Homosexuality

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Re: Homosexuality

Postby GodsStudent on Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:21 pm

mark s wrote:
extravagantchristian wrote:Does God make people with cleft palates or downs syndrome? If so then yes, He could make some people with the tendency to be gay.

In Romans, God explains that some people He gives over to this particular sin as a personal judgment. But it's a judgment brought forth by their rejection of God. His wrath upon them. But He didn't make them that way. He made all of us the same, to become His children, to know Him forever. Not to be nulified by some built in defect.


I don't think that being gay is always a personal judgment brought forth by their rejection of God, I think this could have a broader meaning,
Maybe God gradually gives a society over to homosexuality (being mainstream) over a period of time, when that society grows more and more ungodly. The children, grandchildren reaping the sins of the elder generation.


Hi EC,

I think being born with Downs or a cleft palette is a different sort of matter. I think this would be more like being born with the propensity to steal, or to lie. But then, we all are in fact born with the propensity to sin. We're sinners. As you've been pointing out, sin is sin, no matter what flavor. Although God tells us that sexual sins are different, in that we sin against our own bodies. And that can make these kind of sins seem particulary overwhelming.

So I'd say that people are born with sex attractions, and are born with greed and avarice, and are born with fear and worry, and so on. Which will be more strong in my flesh? Will I be a murderer, or a thief? Will I do none of those, but spend my days wishing I had what my neighbors have? All are the products of being people who are dead, and in death, are in transgression.

I'd say that all temptations are common to man. We all go through the same sorts of testings and tempations. But we must not say that God tempts us to sin, He doesn't do that. We do that when we go after whatever it is we want, outside of the Lord.

This is always the question, born that way, or not? Nature or nurture? This is why I don't think it matters.

None of us can on our own stop being sinners, whatever kind we are.

All of us can, in Jesus' power, be born again, a new creation, born from God, without sin.

Can we even know whether we are born a certain way or not? I may completely believe I've been "gay" (actually meaning happy) - have had "Same Sex Attraction Disorder" from my earliest childhood. Born that way. Like I'd even know! Do I remember, do I understand, all that happened in my life? Choices that I made, impulses I've yielded to out of basic sinfulness, that built into a life while I wasn't even looking?

"But I hate the way I am!" Doesn't this negate the notion of choicing this lifestyle? I'd have to say no, it does not. It's well known that people make conflicting choice, that people act contrary to their values, and that choices and actions accumulate into a lifestyle.

Give in once, give in again, hate the aftermath, but enjoy the sin. Doesn't that describe the general life of sin, again, whatever flavor? People chose what they hate, because even thought it doesn't "work for them" in overall life, it works for them right now.

A person can simply be seeking affirmation and acceptance, and happens to find it in that direction, and then continues that path. Even though they believe it is wrong. Even though they are distressed by their own lives. Yet the emotional needs return, and the mind, the brain, it knows, go there . . . that's where you can find . . . what ever it is you are seeking.

The old way.

But in the new way, we are new in Jesus. And none of the old remains. Anything that propelled us into the works of the flesh, whatever they are, no longer have the slightest bit of power over us. And if we can come to believe that is true, we can take up that power and rule over our bodies in the strength of the Holy Spirit.

It's not a matter of repairing our lives. It's a matter of forsaking those lives completely, with all of their dreams and wants and needs and desires and frustrations and failures and sins and everything. Anything that seems a part of us that does not match with the Bible's description of who we are, and what God has done for us, is not part of the new us.

And anything that is a part of the old us can simply be walked away from, again, in the power of the Holy Spirit.

When we come to believe that is so, then we will do it, and find that it is true.

Much love!
Mark


This writing is a perfect explanation of what "it" is.....nomatter what the sin, we can walk away from it, one day at a time, praying ceaselessly through that day and the next and the next until we are no longer in bondage by whatever the sin in question is.

Perfect and to say much more would perhaps take away from what just got said. We pray our way away from sin, even as we are born again and find ourselves in a (another) pickle, as it were.

As to homosexuality, it is one thing to believe yourself more masculine or feminine than the next guy or gal, but it is another to decide that this means you need to fornicate or even marry the same sex, which scripture is clear, does not line up with the Will of God. Paraphrased, scripture tell is that If your eye offends you, poke it out....your hand, cut it off.....of course we are not expected to do this, because we are expected to PREFER the Lord and all He offers us here and in the life to come with Him....and do the above....walk away from the bondage, whatever it is......

If we find that we have sexual preferences that do not line up with CREATION (God's Will) and PROCREATION (again, God's Will), then we can avoid sexual relationships, knowing we refuse God's Will in our life in that way and that eternal separation from Him is promised if we proceed with our Will over His.

These are not judgmental words, they are pragmatic and realistic.....and in speaking them, I am NOT being hateful, I am saying we have to make a choice....our way or God's....and there is some picking up our Cross, denying ourselves, and following Christ involved......
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby shorttribber on Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:11 pm

GodsStudent wrote:This writing is a perfect explanation of what "it" is.....nomatter what the sin, we can walk away from it, one day at a time, praying ceaselessly through that day and the next and the next until we are no longer in bondage by whatever the sin in question is.Perfect and to say much more would perhaps take away from what just got said. We pray our way away from sin, even as we are born again and find ourselves in a (another) pickle, as it were. As to homosexuality, it is one thing to believe yourself more masculine or feminine than the next guy or gal, but it is another to decide that this means you need to fornicate or even marry the same sex, which scripture is clear, does not line up with the Will of God. Paraphrased, scripture tell is that If your eye offends you, poke it out....your hand, cut it off.....of course we are not expected to do this, because we are expected to PREFER the Lord and all He offers us here and in the life to come with Him....and do the above....walk away from the bondage, whatever it is......If we find that we have sexual preferences that do not line up with CREATION (God's Will) and PROCREATION (again, God's Will), then we can avoid sexual relationships, knowing we refuse God's Will in our life in that way and that eternal separation from Him is promised if we proceed with our Will over His.These are not judgmental words, they are pragmatic and realistic.....and in speaking them, I am NOT being hateful, I am saying we have to make a choice....our way or God's....and there is some picking up our Cross, denying ourselves, and following Christ involved......

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Re: Homosexuality

Postby extravagantchristian on Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:02 pm

When I say that homosexuality is different than any other sin, I think what I mean to say is that it would be the hardest sin to repent from.

Imagine if you were young and had your whole life ahead of you, the idea of staying single forever would be especially hard to accept. Not just the the physical aspect but giving up the possibility of every being in love.

A person would have to have some strong faith to make that commitment. And how would they ever get a strong faith without first having a little faith?

They would need to get to know and trust God first as a sinner before they were willing to commit to the single life forever, which is something even Christians would have a hard time with.

And how can they get to know and trust him if we are brash and loveless, proclaiming that homosexuality is a sin without proclaiming that God loves sinners at the same time. How could they not feel like God is against them?

I can see how many of them would just turn away and do their own thing and it's heartbreaking.

Those who don't really care, you would care if it was your child.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby mark s on Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:19 pm

But what if homosexuality is really a lie? What if people aren't born that way? What if it's a learned behavior, and can be unlearned, and a person can return to the way God intended?

I'm seeing more and more the push to feminize men. The "Toxic Masculinity" ads. Armani's latest clothing line with lace and sheer and foofy fake furs for men? Specifically stated to be "more feminine". And more . . .

This push to make people believe, "I'm just that way, I can't help it."

I'm convinced that's a lie.

And love, in my book, is to bring people to Jesus, and to truth.

Much love!
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby shorttribber on Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:03 pm

mark s wrote:But what if homosexuality is really a lie? What if people aren't born that way? What if it's a learned behavior, and can be unlearned, and a person can return to the way God intended?

I'm seeing more and more the push to feminize men. The "Toxic Masculinity" ads. Armani's latest clothing line with lace and sheer and foofy fake furs for men? Specifically stated to be "more feminine". And more . . .

This push to make people believe, "I'm just that way, I can't help it."

I'm convinced that's a lie.

And love, in my book, is to bring people to Jesus, and to truth.

