Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

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Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Abiding in His Word on Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:04 am

Bob Coy, Pastor of Florida's Calvary Chapel Megachurch, Resigns Over ‘Moral Failure'

(RNS) Florida megachurch pastor Bob Coy has resigned from his 20,000-member Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale congregation over a “moral failing.”

A statement on the church’s website reported the news: ”On April 3, 2014, Bob Coy resigned as Senior Pastor of Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale, effective immediately, after confessing to a moral failing in his life which disqualifies him from continuing his leadership role at the church he has led since its founding in 1985.”


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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby GodsStudent on Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:43 pm

:cry: May this renew him in the Lord and may he accept Christs' forgiveness for him as he preached it to so many others over the years. A human = A human = A human.

I realize he pastors a church and don't disagree with his stepping down, but on a very personal level, I understand his situation and will pray for him. :praying:
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby sacredcowbasher on Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:15 pm

We need to stop trying to be Christians in our own strength. I'm not saying this specifically about Bob Coy, I don't know him. But I think often times the leadership of churches place these really rigid rules into their bylaws because they think that it will be an incentive that will make them think hard before considering giving in to a temptation.

This proves that they are walking in their own strength.

I think facing Jesus with your sin should be incentive enough. The problem might be - where is Jesus in all of this?


I could see where this brother would want to take three or six months off to seek God and reassure his wife and family of his commitment to them. If he is truly sorry, and I'm sure he is, Jesus don't take long to forgive. Then he should return to pastoring his church.

If he shepherded a group of religious folk who are self-righteous and judgmental, he may not be welcomed back.

The apostle Paul said he was called to preach the gospel and woe be unto me if I preach not the gospel. Once Bob Coy has repented, and he and Jesus feel its time to get back to it, there should be no reason why he shouldn't.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Ready1 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:42 am

1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Just observing.

E.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby imirish01 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:04 pm

First and foremost, I know I am a sinner in need of much grace! But, I have a couple of questions. Not to throw stones, but I wonder what others think.

1. Would it make a difference to anyone if the moral failure was child abuse and not an affair? Or, if it was homosexuality? Would it make a difference while listening to his sermons?

2. Do you even want to know what the moral failure is? Should we know, who are not his congregration? Are we entitled because he had a world wide ministry to then know what the failure was?

So, I ask those questions becuase it does matter to me. LIke it or not, it does matter to me.If he abused a child it matters greatly to me. I think the words "moral failure" make it sound like he is more a victim than he should be. And it tends to lend itself to "let's just gloss this over and forgive, forgive, forgive." I am all for forgiving, but what am I forgiving.

I tend to give pastors respect. I believe they are well deserving of respect and longsuffering and I have made it very clear on this board to stick up for them. However, I don't think it should be glossed over with a "moral failure" comment and "now" he is spending time with God and family. Again,I don't want to throw stones, but this does not sit well with me. Where were his other leaders during this? The elders, the associate pastors?

I know I have had to go confess my sins to other people and it sucks! I could only imagine what is is like to be a leader and then have to go and confess your sins. However, when I confessed my sin, I had to confess to the sin and not a "moral failure." How ambiguess can you get!

Anyway, again, I don't want to throw stones, I just think this "moral failure" is too neat and tidy and let's move on. It concerns me.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby GodsStudent on Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:22 pm

imirish01 wrote:First and foremost, I know I am a sinner in need of much grace! But, I have a couple of questions. Not to throw stones, but I wonder what others think.

1. Would it make a difference to anyone if the moral failure was child abuse and not an affair? Or, if it was homosexuality? Would it make a difference while listening to his sermons?

2. Do you even want to know what the moral failure is? Should we know, who are not his congregration? Are we entitled because he had a world wide ministry to then know what the failure was?

So, I ask those questions becuase it does matter to me. LIke it or not, it does matter to me.If he abused a child it matters greatly to me. I think the words "moral failure" make it sound like he is more a victim than he should be. And it tends to lend itself to "let's just gloss this over and forgive, forgive, forgive." I am all for forgiving, but what am I forgiving.


I know I have had to go confess my sins to other people and it sucks! I could only imagine what is is like to be a leader and then have to go and confess your sins. However, when I confessed my sin, I had to confess to the sin and not a "moral failure." How ambiguess can you get!

Anyway, again, I don't want to throw stones, I just think this "moral failure" is too neat and tidy and let's move on. It concerns me.



