Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

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Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Fri May 22, 2015 8:56 am

*Snips*

In the wake of a tabloid report alleging that he molested several underage girls while he was a teenager, reality-television star Josh Duggar said Thursday that he “acted inexcusably” and was “deeply sorry” for what he called “my wrongdoing.”

The 27-year-old Duggar, a high-profile member of the evangelical Christian family that stars on TLC’s “19 Kids and Counting,” also resigned his post with the Family Research Council, a conservative lobbying organization.


The Duggars have previously promoted the teachings of Bill Gothard and the Institute in Basic Life Principles, a conservative organization that was once popular among the Christian homeschooling movement. Gothard resigned from the institute he founded in 2014, after allegations of sexual harassment, molestation and failing to report child abuse.


Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

There are over 1700 comments to this article which I haven't started to read yet, but I imagine there will be a wide variety of opinions.

And from In faith communities like the Duggars, abuse victims are encouraged to be filled with grace. It’s not that simple OP By Mary DeMuth.

Often we see in communities of faith that victims are admonished to be grace-like, offering instant forgiveness to their abuser as if it could be dolled out like a trinket or candy. And when someone is pressured to “be like Jesus” and forgive swiftly, often this pressure causes harm.

Sexual violation cuts deeply. It eats away at worth, esteem and personhood. I believe it is one of Satan’s greatest weapons against humanity, paving the road for future self-destructive behavior, suicidal thoughts, feelings of utter worthlessness, sexual dysfunction, guilt, shame and any manner of disorders. And moving beyond it is excruciating, long and sometimes debilitating.


I don’t know the dynamic of the Duggar home other than what’s portrayed on TV and through their public statements yesterday. I hope and pray that they are working through this very dark issue and finding hope and healing through honesty and authenticity. But I also hope that this situation doesn’t shame victims into thinking they’re less-than if they struggle still to forgive the person who stole their innocence.


Sexual sin will be the downfall of our country imo as well as the ruination of relationships.

Many are calling for their reality show to be terminated. What do you think? If you watch the program, will you see it differently based on these allegations?
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Keeping Alert on Sun May 24, 2015 8:04 pm

No excuse for his sins... but it seemed that he was quite courageous to face up to it later on in life even before this news came up... he went for counseling, told his wife about it 2 years before they got married, etc... Well, his credibility and ministry will be affected for sure, but my heart with this man...
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

πατερ δοξασον σου το ονομα
Father, glorify thy name.

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Mon May 25, 2015 4:00 am

My heart is with his victims.

I see nothing courageous about a young 14 yr. old sneaking around in the dark to sexually molest his sisters.

I read the 33 pg. police report and for his father and mother to wait an entire year before reporting this crime is unconscionable. I also read that Jim Bob did not want Josh to attend a credible treatment program as he thought it would contribute to more information about sexual abuse than he wanted for Josh. So he was sent to a friend of Jim Bob's in Little Rock for 4 months and helped him with some remodeling. That is not a treatment program.

Some reports say that Josh attended a faith-based treatment program (Basic Life Principles Training Center) founded by Bill Gothard who had himself was accused of molesting over 30 women and resigned from ministry. link

TLC had pulled the program from their listing.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby burien1 on Mon May 25, 2015 6:35 am

Did the girls want this public for the whole world to be discussing ? I doubt it. They are the ones being victimized all over again.

We reap what we sow, but I am so glad it is my Lord who forgives my sins, and not the unsaved, or even fellow Christians.


Galatians 6:1~ Brethren, even if a man be overtaken in any trespass, ye who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; looking to thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
. . . . . . .
3. For if a man thinketh himself to be something when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.


Lest we forget, none of us are above sinning
Psalm 119:105; Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Mon May 25, 2015 7:15 am

Well, I'm thinking it takes courage for victims to come forth about crimes committed against them. They've done nothing to be ashamed of.

Had the first victim reported it promptly, it may have saved 5-6 additional girls from being molested. Actually, Josh's father evidently is partly to blame since he withheld the information for allegedly a year when it should have been reported to law enforcement or a dept. of children and families. Both sexual molestation and incest are crimes. As for his age, some 14 yr. olds who have murdered have been tried as adults due to the nature of the crime, so he's not getting a pass due to his age. Besides, even if the family didn't claim to be Christian, the fact that he was sneaking around at night in the dark is evidence that he knew it was wrong.

Let's not forget that our federal, state, and civil governments are ordained for the protection of the citizens. Their job is to enforce laws and apply appropriate punishment/penalty relative to the law broken. We are answerable to the governing authorities and Jesus chided the Pharisees for ignoring justice.

There is far too much covering up of sexual crimes happening among believers.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Jericho on Mon May 25, 2015 8:34 am

There is far too much covering up of sexual crimes happening among believers.


Not to condone what he did, but I can sorta understand why they would keep it quiet. His life would have been over at 14. This is one of the few sexual sins that society still reviles over. Once it's committed they are branded with a scarlet "P" and shunned for life. A person could commit murder, do their time, and be accepted back into society but there is no acceptance when it comes to this. So I have mixed feelings about it. Don't get me wrong I think it's horrible, but from a Christian perspective is there any sin too great for God to forgive? I tend to think if someone is punished for their crimes and is truly repentant, it should be forgiven if not forgotten. Otherwise how do they move forward? They are trapped in sort of a limbo for the rest of their natural lives.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Mon May 25, 2015 9:15 am

Jericho wrote: I tend to think if someone is punished and is truly repentant, it should be forgotten or at least forgiven. Otherwise how do they move forward? They are trapped in limbo for the rest of their natural lives.


Jericho, you may want to research the repercussions of molestation and sexual assault on the victims. It's far more tragic and imposing in their everyday lives and relationships. Years from now many people may not even remember Josh Dugger, but there are women who will suffer irreparable psychological damage as the result of an assault against their bodies.

I was shopping for groceries several weeks ago, and was waiting for the manager at the meat dept. There was a young woman who was an employee there and she was talking with another woman near me. A gentleman came up behind her to ask a simple question and she jumped 5 ft. in the air with a terrified look on her face. She was embarrassed and apologized. I saw her later on another aisle and asked her if she'd ever been assaulted or sexually abused. Her answer was yes and did not surprise me one bit. I immediately recognized her reaction as hyper-vigilance.

