Not God's Temple!

by **habag** on Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:00 am

Shalom from Eilat Israel,

I am new to the Board. But interested in commenting on many things of interest to me, and perhaps you. I am from Georgia, but have lived in Israel for two years; one in Jerusalem, and now in Eilat. This poat wil not be very long. But I will add to it.

My basic position is that the temple which will be built is not God's temple, but the temple of the Anti-Christ. God destroyed the temple of stone through the body of Messiah. And He built a new and living temple through His resurrection.

The temple to come is for purposes of deception. Paul said in Galatians 2 that if he rebuilt what he once destroyed, he became a transgressor. The Man of Sin does just this.

There is a timeframe for the end of days in Psalm 119. The AC, who is now in power in Israel, will propose the re-building of the temple. This construction will begin in about 7 years. And it is 'this' event which sets in motion the end of days, or the 70th Week of Daniel.

We 'can' know the season of the end. We cannot set a 'day' or hour however. And I beleive God has revealed this timeframe in Psalm 119. Besides, I hold that the Church goes through the Trib. So if we knpow when certain events occur during that Week, like when AC stands in the temple, then we can say the Lord will return in about 3 or 3.5 years.

But God does not want a temple. And animal blood would be an abomination, and an insult to the sacrifice of Christ. This temple is to keep the eyes blinded of the Jewish remnant, for the purpose of trying to destroy them.

In the Lord,

habag http://www.habagministry.com

by **burien1** on Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:19 am

to Fp, Habag.

Interesting post. Who do you believe the AC to be ?

by **Salty Skipper** on Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:06 am

Hi Habag!

to FP!

I think we at this site are mostly in agreement that any 'temple' that is built between now and the time of Christ isn't a holy temple by any means. The only way to the Father is through the son, Jesus Christ! :a3:

by **Cantaress4Him** on Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:22 am

Welcome to the board, habag!

I am in agreement that this new temple which is in the works will only be the results of human effort. I don't believe God will be in it at all. My belief is based on the reasons you gave in your post.

And regarding the following:

habag wrote:The AC, who is now in power in Israel, will propose the re-building of the temple.

Are we to take this as your believing that Benyamin Netanyahu is the AC? Please say it ain't so because most of us on this board are behind him 100%. Please explain your statement.

by **nonymouse** on Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:40 pm

Welcome, Habag. If you have not yet read Herb Peter's "Overview," you may wish to do so: http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/page/overview/

Also, there is a free online video of Herb speaking (accessible from the index page), as well as his free, online book (accessible at top, right of the main webpage, www.fulfilledprophecy.com .

Look forward to your answers to the above questions.

by **Spreading Salt** on Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:58 pm

Habag!

by **habag** on Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:40 pm

Hi, and thank you all for your warm welcomes!

I will only reply in brief. Its 11:30 here now and I have to get up a 4:45. If you went to my website, some things will be answered for you. But as far as the identity of the AC, let me say this. In 1948-49, 4 things happened: THe 'Woman' returned, ei Israel was born as a nation; The Restrainer Michael was removed, and the War in Heaven was fought. Satan was cast to the earth and conceived his child. This child was conceived in Jan 49, and born Oct 49.

That child was Benjamin Netanyahu. He is 'son of my right hand'; and the 'gift of god'. He comes as a deceiver. Thus he comes as the great defender of Israel. But he is the 'worthless shepherd'! The end of days is all about deception.

Goodnight,

habag

by **Salty Skipper** on Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:48 pm

Just a wee reminder of rule 8.

8. No labeling somebody the AC. Instead of the person, focus on the prophecies you feel the person may be fulfilling. Let God do the labeling, not us.

by **habag** on Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:44 pm

Thanks Salty Dog,

I had to register 3 times before I could log on. So I admit I rushed to post before reading the rules. So, let me say it like this. I believe BN is fulfilling many of the prophecies which were said to be fulfilled by the AC. Another prophecy isfound in the other story of his name - Benjamin. His father called him Benjamin. But his mother called him, 'Ben' oni', meaning 'son of my sorrow. She died, remember, at his birth. So AC will be to his mother "Israel', a son of sorrys. For it is the time of Jacob's trouble.

But also, for the time table found in Psalm 119, it is necessary for the AC to have been born in 1949. He must be old enough to be in Israeli politics at the proper time. It is also interesting to learn from a post on this website, that BN wants to rebuild the temple. This I did not know before God reveiled to me the idenity of AC.

I am in Israel at this time for a reason. I too was born in 1949, Dec 4. In 1988 God gave me this word: Search for the lost sheep of the house of Israel; gather the scattered seed of Jacob.' It took 20 years of waiting before God opened this door. But I am here to help snatch from the jaws of the lion the remnant of Israel.

Look for this possible thing to also happen. In Zach. there is mentioned a 'worthless shepherd' and he will have one eye and a wounded right arm. **EDIT BY BTM** But it may have a 'spiritual' meaning, separately, or in conjunction with the physical. I say this because I think it significant that this WS has a wounded 'right arm'. And what does his name mean but 'son of my right hand.' The AC is the right hand man of Satan on earth. And in a struggle for power, he will be **EDIT BY BTM***.

God's timing is all so perfect and it is wonderful to behold!

habag

Ps I think there is a timframe in Pslam 119 for the end of days. Tough I do not think its 'date setting', if you want I will give it to you by PM.

by **OneDay** on Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:20 am

Wow! habag! Good to have you on the board! You can give us a perspective from someone living inside Israel! Do you have any thoughts as to the workings of Solana, Obama, & Blair?

Thanks Salty Dog,

- Too cute! :lol:

by **habag** on Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:00 pm

Thanks Holy Now,

Concerning the people, Solana and Blair, I have to tell you straight-up that I am probably at odds with most of what this Board teaches concerning the unfolding of events of the end of days. I in no way wish to insult anyone. Or 'argue'. I wish only to present my views, and invite 'discussion'.

My views are controversial, and certainly different from most of what you hear concerning the whole range of end of days topics. SO some dismiss me outright as one grossly under informed. For example! I will probably be posting soon on the mystery of Israel's redemption. Here is a brief statement on this.

Only the 'remnant' will be saved. There is no 'national redemption'. And this remnant, though one, is saved in two time periods. And the two houses of Jacob picture this. Judah was saved first. Then Jews faded from the Body. But at these end of days God is visiting the Jews to call out the 'rest of' 'all Israel'. And this is the house of Israel. But enough!

The Lord is Good!

habag

PS I just saw that!!!! I did not mean to call you 'Salty Dog'. I do NOT know where I got that???? NO, I do know. My screen, the text that is, is oversize BIGtime and I do not know how to reduce it. The thing in the upper right does nothing to help. I am a computer idiot. Can anyone help? Anyway, so I only saw the 'salty' part, and somhow thought 'salty dog'. Sorry!

by **Abiding in His Word** on Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:33 pm

habag wrote: PS I just saw that!!!! I did not mean to call you 'Salty Dog'. I do NOT know where I got that????

I got a chuckle out of that too, habag. We have Salty Dog restaurants in Florida so I thought that's what you might have been thinking about.....

by **1whowaits** on Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:05 pm

Not the temple of God? Rev 11:1 states- 'I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, 'Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshippers there. But exclude the outer court; do not measure it because it has been given to the gentiles.'

The description in Rev 11 does appear to be that of a literal, physical temple, with an altar, outer court (and presumably an inner court), and worshippers within it. And this temple is called the 'temple of God', not by a man, but by an angel or God Himself (it is not clear from the text).

Although Jesus has fulfilled the law and there is no longer any place for sin offerings, there is no indication that God forbids the rebuilding of His Temple. In fact it appears from Zech 6 that Jesus helps rebuild the temple during the millenium- ''Here is the man whose name is the Branch, and he will branch out from his place and build the temple of the Lord.' (the 'Branch' is recognized as a name used for the Messiah, Jesus).

