Pentecostal?

by **panda** on Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:14 pm

Hi, I was just wondering anyones opinion on the Pentecostal denomination..I was first saved when I was 10 at a Pentecostal church, but fell away by age 13..I just attended a special service where Donnie Swaggart was the guest evangelist tonight, in a Pentecostal church.. I am just curious what everyone thinks of that denomination, any and all feedback is appreciated! Thank you.<img src=http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_1_125.gif ALT=":answerquestion"> <img src=http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/signs/blessyou.png ALT=":blessyou">

by **Mytreasureisinheaven** on Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:18 am

I think that the standard we need to hold every church up to is whether they are teaching the whole council of God. Teaching the Word, the whole Bible, without adding anything to it or taking anything away. Yes, this includes teaching and exercising spiritual gifts as the Holy Spirit leads. But no one thing should become the focus of a church. Balance is the key. If sound doctine is being taught and is the primary focus of the church, it is probably ok. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p203.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=mytreasureisinheaven@herbsdiscussionboard>Mytreasureisinheaven</A> at: 11/6/05 11:21 am

by **biblebeliever** on Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:34 am

I go to a oneness pentecostal church. The power and the truth about the Godhead is in the oneness pentecostal church.<img src=http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/signs/blessyou.png ALT=":blessyou">

by **Holly** on Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:46 am

biblebeliever, 
 
The oneness Pentecostals deny the Trinity, which, throughout the history of the church, has been considered a non-negotiable doctrine of the Christian faith (i.e., essential for salvation). That's because the Trinity is clearly taught in Scripture and it has many important implications. Being involved with a denomination that denies the Trinity is a cause for concern.

by **SherreeL** on Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:56 am

biblebeliever, is this where you came up with all your beliefs about baptism? <img src=http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_12.gif ALT=":thinking"> Sherree 
Phil.3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection

by **biblebeliever** on Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:58 pm

SherreeL,The Jesus' name baptism is the way the first church baptized the believers. If you read the book of acts,this is stated all the way thur the book. At the beginning of the book of acts,Jesus stayed with the apostles for 40 days(acts 1:3),dont you think He would've told them how to do things. The baptism was changed in 325 AD at the council of Nicea by the church of Rome.Its in the catholic history books.(Catholic Encyclopedia,vol.2,pg.263, Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics(1951),II,384,389) Theres alot more if anyone wants more.I believe that Matt. 28;19 is giving us a hint at who He really was.There is only ONE God, His name is Jesus.

by **SherreeL** on Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:35 pm

So you do not believe in the Holy Trinity? Sherree 
Phil.3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection

by **panda** on Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:46 pm

Well, thankfully, the Pentecostal church called Gospel Assembly that I went to last night, is not a "oneness" church.. They deffinately believe in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit! There was a slight emphasis on tounges, but it may have been only because Donnie was preaching, and that would have been a good time for the people (like me) whe did not regularly attend, to get the Holy Spirit w/ evidence of speaking in tounges.. I did that when I was 10, but I haven't since I was saved and born again.. I don't know if it counted when I was 10, as the church we went to ended being a bit apostate, and I think the main reason I spoke in tounges was because everyone was shoving me about and smacking me in the head, that kind of stuff did not happen last night at the Gospel Assembly church <img src=http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_13_22.gif ALT=":praise"> .. It seemed pretty legit, but I work during each regular session that church has! I need a new job!

by **biblebeliever** on Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:13 pm

I believe the Father ,Son,and the Holy Ghost are all one. Hear O Israel,the Lord our God is one.<div style="text-align:center">I Tim. 3:16</div> And without controversy great is the mystery of Godliness:GOD was manifest in the FLESH,justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles,believed on in the world, received up into glory. Even in Matt.1:23 its says His name shall be Immanuel, which being interpreted is "God with us." So unless you believe there are more than one God then Jesus is it. The Bible says in;<div style="text-align:center">James 2:19</div>Thou believest that there is ONE God;thou doest well: the devils also believe,and tremble. There are many other scriptures. Let me ask you something Sherree, how do you believe?

