The Shack

[quiverfullmom]

Has anyone read the book "The Shack?" What did you think of it from a theological standpoint? I think the story was wonderful but have issues with some of the ideas presented in it. But I have heard so many people say "This book changed my life." or "That was the most moving book I have ever read." My own mother being one of them. It's flying off the shelves at Mardel's and our church library. Any thoughts?

[InHim]

I'm looking for a mansion.

[kat]

I have it...and started reading it....but put it down. I was a little leary about the "life changing" claims and wasn't sure if this was one of those books that the goal is to begin a "movement" of sorts??:dunno:

[quiverfullmom]

Some things I was leery of were: the assertion by "God" that he did not begin the institution of marriage; and that there was no hierarchy within the trinity, when Jesus clearly states that he does what the Father directs him to do. I too felt that the author was trying to "start a movement" and that therefore he needed to be extra careful to be doctrinally sound.
My mom just thought it was a wonderfully moving story about the depths of God's love, and the lengths to which He would go to bring back one of His children. But she also wanted to pattern the relationship between she and I after the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit laid out in the book.

[kazbo]

I've read most of it, and like most books, I don't think anyone should be building their theology around it. He has some wonderful ways of presenting things and thinking outside the rigid boxes we tend to construct and that's what I've found most refreshing so far. Like anything else we read by any Christian author, eat the meat and throw out the bones.

My mom just thought it was a wonderfully moving story about the depths of God's love, and the lengths to which He would go to bring back one of His children.

Exactly. I think most of underestimate the depth of God's love for us and his tenderness toward us and that he's not just itching to push the big red "DESTRUCT" button on us and the earth as soon as he can.

Did you read the author's last blog post?

http://www.windrumors.com/43/the-beauty ... y-mystery/

[Lightseeker]

Hi quiverfullmom,

While I have not read this book, I have read several reviews of it, both positive and negative. Berit Kjos recently wrote a review posted on her website that I'll link to below. I have often found her information helpful. Hope you do too.
www.crossroad.to/articles2/08/shack.htm

Blessings...

[kazbo]

I personally would take any review of any book you're interested in with a big grain of salt, unless you know the reviewer personally and trust his/her judgment. I've seen many books denounced because the reviewer did not fully understand the message but thought they did and had to warn the rest of us.

For instance, the author of the review referenced in the last post does not seem to understand that this book is [partly about] denouncing religiosity. Christianity as Religious Institution. All the people who go to to church every Sunday and do everything they're "supposed" to do and yet are whitewashed tombs. The point being that if there is no living, breathing relationship with the God you claim you worship, you have nothing but a system of rules, an appearance of godliness and nothing more.

Like I said, I would not build theology around this book, and any book (even those written by "top" Christians, as if there is such a thing) needs to be read with discernment. This one is no different. I just hate to see people so often throw out the baby with the bathwater and miss some amazing gems because they will not dig through the coal to find them. Not that this book is coal, but you know what I mean.

[Lightseeker]

Hey kazbo,
I totally get where you are coming from with regards to the denouncing of religiosity. For the record, I actually came out of the I.C. a few years ago.

[chatty-kathi]

Tim Challies is a respected author and blogger and has written a lengthy PDF about The Shack at http://www.challies.com/archives/book-r ... t-here.php .

The book, which is advertised on Elijah’s List (N.A.R.), has the theme of dominionism running through it.

There is only one book, the Bible, that is safe to read because the apostasy is so widespread. Please don’t take this as a slight, but in total sincerity. There truly is a famine of hearing the Word of God. In order to spot the false, you have to be know the true.

The world is being conditioned through movies, books, people, the media, politics, religion, medicine, etc., to believe the end time lie. That lie is that we are “gods” and that we need to take back and save the planet, because everything is divine.

Kazbo, this is your interpretation of what they mean by denouncing religiosity:

For instance, the author of the review referenced in the last post does not seem to understand that this book is [partly about] denouncing religiosity. Christianity as Religious Institution. All the people who go to to church every Sunday and do everything they're "supposed" to do and yet are whitewashed tombs. The point being that if there is no living, breathing relationship with the God you claim you worship, you have nothing but a system of rules, an appearance of godliness and nothing more.

This movement is about deconstructing Christianity and those who hold to the true faith. This is in preparation for the coming persecution of the saints.