Isa 2 also indicates that there will be a rebuilt temple during the millenium- 'In the last days the mountain of the Lord's temple will be established as chief among the mountains...many peoples will come and say, 'Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob.' The 'mountain of the Lord's temple' is the temple mount, and the 'house of the God of Jacob' is the temple of God.

The Jewish people can rebuild the temple and call it the Temple of God, and Rev 11 appears to refer to that rebuilt temple. But it appears that God does not inhabit that temple as the AC is not killed the moment he enters it, so the temple will not truly be God's consecrated temple until He returns at armageddon, and then He, Jesus, rebuilds it, and apparently consecrates it at the end of the 2,300 days, according to Dan 8 (it will take 2,300 evenings and mornings and then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated).

by **wkc** on Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:50 pm

Regarding the temple referred to in Isaiah. I'm coming to understand that the Messiah's temple is that which is during the Millennial reign.

I agree with Habag regarding both the temple and the sacrifices and have believed such for quite a few years.

I've been thinking now for several months that much of our current thinking whether pre, mid or post trib is a result of some influence either overtly of subtly of dispensationalism. I also believe that dispensationalism evolved as an religious rationalization as an answer to evolutionary theory. The "Age of Reason" has had a lot of influence in the church. At any rate, I suppose I'm thinking that these last days might unfold quite differently than what we have expected.

My thinking is so outside the box that I don't post often. I have just come to realize over the years that our thinking is greatly influenced by those church fathers who didn't even know that Israel would exist again. If we see through a glass darkly, then certainly, I don't believe they could conceive of the unfolding that we've seen in the last 50 years.

I'm rambling. Sorry. Welcome to the board Habag. A fresh perspective is good.

by **habag** on Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:23 pm

Goodmorning wkc and 1whowaits,

Thanks for the words, and the greetings. It will certianly not be God's temple. But what was the angel to say: 'measure the place which is called God's temple, but really is not.' It will be called God's temple by those who build it through a man, the AC. This one is the false messiah. The Jews look for the messiah to come. And they believe they will know him because he re-builds the temple, and, by the way, restores the tabernacle of David, as he will claim to be the seed of David.

Thank you both for your comments,

habag

Ps wkc I forgot to comment. WE, the people of God, are His temple, His house. We are His vineyard, the planting of the Lord. And we will take root downward and fill the earth with fruit in the 1000 years. We are the Zion of God. And the name by which we will be called is, The Lord is there.

by **Resurrection Torchlight** on Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:20 am

welcome habag,

I must disagree with you- there will indeed be a Temple during the Millennial reign, and there will also be sacrifices and the keeping of the law according to Ezekiel 40. Yes we are the temple of the Holy Spirit, while there is no physical temple on earth during this age of grace. But scripture is clear that one day Ezekiel's temple will reside on mount Zion, where the remant Israel will serve as preists and carry out the mosaic law.

RT

by **mightymac** on Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:30 am

Hi Torch,
just a question: why would there be sacrifices? Jesus was THE sacrifice, once and for all sin. Otherwise, we would still now be required to sacrifice today. Jesus took care of everything.

by **Resurrection Torchlight** on Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:48 am

Hi Torch,
just a question: why would there be sacrifices? Jesus was THE sacrifice, once and for all sin. Otherwise, we would still now be required to sacrifice today. Jesus took care of everything.

That is the same question I asked myself when I read Ezekiel 40. Which is clearly speaking of the Millennium. Ezekiel explains how the Glory of God comes to fill the temple just as It left when Jerusalem was sacked by Babylon. Note in verse 7 how the Lord says that the temple is the place of His throne- the place of the soles of His feet where he will dwell among the sons of Israel forever, and they will never defile His name again.
(This is a longish post-- sorry, Just cannot due the subject justice without a more thorough explanation)

Ezekiel 43:1-7
1 Then he led me to the gate, the gate facing toward the east;
2 and behold, the glory of the God of Israel was coming from the way of the east. And His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory.
3 And it was like the appearance of the vision which I saw, like the vision which I saw when He came to destroy the city. And the visions were like the vision which I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell on my face.
4 And the glory of the Lord came into the house by the way of the gate facing toward the east.
5 And the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house.
6 Then I heard one speaking to me from the house, while a man was standing beside me.
7 He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the sons of Israel forever. And the house of Israel will not again defile My holy name, neither they nor their kings, by their harlotry and by the corpses of their kings when they die,

More evidence that this temple will stand during the Millennial reign

Ezekiel 47:7-12
7 Now when I had returned, behold, on the bank of the river there were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
8 Then he said to me, “These waters go out toward the eastern region and go down into the Arabah; then they go toward the sea, being made to flow into the sea, and the waters of the sea become fresh.
9 “It will come about that every living creature which swarms in every place where the river goes, will live. And there will be very many fish, for these waters go there and the others become fresh; so everything will live where the river goes.
10 “And it will come about that fishermen will stand beside it; from Engedi to Eneglaim there will be a place for the spreading of nets. Their fish will be according to their kinds, like the fish of the Great Sea, very many.
11 “But its swamps and marshes will not become fresh; they will be left for salt.
12 “By the river on its bank, on one side and on the other, will grow all kinds of trees for food. Their leaves will not wither and their fruit will not fail. They will bear every month because their water flows from the sanctuary, and their fruit will be for food and their leaves for healing.”

Note how the plan for this temple was to be made known to the nation when Israel shows remorse and shame for their iniquities. I agree with you that the temple that will be built during the final "week" will not be of God, though it may be built to Ezekiel's plan, it will not see the glory of the Lord fill it, because nationally Israel will not truly repent of their sin until the end of the 70th week. However we know the plan has been made known, because we have it in our scripture as do the Jews, this temple has yet to be constructed, neither Solomon's temple nor Herod's fit the dimensions therefore it is a future temple which may indeed be built by the Jews during the first half of the "week" and then it will be defiled and need to be cleansed, just like the temple during the Maccabean revolt. Or it may be a fourth temple that is built during the Millennium after the tribulation third temple is destroyed. In either case it is an actual physical temple.

Ezekiel 43:10-11
10 “As for you, son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and let them measure the plan.
11 “If they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the house, its structure, its exits, its entrances, all its designs, all its statutes, and all its laws. And write it in their sight, so that they may observe its whole design and all its statutes and do them.

Clearly there will be sacrifices offered chapters 45 and 46 go on to explain more offerings and also the feasts of the Lord that will be kept.

Ezekiel 43:18-27
18 And He said to me, “Son of man, thus says the Lord God, ‘These are the statutes for the altar on the day it is built, to offer burnt offerings on it and to sprinkle blood on it.
19 ‘You shall give to the Levitical priests who are from the offspring of Zadok, who draw near to Me to minister to Me,’ declares the Lord God, ‘a young bull for a sin offering.
20 ‘You shall take some of its blood and put it on its four horns and on the four corners of the ledge and on the border round about; thus you shall cleanse it and make atonement for it.
21 ‘You shall also take the bull for the sin offering, and it shall be burned in the appointed place of the house, outside the sanctuary.
22 ‘On the second day you shall offer a male goat without blemish for a sin offering, and they shall cleanse the altar as they cleansed it with the bull.
23 ‘When you have finished cleansing it, you shall present a young bull without blemish and a ram without blemish from the flock.
24 ‘You shall present them before the Lord, and the priests shall throw salt on them, and they shall offer them up as a burnt offering to the Lord.

Ezekiel 44:23-24
23 “Moreover, they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
24 “In a dispute they shall take their stand to judge; they shall judge it according to My ordinances. They shall also keep My laws and My statutes in all My appointed feasts and sanctify My sabbaths.

The Levitical priesthood will stand before the Lord in service

Ezekiel 44:15-16
15 “But the Levitical priests, the sons of Zadok, who kept charge of My sanctuary when the sons of Israel went astray from Me, shall come near to Me to minister to Me; and they shall stand before Me to offer Me the fat and the blood,” declares the Lord God.
16 “They shall enter My sanctuary; they shall come near to My table to minister to Me and keep My charge.
25 ‘For seven days you shall prepare daily a goat for a sin offering; also a young bull and a ram from the flock, without blemish, shall be prepared.
26 ‘For seven days they shall make atonement for the altar and purify it; so shall they consecrate it.
27 ‘When they have completed the days, it shall be that on the eighth day and onward, the priests shall offer your burnt offerings on the altar, and your peace offerings; and I will accept you,’ declares the Lord God.”