I know a woman who was molested years ago by a dentist and cannot stay in a dentist chair for more than 5 minutes 40 yrs. later. Another friend of mine went to the doctor and when he tried to touch her neck to check for lumps, she ducked and the tears told him that something had triggered that reaction.

Sure counseling helps victims somewhat, but the hyper-vigilance will remain forever as naturally as the reaction your knee has when it's hit with that little hammer at the doctor's office. Ask me how I know....

No, I feel little sympathy for the perpetrator but much compassion for his victims. Perpetrators and predators should do their repenting in prison where the law has done it's job in protecting others from undeserved lifetime consequences.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby GodsStudent on Tue May 26, 2015 2:22 am

Abiding in His Word wrote:
Jericho wrote: I tend to think if someone is punished and is truly repentant, it should be forgotten or at least forgiven. Otherwise how do they move forward? They are trapped in limbo for the rest of their natural lives.


Jericho, you may want to research the repercussions of molestation and sexual assault on the victims. It's far more tragic and imposing in their everyday lives and relationships. Years from now many people may not even remember Josh Dugger, but there are women who will suffer irreparable psychological damage as the result of an assault against their bodies.

I was shopping for groceries several weeks ago, and was waiting for the manager at the meat dept. There was a young woman who was an employee there and she was talking with another woman near me. A gentleman came up behind her to ask a simple question and she jumped 5 ft. in the air with a terrified look on her face. She was embarrassed and apologized. I saw her later on another aisle and asked her if she'd ever been assaulted or sexually abused. Her answer was yes and did not surprise me one bit. I immediately recognized her reaction as hyper-vigilance.

I know a woman who was molested years ago by a dentist and cannot stay in a dentist chair for more than 5 minutes 40 yrs. later. Another friend of mine went to the doctor and when he tried to touch her neck to check for lumps, she ducked and the tears told him that something had triggered that reaction.

Sure counseling helps victims somewhat, but the hyper-vigilance will remain forever as naturally as the reaction your knee has when it's hit with that little hammer at the doctor's office. Ask me how I know....

No, I feel little sympathy for the perpetrator but much compassion for his victims. Perpetrators and predators should do their repenting in prison where the law has done it's job in protecting others from undeserved lifetime consequences.


Excellent post, Abiding, and no, I don't think most people know. PTSD....that's something that comes out of long term abuse, ask me how I know....and crazy enough, trauma in my 20s (over an 8 yr period as a victim of a stalker) has been "reinstated" in my late 40s due to other trauma in my life that retriggered the difficulties. Living with PTSD now is no picnic. I am isolating, depressed, sleeping too much, anxious in crowds and social situations, struggling to get or keep an appetite (sometimes not just for food, either), and....back in therapy.... :( to try to "get a grip." I know that therapy is not my ultimate answer, Christ is and will be, but I do get good feedback which helps me get a plan going and think through what I'm doing and what I want to do...now. Oh, and I was in therapy for 7 LONG years in my 20s both during and after the stalking and abuse, which my state called "domestic violence" and treated as though it was "consented to" by me, even though I tried to get away from this guy after 3 or so months. It took me 7 years for him to stop showing up anywhere and everywhere I went at any time....and people can say "call the police" all they want, but it took them 20-30 minutes to get to me, and I had to be able to call them in the first place....so the only way to stay alive was to "play the game" with the perp. I am happy to report that my particular case was a big part of new laws that came into play...and that I made it through the 7 dangerous years (many women don't in that same situation I was in).

I recall arguing over the death penalty in college and the position I took was that the perp had a choice and the victim didn't. In those cases, heinous crimes accompany the seeking of such, but really, in all circumstances, it is true that the perp can and should seek treatment of their issues prior to acting out and demoralizing other human beings. I know that mental illness is in the background of a lot of these folks who commit such crimes....but in our country, we don't head things off at the path....we wait until crimes are committed and treat everything as criminal when in fact it's abuse on top of abuse, really...but that's a whole different story.....

IMO, in a better system, we would stop giving money to people just because they don't want to work and start using that money to rehabilitate those same people and many more who show signs of having issues in their thinking and acting....starting with our children who exhibit symptoms of starting out with issues.....but it's a fact that we as a society don't see it that way....we just wait for crimes so we can fund our criminal justice system and make it big, really big....sick, imo.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Exit40 on Tue May 26, 2015 7:00 am

Abiding in His Word wrote:Sure counseling helps victims somewhat, but the hyper-vigilance will remain forever as naturally as the reaction your knee has when it's hit with that little hammer at the doctor's office. Ask me how I know....


Abiding, bless you for your work in this area. Post traumatic stress disorder is a terrible thing to deal with as it goes to the very core of our physical being, our instincts for survival. And it works it way out into our lives in our relationships with virtually everything and everyone. Unfortunately it carries a stigma with it also affecting it's victims. That is in part from the very name which includes the word, disorder. To label a victim of trauma with this very word suggests to them there is indeed something wrong with them beyond their ability to control, especially when they are told there is no cure for it, that it will be with them for the rest of their lives. It is in fact a normal response to extraordinary circumstances. To be told it is a disorder is to further stigmatize the victim, it is a disorder to only those who do not have it, and are not able to comprehend it. I respectfully suggest to care providers to eliminate that word from the condition. I believe restating the name of this condition will be beneficial to the victim in that it will relieve the burden of guilt/stigma for even having it. This is not to play up victim hood, but rather to express a more compassionate understanding.

That a perpetrator of sex crime has to bear a stigma of guilt for a lifetime brought to bear by civil law can hardly be called just compensation for the victim. Yet it is somewhat of a relief to know, they are being watched.

God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby keithareilly on Tue May 26, 2015 10:36 am

Abiding wrote
No, I feel little sympathy for the perpetrator but much compassion for his victims. Perpetrators and predators should do their repenting in prison where the law has done it's job in protecting others from undeserved lifetime consequences.


Prison is not repentance. Repentance is first a choice (option) then a decision to take the choice for oneself. Like a fork in the road and choosing the fork labeled repentance then continuing to walk down it the rest of your life, never forking off the road.

