WATCH NOW

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WATCH NOW

Postby El Gallo on Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:00 pm

Today the Saudi King announced he is abdicating: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... n-son.html


Prince Mohammed has been moving fast:

http://www.alt-market.com/articles/3316 ... rder-reset

All the churn in the ME started under the untouchable Obama and Clintons seems to be coming together. What does it mean? I think it means we need to pay close attention.
What I say to you I say to everyone: Watch MK 13:37
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby GodsStudent on Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:46 am

The above is coupled with these. The first link below (a lottery nobody wants to win) is a MUST READ for everyone here. The second is a discussion that provides additional resources.
Bottom line, all is not well in the financial world, and we need to be paying attention, just like El Gallo said.
All of these headlines and conversations are on the backs of each other, and fit together like a puzzle.

https://americanconsequences.com/a-lott ... ts-to-win/


http://investorhour.libsyn.com/24-jim-r ... ee-bitcoin
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby brett on Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:26 pm

El Gallo wrote:Today the Saudi King announced he is abdicating: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... n-son.html


Prince Mohammed has been moving fast:

http://www.alt-market.com/articles/3316 ... rder-reset

All the churn in the ME started under the untouchable Obama and Clintons seems to be coming together. What does it mean? I think it means we need to pay close attention.



This is one post I did take more notice of recently. I read the article and it got me thinking late into the night.

Certainly something significant is going on here, so thanks for posting.

The title "King of the South" comes to mind.......I'll need to read Daniel more..

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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Douggg on Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:14 pm

brett wrote:
El Gallo wrote:Today the Saudi King announced he is abdicating: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... n-son.html


Prince Mohammed has been moving fast:

http://www.alt-market.com/articles/3316 ... rder-reset

All the churn in the ME started under the untouchable Obama and Clintons seems to be coming together. What does it mean? I think it means we need to pay close attention.



This is one post I did take more notice of recently. I read the article and it got me thinking late into the night.

Certainly something significant is going on here, so thanks for posting.

The title "King of the South" comes to mind.......I'll need to read Daniel more..

.

I don't think so brett.

Here's what I am thinking....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxa97BeRsfs

Are we seeing the setting up of Dedan (Saudi Arabia) for saying to Gog's army when it invades Israel have you come to take a spoil. Which it appears that the spoil may not be taking something in Israel, but to Dedan's concern of herself.

Ezekiel 38:13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil.

The merchants of Tarshish is generally thought to be the west.

Saudi's latest political moves are tying it closer to the United States (according to the video) which, with other western nations, buy Saudi oil. The oil would be the spoil, the Saudi's and the west would be concerned about, when Gog comprised of the other muslim nations invade Israel, of maybe taking the oil from the Saudi's as well.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby brett on Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:22 am

Douggg wrote:I don't think so brett.

Here's what I am thinking....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxa97BeRsfs

Are we seeing the setting up of Dedan (Saudi Arabia) for saying to Gog's army when it invades Israel have you come to take a spoil. Which it appears that the spoil may not be taking something in Israel, but to Dedan's concern of herself.

Ezekiel 38:13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil.

The merchants of Tarshish is generally thought to be the west.

Saudi's latest political moves are tying it closer to the United States (according to the video) which, with other western nations, buy Saudi oil. The oil would be the spoil, the Saudi's and the west would be concerned about, when Gog comprised of the other muslim nations invade Israel, of maybe taking the oil from the Saudi's as well.


Before I get into my response I would just like to say I am calm and in a good mood, no nastiness in this post. Just saying this to avoid any possible misunderstandings.

I have honestly looked into the Ezekiel 38-39 event in great detail and did a lot of research into it a year or 2 ago. It became very obvious to me that this Ezekiel 38-39 event does not happen prior to the return of Christ, or the rapture. Instead it comes at the end of the millennial reign of Christ - so its at least 1000+ years away. I have also had this confirmed many times over since by other Pastors, other things I've looked into. The Ezekiel 38-39 scripture describes a different Israel to the one we see today. Just read it again and look at modern day Israel and you will see that the description does not match. The Israel being talked about in Ezekeil 38,39 is the one that Jesus Christ will be ruling over in the millennium, that's why it dwells securely without walls and without threat. You will also notice that the book of Revelation clearly describes the Ezekiel 38,39 event too :


Rev 20
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


This is one reason why I still hang around these boards because I believe I can help others with such bible prophecy matters. I pray I am able to bless you with this new understanding of Ezekiel 38,39....

God Bless you Douggg.

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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby GodsStudent on Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:57 am

Hi Brett:

Actually, what you say makes sense to me given the entire planet right now. At this time, and knowing we're in the end time, I look at what scripture says, and it's hard to make certain things "fit"....as in I know who the identity of Gog and Magog is, and yet, they don't seem to have the appropriate agenda at this time to "fit" with the scriptures I am expecting to see fulfilled in near future.

It would be a tall order if you didn't write anything down, and so I'm not asking that, but IF you wrote things down and it wouldn't be SO cumbersome to point out other things you noted during your study, I, for one, would be very interested in seeing what you came up with. I say that because just the few scriptures you posted here do make sense with what you're saying.

I have always followed along, it seems, with some of the "traditional" interpretations, as many of us do here on this board. Then, through my own studies, or someone bringing up "arguments" such as the one you've brought here, I begin to move away from what I think I know and refer back to scripture to revisit and revise my understanding.

Scripture is so complex, yet it's not. It simply requires that we invest lots of time and thought and not try to make face value with a verse here or there. The longer I am a part of a serious group of watchers, the more this point drives itself home. There have been times in this group when I have learned simply by putting various verses from various chapters with others....which means you have to have a good basic knowledge and memory of the various books and chapters in order to be in the meat, and capable of following along.

I need to make more time to seriously get into the Word. I am guilty of allowing myself to be diverted from my studies with the cares of this world.

Thanks for sharing your impressions of Ez. 38/39......I am inspired to look at it more to see what conclusions I may gather.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Douggg on Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:24 am

Brett, in Ezekiel 39, there is a clean up of the land following Gog's attack. In Revelation 20, after the destruction of the attack the camp of the saints - heaven and earth flees away. So I don't see how Ezekiel 39 corresponds to Revelation 20.

In Ezekiel 39, there are 7 years following Gog's destruction - of not having to use wood for fires. Those 7 years, imo, are the same 7 years of Daniel 9:27, which are based on the 7 years in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Ezekiel 39:16 concludes the cleanup of the Gog's army destruction.

In Ezekiel 39:17-20 is new feast on the dead, 7 years after Gog/Magog. The Ezekiel 39:17-20 feast is the Armageddon feast in Revelation 19:17-18.

Ezekiel 39:21 is the Lord Jesus having returned to earth, having just destroyed the heathen armies gathered to make war on Him.

Ezekiel 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

Psalms 2: 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby brett on Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:37 pm

Douggg wrote:Brett, in Ezekiel 39, there is a clean up of the land following Gog's attack. In Revelation 20, after the destruction of the attack the camp of the saints - heaven and earth flees away. So I don't see how Ezekiel 39 corresponds to Revelation 20.

In Ezekiel 39, there are 7 years following Gog's destruction - of not having to use wood for fires. Those 7 years, imo, are the same 7 years of Daniel 9:27, which are based on the 7 years in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Ezekiel 39:16 concludes the cleanup of the Gog's army destruction.