by **Holly** on Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:46 pm

biblebeliever, 
 
All Christians believe God is one. The Bible clearly teaches that. However, the Bible also clearly teaches that there are three Persons within the Godhead. There is no contradiction here. There is one God (essence) made up of three distinct Persons. The verses you quoted do not support your claim.

by **SherreeL** on Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:56 pm

biblebeliever, I believe in the Holy Trinity. God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit. Sherree 
Phil.3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection

by **JCWatchin** on Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:27 pm

biblebeliever, 
 
If you will, please explain to us the error of our ways in viewing the Godhead as ONE God, but expressed, manifest in three distinct "persons" (not 3 Gods!) ONE GOD, 3 "aspects", functions etc. 
 
Q: Out of WHO'S right hand does the Lamb take the scroll ? 
 
Q: Jesus is now sitting just to the right of ? 
 
Q: Jesus is our "advocate", our "mediator" ... to whom does he make His argument on our behalf ?

by **SherreeL** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:06 am

Hi, panda! <img src=http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_2_104.gif ALT=":hugs"> ...Are your questions being answered or have we got off course here? I sure don't want to hijack the thread from you. Sherree 
Phil.3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection

by **blessedayers** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:53 am

Oneness Pentecostalism 
<a href="http://www.watchman.org/profile/onenesspro.htm">www.watchman.org/profile/onenesspro.htm</a> 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
"Seek ye out of the book of the LORD,and read: no one of these shall fail...Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things old and new...Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.” 
Isa.34:16a,Matt.13:52, 2Tim 4:2 
 
A false witness shall perish; but the man that obeyeth shall speak unchallenged. 
For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.Pro 21:28 Luk 21:15 
 
Jody ***Psalms 119***

by **SherreeL** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:47 am

Thanks, Jody. That was very informative. <img src=http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_12.gif ALT=":thinking"> Sherree 
Phil.3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection

by **biblebeliever** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:08 am

I cant pretend to know all the answers but I know there are not three gods.<div style="text-align:center">Isa. 43:10</div>Ye are my witnesses,saith the Lord, and My servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe Me,and understand that I am He;before me there was no God formed,neither shall there be after Me.<div style="text-align:center">Isa. 44:6</div> Thus saith the Lord, the King of Israel,and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the First and I am the Last;and beside me there is no God.<div style="text-align:center">Isa. 44:8</div> Fear ye not,neither be afraid:have not I told thee from that time,and have declared it? ye are even My witnesses. Is there a God beside Me? yeah,there is no God; I know not any.<div style="text-align:center">Who died on the cross?</div><div style="text-align:center">Acts 20:28</div>Take heed therefore unto yourselves,and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers,to feed the church of God,which He purchased with His own blood.<div style="text-align:center">II Cor.5:19</div>To say, that God was in Christ,reconciling the world unto Himself,not imputing their trepasses unto them;and hath committed unto us the word of reconcilation.<div style="text-align:center">Col. 2:9</div> For in Him(Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. So then could you not say Jesus is God?<div style="text-align:center">Blessed</div>I have read that link you gave,most of it is true,some of it is not. For one thing the date of the start of oneness is wrong. It started 2000 yrs ago in an upper room on the day of pentecost. read the book of acts. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p203.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=biblebeliever@herbsdiscussionboard>biblebeliever</A> at: 11/7/05 10:14 am

by **SherreeL** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:16 am

biblebeliever, no one is telling you here that there are three Gods. One God manifested in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Sherree 
Phil.3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection

by **JCWatchin** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:23 am

biblebeliever, 
 
I dont think you'll find ANYONE here who believes that there are 3 Gods ! Obviously, the people who split off from Assemblies Of God to form the UPC oneness thing must have thought that belief in the Trinity is believing in 3 Gods ? 
 
Panda, 
 
Speaking of Assemblies Of God...that's the church I was saved in. Did not speak in tongues though. Felt pressured to (my own pressure to fit in maybe ??) - Good people ! I ended up going to a Calvary Chapel and ironically, while driving home from a great worship time, began to pray in another language ! Go figure ! -- I dont exercise it much....never in church, and only very seldom in my own prayer time, even then when I'm so overflowing that my words seem to fail to express what's in my heart. - Tongues.... necessary ? I dont have a clue. I feel just as "saved" with or without them personally. 
 
