Unreported News, Commentary, Resources and Discussion of Bible Prophecy
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SueAnn wrote:If/when Israel destroys Iran's Nuclear capability, it will not be the first time Israel had to do this to a neighboring country. I can't remember the year or the country, but Israel made a successful pre-emptive strike before. They did not need America's help then. They do not need it now.
I no longer believe that Gog/Magog is Russia. It is Turkey. I do not know what Russia's role is in the last 7 years of this age, but Gog/Magog is not Russia.
The USA is so tied up with two Middle East wars that we just do not have the national strength to counter Iran and they know it.
D4Christ wrote:I do not think it is likely that gog will attack Israel this year, assuming that these attacks are based on the prophecies of Ezekiel 38/39/37. What I do think may happen soon though is that thru the strenthening of the EU and their Barcelona process, Israel and some of her enemies may come to an agreement of peace based on the exisiting ENP agreements already in place. These agreements promise protection, peace and security to all of its members...that includes Israel and Palestine.
If a peace or truce was to be announced based on these existing agreements, confirming the covenant (agreement) in place currently, then the next events I would expect to see are Jewish religous leaders allowed to perform some rituals on the mount and these rituals being stopped (in June 2010) 3.5 years from the start of the 70th week by the AC.
This would seem to fall in line with the scriptures that tell us 'they give assurances of peace, when there is no peace.' (Jeremiah 6 and 8) We could then expect the GT to be quickly followed by the DOL.
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Deirdre
Tevye wrote:The USA is so tied up with two Middle East wars that we just do not have the national strength to counter Iran and they know it.
Th interesting thing is Iran
is sandwiched between the two U.S. war areas.
This could be destiny,
(how the armies of the U.S. were put in place
before the need for Israel to go against Iran)
and if Israel goes after Iran
and Iran gets ulgy against Israel
I imagine the US will move in
from both sides of Iran
and that could be,
just what the U.S. is waiting for.
Things could get very active, soon.
It seems like we're in the calm just before the storm
and it's all about to....
good4u wrote:D4Christ wrote:I do not think it is likely that gog will attack Israel this year, assuming that these attacks are based on the prophecies of Ezekiel 38/39/37. What I do think may happen soon though is that thru the strenthening of the EU and their Barcelona process, Israel and some of her enemies may come to an agreement of peace based on the exisiting ENP agreements already in place. These agreements promise protection, peace and security to all of its members...that includes Israel and Palestine.
If a peace or truce was to be announced based on these existing agreements, confirming the covenant (agreement) in place currently, then the next events I would expect to see are Jewish religous leaders allowed to perform some rituals on the mount and these rituals being stopped (in June 2010) 3.5 years from the start of the 70th week by the AC.
This would seem to fall in line with the scriptures that tell us 'they give assurances of peace, when there is no peace.' (Jeremiah 6 and 8) We could then expect the GT to be quickly followed by the DOL.
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Deirdre
Actually the strenghtening of the ENP has already taken place with the ENPI and it appears, at this point, to have no affect on the memeber states--at least not yet. So unless a false peace comes really, really fast, I don't see right now how the ENPI is the credible peace covenant since it has been in place since 1/1/07. So it appears we might need to consider something yet in the future.
D4Christ wrote:I understand where you are coming from, but I cannot help but think we still have time. The ENPI was intiated on 1/1/07 and is set to last 7 years...you have to admit that is a good start. But I also realize that hand shakes on agreements in that region of the world come and go, and now everyone seems desperate to achieve some type of peace. Scriptures say according to whatever version you read, 'he will confirm the covenant with many for one week' or 'he shall enter into a strong and firm covenant with the many for one week.' This confirmation came, according to some theories, when the ENPI was established because the language of the document actually states that it will strengthen the 7 year agreement that was already in existence.
The only other information we are given per Daniel is that at the midpoint, the agreement is broken and sacrifices stop. The scriptures do not indicate how long the sacrifices have been going on, or where in the first 3 1/2 period they begin, so I do not think we should assume how long the sacrifices last or when they should start. Our only concern is that they start and then stop.
Since we all know that Muslims would go nuts if Jewish religous leaders were allowed to perform any type of rituals on the Mount, it is conceivable...at least in my mind...that if in a gesture of good will sacrifices were allowed and then quickly stopped among muslim protests...
Either way, we cannot dismiss the ENPI until it has reached it's halfway mark...we've got to June 2010 to see if it bears fruit.
Can't wait....
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Deirdre
ACfrom Turkey wrote:Why is 7 years to clean up the mess proof that the attack will occur before the 70th week? I'm pretty sure that there are 1000 years following the 70th week.
So are you suggesting that they will be cleaning up the mess during the great tribulation and the judgment of God (day of the Lord)? They will be cleaning up during hailstorms, stinging "locusts", etc...?
