Unreported News, Commentary, Resources and Discussion of Bible Prophecy
ozell wrote:Hi FP
I copied this from the question and answer thread
If Jesus is the firstborn from the dead, why do we insist that the 24 elders, Moses, Abraham Elijah or even Enoch, are in heaven.
Is Jesus the firstborn from the dead or is it someone else?
Has anyone preceded Jesus in death to life and to live forever?
I think its Jesus.
Jn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Jesus cearly indicated in his parable the righteous dead were in paradise (not heaven) also known as Abraham's bosom.
wasn't it Jesus himself who said that no man had at any time ascended into heaven? So one must ask... Where did Enoch and Elijah go? If not to heaven?
I also think there may be another interpretation to that statement by Jesus.
Is it possible that Jesus was not saying that no man was yet in heaven... but rather that no man had ascended (by his own power or righteousness) to heaven.... in other words no man had at any time been perfect enough to attain heaven... and that we only get there by the grace of God?
When did Elijah die?
2Ki 2:13 He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him,
Are you saying that he died first? Does anyone know what the "chariots of Israel and the horseman" means?
Jesus is the first born from the dead because His glorified fleshly body ascended into heaven. This was the first and there has been none since. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Our spirits go to heaven, our bodies to the grave.
It was already mentioned that Enoch and Elijah didn't die, so it wasn't their glorified bodies that ascended (where they ascended to, I don't know). I had never thought about it until I read this thread. I guess I just thought they went to heaven. This would seem to violate scripture however from what I just read.
It is interesting to think that they may still be on the earth. That is a mind blower.
If I remember right, the school of the prophets were not right about a lot of things. They did a lot of guessing or speculating. They watched Elijah closely from a distance. I don't think we can say that Elijah is on earth from what they said. They were guessing.
I like to guess and try to understand things. When we you use the bible to interpret the bible we can guess with education. I can see that you do this which contributes to an interesting discussion.
I don't recall about the letter he wrote. I recall that the Lord told him to anoint someone who would become king which was his last assignment from the time he ran from Jezebell then was ministered to by the angel. After anointing the king he was ready to depart and told Elisha not to
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