[Abiding in His Word]

Berit Kjos recently wrote a review posted on her website that I'll link to below. I have often found her information helpful. Hope you do too.
www.crossroad.to/articles2/08/shack.htm

Thanks for that link, Lightseeker. I found her review most helpful also.

[Abiding in His Word]

For the record, I actually came out of the I.C. a few years ago.

I may have missed this in the thread, but may I ask what the "I.C." is Lightseeker? Thanks!

[texasgal]

I hate this book. My neighbor asked me to read it and I did. I would not recommend this book to anyone who doesn't have a strong grasp of scripture. I have so many pages marked with outright views that contradict scripture.

Why does anyone ever need a new way to look at God? Take God out of the box? This book is about the mystery of the Trinity and how God loves us. Guess what, so does the bible.


The writing is even so-so. Do not read. Do not give to other people.

[kazbo]

I totally get where you are coming from with regards to the denouncing of religiosity. For the record, I actually came out of the I.C. a few years ago.

Whee! Nice to meet a fellow backslider. Oops - I mean, kindred spirit (I'm sure you're familiar with how people view us)

Thanks!

[kazbo]

Why does anyone ever need a new way to look at God? Take God out of the box?

Because most of us don't realize that we have many notions of God that were given us to by our churches, our families, and our culture that are not necessarily scriptural - being raised with them we tend to naturally accept them as true. Someone raised with an authoritarian father in a "fire and brimstone" church will see God as one who will come down on him like a ton of bricks if he makes as much as one misstep. Forget mercy, "you sinner!" It can take years to shed the incorrect teaching, and that doesn't include the years it takes to even become aware of it.

I knew I'd be in the minority here but I still find this thread discouraging. I'm all for discerning heresy, but it's possible to swing way to the other end of the pendulum and see deliberate heresy in everything rather than just realizing that the godliest man is imperfect and will write or say things that are wrong sometimes. I mean, isn't this belaboring the obvious? Everything (besides the Bible) is a mix, which is why we should read with discernment. And we need to remember that we all take things in through our personal filters, which is why some people will see dominionism while most others will not.

This movement is about deconstructing Christianity and those who hold to the true faith.

If you knew this author better (or the reviewers did), you would know how laughable it is to think he has an agenda at all, let alone one to "deconstruct Christianity".


And Abiding, "IC" is the Institutional Church.

[Abiding in His Word]

And Abiding, "IC" is the Institutional Church.

Ahhh....thanks, kazbo.

[texasgal]

Well here's my question about the author... why should I think that after all these thousands of years this guy finally has the great mystery of the Trinity figured out.

I read his bio on his site and I really don't see from where he gets his authority to teach the world a new way to view scripture.

Just like that Tolle guy on Oprah...why in the world would someone actually believe that stuff his sells is true is beyond me. Who in the world is he anyway and why would millions just blindly except that what he sees as truth is actually true? People are sooooo easy. They are looking for the easiest way to worship something (most of the time it's themselves).

If you have had the wrong traits of God thrust upon you from a bad pastor or from even your own family, the best thing you can do for yourself is read the Word and pray for God to show you in his Word who He is.

[Pretzelogical]

Once I understand the prophets, especially the writings of Jeremiah, then maybe I will long for the views of a pop author. In the meantime, I have sooooo much studying to do! May we all grow in our love and knowlege of Christ from feeding on His word, and not the next "Christian" book!

The author/critics of the church sing a familiar song... "We don't need no education. We don't need no thought control. Teacher, leave them kids alone." Agreed, that is not what the true church is all about. But each man doing what is right in his own eyes brought judgment to flood the whole earth! We need teachers of the Bible, not the theories of men, the very thing these authors denounce. So ironic.

The "meat first" category satisfies and is so delicious! "How can you have any pudding ifin' ya don't eat your meat?" Once I can chew, swallow, and digest the reall meat of scripture, then I'll look forward to real pudding, made with whole milk, cooked slowly to thicken...I'll skip the made with nutra-sweet and skim milk instant-pudding variety.

Pass the salt of the earth this way to teach me the book of Jeremiah!

1 Corinthians 3:2
I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,

Hebrews 5:12
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Hebrews 5:13
For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.