So to your question -why the law, why will their be sacrifices in the Millennial Kingdom? To answer this we have to ask why did God establish the law of sacrifice in the Old Testament?

Rather than reinvent the wheel I copied this explanation from here:
http://www.gotquestions.org/animal-sacrifices.html

Question: "Why did God require animal sacrifices in the Old Testament?"

Answer: God required animal sacrifices to provide temporary forgiveness of sins and to foreshadow the perfect and complete sacrifice of Jesus Christ (Leviticus 4:35, 5:10). Animal sacrifice is an important theme found throughout Scripture because “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” (Hebrews 9:22). When Adam and Eve sinned, animals were killed by God to provide clothing for them (Genesis 3:21). Cain and Abel brought sacrifices to the Lord. Cain's was unacceptable because he brought fruit, while Abel's was acceptable because it was the “firstborn of his flock” (Genesis 4:4-5). After the flood receded, Noah sacrificed animals to God (Genesis 8:20-21).

God commanded the nation of Israel to perform numerous sacrifices according to certain procedures proscribed by God. First, the animal had to be spotless. Second, the person offering the sacrifice had to identify with the animal. Third, the person offering the animal had to inflict death upon it. When done in faith, this sacrifice provided forgiveness of sins. Another sacrifice called for on the Day of Atonement, described in Leviticus 16, demonstrates forgiveness and the removal of sin. The high priest was to take two male goats for a sin offering. One of the goats was sacrificed as a sin offering for the people of Israel (Leviticus 16:15), while the other goat was released into the wilderness (Leviticus 16:20-22). The sin offering provided forgiveness, while the other goat provided the removal of sin.

Yes it is true that Christ was the perfect sacrifice who gave Himself once for all, and that is why today we do not practice the law of sacrifices- because we live during the age of grace as it is called. It appears to me that during the Millennial reign, the age of grace will end and the law will again be practiced in albeit a modified form. Why??? because God will again be physically present among those who did not believe in Jesus Christ, and for God to dwell among them, because He can not abide with unrighteousness, offerings will have to be made on their behalf, it appears that these practices will be primarily for the nation of Israel. You will note that when Ezekiel mentions the feasts- he leaves out the Day of Atonement- this is because Jesus already atoned for everyone's sin, yet because of Israel's unbelief they will need to present sin offerings and peace offerings before the Lord. SO the Law will be kept for the house of Israel in the temple of Jerusalem. The nations will also have to observe at least the feast of Tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:16-21
16 Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain on them.
18 If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the Lord smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
19 This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
20 In that day there will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, “HOLY TO THE LORD.” And the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the Lord of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them. And there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts in that day.

Here we see that those Levites who strayed after idols, will not come near to the Lord but will be allowed to keep charge of the temple. And only those foreigners circumcised in heart (new covenant) and in the flesh (old covenant) will be allowed to enter the sanctuary.

Ezekiel 44:9-14
9 ‘Thus says the Lord God, “No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.
10 “But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity.
11 “Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister to them.
12 “Because they ministered to them before their idols and became a stumbling block of iniquity to the house of Israel, therefore I have sworn against them,” declares the Lord God, “that they shall bear the punishment for their iniquity.
13 “And they shall not come near to Me to serve as a priest to Me, nor come near to any of My holy things, to the things that are most holy; but they will bear their shame and their abominations which they have committed.
14 “Yet I will appoint them to keep charge of the house, of all its service and of all that shall be done in it.

Whether or not grace by faith will be offered during the Millennial reign - I do not know, scripture gives us no evidence of this, that I can find- though I might be wrong. But it clearly does give evidence of Israel practicing the law. It may be that the nations will come to faith as foreigners did during OT times, by participating alongside Israel in their feasts and laws. When God is physically present among mankind, faith in the unseen is no longer required, obedience is. During the Millennium it will be much easier for the nations who are left to believe in God and in Jesus because they will know that He is the Lord, they will have the visible tangible evidence. They will also not have the influence of Satan to deal with as he will remain bound for the duration. But they will still have mortal bodies- corrupted by original sin,therefore they will still sin, they will die, and suffer consequences of rebellion, they will produce offspring and repopulate the earth. Those not led by the spirit are under the law. (Galatians 5:18) The law will not be exactly like the Mosaic law, but a version of it will be followed as spelled out in Ezekiel one that incorporates Christ and His atoning sacrifice.

Those of us who do come to faith during the age of grace, and are resurrected/raptured IMO reside in heavenly new Jerusalem- the place of God's throne (earthly Jerusalem is the place of the soles of His feet). Somehow these two are connected physically/spiritually. There is no mention of the Ark of the covenant- because Jesus Himself will sit on His throne- He who embodies the old and new covenants, the law and the fulfillment of the law.

Ephesians 2:14-16
14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,
16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

Jeremiah 3:16-17
16 “It shall be in those days when you are multiplied and increased in the land,” declares the Lord, “they will no longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of the Lord.’ And it will not come to mind, nor will they remember it, nor will they miss it, nor will it be made again.
17 “At that time they will call Jerusalem ‘The Throne of the Lord,’ and all the nations will be gathered to it, to Jerusalem, for the name of the Lord; nor will they walk anymore after the stubbornness of their evil heart.

Anyway sorry this is so long- just got on a roll and couldn't help myself- I could keep going, but I'm sure I'd lose most of you if I did.

God bless

RT

by **1whowaits** on Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:03 pm

RT, i would agree, there will be a temple present during the millenium as Isa 2 indicates, and according to Zech 14 there will be sacrifices during the millenium. While the sin offerings were made null and void by Jesus, not all sacrifices and offerings were for sin, many were for fellowship and worship, and there is no prohibition in scripture against that. In fact, according to Zech 14, the Feast of Tabernacles will be celebrated every year during the millenial reign of Christ, and fellowship offerings were a significant part of that feast.

And the temple will be rebuilt prior to the AOD according to Rev 11, and that rebuilt temple will be called the 'temple of God', as Rev 11 clearly states.

by **WallDoctor** on Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:23 pm

When we say that there will be sacrifices in the Millennium Temple, are we talking about literal animal sacrifices or is it remotely possible it could be the same type of sacrifices of the heart and devotion that believers make today? I just don't see it consistent when the animal sacrificial system was meant to picture Christ for atonement and worship/fellowship sacrifices of the heart why we would go back to an archaic "old" system when they were to picture what we have now and what will exist in an even more pure form in the kingdom to come. I don't doubt that there will be sacrifice but wonder if we are getting too caught up in the method of sacrifice (external animal vs internal heart).

by **1whowaits** on Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:30 pm

Walldoctor, it appears from Zech 14 that there will be animal sacrifices during the millenium- 'all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them.' The fellowship offerings did involve sacrificing the animal and cooking and eating together in fellowship. Eating a meal with Jesus at a feast in His honor and in His temple would be quite wonderful.

Again not all of the sacrifices and offerings were for atonement of sin, some were for worship and fellowship, and clearly there is no prohibition against either of those.

by **Princess of Heaven** on Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:39 am

i was wondering about these verses:

Mar 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

Mat 26:61 And said, This [fellow] said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days

we know that if a temple is built now it wont be of Gods hands, sooo im not seeing a 3rd temple, however i see the millenium temple in the verses above... so the 2nd temple was destroy and on the 3rd day (after 2000 yrs) God will build His temple????? thoughts?

by **Mrs. B** on Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:40 am

Not God's Temple!

This is Jesus Temple........His Temple is the Church....It is built by the Holy Spirit...
If you are are a christian....it is because you were drawn by the Holy Spirit.....
You hear the Word....and you believed and were born again....
Not by Might...nor by power...but by My Spirit saith the Lord...