In Ezekiel 39:17-20 is new feast on the dead, 7 years after Gog/Magog. The Ezekiel 39:17-20 feast is the Armageddon feast in Revelation 19:17-18.

Ezekiel 39:21 is the Lord Jesus having returned to earth, having just destroyed the heathen armies gathered to make war on Him.

Ezekiel 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

Psalms 2: 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.


Its early morning for me right now (Australia), I am about to head off to work so my time to post is limited. For now I'll just give you video links to answer all your questions, I hope you have time to watch them. I will hopefully be able to come back later today and give a better response.

The Timing of the Gog Magog War
https://youtu.be/WCHQMS32A2A

"Gog and Magog" (Ezekiel 38-39)
https://youtu.be/J1sH6hFWPrU

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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Jay Ross on Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:14 pm

Brett,

I agree with your understanding that Ezekiel 38-39 concurring at the end of the Millennium Age.

Ezekiel 28-39 is describing what is recorded in Rev 19:11-21 and Rev 20:7-10, where both Rev 19 and 20 are describing the same events of Christ overcoming the Beast and the false prophet followed by the defeat of Satan and the dispatching of them all into the Lake of Fire. As such, Revelation 20:7-10 immediately follows Revelation 19:11-21 in that both of these chapters occur at the end of the Millennium Age.

The argument used against this understanding is that Rev 19 and 20 is sequential whereas I would argue that both chapters happen in parallel with Rev 19:1 and 20:1 both record what happens at the beginning of the Millennium Age, with Rev19:1-10 describing Christ receiving dominion over the peoples of the earth at the beginning of the Millennium Age and Rev20:1-3a describes Satan being uncastrated in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years and the establishment of a kingdom of priests in Heaven for the 1,000 years while Satan is locked up in the bottomless pit which is a continuation of Revelation 19:1-10.

The scorpions, Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet are able to rise up out of the earth, i.e. out of the Bottomless Pit, after their imprisonment in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years is over and are very active for a "little while", while Satan attempts to establish himself, as a deity and a King over all of the people on the earth at this time before he is defeated by Christ and thrown into the Lake of Fire at the end of the Millennium Age.

After Satan and his army is defeated along with the beast and the False prophet, i.e. the little horn, the Saints begin to clean up the earth and deal with all of the dead bodies around Jerusalem.

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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby extravagantchristian on Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:07 pm

This "coalition" echos Donald Trump's effort to bring peace to the middle east and eradicate terror. Saudi Arabia leading other Arab nations and excluding Iran. This is part of his plan to achieve the ultimate peace deal in Israel. Offering Israel PEACE AND SAFETY... from Iran.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Douggg on Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:46 am

brett wrote:
Douggg wrote:The Timing of the Gog Magog War
https://youtu.be/WCHQMS32A2A

"Gog and Magog" (Ezekiel 38-39)
https://youtu.be/J1sH6hFWPrU

.

The first video of Chris White is claiming Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38/39 is at the end of the millenium. But can't be because the land has to be cleansed of the dead bodies, implying that there must be a reason to do so - which is not the case in Revelation 20 - because this present earth and everything in it is going to be melted away in a fervent heat according to Peter.

The new heaven and the new earth is in Revelation 21.

Revelation 21:

1. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

No more sea. Following Gog/Magog - east of the sea - in verse 11. Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38/39 is not at the end of the millennium, but right before the 70th week begins.

Ezekiel 39:11And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby brett on Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:11 pm

GodsStudent wrote:Hi Brett:

Actually, what you say makes sense to me given the entire planet right now. At this time, and knowing we're in the end time, I look at what scripture says, and it's hard to make certain things "fit"....as in I know who the identity of Gog and Magog is, and yet, they don't seem to have the appropriate agenda at this time to "fit" with the scriptures I am expecting to see fulfilled in near future.

It would be a tall order if you didn't write anything down, and so I'm not asking that, but IF you wrote things down and it wouldn't be SO cumbersome to point out other things you noted during your study, I, for one, would be very interested in seeing what you came up with. I say that because just the few scriptures you posted here do make sense with what you're saying.

I have always followed along, it seems, with some of the "traditional" interpretations, as many of us do here on this board. Then, through my own studies, or someone bringing up "arguments" such as the one you've brought here, I begin to move away from what I think I know and refer back to scripture to revisit and revise my understanding.

Scripture is so complex, yet it's not. It simply requires that we invest lots of time and thought and not try to make face value with a verse here or there. The longer I am a part of a serious group of watchers, the more this point drives itself home. There have been times in this group when I have learned simply by putting various verses from various chapters with others....which means you have to have a good basic knowledge and memory of the various books and chapters in order to be in the meat, and capable of following along.

I need to make more time to seriously get into the Word. I am guilty of allowing myself to be diverted from my studies with the cares of this world.

Thanks for sharing your impressions of Ez. 38/39......I am inspired to look at it more to see what conclusions I may gather.


Those videos I posted are probably the best way to communicate the reasons why Gog Magog happen at the end of the millennium, they provide all the scriptures. It also saves me a lot of time :grin:

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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby brett on Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:39 pm

Douggg wrote:The first video of Chris White is claiming Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38/39 is at the end of the millenium. But can't be because the land has to be cleansed of the dead bodies, implying that there must be a reason to do so - which is not the case in Revelation 20 - because this present earth and everything in it is going to be melted away in a fervent heat according to Peter.

The new heaven and the new earth is in Revelation 21.

Revelation 21:

1. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

No more sea. Following Gog/Magog - east of the sea - in verse 11. Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38/39 is not at the end of the millennium, but right before the 70th week begins.

Ezekiel 39:11And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.


Firstly I don't believe the earth is utterly replaced (or completely melted away in fervent heat), it's just MADE new imho. So the New heaven and the New earth are not total replacements of the current heaven and earth but are like a huge renovation (fix up) of the current heaven and earth. Kinda like this present earth has all the seas removed and the curse is fully removed . Then a New Jerusalem descends upon it.

I would like to ask you to think about the exact timing of when the current heaven and earth will be made NEW. When is the New Heaven and New Earth going to be established and when will the New Jerusalem descend from Heaven? If you think about this question and look for an answer you will realise that no clear timeline is given - as in the amount of years. How long does satan deceive the nations AFTER the 1000 years of the millennium have expired? Even this we don't know........How long would it take for satan to deceive the nations and cause them to try to attack Jerusalem with Jesus as King over it? Since in this current Age satan is going to be cast down out of heaven and then there are 7 more years (Daniel 70th week). I would argue that it would take satan at least MORE THAN 7 years to deceive the nations in the millennium and lead them to try to attack Jerusalem because we know the millennium is a LESS wicked time, it would imho take longer to stir up a rebellion against Jesus during the millennium as compared to the Age we live in now.

Basically my point is this. After the 1000 years of the millennium have expired we do not know how many years satan will be (let lose) deceiving the world.........and we don't know how long after the Ezekiel 38,39 event there will be until the New Heaven and New earth are established. I am making the proposition that the seas will still exist until the moment that God establishes the new heaven and the new earth.....which mean the seas exist for some number of years AFTER the millennium......how many years we don't know. I would hazard a guess that it would be at least 14 years. At least 7 years for satan to stir up a rebellion and then at least 7 more years for the land to be cleansed before the earth is made New again (New Heaven and New Earth). But who really knows? It could be 100 years?

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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby extravagantchristian on Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:54 pm

It seems like there's some kind of alliance forming of the arab nations and it's interesting that they are offering Israel "PEACE and SAFETY" in the process.

The 7 year covenant may or may not include a 2 state solution, but definitely seems to involve MANY nations.

Daniel 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 77986.html
Saudi Arabia’s powerful crown prince Mohammed bin Salman has vowed terrorists will be pursued until they are “wiped off the face of the earth” in the first meeting of a new Arab alliance designed to defeat extremism.

“We will not allow them (terrorists) to distort our peaceful religion. Today we are sending a strong message that we are working together to fight terrorism,” Prince bin Salman told assembled defence ministers in a keynote address in Riyadh on Sunday.

“In past years, terrorism has been functioning in all of our countries... with no coordination” against it from governments, he added. “This ends today, with this alliance.”
Last edited by extravagantchristian on Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Douggg on Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:30 pm

brett wrote:
Douggg wrote:
I would like to ask you to think about the exact timing of when the current heaven and earth will be made NEW. When is the New Heaven and New Earth going to be established and when will the New Jerusalem descend from Heaven?


Brett, what I think is that when Jesus returns, He will have to restore the earth from all the destruction done during the great tribulation. That is when I think this present earth will be made new - at the beginning of the millenium.

The New Heaven and New Earth in Revelation 21, on the other hand, is after the great white throne judgement, which itself will immediately follow the current heaven and earth being completely destroyed.



So my view is....

1. Jesus restores this current earth at the beginning of the millennium. All things made new.

2. Near the very end of the millenium, Satan instigates the heathen in a final rebellion

3. God quickly destroys them.

4. The second resurrection takes place. Death, the last enemy, and hell cast into the lake of fire.

5. The current heaven and earth are destroyed and all the works therein

6. The great white throne judgement

7. The New Heaven and New Earth created. New Jerusalem descending from the third heaven to the New Earth, as the glorifying moment of the new creation.




The New Heaven and New Earth will be in similitude to the present earth, but will be a replacement, not a restoration i.e. made new.

Gog/Magog in Revelation 20, imo, are those nations which first came up against Israel in Ezekiel 38/39 a thousand years plus, before. During the thousand years, Jesus rules with a rod of iron - which to me indicates not a complete embracing of his rule - over what the bible calls the heathens.

So at the end of the millennium - near the end, not after it is over, imo - Satan will be loosed and will be allowed to cause one last rebellion by the heathen.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Jay Ross on Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:34 pm

Because we confuse the timeline of when the "prophesised" wars will occur, we come into conflict with people who have placed them the other way round.

The Rev 16:12-16 prophecy has been partially fulfilled with the three foul frog like spirits having already gone out unto the world performing their signs and wonders to begin drawing the kings of the earth to Armageddon where they and their armies will be judged. This will occur about around 27 years from now give or take two or three years either way.

Brett, your understanding that the God Magog wars will occur after the bottomless pit is unlocked and Satan is released to go out into the world in an attempt to establish himself as a deity and a king over all the nations and people groups on the earth at that time. The period of time that he will be allowed to attempt this will be in the order of around 25 years before he, Satan, the beast and the little horn, i.e. the false prophet, are captured by Christ and dispatched into the Lake of Fire.

Brett your understanding of the Greek word, "καινήν" G:2537 as found in Rev 21:1-2 has the meaning of made fresh/like new again" which is independent of the G:3501, "neos" Greek root which is new with respect to "age", i.e. the newer/younger women, for in the context that the women were younger women, in comparison to the "older" women in the church at the time the Letters were written.

Peoples understanding is often coloured by the "tradition: of previous translation rather than the actual context of the original Greek texts.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby brett on Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:37 pm

Douggg wrote:Brett, what I think is that when Jesus returns, He will have to restore the earth from all the destruction done during the great tribulation. That is when I think this present earth will be made new - at the beginning of the millenium.

The New Heaven and New Earth in Revelation 21, on the other hand, is after the great white throne judgement, which itself will immediately follow the current heaven and earth being completely destroyed.

So my view is....

1. Jesus restores this current earth at the beginning of the millennium. All things made new.

2. Near the very end of the millenium, Satan instigates the heathen in a final rebellion

3. God quickly destroys them.

4. The second resurrection takes place. Death, the last enemy, and hell cast into the lake of fire.

5. The current heaven and earth are destroyed and all the works therein

6. The great white throne judgement

7. The New Heaven and New Earth created. New Jerusalem descending from the third heaven to the New Earth, as the glorifying moment of the new creation.

The New Heaven and New Earth will be in similitude to the present earth, but will be a replacement, not a restoration i.e. made new.

Gog/Magog in Revelation 20, imo, are those nations which first came up against Israel in Ezekiel 38/39 a thousand years plus, before. During the thousand years, Jesus rules with a rod of iron - which to me indicates not a complete embracing of his rule - over what the bible calls the heathens.

So at the end of the millennium - near the end, not after it is over, imo - Satan will be loosed and will be allowed to cause one last rebellion by the heathen.


Ok to start with I think we are on the same general wavelength concerning the New Heaven and New Earth. However there are some differences.

I think the Earth is renewed (made new) not replaced.
You're saying our present earth is suddenly replaced by a brand new one that's still similar in many respects to the old one it replaced, but new and perfect. Basically you're saying a complete new planet is created.

You quoted some Ezekiel scriptures that describe "seas" as existing after the Ezekiel 38,39 event. You were saying that at the end of the millennium the seas will no longer exist because there will be a New Heaven and New Earth without seas - from Rev 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

In response:

Imho we don't know how many years will pass after the millennium until God establishes the New Heaven and New Earth. No clear timeline is given. I don't believe the scriptures say that IMMEDIATELY after the millennium that a New Heaven and New Earth will be created. The scriptures don't say this imho. There are unknown gaps of time missing, not enough detail is given and God is just telling us the Big things (highlights) for those distant future times - in Revelation.

(1) Rev 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,"

Imho this is clearly telling us that AFTER 1000 years then satan is loosed. I hold to this belief quite strongly as the scripture imho is clear here. So we are left wondering how much time does satan need to bring about global rebellion against Jesus?
So this right here places doubt on the DATE that God will establish the New Heaven and New Earth......imho we simply don't know....we aren't given enough information. Imho this fits in with the idea of a more gradual renewing of this earth rather than a sudden total replacement.

(2) Looking at Rev 21 you will notice God says more to give clues about the original term "passed away" in verse 1.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Rev 21:5 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

Imho God is saying that the old things are passed away, in the sense that they are no longer the way they used to be - but rather have been changed, been made new by God. Similar to how we will receive a new body at the rapture. Our new bodies are not brand new creations from scratch, they are our current bodies CHANGED.

(3) Other scriptures stating the physical Earth will endure forever

Ecclesiastes 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
Psalm 78:69 And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.
Psalm 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Hebrews 1:10-12 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed:
Psalm 102: 25,26 25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed
1 Corinthians 15:51,52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Consider that last large scripture. Some believers will be alive when the rapture happens. Their bodies will be changed at that time. Imho this is similar to the New Heaven and New Earth, in that they will be changed into something new, made new, not utterly new creations.