Part of our salvation is the power to overcome sin. So long as he continues on the road of repentance, he is an example of the power of the cross to overcome sin. Like it or not, he may be God's example to other predators that they can change; that is, per Roman's, be rescued from their body of death.

Abiding,

regarding consequences later in life...
Every person I have met who has been sexually abused became promiscuous as a consequence. Nearly every woman has become sexually predatory with regards to men. I don't judge them for this. It is a consequence of there experience. They are who they are. I do not think they should go to jail though their behavior is tantamount to date rape. I appreciate there is a double standard for men and women with regard to interaction between adults (not children).

The shepherd leaves the flock to bring back the wayward sheep. Why? Because the wayward sheep is just as important as each of the sheep that are not wayward. As parents we do not sacrifice one child for the others unless we have no way to choose all of our children.

With regards to grace...
If a Christian cannot forgive those who wrong him/her, then he/she will not be able to forgive those who have wronged others in the same manner. Even after Christ has forgiven that person, this person will not be able to forgive. In behaving this way, this Christian places his/her own judgment ahead of Christ's judgment.

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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby extravagantchristian on Tue May 26, 2015 12:03 pm

The cornerstone of Christianity is forgiveness and redemption through the blood of Jesus. There is a time for punishment and a time for restoration We have to remember this happened along time ago. If it were my son i would probably beat him until he was crippled, but i wouldn't stop loving him. And who are we to say that his parents didn't deal with it in the right way? They took him to the police station, so that doesn't sound like they turned a blind eye.
I Was molested as achild and ateen. Yes iwas angry for atime, but the thing that allowed me to get over that anger was just realizing that we're all going to face God someday to give an account for our lives. There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. Every secret thing done in the dark will be brought to the light. I would much rather be in my shoes , than in the sites of my abuser. It's a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Shoes, not sites. My phone is messed up
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Tue May 26, 2015 12:39 pm

If a Christian cannot forgive those who wrong him/her, then he/she will not be able to forgive those who have wronged others in the same manner.


Hi Keith,

This is not about male vs. female perpetrators or even about repentance or forgiveness. This is about sexual abuse of children, the most vulnerable victims. It's also about the propensity of this abuse and the rate of recidivism if left undiagnosed, properly treated, publicly recognized and penalized according to the law.

The Jerry Sanduskys, Doug Phillips, Bill Gothards, and Roman Catholic priests must be recognized for the deliberate, intentional grooming and abuse toward younger/underage children and they are answerable to the legal stipulations in the state in which they reside.

We're not talking about sexual affairs like those of Jim Bakker or Jimmy Swagggart who had sex with consenting adults. We can recognize them as hypocrites and sinners and have a lengthy debate about whether or not they should return to ministry, but that's not what Josh Duggar's actions involve.

There's another Christian man, a member of Matt Chandler's Village Church who has confessed to years of child pornography. His wife has had their marriage annulled and the church is focusing on her rather and the fact that she did not get their permission before getting the annulment. Ignoring the red flags and misdirected action leads to further problems for all members who may be unaware that there's a sexual abuser/predator in their midst.

I've not researched it, but the word on the street is that child sexual molesters are prey for other prisoners who apparently recognize the seriousness of the crime against the innocent and vulnerable. We must also recognize it and stand firm in the application of whatever federal/state/civil laws and/or treatment are appropriate for the sake of our children.

Jesus mentioned a millstone as a punishment for harming innocent children.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Tue May 26, 2015 12:54 pm

extravagantchristian wrote: And who are we to say that his parents didn't deal with it in the right way? They took him to the police station, so that doesn't sound like they turned a blind eye.


Well, this may be of interest regarding Jim Bob's friend to whom he sent Josh for "counseling."

Arkansas State Trooper, Jim Hutchens. Jim Bob knew Hutchens personally. Hutchens did not take any official action and instead gave Josh a “very stern talk.” As In Touch magazine reports exclusively in this week’s issue, Hutchens is now serving 56-years in prison for child pornography. He took no action on the Duggar case.


I Was molested as achild and ateen.


I'm so sorry, extravagantchristian. I do believe God can heal past pain caused by any traumatic incident and I'm thanking Him for your apparent healing in this regard.

:hugs:
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby keithareilly on Tue May 26, 2015 9:24 pm

Abiding,

What do you want from a sinner if not repentance from sin?
Is repentance and forgiveness not enough?

These molested children still have there lives ahead of them.
Steven, who was stoned, was dead, with no more good works to be accomplished by him.
Should the apostle Paul have been put in prison for Steven's murder and not allowed to accomplish the good he accomplished?

Love covers a multitude of sins; Including child molestation. I think things should be left to be family to worked out among the victims and perpetrator. Which apparently it was years ago.

I know a woman who was molested by both brothers. One brother became a Christian and she forgave him because he repented of his life. The other did not and she has not forgiven him and probably will not lest he accepts Christ.
But, she has no desire to see him in jail or persecuted for his actions. She is forgiving.
She would not appreciate others calling for his incarceration. She would not bear witness to it and see him put away.
Like the woman who cleansed Christ's feet with her tears, she loves a lot.

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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Wed May 27, 2015 3:41 am

keithareilly wrote:What do you want from a sinner if not repentance from sin?
Is repentance and forgiveness not enough?


Keith, are you suggesting that Christians are or should be exempt from the consequences of breaking the law? Because child molestation has serious consequences.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby keithareilly on Wed May 27, 2015 5:51 am

Abiding,

What I am suggesting is that the parents have worked out the best good for all of their children, not just the victims, not just the perpetrator.

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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Wed May 27, 2015 7:32 am

keithareilly wrote:What I am suggesting is that the parents have worked out the best good for all of their children, not just the victims, not just the perpetrator.


But they didn't do what was best, Keith. By ignoring the problem for over a year, they not only put their other children at risk, but neglected the very important lesson in life that crime has serious consequences and those who abuse children (especially their sisters) have to suffer the consequences. The reluctance of the parents to handle this properly was most like an effort to maintain the image of the perfectly happy Christian family and keep the revenue coming in from TLC (which has cancelled their show btw). The officer who was a friend of Jim Bob's was a predator himself.