1 Peter 2:2
like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
1 Peter 2:1-3 (in Context) 1 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)

[Lightseeker]

Glad you found her review helpful, Abiding (and I'm sorry for taking so long to respond). Thanks for jumping in, kazbo - and hugs to you too.

[JeanKNC]

Saw the topic this morning "The Shack"

and ... quoting this excellent truth: Like anything else we read by any Christian author, eat the meat and throw out the bones.

A friend gave me this book to read about two months ago.
I read it through in two days time. I was simply touched by the
'marrow' there .. HE LOVES US ... aside the authors 'way of telling
the story' (characters, genders) -- I went out and bought four
copies because I know quite a few souls who could benefit to
know THEY ARE LOVED ENDLESSLY by their PAPA ...
I'm sure they may not appreciate it the way I did - now, after
reading this topic. (individual tastes prevail!)

"Poetic license" perhaps - but it is fiction aferall -- and the
best thing is .. LOVE IS LOVE ..and HIS IS THE BEST (it's
why we LOVE)

Thanks - Jean

[kazbo]

Thank you, Jean, and by the way:



Yes, I think that was one of the best conversations in the book, where God says "you can't trust me because deep down, you don't believe I'm good."

To trust him you have to believe that he LOVES you and IS good. And so many people don't really believe he loves them; and when they do really realize how much he does, they can rest in that love and joy in it, and believe in it when things are falling apart around them.

For twenty years I thought I knew that he loves me (John 3:16, right?); but in the past couple of years I've come to understand more, with my heart rather than my head, that he really does! When you truly know that you are loved deeply and passionately and without limit by a perfect and beautiful God (with whom you'll spend eternity!), it seems everything falls into place, and it's so much easier to leave things behind that were holding you down. It frees you, and soothes you, and fills you with joy and wonder.

Like what Emeth the Calormene said in C.S. Lewis' "The Last Battle": "And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me, Beloved..."

I had a dear friend who for years felt that God was using him as his whipping boy. He knew what the Bible said about God loving him, but he just couldn't accept (because of his long-standing personal situation) that God really did have his best interests in mind and was working them out every day. Reading a story like this one could have helped give him a new perspective on his situation, especially considering he felt most of the same emotions Mack felt.

Anyway, thanks for chiming in.

[Abiding in His Word]

I haven't read the book, but I am a believer that God can/does reach an unbeliever in ways that we, as believers, can't fathom.

I always remember a teacher relating a story of when he was in the Navy, on leave with his friends, and in a saloon drinking up a storm. The piano player broke out in a chorus of "The Old Rugged Cross" and that did it for him.

I think we, who are used to the meat of the Word, sometimes under estimate the milk that God can use to feed His unbelieving children.

[Maryland_Mom]

This is my first post out of the introduction area, so be gentle with me.... :mrgreen:

I have not read the book, but have been listening to many whom I know love the Lord discuss it from both perspectives (for and against). I guess my issue is when authors create God as a "character" and put words, thoughts, ideas into his mouth, so to speak. The Bible is the revealing of Him, His character, etc. Books in this genre almost seem to make a caricature of God, and I often wonder if reading paraphrased, invented interactions with God, actually make it more difficult for people to seek Him out and relate to Him in His ways and on His terms. I guess, for me personally, it doesn't seem to be a very straight line to the Truth: a fictional character, in a fictional story, interacting with a fictional depiction of what is, in essence, a fictional God (in the sense that the Lord didn't actually say, do, etc. any of these "coversations")..... kwim?

My 2 cents, for what's it's worth........

Becca

[Maryland_Mom]

This is my first post out of the introduction area, so be gentle with me.... :mrgreen:

I have not read the book, but have been listening to many whom I know love the Lord discuss it from both perspectives (for and against). I guess my issue is when authors create God as a "character" and put words, thoughts, ideas into his mouth, so to speak. The Bible is the revealing of Him, His character, etc. Books in this genre almost seem to make a caricature of God, and I often wonder if reading paraphrased, invented interactions with God, actually make it more difficult for people to seek Him out and relate to Him in His ways and on His terms. I guess, for me personally, it doesn't seem to be a very straight line to the Truth: a fictional character, in a fictional story, interacting with a fictional depiction of what is, in essence, a fictional God (in the sense that the Lord didn't actually say, do, etc. any of these "conversations")..... kwim?

