War with Iran

[Resurrection Torchlight]

What nation today has filled the Earth with immorality? What nation has begun an assault on family values, which has spread to the rest of the west and beyond? America that is who. What city is the de-facto world capital? New York. What state, by the same name, has the only other BABYLON in the world outside of Iraq? New York. What nation has spread the practice of abortion? America. What nation has a leader(Obama) which is promoting homosexuality and enforcing "gay rights"? America.

Well you could make a case for Great Britain being all those things too and other European nations as well. We see those things as being true of only America because we live here, but all those things have been true in Europe for a long time now. America didn't fill the earth with immorality, immorality has filled the earth for far longer than America has even existed. The fact is that America was once more conservative in it's values and we have fallen from that place in the last 50 - 60 years. Just because there is a town named Babylon in NY, doesn't mean it is the same Babylon of the end times. The practice of abortion has been around as long as women have been having babies.
According to wiki the modern version of abortion was first developed in France and the first nation to legalize abortion was the Soviet Union in 1920-- read here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_abortion
America is actually a late comer to the modern practices of abortion.
The same can be said about homosexuality and "gay rights" Europe went there long before the USA did.

But of what place can it be said that they are guilty of all the blood of the prophets? This was mentioned in this thread before, but I will post the passage here again.

Revelation 18:21-24
21 Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.
22 “And the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer;
23 and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery.
24 “And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth.”

Matthew 23:34-37
34 “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,
35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36 “Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.


Luke 11:49-51
49 “For this reason also the wisdom of God said, ‘I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute,
50 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation,
51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.’

we can all speculate regarding America, and yes, as a country, we certainly have much to answer for. But what does scripture say?? Scripture points to Jerusalem and it's religious leaders.

RT

[kirthril]

Sorry for jumping in this discussion late but my 2 cents:

How can jerusalem be mystery babylon? It does not rule over the kings of the earth. It is not the city which buys all the worlds products and merchants get rich from her spending. It is not a city in which its inhabitants live in luxury or thinking they are invincible and shall never fall.

How can jerusalem be mystery babylon? Does not the bible say that mystery babylon will have control of the beast (the final empire) before it is betrayed? Is not mystery babylon destroyed in 1hr as mentioned in revelation (the AC's conquest of jerusalem will take much longer). When mystery babylon is destroyed, did not Revelation say MB will become a haunt for demons and the smoke of its burning will rise forever and ever.

As of right now, jerusalem fits none of that, especially when you consider Jerusalem is where the AC takes his seat. Revelation says the beast/AC will hate MB and burn her with fire... so then if its J-town, why then does he later decide to take up residence.
.....................

Now as for the wings of an eagle taking the fleeing jews to the wilderness. Why cant it be the USA? I understand that if the USA is MB then logically it would be impossible to rescue Israel. BUT... take it from this perspective:

If the USA is MB, then God/his angel gives a clear warning to his people to come out of her as to not partake in her judgement. Now, knowing how resourceful we americans can be, and knowing that some of us are gonna wanna be close to the action, what makes anyone here think a few thousand of us wont go over to Israel and help the jews out? Now, from the viewpoint of the rest of the world and to the jews, what is the 1st thing thats gonna come outta their mouths???:

"The americans are coming/helping out"... point is the country doesnt have to exist for people to be identified by that country. We will still be known as americans, and our symbol will still be a eagle. Heck, might it be that the only way jews will identify friendly americans coming to help out is... iono we wear a bald eagle symbol on us?
............

This is just my speculation. But one thing is for sure, J-town is not MB. Its either USA/NYC, a rebuilt babylon, maybe the EU capital. Unless Jerusalem becomes a world power really soon economically, politically, culturally enough to control the final beast empire as the AC rises to power in the way Revelation describes... it just isnt feasible for it to be MB.

[Resurrection Torchlight]

Unless Jerusalem becomes a world power really soon economically, politically, culturally enough to control the final beast empire as the AC rises to power in the way Revelation describes... it just isnt feasible for it to be MB.

Who is to say that won't happen at some point in time. America could fall from world power long before the 70th week ever takes place. It is the religious system that drives the beast. The abominations and spiritual harlotry that will drive what the final kingdom does in practice. Remember that mankind is going to worship the beast, mankind will take the mark in order to buy and sell, this mark is tied to commerce but is also tied to the beast spiritually through worship. The world we are told will also worship the dragon- Satan because he gives his authority to the beast. This also is difficult for us to grasp, because the world is at this time not out-rightly worshiping Satan, it seems so far fetched, yet we are told it will happen.

Revelation 13:2-4
2 And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority.
3 I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast;
4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?”

How is the world today going to come to the place where they will worship the dragon and the beast? Something is going to have to take place that will cause that to happen.

