is good".

Love in Christ,
Mark

[habag]

Mark,

One more time. The 7 does show completion. But in Dan 2 you do not have the 7 shown, so you must go to other places to see the whole. Dan2 is a 'general' picture.

But the 7 is not all. As Rev17 shows, there is a mystery; there is an 8th, which is one of the 7 returned. And it is with this 8th that the end of days are accomplished.

This 8th arises during the time of the 10 Toes, our world today. There is always overlap in these 'beasts'. History does not begin and end in neat little segments. Just like the Covenant of the Law seemed to overlap into the Covenant of Grace.

The 10 horns which are spoken of in Rev 17 are not the exact sme as the 10 Toes. These are a re-organization of these by AC during the 70th.

You are upset because my identification of the 8th conflicts with your world. It shakes the foundation of your view of the end. So I can understand why you would fight.

habag

[mark s]

Mark,

One more time. The 7 does show completion. But in Dan 2 you do not have the 7 shown, so you must go to other places to see the whole. Dan2 is a 'general' picture.

Hi habag,

The presupposition here, which I do not see being supported, is that Daniel 2 does not show a complete view of world history. Not complete in the sense of every detail presented, rather, complete in the sense that it shows a start to finish narrative.

Daniel presents the view that in the days of the 10 kings, Christ comes and establishes His kingdom.

But the 7 is not all. As Rev17 shows, there is a mystery; there is an 8th, which is one of the 7 returned. And it is with this 8th that the end of days are accomplished.

This 8th arises during the time of the 10 Toes, our world today. There is always overlap in these 'beasts'. History does not begin and end in neat little segments. Just like the Covenant of the Law seemed to overlap into the Covenant of Grace.

Scripture tells us in Dan 2 that the 10 toes - ten kings - remain until Christ comes.

The 10 horns which are spoken of in Rev 17 are not the exact sme as the 10 Toes. These are a re-organization of these by AC during the 70th.

And this is in direct conflict with Dan 2, that the ten kings remain until Christ comes.

You are upset because my identification of the 8th conflicts with your world. It shakes the foundation of your view of the end. So I can understand why you would fight.

Habag, what concerns me is that you are presenting views that conflict with Scripture. This is one clearly seen example.

Love in Christ,
Mark

[habag]

Mark,

My views conflict in 'your' opinion. And I hardly consider you an expert!

habag

Ps When I speak of these 10 kings I go to Rev17 where IT says these have no kingdome yet, but receive power to rule for 1 hour.

Also, why did you lock the other post Prophecy in the Stars? I never said this was a prophecy. I was merely speculating, though I tend to beleive it?

[Exit40]

My views conflict in 'your' opinion. And I hardly consider you an expert!

It seems your fruit is ripening.

God Bless

David

[NewlyBorninChrist]

29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you. Ephesians 4:29-32

Regardless of your differing views gentlemen, let me suggest that you agree to disagree for the moment and perhaps you can both find some common ground to stand on by remembering to and allow Him to bring the light of understanding to your conflicting views of scripture. It seems to me that you have both stepped into some dangerous territory and I suggest that you not forget that we are part of His body and we should be lifting each other up for His Glory even in spite of our differences in opinion. I'm a youngster in the Lord but even I can see anger seething and giving the enemy an opening to tempt the both of you to sin. Shalom Brothers!!!

YBIC
Rob

[AndCanItBe]

Mark,

My views conflict in 'your' opinion. And I hardly consider you an expert!

habag

Ps When I speak of these 10 kings I go to Rev17 where IT says these have no kingdome yet, but receive power to rule for 1 hour.

Also, why did you lock the other post Prophecy in the Stars? I never said this was a prophecy. I was merely speculating, though I tend to beleive it?

If you haven't had a chance to review the board rules here habag, I would suggest you do so. Our number one rule is

1. Our number one rule is from our Lord Himself. We are to love each other, no matter how deeply we may disagree. If we can't even handle each other, how are we going to handle persecution? So, if it can't be said in love, don't say it.

and our number 2 rule

2. Number two rule is to always honor God's Word as our ultimate authority. It's OK to disagree about what it says, but don't disagree about what it is.

http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8875

Mark has done nothing here but politely ask for you to back up your insights with scripture. If we wish to follow God and not men, we must always hold up any insights against scripture as the final authority. Certainly, as the rules state, it's okay that we sometimes disagree about what scripture says. The very nature of a discussion board is to hash those disagreements out, and being a Christian one, we are required to do so in a loving manner, that may challenge or even attack an idea, but not the person.