Good luck in you search for a good, bible-based church home !

by **carpentersdaughter** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:38 am

The oneness belief is also known as Modelism, the belief that God the Father spoke in the Old Testament, then changed his clothing and jumped into the suit of Jesus Christ, then when Jesus assended into Heaven, he jumped into the suit of the Holy Spirit. 
 
This doctrine is taught because of those who don't understand how a Triune God can manafest Himself as The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. 
 
It is easier for them to believe in the Oneness theory then to have faith that there is a Triune God. 
 
This is why there is Mormonism, Jovah's Witnesses. These founders of these cults did not want to believe what the Bible says about God. They took their own views and built a cult on it. 
 
Also, any church that advocates the Oneness theory is a CULT, Period. 
 
Biblebeliever, you really need to reexamine your beliefs on God, your eternal destiny is determined what you belief about God is. 
 
Walter Martin explained it in a way that makes it easier to understand. 
 
You take water, and under certain circumstances can be liquid, ice and vapor ALL at the same, time but yet it is water. 
 
If anyone knows where Martin explains this, it would be appreciated. 
 
Martin does a good job at this and it really helps to understand just how God can be three yet one. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p203.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=carpentersdaughter>carpentersdaughter</A> at: 11/7/05 10:43 am

by **SherreeL** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:42 am

biblebeliever, I would be interested in what your understanding of Gen.1:26, And God said,Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.......means? Sherree 
Phil.3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection

by **biblebeliever** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:09 am

Carpentersdaughter,I will have to disagree with you,I believe if I was in an occult,There wouldnt be so much scripture to support my beliefs. Everything we teach is in the bible.I dont see anywhere in the bible where it separates the Godhead into different "persons"You do see "one" God" everywhere. Sherree, werent the angels made in His (Gods) image? Could He not be talking about the angels "Let Us make man in OUR image"<img src=http://members.shaw.ca/wpf/yes_no/dunno.gif ALT=":dunno"> I know that without a shadow of a doubt that God is in our church.Maybe this is going to the issue that separates the churches in the end??

by **SherreeL** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:33 am

No, biblebeliever, God was not talking about angels, here. The Word says, "let Us make man," not angels. To believe that would be to twist scripture to make it fit your view. 
 
cd was correct in telling you that the Oness Penecostal churches are a Cult. Any church or denomination that doesn't believe in the scriptural view of God is boardering on heresy. 
 
I really don't think that God is really dividing up churches as you stated it. He is bringing His people out of every church that doesn't line up with His Word. He is calling us unto Himself and away from man's opinions and false teachings. Sherree 
Phil.3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection

by **Be still** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:04 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>You take water, and under certain circumstances can be liquid, ice and vapor ALL at the same, time but yet it is water.<hr></blockquote> 
 
Good analogy Linda. There is a woman in my church who really struggles with the Trinity, I'm going to explain it to her this way. Karen 
 
"Be still, and know that I am God! I am exalted among the nations, I am exalted in the earth." Psalm 46:10 
 
“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 14:6

by **perigrini** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:30 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>You take water, and under certain circumstances can be liquid, ice and vapor ALL at the same, time but yet it is water.<hr></blockquote> 
Of course it's only intended as an example, but I find this particular one slightly off target because I don't believe there is any circumstance in which water is at the same moment water, vapor AND frozen as a solid. 
 
I've used a slightly different example....that of an eternally burning candle. 
 
If one accepts a candle that burns forever without being used up then it fits. 
 
The example works this way... 
 
Consider a burning candle. The candle itself is the source, but it also produces light, and Jesus is often referred to as the Light of the world...and additionally, a burning candle produces heat (the holy spirit is often represented as a flame). 
 
All three of these attributes of a burning candle occur simultaneously. All of them are simultaneously required in order to be complete (it's not a burning candle if it doesn't produce light and heat). 
And we can view God the Father as the source, God the Son as the Light and God the Holy Spirit as the heat. 
Each are integral to a burning candle. 
 
I'm sure someone can find something with that analogy that they take exception with as well, but I've not seen any real complaints with it. 
 