Let's look at what Peter was talking about:
2 Peter 3:10

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


It is commonly accepted that the Day of the Lord is the day of the rapture and the start of God's Wrath. This is coming soon imho and we all know that the earth is not utterly destroyed after God's Wrath for Jesus sets up his Kingdom in Jerusalem and then goes on to rule for 1000 years......so this 2nd Peter verse shows us that when the scriptures say pass away and that the elements shall melt with fervent heat - they don't mean what the current heavens and earth will be utterly destroyed into oblivion - ceasing to exist - no it just means they will suffer great damage and change.

I'll have to stop my post here and continue later.....I have to attend to my daughters and pick up my wife.....have limited time these days.....

God bless.

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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Douggg on Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:29 pm

brett wrote:

In response:

Imho we don't know how many years will pass after the millennium until God establishes the New Heaven and New Earth. No clear timeline is given. I don't believe the scriptures say that IMMEDIATELY after the millennium that a New Heaven and New Earth will be created. The scriptures don't say this imho. There are unknown gaps of time missing, not enough detail is given and God is just telling us the Big things (highlights) for those distant future times - in Revelation.


Brett, where on the sequence of events following verse 9 would it make sense to (1) spend the time and effort to clean up this presence earth and (2) 7 years following for the burning of the war implements instead of wood ?

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.





And also in your timing interpretation of Ezekiel 38-39 Gog/Magog, you are having to apply not until after the millennium and Satan cast into the lake of fire? The gathering of the Jews back to Israel at the end of the millennium?

Ezekiel 39:
28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

I see those verses applying at Jesus return to this earth to begin the millennium. And verse 28 corresponding to Matthew 24 :31.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

No-one who holds the Ezekiel 38-39 Gog/Magog as being in Revelation 20 - I have heard, has ever acknowledged that Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the Armageddon feast, and verse 21 is Jesus having returned to this earth, and the remainder of Ezekiel 39 is Jesus stating the way things will be at the beginning of his millennium reign.

None of Ezekiel 39:21-29 would make any sense to be at the end of the millennium. But those verses would make sense on the onset of the millennium.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby brett on Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:47 am

Douggg wrote:Brett, where on the sequence of events following verse 9 would it make sense to (1) spend the time and effort to clean up this presence earth and (2) 7 years following for the burning of the war implements instead of wood ?


I don't see any problem with Rev verses 20:9-15 covering a large enough span of time that it can include the 7 years of cleansing the land and burning the weapons. I don't have any issue with this........seems perfectly reasonable to me. The verses here in Revelation, as I stated earlier, are not great in detail, they are just giving the main points. Its not clear how much time is involved between these verses.

Regarding Rev 20:11, obviously the Great White throne is in heaven and the earth is not in heaven. I see this verse as just making the point that the Great White throne is not of this world, or earth, that the earth is not in heaven where the Great White Throne exists. Its like we're talking about another dimension or something.

I need to go to sleep now. I will pick this up again tomorrow.

God Bless.

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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Douggg on Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:54 am

brett wrote:
Douggg wrote:Brett, where on the sequence of events following verse 9 would it make sense to (1) spend the time and effort to clean up this presence earth and (2) 7 years following for the burning of the war implements instead of wood ?


I don't see any problem with Rev verses 20:9-15 covering a large enough span of time that it can include the 7 years of cleansing the land and burning the weapons. I don't have any issue with this........seems perfectly reasonable to me. The verses here in Revelation, as I stated earlier, are not great in detail, they are just giving the main points. Its not clear how much time is involved between these verses.

Regarding Rev 20:11, obviously the Great White throne is in heaven and the earth is not in heaven. I see this verse as just making the point that the Great White throne is not of this world, or earth, that the earth is not in heaven where the Great White Throne exists. Its like we're talking about another dimension or something.

I need to go to sleep now. I will pick this up again tomorrow.

God Bless.

.

But where would you put those seven years in respect to the verses?

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

here?


10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

here?


11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

here?


12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

here?


13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

here?


14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

here?

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

here?


________________________________________________________________________________________________
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

I don't have a problem with your rationale that the heaven where God's throne is - is in a different dimension than this heaven (the first and second heaven) and earth.

What about in verse 11, the dimension containing this present heaven (the sun, the moon) and earth being destroyed as Peter said would happen? "no place for them" - that dimension no longer existing.

According to what is written in verse 11, it appears to be at the end of the Day of the Lord. Which the Day of the Lord is first initiated a thousand (plus a few years) years earlier when the Antichrist, illegitimate King of Israel at the time, goes into the temple, sits, claiming to be God - triggering the Day of the Lord.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby brett on Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:53 pm

Douggg wrote:But where would you put those seven years in respect to the verses?


I would probably put the seven years between verses 10 & 11.

Douggg wrote:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

What about in verse 11, the dimension containing this present heaven (the sun, the moon) and earth being destroyed as Peter said would happen? "no place for them" - that dimension no longer existing.

According to what is written in verse 11, it appears to be at the end of the Day of the Lord. Which the Day of the Lord is first initiated a thousand (plus a few years) years earlier when the Antichrist, illegitimate King of Israel at the time, goes into the temple, sits, claiming to be God - triggering the Day of the Lord.



Ok I see another difference emerging in our views here. I see the "Day of the Lord" as a single great day (a single great event that happens in a matter of hours). Whenever I see the event in the bible referred to as the "Day of the Lord", I see that as the DAY when the Sun & Moon are darkened, followed by Jesus appearing in the clouds and then us being raptured. Then 30 minutes after we have been raptured God starts pouring out His Wrath. I would compare it to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. The SAME DAY that Lot was taken out of the city (to spare him) fire and brimstone reigned down from heaven.....I see the Day of the Lord (rapture and Wrath) as happening the same way. In the future there will be a day when the Sun & moon are darkened and the Lord appears in the clouds in great glory. The saints will be raptured (all of us) that will take perhaps an hour and then we'll all depart and 30 minutes later fire and brimstone will fall from heaven on to the earth, heralding the start of God's Wrath (Trumpets Bowls) - which will last approximately 1215 days, up until the millennium starts.

The "Day of the Lord" starts Gods Wrath - which starts with fire from God's altar being hurled down upon the earth by the angel. This causes extreme fires globally so that 1/3 of all the trees are burnt up and ALL of the grass is burnt up. That's a global fire, that's probably what Peter was referring to as the elements melting in fervent heat. The earth is burnt up, but still remains afterwards, even 2/3 of the trees survive. Then the rest of God's Wrath is poured out, the Trumpets and the Bowls for the next 1215 days.

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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Douggg on Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:55 am

brett wrote:
Douggg wrote:But where would you put those seven years in respect to the verses?


I would probably put the seven years between verses 10 & 11.



Okay, you are putting the 7 years and the events following Ezekiel 39 destruction of Gog's army here after verse 10...

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

cleanup of the land of the dead bodies for 7 months (Thus shall they cleanse land) and the burning of the weapons for 7 years.....
16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.

Followed by.... Brett, cleaning the bodies of the destruction of Gog/Magog has already taken place. What is this feast and dead bodies about?

17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

Brett, after the millenium is over, and Jesus having ruled from Jerusalem for a thousand years - they don't know that he is the Lord their God not until the end of the thousand years? really?



23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

______________________________________________________________________________________________________


Daniel 9:
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38, up to Ezekiel 39:16, happens here. The 7 years following are this week in verse 27

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Ezekiel 39:17-20 Armageddon, Ezekiel 39:21- 29 beginning of the millennium, happens here
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby brett on Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:18 pm

Douggg wrote:Brett, after the millenium is over, and Jesus having ruled from Jerusalem for a thousand years - they don't know that he is the Lord their God not until the end of the thousand years? really?


