‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

News about humankind's turning from God.

‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby st louis steve on Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:02 am

Link to message from Joel Osteen and his wife.





http://christiannews.net/2014/08/28/do- ... god-video/



‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship ‘Not for God’ [Video]

August 28, 2014 | Filed under: Apostasy,Highlights,Life & Society,Top Stories | By: Heather Clark

.fb_edge_widget_with_comment{position:static!important;}.icon_outer{float:left;width:647px;margin:8px 0px;}.icon_outerspan{float:left!important;}


joelandvictoriaosteenA recently recorded video is circulating online of Victoria Osteen, wife of megachurch speaker and author Joel Osteen, calling on congregants at Lakewood Church to ‘do good for your own self’ because obedience, the church and worship are not for God as much as for self-happiness.

“I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we’re not doing it for God—I mean, that’s one way to look at it—we’re doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we’re happy,” she declares in the undated 36-second clip with her husband standing by her side and nodding. “That’s the thing that gives Him the greatest joy…”

“So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy,” Osteen continues. “When you come to church, when you worship Him, you’re not doing it for God really. You’re doing it for yourself, because that’s what makes God happy. Amen?”

Osteen is the author of the book Love Your Life, and is “co-pastor” of Lakewood in Houston, Texas. Her husband Joel is known for his motivational speeches and his books Your Best Life Now and It’s Your Time.


Steve Camp, pastor of The Cross Church in Palm City, Florida and former singer/songwriter, told Christian News Network that he viewed the video on Wednesday, and while saddened, he was not surprised at her remarks. He stated that Osteen’s statements were humanistic in nature and antithetical to Scripture.

“It’s the age old sin of idolatry—that it’s not about God, it’s about us,” he explained. “True worship for the humanist is about how we feel at the end of the day and what gives us meaning, as opposed to what gives God glory.”

“When we come to see men happy rather than God glorified, it’s not worship, it’s idolatry,” Camp stated, reading from Psalm 115:1, which states, “Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth’s sake.”
st louis steve
 
Posts: 9394
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:50 am
Location: St louis, Missouri

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby GodsStudent on Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:39 pm

or he could have called this one...how to get more and more puffed up, from one Sunday to the next....for people who see themselves as good surely are proud, and proud people surely are haughty.....I spent the weekend with a lot of people who "do good for their own self" and it showed....let me tell you....they were so good they were "too good" if you get my drift....

no....Joel....no..... :roll:
GodsStudent
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 10994
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:36 pm

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby daffodyllady on Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:30 pm

I like Bill Cosby's immediate reaction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00-6OyXVA0M
Daffodyllady
Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, and touch not the unclean thing, and I will recieve you... Abstain from all appearance of evil...Without holiness shall no man see the Lord.
daffodyllady
 
Posts: 4237
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:19 am

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby Exit40 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:05 am

daffodyllady wrote:I like Bill Cosby's immediate reaction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00-6OyXVA0M


Bwahaha...

God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
User avatar
Exit40
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 8850
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:46 am

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby Sanderson on Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:10 pm

Sad as it is to see, this comes as no surprise.

Paul warned us long ago.
2Ti 3:1-5 LEB But know this, that in the last days difficult times will come, (2) for people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, slanderers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, (3) hardhearted, irreconcilable, slanderous, without self-control, savage, with no interest for what is good, (4) traitors, reckless, conceited, loving pleasure rather than loving God, (5) maintaining a form of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid these people.
Sanderson
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby keithareilly on Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:29 pm

You know,

This is not entirely wrong. It is the kind of deception Satan used in the Garden of Eden.
The partial lie where the lie is intermingled with truth.

The law and the prophets hinge on (Matt 22:36-40):
1) Loving God with all your heart soul mind and strength
2) Loving your neighbor as yourself.

God does want what is good for us.
And God does command us to love ourselves;
However, we are commanded to love ourselves in this measure: neither more nor less than we love our neighbor.