God bless, 
 
perigrini

by **SherreeL** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:39 am

Your analogy is great, peri. I've always used the same analogy using a burning lightbulb. Sherree 
Phil.3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection

by **sparklymomma** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:53 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> water is at the same moment water, vapor AND frozen as a solid.<hr></blockquote>...if you thaw an ice cube, you are likely to have all three...a puddle around the cube, steam coming off, and an icy center that is still frozen. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> 
 
<img src=http://members.shaw.ca/wpf/misc/sofa.gif ALT=":sofa">

by **sparklymomma** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:55 am

I do like the burning candle analogy. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

by **Be still** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:39 pm

Quote: 
 
Consider a burning candle. The candle itself is the source, but it also produces light, and Jesus is often referred to as the Light of the world...and additionally, a burning candle produces heat (the holy spirit is often represented as a flame). 
 
All three of these attributes of a burning candle occur simultaneously. All of them are simultaneously required in order to be complete (it's not a burning candle if it doesn't produce light and heat). 
And we can view God the Father as the source, God the Son as the Light and God the Holy Spirit as the heat. 
Each are integral to a burning candle. 
 
That is a good one. Thanks Peri. <img src=http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_203.gif ALT=":sunshine"> 
Karen 
 
"Be still, and know that I am God! I am exalted among the nations, I am exalted in the earth." Psalm 46:10 
 
“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 14:6

by **carpentersdaughter** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:04 pm

Biblebeliever, 
 
Your statement that your church uses scripture to prove the oneness doctrine is nothing new. The Mormons and Jw's say the very same thing. They use the Bible to prove that what Joseph Smith saw is in the scriptures. 
 
The Mormons and Jw's say they aren't an cult too, so your church is in with the same spirit as those mentioned. 
 
I don't say this to hurt you, but I do say this to get you to realize that the oneness doctrine is not from God, it's from men who refused to believe what God has said about himself in the Bible. 
 
Either you believe man, which the oneness doctrine is, or you start studying apart from what you have been taught and totally put all your knowledge of this doctrine aside and allow the Holy Spirit to teach you and lead you into the truth. 
 
This is more important than what you could ever realize.

by **SherreeL** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:25 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>This is more important than what you could ever realize.<hr></blockquote> 
 
I agree, Linda. Sherree 
Phil.3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection

by **biblebeliever** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:02 pm

The candle is still one no matter how you look at it. I have studied this out, there is only one God. He robed Himself in flesh to die for the sins of humanity,thats what the bible says.Jesus even said My Father and I are one. Now the only way you'll ever see God is through the face of Jesus Christ,all the fullness of the Godhead is in Him.Look at Zech.11:12 (And I said unto them,If ye think good,give Me My price;and if not,forbear,So they weighed for My price THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER.) Isnt this Elohim speaking?Again in Zech 12:10(And I will pour upon the house of David,and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem,the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon Me whom they PIERCED, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for Him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.) Isnt this Elohim talking again?,at least my bible has these words in red.

by **sparklymomma** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:39 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Mat 26:36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. 37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. 38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. 39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt]. <hr></blockquote> 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Luke 22:39 And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him. 40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation. 41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, 42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. 43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. 44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. <hr></blockquote> 
 
 
I don't know...Here it seem clear to me that Jesus is praying to the Father...to another person.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> 
 
 
 
Also...Several places in the bible say that Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father: 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places], <hr></blockquote> 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Rom 8:34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.<hr></blockquote> 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Hbr 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. <hr></blockquote> 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Psa 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.<hr></blockquote> 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?<hr></blockquote> 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Mar 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.<hr></blockquote> 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Hbr 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?<hr></blockquote>

by **blessedayers** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:58 pm

Biblebeliever...I have a question for you... 
 
Jesus said....that no one has ever seen the Father....and that if we had seen Him...we have seen the Father. 
 
So....who was it that appeared to Abraham and discussed the destruction of sodom and gamorra? 
 
And whop appeared to moses and the elders? 
 
Remember...Jesus Himself said no one has seen the Father except Him. 
 