It is not until the millenial reign that swords will be beat into plowshares and weapons burned since there will be no more learning the art of war.
mrgravyard49 wrote:One reason for Magog before the trib is ~~~~~~~~~~~It will take 7 years to clean up the mess..
mrgravyard49 wrote:For those who say The Rapture is to happen on the Feast of Trumpets, I question that because we are NOT to know the DAY or Hour and if we say Trumpets then we Know the DAY.
Rosh Hashanah is the "no man knows the day or hour" festival; it is
the celebration where the "last trump" is played; it is the
wedding ceremony; and it stands for many other things including
the "day of judgment" and "repentance."
ACfrom Turkey wrote:It is a very minor issue compared to the rest of the issues that face those who say Gog is not the AC. He will be cast from his grave. The AC is said to be killed or slain in many other passages. I know I'm not going to convince you 1whowaits so we will just wait until a person from the area sets up the aod (or at least his forces set it up) and then you will know. After this year passes with no Gog attack and especially when a covenant is confirmed will people then begin to consider that the European theory is past its time.
Spirit wrote:I sure wish I knew what exactly would initiate Isaiah 17....just over the past year, there have been quite a few moments that could have been the trigger...in my opinion....all the tension/hostility in Lebanon could explode beyond just a few heated exchanges, Golan Heights seems to be a significant issue which may be the trigger...I also know that Syria has hundreds of missiles pointed at Israel prepared for a strike (unless this has changed since late 2007).
We all know that Israel attacked Syria last year as well and bombed a clandestine nuke facility. Syria pretty much dropped off the radar screen for a while in an attempt to clean that up (and perhaps quietly prepare for a massive retaliation). They did vow retaliation, but it has been eerily quiet.
You can just feel the intensity and volatility of that region..it is extaordinary...but what is even more extraordinary, is that God is keeping things subdued for the most part. I honestly am shocked that things aren't in all out war by now...God has not allowed things to explode just yet.
But..soon He will allow things to unfold, and it is anyone's guess what will be the trigger...all I know is that it is quite obvious that the height of the tension is where it needs to be for anything to happen...it's all a matter of when God will release His restrictions.
1whowaits wrote:And it appears that the attack described in Joel 1 may have some association with the month of AV, the month of mourning and destruction. Whether Israel will attack Iran first or Iran, Syria and Lebanon will attack Israel first is not mentioned in scripture. But it would appear that there will be a future, devastating attack in Israel that will result in the destruction of Damascus and likely culminate in the battle of Gog-Magog.
Exit40 wrote:It seems we are much in agreement that Damascus is destroyed by Israel, but I am beginning to see it differently. I know I am a bit odd in my interpretations of Scripture, I just see things differenently sometimes.
So I am beginning to wonder if it is Israel that destroys Damascus.
Isa 17:3 The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria: they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the LORD of hosts.
If the fortified city that is destroyed is Tel Aiv, as 1whowaits suggests, then it would appear both cities are destroyed at the same time. Would this be a nuclear exchange between Iran and Israel ? If so, then Iran would have nukes in order to use them. The other theory I am trying to postulate is that both cities and surrounding areas are destroyed by Gog, whom I now believe is the AC, and also the islamic mahdi. In order for these cities to be destroyed simultaeously, there would have to be peace agreement between certainly Syria and Israel, and possibly also Egypt in the same vein. By this I think what I mean is that Syria ans Egypt will not agree to give their power to the Ac, they will want to honor the peace agreement, and will be destroyed by him while he is on his way to Jerusalem to establish his caliphate.
Isa 17:12 ¶ Woe to the multitude of many people, [which] make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, [that] make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters!
sa 17:13 The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but [God] shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.
Isa 17:14 And behold at eveningtide trouble; [and] before the morning he [is] not. This [is] the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.
These passages seem to indicate the attack of gog/magog to me, which I also believe is the battle art Armageddon, where the Lord destroys them in their place.
There is so much to the islamic paradigm/theory that has to be addressed, this is justs a small portion of it.
God Bless
David
Seeker wrote:Here's a research paper on the subject of Turkey identified as Gog. I have researched and found very similar results as the author lists.
Peace,
Seeker
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"SUMMARY
It has been shown on the basis of exegesis, hermeneutics, linguistics, and historical anthropology that, 1) Gomer cannot be Germany but rather Gimarrai, 2) Meshech cannot be Moscow but Mushki, 3) Tubal is not Tobol'sk but Tabal, 4) Gog is probably a personage, 5) Magog is unidentifiable except as a general reference ("land of Gog") to Asia Minor, 6) rosh is not a reference to a place but is to be translated "chief" or "head," and 7) the terms "north parts" and "north quarters" cannot mean Russia but, within Ezekiel's frame of reference, refer to modern Turkey.