Paul wrote to the Corinthians..
I Corin. 6:19.....What? know ye not that your Body is the Temple of the Holy Ghost.... which is in you...
which ye have of God, and ye are not Your Own?

20...For ye are bought with a price:
Therefore Glorify God in your body, and in your Spirit which are God's....

We are a many member body of Christ....The Temple Jesus Built....

Zechariah 6:12......And speak unto him, saying...
Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts,
saying, BEHOLD THE MAN WHOSE NAME IS THE BRANCH....
AND HE SHALL GROW UP OUT OF HIS PLACE....AND HE SHALL BUILD THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD...
and he shall grow up out of his place and he shall Build the Temple of the Lord:

13.....Even He shall build the Temple of the Lord;
and He shall bear the Glory...and shall Sit and Rule upon His Throne;
and He shall be a PRIEST upon his throne:
and the counsel of Peace shall be between Them Both

bb

by **Resurrection Torchlight** on Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:17 am

Read Ezekiel 40- the end of the book- clearly this is the millennial temple, clearly these are animal sacrifices, clearly this is a physical temple a building- not the spiritual temple- not the body of Christ. The law will be enacted though it is a modified version of the law- without the day of atonement. The thing you have to grasp is that there are two distinct places- the heavenly and the earthly- the earthly is patterned after the heavenly. New Jerusalem will remain in the heavenly realm, while the earthly realm will be the revived, renewed city of Jerusalem and nation of Israel. God's throne resides in the heavenly New Jerusalem- this is the place where the church is caught up into described in Revelation 1-7, and again at the end of revelation. It is where the seat of God's throne is, while the earthly temple is the place of the soles of His feet. The Chrubim we are told in Ezekiel will bring the Lord's Glory into the temple, Ezekiel says it is just like his other visions of the Cherubim that seem to be a vehicle that carries the throne of God. Ezekiel see through the Crystal expanse (sea) into the heavenly throneroom. So what happens is that The heavenly will reside above the earthly and all will see it like Ezekiel did- the "veil" between the spiritual and physical dimensions will be removed. We are told that the pillar of fire and smoke will reside over earthly Jerusalem just as it did during Moses' day

Isaiah 4:3-6
3 It will come about that he who is left in Zion and remains in Jerusalem will be called holy—everyone who is recorded for life in Jerusalem.
4 When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and purged the bloodshed of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and the spirit of burning,
5 then the Lord will create over the whole area of Mount Zion and over her assemblies a cloud by day, even smoke, and the brightness of a flaming fire by night; for over all the glory will be a canopy.
6 There will be a shelter to give shade from the heat by day, and refuge and protection from the storm and the rain.

So the throne of God is in both earthly and heavenly Jerusalem- the seat is in the heavenly and the footstool the earthly. Exactly how it was first during the days of the Tabernacle, and then during the days of the temple. However the heavenly temple is Christ and those who are in Him- those who are currently serving as the temple of the Holy Spirit- will be caught up into the heavenly realm- we are the Bride- New Jerusalem- we are the city. During the Millennial reign we will reside there and reign over the earth with Christ, at the final Judgment all the rest of those who will have lived righteously will be added to the Bride at the final judgment and become part of the city as well and then descend to the new earth as the bride to inherit eternity. Where God will now reside on earth- the new earth under a new heavens.

That's how I see it- as usual I could be wrong- so study for yourself and see.

RT

by **plalgum** on Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:14 pm

I beleive that the purpose of the temple is simply a place where our Lord rules from,this dichotomy of tandem covenents makes no sence.Read how our God wants an end to animal sacrifice
Isaiah 1:11
"The multitude of your sacrifices— what are they to me?" says the LORD. "I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
Isaiah 1:10-12 (in Context) Isaiah 1 (Whole Chapter)

by **habag** on Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:31 pm

Good Morning,

Very intersting comments and discussions. The key to this is found in Ez.43:9-12. I will not write it. BUt the smal but very big word 'if' shows the conditional nature of this temple.

This is a description of the temple the Jews were to construct upon their return from Babylon. And it would be accomplished 'if' they did certian things. This they failed to do.

There will be no milli temple. The people of God constitute the House of God. I believe in 'Fullness Theology'. Christ is the Fullness. All the conditional things under the Law found their fulfillment in Christ.

For example, the covenant God had with David to always have one of his seed sit on his throne. In the arrangement you have it spoken of in both conditional terms and unconditional terms. THe sons in the flesh were conditional, and they failed. But the Son, Jesus, fulfilled the conditional and the fullness was the unconditional. He fulfilled the covenant to David.

God does not want the blood of animals, either for so-called memorial purposes or otherwise. We do not have to 'look back' to shadows and types when we live with the reality.

habag

by **Abiding in His Word** on Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:47 pm

WallDoctor wrote:why we would go back to an archaic "old" system when they were to picture what we have now and what will exist in an even more pure form in the kingdom to come.

Well...we were never part of the archaic "old" system; the Jews were. They didn't and still don't consider it archaic, but rather the center of their worship. If we can differentiate between believers and unbelieving Jews, it won't be so difficult to understand their efforts to rebuilt their temple.

by **habag** on Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:10 pm

Shalom,

You are correct, this is what the Jews want. And that is why AC will give it to them. They believe the Moshiach will be known in that he re-builds the temple. This is all part of the deception of the AC who will claim to be the seed of David, the Moshiach.

However, so many Christians have this false 'double covenant' view of the Church and Israel. They see this present Jewish State as the fulfillment of the prophets concerning the redeemption of Israel. SO they reason, 'everything, including the temple and and blood must be restored. And some go so far as saying the tabernacle of David must be restored as well, and that Israel must have its king. They too will be deceived by this one who will come, the false Messiah.

habag

by **Seeker** on Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:55 am

Maybe someone has brought this up but I didn't see it as I scanned the posts. It is called the temple of God here when the AC sits in it.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Peace,
Seeker

by **Mrs. B** on Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:41 pm

Re: Not God's Temple!

Maybe someone has brought this up but I didn't see it as I scanned the posts. It is called the temple of God here when the AC sits in it.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

-----------------------------------------

This is why I beleive that the a/c spirit takes over the body of Christ........The falling away church....and declares that he is God......Deceiving if possible the very elect.....

The false church....

Study the doctrine's of Christ....and then see what is being taught today...

Jesus said...
Matt. 28:18....And Jesus came and spake unto them, Saying,
ALL Power is given unto me in heaven and in earth....

18...GO Ye Therefore, and Teach ALL Nations...Baptizing them in the name of the Father , and of the Son,
and of the Holy Ghost:

20....Teaching them TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS...whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I AM with you alway, even unto the end of the World. A-men..

Just like this...
Luke 14:33....So Likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath....He Cannot Be My Disciple....

Luke 14:26.....If any man come to me...and hate not his father , and mother , and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, YEA, and His Own life also, He Cannot Be My Disciple...

27.....And whosoever doth not bear His Cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple....

Who of all our Great Pastors...World Evangelist, Teachers, Churches....teach this???
No one that I know...
If you have a pastor and He is teaching the Teachings of Jesus....Then You are Blessed...

This to me is the Great Falling Away.....Falling away from the True teachings of Jesus....
We study mans interpertation of the Bible instead of studying Jesus Teaching....

Is this the True Church.....or a False church....Who is the Head...Jesus? or some false leader's teachings?

Luke 14:33....So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh NOT ALL that he hath, he cannot be My Disciple...

bb

by **Seeker** on Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:15 pm

Hi Mrs. B,

This is why I beleive that the a/c spirit takes over the body of Christ........The falling away church....and declares that he is God......Deceiving if possible the very elect.....

There are very clear scriptures describing a physical temple during the last 7 years.

Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

This is not a Christian body described it is a physical temple. Measure the temple...the altar...and them that worship within. How can "them" worship within our bodies. It makes no sense here this is describing a physical temple. The court...etc.