Exo 24:9 
Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: 
Exo 24:10 
And they saw the God of Israel: 
and there was under his feet as it were 
a paved work of a sapphire stone, 
and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. 
Exo 24:11 
And upon the nobles of the children of Israel 
he laid not his hand: 
also they saw God, and did eat and drink. 
Exo 24:12 
And the LORD said unto Moses, 
Come up to me into the mount, and be there: 
and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, 
and commandments which I have written; 
that thou mayest teach them. 
 
Joh 6:45 
It is written in the prophets, 
And they shall be all taught of God. 
Every man therefore that hath heard, 
and hath learned of the Father, 
cometh unto me. 
Joh 6:46 
Not that any man hath seen the Father, 
save he which is of God, 
he hath seen the Father. 
Joh 6:47 
Verily, verily, I say unto you, 
He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 
Joh 6:48 
I am that bread of life. 
Joh 6:49 
Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 
Joh 6:50 
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, 
that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 
Joh 6:51 
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: 
if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: 
and the bread that I will give is my flesh, 
which I will give for the life of the world. 
 
So who was it that appeared to these people in the OT? 
 
1Co 10:1 
Moreover, brethren, 
I would not that ye should be ignorant, 
how that all our fathers were under the cloud, 
and all passed through the sea; 
1Co 10:2 
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 
1Co 10:3 
And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 
1Co 10:4 
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: 
for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: 
and that Rock was Christ. 
 
 
But...on top of all this.....why would Jesus say He would pray to Himself? 
 
Joh 14:5 
Thomas saith unto him, Lord, 
we know not whither thou goest; 
and how can we know the way? 
Joh 14:6 
Jesus saith unto him, 
I am the way, the truth, and the life: 
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 
Joh 14:7 
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 
Joh 14:8 
Philip saith unto him, 
Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 
Joh 14:9 
Jesus saith unto him, 
Have I been so long time with you, 
and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? 
he that hath seen me hath seen the Father 
and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 
Joh 14:10 
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, 
and the Father in me? 
the words that I speak unto you 
I speak not of myself: 
but the Father that dwelleth in me, 
he doeth the works. 
Joh 14:11 
Believe me that I am in the Father, 
and the Father in me: 
or else believe me for the very works' sake. 
Joh 14:12 
Verily, verily, I say unto you, 
He that believeth on me, 
the works that I do shall he do also; 
and greater works than these shall he do; 
because I go unto my Father. 
Joh 14:13 
And whatsoever ye shall ask 
in my name, that will I do, 
that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 
Joh 14:14 
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 
Joh 14:15 
If ye love me, keep my commandments. 
Joh 14:16 
And I will pray the Father, 
and he shall give you another Comforter, 
that he may abide with you for ever; 
 
 
See....either oneness is wrong....or Jesus was being deceptive? 
 
If the *****ures contradict themselves....why believe any of it? 
 
If Jesus couldnt teach us clearly and truthfully on this issue...then why believe Him at all in any of it? 
 
He told us....that He said nothing of His own...but that He only said to us what His Father gave Him to say. 
 
So either He is mistaken...or the oneness belief is. 
 
Why would Jesus present Himself as the only begotten Son of God...if He wasnt? 
 
God is not man that He should lie....we all belong to Him and He can do with us as He pleases...thus has no reason what so ever to decieve us in this matter....or any matter for that reason. 
 
Who do you think this is describing.... 
 