Yes Jesus will be challenged again - and not until God defeats satan once and for all and then casts him into the Lake of fire will the matter be settled. It seems hard to believe that with Jesus on the earth ruling - how anyone could not believe in Jesus. But there will be MANY unsaved people during the millennium. The multitudes that satan deceives to attempt an attack on Jesus and the saints in Jerusalem make it clear that there are multitudes at that time (during the millennium and after 1000 years of Jesus reign) that will not believe in Jesus. They will know He exists but they will not believe He is who he says he is.........or they will not believe He is good or right.....they will see him as bad for some reason.

Think back to the first time Jesus came. He performed miracles, signs and wonders and yet the Pharisees still would not believe upon him, instead they plotted to kill him. Someone could as easily ask the question. How could the Pharisees having witnessed signs, miracles and wonders, and having heard Jesus speak often and being in his presence - how could they not believe? The millennium will be a good time to live, but it will still not be perfect. The differences are:

(1) Animals will stop being violent
(2) People will start to live longer again - like before the flood.
(3) Jesus will be on earth
(4) satan will be bound for 1000 years.

It will be a peaceful time, due to Jesus ruling justly, however there will still be sin and death during the millennium. I have heard people say that the millennium will be like it was before the flood, as far as creation goes. If Jesus will be ruling with an IRON ROD then that implies there will be NEED of an IRON ROD. The way I see it, Jesus will be enacting the full Law of Moses properly. The law that was never fully implemented by the Israel of old - it will finally be applied FULLY and properly by Jesus. So in the millennium there will be people breaking the law and being put to death by Jesus and being punished under the law by Jesus.....that's how I see it. Peace during the millnenium will come from the fact that the Law will be enforced and justice will be served by Jesus and that will create the global peace, but afterwards when satan is released it will be a different story imho.

Remember that satan is loosed to deceive the people of the millennium. So apparently this Ezekiel 38,39 event will be what is needed to deal with this last deception. Apparently God (Jesus) will still be questioned (challenged) during the millennium (need for Iron Rod) and then much more strongly challenged by satan after the millennium. Obviously after the millennium deception will abound - due to satan being let loose - and satan will round up the other nations to attack Jesus. So as bad as our times are now - with the Great Tribulation coming soon etc - even then - after the millennium - there will be a bad time of great deception with many rebelling against Jesus because of the great deception. Gods answer to deal with that satanic deception once and for all will be the Ezekiel 38,39 event.

Douggg wrote:Daniel 9:
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38, up to Ezekiel 39:16, happens here. The 7 years following are this week in verse 27

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Ezekiel 39:17-20 Armageddon, Ezekiel 39:21- 29 beginning of the millennium, happens here


If you think about this a little more you will realise it has some really big problems. Daniels 70th week is a time of great world wars, great upheavals, desolations, Wrath, in fact it contains the time of unequalled distress in all of mankind's history - its just not logical that Israel would have the time to be busy cleaning up after an "Ezekiel battle", busy burying the dead and cleansing the land. Then going on to burn the weapons for the next 7 years ...... in the wars and wrath of Daniels 70th week, Israel would need all the resources it could get, they would not have time to bury, or cleanse the land, nor would it make any sense to wastefully burn weapons. Remember this will be the time when the Anti-Christ invades Israel in the middle of the week.....You can't do that kind of stuff during war time, during Wrath time, which is what Daniels 70th week is - you could do it after the millennium though. So imho it makes much more sense that Israel would spend the time burying the dead and cleansing the land after the millennium - during a time of absolute PEACE - and just prior to stepping into ETERNITY - the end of sin. That makes much more sense to me. Daniels 70th week is the worst time in all mans history - just remember that.

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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Douggg on Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:05 pm

Brett, you say Gog's destruction in Ezekiel 39 is at the end of the millenium, along with the cleanup.

In Ezekiel 39, there is detail of how the land will be cleaned. Then stated in verse 16....having given the details in the previous verses.

16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.


Okay, Gog's army destroyed, and seven months spent cleaning up land, ending in verse 16.

So what war causes this feast (verses 17-20), since Gog/Magog is over in the previous verses, and the land cleansed already stated....?

17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.
Last edited by Douggg on Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Douggg on Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:12 pm

brett wrote:If you think about this a little more you will realise it has some really big problems. Daniels 70th week is a time of great world wars, great upheavals, desolations, Wrath, in fact it contains the time of unequalled distress in all of mankind's history - its just not logical that Israel would have the time to be busy cleaning up after an "Ezekiel battle", busy burying the dead and cleansing the land.


For most of the first half of the 7 years, Israel will be living in peace, saying peace and safety, since she will believe she has entered the messianic age.

It is not until the abomination of desolation is setup in the middle part of the seven years, that the Great Tribulation will begin.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby brett on Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:38 pm

Douggg wrote:For most of the first half of the 7 years, Israel will be living in peace, saying peace and safety, since she will believe she has entered the messianic age.

It is not until the abomination of desolation is setup in the middle part of the seven years, that the Great Tribulation will begin.


Ok let's assume what you say does happen - first 3.5 years are not too bad - so how would they then burn the weapons for the remaining 3.5 years to fulfil the required 7 years? The Anti-Christ will invade Jerusalem at the mid point and the Jews will be killed, captured and driven out. That sounds like a pretty big problem with the theory right there. And if you're being invaded why would you burn weapons? Wouldn't you want more weapons to fight your enemy? To try to stay alive?

Not to mention that Israel is meant to be living in peace and security to the extent they are called a village with NO WALLS. I think God included that part to help make it clear that what we see today - an Israel with WALLS and lots of security checkpoints and hostilities cannot be the same Israel in Ezekiel 38,39.

If you had the chance would you honestly want to live in Israel today? I certainly would not, knowing what the future holds. Israel is in a hostile neighbourhood, we all know that the AC will invade at the mid point of Daniels 70th week. It will be a place under siege, taken over and trampled down underfoot for 42 months by the gentiles. I mean Jesus says to flee the place when the AOD happens........the 7 year period described in Ezekiel 38,39 of burying the dead, cleansing the land and burning weapons as fuel just cannot happen during Daniels 70th week imho. That sounds to me like something you could only do AFTER a major war was WON and there was no longer any threats to you. Something you could only do after a great VICTORY and fully defeating your enemy......ie during true peace after the millennium, after the final battle of all time.

Also don't forget the Mark of the Beast and all the earthquakes and hail and meteors, and famines and pestilences etc from Gods Wrath.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Douggg on Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:52 pm

brett wrote:
Douggg wrote:For most of the first half of the 7 years, Israel will be living in peace, saying peace and safety, since she will believe she has entered the messianic age.

It is not until the abomination of desolation is setup in the middle part of the seven years, that the Great Tribulation will begin.


Ok let's assume what you say does happen - first 3.5 years are not too bad - so how would they then burn the weapons for the remaining 3.5 years to fulfil the required 7 years?


The bible actually does not say. But, imo, based on having been in the military for 3 years, artillery - I think that when the Jews flee to the mountains, wilderness, when the Abomination of Desolation is setup, the Jews will be eating the meals-ready-to eat, canned rations, that will be found in the various tanks, armored personnel carriers, etc. which will be littering the mountains of Israel, following Gog/Magog earlier. And use the fuel in those vehicles to cook and heat with instead of wood. A lot of those vehicles carry their own engine/generators, as well.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Douggg on Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:21 am

brett wrote:
Douggg wrote:Not to mention that Israel is meant to be living in peace and security to the extent they are called a village with NO WALLS. I think God included that part to help make it clear that what we see today - an Israel with WALLS and lots of security checkpoints and hostilities cannot be the same Israel in Ezekiel 38,39.