Peace,
Seeker

by **Mrs. B** on Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:32 pm

Not God's Temple....

II John 1:7....For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh...
This is a deceiver and an antichrist...

8....Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward...

9...Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God...
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ...He hath both the Father and the Son....

The Kingdom of God.....is a spiritual Kingdom...
The Kingdom of God is with in you...

If we believe another gospel......then we are being deceived.....and christ is not in us....but another christ...
Christ in you...we are the body of Christ....He lives in us....He and the Father...Jesus said will come and abode int us.

The Measuring is not a physical measuring........it is by the Holy Spirit...

Ezekiel 40:1b....In the selfsame day...the hand of the Lord was upon me...and brought me thither..

2.......In the VISION OF GOD...brought he me into the Land of Israel,
and set me upon a very high mountain...by which was as the frame of a city on the south...

This is a Vision....God takes Ezekiel to the Land of Israel

3...And he brought me thither...and behold there was a man whose appearance was like the appearance of Brass...with a line of Flax in his hand...
and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.

4...And the man said unto me, Son of man, Behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears, and set thine heart upon all that I shall shew thee;(spiritual eyes and spiritual ears....Jesus said Hear what the Spirit is saying to the Chruch.)
for to the intent that I might shew them unto thee art though brought hither:
Declare all that thou seest to the House of Israell...

Now..
Ezekiel 2:1....And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee..

2...And he said unto me...Son of Man...I send thee to the children of Israel...To a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me:
they and their fathers have transgressed against me...even unto this day

Im not going to type all of chapter 2....
but I ask that you read it...

7....And thou shalt speak My Words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear:
for they are Most Rebellious..

9...And when I looked, behold an hand was sent unto me;
and LO, A ROLL OF A BOOK WAS THEREIN:

10...AND HE SPREAD IT BEFORE ME AND IT WAS WRITTEN WITHIN AND WITHOUT:
AND THERE WAS WRITTEN THEREIN....Lamentations.....and mourning...and woe..

Remmber in Rev....the WOE after the 6th angel sounded?

3:1...Moreover he said unto me...Son of Man, EAT that thou Findest;
EAT THIS ROLL, AND GO SPEAK UNTO THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL...

So I opened My Mouth, and he caused me to eat that roll..

3...And he said unto me..Son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee..
Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness...

This is just like in
Rev.10:2....And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth...

9....And I went unto the angel, and said unto him give me the little book, And he said unto me...Take It, and Eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy m outh sweet as honey...

10...And I took the little book out of the angel's hand and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey:
and as soon as I had eaten it, My Belly was bitter...

What I am trying to show you......Ezekiel is taken up in the spirit...or Vision and shown the City and the Temple...

This is or the Same thing that happened to John....He was take up and showen the City and the Temple...

This is the New Jerusalem....The Holy City...coming down....this is not Jerusalem of today...

Back to Ezek. 3:10...Moreover he said unto me, Son of man all my words that I shall speak unto thee receive in thine heart, and hear with thine ears....(again Jesus said...hear what the spirit is saying to the churches)

12....The the Spirit took me up and I heard behind me a voice of Great rushing, saying..Blessed be the Glory of the Lord from his place...

14....So the Spirit lifted me up and took me away, and I went in the bitterness, in the heat of My Spirit;
but the hand of the Lord was strong upon me...

He showes the Heavenly City and Temple....

Ezek. 48....And these are the goiing out of the city on the North side, four thousand and five hundred measures...

Now notice..the Gates..
And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel:
three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi....
and so on.....

This is just like the New City New Jerusalem coming down from God in Revelations..
the same vision that John saw...
It is the Heavenly City...New Jerusalem...not an earthly city

Ezekiel saw the same city that God Showed John in Revelation....it is not Jerusalem of today....It is the New Heavenly City coming down from God......This is What Abraham sought for....A city whose builder and maker is God...

If you will study Ezekiel....and watch the words...you will see it is a Vision......from God...Just like John saw in Revelation.....
John also saw that the twelve Tribes are the Gates....12 gates....
and Now in the new Covenant....we see that the 12 apostles are the Foundation...stones

It is the New City Coming Down from God....

bb (please look over my mistakes...)
I'm getting old.....and I would like for some young believers to see....what the Lord has shown me...

bb

by **1whowaits** on Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:25 pm

While we are described as the temple of the Holy Spirit, there is no indication that there cannot be a literal physical temple at the same time christians are present, there is no idication that we are to reject the literal, physical temple. Christians, the temple of the Holy Spirit, gathered repeatedly in the physical temple after Pentecost, in Acts 2. If the temple were to be rejected why would the church gather in the temple?

If the temple were to be rejected, why did Jesus spend significant time in the literal, physical temple? Jesus called His body the temple and yet went to the literal, physical temple. Jesus valued the temple, He literally drove out the money changers and called the temple his 'Father's house'. When Jesus was crucified, the temple was not destroyed, only the veil was torn in two, signifying that those who believed had direct access to the Father, not that the temple should be rejected.

Isa 2 indicates that there will be a temple on the mount in Jerusalem during the millenium. Zech 14 indicates that all nations will come to Jerusalem to worship Jesus and celebrate the feast of Tabernacles, and sacrifices will be made. If the temple is to be rejected why is it present when Jesus rules the earth?

What Rev 11 and 2 Thess 3 describe is a literal, physical temple, it is not symbolic or figurative, and it is called the temple of God. The AC can take over a literal, physical building, he cannot take over the body of Christ. The AC does not have the power to cast out the Holy Spirit, and any who accept the AC are not part of the body of Christ, in whom the Holy Spirit dwells.

Ezek does describe a literal, physical temple, but Ezek does not describe the temple in the New Jerusalem because there is no temple in the New Jerusalem as Rev 21 states, the Father and the Son are the temple in the New Jerusalem.

by **Seeker** on Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:35 am

1whowaits couldn't have said it better myself.

Peace,
Seeker

by **Mrs. B** on Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:15 am

Not God's Temple!

What Rev 11 and 2 Thess 3 describe is a literal, physical temple, it is not symbolic or figurative, and it is called the temple of God. The AC can take over a literal, physical building, he cannot take over the body of Christ. The AC does not have the power to cast out the Holy Spirit, and any who accept the AC are not part of the body of Christ, in whom the Holy Spirit dwells.
--------------

He cannot take over the body of Christ....

When we believe lies....and we follow a false Christ....by what we believe......then we are denying Jesus and we are following a false christ.......and we allow error to live in us...a false christ or a/c

The A/C does not have the power to cast out the Holy Spirit.....that is true...
but he can deceive the believer....he can lie and many willl follow him......

That is why we must always seek truth

Remeber Jesus said......Depart from me ye workers of iniquity....I never knew you...

They said Lord Lord didn't we do all these thing in your name....and He said I never Knew you...

these were church people......and Jesus said I never Knew You....

So to me.....This means we must have a Personnel Relationship with Jesus...

Today.....people think if they go to Church....pay their tithes....and be faithful to their church...then they are Saved.....this is one of the great deceptions of today....Church Membership......The church does not save you...
We are Saved because of our Knowing Jesus.....having a personnel relationship with Him...

We are told by Jesus to Teach His Doctrine....but today we are follow man's doctrine...

If you join a church....you have to agree to their teachings....and follow their laws and by laws....
Church membership does not save you.....Jesus said...You must be born AGAIN....

This is what I mean when I say....the a/c is in the Church....The Old Babylon church system...
That is why we are Called out.....Come out from her and be separate....
God is calling us out of the false teaching of false teachers....in to the True body of Christ....
Our Bodies are where the true Christ lives when we walk in truth...and the a/c spirit has no power over truth...
Not in the Temple of Christ the true believers...

This is how we allow the a/c to take over the church...

The AC does not have the power to cast out the Holy Spirit.....
This is true....He can not take over my body or life unless....I allow it...
How do I allow it....by believing a lie

We must be seekers and willing to believe the Truth....Jesus is the Truth...

when we believe a lie...... then we allow the devil to have control of our lives...and he takes over and lives in us...believing false teachings...

