Fight Church

[Abiding in His Word]

*snip*

FIGHT CHURCH is a feature documentary about the confluence of Christianity and Mixed Martial Arts. The film follows several pastors and fighters in a quest to reconcile their faith with a sport that some consider violent and barbaric. Faith is tried and questions are raised. Can you really love your neighbor as yourself and then punch him in the face?

3.5 min. video

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 2Timothy 4:3-4

[Exit40]

Hi Abiding...

Can you really love your neighbor as yourself and then punch him in the face?

Well, sometimes I think some of them deserve it, but they are probably saying the same thing about me. As much as I beat myself up over my flesh, I am saving them the trouble.

Mat 5:9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

God Bless You

David

[daffodyllady]

Well... the only way to find out if you can really love your neighbor and then punch him in the face, is to put it to the test...

The way I know I love my neighbor as myself, is if I do to him exactly what I want him to do to me.

Therefore, if you think it is ok to kit your neighbor, first ask him to hit you as hard as he can, and then just stand there and thank him for it, with a smile on your face.

If you cant do that, then it isn't something you should be doing to him.

[mark s]

One of our local pastors is big into this. It's always seemed like a conflict to me. But they draw the worldly and unbelievers by their exhibitions, and then preach the Gospel.

His son started "the whosoevers", which I also look at what they do and cringe, but likewise, they preach the Gospel to the worldly and unsaved.

My concern, though, is what they are communicating is OK for Christianity.

Love in Christ,
Mark

[Abiding in His Word]

One of our local pastors is big into this. It's always seemed like a conflict to me. But they draw the worldly and unbelievers by their exhibitions, and then preach the Gospel.

I certainly believe in drawing unbelievers to events, but participation is a different story. For example, there is a thread about the gospel being preached in a bar, but there is no alcohol being served during that time. This is an outreach in a location to some who may never attend a church.

I'm a sports fan and some entail a fight or two during an event. But the goal, for example, for football is to get the ball to the other end of the field. The goal for basketball is a basket. The goal of hockey is a goal. But the goal of boxing is to knock the heck out of another person. That's always bothered me. To use the gospel as an excuse to participate in such a violent sport seems contradictory and inconsistent to the fruit of the spirit. It encourages physical violence against another person and the equivalent of Mark Driscoll saying that he couldn't respect a Jesus who couldn't beat him up.

His son started "the whosoevers", which I also look at what they do and cringe, but likewise, they preach the Gospel to the worldly and unsaved.

Cringe is a good word to describe these types of outreaches imo. What is the message behind the message I wonder? Again, I draw the line, not in the outreach, but in the participation in inappropriate behavior that might go along with that effort.

My concern, though, is what they are communicating is OK for Christianity.

Exactly my concern as well.

[AndCanItBe]

Something that sets off all kind of alarm bells for me is how they say they're having some kind of kickboxing thing at the church in the beginning of the trailer and they show the boys with headgear and such and it's all brightly lit. Then the Pastor says that he would like to have MMA at the church but cannot because of the law, the next speaker says MMA is illegal in that state and people do not want it. Then they show a totally different setting that is dark, with a cage and grown men with no protective gear fighting, while advocating MMA. It certainly gives the impression they're having the MMA fights for the adult men somewhere secretive at night because they're illegal! Is that what the boys are training for? The entire sport aside, it does not look like these guys are obeying the governing authorities and they're teaching kids not to either. That trailer is probably going to get them arrested at some point. On that grounds alone, they are way outside scripture, totally wrong.

To me that little boy saying he was going to go out there and "rip this kid's head off", tells you the message they are really sending to the unbelievers in their organization.

I cringe at the idea of church sport teams at all, but a few years ago I participated in a softball team anyway, and I learned that most of the witnessing is done to the people who only show up to church during softball season so they can play. That was something I did not get, so while I still cringe (at the idea, not the people who participate), I can see the value in it now. It just isn't my ministry. This goes way beyond bristling at an idea into actually wrong, IMO.

[Abiding in His Word]

The video showing today is a longer one than the one I linked to yesterday (6 min. as opposed to 3.5 min). But this is a prime example of twisting scripture to make it fit an agenda. To state the fact that "all life is a battle" and that "satan wants to destroy...." and then use those facts to justify physical beating is crazy to say the least. We are clearly told what our warfare weapons are and our fists are not among those found in the list.

When that pastor comments that "this is the type of Jesus I want to serve," he exposes himself as a hireling not a shepherd.

This type of ministry reminded me of an article I read entitled "The Warrior Bride" which indicated the bride is on testosterone.

This is reminiscent of statements "Bishop" Bill Hamon, a NAR leader, made at the New Life Church in South Africa on November 13, 1997:

"The Bride [of Christ] has combat boots on. I said, the Bride of Christ has combat boots on under her wedding dress. . . .

link

[daffodyllady]

One of our local pastors is big into this. It's always seemed like a conflict to me. But they draw the worldly and unbelievers by their exhibitions, and then preach the Gospel.

His son started "the whosoevers", which I also look at what they do and cringe, but likewise, they preach the Gospel to the worldly and unsaved.

My concern, though, is what they are communicating is OK for Christianity.

Love in Christ,
Mark

I once heard a minister say this: "Whatever you have to do to win the world, is what you will have to keep on doing to keep the world."

It seems to me that using appeals to the fallen nature, such as programs that cater to the appetites of the flesh (i.e. gluttony, lust, etc) actually do more to harm the church, than it does to actually draw unsaved people to God.

[mark s]

I think back to what Paul said, whether for good motive or bad, the Gospel is preached.

But I don't like the violence, and I don't thing it belongs.