I think it's fair to believe it would not have come to light had it not been discovered in a letter inadvertently left in a book that was found later. Even the church covered it and who knows how many children Josh had access to over those years. It's my understanding that Josh graduated up to sexually abusing siblings while they were awake and in front of others. We may see other victims come forth as this behavior is of a predatory nature imo.

He needed certified, professional counseling and church members needed to be made aware that they needed to keep close watch on their children. Josh should be denied access or ministry that involves children and even his own children need to be watched carefully.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby mark s on Wed May 27, 2015 3:14 pm

I agree, Abiding. Consequences must not be ignored. Chances must not be taken. When this becomes known, it must be stopped, and children must be protected. Consequences to the victims can be lifelong.

Ask me how I know . . .

Love in Christ,
Mark

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ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby keithareilly on Wed May 27, 2015 3:57 pm

Just because it was not reported to officials for a year does not mean the parents did nothing. That is an awfully big assumption. and probably not correct.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Wed May 27, 2015 4:20 pm

April was Child Abuse Prevention Month. Some very sad statistics are listed here for any who might be interested. Here's just a few:

Be aware that child sexual abuse is 75x more common than pediatric cancer.

Be aware that there is at least one child molester per square mile in the United States.

Be aware that approximately 38% of all girls and 16% of boys will be sexually abused by their 18th birthday. With 75 million children in the United States, this translates to almost 15 million children who will be sexually victimized over the next 18 years.


:(
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby mark s on Wed May 27, 2015 4:21 pm

keithareilly wrote:Just because it was not reported to officials for a year does not mean the parents did nothing. That is an awfully big assumption. and probably not correct.


We can only guess what was and wasn't done. There are only assumptions in either direction.

So where is the accountability? What is our societal contract living in a land governed by law? Doesn't the willful concealment of a crime make one an accessory after the fact?

So you've got children being sexually abused, and the parents covering it up.

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Wed May 27, 2015 4:44 pm

mark s wrote:So you've got children being sexually abused, and the parents covering it up.


As I mentioned, I read the 33-pg. police report and Josh's mother admits that he didn't actually receive counseling. If I can find it again, I'll post the link here.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby keithareilly on Wed May 27, 2015 4:49 pm

What I think is this will become a witch hunt.

Who knew what when? All are guilty of cover up instead of trying to make the best of a really bad situation.

Love covers a multitude of sins. Love is the motivation for covering of such things.

Many will think fear is the motive. Yes, but fear for the ones you love.


Sure, many fear the wrong things but parents fear for the wellbeing of all their children.

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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Wed May 27, 2015 5:50 pm

Keith, when it was time for my son to visit a dentist, I saw to it that he regularly visited one even though he didn't want to go. He had too many teeth in his mouth and it was resolved by the expert in that field.

When my sons exhibited temper tantrums or disobedience, an appropriate penalty, time-out, restriction of privileges followed so they learned that consequences were the result of choosing those actions.

When they needed medical attention, we saw to it that they got it.

When they reached the age requiring schooling, we abided by compulsory laws regarding education and enrolled them. The first days were a bit traumatic for one of them, but he learned that crying was normal for some under the circumstances, but he was still going to go to school whether he liked it or not. (eventually he became an excellent student btw.:)

In his high school years, one of my sons got arrested for stealing. He was about 16 if I remember correctly. He had to go before the judge and was told to bring his parents to the next court date. His father and I did not think highly of this ruling since we felt strongly he needed to answer for his own actions at the age of 16. However, we went accompanied our son to court. At some point, the judge began to imply that children are products of their parental upbringing and I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I respectfully requested my son leave the courtroom so I could speak privately to the judge. He obliged me. I told the judge that parents aren't the only influences in the life of a child/teenager. There are neighbors, friends, teachers, and even parents of friends. I told him that we were Christians who were diligent in our training and that I was a stay-at-home mother who took her responsibility very seriously. I concluded by saying that we attended church faithfully and taught our boys biblical principles of faith, love, honesty, and respect. He didn't seem impressed and set a court date stating that we would need to have an attorney to represent our son at that hearing.

His father and I decided we would not provide an attorney and told our son that it would be his responsibility to find one and arrange for a payment plan himself. (he was working part-time at a pizzeria.) He went to school whining and complaining about how mean his parents were and one teacher said she had a friend who would represent him pro-bono. My son attended the court date without us and with that attorney who didn't charge him a dime - all because his mean parents insisted he learned that actions have consequences. Did he learn that? Somewhat I guess but mostly the lesson learned was that blaming his parents got the results that made his job easier...thanks to some enablers who believed him.

The point is that parents have a responsibility to do the hard things in training their children. We shed tears at many of the difficult circumstances that required "tough love" but we realized that we had to answer for doing our part and they had to answer for theirs.

Parenting is difficult and rewarding at the same time. There are some things a parent can overlook and some they can't. Sexual molestation needed swift action by the Duggar parents for the sake of getting the necessary help for Josh and for the safety and protection of the victims both past and possibly future.

Here is a link to the police report. The names of the juvenile/minor parties have all been blacked out and the reading is tedious but the narrative interrogation begins on page 11.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby keithareilly on Wed May 27, 2015 8:03 pm

I read the whole thing.

Personally, I would have been more diligent regarding the topic with the other children.

Points to note.
1) Two incidents reported. Response to first incident insufficient to change behavior. Response to second incidence seems to have terminated the behavior.
2) Molester no longer given responsible for children where opportunity might be provided.
3) Church was contacted and behavior made known to elders (unverified in report).
4) Counseling not made available to girls
5) No new reported incidents since second incident. Approximately 12 years of no new known incidents.

Assuming there have been no new incidents, Josh may be no more of a potential danger than another person.
One might argue he is still a potential danger and that is a fair argument.
One might also argue that he is more keenly aware of what he must avoid and therefore poses less of a danger.
While children may be perfectly safe in his company now, a profession working with children is not something he should pursue for the sake of all involved, including himself.


Do I think he should be punished as in prison?
No. I can see no upside to prison as there are no known incident in twelve years; the behavior seems to have been changed; therefore, his current behavior is no danger to society.

What I see here is a boy whose behavior can be and was changed. Society is bettered by the change.

There is no current behavior from which to protect society by locking him away; there is no behavior to change through punishment.