Jesus said....If it were possible even the very elect will be deceived.....
We must Love Truth and Follow truth......in all things
Jesus said I Am the Truth and the Way....

Now 1whowaits.....I don't understand all things...but I do know that the Temple in Ezekiel and the Temple that John sees....is the New City the Heavenly City coming down.....They both are the same....except John sees more..
This is the Revelation that Jesus Gives John....and it is for the Church...

Now...I don't believe their will be a temple built....like the temple in the past....
their is no scripture of any new earthly temple......
The Temple in Ezekiel and Revelation is the Same Temple...
and the Temple in Zechariah 6:12, 13 is the Church...the Temple that Jesus Builds by His Holy Spirit...The body of Christ on the earth today......

We must have spiritual eyes and ears....
We are all seeking the Lord....and Seeking Truth....
No one person has it all.....

Colossians 3: 1....If ye then be risen with Christ...seek those things which are above..Where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God..

2....Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth...

3...For ye are dead...and your life is hid with Christ in God..

4...When Christ who is our life, shall appear then shall ye also appear with him in Glory..

bb

by **Seeker** on Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:25 am

Hi Mrs. B,

But I don't see the answer to my question. Here I'll ask it again.

Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

How can "them" worship within our bodies? Who are the "them"?

Peace,
Seeker

by **Resurrection Torchlight** on Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:03 pm

Mrs. B I have to respectfully disagree with you- True believers who walk by the spirit will not be deceived by Satan, those who are told "I never knew you" were never believers to begin with hence the word NEVER.

And reading Ezekiel- you will see that there most definately is a literal temple in fact I did a study and here is all that is said about this temple:

Called by new name:
The City of Righteousness- A faithful city - Isaiah 1:26
City of the Lord- Isaiah 60:14
Hephzibah (My delight is in her), Beulah (Married) - Isaiah 62:4
Sought out, a city not forsaken – Isaiah 62:12
The Lord is there- Ezekiel 48:35
Temple mount- chief of mountains called Mountain of the Lord Isaiah 2:3 Most holy- Ezekiel 43:12,Micah 4:1-2
The place of my Sanctuary, the place of my feet- Isaiah 60:13, 66:1, Ezekiel 43:7, 37:26
A temple will be built- Ezekiel chapter 40-42
Glory of the Lord will fill the temple- Ezekiel 43: 2-5
Jerusalem- The throne of the Lord- Jeremiah 3:17, Ezekiel 37:27, 43:7, Micah 4:7
Gates open continually- Isaiah 60:11, Revelation 21:25
The Ark of the Covenant no longer remembered it will not be remade- Jeremiah 3:16
Over Mount Zion will be a cloud by day, smoke and flaming fire by night- Isaiah 4:5
A shelter for shade by day a refuge and protection from storm and rain - Isaiah 4:6
Everyone left in Jerusalem will be called Holy, those recorded for life (priests and ministers) Isaiah 4:3, 33:15,
Isaiah 60:21, 62:6, 62:12, 66:21
A remnant will return- Isaiah 10:21, 49:22, 66:20, 60:4, Jeremiah 3:14-15, 23:3, 24:6-7, 30:3, 31: 8-16,
Jeremiah 32:37, Ezekiel 14:22, 20:41-42, 28:25, 39:27, Zephaniah 3:12-13
Uncircumcised and unclean no longer enter Jerusalem- Isaiah 52:1
Joyful shouting, everlasting joy, no more sorrow- Isaiah 30:19, 35:10, 60:20, 61:3,7, 65:19, 66:13,
Zechariah 8:19, Zephaniah 3:14
Highway of holiness from Egypt to Assyria– Isaiah 11:16, 19:23, 35:8, 62:10
Judges restored- Isaiah 1:26, Ezekiel 44:24
The Lord will judge between nations- Isaiah 2:4, 16:5, 51:5, Micah 4:3
The Lord alone exalted- Isaiah 45:14-17, 49:26, Zechariah 14:9
The Law and the Word will go forth- Isaiah 2:3, 51:4, 66:23
Sacrifices will be conducted- Ezekiel chapter 43-46
Year of Jubilee will be kept- Ezekiel 46:17
The Mosaic feasts will be kept (except for the Day of Atonement)- Ezekiel 45:18-25
New Atonement law- Ezekiel 45:18-20
Peace not war- Isaiah 2:4, 16:4, 43:17, 60:18, Jeremiah 32:37, Zechariah 14:11, Ezekiel 28:26,
Micah 4:4,Zephaniah 3:15
Nations will stream to Jerusalem and bring their wealth- Isaiah 2:3, 11:10, 45:14, 60:5-11, Revelation 21:26
Israel will rule over their oppressors, who will serve them as captives- Isaiah 14:2, 49:23, 60:10-14
Glory of God will be its light source- Isaiah 60:3, 61:19, 60:19, Revelation 21:24
Geographical changes:
The deserts will bloom- Isaiah 35:1, 51:3
Water will flow in new places- Isaiah 35:6-7, 41:18, 43:20, 44:3 (spiritual water)
Living water will restore water sources- Zechariah 14:8, Ezekiel chapter 47, Joel 3:18
Zion lifted up- Isaiah 2:2, Zechariah 14:10
Zion restored- Ezekiel 36:33-36
Trees for healing-Ezekiel 47:12
Mount of Olives split, large valley created- Zechariah 14:4
Changes in the nature of animals (carnivorous animals eat grass) - Isaiah 11:6-7, 65:25
Healing of handicaps- Isaiah 35:5-6 9 (may be referring to spiritual handicaps)
Children will be born in Zion (on earth) - Isaiah 65:22
Those who live in Zion will live long lives (some will die) Isaiah 65:20, 22
Those who dwell in Zion will build their own houses and grow their own food –Isaiah 65:21
Money will still be in use- Jeremiah 32:43-44, Ezekiel 45:10-12 (Shekel)
The land will be divided among the tribes of Israel- Ezekiel chapters 47-48

The city of New Jerusalem does not reside on earth until after the judgment and here is what is said about it

Revelation 21:10-21
10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
11 having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper.
12 It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel.
13 There were three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 The one who spoke with me had a gold measuring rod to measure the city, and its gates and its wall.
16 The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width; and he measured the city with the rod, fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal.
17 And he measured its wall, seventy-two yards, according to human measurements, which are also angelic measurements.
18 The material of the wall was jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass.
19 The foundation stones of the city wall were adorned with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation stone was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald;
20 the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, topaz; the tenth, chrysoprase; the eleventh, jacinth; the twelfth, amethyst.
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was a single pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.

No more death or Hades- Revelation 20:14, 21:4
Sky will vanish, Earth will wear out like a garment (New heaven and new earth) - Isaiah 51:6, 65:17, Revelation 21:1
The city of New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to the New earth- Revelation 21:2
New Jerusalem is the bride- the wife of the Lamb- Revelation 21:9
Tabernacle of God among men- Revelation 21:3
Throne of God and the Lamb are in it- Revelation 22:3
No Temple in it- God and the Lamb are the temple Revelation 21:22
No sun or moon in the city- the glory of God illuminates it, the Lamb is the Lamp- Revelation 21:23
Always daytime- Never night- Revelation 21:25, 22:5
Only the redeemed enter- Revelation 21:27
River of life flows from the Throne- Revelation 22:1
Tree of life is there- Revelation 22:2, 14
Paradise is there- Rev 2:7
Street of transparent gold- Revelation 21:21
Palm trees will grow there- Revelation 7:9
No more hunger or thirst- Rev 7:16
No more sorrow or pain- Revelation 7:17, Revelation 21:4

Eternal inheritance (based on the letters to the seven churches)

Revelation 21:7
7 “He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

1. Tree of life- Revelation 2:7
2. Crown of life- Revelation 2:10
3. Hidden Manna- Revelation 2:17
4. A new name- Revelation 2:17
5. Authority to rule nations- Revelation 2:26-27
6. The morning star- Revelation 2:28
7. White garments- Revelation 3:5
8. Christ will confess their name before the Father and His angels- Revelation 3:5
9. Kept from the hour of testing- Revelation 3:10
10. Become a pillar in God’s temple- Revelation 3:12
11. Have the name of God, the name of New Jerusalem, and the new name of Christ written on them- Revelation 3:21
12. Reign with Christ- Revelation 3:21

These are two separate distinct places- Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God- the eternal kingdom:

1 Corinthians 15:50-53
50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Those who are caught up (raptured) will be changed, they will put on immortality- so how could there be mortals residing alongside the immortal when Paul says that they cannot inherit the imperishable kingdom??? Isaiah tells us that there will be mortals in the earthly Jerusalem:

Isaiah 65:20
20 “No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days,
Or an old man who does not live out his days;
For the youth will die at the age of one hundred
And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred
Will be thought accursed.