Much love!
Mark

:a3:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Abiding in His Word on Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:03 pm

mark s wrote:I'm seeing more and more the push to feminize men. The "Toxic Masculinity" ads. Armani's latest clothing line with lace and sheer and foofy fake furs for men? Specifically stated to be "more feminine". And more . . .


You may be surprised to see this early picture of Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the Smithsonian Institute with this description:

Little Franklin Delano Roosevelt sits primly on a stool, his white skirt spread smoothly over his lap, his hands clasping a hat trimmed with a marabou feather. Shoulder-length hair and patent leather party shoes complete the ensemble.

We find the look unsettling today, yet social convention of 1884, when FDR was photographed at age 2 1/2, dictated that boys wore dresses until age 6 or 7, also the time of their first haircut. Franklin’s outfit was considered gender-neutral.


and...

a June 1918 article from the trade publication Earnshaw's Infants' Department said, “The generally accepted rule is pink for the boys, and blue for the girls. The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger color, is more suitable for the boy, while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl.”


Times change; cultures differ; clothing styles change. Mannerisms/behaviors and methods of expressing affection change; i.e. 4 times Paul tells us to greet one another with a holy kiss. Today, more often, Christians shake hands or (depending on the person) a hug.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Jericho on Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:01 am

Little Franklin Delano Roosevelt sits primly on a stool, his white skirt spread smoothly over his lap, his hands clasping a hat trimmed with a marabou feather. Shoulder-length hair and patent leather party shoes complete the ensemble.


Ha, and look how FDR turned out. He was one of the most progressive presidents in U.S. history.

Times change; cultures differ; clothing styles change. Mannerisms/behaviors and methods of expressing affection change; i.e. 4 times Paul tells us to greet one another with a holy kiss. Today, more often, Christians shake hands or (depending on the person) a hug.


True, but generally these things are organic. What is happening now is not organic. It is a concerted effort by leftists to vilify masculinity as toxic. The Gillette commercial is just the latest example.

Customs and cultures differ in society. For instance, what colors mean in the the West may differ in the East. Most of the time these cultural differences are trivial. But the problem is basing morality on what is socially acceptable. In Aztec society, for example, it was perfectly normal to practice human sacrifice. They thought no more of it than breathing. But just because something is culturally acceptable does not necessarily make it morally right. And of course, as Christians we shouldn't base our morality on what is socially or culturally acceptable.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby extravagantchristian on Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:18 am

It's like an identity crisis, people don't even know what sex they are these days. Like, they may know it but they don't see themselves the way they should psychologically.

I just think we shouldn't vilify these people who are so profoundly confused.

It seems to me like the political divide in this country is spilling over into our hearts as Christians.

It's like Conservative vs. Liberal

Believers vs. Non believers

But it shouldn't be that way. They aren't the enemy.

And I understand that we have to take a stand against sin, especially in our own hearts, we constantly have to be on guard, but if sinners perceive that we are taking a stand against them (their identity/ them as a person), then our witness is useless.
Matthew 1:22
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby shorttribber on Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:18 am

Jericho wrote:Customs and cultures differ in society. For instance, what colors mean in the the West may differ in the East. Most of the time these cultural differences are trivial. But the problem is basing morality on what is socially acceptable. In Aztec society, for example, it was perfectly normal to practice human sacrifice. They thought no more of it than breathing.
But just because something is culturally acceptable does not necessarily make it morally right. And of course, as Christians we shouldn't base our morality on what is socially or culturally acceptable
.


(I enlarged the portion of the quote that I think says it all)

:a3:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:22 am

Jericho wrote: It is a concerted effort by leftists to vilify masculinity as toxic. The Gillette commercial is just the latest example.


The ads I watched vilified toxic masculinity; i.e. bullying, an attitude of superiority, demeaning behavior toward women, belief in male entitlement, overly aggressiveness, etc. That's different than vilifying (all) masculinity as toxic. One is focused on specific (toxic) behaviors and the other on those which are harmless/non-violent behaviors.

Customs and cultures differ in society. For instance, what colors mean in the the West may differ in the East. Most of the time these cultural differences are trivial. But the problem is basing morality on what is socially acceptable. In Aztec society, for example, it was perfectly normal to practice human sacrifice. They thought no more of it than breathing. But just because something is culturally acceptable does not necessarily make it morally right. And of course, as Christians we shouldn't base our morality on what is socially or culturally acceptable.


Some of the practices in the Bible are comparable in cruelty and were considered a matter of morality; i.e. stoning, death for adultery, death for blasphemy/cursing, selling one's child, crucifixion, etc. :(
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby GodsStudent on Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:06 am

extravagantchristian wrote:When I say that homosexuality is different than any other sin, I think what I mean to say is that it would be the hardest sin to repent from.

Imagine if you were young and had your whole life ahead of you, the idea of staying single forever would be especially hard to accept. Not just the the physical aspect but giving up the possibility of every being in love.

A person would have to have some strong faith to make that commitment. And how would they ever get a strong faith without first having a little faith?

They would need to get to know and trust God first as a sinner before they were willing to commit to the single life forever, which is something even Christians would have a hard time with.

And how can they get to know and trust him if we are brash and loveless, proclaiming that homosexuality is a sin without proclaiming that God loves sinners at the same time. How could they not feel like God is against them?

I can see how many of them would just turn away and do their own thing and it's heartbreaking.

Those who don't really care, you would care if it was your child.


I know for a fact, direct experience, that a person who thinks they are homosexual can in fact have a dramatic change in their thinking if they do what scripture says to do and repent, walk away, pick up their cross and follow Christ.
This "fatalistic" thinking that if they repent of their homosexuality then they are NEVER going to be able to enjoy love with a person of the opposite sex and; therefore, ENJOYABLE sexual relations with the opposite sex is absolutely that....fatalistic thinking.
True, there may be some transition time, where no physical or romantic relationships happen, in order that the Lord have time to work on them and in their heart may be required...and in today's culture, this is unacceptable to most people, because we want instant results....but, it is a fact that the Lord is able to provide us resources, via other people, talking and praying and thinking through, and changing in our minds that, after a period of time, will give us the courage and desire to try it His Way.....
I had a 3 year period in my life where just that happened with me. During those three years, it was me and the Lord and I literally had NO contact with anyone in a romantic pursuit. Also during that time, I repented of all fornication and asked the Lord to help me not fornicate. When the time was right and I was deemed ready by the Lord, He introduced me to my now husband. My now husband and I agreed, at my request, to not be physically involved until we were married, and that's just what we did.

When a person has a healthy mind, body and spirit, the Lord will introduce them to their lifelong partner who will become their spouse. It takes faith and a willingness to give it all to the Lord with no expectations and a willingness to not grieve about not having someone until the Lord deems the person ready. If you truly give it to the Lord with no expectations or anticipations, but in honesty, repent from your past and tell the Lord that at the end of His work in you, you would like to meet and have a spouse, I know from direct personal experience, you can trust the Lord to come through for you.
But, you have to be willing to honestly and truly surrender it all to the Lord first, and in the meantime, you learn to live with yourself, and to meet and know the Lord as your Savior and Redeemer. First things first......

We all consciously know that adultery, fornication, homosexuality....these are all wrong and we have to walk away from them if we want to have a saving relationship with Christ. THAT is first.....so do it.....and if you dont, then you should have fear and trembling and real questions about whether or not you truly have salvation. These aren't my assumptions. These are backed up solid as a rock in scripture......and I am not being unloving to say so....I do love any and all reading my words here....enough to care about them having the truth about salvation....true salvation.....because eternity is a lot longer than the here and now, and we can all go without for a period while we get right with the Lord....one on one.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Jericho on Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:10 am

Abiding in His Word wrote:The ads I watched vilified toxic masculinity; i.e. bullying, an attitude of superiority, demeaning behavior toward women, belief in male entitlement, overly aggressiveness, etc. That's different than vilifying (all) masculinity as toxic. One is focused on specific (toxic) behaviors and the other on those which are harmless/non-violent behaviors.


Everyone knows that bullying, being overly aggressive, etc. is bad. We don't need anyone to tell us something we already know. They are not making the same distinctions you do. To them all traditional masculinity is toxic, unless it is feminized. And if the focus is on toxic behaviors, then why don't we see ads against toxic femininity?