[NewlyBorninChrist]

My views conflict in 'your' opinion. And I hardly consider you an expert!

It seems your fruit is ripening.

God Bless

David

Kind of a harsh accusation against someone who is obviously frustrated. Haven't you ever spoken hastily in anger David? The true fruit is in repentance which is something we all have to do on a daily basis. Be aware of who the accuser is and refrain from being tempted to bear false witness. Not trying to offend, just remind. Salt and Light!

YBIC
Rob

[mark s]

Mark,

My views conflict in 'your' opinion. And I hardly consider you an expert!

habag

Hi habag,

As you have stated that the 10 toes of Daniel's image do not represent 10 kings who will be in power at the time of Christ's return, this conflicts with Daniel 2 which states that they will be - "in the days of those kings".

Let the reader decide - my concern is that we not overthrow the plain statements of Scripture.

I'm far more concerned about how we read Scripture than the specific eschatological conclusions we reach. We have to hold to the exact Words of Scripture, subjecting our understandings to them, not willing to overlook anything, or try to "re-interpret" anything to fit our views.

We have to be willing to cast out any conclusions we've reached if they conflict with a single word of the text.

If we do that, we will eventually reach correct conclusions. But if we don't do that, we've lost our moorings, and are adrift.

Also, why did you lock the other post Prophecy in the Stars? I never said this was a prophecy. I was merely speculating, though I tend to beleive it?

Please address questions concerning the administration of the forum to an Admin or Mod via Private Message - Thank you!

Love in Christ,
Mark

[Exit40]

Haven't you ever spoken hastily in anger David?

YBIC
Rob

Hi Rob, yes I have. And I have humbly accepted my upbraiding when I have. Apologizing and repenting seems the natural course for me in those cases. I appreciate your comments Rob, and I have given them a lot of thought, and especially in how to respond properly to them.

I have read most of Habag's messages and frankly, there have been implications in them that have been very unsettling to me. That matter has been on my heart and it is from there I spoke. I don't believe Habag spoke out of anger or frustration, but from a different spirit. I have been expecting just the reaction he has given. So I spoke from my heart. Perhaps I was a bit too harsh. While Mark probably wouldn't call himself an expert, but I find his humble and gracious nature everywhere he writes. He handles the Word of God in a way I admire, which is a reason I follow him around on these forums. I learn a lot from him. Perhaps also I felt a need to defend Mark, again maybe a bit too harshly. I'm sure Mark can defend himself if he feels the need, but rather his gentle way is to let Scripture speak for itself. So maybe I stepped out of line in my statement. Maybe I should have let the conversation run it's course. Too late for me now, as I have spoken my feelings, from my heart, and if I deserve correction for my interference I will humbly accept it.

Thanks again Rob. I have taken no offence. I have taken your words into my heart.

God Bless You

David

[Douggg]

The 8th beast is the one WITH 7 heads, that carries the woman. It is one of the 7. BUt more correctly, it is one of te five which had fallen before the 6th king, namely Rome. I do not have time to explain here, but it is the 5th head, Israel, (and specifically, Herod's Israel, for he is the type of AC; while behind him stands Rome in Satan's place). For Israel received its 'deadly wound' in 70AD, and thus became the 'beast that was.' But it was to come, and did so in 1948, its wound healed by the UN.

This UN represents the 7th head, which is 'headed as it were, by the US. ANd this IS the 10 toes. BUt that order is about to shake apart. 7 means 'completion.And so the toes completed the image. But 8th means mystery. It is the beast that was, is not, and will be.

The next key is Rev13. There we learn of the beast with the deadly wound, whos wound was healed-was, is not, is. He comes up out of the abyss, the sea of the nations that is; out of the UN.

habag, the seven kings in Revelation 17 are seven human "kings", persons, not kingdoms. So Rome is not the sixth king - because Rome is a kingdom, not a king.

The 7 kings are: five fallen:
Julius Caesar
Augustus Caesar
Tiberius
Caligula
Claudius
the sixth ruling at the time of John was Nero (last of the Julio-Claudian family, i.e the Caesars)

.....2000 year break.........

the seventh to rule for a short period future of John - will be the Antichrist during his first 3 1/2 years.
the eighth will be the revealed man of sin - the Antichrist during his second 3 1/2 years.