The operator of that blog Michael Newnham tells CBS 4 he confirmed through inside church sources that “Coy has admitted to two affairs and a problem with pornography. The church won’t comment on the allegations”



http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/04/09/ca ... signation/
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby sacredcowbasher on Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:11 pm

Franklin Graham will be a great comfort to the people at Calvary Chapel in Florida during this time. He will be leading the Easter Service. The word of God tells us in Gal 6:1

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trepass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.

Franklin and his father understood how to live this Christian life; not in our own strength, but by placing our faith in Christ and what He did at the cross; trusting in Him to be our strength, our righteousness, our wisdom, our everything. Without Him we can do nothing. We are the branches, He is the vine.

The church and especially the leadership need to drop the facade and be real. If we are trying to reach for a place or position that Jesus doesn't want us to occupy, come down from there and humble yourself, then He will lift you up.

If we are in a leadership role because we genuinely are called to be there, let's stop walking in the flesh; in our own strength, and lets learn to walk in the Spirit.

When the object of our faith is PERFORMANCE, and the focus of our faith is WORKS, the SOURCE of getting this accomplished is SELF, and the outcome is FAILURE.

When the object of our faith is JESUS CHRIST, and the focus of our faith is THE CROSS, the SOURCE of getting things done is THE HOLY SPIRIT, and the outcome is VICTORY.

Most of the church today is in some kind of bondage because we make laws out of the things we use to prop our lives up to what we think our standards should be. We think if we read the bible more or pray more, that will give me a victorious life. No it won't in and of itself. It will bring victory if the reading and praying gives the Lord a chance to show us the truth.

The truth is what will set us free from the bondage of sin. The truth is, we can't live this Christian life in our own strength, using our own formulas, or someone else's formula, fasting, writing down our sins of a piece of paper and then tearing up the paper and stomping on it, then declaring that we are free from it.

Jesus said, 'If you abide in My word, then are you My disciples indeed; and you shall know the truth, and the truth SHALL set you free'.

When we make things a law to live by, we, by default, cease from living under grace. Thus, the Holy Spirit is limited in what He can do through us. The law, or a law that we make up to live by, can not produce righteousness. The only righteousness that is real and legitimate is found in Jesus Christ.

What He did at the cross has washed our sins away and through Him, brought us into fellowship with the Father and the Son. We continue to live out our salvation through the same power, which is not from us.

Paul said to the Galations, 'Why having started out in the Spirit, do you now think that you can be made perfect in the flesh'?

In another place it says, 'As you have received Him, so walk you in Him'.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby imirish01 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:17 pm

I am not surprised. The church is fighting sexual perversion all over the place. We have opened the door and now it is attacking anyone who then opens the door.

So, what do we do as a church body? Beyond denomination, beyond doctrine...what do we do when many of our leaders and men (some women) are falling prey to this? Confess that this is a problem in the church? Openly, honestly confess.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby mark s on Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:08 pm

imirish01 wrote:First and foremost, I know I am a sinner in need of much grace! But, I have a couple of questions. Not to throw stones, but I wonder what others think.

1. Would it make a difference to anyone if the moral failure was child abuse and not an affair? Or, if it was homosexuality? Would it make a difference while listening to his sermons?

2. Do you even want to know what the moral failure is? Should we know, who are not his congregration? Are we entitled because he had a world wide ministry to then know what the failure was?


I'll be honest. My first thought was to want to know what he did. But this is my own confession, because I believe that came from some prurient interest from the flesh nature. There is no possible meaning for me to know the details, I've never met the man, nor his family, nor friends nor congregation.

Were I to be one of those in his life that were to be responsible to help restore him, certainly I'd need more information, but then, I'm sure if that were the case, I would have more information.

But I know he is in difficulty, so I can pray for him, whenever I happen to think about him.

Just my thoughts . . .

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Abiding in His Word on Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:17 pm

mark s wrote:Were I to be one of those in his life that were to be responsible to help restore him, certainly I'd need more information, but then, I'm sure if that were the case, I would have more information.


Restore him to what or how, Mark? Just curious. A pastor certainly would know that repentance brings forgiveness so that's available to him simply by the confession. And surely he should step down so that's a given. His wife may or may not be able to trust him going forth, so that's her decision to make.