My 2 cents, for what's it's worth........

Becca

(edited for spelling)

[Lightseeker]

Welcome, Becca! It's good to have you here.

[texasgal]

Yea Becca! You said it much better than I did.

[JayCee]

Welcome Becca, have we been gentle so far?

I agree with what you're saying. I think when we read fiction we can tend to switch off the alarm bells and not put the barriers up to untruths that we then unconsciously accept.

I've seen this happen with some who are reading the Left Behind series books - they also forget that it is actually fiction.

[Pretzelogical]

Maryland Mom!
...and to your little cat too!

(May I, and is it possible to copy-cat your cat as she is a copy of my katy kitten who stole my heart years ago.)

[Maryland_Mom]

Welcome Becca, have we been gentle so far?

I agree with what you're saying. I think when we read fiction we can tend to switch off the alarm bells and not put the barriers up to untruths that we then unconsciously accept.

I've seen this happen with some who are reading the Left Behind series books - they also forget that it is actually fiction.

Very gentle, LOL, thank you! And you make a good point about the Left Behind series. I think that series, as much well deserved criticism as it has received, is a good example of Abiding's earlier point in which God can use unexpected things to reach people. I absolutely agree with the wisdom of keep the meat, spit the bones, etc. but with so many believers today depending on radio, "studies", books, commentaries, etc. to define what they believe, I think that many worship men's "portrayals and interpretations of God" rather than the revealed God of the Bible.

I guess it comes down to taking creative liberties with the very character of God. I doubt very many of us would preface a thought we had with "thus saith the Lord thy God", yet it is okay to provide a voice for the almighty if we are driving forward a storyline.

See, now I've probably gone and said too much. ......

Becca

PS - Pretzelogical you are more than welcome to the avatar, lol. If you would like to use it here on this forum please feel free and I can easily switch to a different one.

[chatty-kathi]

Certainly, a fictional book could be used by God, if it contained theological truth about God and His character. The point of anything we read is that it has to rightly divide the Word of truth:

2 Timothy 2:15, “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

One theological truth is the holiness of God. We are told in Scripture to only think on those things that are true, honest, pure, etc. in Philippians 4:8. From the link I posted above, http://www.challies.com/media/The_Shack.pdf , we read of one example where the truth of God’s holiness is definitely not conveyed:

“The Shack is a fictional tale. Though the story’s narrator is identified as “Willie” (referring to William Young, the book’s author) never is the reader expected to believe that the story is real. Yet though The Shack is fiction, it is clearly intended to communicate theological truths. It is meant to impact the way the reader thinks about God, about love and about life. It is not a book that was written only to share a story, but to share theology.

The Glory of God

One of the most disturbing aspects of The Shack is the behavior of Mack when he is in the presence of God. When we read in the Bible about those who were given glimpses of God, these people were overwhelmed by His glory. In Isaiah 6 the prophet is allowed to see “the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up” (Isaiah 6:1). Isaiah reacts by crying out “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts” (Isaiah 6:5)! Isaiah declares a curse upon himself for being a man whose lips are willing to utter unclean words even in a world created by a God of such glory and perfection. When Moses encountered God in the burning bush, he hid his face for he was afraid to look at God's glory (Exodus 3:6). In Exodus 33 Moses is given just a glimpse of God's glory, but God will show only His back saying “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live” (Genesis 33:20). Examples abound. When we look to the Bible's descriptions of heaven we find that any creatures who are in the presence of God are overwhelmed and overjoyed, crying out about God’s glory day and night. But in The Shack we find a man who stands in the very presence of God and uses foul language ("****" - the d word) (140) and "son of a ***" (hint - it's not gun) (224)), who expresses anger to God (which in turns makes God cry) (92), and who snaps at God in his anger (96). This is not a man who is in the presence of One who is far superior to Him, but a man who is in the presence of a peer. This portrayal of the relationship of man to God and God to man is a far cry from the Bible's portrayal. And indeed it must be because the God of The Shack is only a vague resemblance to the God of the Bible. There is no sense of awe as we, through Mack, come into the presence of God. Gone is the majesty of God when men stand in His holy presence and profane His name. Should God allow in His presence the very sins for which He sent His Son to die? Would a man stand before the Creator of the Universe and curse? What kind of God is the God of The Shack?”

