Heres a question for ya,

by **Test4echo101** on Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:24 pm

What could possibly be the meaning of the "Great Deception" that the Lord spoke about thru John? 
 
I myself have no idea what that could be. 
Keep in mind thou, before you answer, 
This "Great Deception" seems to be sonething that the Whole world would fall for. Not just Christians. 
The Great deception would not only shake christian beleif, but Islam, budhism, ATHIEISM, and on and on..... 
 
 
What could this passage in scripture mean? Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub149.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=test4echo101>Test4echo101</A> at: 2/10/04 2:26 pm

by **njfish17** on Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:45 pm

This is strictly speculation and nothing more. However, I think that it is likely that Satan and his "people" know the Bible and the prophecies regarding the return of Christ. 
 
I wouldnt be suprised if all this space research and mars type stuff will be used to present Antichrist as appearing in the sky. They could have holograms or something precisely positioned so that everyone in the world would see "him". 
 
This would deceive everyone if someone or something that looked like a person appeared to be coming out of the sky. 
 
This type of thing would affect more than just christians.

by **Herb** on Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:55 pm

It's all in verse -- Daniel 9:27. 
 
"And on the wings of abominations will come one who makes desolate." 
 
I believe Paul was thinking of this line in that verse when he said the apostasy would come first, then the man of sin would be revealed. 
 
It is my opinion this is already happening in the Toroto Blessing type revivals. The promoters are teaching a super class of Chrisitans are to appear and win the world for Jesus. 
 
Ever year there is a big conference held by the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem. It is connected with the religious right in America, which in turn is connected with the Rev Mood and his interfaith movement. 
 
These so-called evangelicals believe they will convert Israel to Christianity before Christ returns. This brings up the question, what happens to those Jews who don't convert? 
 
I think the stage is being set for the AC to go into the temple. Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub149.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=herb@herbsdiscussionboard>Herb</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.fulfileddprophecy.com/fplogo12.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 2/10/04 2:57 pm

by **njfish17** on Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:07 pm

I know this isnt necessarily what this thread is about but I must (maybe) disagree with you on one little thing. 
 
I don't think Paul said the apostasy happens before the man of sin is revealed. He is just listing two things that must occur before the Day of Lord but not necessarily in order. It is possible that they are in that order but not necessarily. 
 
2 Thess. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 
 
Also check out Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 
 
Notice this is after the abomination of desolation.

by **Test4echo101** on Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:18 pm

njfish17 
 
 
Well I agree with you that Lucifer knows the scripture. 
 
You know, I had a huge amount of info written for this post.I had to delete it all and start over. 
I was going to say in essence, I didn't believe what you said. 
 
But, as I wrote I found myself not proving you wrong, but proving you right. WOW. 
 
 
Science is the only beleif on earth that totally disregards any supernatural events. 
 
Most of the world today, I would argue, are athiests in some maner or another. 
 
I would agree with you that the 'Great Deceptions" lie is based in science. If they can prove beyond a "seemingly" shadow of a doubt that our Existence is NOT based on God but on a puddle of mud that somehow formed life, not only life here on earth, but life elsewhere, ALL religions on earth would be scratching their heads. 
 
After all, most Christians I know are absolutly sure that there is no Life elsewhere. 
 
Really I don't blame them. No Life HAS been found anywhere. 
Its a theory, nothing more. 
 
But if life were to pop up, especially Intelligent life, wow, would we be all confused. 
Every Christian on earth running to the bible to find the passage that somehow agrees with Life "Intelligent" life elsewhere. 
 
I know I'd be saying, "whats gives Lord?" 
 
Are they saved? Did the Lord visit them as well? 
Wow, I hope no life is found anywhere else. It would be very difficult to reconcile. 
 
 
test, Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub149.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=test4echo101>Test4echo101</A> at: 2/10/04 3:30 pm

by **Test4echo101** on Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:29 pm

Herb, 
 
I have to disagree with you. Not on your biblical knowledge but because I don't believe the message of the Great Deception was based on "Only deceving Christians" 
 
Maybe I'm wrong, I may well be, but I think the context of Great Deception was that the "Whole World" would be decieved. Not just Christians. 
 
Am I wrong? 
 
I mean according to what you've said, Only Christians at the time of Deception would be the target of the deception. 
 
What about an Athiest? Or a Muslim? Why would they be deceived as well if they haven't known the word of God? 
 
Does that make sense? 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub149.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=test4echo101>Test4echo101</A> at: 2/10/04 4:06 pm

by **Herb** on Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:59 pm

If you tie all the related Scripture about the end-times together, to me it appears the apostasy comes before the AC, not after. In fact, the apostasy seems to ushers in the AC. Once again I refer to Daniel 9:27 which, when you list what's said, you find almost the whole end-times scene. 
 
But your right, God will send a deluding influence on all who have not received the love of the Truth. That would include all false religions -- including apostate Christians. 
 
The thing I've noticed about many who are caught up in these revivals is they don't seem to be satisfied with the simple Gospel message. They seem to want something more. And, in place of the Scripture they place more value on what they call God's "present truth," which seems to float around quite a lot. 
 