If you had the chance would you honestly want to live in Israel today? I certainly would not, knowing what the future holds. Israel is in a hostile neighbourhood, we all know that the AC will invade at the mid point of Daniels 70th week. It will be a place under siege, taken over and trampled down underfoot for 42 months by the gentiles. I mean Jesus says to flee the place when the AOD happens........the 7 year period described in Ezekiel 38,39 of burying the dead, cleansing the land and burning weapons as fuel just cannot happen during Daniels 70th week imho. That sounds to me like something you could only do AFTER a major war was WON and there was no longer any threats to you. Something you could only do after a great VICTORY and fully defeating your enemy......ie during true peace after the millennium, after the final battle of all time.

Israel is not actively fighting any wars right now. And compared to the situation that drove them to return to the land of Israel, the holocaust, it is a lot better than being in the nations. Children play, shopping centers, sports activities. Nonetheless, the potential for a Gog/Magog attack developing is all to apparent.

Back in Daniel's time, Daniel 9 was the prophesy of rebuilding the city and walls - which in 70 AD was destroyed by the Romans, and not rebuilt since. So I am not seeing a wall like the Romans destroyed.... and the Jews scattered to the nations.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby brett on Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:54 am

Douggg wrote:Israel is not actively fighting any wars right now. And compared to the situation that drove them to return to the land of Israel, the holocaust, it is a lot better than being in the nations. Children play, shopping centers, sports activities. Nonetheless, the potential for a Gog/Magog attack developing is all to apparent.

Back in Daniel's time, Daniel 9 was the prophesy of rebuilding the city and walls - which in 70 AD was destroyed by the Romans, and not rebuilt since. So I am not seeing a wall like the Romans destroyed.... and the Jews scattered to the nations.


Just for the record I don't view the modern nation of Israel as Israel. There are some Christians in modern Israel, but this is just a remnant. I believe the true commonwealth of Israel is comprised of all believers in Jesus Christ, just like Abraham believed God and it was accredited to him as righteousness, we believe in Jesus Christ and that is accredited to us as righteousness. Abraham is the father of all who believe. Race, genetics, ethnicity, even gender are not important to God, only believing in Jesus Christ matters. So the children of Abraham are those who believe, not those who are a certain ethnicity. I actually view modern day Israel as a counterfeit Israel setup by the United Nations and the Rothchilds (jewish banking elites). I see the modern nation of Israel as playing a role in the Last Days deception - and do not believe any of the prophecies can be applied to it. Because I do not believe God would bring them back into their land as unbelievers (rejectors of Christ). I believe God will only bring his people back into his land when they have repented of their unbelief, something only possible in the millennium imho. The modern nation of Israel has not repented of its unbelief and 98% of it rejects Jesus Christ. So the nation of Israel being formed in 1948 imho was not by God, but rather by man. So I do not believe the prophecies about the people returning to Israel are being fulfilled at all by what we see in the middle east now. Rather I believe all those prophecies are meant to be applied to the millennial Israel that Jesus will rule over. Israel will be restored but its not the Israel we see today - it will be the Israel Jesus Christ sets up in the millennium. I used to be a strong supporter of the modern nation of Israel up to about 18 months ago. I came across some information that forced me to face the truth about certain things ....... in effect that it was mostly propaganda I was believing - designed to support a political movement rather than what I thought were "Gods People". Modern day Israel is not serving God, its just another corrupt democracy like all nations .... except they are exploiting bible prophecy to trick Christians into always supporting their political agenda. Churches, especially in America, are being used for political purposes.

Anyway I think this discussion has run its course. I have tried to explain my view as clearly as possible and as it often happens people don't always agree. Its perfectly ok not to agree on a matter. It's probably better to end the discussion now so we don't start butting heads over it .... :grin:

The fact you gave me a chance to explain my position is enough for me, so thanks for reading my posts and responding and asking questions. People take time to digest and process things for themselves. So I will give you the grace to walk your walk and discover things for yourself in your own time.


God Bless.

.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Looking4acity on Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:19 pm

brett wrote:
Just for the record I don't view the modern nation of Israel as Israel. There are some Christians in modern Israel, but this is just a remnant. I believe the true commonwealth of Israel is comprised of all believers in Jesus Christ, just like Abraham believed God and it was accredited to him as righteousness, we believe in Jesus Christ and that is accredited to us as righteousness. Abraham is the father of all who believe. Race, genetics, ethnicity, even gender are not important to God, only believing in Jesus Christ matters. So the children of Abraham are those who believe, not those who are a certain ethnicity. I actually view modern day Israel as a counterfeit Israel setup by the United Nations and the Rothchilds (jewish banking elites). I see the modern nation of Israel as playing a role in the Last Days deception - and do not believe any of the prophecies can be applied to it. Because I do not believe God would bring them back into their land as unbelievers (rejectors of Christ). I believe God will only bring his people back into his land when they have repented of their unbelief, something only possible in the millennium imho. The modern nation of Israel has not repented of its unbelief and 98% of it rejects Jesus Christ. So the nation of Israel being formed in 1948 imho was not by God, but rather by man. So I do not believe the prophecies about the people returning to Israel are being fulfilled at all by what we see in the middle east now. Rather I believe all those prophecies are meant to be applied to the millennial Israel that Jesus will rule over. Israel will be restored but its not the Israel we see today - it will be the Israel Jesus Christ sets up in the millennium. I used to be a strong supporter of the modern nation of Israel up to about 18 months ago. I came across some information that forced me to face the truth about certain things ....... in effect that it was mostly propaganda I was believing - designed to support a political movement rather than what I thought were "Gods People". Modern day Israel is not serving God, its just another corrupt democracy like all nations .... except they are exploiting bible prophecy to trick Christians into always supporting their political agenda. Churches, especially in America, are being used for political purposes.


I think this is extremely important information and I am so glad that you shared it. Israel today IS NOT the Israel that God is going to gather and it is important to differentiate between the two. I hope this can be discussed further some day, in its own thread, but for now I wanted to add something.

I beleive that the Ezekiel chapters preceding the gog-magog prophecies give the clues for a dual prophecy. I think from about 34:11. God gathers HIS Israel to the mountains that have been desolate on the Day of the Lord. They will be living in peace and safety. And when Gog attacks them, He will fulfill the prophecies.


Blessings
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Douggg on Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:10 am

[quote="Looking4acity"][/quote]

Which verses in Ezekiel 39 are not talking about literal Israel? All of the descriptions refer to geographic literal Israel.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Looking4acity on Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:09 am

Douggg wrote:
Looking4acity wrote:


Which verses in Ezekiel 39 are not talking about literal Israel? All of the descriptions refer to geographic literal Israel.


I'm sorry if I didn't make the point clear. This "literal" Israel of Ezekiel is not the modern state of Israel we see today. Satan has created an imitation of what God intends. The Ezekiel chapters speak of the Israel God will be creating. It will happen when He gathers all His people to the mountains of Israel on the Day of the Lord.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Ready1 on Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:04 am

Looking4acity wrote:I'm sorry if I didn't make the point clear. This "literal" Israel of Ezekiel is not the modern state of Israel we see today. Satan has created an imitation of what God intends. The Ezekiel chapters speak of the Israel God will be creating. It will happen when He gathers all His people to the mountains of Israel on the Day of the Lord.