[chatty-kathi]

I was just preparing to post something unrelated, when I came by this totally by accident. It is very fitting here, as well. It is from another thread by a guest:

Those of you who have been at this board the longest know that I dont recommend books written by men about the bible.

My first reason for not doing so is due to the fact that many today wont read their bible....and since they dont do this....they arent spiritually prepared to discern between the truth and a lie.

The second reason is due to my own experiance with books written by men about the bible. More often than not I have found that such books start out good and even biblical....but that is only to gain your trust.

The false teachigns (sic) dont come to the surface till midway thru or towards the end of the book. And thats what has gotten so many people in trouble today.

They say to themselves...."well the book has been right on target up to this point ...so the writer must know something I dont and I can trust it since he was right about the other things."

Next thing ya know...the readers are staunch purpose driven apostles and prophets.

The fact that this book is endorsed by Eugene Peterson, author of the horrible, New Age paraphrase, The Message, and is listed on Elijah's List, also should send up warning flags.

[Lightseeker]

Thank you for your posts, chatty-kathi. The quote you found "by accident" in another thread is very good as well - thank you for including it.

[runner4jesus]

The Seductive and Subversive "Shack"
Article By Jan Markell

Many have asked me to comment on William P. Young's ragingly popular book The Shack. Is this work of fiction really Christian? It is called by some as one of Christianity's most influential books. One prominent endorser says it will "leave you craving for God."

Yet people I respect highly, including Dr. Albert Mohler, President of Southern Baptist Seminary, calls it "undiluted heresy." He maintains there is no way it can seriously address the issues of Christian faith.

Here is the scenario in brief. Remember, this fiction plot is going to transform lives! A man by the name of "Mack" has a daughter murdered and he slips into a depression. He gets a message that he is supposed to meet God in the shack. Entering the shack, he is in the company of the Trinity, but now it gets weird and hard to believe anyone could be deceived by this piece of work.

In the shack he learns that God is "Papa" but is really an African-American female. Thankfully, Jesus is a Jewish man, but the Holy Spirit is another female figure of Asian descent. So much for Trinitarian theology! So Christianity has been misconstrued and has been revised. Talk about minimizing the Divine!

On page 110 Jesus says that He is perhaps not the way, truth, and life, but the BEST way to relate to the Father and Holy Spirit. Papa God, the African-American female, says she has many followers of many religions in different lands. This is not Orthodox Christianity, yet millions of Christian readers claim it is! Discernment has taken a summer vacation or perhaps a permanent vacation.

Mack asks "Papa" God, the female, about God's wrath. The answer is that she doesn't punish people for sin; rather she wants to cure sin. No mention of repentance, the shed blood, and all the things the new "seeker" environment wants to leave out in the church parking lot.

Former "New Ager" Warren Smith says, "The Shack is being described as a Christian novel and is currently ranked number one on the New York Times best-seller list for paperback fiction. Many believers are buying multiple copies and giving them to friends and family. The Shack reads as a true story but is obviously allegorical fiction. The book conveys postmodern spiritual ideas and teachings that challenge biblical Christianity - all in the name of 'God' and 'Jesus' and the 'Holy Spirit.' Author William P. Young's alternative presentation of traditional Christianity has both inspired and outraged his many readers. All the while his book continues to fly off the shelves of local bookstores."

Smith, who has been on my radio program many times denouncing Oprah Winfrey's deception, goes on to say, "I was drawn into the 'New Age Movement' years ago by books and lectures containing parabolic stories that were not unlike The Shack. They felt spiritually uplifting as they tackled tough issues and talked about God's love and forgiveness. They seemed to provide me with what I spiritually needed as they gave me much-needed hope and promise. Building on the credibility they achieved through their inspirational and emotive writings, my 'New Age' authors and teachers would then go on to tell me that God was in everyone and everything.

"I discovered that author William P. Young does exactly the same thing in The Shack. He moves through his very engaging and emotional story to eventually present this same 'New Age' teaching that God is 'in' everything."