And there will be SIN offerings

Ezekiel 43:21-27
21 ‘You shall also take the bull for the sin offering, and it shall be burned in the appointed place of the house, outside the sanctuary.
22 ‘On the second day you shall offer a male goat without blemish for a sin offering, and they shall cleanse the altar as they cleansed it with the bull.
23 ‘When you have finished cleansing it, you shall present a young bull without blemish and a ram without blemish from the flock.
24 ‘You shall present them before the Lord, and the priests shall throw salt on them, and they shall offer them up as a burnt offering to the Lord.
25 ‘For seven days you shall prepare daily a goat for a sin offering; also a young bull and a ram from the flock, without blemish, shall be prepared.
26 ‘For seven days they shall make atonement for the altar and purify it; so shall they consecrate it.
27 ‘When they have completed the days, it shall be that on the eighth day and onward, the priests shall offer your burnt offerings on the altar, and your peace offerings; and I will accept you,’ declares the Lord God.”

Ezekiel 44:27-29
27 “On the day that he goes into the sanctuary, into the inner court to minister in the sanctuary, he shall offer his sin offering,” declares the Lord God.
28 “And it shall be with regard to an inheritance for them, that I am their inheritance; and you shall give them no possession in Israel—I am their possession.
29 “They shall eat the grain offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering; and every devoted thing in Israel shall be theirs.

Ezekiel 46:19-20
19 Then he brought me through the entrance, which was at the side of the gate, into the holy chambers for the priests, which faced north; and behold, there was a place at the extreme rear toward the west.
20 He said to me, “This is the place where the priests shall boil the guilt offering and the sin offering and where they shall bake the grain offering, in order that they may not bring them out into the outer court to transmit holiness to the people.”

So the place where the immortal are caught up to- no matter what rapture view you hold- is not the same place that resides on earth during the Millennium. One is earthly one is heavenly. One is perishable and one is imperishable.
There is no way that mortals can inherit the immortal city until they themselves are immortal and clearly according to Isaiah they are mortal. Also why would there need to be sin and guilt offerings in New Jerusalem where the immortal live?

Hebrews tells us that God's throne is in the heavenly Tabernacle, which served as the pattern for the earthly.

Hebrews 8:1-6
1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.
3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer.
4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law;
5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.”
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

Hebrews also tells us that those OT faithful were looking for the heavenly city built by God

Hebrews 11:13-16
13 All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.
14 For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own.
15 And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return.
16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, [u]a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them. [/u]

Someone posted earlier that the Temple in Ezekiel is one that was proposed only if Israel is ashamed:

Ezekiel 43:11
11 “If they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the house, its structure, its exits, its entrances, all its designs, all its statutes, and all its laws. And write it in their sight, so that they may observe its whole design and all its statutes and do them.

The implication was that because Israel wasn't ashamed that they didn't build the temple and never will. This is false, because God's word tells us that they will one day be ashamed and He will deliver them

Ezekiel 6:8-9
8 “However, I will leave a remnant, for you will have those who escaped the sword among the nations when you are scattered among the countries.
9 “Then those of you who escape will remember Me among the nations to which they will be carried captive, how I have been hurt by their adulterous hearts which turned away from Me, and by their eyes which played the harlot after their idols; and they will loathe themselves in their own sight for the evils which they have committed, for all their abominations.

Ezekiel 16:60-63
60 “Nevertheless, I will remember My covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you.
61 “Then you will remember your ways and be ashamed when you receive your sisters, both your older and your younger; and I will give them to you as daughters, but not because of your covenant.
62 “Thus I will establish My covenant with you, and you shall know that I am the Lord,
63 so that you may remember and be ashamed and never open your mouth anymore because of your humiliation, when I have forgiven you for all that you have done,” the Lord God declares.

Jeremiah 50:4-5
4 “In those days and at that time,” declares the Lord, “the sons of Israel will come, both they and the sons of Judah as well; they will go along weeping as they go, and it will be the Lord their God they will seek.
5 “They will ask for the way to Zion, turning their faces in its direction; they will come that they may join themselves to the Lord in an everlasting covenant that will not be forgotten.

Jeremiah 31:18-20
18 “I have surely heard Ephraim grieving,
‘You have chastised me, and I was chastised,
Like an untrained calf;
Bring me back that I may be restored,
For You are the Lord my God.
19 ‘For after I turned back, I repented;
And after I was instructed, I smote on my thigh;
I was ashamed and also humiliated
Because I bore the reproach of my youth.’
20 “Is Ephraim My dear son?
Is he a delightful child?
Indeed, as often as I have spoken against him,
I certainly still remember him;
Therefore My heart yearns for him;
I will surely have mercy on him,” declares the Lord.

So Israel will one day be ashamed, they will one day be forgiven and Ezekiel's temple will be built.

RT

by **lamb7** on Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:42 pm

Thank you Resurrection Torchlight! Excellent post...quite frankly nail on head.

by **habag** on Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:17 am

Shalom,

No, Ez's temple will never be built. I have explained why already in this thread.

habag

by **1whowaits** on Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:15 am

habag, God ususally does not place a large, detailed description of something in prophetic scripture that will never see fulfillment just to take up space, based on the precedents in scripture the Ezekiel temple will be built at some point. As the scripture does describe a 'temple of God' during the latter half of the 70th week and during the millenium, it is highly likely that one of those temples will be based on the plan in Ezekiel. We all may have our own views but the straightforward, logical view would be that what is described in Ezek will be fulfilled at some point.

by **habag** on Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:12 pm

HI,

God told Ezekel to show Israel the plan. Again, this was intruction on re-building the temple after the return from the Babylonian exile. And that they would suceed 'if' they were truely repentant, Ez 42:9-12. They were not obedient.

Now, certianly it is possible those who wish to rebuild the temple today will want to use this as the pattern. I do not know. But this temple will not be God's temple, in the Trib or in the 1000K.

A temple and blood offering is the 'past'. We have the reality today. and there is no need for any 'memorial' temple or offerings. ALL has been fulfilled in Christ.

habag

by **1whowaits** on Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:58 pm

Habag, i would agree that the 'sin' offering is in the past, but there is nothing to indicate that the temple is only in the past and should be rejected. Jesus called His body the temple, while He went to the literal temple which He called His Father's house. Paul called christians the temple of the Holy Spirit, while the literal temple still existed and Paul worshipped there when he could (when the Jews were not trying to kill him).

And as 2 Thess 2 and Rev 11 call the future temple the 'temple of God', that is most likely what it is considered to be, otherwise the scripture would be in error. (the temple defiled by Antiochus Epiphanes was still considered God's temple even though it had been taken over, as the future temple will be)

by **habag** on Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:29 pm

HI,

If you are correct, then why does the temple not exist 'forever'? One day there will be no temple, even though it is spoken of as always existing. But the people of God, who are truely the 'house of God', do abide forever.

I hold to 'fullness theology'. Jesus is the fulness. All prophecy find their fulness in HIm. When Scripture speaks of God always having a son of David to sit on his throne, this finds its fulfillment in Christ. When it speaks of always having the Levites to offer up burnt offerings, this finds its fulfillment in Christ. Likewise, when it speaks, as it does in Ez.37:26, of His sanctuary being in Israel's midst forever, this finds its fulness in Christ.

The temple of stone prophecied of the coming temple of the Body of Christ. And the present temple resides in a house of flesh which will soon finds its fulness at the appearing of our Lord. And just as we will not go back to a temple of stone, neither will we go back to a house of flesh, that which perishes.

habag

by **1whowaits** on Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:32 pm

Habag, my point is that the temple of the Holy Spirit, christians, and the temple of God, the temple of stone, can exist during the same period of time. Jesus called Himself the temple that would be raised up, while the temple was standing and He went into it. Paul states that we are God's temple while the temple existed and christians gathered there.

The temple of stone and the temple of our hearts are not mutually exclusive, they can exist at the same time and God can make use of both for His glory.

by **habag** on Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:22 pm

Hi,

Yuo are pointing to 'history'. There is often overlap in epochs. The writter of Hebrews spoken of the 'passing' of the temple, its fading away. Paul spoke of the glory fading from the Law. And not soon afterwards God removed that temple of stone. Its day had passed!

The temple which is coming is 'not God's temple'. It is 'called' God's temple because that is what people would understand. Why would the angel say, 'Go and measure that building they have built which they call the temple of God, but which is not.'

The temple of God. The temple of God. People want that which they can see and touch, just as in idolatry. The Jews treated the temple pf God, as well as the Ark, as an idol.

habag

by **1whowaits** on Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:07 pm

Actually it is the scripture, Rev 11 and 2 Thess 2, that calls the rebuilt temple the 'temple of God', the scripture means what it says. And Isa 2 indicates that Jesus will reign from the temple in Jerusalem during the millenium, there is clearly a purpose for the temple in the future.

by **habag** on Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:48 pm

Iwhowaits,

As you like it. I guess Wewillwaits to see! I do respect your opinion. I just do not agree.

habag

by **Resurrection Torchlight** on Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:02 am

Consider the following-

Ezekiel 37:21-28
21 “Say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;
22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations and no longer be divided into two kingdoms.
23 “They will no longer defile themselves with their idols, or with their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. And they will be My people, and I will be their God.
24 “My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd; and they will walk in My ordinances and keep My statutes and observe them.
25 “They will live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant, in which your fathers lived; and they will live on it, they, and their sons and their sons’ sons, forever; and David My servant will be their prince forever.
26 “I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever.
27 “My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people.
28 “And the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever.” ’ ”

Note how verse 24 says they (Israelites) will keep and observe God's Ordinances and statutes, what is this talking about?? It is talking about the Law of Moses.

Exodus 24:3
3 Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!”

Leviticus 19:37
37 ‘You shall thus observe all My statutes and all My ordinances and do them; I am the Lord.’ ” [/quote

Leviticus 20:22
22 ‘You are therefore to keep all My statutes and all My ordinances and do them, so that the land to which I am bringing you to live will not spew you out.

God is saying this will happen, not it might happen, The whole nation of Israel will be delivered, they will be cleansed by God, they will again be His people, they will live in Jerusalem (future) under one king, they will observe and keep God's ordinances and statutes, God will dwell among them, His sanctuary will be in their midst forever. His eternal sanctuary will be in their midst forever, only during the millennium it will reside over Jerusalem, while the temple building will reside on earth. You cannot just dismiss this prophecy and say it was supposed to have been built after the captivity if Israel repented, and now never will be, that is not what Ezekiel says. God didn't qualify the prophecy, He didn't give it an expiration date.

Ezekiel 43:1-12
1 Then he led me to the gate, the gate facing toward the east;
2 and behold, the glory of the God of Israel was coming from the way of the east. And His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory.
3 And it was like the appearance of the vision which I saw, like the vision which I saw when He came to destroy the city. And the visions were like the vision which I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell on my face.
4 And the glory of the Lord came into the house by the way of the gate facing toward the east.
5 And the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house.
6 Then I heard one speaking to me from the house, while a man was standing beside me.
7 He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the sons of Israel forever. And the house of Israel will not again defile My holy name, neither they nor their kings, by their harlotry and by the corpses of their kings when they die,
8 by setting their threshold by My threshold and their door post beside My door post, with only the wall between Me and them. And they have defiled My holy name by their abominations which they have committed. So I have consumed them in My anger.
9 “Now let them put away their harlotry and the corpses of their kings far from Me; and I will dwell among them forever.
10 “As for you, son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and let them measure the plan.
11 “If they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the house, its structure, its exits, its entrances, all its designs, all its statutes, and all its laws. And write it in their sight, so that they may observe its whole design and all its statutes and do them.
12 “This is the law of the house: its entire area on the top of the mountain all around shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.

Ezekiel sees the vision of the Glory of the Lord filling the temple (house), how could he see something and record it for us if it will never happen???? You cannot proclaim this prophecy null and void just because it doesn't fit with your theology. It is going to happen, there will be a temple in the Millennium and yes according to this scripture there will be sin, guilt and peace offerings. Just like there was a merging of the ages during Christ's first coming. Why can't we expect a merging of ages again? The very idea that this precedent has been set, opens the door to the possibility that a similar merging could take place. Remember these prophecies are specifically for the nation of Israel, not for those gentiles who are in Christ. You will note that the only mention of gentiles are of those mortals that will remain on the earth that will bring their wealth and worship to Mount Zion.

I realize it is difficult to wrap your head around the idea that the law will be in practice. I am not sure that I even completely understand why this is, but according to Ezekiel it will be. And according to the law of sacrifice- sin and guilt offerings are prescribed and offered as an act of repentance and sanctification. IMO this means either one of two things, the age of grace ends with the reign of Christ on earth. Or there is a merging of grace and the law. It is unclear whether any more gentiles will be saved (in Christ) during the millennium, perhaps they will come to faith just as they did in the OT- by following the law of the Jews.

RT

by **Resurrection Torchlight** on Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:27 am

If you are correct, then why does the temple not exist 'forever'? One day there will be no temple, even though it is spoken of as always existing. But the people of God, who are truely the 'house of God', do abide forever.

I hold to 'fullness theology'. Jesus is the fulness. All prophecy find their fulness in HIm. When Scripture speaks of God always having a son of David to sit on his throne, this finds its fulfillment in Christ. When it speaks of always having the Levites to offer up burnt offerings, this finds its fulfillment in Christ. Likewise, when it speaks, as it does in Ez.37:26, of His sanctuary being in Israel's midst forever, this finds its fulness in Christ.

The temple of stone prophecied of the coming temple of the Body of Christ. And the present temple resides in a house of flesh which will soon finds its fulness at the appearing of our Lord. And just as we will not go back to a temple of stone, neither will we go back to a house of flesh, that which perishes.

Just wanted to answer this question:

You are absolutely correct - Jesus is the fullness of the law, as we live in earthly bodies we are indeed the temple of the Holy Spirit on earth. We serve as the temple while no physical temple resides on earth. But one day those in Christ will be lifted from the earth, we will reside in heaven. (see revelation 7) Those multitudes that John sees that stand before the seat (throne) of God are those who were raptured/resurrected into the heavenly realm- to reside in New Jerusalem which is the heavenly city, which we have been building while on earth. The apostles laid the foundation, and we help build it while on earth. (I could preach a whole sermon on this idea alone). When we leave the earth we are no longer the temple of the holy spirit. That is our function as we live in mortal bodies.

The millennial temple will again see the glory of the Lord come into it, it will serve and function as the temple of the the Holy Spirit- embodied in Christ Himself. This earthly temple will not last forever- it will be burned up in the destruction of the earth at the judgment (Rev. 20/21) But the heavenly eternal new Jerusalem is the eternal half of the sanctuary that will abide forever. Just like we as the temple of the holy spirit have both a permanent part- our soul and a temporary part- our bodies. That which abides on this earth is temporal, while that which is heavenly is eternal.

RT