All of the above kings are of the fourth empire of Daniel 2, the Roman Empire. The Antichrist, being "of" the seven,
means that the Antichrist will be either of the literal bloodline of the Caesar family (which Nero was the last of that family Dynasty), or it is speaking symbolically that the Antichrist will be ruling the end times Roman Empire, in the same role as the Caesars did during their time.

The last key concerns the 10 horns. And all that needs to be said is that at one point in the 70th week, because of wars, wars, and rumors of wars, they receive power from AC. habag

I agree that the ten horns are ten kings that will rule in conjunction with the Antichrist during the last days - for the 7 years of his reign. Whether it is currently the leaders of the ten nations of the WEU, I don't know. But it could be.

Doug L.

[plalgum]

Hi Dougg,
I do not think that a leader(king) in Europe is going to be a king over the Chinese,orthe Russians for that matter,I think that the World will be dived into ten economic trading blocks,modeled on the EU.Adamantines recent post about the EU becoming stronger through this world financial crisis,could well start the ball rolling.
There is talk of the North American union,African union,Asia pacific union,....these may be a reality in the near future.Antichrist and his ten kings ruling the entire world.

[kirthril]

I think everyone needs to reread Daniel Chapter 8. It tells us some of the events plain as day:

(this is the Ram and Shaggy goat vision)

1. Ram with 2 horns, on longer than the other that grows later
2. Ram charges towards West, North, South, noone can stand against him and became great
3. Goat with prominent Horn comes from the west, and attacks the Ram
4. Goat shatters the Rams 2 horns
5. Goat becomes very great but at hieght of power large horn is broken off and 4 horns grow in place
6. Out of the 4 another smaller horn grows iin power towards the South and East.
7. Small horn, takes away the daily sacrifice and it prospers in everything it does

NOW!!!
Gabriel then tells Daniel: "This vision concerns the time of the end"
1.The Ram is the kings of Media-Persia
2. Goat is the king of greece and the Large horn is the 1st king!
3. The 4 horns that replace the large one are 4 kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but not have same power
4. In the late part of thier reign, another king will arise amongst them and will cause astounding devastation
5. He will be destroyed but not by human power

Daniel Chapter 11: read it carefully, i will not go over it as there is a lot of back and forth warfare between the North and south. But look closely at the kings/kingdoms mentioned..... (hint... read chapter 8)

Once again, Michael tells daniel, this vision concerns a future time. And if you read, you will see that the continuous warfare between the North and South leads to the AoD and the AC dominating the Saints. And we know how that ends.
............

The way i am begninning to see it is this:

If indeed the EU is the revived roman empire, then its 1st king the EU president would be the one described as the king of Greece. Not long into his term, the media-persians will make war on the EU, I am taking this to mean (islam). The results of the war cause the EU to split into 4 quadrants each with a ruler. As warfare continues, another king, small in stature will rise to power quickly, promising peace but delivering destruction. Along the way there will be 10 people in a power struggle with him, he will subdue 3 of them, the rest will lend him their power.

He takes his place as king of the North and marches against the East and South, and in the process invades the holy land and does his evil deed. After defeating the South, reports from the East and North alarm him, and he makes off to destroy and annihilate many.

As for America, i am really begnning to think that we may be the "mystery babylon". And the way i see it is this: If we continue along this path (with what obama and the libs are doing to our nation), civil war and unrest is going to break out once it is revealed that totalitarianism has gotten a solid hold in our gov't.

Martial law will be declared and most liekly since i doubt our own military would work against its own citizens, foriegn troops will be brought on our soil to help quell the civil unres, rioting, and violence. But Americans wont be suppressed, eventually, the "chosen one", the King of the North, with the help of the god of fortresses will snap and send a torrent of judgement on America. In 1 hour, we will be destroyed. The smoke of our burning will rise to the heavens.

After this, the world will be in shock "look what he did... Who can make war on him?". But the realization that America is gone will hit and hit hard. The world economy will spiral down out of control. Without the worlds largest buyer to fuel the economies of many other nations, a global economic depression will set in, with many economies being totally annihilated. Many will weep becasue america, the last symbol of freedom and the great trading partner of the world is gone.

This is when i think the King of the south will rebel against the AC thus causing the AC to mach against him, invading Israel in the process declaring himself above all other gods. After putting down the south, the east and northern nations of Asia will rebel as well, he will go off to make war with them.

But he will cause truth to be thrown to the grown, he will cause deciet and lies to prosper, eventually he will get the world to realize that its the fault of Jews/christians and will bring the nations against Israel on that great and mighty day known as.....


Armageddon.