[Abiding in His Word]

I wonder at what point during the fight exhibition the gospel is preached. Paul was not endorsing sinful pursuits to justify preaching the gospel.

What should set off an alarm for us is the twisting of scripture in this type of endeavor. To equate MMA with the battles we face in life is ludicrous and false application of scripture to say the least.

Using this type of logic/reasoning, believers might organize trips to reach prostitutes who need to hear the gospel. But we wouldn't expect them to participate in their sin and then justify it by misquoting scripture. Or they could organize "Las Vegas" events every Saturday night at their churches. Those with gambling addictions, after all, need Christ too. Come and learn the tricks of the trade. No problem....casting lots was a common practice in scripture.

As daffodyllady mentioned, these types of events appeal to the fallen/carnal nature. Paul reminds us that the things that appeal to the flesh are in opposition to the things of the Spirit. While we should understand the process of growing in the fruit of the Spirit, we should not endorse nor encourage the sinful things that appeal to the flesh imo, and certainly not participate in them under the guise of reaching the lost.

[Resurrection Torchlight]

Okay so where do you draw the line? How far into the world do we go in order to "preach the gospel?" should I smoke pot with my neighbor so that I can gain him as an audience for the gospel? Is it okay to perform a strip tease dance so that you can give the gospel? Is it okay to host a party with kegs of beer in the back yard and a loud rock band, as long as you give the gospel? I guess this is not what I envision the great commission to mean when it says: "go ye into all the world". We are in the world but we are not to be "of" the world.

Today's society has become entertainment driven, our churches have succumbed to the notion that in order to be relevant, they need to adopt the world's culture. I personally believe that this has led to the loss of spiritual power in our churches, as entertaining the flesh has diminished the spiritual growth of those so called "seekers" that they are targeting. People seem to now believe that emotional experience is what defines spirituality, leaving the church with few mature believers able to disciple those spiritual infants.

I don't think it is wrong to bring the gospel to these folks who attend these kinds of activities, Jesus went where the common folks gathered and brought them His truth, but he did not participate in their deeds in order to gain an audience. Paul entered the Areopagus and preached the gospel, using the altar to the unknown God as a springboard. But he did not participate in idol worship to gain the acceptance of the men of Athens. He met them where they gathered, but he did not participate in their rituals. I think we tread a slippery slope when we participate in "rituals" that glorify man above God and justify it by "sharing the gospel", it sends a mixed message to unbelievers IMO.

Just my 2 cents

RT

(PS after posting I realized that others have echoed the same sentiment- sorry for repeating the same ideas)

[mark s]

I wish that more of them actually wanted to be discipled!

[Resurrection Torchlight]

I wish that more of them actually wanted to be discipled!

I agree, sadly because more and more believers are equating "experience" with spiritual maturity they don't think they need disciplining, they in fact think that those of us who are not all about "experience" are not spiritual and are too pragmatic in our understanding. They believe that they are the mature ones and that folks like us are not. It's just so upside down, I see this in church after church that we have attended. It's very sad.

RT

[Exit40]

The guy that says he can't follow a god who can't beat him up doesn't understand how God beats us up, rather chastises us.
I wonder if he will even recognize his own chastisement, when it comes upon him. He needs to quit making God in his own image.

Jhn 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

God Bless

David

[Abiding in His Word]

The guy that says he can't follow a god who can't beat him up doesn't understand how God beats us up, rather chastises us.
I wonder if he will even recognize his own chastisement, when it comes upon him. He needs to quit making God in his own image.

Jhn 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

I don't think I got his quote exactly right. Here it is:

"There is a strong drift toward the hard theological left. Some emergent types [want] to recast Jesus as a limp-wrist hippie in a dress with a lot of product in His hair, who drank decaf and made pithy Zen statements about life while shopping for the perfect pair of shoes. Jesus is a pride fighter with a tattoo down His leg, a sword in His hand and the commitment to make someone bleed. That is a guy I can worship. I cannot worship the hippie, diaper, halo Christ because I cannot worship a guy I can beat up."

[Exit40]

Hi Abiding, thanks. My statements stand though. If we think of Jesus temporally we won't understand patience, grace and mercy. At some point we will all stand before Him. We need to do this every day by putting on His full armour. Difficult for sure, but it is attainable. It's called the patience and Faith of the Saints. We have no human enemies even though it appears that way. Some of these can accept Jesus at the very last second. If we raise our hand against these we might be the cause of their failures. I don't want to be like that, I'm gonna just stand here and take it, and I mean stand. My life is in the Lord's hands anyway, I seek to please him. It's therefore up to Him my status as I live out my life in this upside down world. I believe He wants me to rely on Him, I know He can take care of me and use me for His purpose. It really helps that I abhor violence.

Nevertheless, this man appears to be in a walk with Christ. I pray the Lord helps him along.

God Bless You

David

[Keeping Alert]

Well, this fighter got some things right though...

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/boxing/manny-pacquiao-congressman-pacquiao-rips-president-obama-stance-165741476.html

Manny Pacquiao — Congressman Pacquiao — rips President Obama for stance on gay marriage

[daffodyllady]

I think we really need to think about where Jesus went to try to find people to reach.

You do not find him hanging out in sinful places, to try to win those people.
He did not put on side shows, to entertain the shallow-minded and bored wealthy class.

He went about his business of teaching his disciples, healing the sick, and preaching the gospel in the open air and in homes. The crowds followed Him around. He did not chase the crowds. They chased Him.

[A_Watchman]

As a martial artist, since I was nine, I find that the philsophy of MMA is contrary to everything I was taught. As a Christian, I believe that there is a time, and a place for everything. Church is not where I fight. It is where I go for sanctuary from the fight. The martial arts was designed to protect against antaganism. Not propagate it. May the Lord open this pastors eyes.