Laws are made for making better society. The actions taken by the parents have accomplish the purpose of the law; therefore, the is no need to execute the law. Doing so would elevate the law to higher than its purpose which is the definition of legalism. The law was made for man not man for the law.

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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Thu May 28, 2015 4:57 am

Keith, while I respect your opinion and certainly your right to see this differently, I fail to understand the minimization of it's importance and the danger it presents to other children.

Page 13 of the report states incidents happening 4-5 times while the girls slept. It also mentions one time while one of the girls slept on the sofa. Another time while he (evidently) was reading to one who was sitting on his lap. Another time in the laundry room.

While Josh did confess to these molestations, he minimized them by neglecting to call them molestations; neglected to call them "sins" but chose to call them "wrong-doings", "acting inexcusably" and "past teenage mistakes." The confessions were made when Josh was/is 27 yrs. old, coming from a lifetime of Christian teachings, and obviously knows his actions as "sins."

Also, When his father was running for the Republican Senate in 2002 according to another report (now available only as cached version), he advocated death to a rapist and said rape and incest were " heinous crimes" and should be treated as capital crimes. Unless it involved his own son apparently as he has successfully helped Josh avoid prosecution for his crimes.

Sexual crimes by their very nature are committed in private and in darkness. They often go unreported by virtue of again, the very nature of the invasion of privacy of the body as well as the shame that results. They often come out when victims see other victims being courageous in reporting and they are old enough to understand that they have done nothing to be ashamed of and correctly lay the blame to the perpetrator. This was the case with the victims of Bill Cosby when 13 (If I remember correctly) women reported having been drugged/raped by him. The nature of sexual crimes makes it difficult if not impossible to know how many occurred that have gone unreported as the process is often grueling and embarrassing to victims in describing very personal violations.

I'm not going to join any effort to minimize molestation of his sisters and/or others. I also refuse to minimize the name of the crime as a mistake or wrong-doing but sexual molestation and sin. I also believe that using critical thinking skills and common sense, we cannot marginalize the seriousness of sneaking around in the dark after waiting for everyone to fall asleep to sexually molest his younger sisters. I also see the importance of their TLC series "19 Kids and Counting" to Duggar family's income and popularity as well as their image as the perfect, god-fearing Christian family as the underlying reason for sheltering their son from professional treatment.

We may someday hear "the rest of the story."
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby keithareilly on Thu May 28, 2015 5:20 am

Abiding,

I am not minimizing what was done.

Punishment is for the purpose of changing behavior. Prison is for the purpose of protecting society.
Currently, there is no behavior to be changed, no people from whom his behavior needs to be protected.

This leaves vengeance as the only motive for wanting to see him imprisoned.


Christ died so we could change, live a new life. Josh is living a new life just as the apostle Paul lived a new life.
I will not condemn him for what was forgiven by his victims when repentance is evident.

Matthew 7:2
For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.

I have forgiven people in my life and I have refrained from forgiving people.
Those to whom I have refrained are blatantly unrepentant, not struggling to over come sin, but glory in or make a decision to continue in their actions. Those I forgive have either repented and no longer continuing in sin or are continuing in sin but struggling to overcome it. I also consider is the person a loving person. I tend to overlook sins of really loving people. Is the sin a consequence of sins against them earlier in life and how deeply ingrained is the sin and are they ready to tackle that sin at this time. A few other things come in to play at times.

This is my measure with regards to Matthew 7:2.
Again, I am not minimizing what Josh has done. I am applying my measure.

What is your measure?

Keith
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby keithareilly on Thu May 28, 2015 5:57 am

Consider that Josh's actions came to light by a letter found in a book but only after the statute of limitations was reached. God could have caused this letter to be found before the statute of limitations expired, He could have kept it hidden for eternity. Instead God cause this to come to light but only after the statute of limitations expired.

What I think is God moved the letter's author to write the letter and forget about it after placing it in the book to be later loaned. Then God waited until the statute expired to bring the situation to light.

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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby extravagantchristian on Thu May 28, 2015 11:05 am

It's not our place to judge. That's God's job. He's a righteous judge.
It's not our place to accuse, that's Satan's job. he's really good at it!
All we can really do to help is pray for those involved.

I always wondered why all the girls have to share one room and all the boys have to share one room, now I understand why, it's for their protection. No one can sneak in and do anything in secret, anymore. As our brothers and sisters in Christ, the parents deserve the benefit of the doubt, that they did what was necessary to protect the girls and punish the son. We shouldn't assume the worst.

That's what the world is doing right now, they're jumping to conclusions and assuming that the parents didn't do everything they could to help. They devoted a whole hour to condemning Michelle and Jim Bob on CNN last night, pretending to know all the facts. God will have the last laugh.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Thu May 28, 2015 1:07 pm

extravagantchristian wrote:It's not our place to judge. That's God's job. He's a righteous judge.
It's not our place to accuse, that's Satan's job. he's really good at it!
All we can really do to help is pray for those involved.


extravagantchristian, based on what you've said about judging, I take it you would never serve on a jury. Or have you? When the jury receives all the facts presented by the prosecution, and the jury goes into deliberation, would you find it reasonable for a jurist to warn the others about satan being the accuser and refuse to participate in condemning the one on trial for murder, rape, or selling drugs to school age children?

I always wondered why all the girls have to share one room and all the boys have to share one room, now I understand why, it's for their protection. No one can sneak in and do anything in secret, anymore. As our brothers and sisters in Christ, the parents deserve the benefit of the doubt, that they did what was necessary to protect the girls and punish the son. We shouldn't assume the worst.


How do you know Josh was sneaking around and doing something in secret? How do you know the parents punished their son?

That's what the world is doing right now, they're jumping to conclusions and assuming that the parents didn't do everything they could to help. They devoted a whole hour to condemning Michelle and Jim Bob on CNN last night, pretending to know all the facts. God will have the last laugh.


Do you believe it's wrong to examine evidence of an admitted crime against others and discuss it? For example, is it wrong for Holly to examine the evidence pertaining to the NAR and arrive at a conclusion and exposes the errors? What do you mean by "condemning" Michelle and Jim Bob? Do you believe in righteous judgement? Should we abide by federal, state, and civic laws and expect fair and just punishment for crime that violates those laws? Doesn't scripture say that these governing authorities are ordained by God "for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil."