Pro 1:20 
Wisdom is crying out in the street; 
her voice is loud in the open places; 
Pro 1:21 
Her words are sounding in the meeting-places, 
and in the doorways of the town: 
Pro 1:22 
How long, you simple ones, will foolish things be dear to you? and pride a delight to the haters of authority? how long will the foolish go on hating knowledge? 
Pro 1:23 
Be turned again by my sharp words: 
see, I will send the flow of my spirit on you, 
and make my words clear to you. 
Pro 1:24 
Because your ears were shut to my voice; 
no one gave attention to my out-stretched hand; 
Pro 1:25 
You were not controlled by my guiding, 
and would have nothing to do with my sharp words: 
Pro 1:26 
So in the day of your trouble I will be laughing; 
I will make sport of your fear; 
Pro 1:27 
When your fear comes on you like a storm, 
and your trouble like a rushing wind; 
when pain and sorrow come on you. 
Pro 1:28 
Then I will give no answer to their cries; 
searching for me early, they will not see me: 
Pro 1:29 
For they were haters of knowledge, 
and did not give their hearts to the fear of the Lord: 
Pro 1:30 
They had no desire for my teaching, 
and my words of protest were as nothing to them. 
Pro 1:31 
So the fruit of their way will be their food, 
and with the designs of their hearts they will be made full. 
Pro 1:32 
For the turning back of the simple from teaching 
will be the cause of their death, 
and the peace of the foolish 
will be their destruction. 
Pro 1:33 
But whoever gives ear to me 
will take his rest safely, 
living in peace without fear of evil. 
 
Sounds like the work of the Holy Spirit doesnt it.... 
 
Joh 14:24 
The one who does not love Me does not keep My Words. 
And the Word which you hear is not Mine 
but of the Father who sent Me. 
Joh 14:25 
I have spoken these things to you, 
abiding with you; 
Joh 14:26 
but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, 
whom the Father will send in My name, 
He shall teach you all things and shall remind you of all things that I said to you. 
Joh 14:27 
I leave peace to you; My peace I give to you. 
Not as the world gives I give to you. 
Let not your heart be troubled, nor let it be timid. 
Joh 14:28 
You heard that I said to you, 
I am going away, and I am coming again to you. 
If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I said, 
I am going to the Father; 
for My Father is greater than I. 
Joh 14:29 
And now I have told you before it occurs, 
that when it shall occur you may believe. 
 
 
If Jesus is God....how can He be greater than Himself? 
Do you see the contradictions? 
 
Who is wrong here...oneness or Jesus? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
"Seek ye out of the book of the LORD,and read: no one of these shall fail...Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things old and new...Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.” 
Isa.34:16a,Matt.13:52, 2Tim 4:2 
 
A false witness shall perish; but the man that obeyeth shall speak unchallenged. 
For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.Pro 21:28 Luk 21:15 
 
Jody ***Psalms 119***

by **biblebeliever** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:25 pm

I have yet to see anyone address any of the scriptures that I posted.

by **carpentersdaughter** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:33 pm

Biblebeliever, 
 
There has been quite a few questions for you, and you have evaded in anwsering them. 
 
Please answer them so we can understand where you are coming from. 
 
you did answer one about God and angels being a part of creations, but you have to realize to say that angels and God created man is to say that God is not capable of creating man Himself. 
 
God is all powerfull and God is everywhere, He does not need the help of angels to create. 
 
Why is it that we are working so hard to get you to see the truth? 
 
If this doctrine was so true, the majority of Christianity would hold this view, but the Oneness doctrine is held by only a few. 
 
This doctrine you hold so dearly is deadly, and we are greatly concerned for you. 
 
I am going to tell the rest of you something who don't know anything about the United Penecostal Church. 
 
Along with the Oneness doctrine, they also hold to the view that once you believe you NO LONGER SIN. 
 
Now, Terry and I have gone over and over and over with people who are into this church that just because you place your faith in Jesus does not mean you stop sinning, to no avail. 
 
They hold on dearly to the fact that they are no longer sinners and do not sin anymore. 
 
People, this is a cult, and it is one to flee from when confronted by those who hold on to this cult. 
 
There is no place in scriptures that state we stop sinning, but this church teaches otherwise. 
 
Biblebleiever, it's not an accident you made your statement of faith today. The Holy Spirit is trying to teach you the truth, and you must turn from this belief. 
 
We are praying for you and love you, even though we have not seen you. We can love you because of the work of the Holy Spirit, and we desperately want you to know the truth. 
 
I know you think you have the truth, so do those who hold to the Mormon and Jehovah's Witness Faith. they hold on to it with their very souls. They don't realize that believing their lies isn't going to save them. They already believe they will be saved by their works. 
 
Biblebeliever, you are holding on to a lie, and I plead with you to put aside this doctrine, and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you into the truth. 
 
If it wasn't that important, we would not be here with you and pleading with you to turn from this belief. 
 
God does not ask us to understand, He commands us to have faith, and it is by faith that understanding comes.

by **biblebeliever** on Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:57 pm

Just because alot of people dont believe it, doesnt mean its not truth. I know Im in the truth,how about you? Remember Lot and Noah.

by **Kraelor** on Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:51 am

Hmm, Jesus also stated that no one knows the time of the second coming but the Father, namely God. Jesus doesn't even know, neither do the angels or the Holy Spirit. Only God. -- 
 
Life of bittersweet torment, why dost thou inflict me so?

by **SherreeL** on Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:26 am

I agree with your post, Linda. My mother-in-law got caught up in the belief that she didn't sin anymore along with some of the other teachings in the Oneness theory and it cost her her life. So, biblebeliever, this is not something you need to be involved in. Please open your heart and allow the Holy Spirit to show you " The Way". Sherree 
Phil.3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection

by **carpentersdaughter** on Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:09 am

Biblebeliever, 
 
There were many, many people who followed Jim Jones and his doctrine, to their death. 
 
These people could not be convinced that Jim Jones was not a prophet. 
 
Jim Jones believed his own lies, and finally denied that there even was a god, and taught that he had powers no other man had. 
 
So, so many people died in their sins believing this lie. 
 
My point is, you are believing a lie and you really need to put aside this teaching, get into God's Word, and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you the truth about who God really is. 
 
Please answer the questions Jody has put to you, they are legitimate questions that you need to answer. 
 
I know you love God, I can see that in your posts, there is no question about your love for God, but please, go through the scriptures Jody gave to you and put aside this teaching so the Holy Spirit can show you 
 
We love you Biblebeliever.<img src=http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_2_104.gif ALT=":hugs">

by **Be still** on Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:16 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>We love you Biblebeliever. <img src=http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_2_104.gif ALT=":hugs"> <hr></blockquote> 
 
<img src=http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/signs/amen.png ALT=":amen"> Sister Karen 
 
"Be still, and know that I am God! I am exalted among the nations, I am exalted in the earth." Psalm 46:10 
 
“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 14:6

by **JCWatchin** on Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:18 am

HTML Comments are not allowed

by **Thenolos** on Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:56 am

Biblebeliever: 
 
The son and the father are separate, the son and the father are one. It is both. This requires understanding: 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>John: 
 
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 
 
2The same was in the beginning with God. 
 
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 
 
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 
 
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.<hr></blockquote> 
 
This is a grand mystery. Christ wants the same unity between believers that he has with the father. 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one[/b].<hr></blockquote> 
 
You say you have researched this all so thoroughly, and yet you seem to forget the many scriptures that go directly against your pet theories. Pray for understanding. 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Philippians 2: 
 
5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 
6Who, being in very nature God, 
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, 
taking the very nature of a servant, 
being made in human likeness. 
8And being found in appearance as a man, 
he humbled himself 
and became obedient to death— 
even death on a cross! 
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place 
and gave him the name that is above every name, 
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, 
in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, 
to the glory of God the Father.<hr></blockquote> 
 
Please see the truth. You have such an obvious zeal for the word of the Lord! Please accept all of it, and not just portions. 
 
 
Grace and Peace, 
Tony 
 
<hr /> 
Even the fact that one is a king in his fantasy world does not erode the fact that his world is a fantasy. 
 
Tribulation strengthens the Saints. Wrath destroys the wicked.  
Edited by: <A HREF=http://p203.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thenolos>Thenolos</A> at: 11/8/05 1:57 pm

by **JCWatchin** on Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:28 pm

God bless you brother ! Really ! 
 
Question: 
 
I'm a non believer, seeking the truth. My heart is being tugged at by God to learn more. I come to you, not knowing anything about scripture, God, Jesus etc. and I ask you "biblebeliever, what must I do to be saved ?" 
 
Pretending we are both in the 1st century and neither of us have a new testament yet, what is your answer to me ? I want desparately to be saved !! Help me please !

by **Kandycares** on Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:04 pm

I am in a Pentecostal church and we do not believe in "oneness" or that "we don't sin anymore." And though we believe in tongues, healings, and miracles, I have not noticed any kind of focus on those topics. 
 
