Could you really vote for a...

[good4u1]

CULTIST?

If it did come down to Romney as the "last man standing" in the primaries...as a bible-believing Christian...would you vote for him?

I just wonder would others would do if this was our choice...I ask myself this question lots...what say you all?

[4givenmuch]

I don't care for him, but not because of his religious beliefs. He just seems like such a bureaucrat- We alraedy have plenty just like him! I like Cain- we need some new blood on the hill!

[Salty Skipper]

Obama or Romney? There is no doubt, I would vote for Romney. Even though I know he would do nothing do remedy anything Obama has done. I simply in good conscience could not "not" vote against a socialist.

[Jericho]

If it did come down to Romney as the "last man standing" in the primaries...as a bible-believing Christian...would you vote for him?

Well, some would say we already have a Muslim in office so could it be much worse? I don't care for Romney but anyone is better than Obama.

[Abiding in His Word]

I would say if you agree with his tax plan, immigration and foreign policies, and abortion that's what's important on the governmental/federal level.

[good4u1]

I read a commentary from Sandy Rios about how values including spiritual values affect implementation of political policies, Abiding which got me thinking again on this question. Obama's background and setting under radical preacher Jeramiah Wright colors how he implements policies and how much as a Christian I disagree with those implementations. It would be no different under Romney as a Mormon and a Cultist, he has the same color but a different stripe. This is what Sandy Rios was driving at, and she makes a compelling argument and tho' she endorsed no GOP candidate in the commentary, she gave much food for thought about evaluating political candidates.

Hence, why I think no clear front-runner exists at the moment as all GOP candidates fall short of a true conservative who can articulate clear and convincing policy and its implementation. As a result, it may very well fall to Romney who has the most practice and polished appeal who has been running as a presidential candidate for 5 yrs and may very well be the "last man standing" by default. Then what? That is my question to you all.

[Abiding in His Word]

here's an interesting list of former Presidents and their religious affiliations. I wonder how each incorporated their beliefs with their political views.

Of course, all of humanity's views are individually colored by their values, beliefs, ethnicity, gender, and life's experiences in general. Hopefully our system of checks & balances, senate, house, Presidential advisers, etc. enable political decisions to be in the best interest of our country and it's individual citizens.

[good4u1]

And the results of those beliefs have, at times, been disastrous for our country. Woodrow Wilson comes to mind...one of the worst Presidents from the last century to take the reigns of power and the ideological Father of the Modern Progressive Movement to which many leftist radicals subscribe. Barack Obama and his socialistic values from his ideological firmness in that the Government is responsible to re-distribute the wealth of its citizens to make it fairer to everyone and is Kenseyian in practice of a failed economic policy.

It is highly discouraging that the American Electorate is so uninformed that they will willingly vote for whomever the MSM tells them to regardless of the potential harm done to the country as a whole as Obama has so clearly demonstrated in his failed presidency. It just is all so disheartening. If I did not know my sovereign God will right all wrongs and administer justice in the end. It would be a very bitter living in this country knowing full well it is on the decline as a world power.

But for now...I am facing the question of whether God will raise up one who is a gold standard in leadership or will I be forced to possibly vote for a Cultist? That is a dilemma.

[GodsStudent]

http://www.olivetreeviews.org/radio/mp3/

good4U1, I thought of this program when I read your comments on this thread. I listened to the October 15, hour 1 program by Jan Markell, who played a conference speech by Bill Koenig, Christian White House Press Secretary. It was a fantastic program, I thought.

[Abiding in His Word]

If I did not know my sovereign God will right all wrongs and administer justice in the end. It would be a very bitter living in this country knowing full well it is on the decline as a world power.

The knowledge that God is sovereign and the nations are His to accomplish His purposes is the truth we must stand on in faith. We study the candidates and their positions on important matters and in the end, prayerfully make the best choice according to our conscience. That's our responsibility and privilege as citizens of a free country. Then it's in God's hands imho.

I remember a similar fear when John F. Kennedy (as a Roman Catholic) announced he was running for President. I can't know for certain,, but I doubt a number of Americans began to pledge allegiance to the Pope during his presidency.

[AndCanItBe]

If I did not know my sovereign God will right all wrongs and administer justice in the end. It would be a very bitter living in this country knowing full well it is on the decline as a world power.

The knowledge that God is sovereign and the nations are His to accomplish His purposes is the truth we must stand on in faith. We study the candidates and their positions on important matters and in the end, prayerfully make the best choice according to our conscience. That's our responsibility and privilege as citizens of a free country. Then it's in God's hands imho.

I agree with you both, and for me, knowing it's in God's hands, Romney will never get my vote. I don't believe he'll be any better than our current President for a minute. He says anything he can to appear that he's a moderate Republican, including flip-flopping on several issues. He doesn't seem to have any firm agenda of his own beyond getting elected, in which case who knows what agenda he'll follow in office? The only thing I am sure of about him is that he will work to implement Obamacare in some form, rather than repeal it. Even if he said he was a member of a Protestant denomination, I wouldn't vote for him, I'll vote third party.

It is extremely important that we vote in the primaries, IMO. I did not wake up to that until the last election. The primaries are where we really have the best chance to choose based on the ideal, rather than pragmatism.

[Salty Skipper]

It is extremely important that we vote in the primaries, IMO. I did not wake up to that until the last election. The primaries are where we really have the best chance to choose based on the ideal, rather than pragmatism.

Well stated.

[Salty Skipper]

I think that there may be a few states where Romney doesn't stand a chance. He's just a wet noodle. I don't think that most R's or I's want a wet noodle right now. Jmo.

[mrgravyard49]

As of Now its down to Cain, Romney or Perry.. Pery dont stand a change against Obama because people see him as another bush.. =No.. Romney has to many holes to many issues, he is no different than those who are in Congress.
Cain is totally different.. A Real Deal . Once Poor so he can relate to SOOOO Many Americans..
Also Many people can vote for him and not be called a Racest for turning against Obama..
Its a Win Win Deal for America..
If,,, If there is another election,,, I just feel Obama isnt goin to let that Happen.. Pray I am Wrong..

[Sword of Geddon]

As of Now its down to Cain, Romney or Perry.. Pery dont stand a change against Obama because people see him as another bush.. =No.. Romney has to many holes to many issues, he is no different than those who are in Congress.
Cain is totally different.. A Real Deal . Once Poor so he can relate to SOOOO Many Americans..
Also Many people can vote for him and not be called a Racest for turning against Obama..
Its a Win Win Deal for America..
If,,, If there is another election,,, I just feel Obama isnt goin to let that Happen.. Pray I am Wrong..

There is not much he could do to stop elections. Don't forget a great percentage of the population owns guns, and those same people would likely be pointing those guns in Obama's face if he tried something like that. There would be an angry crowd converging on the White House very soon after he suspended elections.

[mrgravyard49]

How about America being attacked? Big Time God forbid.. Or Our economy falls completely.. Or Who knows? a Rapture? Which would leave mostly Obama Fan voters..

[Sword of Geddon]

Even if we were attacked or the economy fully tanked there are enough americans who are patriotic enough to make Obama hesitate before trying to make himself dictator. In fact the economy fully tanking or a invasion by a foreign enemy would probably make the populace get rid of Obama sooner.

[daffodyllady]

If America were "attacked" a la 9-11, Herman Cain would become very attractive to many people.

Of course, I would not put it past O to rig another election, or to declare martial law by creating a national emergency.

[laney]

If America were "attacked" a la 9-11, Herman Cain would become very attractive to many people.

Of course, I would not put it past O to rig another election, or to declare martial law by creating a national emergency.

Right on daffy. Well the darts are sure flying on Cain now aren't they?

[Sword of Geddon]

The liberal media and company can't stand Cain, just as they couldn't stand Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Cain represents a big threat to the liberal establishment, which is why they believe he must be destroyed.

[good4u1]

Interesting poll today out folks...my thread is not for nothing.

Romney would be Obama in a head to head match up IF the election were held today...the Cultist wins over the Marxist!

But note that the margin of error in the poll is plus or minus 4 percent!!! There is always a but in polls...

[Salty Skipper]

A ham sandwich would beat Obama if the election were held today.

[GodsStudent]

A ham sandwich would beat Obama if the election were held today.

I heard something very disturbing on Jan Markell's show, done this past weekend by Eric Barger. The guest to Eric Barger said that Mormonism is the fastest growing religion in the US right now.

[burien1]

Our missionary in the Dominican Republic, said they are spreading faster than anyone. They are everywhere.

[Mrs. B]

Could you really vote for a......

Remmber the A/C will be religious......that is how he deceives so many.....He will be a world leader....but he has to get Power to rule to take over the world.....he is a deceiver.....and he says all the right things.....just what we all want to hear.......then after he gets control....he turns....takes over.....

He has a mouth......says all the right things.....he will sound so good.....like the answer to all our problems....
I'm not saying he will come out of America....but he has to come and deceive....with words and flatteries
deceiving if possible the very elect...he get his power from satan...

Just writting this to cause us to watch.....and pray..

Mrs. B

[FreeInHim]

The guest to Eric Barger said that Mormonism is the fastest growing religion in the US right now.

One of the primary reasons for this is that they are the MOST organized of all the cults. Extremely methodical in their spread. They place constant emphasis on their young to go on missions; most young adult Mormons anticipate and are expected to go out on a 2 year mission when they reach a certain age. There are now millions of them, going door-to-door throughout the globe, spreading Mormonism.

Sadly, many of the things that would shock people away from the cult such as having to wear "garments," take secret oaths, and the sheer amount of time you will be expected to devote to the "church" is never revealed until after you've been drawn in. Otherwise, I don't believe their numbers would be climbing as they are.

[Sword of Geddon]

I've always had a fear that in removing Obama from office, people elect the antichrist himself to replace him.

A year or so ago I watched a movie called "Batman and Superman: Public Enemies". There was time of extreme uncertainty and economic distress under the previous(unnamed) President, then Lex Luthor was elected and he completely fixed America, which became stronger under his leadership than under any previous President.

Sometimes Fiction mirrors Reality...

Not saying that Mitt is the antichrist, just that I do not trust him, and that we should be careful. Mitt knows how to talk the talk. Every debate he has been in generally he is said to preform well. But what exactly DOES Mitt Romney believe? What are his core values. I read a rumor that he once took advice from John Holdren, Obama's "Science Czar" and someone is a big proponent of "agenda 21". If that is true, that may be a clue to the true face of Mitt Romney.

[good4u1]

Not saying that Mitt is the antichrist, just that I do not trust him, and that we should be careful. Mitt knows how to talk the talk. Every debate he has been in generally he is said to preform well. But what exactly DOES Mitt Romney believe? What are his core values. I read a rumor that he once took advice from John Holdren, Obama's "Science Czar" and someone is a big proponent of "agenda 21". If that is true, that may be a clue to the true face of Mitt Romney.

I do not trust Romney either, Sword. Again, we are on the same team...surprise!

But you have got me curious...could you explain further, as best you can, what "agenda 21" is for me and the folks? I'm not familiar with this philosophy, if it is one. I'm sure I'm not gonna like it whatever it is. Thanks.

[Sword of Geddon]

Agenda 21 is also known as "Sustainable Development", and is a wide-reaching plan many Globalists have in order to control population size, growth and society as a whole. It is an amalgam of marxism and extreme envirimentalism, combined with a healthy dose of Anti-Americanism.

From the Blaze.com:

What is Agenda 21? If you do not know about it, you should.

Agenda 21 is a two-decade old, grand plan for global ’Sustainable Development,’ brought to you from the United Nations. George H.W. Bush (and 177 other world leaders) agreed to it back in 1992, and in 1995, Bill Clinton signed Executive Order #12858, creating a Presidential Council on ‘Sustainable Development.’ This effectively pushed the UN plan into America’s large, churning government machine without the need for any review or discussion by Congress or the American people.

‘Sustainable Development’ sounds like a nice idea, right? It sounds nice, until you scratch the surface and find that Agenda 21 and Sustainable Development are really cloaked plans to impose the tenets of Social Justice/Socialism on the world.

At risk from Agenda 21;

Private Property ownership
Single-Family homes
Private car ownership and individual travel choices
Privately owned farms

The Agenda 21 plan openly targets private property. For over thirty-five years the UN has made their stance very clear on the issue of individuals owning land;

Land… cannot be treated as an ordinary asset, controlled by individuals and subject to the pressures and inefficiencies of the market. Private land ownership is also a principal instrument of accumulation and concentration of wealth and therefore contributes to social injustice; if unchecked, it may become a major obstacle in the planning and implementation of development schemes. The provision of decent dwellings and healthy conditions for the people can only be achieved if land is used in the interest of society as a whole.

Source: United Nations Conference on Human Settlements (Habitat I),Vancouver, BC, May 31 – June 11, 1976. Preamble to Agenda Item 10 of the Conference Report.

Read the rest here: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/is-the- ... ot-hidden/


Here are some more links:

http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/res_ ... 1_00.shtml

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/10/ ... neigh.html

[burien1]

The governor of my state is pushing this agenda on us. He is now stepping up on the national scene, as the head of the democratic governors. His agenda this week is to go after the governor of Wisconsin.

Good4u1,
One of our members here, has the best website out there, on the global green agenda, sustainable development, and the UN's Agenda 21.Everyone of the links on the left hand side of the page, are eye opening.

http://green-agenda.com/globalrevolution.html

[Abiding in His Word]

Agenda 21

In the U.S., Agenda 21 is called by different names. We call it “sustainable development,” “sustainable communities,” “Local 21,” “Smart Growth,” and a whole bevy of other names. However, all these governmentally imposed programs and changes that we now see in our communities (and worldwide) are upon the insistence of the U.N. as outlined in the Agenda 21 document.

First and foremost, Agenda 21 mandated that there is to be NO ownership of private property – worldwide. The U.N. believes that all land, watershed systems, and natural resources must be owned and administered by “government.” To American people, this is what we consider to be Communism. We believe that ownership of property is directly tied to freedom.

link

Let’s imagine that we all live the Agenda 21 way.

We own no land. We have no guns. We have no vote. Our children are the property of a global government taught by NGO agents called Career Certification Specialists, and God is outlawed and a thing of the past.

We are assigned to employers who are assigned to our settlement territories. There is no local government and there are no counties or cities. We are barred from large forests, natural fresh waters, and beachfront properties, which are all owned by businesses and used, tax free, by their families and friends.

link

[good4u1]

This is truly alarming and IF Mitt Romney is a backer of such a philosophy then we have much to be concerned about...it would indeed be a prelude to a One World Gov't...and who controls it in effect controls who lives or dies IF we do not play their way and opposition of any type would be eliminated and create a Tyrant and tyrannical system of the worst kind. It should be verified that Romney endorses such a belief system before attaching it to him, however. But if the fact proves this is so, other GOP candidates should be making this public for an honest evaluation by the voters and if Obama has already done so, I can't see why he shouldn't since he is a marxist at heart, imo (far beyond a socialist as I initially thought) then that too should be made clear to the voters for their evaluation.

This coming presidential election next year will be the most far-reaching in the direction of our country in modern history...the entire country is at stake here. This is why there is so much back-and-forth among conservatives there is no clear front-runner conservative (which I used to think was Bachmann) to rally support behind. Truly, this is distressing.

If the West does not step up and confront Iran as we have failed to do thus far...and they, God forbid, explode a nuclear bomb somewhere...we very likely would be thrusted into the Great Tribulation. Such a nuclear fall-out from detonating a bomb will be unstoppable; it will bring modern civilization of man to its knees and will be on the brink destroying ourselves, but for the intervention of the return of Jesus. As bad as the global economic crisis is and it is bad, very bad; a nuclear armed Iran trumps it all because of the devastating global affects upon the Earth and it may very well be that is what happens. Radical Islamic ideology and nuclear armament are a deadly mix...at least during the cold war you could reason with Marxist Russians...that is not the case when fanatical false religion and nuclear arms are in play.

The Obama Admn as has prior past WH Admns under-estimate the deadly intentions of Iran as foretold in the Bible. Turkey has come under the sphere of Iran and has basically abandoned Israel. The Obama Admn is no better than Turkey and what happens in the next year either before or after the election of the next US President will be a something and I have no idea how this will turn out.