Herb

by **njfish17** on Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:56 pm

I apologize for my lack of thought that went into my first response. 
 
Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast 
 
Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

by **Herb** on Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:09 pm

I understand where your coming from. And you are right, this will be a great deception indeed. However, I don't equate this deception by the FP and the AC to the apostasy that comes first and allowed this all to take place. 
 
I could be wrong though. Like I said, I don't claim to have it all down. 
 
Herb

by **christian** on Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:09 am

Maybe the only reason Christians are subject to the Great Deception is because the deception itself lies within Christian doctrine. Therefore no other religion would be as affected by it because they don't believe it anyway. However they do all know Christian lore, and will certainly be around to witness the fallout. 
 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

by **njfish17** on Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:54 am

Hey Herb, 
 
I agree with you that apostasy is happening today and with more and more intensity;however, I think that this is all leading to the Great Apostasy. 
 
You may be right. Its not that important necessarily when it happens. 
 
I just believe that the signs and wonders, persecution, martyrdom, death from hunger, etc... will cause many to fall away from the faith.

by **Ark Anjel61985** on Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm

In my view, the Great Apostacy has taken place over many events. Slowly and surely, the church grew corrupt in its own financial matters, trying to become popular, covering up its past (Cath. Pedophiles, crusades, reformation, and schizms), and the recent allowance of homosexual marriages. This is the church today. Your priest is a gay pedophile, marrying his son to his step-son, doing it all because it is a political statement saying that all are equal, and to get his son the financial benefits of a (civil union). Even before that, organized religion itself was practically suicide. The pope, the saints, Mary, John Smith, Quakers, you know what I am pointing at.....people think they have it all figured out, "Oh we gotta do things this way, or we'll all burn in hell." 
We need to get back to the original church, a fellowship of disciples, not institutions of saints or martyrs.

by **Puut** on Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:55 am

Very intresting! The Bible does say that he deception would fall on all who dwell on earth! Aliens...UFOs..."we'll take you to your (new) leader!!" ....and the best of all, "We made you."

by **christian** on Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:31 am

OK: 
 
the great apostacy was the institutionalisation of Christianity into the state-backing Churches. Christianity is all about personal freedom under God, and the state (especially the U.S.) is all about limiting personal freedom to maximise capital return per head. "you will study hard, get a job in I.T. and pay your taxes". This is not about separating Church and State, but about returning Christianity to the people. 
 
Happy endtimes! 
 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b">

by **MidnightWatcher** on Sun Feb 29, 2004 8:19 pm

I have a feeling that the deception that would deceive even the elect, if it were possible, is... 
 
EVOLUTION and the nonsensical notion that the world is billions of years old, which are complete scientific blunders to begin with. It takes more faith to believe in evolution and billions-of-years-old universe than it does to believe in the Bible. 
 
For the most part, the entire world believes the lie of evolution -- even religions like Islam and Buddhism and fallen for it. 
 
* The shrinking sun limits the earth-sun relationship to less than "billions of years." The sun is losing both mass and diameter. Changing the mass would upset the fine gravitational balance that keeps the earth at just the right distance for life to survive. 
 
* The 0.5 inch layer of cosmic dust on the moon indicates the moon has not been accumulating dust for billions of years. 
 
* The existence of short-period comets indicates the universe is less than billions of years old. 
 
* Fossil meteorites are very rare in layers other than the top layers of the earth. This indicates that the layers were not exposed for millions of years as is currently being taught in school textbooks. 
 
* The moon is receding a few inches each year. Billions of years ago the moon would have been so close that the tides would have been much higher, eroding away the continents. 
 
* The moon contains considerable quantities of U-236 and Th-230, both short-lived isotopes that would have been long gone if the moon were billions of years old. 
 
* The existence of great quantities of space dust, which by the Pointing-Robertson effect would have been vacuumed out of our solar system in a few thousand years, indicates the solar system is young. 
 
* At the rate many star clusters are expanding, they could not have been traveling for billions of years. 
 
* Saturn’s rings are still unstable, indicating they are not billions of years old. 
 
* Jupiter and Saturn are cooling off rather rapidly. They are losing heat twice as fast as they gain it from the sun. They cannot be billions of years old. Jupiter’s moon, Io, is losing matter to Jupiter. It cannot be billions of years old. 
 
* Among other factors to consider is that all the ancient astronomers from 2000 years ago recorded that Sirius was a red star—today it is a white dwarf star. Since today’s textbooks in astronomy state that one hundred thousand years are required for a star to "evolve" from a red giant to a white dwarf, obviously this view needs to be restudied. 
 
* The decaying magnetic field limits earth’s age to much less than "billions". 
 
* The volume of lava on earth divided by its rate of efflux gives a number of only a few million years, not billions. 
 
* Dividing the amount of various minerals in the ocean by their influx rate indicates only a few thousand years of accumulation. 
 
* The amount of Helium 4 in the atmosphere, divided by the formation rate on earth, gives only 175,000 years. (God may have created the earth with some helium which would reduce the age more.) 
 
* The erosion rate of the continents is such that they would erode to sea level in less than 14,000,000 years, destroying all old fossils. 
 