And yet, as we view Ezekiel's vision of Chapter 37, what we see today is the modern state of Israel up through verse 8.

Eze 37:1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out in the Spirit of the LORD and set me down in the middle of the valley; it was full of bones.
Eze 37:2 And he led me around among them, and behold, there were very many on the surface of the valley, and behold, they were very dry.
Eze 37:3 And he said to me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" And I answered, "O Lord GOD, you know."
Eze 37:4 Then he said to me, "Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
Eze 37:5 Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live.
Eze 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live, and you shall know that I am the LORD."
Eze 37:7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone.
Eze 37:8 And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them.



Israel, after a hiatus of around 2000 years, has been regathered from all over the world, where they had no hope, to a land of their own. And they are there without a vision of God or a belief in him. God has done what he said that he would do. The bones have come back together, the sinews and muscle have covered the bones, and the flesh is covering it all.

Is God done? NO! He is not finished with Israel. Make no mistake, the modern Israel which is in place is certainly no creation of Satan. He lacks that kind of vision and capability. The modern Israel which is currently in place is simply God's unfinished business. What does God say? Here it is:

Eze 37:9 Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord GOD: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live."
Eze 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.
Eze 37:11 Then he said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are indeed cut off.'
Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel.
Eze 37:13 And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people.
Eze 37:14 And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD."


God says that this nation of unbelievers will be believers, but an operation of God must be performed first! The breath of God must come and breathe upon them that they may live. Before that happens, there is no breath in them. And that is exactly the Israel that we see today. I have no problem if you want to say that Satan would like to corrupt the work that God is doing in Israel, but I challenge you to find anywhere in scripture a Satanic regathering of Israel.

When will God place the "breath of life" into National Israel? Well, that is certainly a topic for another thread, but suffice it to say that God is not finished with present day modern Israel.

The Ezekiel chapters speak of the Israel God will be creating.


This statement is correct, but you must include Chapter 37 in your viewpoint as well. And look at what the rest of the chapter says as well. Judah and Israel will be brought back together: hasn't happened yet. David's throne will be occupied: hasn't happened yet. God will live with man: hasn't physically happened yet.

Eze 37:15 The word of the LORD came to me:
Eze 37:16 "Son of man, take a stick and write on it, 'For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him'; then take another stick and write on it, 'For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.'
Eze 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand.
Eze 37:18 And when your people say to you, 'Will you not tell us what you mean by these?'
Eze 37:19 say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand.
Eze 37:20 When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes,
Eze 37:21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land.
Eze 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms.

Eze 37:23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Eze 37:24 "My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes.
Eze 37:25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever.
Eze 37:26 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore.
Eze 37:27 My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Eze 37:28 Then the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore."


The Ezekiel chapters speak of the Israel God will be creating. It will happen when He gathers all His people to the mountains of Israel on the Day of the Lord.


This is true also, but a must come before b, and b must come before c. Regathering of the bones, then sinews, then flesh, then skin, then breath. And somewhere in there is a terrible time of trouble yet to come upon the earth, during which time most will be killed, but God will protect His people.
Just observing.

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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby brett on Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:13 am

.
All the scripture you quoted above is about believers being gathered from the nations at the end of this Age (when Christ has already returned to setup the millennial Israel). Its not about the Israel we see today. The proof is right there in the scripture you quoted - staring you in the face - yet you don't seem to be seeing it.


Eze 37:24 "My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes.
Eze 37:25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever.


The "David" being mentioned here is the IMMORTAL Jesus Christ - its says "and David my servant shall be their prince forever That IS Jesus Christ ! He will be Prince over Israel forever.........that only happens from the start of the millennium onwards.

Jeremiah talked about the same thing:

Jeremiah 23:5-8 (KJV)
5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.
7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
8 But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.


So realise that all this scripture is talking about when Jesus Christ is RULER over all Israel (a re-united Israel) and gathers believers from all over the earth and brings them into Israel. We all know this only happens in the millennium....the proof is plain and clear - its even right there in the scripture you quoted.

The bones being brought back to life is the 1st resurrection - the rapture - when the dead rise in Christ. This is when the dead in Christ are raised from the graves and given their new spiritual bodies at the rapture.

The Israel we see today is not ruled over by Jesus and is not recognised by God, because it was not setup by God.

But I understand its going to take you guys a while to realise this, time to digest it. Heck it took me probably 25 years!! The modern zionist political propaganda has been around for a long time in our churches and they really pull on the heart strings to loyally support the modern POLITICAL nation of Israel. The best thing to do is look at all the scriptures in the New Testament about Jews and Israel. You will see that God is not interested in ethnicity, race or the PHYSICAL seeds of Abraham. He is interested in people BELIEVING in His SON. Its such a twisted idea that a political nation (government) on the earth could somehow be Gods favoured people, especially when that nation promotes the same sodomy that Babylon (USA) does.. When you start to see the weird political favouritism that exists in modern political zionism (that no matter what God favours the Israeli government) you will realise how twisted it is. For example there are many Palestinian Christians, yet somehow many western believers do not support them, they rather support the Israeli government, politicians & military. There's something very weird about this and the deeper you dig the more you realise the deception behind modern Zionism. There are even a reasonably sizeable group of Jews who do NOT support modern zionism, who do not support the existence of the modern political state of Israel because they say only God Himself will establish it supernaturally.

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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby mrgravyard49 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:57 am

This thread is a good example of why I don't debate and have issues with the Bible. Give me any book in the Bible and have 1000 different people read it and you will have 1000 different opinions. What I do is watch world events and go and read about it in the Bible and form my own opinion. Right now I see Ezekiel 38 to happen before this time next year. But again that is my opinion. I say let's all watch and see how things turn out. Sadly the Bible can divide believers.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby ToledoDebbie on Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:17 am

mrgravyard49 wrote:This thread is a good example of why I don't debate and have issues with the Bible. Give me any book in the Bible and have 1000 different people read it and you will have 1000 different opinions. What I do is watch world events and go and read about it in the Bible and form my own opinion. Right now I see Ezekiel 38 to happen before this time next year. But again that is my opinion. I say let's all watch and see how things turn out. Sadly the Bible can divide believers.


mrgravyard49: I respectfully disagree with your statement that the "Bible" divides believers. The Bible is the inerrant word of God, absolute truth and everything within its pages will take place, exactly as stated. It is "we" believers who cause division in our attempt to interpret and predict what God has ordained. I believe that everything that is important for us to know in this time and age, will become crystal clear as the events unfold. I do study and have great interest in prophecy, but, like you I rarely debate prophecy. I pray, I watch and I "Stand" for Jesus.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Ready1 on Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:25 am

The bones being brought back to life is the 1st resurrection - the rapture - when the dead rise in Christ. This is when the dead in Christ are raised from the graves and given their new spiritual bodies at the rapture.


That is certainly a new twist! Never heard anything remotely like that!

This is a good example of why I rarely post any more, as well. So I will go back to...just observing.
Just observing.

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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby brett on Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:34 pm

Don't get discouraged guys, thinking bible prophecy is too confusing...... its not ...... the problem is this world is full of deception. Once you start recognising the deception better, you will start seeing the Truth better too. There's a heck of a lot of "self-interest" & "self glorification" in modern zionism.......that should be enough to give it away right there.

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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby david on Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:44 pm

Ezekiel 37:11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

The NIV does not include the word "whole".

Romans 11:26 And so all (Whole House) Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:



12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,


Personally I believe a grave is a grave. Also I think it's great everyone has their own opinion, it just makes things exciting. I'm not here to bend anyone else's view, I'm not here to debate. In Love.
Last edited by david on Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Jay Ross on Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:55 pm

Ready1 wrote:
The bones being brought back to life is the 1st resurrection - the rapture - when the dead rise in Christ. This is when the dead in Christ are raised from the graves and given their new spiritual bodies at the rapture.


That is certainly a new twist! Never heard anything remotely like that!

<snip>


David I too had misgivings about what Brett had written.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby brett on Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:17 pm

The Old Testament saints will be resurrected and raptured too. When Jesus returns all who are written in the Book of Life (up to the point of time of the rapture) will be bodily resurrected and raptured as far as I understand it. That includes King David, all the prophets, the 12 tribes of Israel, the Apostles...etc..etc...

Israel will return - the Old Testament saints are covered by Jesus blood just as much as we are. They will be resurrected and restored to their land in Israel. And Jesus Christ will be King over all, its going to be a really awesome time. Especially with satan locked up for 1000 years, that in itself will bring about a great time of peace globally.

This is another proof that modern Israel is not what the prophecies are talking about. Consider what Christ will be doing, raising the dead and restoring Israel and being King over it.......that is a much BIGGER event than the emergence of an impostor Israel now.......That is a far more AMAZING event than the United Nations setting up modern Israel. What Jesus Christ will do in the rapture & millennium is what the prophecies are talking about and that is what deserves the focus of prophecy, not modern Israel's government and military, but the incredible return of Israel in the millennium, literally back from the dead.

Jesus talked about it a lot too, because its HIS Kingdom that's coming, when He gets to rule. Considering what happened the first time (being crucified by Israel) its no wonder Jesus is looking forward also to HIS coming Kingdom.

Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

These are real earthly thrones that will be setup in the millennium.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


We shall reign on this earth - during the millennium.....and beyond. This is something else I got a clearer understanding of recently. This earth will remain forever ....... the creation will return back to the conditions of the Garden of Eden ....... with no sin. That's the End Game, the whole point - to get mankind back to the garden of Eden so he can finally eat from the tree of life and live forever ..... on this earth .... and God Himself will dwell on this earth also - among us - in this present physical creation (universe).... it will be a new physical Jerusalem that comes DOWN from heaven to this earth ...... this earth and this creation will remain forever .... for some reason I always thought of the physical creation as temporary - but it hit me recently - this physical creation will continue on forever more ..... That's why God created it in the first place...

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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Jay Ross on Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:28 pm

Brett the issue is not that the dead will be resurrected when Christ come in the clouds with all of the heavenly host, but a previous discussion on the first resurrection ended in that thread being closed. Because the first resurrection is only of people who have lost their heads before the start of the Millennium Age for their belief in the Lord, the rest of the dead will be raise over a thousand years later, towards the very end of the Millennium Age.

Your view of when Christ returns dictates what you are writing and IMHO there is an error in the assumption that you are making.

Shalom
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby david on Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:24 pm

Hi brett, so maybe I’m looking at this differently than you are. Anyway I see 2 yeas and 3 nays for the Earth remaining forever.

brett wrote:...This earth will remain forever ....... the creation will return back to the conditions of the Garden of Eden ....... with no sin. That's the End Game, the whole point - to get mankind back to the garden of Eden so he can finally eat from the tree of life and live forever ..... on this earth .... and God Himself will dwell on this earth also - among us - in this present physical creation (universe).... it will be a new physical Jerusalem that comes DOWN from heaven to this earth ...... this earth and this creation will remain forever .... for some reason I always thought of the physical creation as temporary - but it hit me recently - this physical creation will continue on forever more ..... That's why God created it in the first place...


Ecclesiastes 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever. (Yea)

Isa 17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. (Nay)

Matt. 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. (Nay)

2 Peter 3 1:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness… (Nay)

Rev 21:1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. (Nay)


No disrespect here, my JW mother in-law (I love her very much) believes the earth will remain forever.

From the JW web site: These “new heavens” and “new earth,” according to the Scriptures, are not a new material heavens or new literal earth. The physical earth and heavens were made perfect, and the Scriptures show they will remain forever. (Psalm 89:36, 37; 104:5) The “new earth” will be a righteous society of people living on earth, and the “new heavens” will be a perfect heavenly kingdom, or government, that will rule over this earthly society of people.


Psalm 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. (Yea)


Personally I'm not sure what I think, I do not have a position on this. It's NAMOS (not a matter of salvation).
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby Loop on Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:33 pm

The Israel we see today is not ruled over by Jesus and is not recognised by God, because it was not setup by God.


I personally disagree ..
I think Amos 1:6 shows that God does recognize Israel as well as several other verses

Amos 1:6
Thus saith the Lord; For three transgressions of Gaza, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they carried away captive the whole captivity, to deliver them up to Edom:
Didn't post it all or the others but he/God is punishing these people for their continued transgressions against his people there..

My opinion..
Psalms 91
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
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Re: WATCH NOW

Postby brett on Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:25 pm

david wrote:Ecclesiastes 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever. (Yea)

Isa 17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. (Nay)

Matt. 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. (Nay)

2 Peter 3 1:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness… (Nay)

Rev 21:1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. (Nay)


I believe that if you buried something say 1 km deep (or 1 mile deep) that there would be a good chance its still there after God's declaring of the "New Heaven and New Earth". Because the same dirt will remain, its just the surface and atmosphere of the earth that's going to be renovated....imho. Note this is my opinion and in reality it doesn't really matter all that much anyway.

The 2 Peter verse you quoted does actually vindicate what I'm saying. The Day of the Lord is when Christ returns in the clouds in great glory, the rapture happens and then God's Wrath starts to be poured out, this all happens in a matter of hours. Well the Anti-Christ's kingdom remains for 42 months, much of this (approx 1215 days) is after the rapture, so the earth remains after the Day of the Lord (the rapture) and man still lives upon the earth during God's Wrath, Trumpets, Bowls etc. The earth is not completely destroyed at this time, so here we have Peter describing it as "passing away", yet we know the earth still exists afterwards, its just bombarded on the surface with fire, brimstone and all the others, Trumpets, bowls for approx 1215 days, of which some unsaved people still survive and enter into the millennium. So when the bible says "pass away" it doesn't mean utterly ceasing to exist, it means BIG change is happening to an extent that what used to "be" is no longer recognisable, it passes away from our sight, it can no longer been seen as it used to be seen.

Take a skyscraper for example, during God's Wrath a typical skyscraper would be destroyed and become rumble. Does that mean it totally ceases to exist? Not really, the rumble is still the skyscraper, just its form is no longer recognisable, its glory has been brought down. So its "materials" that make it up still exist but its form has been destroyed. Much like how today we can see evidences of former civilisations because of buried artifacts & ruins etc......something still remains....though its nothing like it used to be.

.
KJV ONLY !
The KJV is the only PURE translation. Avoid modern corruptions like the NIV, they have been altered to support the coming Anti-Christ.
"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7
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