The deception is Satan wants us to think that what is good for us is different than what God says is good for us.
It is a double sided lying sword that cuts two ways.
Lie 1) Love yourself without bound, be selfish, God wants you to have the best of everything.
Lie 2) See lie 1 for the Lie it is; reject it entirely, even the truth within the lie that God wants us to love ourselves, reject loving yourself entirely; love other people at the expense of yourself. Pursue Sacrifice instead of Mercy.

The truth is found in Matt 22:36-40.

Keith
keithareilly
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 1674
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:48 pm
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby daffodyllady on Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:20 pm

Where in the Bible does God command us to love ourselves?
I find no such command.
Instead, I find a statement that man already does love himself.

Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:



But, you may protest, what about those who self-mutilate? What about those who commit suicide? What about those who constantly put themselves down?

Take it from one who was suicidal, and who has talked bad about myself most of my life... all that stems from a deep inner value of self, though severely twisted.

The only reason I would have killed myself, is to find relief from emotional suffering... because I loved myself, and didn't want myself to suffer anymore.

The only reason my daughter wanted to cut herself, was to overpower the other pain she was feeling in her soul. The pain of the trauma of abuse.

The only reason I talked bad about myself all the time, was because I was the center of my own universe... I really had a very high opinion of myself, and was so disappointed that I let myself down so badly. I felt I really should have done better, in order to have had a better reputation, a better life for myself, etc.

Because I really loved myself more than anyone else.

But God has been teaching me that as long as I am the center of my attention, whether it is evidenced by shyness, talkativeness, or any other self-conscious behavior, He cannot use me effectively.

I need to learn to focus constantly on Him, that He may be my all-in-all. It is only when I learn to stop being my own focus, that I will truly find freedom in Christ.

Think about it.


The reason Jesus said we must love our neighbors as ourselves, is because we already do love ourselves.
Daffodyllady
Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, and touch not the unclean thing, and I will recieve you... Abstain from all appearance of evil...Without holiness shall no man see the Lord.
daffodyllady
 
Posts: 4237
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:19 am

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby keithareilly on Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:26 pm

Matt 22:39
39"The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'

The command is to love yourself and your neighbor.

The word "AS" is important.
If you will do something for yourself, then do it for your neighbor.
If you will not do it for your neighbor, do not do it for yourself.
If you want to do it for your neighbor then do it for yourself as well.

I am not more important to God than my neighbor.
Neither is my neighbor more important to God than me.

God wants mercy not sacrifice. (Matt 9:13)


Keith
keithareilly
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 1674
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:48 pm
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby daffodyllady on Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:06 am

The word "as" (when used in this manner) means "like".
In other words, Jesus was saying "Love your neighbor just like you already love yourself."



Notice it does not say "as well as", which would convey the idea of "besides" (the meaning you are putting on it.)

He was not saying "Love your neighbor, but first, make sure you love yourself."

How do I know? Because throughout the Bible, the commands of Jesus focus on NOT loving yourself first of all! For instance:
Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.


Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.


Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


Think about this verse:
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

You see, the philosophy of humanism puts the need to love yourself first, at the basis of what they call mental health. They say that if you don't love yourself, you can't love others. But they approach the problem backwards, as Satan usually does. They don't have God as the answer for the need of love in this world. Instead, they put SELF where God belongs.

But when we realize we already do love ourselves, and that is why we want to be pain-free, we want recognition, and we want possessions... And we prefer ourselves over our neighbors, and especially over GOD...

Then we can REPENT from the confusion of self-idolatry, and put God at the center, where He belongs. And that changes everything. From this new perspective, we draw strength to "in honor prefer others." (Romans 12:10) We can even be clothed with humility (I Peter 5:5) and submit ourselves one to another.(Eph. 5:21)

It isn't wrong to love ourselves. We all do, naturally.

It is Satan's lie called humanism...
(which has been defined by the US Supreme Court as a religion!)
...that tells modern psychology we need to learn to love ourselves. The reason they say that is because to them, self is the source of all good. And to repeat their lies, is to agree that self is god.