My Pentecostal church even teaches about end times, believes Jesus is coming soon, and is mid-trib. 
 
They preach directly from the Bible while we follow along in our own Bibles. They tell it like it is and don't beat around the bush so as not to offend anybody.

by **panda** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:42 am

Kandy, That sounds like a really great church!

by **JCWatchin** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:13 am

Panda, 
 
Nothing at all wrong with a good Pentecostal church (just not a UPC or oneness one though IMHO) - Nothing at all like a good Pentecostal worship service ! I just had to leave it for awhile unitl I figured out the whole tongues thing. Still have some questions about it, but nothing to hold me from attending and embracing a truely bible-based Pentecostal assembly. 
 
Biblebeliever: I'm still waiting on your guidance in terms of my salvation... can you help ?

by **carpentersdaughter** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:28 am

It's the United Pentecostal Church that teaches this doctrine of Oneness and no one sins after believeing. There are other doctrines they teach that are off, but these are the main two that we need to watch out for. 
 
Most Pentecostal Churches are just fine.

by **biblebeliever** on Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:14 am

JCWatching,Jesus was with the diciples for forty days before His acension,so I believe He told Peter what to preach to the people.The first serman you hear is Peter and when the people ask him what they needed to do he told them, acts 2:38 repent and be baptised everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. We believe after you are saved that you are not supposed to willingly sin,and if you do sin you are to repent because the bible says sin separates you from God.As far as one God, His name is Jesus. Heres a good study on that- 
 
It's not a good idea to promote a site that is full of heresy. I take full responsibility for removing this site. Linda Edited by: <A HREF=http://p203.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=carpentersdaughter>carpentersdaughter</A> at: 11/10/05 9:47 am

by **JCWatchin** on Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:40 am

Thanks for the response and link biblebeliever ! 
 
More questions if you dont mind ? : 
 
Ok... I really believe the gospel and I have a repentant heart before God. I renounce my old lifestyle and ask Jesus to come and take total control of my life from this point forward... 
 
now... 
 
If I dont get baptized, will I be saved ? 
 
If I DO get baptized but the pastor baptizes me in the name of the "Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit"... is my baptism valid ? 
 
Assuming my baptism is valid, what if I dont speak with tongues .... will I be saved ?

by **perigrini** on Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:39 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Link removed<hr></blockquote> 
This link promotes a heresy known as Sabellianism...just FYI. 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> 
 
Sabellianism 
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. 
Jump to: navigation, search 
In Christianity, Sabellianism (also known as modalism) is the second-century belief that the three persons of the Trinity are merely different modes or aspects of God, rather than three distinct persons. It is attributed to Sabellius, who taught a form of this doctrine in Rome in the second century. Hippolytus knew Sabellius personally and mentioned him in the Philosophumena. He knew Sabellius disliked Trinitarian theology, yet he called Modal Monarchism the heresy of Noetos, not that of Sabellius. Sabellianism was embraced by Christians in Cyrenaica, to whom Demetrius, Patriarch of Alexandria, wrote letters arguing against this belief. 
 
Another name for this doctrine is Patripassianism from the Latin words patris for "father", and passus for "to suffer". This name was given because the doctrine implies that God the Father came to earth and suffered in the form of God the Son. Some Trinitarians argue that Sabellianism logically leads to Nestorianism. 
 
Today, Sabellianism is rejected by most types of Christianity. It is accepted primarily by some Pentecostal groups, sometimes referred to as Oneness Pentecostals or "Jesus Only" Pentecostals. 
 
Historic Sabellianism taught that God the Father was the only person of the Godhead, as do Oneness Pentecostals today. This teaching proports that the identity of God the Father and Jesus is the same. According to this belief, the terms "Father" and "Holy Spirit" both describe the one God who dwelt in Jesus. Some Oneness detractors call this the "Jesus-Only doctrine". 
 
Retrieved from "<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism"">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism"</a><hr></blockquote> 
 
 
edit: I removed link as moderator removed it from post I was quoting. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p203.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=perigrini>perigrini</A> at: 11/10/05 9:51 am