As writer and researcher Berit Kjos concludes, "Yet countless pastors and church leaders are delighting in its message. By ignoring (or redefining) sin and guilt, they embrace an inclusive but counterfeit 'Christianity' that draws crowds but distorts the Bible. Discounting Satan as well, they weaken God's warnings about deception. No wonder His armor for today's spiritual war became an early victim of this spreading assault on truth."

So The Shack opens in the context of tragedy. Four years have passed since the cruel murder of Missy, Mack's precious six-year-old daughter. Enveloped in grief, he receives a strange invitation. "I've missed you," it says. "I'll be at the shack next weekend if you want to get together. Papa." What could it mean?

Doubtful, but drawn to the meeting, Mack heads for the Oregon wilderness and finds the dilapidated old shack. "God" miraculously transforms it into a cozy cottage, and Mack meets his supposed maker.

No, it doesn't get any stranger but sadly, it doesn't get more popular with Christians who miss the point that The Shack is intended to bring about a new definition of the Christian faith. As Albert Mohler says, "This is totally seductive and subversive, but readers, even believers, don't seem to mind." You can listen to all of his comments at this link.
If you know of someone taken in by this, please pass this commentary on to them. You'll be doing them an enormous favor.

To learn more, visit Lighthouse Trails Research and the article The Shack: Father-goddess Rising.

I thank God for all of those who are speaking out today over outrageous issues like this one. I am reminded about the many false things promoted today written in 2 Timothy 3:16: "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived." This is a last days' reference and if you don't think we're in them (the last days), I'll sell you a beach vacation to Minnesota in January.

[runner4jesus]

A verse was just put on my heart by the Holy Ghost, praise God. This is our hope.

I Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly, and I pray (beg, implore, ask earnestly) God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved BLAMELESS unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Lightseeker]

Here's another link...
http://herescope.blogspot.com/2008/06/s ... eaven.html
Blessings...

[runner4jesus]

WOW! that's terrific Light Seeker. Good link.

[Lookfortruth]

I sure hope you all realize this guy is not only unsaved, but the events he was writing about are not factual.
http://www.theshackbook.com/willie.html

[runner4jesus]

Hello Look For Truth: Who are you referring to as unsaved? Is it the author of "Shack" that is not saved? And the events he was writing about not factual? Just wondered. Is the link above about William who wrote Shack?

[Lookfortruth]

Hi runner, one only needs to research what inspired the book. It was only written for his 6 kids, and I do not know about you, but I do not think a saved person would write a fictional book about the Holy Spirit presenting as an asian woman....but I could be wrong.

[runner4jesus]

Your so right. I've been doing some research and Kim Warren who married William P. Young; is the daughter of Rick Warren of Purpose Driven Life. This should tell us something too. New Age is all over the place. So it doesn't surprise me that Mr. Young is writing a book that is heavily steeped in New Age. Thanks! for your input.

[Lookfortruth]

:a3: Your so right. I've been doing some research and Kim Warren who married William P. Young; is the daughter of Rick Warren of Purpose Driven Life. This should tell us something too. New Age is all over the place. So it doesn't surprise me that Mr. Young is writing a book that is heavily steeped in New Age. Thanks! for your input.

You are very welcome....only trying to watch here :)

[Sue-M]

I do believe that God can use anything, even the unsaved, to bring a person to (the beginning) of faith in God. But, once you see God. Once your eyes are opened. Once you realize that Jesus Lives. Once you realize that God loves you. Then, it's time to get the milk of scripture. God's Word is what we need. A person will not grow without learning God's Word. And without God's Word, that new believer will be like the seed that never took root.

This is the scripture that comes to my mind about this.


---------------------
1 Corinthians 10:23 (King James Version)

All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

------------------

So, I believe it's okay to read books and watch movies and stuff like that. But, to get the truth, we should only look at God's Word.

[runner4jesus]

Sue: The Word of God should be our reference point always and I agree with you without it there will be NO growth. Here's a verse that came to mind.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

[Resurrection Torchlight]

here's a question-

How long does it take you to read a book like this? Or any other for that matter?

And then ask yourself- how much time did you spend in God's Word this week?

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't read anything other than God's Word- but if one is to understand and discern truth from lies- then one should spend more time with the truth, so that when the lie presents itself wrapped in the skin of truth- you will be able to unwrap it and recognized for what it is.