And this is where the Osteens are coming from. Their brand of Christianity is all about making you feel good about yourself! It is pure HUMANISM, wrapped in a cloak of Christian words.
Daffodyllady
Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, and touch not the unclean thing, and I will recieve you... Abstain from all appearance of evil...Without holiness shall no man see the Lord.
daffodyllady
 
Posts: 4237
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:19 am

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby mightymac on Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:16 am

snake oil sales man. The rare few times I stopped channel-hopping to take alisten, there was never a quote from the bible that he was expounding upon or teaching the Word. it was always feel-good stuff. He even looked the part, IMHO. I pretty much trust no one on TV.
Carolyn

'Was listening to some beautiful Christmas music - so lovely that it brought tears to my eyes. So I asked my youngest daughter, 16, who was doing homework, "I wonder what all the angels in heaven sound like when they are singing Glory to God?"
Without hesitation, she simply replied, "Warm."
mightymac
 
Posts: 853
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 6:59 pm
Location: Northwest NJ

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby keithareilly on Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:47 am

DaffodylLady,

You are arguing against what you are hearing, not what I am saying; for you are not hearing what I am saying.

I understand from where you are coming.
The word is a double edged sword. It cuts both ways.
The word says to selfish people exactly what you are saying. It slices just exactly as you have said.

The word is a double edged sword; it cuts the other way too.
Yet, you cannot hear it; because, it does not apply to you.
I wrote what I wrote for those to whom it applies.

I stand by what I said.
Those who hear it, will understand and benefit.
Just as those who need to hear what you have said understand and benefit.

Keith
keithareilly
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 1674
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:48 pm
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby keithareilly on Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:42 am

... The rare few times I stopped channel-hopping to take alisten, there was never a quote from the bible that he was expounding upon or teaching the Word. it was always feel-good stuff. He even looked the part, IMHO. ...


I have noticed this also.

It is an interesting trap.
It lures not only the selfish, but also those who want material proof (a sign) from God.

Keith
keithareilly
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 1674
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:48 pm
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby daffodyllady on Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:08 pm

Keith,
I AM hearing what you are saying.
You see, I used to think I had a low self-image. I used to look in the mirror and tell myself I hated myself, every day. I thought I was ugly, I thought I was unworthy of love, I thought I was a failure. and I told myself those things, because I really believed them.

I tried and tried to think better of myself. I tried to stop saying those things to myself, but I still thought those thoughts. I began to think of suicide.

I have walked that way. I know the path. I have been there.

And my answer never came by telling myself that I was as good as everyone else. I tried it. It didn't work!
I still felt unlovable. Unacceptable.

It was only when I realized the TRUTH that God said about me, that I found freedom from putting myself down.

I found out the reason I was down on myself, was not because I didn't love myself, but because I DID love myself!

And once I began to quote the WORD, that "No one hates himself" that I began to find freedom from the lies Satan had gotten me to tell myself in the mirror.

"You shall know the TRUTH, and the truth shall make you FREE."
Daffodyllady
Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, and touch not the unclean thing, and I will recieve you... Abstain from all appearance of evil...Without holiness shall no man see the Lord.
daffodyllady
 
Posts: 4237
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:19 am

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby keithareilly on Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:31 pm

DaffodylLady,

I am happy for you that God has given you what you needed.

Each person should look in the mirror and tell oneself no one hates oneself.
Perhaps then people would not look to material wealth as a sign of God's blessing, as God's approval of their life.

Keith
keithareilly
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 1674
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:48 pm
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby mightymac on Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:11 am

hey you two,
I just wanted to let you know that I shared what you said to two of my kids. Some of you may recall that my kids have and still do put me and their dad thru living nightmares. My one daughter put us thru SIX years of every sin imaginable and we are sick that we had to at times, placate her just to have some peace. But she found Jesus and is now doing very well in college (after having dropped out of HS) and is studying Psychology. I was reading some of the posts here and at the time she seemed disinterested bc she was telling me about something else about narcisism (ironic). But as she was driving to school, it crept up on her about how ppl who hurt themselves (she has scars all over her arms including staple scars) don't hate themselves as you guys said, but rather it is becasue they love themselves that they are desperate for relief of their inward pain and self-disappointment. It was a light-bulb moment for her. Thank you.