Surely, if someone confesses to murdering his wife, we wouldn't say "it's not up to us to judge".... If a police officer stops me for going through a red light, should I tell him he can't "judge me"....that's God's job.

If Josh confessed to his parents about his molestations, do you really think it was wise for them to refuse to send him to a credible, certified, professional treatment center? Can we really overlook the fact that he was sent to help a friend of Jim Bob's with some construction work? Can that be called treatment? Especially when that friend is now is prison serving 56 years for sexual crimes himself?

Had these sexual crimes against the children been reported on a timely basis to the proper authorities, Josh would have received appropriate treatment. He did not.

ETA: "They devoted a whole hour to condemning Michelle and Jim Bob on CNN last night, pretending to know all the facts."

I don't find this offensive in the least nor unusual. The Duggars were a very public family who portrayed very high morals and values and did so publicly. Their children were on public display and expressed much of the family traditions, expectations, and systems that helped facilitate so many living in a crowded environment. It's natural that those who have followed their story or regularly watched their very public lives, are surprised and disappointed to find they were not as perfect a family as was portrayed. While I have not watched the program, I have seen photos of the family all dressed exactly the same and I personally found that strange.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Mark F on Fri May 29, 2015 3:54 am

Where is the evidence that the molestations continued and or continues? I am missing that, I have read of the events in which he originally confessed at age 14 or so, but I have not read that any accusations have been made since.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Fri May 29, 2015 3:58 am

*snips*

reviewing thousands of published and unpublished rulings by state appellate and federal courts in 2014 that pertain to churches, I am able to identify the top five reasons churches go to court.


Here are the top five:

1. Sexual abuse of minors (11.7 percent of cases). Sadly, for several years the sexual molestation of minors has been the number one reason that churches went to court. Victims in these cases generally allege that a church is responsible for their injuries on the basis of negligent selection, retention, or supervision of the perpetrator. Churches have lost many of these cases due to their failure to implement appropriate safeguards in the selection and supervision of employees and volunteers who work with minors.

Incidents of sexual misconduct involving minor victims can be devastating to the victim, the victim's family, the offender, church leadership, and the church itself.


Continues Church Law and Tax
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby keithareilly on Fri May 29, 2015 8:06 am

Mark F wrote:Where is the evidence that the molestations continued and or continues? I am missing that, I have read of the events in which he originally confessed at age 14 or so, but I have not read that any accusations have been made since.


None so far mark.

For the topic, Abiding is asking for opinions. and opinions are strong both ways on this topic. The ramifications can be life long for the victims, causing suicide, depression, and a host of problems that may not be able to be reversed. The punishments can never truly balance the scales but are pretty light in comparison to the harm that can be caused. Those of us who have experienced this or who have had loved ones who have experienced this have pretty strongly held views on the topic. The anger can be so deep forgiveness is nearly impossible; but the anger is not the main concern. The main concern is heinousness of the outcome for the victims. It destroys lives, families and society. Because passions are so strong, it can be dangerous to make the situation public; yet, keeping it in the dark is even more dangerous because it can propagate like a contagious disease. To strike a balance when dealing child abuse can be difficult because child abuse can be likened to the witch hunts of old; find everyone involved in the practice or supporting the practice and cleanse society of them.

Calm heads are needed but so are the passions of people who understand the full ramifications so it is not downplayed to the public at large.

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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Fri May 29, 2015 9:39 am

Mark F wrote:Where is the evidence that the molestations continued and or continues? I am missing that, I have read of the events in which he originally confessed at age 14 or so, but I have not read that any accusations have been made since.


Mark, due to the very nature of the crime, it's not likely to produce evidence as quickly as we might want nor in the manner we would hope. The reason should be obvious as the child(ren) may experience emotions foreign to them and may fear the consequences of telling since they may have been threatened. In other words, lots of reasons for a delay of evidence.

Here's the primary reason for concern:

*snips*

Prentky et al. (1997) examined recidivism rates on 115 child molesters and concluded that: (1) child molesters remain at risk to reoffend long after their discharge, in some cases 15-20 years after discharge; (2) there is a marked underestimation of recidivism rates.

Likewise, a review by the American Psychological Association (2003) concluded that "the research demonstrates that even sexual offenses against children that occurred long ago evince a continuing risk of recidivism by the offender."


Another perspective on the problem is offered by Anna Salter, one of the foremost experts on sex offenders in the country. She writes the following in her popular book Predators:

"The dry research figures only confirm what I have seen over and over in this field: there are a lot of sexual offenses out there and the people who commit them don't get caught very often. When an offender is caught and has a thorough evaluation with a polygraph backup, he will reveal dozens, sometimes hundreds of offenses he was never apprehended for. In an unpublished study by Pamela Van Wyk, 26 offenders in her incarcerated treatment program entered the program admitting an average of 3 victims each. Faced with a polygraph and the necessity of passing it to stay in the treatment program, the next group of 23 men revealed an average of 175 victims each."


more

So, while it's entirely possible that Josh may never molest again and we pray he does not, he most likely could have been properly evaluated by a credible, professional treatment program. And his family would be notified of necessary precautions and systems of monitoring for the safety of other potential victims.

And given the prevalence of this type of crime world-wide?, we need to be aware and investigate places where these types of individuals gravitate that gives them access to children; i.e. daycare, playgrounds, children's "church", scouting, etc. to make sure background checks are done. And of course, children should be educated about improper touching.

Josh was Executive Director of FRC Action at the Family Research Council, a Christian nonprofit organization based in Washington, D.C. and I believe spoke out against LGBT community as a threat to children's safety. I don't have a link, but it should be easy to research.

MY CYNICAL SPECULATION: :)

Churches would be attractive to molesters given Christians are so trusting and forgiving. Mega churches of 5-20,000 members would of necessity require a great number of volunteers in a variety of ministries. I am aware of how cynical I sound, but if you do some research and reading on various blogs, you see how this is very disturbing and often goes unnoticed for very long periods of time and then is sometimes covered up for fear of ruining the image of a church or Christianity in general.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby keithareilly on Fri May 29, 2015 10:02 am

Abiding wrote
Churches would be attractive to molesters given Christians are so trusting and forgiving. Mega churches of 5-20,000 members would of necessity require a great number of volunteers in a variety of ministries. I am aware of how cynical I sound, but if you do some research and reading on various blogs, you see how this is very disturbing and often goes unnoticed for very long periods of time and then is sometimes covered up for fear of ruining the image of a church or Christianity in general.


There is nothing cynical stated; this is the reality of the situation. It is why most organization now insist more than one adult is present. It helps protect the children from molestation; it helps protect the adults from false accusation.

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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Fri May 29, 2015 10:15 am

keithareilly wrote:There is nothing cynical stated; this is the reality of the situation. It is why most organization now insist more than one adult is present. It helps protect the children from molestation; it helps protect the adults from false accusation.


Good to know! Thanks, Keith!
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby keithareilly on Fri May 29, 2015 10:40 am

Abiding,

We may not agree with regards to forgiveness. I am Christian because it offers new life. Not just forgiveness or going to heaven (whatever that means). It is freedom from this body of death, the ability to do the good I want to do instead of the evil I used to do that caused me to become a Christian. What does being saved mean to me? It means being able to do good in life instead of the evil I used to be unable to stop doing. So when I look at Josh and other sinners who have repented of their sins, assuming he and they have truly repented of sin, I see myself and my own sins of which I have repented and been forgiven. If josh cannot be forgiven, then neither can anyone else, including me and you.

Of all the things to which I look forward; it is an incorruptible body. One that sin cannot gain hold of so that I do not constantly fight sin within me.

Sin in our flesh is like the alcoholic who is on the wagon, there is always the danger of falling off the wagon regardless of which sin we are talking about. We are all on the wagon and we are admonished to guard ourselves against sin,
even to the point of shedding our blood. Recidivism is a problem for all of us not just child abusers.

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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Fri May 29, 2015 11:01 am

We may not agree with regards to forgiveness.


Keith, you have known me as a member of this discussion board for years. Surely you know I believe in forgiveness. In what respect do you think we disagree?
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby keithareilly on Fri May 29, 2015 11:22 am

Abiding in His Word wrote:
We may not agree with regards to forgiveness.


Keith, you have known me as a member of this discussion board for years. Surely you know I believe in forgiveness. In what respect do you think we disagree?


Matthew 7:1-5
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.


I have taken many a plank from my own eyes, yet still I am blinded to things.
While, I still struggle not to judge; I am aware I have a measure. Our measure seems to be different.

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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Fri May 29, 2015 12:49 pm

So then I must ask you the same question I asked extavagantchristian. Have you or would you serve on a jury? Do you believe our governing entities are for the protection of the citizen's of our country and an avenger for those who do evil? Are we to obey the laws or are we excused from them?

Joseph and Mary obeyed the mandate of Caesar to travel to their hometown for a census. Jesus advocated obedience to the laws of taxation. And Jesus mentioned a "righteous judgement." Paul makes it clear that God administers justice through the governing bodies. Earlier in history, Moses heard civil cases and administered just, appropriate penalties and resolutions. And God Himself taught His people how to judge fairly and to be accountable for their actions.

Deu 17:6 "On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness.

This principle of witnesses holds much weight in our court system today as do many of the laws in the Torah.

And Jesus used pretty strong words about those who would harm little children. And I don't think Jesus ever spoke one negative word about obeying governing authorities and the laws of the land. Even the Pharisees and Chief Priests were aware of the power of testimony against someone for punishment:

Now the chief priests and the whole Council kept trying to obtain testimony against Jesus to put Him to death, and they were not finding any. For many were giving false testimony against Him, but their testimony was not consistent. Mar 14:55-56

If the law today sees sexual assault, murder, tax evasion, fraud, etc. as deserving of punishment, and if we believe it to be an agent of God for the good and protection of others, then we must abide by those laws or suffer the consequences.

Now, I've not suggested Josh Duggar be incarcerated although had his crimes not been hidden until the statute of limitations had passed, a treatment program and/or a juvenile detention or other penalty may have been applied. But surely the seriousness of his sexual molestation cannot or should not be minimized or overlooked.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Sonbeam on Sat May 30, 2015 6:50 am

Abiding in His Word wrote:Now, I've not suggested Josh Duggar be incarcerated although had his crimes not been hidden until the statute of limitations had passed, a treatment program and/or a juvenile detention or other penalty may have been applied. But surely the seriousness of his sexual molestation cannot or should not be minimized or overlooked.


I agree abiding. What punishment do you suggest Mr. Duggar should undergo right now? In addition to the fact that he is suffering the consequences of his past actions by being exposed publically before the whole world. He is marked for life. I believe we can rest assured that his life will never be the same again, right?

His actions might be outside the statute of limitations in this world, but not God's Who is letting him suffer the consequences of his actions. Should that be enough for us Christians? His victims?

Romans 12:19
Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord.

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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby GodsStudent on Sat May 30, 2015 7:13 am

I agree abiding. What punishment do you suggest Mr. Duggar should undergo right now? In addition to the fact that he is suffering the consequences of his past actions by being exposed publically before the whole world. He is marked for life. I believe we can rest assured that his life will never be the same again, right?


I don't agree with this justification....because it's not the prescription the law provides for the crimes committed, and frankly, it threatens falling in line with the way the world things....we HEAP forgiveness onto these people and then turn them celebrity all the time.
Monica Lewinsky, Oliver North, that police officer who had a thing going on in the OJ trial...all of these folks (and many more!) have television programs that we consume en mass. If not a television show, how about a book deal????

Im aware that this may or may not happen with this guy, but my point seriously is that in America, we forget your crime fast and have compassion for all you went through, and we contribute to making sure your life gets so much better....

but what do we do to and for the victims of these people when we do this?
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Sonbeam on Sat May 30, 2015 8:11 am

I am definitely not justifying his actions GS. But since the statute of limitations on this has run out, the question remains.

What would you, or anyone else reading this, suggest the further punishment, either civil/secular/social or religious punishment should be for Mr. Duggar?

By the way, the Romans 12:19 scripture I posted does not apply in this case. Christians do not suffer God's "wrath" under the New Covenant but we do "reap what we sow, " in other words, God lets us go through the consequences of our unprofitable actions.