Reading the works of men is helpful, to gain instruction, for entertainment, and to learn about the world we live in. They can be uplifting and help us to understand different points of view, and things in life we will never experience ourselves, through them we can gain sympathy for others whose experiences go beyond our culture and circumstances. But, they are not a substitute for the Word of God.

I recently read the New Earth book by Eckhart Tolle- that Oprah has been pushing- because my sister is into it and I wanted to learn more. On his website- he basically puts his book on par with the Bible- saying it has the power to spiritually transform people who read it. The New Age agenda is very deceptive- and believe me they have an agenda. It is being packaged more and more in Christianese in order to deceive. When I read the book, I could feel it's pull, some of it really made sense- but it was full of heresy. For me I went into it knowing it was all lies and still I felt drawn in to it. Be very careful about what you read- especially in light of the days in which we now live. This deception will become more and more prevalant
and is finding its way into Christian circles and churches. I have not read the Shack- but it sounds from the review very much like other things I have read from the New Age movement.

Go to the Word of God- It is the only thing you can be sure is 100% Truth.

RT

[runner4jesus]

Resurrection Torch Light. (your quote) but if one is to understand and discern truth from lies- then one should spend more time with the truth, so that when the lie presents itself wrapped in the skin of truth- you will be able to unwrap it and recognized for what it is.

[Rudi]

Hi runnerforjesus-
I have a quick question for you. In your Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:56 pm comment you said:

"Your so right. I've been doing some research and Kim Warren who married William P. Young; is the daughter of Rick Warren of Purpose Driven Life. This should tell us something too. New Age is all over the place. So it doesn't surprise me that Mr. Young is writing a book that is heavily steeped in New Age. Thanks! for your input."

According to the Rick Warren bio on Wikipedia, (yeah, I agree, not a recommended source for solid information in most cases)

"Warren has been married to Elizabeth K. Warren (Kay) for thirty years. They have three adult children (Amy, Josh and Matthew) and three grandchildren."

So, according to this, no daughter Kim.
I was wondering if you could share where you got the info about William P. Young being married to a daughter of Rick Warren. Young is 53 years old and I can't verify much else about him, including if his wifes name is Kim - maiden name Warren or not. I was just surprised to read what you wrote and wondered if you would clarify for me. Thanks and Bless you!

Rudi

[runner4jesus]

Hello Rudi: I did a google search and the information I found was what I posted above. It specifically said that info and linked Rick Warren with the author of SHACK and stated Kim was Rick's daughter. That's all I can tell you. That's all I found out. I copied the info by the way from Google.

[InHim]

Like anything else we read by any Christian author, eat the meat and throw out the bones.

And like anything else, if there is poison in the food, the quality of the food its in will not keep you from being poisoned.

Yes, I think that was one of the best conversations in the book, where God says "you can't trust me because deep down, you don't believe I'm good."

Hmmmm, I thought that was addressed in John 3:16?

But above all, have you ever stopped to consider, just why is it we need a book that uses contemporary characters who we can relate to in the natural, to understand a book that is already written in parables, history, poetry, and prophecy?

How is it God failed in the recording of his revelation and influence in the nation of Israel and others for over 2500 years to get His message out, that we need contemporary characters to tell us their version of the meaning of life?

I'm sorry, but the biggest discovery I've made is that if I'll just shut up, and not ask my own questions, but rather see what questions the Bible is choosing to answer, and what and how those answers apply to my life, if I'll just do that, the whole book gets simpler and simpler, and not a single page fails to connect to every other with a continuity that starts in Genesis and goes clear through into eternity.

[Pretzelogical]

I'm sorry, but the biggest discovery I've made is that if I'll just shut up, and not ask my own questions, but rather see what questions the Bible is choosing to answer, and what and how those answers apply to my life, if I'll just do that, the whole book gets simpler and simpler, and not a single page fails to connect to every other with a continuity that starts in Genesis and goes clear through into eternity.

No apology necessary!

[arcticlilly]

I don't know if anyone has posted this yet but I've been checking out character names and "goddess Papa" is a Polynesian earth goddess. Young grew up in Western Paupa New Guinea up until he was 6 years old among the Dani tribe.

[BeTheMoon]

Some folks in my church who have read The Shack said it is pure poison and disrespectful of God. I haven't read the book yet though. I first though it was a bio on Shaquille Oniel.