Please pray for my son who is our latest headache and a half. At 24 (he looks much younger) he discovered facebook and selfies and it soon became an obsession and turned into a monstrous beast. best described as body dismorphic disorder (though he has a wide variety of disabilities since he was 3, likely aspergers, bipolar, and was even diagnosed retarded at one point) he cries for hours and is convinced his face keeps changing shape, aging, his beard is consuming his face, you name it. it is crazy. he gained some weight, that is all that has changed. but he is defeated and cycles between blaming God and crying out to God for relief. No help has come in months. We see a dr. and the meds change but the problem is getting worse. He has serious fits of anxiety that make him feel like he is having a heart attack. it even has entered his dreams at night. We just don't know what to do anymore. it is completely exhausting and he is suffering greatly.
Carolyn

'Was listening to some beautiful Christmas music - so lovely that it brought tears to my eyes. So I asked my youngest daughter, 16, who was doing homework, "I wonder what all the angels in heaven sound like when they are singing Glory to God?"
Without hesitation, she simply replied, "Warm."
mightymac
 
Posts: 853
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 6:59 pm
Location: Northwest NJ

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby Exit40 on Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:10 am

Carolyn, do your own research on his meds, google them, for side effects and in combos with other meds. I was surprised to find my PTSD meds in combo were actually causing more of the problems they were supposed to relieve individually. Especially, watch for caffeine intake with some of them. These psychotropics are still a guessing game for the Dr's. See for yourself. Praying for your son.

God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
User avatar
Exit40
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 8850
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:46 am

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby daffodyllady on Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:11 am

Oh Carolyn, you have such a world of hurt there!
I am so glad your daughter is finding truth. The truth will make her free.
Your son... what a burden to carry! My own humble opinion would be there could be a mixture of mental illness/disorder with some spiritual oppression making things far worse. I wish I could drop by your house and pray with you over your son.
Anyhow, I'm praying for him long-distance! And for you...
Daffodyllady
Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, and touch not the unclean thing, and I will recieve you... Abstain from all appearance of evil...Without holiness shall no man see the Lord.
daffodyllady
 
Posts: 4237
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:19 am

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby keithareilly on Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:36 am

Also praying.

Keith
keithareilly
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 1674
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:48 pm
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: ‘Do Good for Your Own Self’: Osteen Says Obedience, Worship

Postby mightymac on Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:37 am

Thanks for the prayers for my son. Ironically, he got baptised last month. He was so desperate for help and at least he is trying to be involved in the Remix group. Walking faith is hard for him, maybe because he was seeking God out of a need for relief. He is plaqued with a lot of sinful influences that we have tried to discourage while giving him as much autonomy as we can (he is 24) though I turned off his phone for a while. Interestingly, he has been very sensitive to his meds - medication that he used to take no problem started giving him restless legs and anxiety that was downright painful. First we cut it in half, that seemed much better, now we are cutting it way back and I'm mixing it in herbal tea. he needs to get off of it. He was also on another med for a long time. the dr. increased it with the addition of a different med. he cried constantly. he refused to take the old med and immediately, the crying stopped. so we dropped it back significantly (you can't just stop these things of course) and finally, we had 2 good days that were a combo affect -- i switched out his adderall for his sister's vyvanse, AND he got a hair cut. (which he was very happy with) He was so happy the last 2 days he has been whistling. literally (its actually quite annoying after a while, but I would whistle with him over the constant crying and screaming, night and day, day and night!!!) He was wrestling with gender issues (dark influences i'm sure) but again the last two days have been improved. OK, he plucks his beard but I don't care about that so long as I don't have to hear about it! I really hope that he will move on from all this insanity and take his place in the family and in life.
thank you again,
Carolyn
Carolyn

'Was listening to some beautiful Christmas music - so lovely that it brought tears to my eyes. So I asked my youngest daughter, 16, who was doing homework, "I wonder what all the angels in heaven sound like when they are singing Glory to God?"
Without hesitation, she simply replied, "Warm."
mightymac
 
Posts: 853
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 6:59 pm
Location: Northwest NJ


Return to Apostasy Watch

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest