Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

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Re: Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

Postby GodsStudent on Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:27 am

Hi Shorttribber: I read a great bit of the article at the link you provided, and I am NOT willing to debate scriptures on this, because I don''t do well with that.....I'm rather plain spoken and while I love the Lord, and I try my best to understand in areas where there is disagreement, I prefer not to speak as a teacher, as I just don't have "that" skill set....

What came to mind as I read what he wrote is that I don't think he recognizes the position those who call themselves Jewish are in, during the end times. What he spoke of, to me, seemed to refer to those of us who are born again IN CHRIST and he seems to just ignore that there are faithful believers in the Jewish faith that rejected Christ, BUT that according to the scriptures, GOD HAS NOT REJECTED THEM, but it is by and through this end time series of events that these particular Jews come to realise the error made by their ancestors in NOT accepting Christ when He came the first time...Its like everything this writer wrote, he wrote about and for the benefit of the believer in Christ...the gentile.

I almost hate that I expressed my concerns, but like SO MANY who gather together to discuss end time scriptures, I still see the text calling for them to do exactly what they are doing.....they actually have all these extremely faithful Jewish believers organizations who have these things built and ready to go...along with looking for a perfect red heifer and gathering all other things that are required for the sacrifices to resume and so forth, which is NOT acceptable for the believer in Christ, but which is a perfect demonstration of faithfulness within the Jewish faith, which is stuck in the old testament, as it were.

Even right down to the antichrist is going to show up in the temple of God professing himself to be God.....I think there is discord among believers, because some believe it will be this Jewish temple that has been built, and some believe the human body is the temple of God and the antichrist will enter into a man's body (which scripture teaches he will), and that's all this scripture is talking about....him standing in a man's body, which is the temple of God.
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Re: Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

Postby shorttribber on Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:23 pm

GodsStudent wrote:Hi Shorttribber: I read a great bit of the article at the link you provided, and I am NOT willing to debate scriptures on this, because I don''t do well with that.....I'm rather plain spoken and while I love the Lord, and I try my best to understand in areas where there is disagreement, I prefer not to speak as a teacher, as I just don't have "that" skill set....

What came to mind as I read what he wrote is that I don't think he recognizes the position those who call themselves Jewish are in, during the end times. What he spoke of, to me, seemed to refer to those of us who are born again IN CHRIST and he seems to just ignore that there are faithful believers in the Jewish faith that rejected Christ, BUT that according to the scriptures, GOD HAS NOT REJECTED THEM, but it is by and through this end time series of events that these particular Jews come to realise the error made by their ancestors in NOT accepting Christ when He came the first time...Its like everything this writer wrote, he wrote about and for the benefit of the believer in Christ...the gentile.

I almost hate that I expressed my concerns, but like SO MANY who gather together to discuss end time scriptures, I still see the text calling for them to do exactly what they are doing.....they actually have all these extremely faithful Jewish believers organizations who have these things built and ready to go...along with looking for a perfect red heifer and gathering all other things that are required for the sacrifices to resume and so forth, which is NOT acceptable for the believer in Christ, but which is a perfect demonstration of faithfulness within the Jewish faith, which is stuck in the old testament, as it were.

Even right down to the antichrist is going to show up in the temple of God professing himself to be God.....I think there is discord among believers, because some believe it will be this Jewish temple that has been built, and some believe the human body is the temple of God and the antichrist will enter into a man's body (which scripture teaches he will), and that's all this scripture is talking about....him standing in a man's body, which is the temple of God.

I completely understand your post....and it makes perfect sense, as to what you are saying GS.

All I'm trying to do is keep people aware of the very real possibility that this "deal" "seven year trib" "the whole modern dispensationalist view" Christian Modern perspective could be really in for a lot of Chaos and Confusion.

I'm just trying to offer an answer to that confusion...IF things do occur the way I'm suggesting it could...and very well could.

There is an answer to the possible mess and confusion that is probably coming.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

Postby GodsStudent on Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:11 pm

Hi shorttribber: You know what? I think its a good idea that you do that.......because I have always been of the mindset that as believers, we should all be open to misinterpretation.....this is exactly why I try to be familiar with other perspectives about various things.....where the a/c hails from.....pre/mid/postwrath/posttrib viewpoints....and it doesnt stop there, as there are all sorts of varied viewpoints and interpretations of lots of scripture.
I get it.

I saw the "persecution" scriptures posted elsewhere and wondered if that "really" included believers to other believers having different viewpoints....as in, is it really persecution if one believer disagrees with another on what scriptures are saying and interpretations diverge? I thought I saw that happening all over the board, especially in debate areas, and have seen it for a long time.....and never thought to consider it implied that one was persecuting another.....I sure hope not to be persecuting another if I simply have a very different perspective.

I guess I will have a hard time with it IF our President is the guy who presents the peace deal that turns him into the antichrist, because as a person who has to occupy until Christ returns, I SINCERELY have appreciated the fact that this president has put us in a much better place for the here and now. I started watching prophecy in 2008, and at the time, I thought we were out of here any day now....all these years later, and I am still watching, and honestly, while things are moving in the direction of fulfillment, I know it all isn't done and we could be here a while. If that's the case, I sure would like to be able to put food on the table...and so, a nationalist, I am....too....as is this President. I do see the glaring flaws, but again, we had to choose between him and Hillary, and I am pleased at what he's accomplished as our President and he's not a personal friend, so it isn't about the company I keep....

That said, I trust our Father to keep me from harming myself by failing to be able to see the signs of the times at the times it's important.....He completes a good work.....and I know He has been working on and with me for a good long time.....patiently, I must say.
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Re: Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

Postby shorttribber on Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:08 pm

GodsStudent wrote:Hi shorttribber: You know what? I think its a good idea that you do that.......because I have always been of the mindset that as believers, we should all be open to misinterpretation.....this is exactly why I try to be familiar with other perspectives about various things.....where the a/c hails from.....pre/mid/postwrath/posttrib viewpoints....and it doesnt stop there, as there are all sorts of varied viewpoints and interpretations of lots of scripture.
I get it.

I saw the "persecution" scriptures posted elsewhere and wondered if that "really" included believers to other believers having different viewpoints....as in, is it really persecution if one believer disagrees with another on what scriptures are saying and interpretations diverge? I thought I saw that happening all over the board, especially in debate areas, and have seen it for a long time.....and never thought to consider it implied that one was persecuting another.....I sure hope not to be persecuting another if I simply have a very different perspective.

I guess I will have a hard time with it IF our President is the guy who presents the peace deal that turns him into the antichrist, because as a person who has to occupy until Christ returns, I SINCERELY have appreciated the fact that this president has put us in a much better place for the here and now. I started watching prophecy in 2008, and at the time, I thought we were out of here any day now....all these years later, and I am still watching, and honestly, while things are moving in the direction of fulfillment, I know it all isn't done and we could be here a while. If that's the case, I sure would like to be able to put food on the table...and so, a nationalist, I am....too....as is this President. I do see the glaring flaws, but again, we had to choose between him and Hillary, and I am pleased at what he's accomplished as our President and he's not a personal friend, so it isn't about the company I keep....

That said, I trust our Father to keep me from harming myself by failing to be able to see the signs of the times at the times it's important.....He completes a good work.....and I know He has been working on and with me for a good long time.....patiently, I must say.


Super excellent post GS.

I do understand also the persecution thinking of believer to believer...that should not be, period.
We should be able to present differing opinions simply because we care for each other, and are concerned enough about the truth that we in earnest try our best to share it.

There is a scripture in particular than concerns me the most regarding that topic, and it is....
Math 24
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants,
and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This Will happen, because it has been said by Christ Himself......and it is alarming to me.
I think of this passage with regard to the masses who are expecting a Very Common Thing to happen, and it doesn't...see my point?

Your post again is very good indeed...and never should we ever smite with the word of God the servants who share the same goal...and that is, to Love the Truth, and to humbly and lovely try our best to share it.

:hugs:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

Postby GodsStudent on Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:25 pm

Actually, I do see what you are saying....and I don't feel that I have smited anyone, and if you do, ....hmmm.....what are we to do? There is a scripture for that, too, right?


So, I prayed about this and had a rather difficult night of sleep, because of it. I dont feel I am guilty as charged, exactly, but do feel I am caught up in something I have no desire to be caught up in, simply because I have a very different take on what is and isn't happening here.

The result is that I have decided not to say another word on this.....I have no idea whether EC and you believe scripture to be saying the same thing, or whether the position of each is convenient for the disposition of both, but in either case, I will step away from trying to make any points that interfere. We all have stated that we want to be sure our posts demonstrate what we believe scripture to be saying. What I think scripture says about a rebuilt temple, etc. is divergent from your understanding, ST, but I am open to try and understand what you believe scripture means with regards to a 3.5 instead of 7, and not calling for rebuilt temple, etc. I am not sure ECs scriptural understanding is the same, but I see she is driven on this topic, which I find interesting, because there have been times when I have felt strongly led, and for that alone, I think it's important for me to step aside and let it play out. May the Lord lead the way.....not any man or woman.
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Re: Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

Postby shorttribber on Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:35 pm

GodsStudent wrote:Actually, I do see what you are saying....and I don't feel that I have smited anyone, and if you do, ....hmmm.....what are we to do? There is a scripture for that, too, right?


I can't say that you ever have....I haven't seen it in this forum...seems to me you have been especially careful.
I try my best also to be very careful about that.
EC is also being very careful in that regard too, and I do very much appreciate the things he or she (I guess I should know that by now) :mrgreen: is warning about this peace plan.

We all need to pay very close attention to it, for many reasons, just as we have been discussing.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

Postby 1whowaits on Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:42 pm

ST, regarding sacrifices, the Temple described in Ezekiel has both pre-millenial aspects, before Jesus returns, and millenial aspects which occur during the reign of Christ on earth. Ezk 47 states that there will be a river that flows from the temple which becomes very large and 'fruit trees of all kinds will grow on the banks of the river. Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruit fail. Every month they will bear because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing.' This would appear to be something that would occur after Christ's return during the milleinum.

And yet Ezek 45 states 'the prince is to provide a bull as a sin offering for himself and for all the people of the land'. If this occurred during the millenium, Jesus would be the prince and would have to offer a sin offering for Himself. So this Temple would also refer to a time prior to Jesus' return.

Ezekiel was written during the Babylonian captivity, so the fulfillment of the passage could have occurred anytime after that, including the time prior to Jesus' first coming. Prior to Jesus' first coming the offering of sacrifices by the prince for sin would have been valid. Had Israel repented and returned as a nation to God, it may be possible that God would have allowed Ezek 40 to be fulfilled.
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Re: Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

Postby GodsStudent on Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:06 pm

post deleted to keep with prior promise not to say another word.
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Re: Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

Postby shorttribber on Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:06 pm

1whowaits wrote:ST, regarding sacrifices, the Temple described in Ezekiel has both pre-millenial aspects, before Jesus returns, and millenial aspects which occur during the reign of Christ on earth. Ezk 47 states that there will be a river that flows from the temple which becomes very large and 'fruit trees of all kinds will grow on the banks of the river. Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruit fail. Every month they will bear because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing.' This would appear to be something that would occur after Christ's return during the milleinum.

And yet Ezek 45 states 'the prince is to provide a bull as a sin offering for himself and for all the people of the land'. If this occurred during the millenium, Jesus would be the prince and would have to offer a sin offering for Himself. So this Temple would also refer to a time prior to Jesus' return.

Ezekiel was written during the Babylonian captivity, so the fulfillment of the passage could have occurred anytime after that, including the time prior to Jesus' first coming. Prior to Jesus' first coming the offering of sacrifices by the prince for sin would have been valid. Had Israel repented and returned as a nation to God, it may be possible that God would have allowed Ezek 40 to be fulfilled.


I do understand your perspective also on this...now we wait and see with great expectation.....Glory to God, He will reveal everything we need to know about all these things very soon I think :clock:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

Postby extravagantchristian on Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:18 pm

US Peace Plan Will Divide Jerusalem


https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conf ... ter-582618

1 month away from elections.

Joel 3:2 I will also gather all nations, And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; And I will enter into judgment with them there On account of My people, My heritage Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; They have also divided up My land.
Matthew 1:22
So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophets
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Re: Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

Postby Jay Ross on Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:37 pm

extravagantchristian wrote:
US Peace Plan Will Divide Jerusalem


https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conf ... ter-582618

1 month away from elections.

Joel 3:2 I will also gather all nations, And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; And I will enter into judgment with them there On account of My people, My heritage Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; They have also divided up My land.


But Jerusalem was divide after WW1 into 3 partitions as prophesied in Rev 16:17-21
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Re: Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

Postby extravagantchristian on Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:27 am

No Jay Ross, the 7th bowl of God's wrath has not been poured out yet.

That happens at the end of the tribulation period.

If that were the case, 1/3 of the Earth would have been burned up...1/4 of the people would have been killed... 1/3 of waters turned to blood, mark of the beast, etc.
Matthew 1:22
So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophets
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Re: Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

Postby extravagantchristian on Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:12 am

1ww, I think that the Temple God desires to be built in Jerusalem is different than the one that will actually be built. Because it's builders have rejected his Son.

Matthew 21:42
Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone.


The coming Temple will be doomed from it's conception. And at no point will God ever be pleased with it.

I know that God will fight for his people and will not forsake them, but I just don't want to see anybody praising Trump or Kushner if they play a hand in the Temple plans.

They (Christians) praised him for moving the embassy to Jerusalem and completely overlooked the fact that he said it was "Israel's turn to give big". He admitted that the only reason he moved the embassy is to get a peace deal. Everybody seems to look the other way. :dunno:. I'm not bitter towards those who trust him, I just wonder, how is he getting away with all this?

So far I haven't heard one American law maker or Christian leader speak out about his plan. And the reports have been in the news.

Maybe this peace deal will never come to pass, maybe Israel will reject it. But if they do, will there be a consequence? Do we trust Trump to continue to defend Israel against the armies that currently surround them if they go against his plan?
Matthew 1:22
So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophets
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Re: Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

Postby Jay Ross on Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:52 pm

extravagantchristian wrote:No Jay Ross, the 7th bowl of God's wrath has not been poured out yet.

That happens at the end of the tribulation period.

If that were the case, 1/3 of the Earth would have been burned up...1/4 of the people would have been killed... 1/3 of waters turned to blood, mark of the beast, etc.


EC, if we accept that the bowl judgements are recorded in the order of them occurring I would agree with you, but the bowl judgements are recorded in the reverse order. The first bowl judgement is for the people who have received the mark for worshipping the beast.

Revelation 16:2: - First Bowl: Loathsome Sores

2 So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.


When will the beast appear to be worshipped? After if rises up out of the Bottomless Pit per Rev 17:8.

When does this happen? After the Bottomless pit is unlocked.

If the Bowl judgements are written in the order that they will occur, then all of the Bowl judgements will occur after the Bottomless Pit is unlocked.

Each of the bowl judgements begins with the Greek word Καὶ which is usually translated in English as "and", which infers a list of the bowl judgements and not the order of the bowl judgements.

If you look at the seventh bowl judgment then we know the following: -

Revelation 16:17-21: - Seventh Bowl: The Earth Utterly Shaken

17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying,"It is done!" 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was great turmoil, such a mighty and great turmoil as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.


What we know happens during the seventh bowl judgements are these things: -

    1. Now the great city was divided into three parts - 1948
    2. and the cities of the nations fell - during WW1
    3. Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath - 1926
    4. every island fled away,
    5. the mountains were not found.
    6. great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent - since WW1
    7. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great - Since WW1

And we know that 1, 2, 3, 6 and 7 have happened since the beginning of WW1. As for items 4 and 5, in the above list, I am not sure of how to understand what is being prophesied with these two items. However, since we can see the fulfilment of the items 1, 2, 3, 6 and 7, since WW1 up to the present time, it is still a safe assumption that the seventh bowl judgement has been fulfilled since WW1 even though we do not understand what two of the seven listed events mean.

But you are welcome to have a very different understanding to mine. Each person must search the scriptures for themselves to arrive at an understanding of how the end times will unfold and when the end times can be perceived to have started. The sixth bowl can be perceived to have started after the scattering of the people from Jerusalem in 70 AD. But to come to that conclusion requires an understanding that the sixth bowl judgement is still unfolding during this present time.

Shalom
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Re: Trump's Mid East Peace Plan

Postby extravagantchristian on Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:24 am

Kushner: Plan will be revealed in June.

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/israel/2019 ... er-ramadan
Matthew 1:22
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