[Abiding in His Word]

The above links are, of course, editorials. The complete overview of Agenda 21 is found on the web site of the U.N..

[Sword of Geddon]

If I was President I'd have the U.S. leave the UN, cut all of the funding they get from us, and kick them out of the United States. It really is something to even think that they have the nerve to propose things like agenda 21 in this country of all places.

On Romney it is too soon to directly tie him to support of Agenda 21, but I suggest we all do our homework and see what we can't come up with...

[good4u1]

I could be mistaken about this...but the League of Nations, the forerunner to the United Nations, was proposed by the United States and why it was headquartered here I think after one of the World Wars (WWI perhaps?). We are the primary sponsor of the UN and the largest financial contributor to this political theater and yes, it should be abolished or at least we should stop sponsoring an entity that seeks our demise as a nation, as I see it.

At any rate, Romney may indeed be "the last man standing" as he is at least consistent in the national polls, but he does not have the hearts of conservatives and likely never will...but polls indicate he could beat Obama, tho' it would be a close one. Unfortunately, this does not bring me comfort either...

[Sword of Geddon]

Isn't there a growing "anyone but Romney" camp among likely Republican primary voters?

[good4u1]

Possibly. But nothing is a sure-fire bet as you know. The front-runner status has changed more than a US weather forecast so no one is really winning the hearts (and votes) of conservatives. It means conservatives are not truly happy with any of the candidates. America has traditionally been a center to right nation...tho' you wouldn't know that by the portrayal by the liberal media. So it is uncertain how Americans are truly leaning...is it left or is it right? It is a big unknown.

[water]

I would definitely vote for Romney over Obama.

I would vote for a bag of Cheetos over Obama.

[good4u1]

I would definitely vote for Romney over Obama.

I would vote for a bag of Cheetos over Obama.

You being a conservative and Christian, I understand...

But the question is would the rest of America? Especially, when they have no real Christian underpinnings...let alone a moral compass to guide them...IS Romney really better than Obama? Really? I'm not so sure.

[water]

I would definitely vote for Romney over Obama.

I would vote for a bag of Cheetos over Obama.

You being a conservative and Christian, I understand...

But the question is would the rest of America? Especially, when they have no real Christian underpinnings...let alone a moral compass to guide them...IS Romney really better than Obama? Really? I'm not so sure.

I really doubt he could win against Obama since he seems to be the typical politician. I think we have barely begun to see the games that will unravel for this coming election (speaking to the occupy sesame street activities). We have a whole new generation of voters coming to 2012 that received trophies for losing, so they expect everything for nothing (which they do not realize can never happen...due to the loser trophies)...and that is exactly what Obama is going to promise again.

I would be completely shocked in the biggest of ways if Romney beat Obama. Romney is the epitome of the politician that everyone is trying to bury.

[Sword of Geddon]

Romney would have a hard time with Obama if the tea party and hard conservatives choose to stay home, like what happened with John Mccain last time. If they do show up in force then I think Romney will carry all the votes that are center right and brutally crush Obama.

[good4u1]

Do you really think that is what happened that the T partiers and the conservatives boycotted the last presidential election? Hmmm....I am a T party sympathizer and definitely a conservative, yet I did my civic duty and voted for McCain as much as I wished it were someone else. I don't think that is why McCain lost. But that is past. We must look forward now.

This is even a bigger dilemma this time around. Say it is Romney, our friendly "never-give up I'll wear them down" Cultist is the GOP candidate. As bible-believing Christians to participate in our government, what are you going to do? For that matter, what am I going to do? I, frankly, still don't have a good answer to this question. I cannot boycott as I feel it would be a sell out to Obama and I am not about to do that, so I guess I should pray for a third party hero...but then does that give Obama the election outright? I'm not sure any third party ever won the presidency. I am perplexed and tormented and so much is at stake.

[water]

Yes, just on the single point of healthcare alone, Romney has no leg to stand on. Since he was essentially responsible for a mini Obamacare in his own state (at least in popular opinion, which is king), he will never get traction on the anti-socialist path, which is IMO the path to be on to win.