What Ezekiel prophesied, then, is an end-time battle involving the following nations coming against Israel: 1) Turkey (Meshech, Tubal, Magog[?], Gomer, Togarmah; 2) Iran (Persia), 3) Sudan (Ethiopia or Cush), and 4) Libya.
FURTHER CONSIDERATIONS
Concerning Turkey
Precisely why Turkey (Anatolia, Asia Minor) is set forth in Ezekiel's prophecy under four names (Meshech, Tubal, Gomer and Togarmah) cannot be determined. Perhaps it points to some future political break-up of that area. Perhaps it is simply to clearly specify that the entire nation or land will be involved: west (Meshech), Central (Gomer), and east (Tubal and Togarmah).
Concerning the Nations Involved--And Those Who are Not
With Turkey, Iran, Libya and Sudan, Gog leads an Islamic coalition of nations against Israel: Turkey from the north, Iran from the east, Libya from the west and Sudan from the south.
Note also the nations who are (surprisingly!) absent: Egypt and Syria. Why? The only plausible answer is that they both have somehow been relegated to an inferior position militarily. This fits nicely into Daniel chapter 11 with both the King of the North (Syria) and the King of the South (Egypt) being destroyed by Antichrist.
View endnotes.
Copyright 1996 Fred Zaspel"
http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/e ... zekiel.htm
1whowaits wrote:While it is possible for Gog to occur this year, it appears that there is an event that occurs prior to Gog. In the list of nations at Gog-magog in Ezek, the nations immediately surrounding Israel, the ones most likely to attack Israel at this time, are conspicuously absent. But these nations, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Gaza (and perhaps Egypt), are described at the destruction of Damascus in Isa 17, Amos 1, Zech 9, Jer 49.
Isa 17 appears to make an association between the destruction of Damascus and Gog-magog, with Damascus occurring first. It would appear that the next event is the destruction of Damascus, which does not appear far off at this time.
And while it does appear that Gog-magog occurs after Damascus, it is not clear how long after Damascus' destruction Gog takes place. From Isa 17 it may be that Damascus occurs in the spring or summer, while from Joel 2 Gog appears to occur in the fall, while not necessarily in the same year.
Spirit wrote:This is a great discussion..
I too, am of the mindset that Isaiah 17 will occur before gog/magog, but be directly linked to the ezekiel 38-39 invasion. So..I see the destruction of damascus as the starting point for gog/magog. I have highlighted points from scripture which have helped me arrive at this idea..
Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city,
And it will be a ruinous heap.
2 The cities of Aroer are forsaken;[a]
They will be for flocks
Which lie down, and no one will make them afraid.
3 The fortress also will cease from Ephraim,
The kingdom from Damascus,
And the remnant of Syria;
They will be as the glory of the children of Israel,”
Says the LORD of hosts.
4 “ In that day it shall come to pass
That the glory of Jacob will wane,
And the fatness of his flesh grow lean.
5 It shall be as when the harvester gathers the grain,
And reaps the heads with his arm;
It shall be as he who gathers heads of grain
In the Valley of Rephaim.
6 Yet gleaning grapes will be left in it,
Like the shaking of an olive tree,
Two or three olives at the top of the uppermost bough,
Four or five in its most fruitful branches,”
Says the LORD God of Israel.
7 In that day a man will look to his Maker,
And his eyes will have respect for the Holy One of Israel.
At the end of this passage of Isaiah 17, it says in that day, man will look to his Maker and will have RESPECT FOR THE HOLY ONE of Israel.
Ezekiel 38:15 Then you will come from your place out of the far north, you and many peoples with you, all of them
riding on horses, a great company and a mighty army. 16 "You will come up against My people Israel like a
cloud, to cover the land. It will be in the latter days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may
know Me, when I am hallowed in you, O Gog, before their eyes." Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I
will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the LORD."
Similar language, but profound IMO. both events, Isaiah 17 and Gog/Magog scriptures speak to people recognizing, respecting, and knowing God Almighty through the process of these events unfolding.
Unless I am mistaken, few in this world respect the Lord and few recognize Him and His authority/sovereigty...so isaiah 17/gog/magog events both lead many actually recognize the Lord and respect Him. I am assuming this doesn't happen in such a profound way in any other event in the bible...just these two.
I hope I am making sense..I am a bit rushed, so this may not have been communicated well.
I just see a common denominator in both Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38-39,but I see Isaiah 17 happening first as Syria is not specifically mentioned in the battle of gog/magog.
savedbygrace wrote:But how can Israel 'know their God', yet commit such an abomination as to rebuild their temple and re-institute the animal sacrifices???
They can't, IMO. It doesn't go hand in hand with knowing Jesus.
I think the rebuilding of the temple will be done prior to Gog/Magog. Possibly some kind of agreement brought on by none other than JS himself.
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