* Topsoil formation rates indicate only a few thousand years of formation. 
 
* Niagara Falls’ erosion rate (four to five feet per year) indicates an age of less than 10,000 years. Don’t forget Noah’s Flood could have eroded half of the seven-mile-long Niagara River gorge in a few hours as the flood waters raced through the soft sediments.) 
 
* The rock encasing oil deposits could not withstand the pressure for more than a few thousand years. 
 
* The size of the Mississippi River delta, divided by the rate mud is being deposited, gives an age of less than 30,000 years. (The Flood in Noah’s day could have washed out 80% of the mud there in a few hours or days, so 4400 years is a reasonable age for the delta.) 
 
* The slowing spin of the earth limits its age to less than the "billions of years" called for by the theory of evolution. 
 
* A relatively small amount of sediment is now on the ocean floor, indicating only a few thousand years of accumulation. This embarrassing fact is one of the reasons why the continental drift theory is vehemently defended by those who worship evolution. 
 
* The largest stalactites and flowstone formations in the world could have easily formed in about 4400 years. 
 
* The Sahara desert is expanding. It easily could have been formed in a few thousand years. 
 
* The oceans are getting saltier. If they were billions of years old, they would be much saltier than they are now. 
 
* Ice cores at the south pole and Greenland have a maximum depth of 10-14,000 feet. The aircraft that crash-landed in Greenland in 1942 and excavated in 1990 were under 263 feet of ice after only 48 years. This indicates all of the ice could have accumulated in 4400 years. 
 
* The current population of earth (5.5 billion souls) could easily be generated from eight people (survivors of the Flood) in less than 4000 years. 
 
* The oldest living coral reef is less than 4200 years old. 
 
* The oldest living tree in the world is about 4300 years old. 
 
www.drdino.com

by **MidnightWatcher** on Sun Feb 29, 2004 8:26 pm

Oh yeah, here's a very good read for those who believe in evolution and that the earth is millions of years old... 
 
<a href="http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/05agee2.htm">www.pathlights.com/ce_enc...5agee2.htm</a>

by **christian** on Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:37 am

Hi, 
 
does it matter? The Bible tells it's version of events, and scientists think they have found a rational version. I have read Physics (and no, I don't worship it) to degree level, and it is very much the study of how the world works. 
 
In my ten postgraduate years, continuing to study the subject as it advances, albeit from the sidelines, no one has ever been able to ask why it works the way it does, or how it came about. That's why I am completely at home with my God and my science; Science merely casts a light on how God put the place together, and the deeper we look, the more strange and beautiful it becomes. 
 
Now, as to Biblical records; the great flood co-inciding with the earth's orbital capture of the moon? sounds pretty good to me: water levels all over the planet would have been suddenly and irreversably altered. Records of civilisations before that time have been lost, and I have no problem in believing that this was God's way of telling us to get our act together and start being civilised. 
 
As another example, Moses' crossing of the red sea: Sedimentary deposits point to the fact that the area did flood with alarming rapidity around that time. I have no problem believing that this was to protect Moses and the tribes of Israel, to allow for the settling of the Jewish state, and to pave the way for the coming of Christ. How it happened is irrelevent: nothing comes to pass that She doesn't want to happen. God is all around us, and she's going to allow something big to happen again in a couple of years. 
 
Does science allow us to understand the workings of the world? Yes. Does it seek to deny God? No. Can faith and science co-exist in the same person? Yes. Does it matter how old the earth is? No. We are here by Her divine grace, and that alone. Out of all the sperm, all the eggs, and all the souls that could have been it is us who walk the earth, and we should be grateful for that chance. 
 
If the world was made anew last night whilst we slept, and all our memories were implanted by God each morning, would it matter? 
 
with love, 
 
-C

by **carpentersdaughter** on Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:19 am

Isa: 64:8 
Yet, O Lord, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter;we are all the work of your hand. 
 
 
Mt. 6:9 
"This, then, is how you should pray: Our Father in heaven, hallowed by your name. 
 
Ro. 8:15 
For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the spirit of sonship. And by Him, we cry, "ABBA FATHER." 
 
Need I say any more?

by **Shayla2** on Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:56 pm

Psalm 100: 
 
Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all ye lands, 
Serve the Lord with gladness; 
come before His presence with singing. 
 
Know ye that the Lord he is God: 
it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; 
we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. 
 
Enter into his gates with thanksgiving , 
and into his courts with praise: 
be thankful unto him, 
and bless his name. 
 
For the Lord is good; 
his mercy is everlasting; 
and his truth endureth to all generations. 
 
Christian, this is just one of the Psalms, but in this one Psalm, look at the times that it refers to God as He. Throughout the whole Bible , God is know as a He. Where do you get the God is a 'she' from?

Heres a question for ya,

Heres a question for ya,

speculate on deception

love of the truth

Hey Herb

Re: speculate on deception

Re: speculate on deception

deception

deception

*

Deception

Herb

Re: Deception

Here's a possible answer for you...

apostacy

The deception....

Here's a great link...

The age of the earth

FAtherhood of God

Re: The age of the earth

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