[Sword of Geddon]

Exactly. The fact he has healthcare as part of his political identity, and has repeated that he believes the government has the right to force people to buy certain things(health or car insurance), means people who want someone who is against socialism will look at people other than Romney.

The Media is being very careful and tricky, they are making sure to release bits of information and misinformation, all to prevent a good person from getting up there and becoming a serious threat to Romney. Perry entering the race took alot of the steam from Bachmann, Perry then pretty much shot himself in the foot with his illegal immigration comments. After Cain took off the media released that scandal, and now he is behind Gingrinch, who just coincidentally has to deal with his own scandal recently reveals by the media.

The Media REALLLLLY wants Romney for some reason. I think it really is sad how powerful the media is in our political process. They should have no power.

[good4u1]

That's it! It is the liberal Media who wants Romney to be the GOP candidate and are doing everything in their power to make that happen! Ah ha! Why doesn't O'Reilly figure this out and report it?

Why would the liberal media do this?

Maybe they think if Romney did win they could control him like Obama or if they pit Romney against Obama they believe Obama could beat him and win re-election. Anyone else other than Romney would be a threat to them and they would loose power politically esp. a true conservative like Michelle Bachmann who btw, is becoming non-existent as a viable candidate. She still is my heart's desire and if she is still in the primaries when we have them in my state, I will vote for her. She is most in line with my values and she WILL repeal Obamacare or die trying.

This is why Romney is a no show in Iowa the true right of Iowa know that he is not one of them and will never agree to select him in the primary. This is a true political fight for the heart and soul of the GOP. The GOP Establishment are no fans of Romney either, but because of his vast wealth he may not need them initially. IF Romney does win the nomination w/o the GOP establishment or the conservatives it will indeed be because of the liberal media who influenced the uninformed moderate sometimes GOP voters.

Tho' the High Court may have the last word on Obamacare...another issue for fodder in the heat of election when the decision will be handed down in June.

[daffodyllady]

good4u1, I am convinced that whoever runs, on either party's ticket, they will have been vetted by the powers-that-be on Capitol Hill. For the last how many years, we have had more of the same, no matter which party wins the White house. Oh sure, there has been much trumpeting of ideological differences between parties... But McCain, both Bushes, Romney and Gingrich... it's all the same tune.

[good4u1]

That is a pretty jaded and cynical post, daffodyllady. If what you say was true, there is no reason to vote in the election process because in your opinion, it is rigged is the bottom line. I do not agree. If Christians cannot make a difference in the election process, then Satan has won. He has not and does not have ultimate control tho' he certainly wants you to believe that and it seems you do. As a follower of Christ, I for one will exercise my God-given right under the Constitution. For the principle of governance is created under God for the good of man.

[jgilberAZ]

By all means, vote.

But, is it God honoring to vote FOR the lesser of two evils?

Look at all the candidates, not just the two main parties, and vote your conscience, leaving the results with God.

http://constitutionparty.org/news.php?aid=59

Choosing between a phony conservative Republican and an honest liberal Democrat is no choice at all. One may as well argue the benefits of voting for Nero over Caligula. No, the only choice is to vote for a true conservative. If one cannot be found in the Republican Party, try looking to a minor party. The Constitution Party comes to mind. If enough conservatives would vote their conscience, the Constitution Party would not be a minor party, and we wouldn't be left choosing between Nero and Caligula as "the lesser of two evils."

[Sword of Geddon]

The problem with voting for a third party is that so many (rightly so) do not believe they have a chance of beating either major party, moreover many remember that when third parties got enough support even to take away 1%-2% of the vote, the party opposite to them ideologically won. In 1992 the Reform Party split the conservative vote and was the true reason Clinton got two terms. Gore was threatened by the Green Party back in 2000. Considering how close that election was, it would not surprise me if the Republicans backed Ralph Nader.

My advice is to do all you can to vote for the best Republican candidate in the primary. If people do that we might not have to worry about a lesser of two evils scenerio.

[Abiding in His Word]

Evidently Romney will speak briefly about his Mormon faith this evening. If you're up at 10 p.m., it's a good chance to hear his views.