In truth, "toxic masculinity" doesn't exist. It's another manufactured concept like "sexual orientation" and "homophobia" that is intended to create a new narrative.


Abiding in His Word wrote:Some of the practices in the Bible are comparable in cruelty and were considered a matter of morality; i.e. stoning, death for adultery, death for blasphemy/cursing, selling one's child, crucifixion, etc.


I think we can omit selling one's child and crucifixion because they are not a part of Levitical Law (that I can recall). It's true that those penalties were harsh compared to our modern standards, but then again the ancient world was a harsh place. I think we have to keep in mind they lived at a time when there were no jails or police around to discourage improper behavior. They had to have harsh laws to dissuade behavior they deemed detrimental to their society, laws to which they themselves willingly agreed to follow (Exo 24:7). Their laws were meant to punish and dissuade bad behavior, in that respect they were no different from our laws today. We also have laws for the death penalty to discourage and punish bad behavior, we just do it in a more humane way.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby extravagantchristian on Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:24 am

I see what you mean GS, and I don't deny that God has the power to give us "the gift of singleness". But even the scriptures say that not everyone can embrace that lifestyle, long term.

And I know that God can do a miracle and turn a gay person straight, but there's no guarantee that he's going to do that for everyone. I'm just looking at this from the perspective of a lost person who has no history with God, no relationship, no faith, starting off at square one. I can see how the entire subject would be incredibly discouraging and unattainable.

I once seen a teenage boy on the Ellen show who said he desperately wanted to be straight, and prayed every night for God to make him straight. People like that don't choose to be gay. Maybe some people choose it but not everyone is does.

And I see a lot of straight people on this website claiming to have it all figured out but you don't know what it's like to be in their shoes, you've never been gay and faithless.

I don't see how any homosexual person could ever be totally restored and saved without a mature godly mentor ministering to them over a period of time and most people just don't have that. Yet we make it sound so simple so cut and dry that they can just change these deep psychological issues if they want to. I just think it's ignorant for us to assume that.

But I don't mean any offence to you guys because I used to think that way too, up until a few months ago.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby GodsStudent on Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:35 am

EC,

I think it is very dangerous to say things like
And I know that God can do a miracle and turn a gay person straight, but there's no guarantee that he's going to do that for everyone.


The fact is, we have to love our Creator first, and He is absolutely capable of changing our hearts and minds when our reason for asking Him to is that while we feel a certain way, and absolutely believe we do, we are afraid of eternal separation from Him.

Its no miracle....its the absolute power of God to transform US.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby GodsStudent on Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:42 am

Romans 12

1Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby GodsStudent on Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:45 am

There is nothing else I can tell you.
I have tried in every way to tell you that the Lord IS capable ....100% and 100% of the time....
but emotions for your child are giving way to reason, in my opinion.

I have lived transformation.....literally and as the Lord for my witness, I would not tell you a lie.
I KNOW what I speak of because it is so close and personal to me that it actually IS me I speak of.

STOP thinking I am hateful or any of us is hateful and start believing the Lord can, will, and does when we seek Him for it.

Fatalistic thinking will be the cause of many years of pain if we cannot learn this.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby extravagantchristian on Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:50 am

Ok GS, thank you for clarifying that. It's encouraging to hear your testimony that God is able to correct those feelings. We don't hear enough of that these days. I would love to think that the Holy Spirit is willing to do that for everyone, and not just a case by case miracle.

It sounds similar to what I went through when I first got saved at age 21. I was addicted to alcohol and I had to fight hard at first to stay away from it. It truly seemed like an uphill battle but eventually over time God took away that desire. It was not easy. You really have to be determined to begin with.

But my relationship with God started way before then when I was a child. I wasnt raised in a religious home and someone once told me that God promised to forgive all our sins if we confess them. I held onto that promise and grew stronger in faith over the years, even while I was living in sin.

I'm thankful that god is willing to start a relationship with us and let us experience his great love WHILE we are still sinners and before we are willing to repent. Just through faith alone.

I think that's where homosexuals have to start, and we need to be clear that God loves them just how they are.

Thanks again for sharing that. Its great to hear a positive outcome. God brought you through that for a reason, to inspire others, Lord knows we need that.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Jericho on Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:01 pm

I once seen a teenage boy on the Ellen show who said he desperately wanted to be straight, and prayed every night for God to make him straight. People like that don't choose to be gay. Maybe some people choose it but not everyone is does.

And I see a lot of straight people on this website claiming to have it all figured out but you don't know what it's like to be in their shoes, you've never been gay and faithless.


EC, I think everyone may be disposed to a particular sin they struggle with more than any other sin, we all have a sin nature after all. For some people it might be drugs or alcohol. For another it might be being promiscuous. They may really want to change but struggle to do so. For him it is same sex attraction. But, I don't think those who struggle with same sex attraction or any different from those who struggle from various other sins daily.

Forget why it happens for a moment, I think one of the worst things to do is to open the door to sin because once that happens it becomes a lot harder to stop. Someone who has same sex attraction is one thing, but someone who acts on it is another and then that behavior becomes cemented and a lot harder to change. But that still doesn't make it impossible to change. I know for a fact there are gay people who have become straight, and straight people who have "chosen" to become gay. Behaviors are not set in stone.

In the end we are dealing with feelings. A person feelings this way or that. But morality can't be based on how a person feels. If that were the case nothing would be wrong. And feelings are fickle, they can change with the wind. Thoughts and feelings are interconnected, so if a person feels a certain way about something then you have to look at their thought patterns. Once you dig a little deep I suspect you will find a reason why they struggle with certain things. If you look at people who are morbidly overweight and struggle with food you will find most of it stems from something in their childhood. They use food as a comfort to deal with pains in their life. Could it be a persons childhood also later affects their sexuality?
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby GodsStudent on Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:05 pm

I'm thankful that god is willing to start a relationship with us and let us experience his great love WHILE we are still sinners and before we are willing to repent. Just through faith alone.

I think that's where homosexuals have to start, and we need to be clear that God loves them just how they are.


I understand the plight of those that have never been witnessed to....but here in the USA, it's a rare thing for anyone to not have heard about the Lord. I dont think that we Christians behave as badly as we worry that we do, meaning if someone came into a church as a homosexual, I don't think we throw our bibles at them....certainly I dont. I am a compassionate caring human being who listens and judges and can carefully know when and how to speak to someone...... I think most of us are.

Having grown up in a church and then rebelling....for me at this time in my life, it came down to me knowing that I could not have my cake and eat it too, and I developed a longing to be a part of the church and my relationship with the Lord again. I had to choose...the Lord MADE ME choose....(I suspect if I chose wrong it would have been the reprobate mind thing, but in my case, it wasn't, because ultimately, I desired to go back to the Lord and I traveled the long road).
I started one day at a time, with first, just the desire to be with the Lord and love the Lord.....

I can absolutely say that by the time I met my husband, I was fully able to respond to him with all love and no regrets. I was transformed and anyone else will be too if their heart is for the Lord.....

For those unsaved, God is merciful and loving and gives all of us time to understand things.....and in that case, it's between Him and the new believer......
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Jay Ross on Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:40 pm

GS, I give thanks that the Lord never gave up on drawing you to Himself and that as you look back at your life story, you can see the journey that you took with Him caring for you all of the time to lead you deeper into a Loving relationship with Him.

I am seeing in your posts a strength in your relationship with God that was not as obvious a number of years ago and what I am seeing is the difference that has been learned over those years of being on this forum now being shared with others.

This observation of you does not mean that you will have an easier life without trails and tribulations occurring, but your ability to share your warts and all is a powerful ministry that will help many to come into an honest relationship with God and His Son.

I can thank the Lord with great joy, that He has patiently not forgotten who you are and how special you are to Him in His drawing of you to himself.

May you continue to grow in your dependency on Him in all things.

Now when do you want the coffee delivered and will it be white with two sugars. :mrgreen:

Shalom
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby mark s on Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:58 am

Abiding in His Word wrote:Times change; cultures differ; clothing styles change. Mannerisms/behaviors and methods of expressing affection change; i.e. 4 times Paul tells us to greet one another with a holy kiss. Today, more often, Christians shake hands or (depending on the person) a hug.


Hi Abiding,

That's all very true. Cultures change. There are still numerous cultures today that wear little to no clothing at all.

The Bible puts it in terms of men not wearing "that which pertains to the woman", and vice versa. When Ben Franklin wears lace, that's fine, but when Armani says, Let's put Ben Franklin in lace to make him look more like a girl, that's something else.

The pink and blue thing is interesting, I didn't know it was reversec 100 years ago.

But again, now, we'd say, blue is the boy color and pink is the girl color, so let's put all the boys in pink, so everyone is dressed like girls.

That's more what I'm seeing.

Much love!
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Abiding in His Word on Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:36 am

mark s wrote:The Bible puts it in terms of men not wearing "that which pertains to the woman", and vice versa.


Mark, In my recollection, years ago that Bible passage was used to forbid women to wear pants/slacks. For awhile, they circumvented that by only buying slacks with a side zipper as opposed to a man's front zipper. How silly! Today that might be considered a "unisex" fashion and some pastor like Anderson might prepare a sermon on women wearing pants....if he hasn't already! Thank goodness, eventually people realized that whether or not we wear a toga as in early Christianity, or a pair of pants with a zipper or an elastic waistband, when it is donned by a male or female, it is merely a matter of taste/comfort....not sin.

The Bible speaks of both men and women wearing jewelry including earrings and men even carried a bag that today might resemble a purse. Men didn't frequent a local barber shop like men today, so their hair was normally long and might even signify one who had made a nazarite vow.

When Ben Franklin wears lace, that's fine, but when Armani says, Let's put Ben Franklin in lace to make him look more like a girl, that's something else.


If that's the motive, I agree with you. If you know of such a motive, I'd be interested in reading/seeing where it is reported. And can we actually control what Armani dictates is fashionable this year? Or do we care what he says?

The pink and blue thing is interesting, I didn't know it was reversec 100 years ago.

But again, now, we'd say, blue is the boy color and pink is the girl color, so let's put all the boys in pink, so everyone is dressed like girls.


Blue happens to be my favorite color and I have lots of that color clothing. Am I trying to look like a boy?

That's more what I'm seeing.


Again, I'd be interested in reading about such an effort. I think fashion is up to the individual and we really shouldn't try to read any political or religious motives behind their choice. My opinion only....
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby mark s on Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:20 pm

Abiding in His Word wrote:
mark s wrote:The Bible puts it in terms of men not wearing "that which pertains to the woman", and vice versa.


Mark, In my recollection, that Bible passage was used to forbid women to wear pants/slacks.


Hi Abiding,

While it may be used in any number of ways, I believe the point of the passage is that God is telling us as men to not try to be like women by wearing those things that are considered in our times and culture as womanly, and vice versa.

And we can debate whether that is what God is telling us, however, that's my understanding.

For a male cross-dresser, if women are wearing pants and men are wearing skirts, he will then want to wear pants, because that will make him feel more feminine, or whatever the particular is that he does it for. It's what he associates with the feminine, whatever that may be.

As far as dictating culture, no, of course we don't, and it doesn't really have to mean anything to us. The world does what it does. I mention it because there seems to be a quickly moving push in that direction, noticeable not only to me but to quite a number of people, judging by the news articles I've been reading.

Anyway, hopefully this will help to clarify my train of thought.

Much love!
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby extravagantchristian on Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:59 pm

I don't know but my daughter watches anime, which is asain animation, and alot of times you cannot tell the girls apart from the guys. I can't even begin to describe how evil some of those shows are. Lots of murder, homosexuality, rape, etc... There's also decent shows too, pokemon for example, it's just a wide variety. (I make sure she doesn't watch the bad stuff) Anyways, some of those shows that come from overseas, it's like there are no male or females just people that are gender neutral having sex with everybody and everything. It's sad to see a society embrace that type of thinking.

I think we can all agree that God intends for males to remain masculine and women feminine, in a common sense way. Not legalistic about beards and pants.

Alot of anime comes from Japan, I just seen this article today about their high suicide rate. Just showes how Godless their society is. And we aren't to far behind.

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2019/ ... 6445306667
Matthew 1:22
So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophets
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