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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sat May 30, 2015 9:19 am

Sonbeam wrote:I am definitely not justifying his actions GS. But since the statute of limitations on this has run out, the question remains.


You may not be justifying his actions, Sonbeam, but your sympathy is misdirected imo. Righteous judging enables us to differentiate between a guilty party and an innocent and depending on the seriousness of the offense/crime, apply appropriate punishment within the parameters of the federal or state jurisdiction. Even Judges in the court system have guidelines they must follow in exacting punishment. They can't arbitrarily mete out whatever punishment they feel like it. I doubt you will hear sympathy from a judge directed to any perpetrator of a sexual crime.

What would you, or anyone else reading this, suggest the further punishment, either civil/secular/social or religious punishment should be for Mr. Duggar?


Evidently, the Arkansas Police correctly reported Josh's molestation of minors to the appropriate agency, the Arkansas Dept. of Human Services who began an investigation. But again, cover-up and resistance ensued when Josh tried to sue that agency and it went to court. The results of that trial are sealed but this agency would most likely order that Josh be restricted from the home for the protection of his sisters.

As is common when efforts are made to minimize, or cover-up such crimes, more information follows eventually bringing out the truth. So in answer to your question, I have suggested in previous posts that at the very least, Josh should have been mandated to a professional treatment program with experts trained in dealing with this type of crime. He should also be restricted from any groups where children are present without supervision from an accompanying adult.

Covering up or minimizing the danger to children is reprehensible. Sovereign Grace Ministries/Covenant Life Church was involved in a massive cover-up conspiracy to protect the "image" and eventually the Youth Pastor, Nate Morales was tried and found guilty on seven of eight counts of sexual abuse and offense against four boys and sentenced to 40 yrs. in prison.

Again, all suspicions of sexual abuse must be reported to the proper authorities immediately for investigation. The outcome of the investigation will determine the appropriate penalty in accordance with the law.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Sonbeam on Sat May 30, 2015 10:54 am

I understand what you are saying Abiding. I think all of us here are in agreement that what Mr. Duggar did was wrong, criminal, etc., and appropriate punishment within the judicial system should have been taken then. However, I understand by comments here that it was not and that the statute of limitations has expired.

Therefore, is there some form of punishment that you or others reading this suggest should be imposed on Mr. Duggar now, at this time? Is the unraveling of his life right now (brought on by his own actions) not enough?

Do we know whether his victims want him to do jail time? Or sue him for his molestation?

As far as my sympathy being misdirected, there are no winners in this family tragedy.

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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sat May 30, 2015 11:26 am

Sonbeam wrote:Therefore, is there some form of punishment that you or others reading this suggest should be imposed on Mr. Duggar now, at this time? Is the unraveling of his life right now (brought on by his own actions) not enough?


As I said several times above...

So in answer to your question, I have suggested in previous posts that at the very least, Josh should have been mandated to a professional treatment program with experts trained in dealing with this type of crime. He should also be restricted from any groups where children are present without supervision from an accompanying adult.


That should still occur and evidently would be enforced following the investigation by the Human Services agency but is being (once again) delayed due to the desire of the Duggars to cover the crime by having Josh sue the agency which no doubt will be followed by an appeal.

As far as my sympathy being misdirected, there are no winners in this family tragedy.


Sonbeam, it's not a matter of winning or losing. This is not a contest after all. It's an effort to apply the necessary precautions which will hopefully help and monitor Josh and safeguard the previous victims as well as potential future victims as a result.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Sonbeam on Sat May 30, 2015 12:31 pm

Abiding in His Word wrote:
Sonbeam wrote:Therefore, is there some form of punishment that you or others reading this suggest should be imposed on Mr. Duggar now, at this time? Is the unraveling of his life right now (brought on by his own actions) not enough?


As I said several times above...

So in answer to your question, I have suggested in previous posts that at the very least, Josh should have been mandated to a professional treatment program with experts trained in dealing with this type of crime. He should also be restricted from any groups where children are present without supervision from an accompanying adult.


That should still occur and evidently would be enforced following the investigation by the Human Services agency but is being (once again) delayed due to the desire of the Duggars to cover the crime by having Josh sue the agency which no doubt will be followed by an appeal.


Thank you Abiding. I see what treatment you are advocating/suggesting for Mr. Duggar now.

Sonbeam wrote:As far as my sympathy being misdirected, there are no winners in this family tragedy.


Abiding in His Word wrote:Sonbeam, it's not a matter of winning or losing. This is not a contest after all. It's an effort to apply the necessary precautions which will hopefully help and monitor Josh and safeguard the previous victims as well as potential future victims as a result.


I wasn't thinking in terms of a contest when I made the above remarks. But rather of the loss of innocence, trust, mental and spiritual well being of all involved.

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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby GodsStudent on Sun May 31, 2015 2:20 pm

Hi sonbeam: I have been out of town this weekend with family, so I missed the discussion, but really like the conversation you and Abiding have been having. I react to any thinking that seems to shrug a shoulder ON ANY LEVEL where criminals who impart their crimes on the persons of their victims seems to take place. I know the impact of these types of crimes against people...and it's just too serious....and I really liked Abidings suggestions for this man...but I doubt seriously he'll get counseling before his book comes out, or his paid interviews about "all he's undergone because of what he did and so forth".....you know....I just don't like hearing from these people or seeing them on my television, but in America....if you admit your faults (or sometimes if you're accused and it's not proven)....you get lots of empathy....

its misdirected, imo.

I didn't do this post justice and should probably have not even started it, because my husband is waiting on me to go somewhere, but I wanted to say that I enjoyed seeing the conversation between Sonbeam and Abiding and thought it was GREAT! :grin:
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby Keeping Alert on Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:37 pm

Any comments now that his sisters has come out to support their brother?
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

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Father, glorify thy name.

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
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Re: Josh Duggar apologizes amid molestation allegations

Postby extravagantchristian on Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:22 pm

Yes lol... It's just strange to me that everyone is so angry about what Josh did 12 years ago, yet the family and the victims are totally over it, they dealt with it and healed long ago. If people really cared about the victims, they wouldn't take part in the public shaming of their family.
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