So I'm confused about the popular belief about "restoration."
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby mark s on Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:34 pm

I can't really comment on what the 'popular belief' may be, but what I mean is to restore him to a life where he's not committing these same sins over and over. Restore him to a consistently spiritual walk with Jesus. Help to build him up in strength to overcome these temptations.

His role as a pastor, as a husband, father, etc., these come secondary in my opinion. I know that as a pastor, he's already decided to step down. If he has not been a Godly husband, then to become that is the best thing he can do for his marriage. His wife will be responsible for her choices. Not being close to this situation, there's not much I can really say.

But I hope this answers your question.

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Abiding in His Word on Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:33 pm

mark s wrote:I can't really comment on what the 'popular belief' may be, but what I mean is to restore him to a life where he's not committing these same sins over and over. Restore him to a consistently spiritual walk with Jesus. Help to build him up in strength to overcome these temptations.


So you don't think 1 Cor. 5:11 might apply here? But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one. I see adultery and porn as fornication and immorality. Surely a pastor who has such secret sins knows the seriousness of those sins and has, no doubt, preached against them in sermons to the congregation. Forgive? Of course. It's not a question of forgiveness, but of the necessity of living above reproach.

His role as a pastor, as a husband, father, etc., these come secondary in my opinion. I know that as a pastor, he's already decided to step down.


Yes, I respect that he has done that.

If he has not been a Godly husband, then to become that is the best thing he can do for his marriage. His wife will be responsible for her choices.


Well, there's no doubt he hasn't been a Godly husband, is there?

Not being close to this situation, there's not much I can really say.


Well, apparently, some member have seen suspicious occurrences over the years and reported them after hearing of the resignation.

“There should have been more accountability at Calvary Chapel,” he says. “Pastor Bob shouldn’t have been put on such a high pedestal and he should have never had so much power. Whenever there is that, it’s a formula for disaster.”

The popular church boasts over 20,000 members, has 10 campuses, and 1,000 employees. (from the link above)


This is one of the major problems I've mentioned in the "No Denominations" thread; that of personality-driven pastors and powerful hierarchies where opportunities and temptations abound.

But I hope this answers your question.


It did answer my question as you understand it. Thank you, Mark.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby mark s on Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:33 pm

Abiding in His Word wrote:
mark s wrote:I can't really comment on what the 'popular belief' may be, but what I mean is to restore him to a life where he's not committing these same sins over and over. Restore him to a consistently spiritual walk with Jesus. Help to build him up in strength to overcome these temptations.


So you don't think 1 Cor. 5:11 might apply here? But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one. I see adultery and porn as fornication and immorality. Surely a pastor who has such secret sins knows the seriousness of those sins and has, no doubt, preached against them in sermons to the congregation. Forgive? Of course. It's not a question of forgiveness, but of the necessity of living above reproach.


Hi Abiding,

I was answering regarding what I meant by the restoration of a brother caught up in sin. This is a different matter. But didn't Paul say in the second letter that when he repented, take him back into fellowship? It sound to me that he still has Christians around him to help him, just as we all need. Were he to be unrepentant, flaunting his sins as the Corinthian man, I believe that would apply.

If he has not been a Godly husband, then to become that is the best thing he can do for his marriage. His wife will be responsible for her choices.


Well, there's no doubt he hasn't been a Godly husband, is there?


I must have missed something, I thought that he had not revealed the specifics.
Not being close to this situation, there's not much I can really say.


Well, apparently, some member have seen suspicious occurrences over the years and reported them after hearing of the resignation.

“There should have been more accountability at Calvary Chapel,” he says. “Pastor Bob shouldn’t have been put on such a high pedestal and he should have never had so much power. Whenever there is that, it’s a formula for disaster.”

The popular church boasts over 20,000 members, has 10 campuses, and 1,000 employees. (from the link above)


Bloggers can be quick to pounce. I have no idea if this is true or not. Supposing it is . . . that does not change my point of view. When he is repentant, he is to be received into fellowship, and helped in his walk with God.

This is one of the major problems I've mentioned in the "No Denominations" thread; that of personality-driven pastors and powerful hierarchies where opportunities and temptations abound.


Many people hide their sins. One of my good friend from high school killed herself with alcoholism, and I never knew she had a problem! I wish I had known, and I've never ceased to regret my blindness to her problem. And me, a former alcoholic!!! But she bears her responsibility in hiding it so well.

We all need to break down the barriers that separate us - what is really a lack of love - so we can actually be real with each other. Not to be afraid. Not to have to hide.

Many people tend to like charismatic people. Should a pastor step down because too many people feel blessed by his ministry? Simply because they like him? Again, when we see a brother caught up in a sin, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering yourself . . . None of us are immune.

I don't know whether Bob Coy was a tyrant within his church, or just good at hiding. If he let no one close enough to see the problems and help him, well, that can happen to anyone, can't it? But here again, I not close enough to the situation to really know what happened, and how, so I don't know what more I could say.

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Abiding in His Word on Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:21 pm

mark s wrote:I was answering regarding what I meant by the restoration of a brother caught up in sin. This is a different matter. But didn't Paul say in the second letter that when he repented, take him back into fellowship? It sound to me that he still has Christians around him to help him, just as we all need. Were he to be unrepentant, flaunting his sins as the Corinthian man, I believe that would apply.


Hi Mark,

It's a matter of opinion I suppose whether or not a senior pastor should now resort to help from those whom he served. Of course he can still attend services, but not in any capacity that entails contact with women or computers since those apparently are problematic for him.

Bloggers can be quick to pounce.


I am thankful for bloggers. Many, if not most, have been silenced by churches by unorthodox means such as contract specifying unqualified loyalty to the pastor, calling credible reports as "gossip", and those who bring legitimate charges as busybodies or bitter members.

I have no idea if this is true or not. Supposing it is . . . that does not change my point of view. When he is repentant, he is to be received into fellowship, and helped in his walk with God.


There are some who benefit from counseling, support-type-groups, and/or "accountability" groups, but we're talking about a pastor here, Mark. A pastor since at least 1985 with (if you search the web) has a sordid past that's been documented.

Many people hide their sins.


Indeed, we've all, no doubt, sinned at times and we'd hate for them to become public knowledge. But again, there are pretty clear qualifications for those who are in the public eye and in a position to set an example for believers and they are held to a higher standard.

One of my good friend from high school killed herself with alcoholism, and I never knew she had a problem! I wish I had known, and I've never ceased to regret my blindness to her problem. And me, a former alcoholic!!! But she bears her responsibility in hiding it so well.


Sad, for sure, but not everyone is comfortable with transparency of a personal nature.

Many people tend to like charismatic people. Should a pastor step down because too many people feel blessed by his ministry? Simply because they like him? Again, when we see a brother caught up in a sin, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering yourself . . . None of us are immune.

I don't know whether Bob Coy was a tyrant within his church, or just good at hiding. If he let no one close enough to see the problems and help him, well, that can happen to anyone, can't it? But here again, I not close enough to the situation to really know what happened, and how, so I don't know what more I could say.


Again, a person who is to be an example to others is called to be above reproach and of good reputation. If there is evidence that this mandate is lacking, that person should be removed.

There is much abuse within churches and much of it has been covered up without regard to those who suffered terribly as a result. If some of the things happening in churches (child abuse, sexual abuse, fraud, etc.) were reported to civil authorities (and they should be), they would be prosecuted. That's the purpose of governing authorities...to execute justice for those against whom crime has been committed.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby mark s on Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:25 am

Hi Abiding,

I sense that we are talking about 2 different things here. I don't see where in Scripture that pastors are exempt from being helped to be restored to a spiritual walk by those whom God has placed around them.

A pastor is a person, a child of God. Yes, there is a higher call towards a pure life, yes, they are an example, both to the believers, and the unbelievers. To the believers, he needs to be pure so that he is a vessel of honor, able to be used. To the unbelievers, he needs to be pure lest he bring reproach to the name of Christ.

How the unbelievers love to say, "Oh! Look! How the mighty are fallen!!" And it brings a black sort of joy to their envious hearts.

But this does not change what God says when his children are caught up in sin. You who are spiritual restore them.

And while I don't question whether or not what has been stated have been his sins or not, I've only seen unsupported accusations, and for me, that's not enough. Maybe there's something I'm missing. I couldn't begin to catalog how many people write gossip and untruth out of their bitterness towards God. Am I silencing those who shout truth from the rooftops? No, but I'm not comfortable reaching conclusions based on someone's unsupported statements.

I completely agree with you that if there is credible evidence that if an elder, or overseer, (and we apply this to our pastors since they serve in these roles) is not living according to the declarations in Titus and Timothy, that he should not be a pastor.

But at the bottom of it all, at least, for me, is a man, Bob Coy, who needs the help from God that we all need at times. There is the impact on his family, for whatever may have occurred, and I presume there is a family suffering untold pain. And they need prayers, and they need love, just like we all do.

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Abiding in His Word on Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:51 am

I completely agree with you that if there is credible evidence that if an elder, or overseer, (and we apply this to our pastors since they serve in these roles) is not living according to the declarations in Titus and Timothy, that he should not be a pastor.


Glad we're in agreement about this at least. And evidently Bob agrees as well as he stepped down.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby redeemed1953 on Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:47 pm

:armor:
It's tough when your idols have feet of clay.
:a3:
I am a great sinner and Christ is a great Saviour...John Newton
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Mr Baldy on Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:18 pm

Again, a person who is to be an example to others is called to be above reproach and of good reputation. If there is evidence that this mandate is lacking, that person should be removed.


:a3:

As we move closer towards the Tribulation Period, the people of God should always keep this in mind. There will be Many False Christ's who shall arise.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby mark s on Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:08 am

redeemed1953 wrote::armor:
It's tough when your idols have feet of clay.
:a3:


That's a problem with idols!

We need to see our pastors as our brothers, and serve them even while they serve us. We all need each other so very much, we mustn't allow anything to separate us in our love and service to each other.

Love in Christ,
Mark
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby sacredcowbasher on Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:46 pm

Hey mark s, and company,

Let's also remember to pray for our pastors. The devil wins a nice battle when he can take down the leader of a church. Leaders face strong battles at times and need to be undergirded by the flock. I am not in a local body presently, but watching live services on TV, but I remember my former pastor asking many times for prayer. It makes a difference in their lives for strength, anointing, and boldness, to name a few.
:praying:
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby mark s on Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:03 pm

I cannot agree with you more!
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Abiding in His Word on Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:10 pm

sacredcowbasher wrote:Let's also remember to pray for our pastors.


I'd like to add a reminder to pray for the victims and families who will suffer immensely as a result of the moral failures of pastors. Some may have long-lasting trouble trusting.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby sacredcowbasher on Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:09 pm

It is true Abiding, many have been hurt and let down. The Lord promises to bring those sheep that are scattered back to their folds, as in Jer 23:

Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord. Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord. And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the Lord

God is preparing those pastors for the ministry. He is also preparing His bride and will need holy men and women of God to bring this about.

I wish His bride would be all who call themselves Christians, but the Word of God also tells us that in the last days there will be a great falling away.

I think we are seeing the signs of that great falling away happening today. Apostasy in the so-called church is one thing. I think we will also see the rejection of the Lord in greater numbers.

Do you all agree that we will see those who hunger and thirst after righteousness growing into the fullness of Christ?

That He is coming back for a church without spot, wrinkle, or any such blemish? :banana:

God is good

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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby imirish01 on Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:47 am

I can tell you after 13 years of working in a District Attorney's Office that I have never, ever seen Christian's come in to support a victim of child molest, but I have seen scores of Christian's come in to support the offender. They testify for them, pray for them, visit them in jail, call for justice and truth for them. All the while the offender lies and manipulates.

So yes, the victim's left in the wake of these Christian offenders is huge and mainly forgotten by the church. At least in my county. It is a sad state of affairs and breaks my heart to see these child victim's left alone.

I agree that we as Christian's tend to want to run to support the offender while the offended are left alone and damaged.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby mark s on Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:52 am

sacredcowbasher wrote:
That He is coming back for a church without spot, wrinkle, or any such blemish? :banana:

God is good

Eddie


Through the finished work of Christ on the cross . . . not because we're so wonderful.

:grin:

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Abiding in His Word on Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:08 am

imirish01 wrote:I can tell you after 13 years of working in a District Attorney's Office that I have never, ever seen Christian's come in to support a victim of child molest, but I have seen scores of Christian's come in to support the offender. They testify for them, pray for them, visit them in jail, call for justice and truth for them. All the while the offender lies and manipulates.

So yes, the victim's left in the wake of these Christian offenders is huge and mainly forgotten by the church. At least in my county. It is a sad state of affairs and breaks my heart to see these child victim's left alone.

I agree that we as Christian's tend to want to run to support the offender while the offended are left alone and damaged.


Exactly. And what it's so important to not overlook is that abuse of any kind normally happens because the victim has been groomed by the perpetrator. A culture of shame and silence enables these kinds of sins to not only continue, but to be covered up. Recent examples are the resignation of Doug Phillips of Vision Ministries; the lawsuit against Sovereign Grace Ministries; the sentencing of Jack Shaap,; lawsuit against Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia for child abuse; Nate Morales of Covenant Life Church accused of sexual abuse of young boys, whose trial is upcoming in May.

These types of crimes need to be reported to law enforcement for prosecution rather than handled and/or covered up within the church. But make no mistake, a mishandling of scripture can lead to shame about gossiping, false accusations, silencing, ruining a leader's reputation, seduction on the part of the victim, etc.

These are just some reasons why all believers need to challenge teachings that have a hidden agenda.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby imirish01 on Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:39 am

That's the hard thing Abiding. The Bible says that we need to submit to authority and honor those deserving of honor. There is no reason not to honor a pastor, until of course he gives good reason ( and witnessed by more than one person). It is a big struggle for me at times to honor God and his written word and feel in my gut there is a big problem with the church in my area. I don't like talking poorly of the church, but wow, I am scared for it in my area.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Abiding in His Word on Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:54 am

imirish01 wrote:That's the hard thing Abiding. The Bible says that we need to submit to authority and honor those deserving of honor. There is no reason not to honor a pastor


This is a whole other topic and one that's most often misunderstood. I'm not up to discussing it as it normally leads to much too much (and heated) debate but I highly recommend doing a lot of study about the extent and use of the word "submit" and "authority" as well what it entails in our daily-to-day living. Way too many usurping power, control, and authority over others that is not scriptural.

ETA: Here are two studies I highly recommend regarding authority in the church:

This one has 3-4 articles about authority

This one is a 4-part series on authority
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby sacredcowbasher on Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:30 pm

mark s wrote:
sacredcowbasher wrote:
That He is coming back for a church without spot, wrinkle, or any such blemish? :banana:

God is good

Eddie


Through the finished work of Christ on the cross . . . not because we're so wonderful.

:grin:

Love in Christ,
Mark


:a3:
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby imirish01 on Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:51 pm

Thank you Abiding. As always, good info. I was particularly interested in the first link. That pastor wrote a open letter to a young girl who accused Tom White, the executive Director of Voice of the Martyrs, of abuse. Mr. White committed suicide prior to the conclusion of the investigation. Pastor Burleson's first thought was for the young girl. Again, I had never seen this and it was very encouraging to read the letter to her. Thank you for pointing me in that direction.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:09 am

imirish01 wrote: Pastor Burleson's first thought was for the young girl. Again, I had never seen this and it was very encouraging to read the letter to her. Thank you for pointing me in that direction.


This is off-topic, but I thought I'd add it anyway :mrgreen:

Wade Burleson prefers to be called Wade as opposed to pastor Wade. The Enid, Oklahoma church has a practice of allowing anyone in need to take money from the offering plate when it's passed. He has no way of knowing who has made use of that practice, but you can be sure that that particular assembly of believers does not have money as it's primary focus.

If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Jas 2:15-16
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:22 pm

imirish01 wrote:Thank you Abiding. As always, good info.


Not only does Abiding provide good info, she/he is most excellent at paying attention to the very keen details in topics and/or discussions that are often overlooked or "read into" - and for that, I personally greatly appreciate Abiding, and the discernment that God has truly blessed her/him with.

Perhaps there have been times where the Moderators have been scrutinized - but I must say that since I've been a member of this forum, and I mean no disrespect to other Administrators/Moderators - but I've personally witnessed Abiding have the gift of discernment that has been not only consistent, but "spot on" in various topics as it relates to Scripture over the years as well.

Keep up the Good Work Abiding!
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Exit40 on Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:00 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
imirish01 wrote:Thank you Abiding. As always, good info.


Not only does Abiding provide good info, she/he is most excellent at paying attention to the very keen details in topics and/or discussions that are often overlooked or "read into" - and for that, I personally greatly appreciate Abiding, and the discernment that God has truly blessed her/him with.

Perhaps there have been times where the Moderators have been scrutinized - but I must say that since I've been a member of this forum, and I mean no disrespect to other Administrators/Moderators - but I've personally witnessed Abiding have the gift of discernment that has been not only consistent, but "spot on" in various topics as it relates to Scripture over the years as well.

Keep up the Good Work Abiding!


I whole heartedly agree !!! She is among the best of us.

God Bless

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Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby redeemed1953 on Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:19 pm

:armor:

I would leave it in Jesus care....

31 "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; 32 but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers." [Luke 22:31-32 NASB]


Note: Jesus didn't tell Peter to resign nor did He tell the brothers (today's congregation) to kick Peter out, but Peter was not immoral, he was under attack by the enemy.

:a3:
Last edited by redeemed1953 on Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby daffodyllady on Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:24 am

I think...
Since Christian leadership (Biblically) is not about domination and lording over others, but rather "going in front" and "showing the path by example" then we should be very careful to put someone who has failed in such a major way, into the position of leadership.

We should forgive easily. But we need to remember that forgiveness isn't the same thing as trust.

True forgiveness is brutally honest. We have to face exactly how bad something was, before we can truly either repent or forgive. And that honesty can say, "I don't know yet if I can trust you again."

Once you face exactly how untrustworthy someone was, it takes time for that person to earn trust back.
It takes time. That's where I come out on this.
Forgiveness can be given long before trust is earned back.

There is a strong positive in allowing ministers who have failed, back into leadership, once they re-earn trust. You demonstrate grace. The body as a whole learns grace, whether it be applied to their own lives, or to those who have failed them. And this is very important. The church grows through learning not to gossip, and learning how to forgive and restore. Those who are too offended to learn this, will go elsewhere... which may also be a net positive.

Beyond grace, there is another very real benefit. The leadership, once forgiven and restored, is more humble. More teachable. More sensitive spiritually. This is a net positive for the whole church, also.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:50 am

The body as a whole learns grace, whether it be applied to their own lives, or to those who have failed them. And this is very important. The church grows through learning not to gossip, and learning how to forgive and restore. Those who are too offended to learn this, will go elsewhere... which may also be a net positive.


Just a word of caution about this...there's a lot of guilt laid on believers for talking about things that ought to be talked about by using the word "gossip." People need to know the facts and the dangers of sexual sins among members. This type of sin is one generally committed in private and in secrecy among Christians. When someone who has an "up-front" very visible ministry, he or she is to be an example to others. But one cannot know what is going on in another's mind and/or heart. The prophets, Jesus, and Paul were very vocal (gossip?) about exposing sin and did so publicly.

In the case of a sin of adultery, for example, it's not as though a 30-something Christian leader or pastor was sitting in a bar looking for a one-night stand. In the confines of an assembly, this sin must (imo) be entertained, planned and deliberately, willingly consented to by both parties over a period of time. In other words, sexual sin of any kind is not likely to be an impulse activity.

There's a lot of cover up also going on in churches to hide sexual sins including those that involve children and pornography. We must take a strong stand against sexual sin in our congregations once a lack of self-control or impropriety seems evident, it must be acted upon swiftly and I see no need to do so quietly. The rate of recidivism of sexual sin is very high. Ask anyone who is addicted to porn.

We are all held accountable for the standards we set and those we refuse to take action on.

... as I see it
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby redeemed1953 on Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:18 am

:armor:
1 Corinthians 5--Paul Speaking by the Power of the Holy Spirit--this is a guiding principal, which is basically ignored today.

1 Co 5:1
It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife.

1Co 5:2

You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.

1Co 5:3

For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present.

1Co 5:4

In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus,


1Co 5:5

I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


1Co 5:6

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?


1Co 5:7

Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.


1Co 5:8

Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.


1Co 5:9

I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;

1Co 5:10

I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.

1Co 5:11

But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

1Co 5:12

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?

1Co 5:13

But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

:a3:
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby HighBeams on Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:52 am

As has been pointed out, there is a certain Biblical standard set forth for those in pastoral positions, and it is a higher standard than that of the layperson. There is no question that some pastors will fall from grace. There is also no question that believers are to forgive when repentance has been requested and shown by the fallen one. What really astonishes me, though, is how so many expect that this fallen pastor should be placed back into the same position, responsibilities, and temptations that led to his downfall in the first place. Yes, we should forgive. Yes, we should restore to fellowship. No, we do not place them into the same situation of temptation that led to the downfall in the first place! Why would any sane person place, for example, a self-confessed child molester in charge of the nursery? This pastor may serve in another capacity (working with men only in a rehab program, for example), but he should never again be placed in a position that tempts him to such sin as he's demonstrated. You can never make the temptation itself go away from you. You can only stop feeding it so that it is not strong enough to trip you up again.
Cindy

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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:08 pm

Abiding in His Word wrote:In the case of a sin of adultery, for example, it's not as though a 30-something Christian leader or pastor was sitting in a bar looking for a one-night stand. In the confines of an assembly, this sin must (imo) be entertained, planned and deliberately, willingly consented to by both parties over a period of time. In other words, sexual sin of any kind is not likely to be an impulse activity.


Hi Abiding,

I don't know if what you have mentioned has been looked at in it's entirety. My experience in the "confines of an assembly" is very broad - as I have attended multiple Churches, to include many Denominational Congregations.

Sexual sins don't discriminate. Nor is sexual sin confined - as far as the Body of Christ is concerned; meaning that it is NOT limited to events that are planned, entertained, deliberate, or even willingly consented to by both parties over a period of time. Some are impulsively acted upon - as the lust of those particular individuals have been acted out at the right place, time, and/or circumstance. Nor are these sexual sins limited by race, sexual preference (male/female), social or economic status. Please trust me, as what I am reporting is very, very true. Sexual Immorality is very, very, REAL in the Body of Christ - and it goes on more often than most of us think or realize.

I believe that the Church may be one of the biggest places to "pick-up" the opposite sex than any singles bar, or night club at any given Church or Congregational Meeting. Unfortunately it's done under the umbrella of "Christianity".

I once had an older lady in the Church come on to me. I will not go into details, but let me say that the power of Satan as far as sexual sins is truly unmatched by anything we "think" we may know - or for some, have even experienced. I was totally unaware of her moves and her motives - and I was totally shocked, and in disbelief once I understood what was going on.

I spoke with an Elder member of my Church concerning this incident - however, I did not provide details, in order to not embarrass this woman. I thought at her age, surely this could not be going on, or what she was attempting to do. But this Elder had the discernment to understand what I mentioned to him, and read between the lines. He truly opened up my eyes to how sexual sin is probably the most dominate sin in the Body of Christ - other than GREED and gossip, which are not to be left out as well. Surely the tares will be allowed to grow with the wheat - at least until the Harvest. However, there is often time for Repentance with understanding and Prayer.

So, in closing....there is probably more sex and sexual sins that are going on in any given Church across the World than any of us realize.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:09 pm

HighBeams wrote: Yes, we should forgive. Yes, we should restore to fellowship. No, we do not place them into the same situation of temptation that led to the downfall in the first place!


Well said Cindy!

:a3: and :a3:
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby GodsStudent on Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:00 am

HighBeams wrote:As has been pointed out, there is a certain Biblical standard set forth for those in pastoral positions, and it is a higher standard than that of the layperson. There is no question that some pastors will fall from grace. There is also no question that believers are to forgive when repentance has been requested and shown by the fallen one. What really astonishes me, though, is how so many expect that this fallen pastor should be placed back into the same position, responsibilities, and temptations that led to his downfall in the first place. Yes, we should forgive. Yes, we should restore to fellowship. No, we do not place them into the same situation of temptation that led to the downfall in the first place! Why would any sane person place, for example, a self-confessed child molester in charge of the nursery? This pastor may serve in another capacity (working with men only in a rehab program, for example), but he should never again be placed in a position that tempts him to such sin as he's demonstrated. You can never make the temptation itself go away from you. You can only stop feeding it so that it is not strong enough to trip you up again.


I appreciated the entire post. Agree.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby Abiding in His Word on Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:23 am

HighBeams wrote:No, we do not place them into the same situation of temptation that led to the downfall in the first place! Why would any sane person place, for example, a self-confessed child molester in charge of the nursery?


What if a child molester is not "self-confessed?" Do churches check a predator database? Do they exercise caution and safety for children (and teens) by making sure they are never alone with them in ministry situations? Teams of men and women ensure safety.

If you are unsure, you might check to make certain your church has such a system in place.
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Re: Calvary Chapel's Bob Coy Resigns over Moral Failture

Postby redeemed1953 on Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:29 pm

What if a child molester is not "self-confessed?

:armor:

For the sake of all that is Holy, I have to say this.

A child molester is demon possessed



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