Jerusalem may very well be the place from which the final kingdom rules, just because it hasn't happened yet and just because it seems far fetched in light of current events, doesn't mean that it won't or can't happen in the future. We cannot know how the Lord will work to make Jerusalem the center of the world but He will.

This is not mere speculation on my part, it is what scripture says:

Ezekiel 38:10-16
10 ‘Thus says the Lord God, “It will come about on that day, that thoughts will come into your mind and you will devise an evil plan,
11 and you will say, ‘I will go up against the land of unwalled villages. I will go against those who are at rest, that live securely, all of them living without walls and having no bars or gates,
12 to capture spoil and to seize plunder, to turn your hand against the waste places which are now inhabited, and against the people who are gathered from the nations, who have acquired cattle and goods, who live at the center of the world.’
13 “Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish with all its villages will say to you, ‘Have you come to capture spoil? Have you assembled your company to seize plunder, to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to capture great spoil?’ ” ’
14 “Therefore prophesy, son of man, and say to Gog, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “On that day when My people Israel are living securely, will you not know it?
15 “You will come from your place out of the remote parts of the north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great assembly and a mighty army;
16 and you will come up against My people Israel like a cloud to cover the land. It shall come about in the last days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me when I am sanctified through you before their eyes, O Gog.”

Something is going to happen in the world that will cause Jerusalem to become the religious center of the world, and that religious system will drive the final kingdom. Is that really so hard to believe? The UN resolution to internationalize Jerusalem was written in 1949,

http://www.mideastweb.org/ga303.htm

As recently as 2001 the media has picked up on this idea:
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_ ... 638968.stm

The EU also has this view concerning Jerusalem
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/295001.stm
http://www.fmep.org/reports/special-rep ... -jerusalem

Just this week this article appeared:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Artic ... aspx/11255

It is not hard to imagine what would follow the internationalization of Jerusalem.

RT

[Sword of Geddon]

Jereusalem is not a port city, also, if Jereusalem were Mystery Babylon, it would be destroyed by the beast empire, never to be settled or lived in again. This goes against the promises made by God himself, that one day he would live and rule from Jereusalem during the 1000 year reign of Christ.

So scratch Jereusalem off your list of possible canaudates.

What city today matches the description? New York. You ignore the evidence in front of your faces, for what reason I don't know. Does God himself have to write in red letters on the very Earth itself that New York is Mystery Babylon? I just don't get you guys.

Mystery Babylon is called a woman, a whore. What is in New York's harbor? A statue of a woman, orginally stated to be painted in violet and scarlet, also originally stated to be holding a cup, not a torch.

The first Babylon was charactorized with a tower which was an early attempt by ancient globalists, led by Nimrod, to unite mankind. What is in Manhatten? THE UNITED NATIONS, a modern day tower of babel.

New York is one of the most commericial cities on the planet. It certainly is the US economic capital, considering the stock exchanges, wall street etc are all located in the city.

All the countries of Europe certainly have much to answer for, but your forgetting something very important. The United States is supposed to be a Christian nation. The United States supposibly was founded on Judeo-Christian prinipals. The US certainly has a heritage of God, from the Pilgrims and Puritans onwards. But if you read of Mystery Babylon, in all the various descriptions of what Mystery Babylon is, you will find that Mystery Babylon is "A destroyer of mine heritage". Meaning that Mystery Babylon will begin a godly nation, founded on Judeo Christian prinipals, having a unique place of the nations, and then turn on its heritage.

And once again I will point out that New York state has the only other Babylon in the world outside of Iraq. It is a sign.

Mystery Babylon is:

-World Economic Capital
-Modern Day Babylon, complete with Tower of Babil
-Destroyer of its own heritage
-The center of another attempt at uniting mankind
-Has a woman as its symbol
-Drunk with the blood of the saints(WACO Texas and other Christians have been killed and under attack since the Clinton Presidency)
-Controls what could be a world government(Beast Empire)

What today forfills ALL of those requirements? Thats right, New York, America.

These things are not evidence alone, they are evidence added toghether

Ignoring the clear meaning of scripture and the clear evidence in front of you is why nobody can ever claim they know what the prophecies mean. If God gave you a clear, written message, would you argue and state "oh that just can't be because so and so is this? Would you disregard the message because whatever is written goes against something you love(love of country)? I tell you now to put aside your love of country, bury it even if it goes against the clear understanding of scripture. We are citizens of heaven, America, whether it be significant in scripture or not, is dust in the wind, yet another long line of nations that will fade from this earth in time.

[Resurrection Torchlight]

So you are saying that New York city is guilty of the blood of the saints and the prophets, even though the word of God itself says that Jerusalem is??

Ignoring the clear meaning of scripture and the clear evidence in front of you is why nobody can ever claim they know what the prophecies mean. If God gave you a clear, written message, would you argue and state "oh that just can't be because so and so is this? Would you disregard the message because whatever is written goes against something you love(love of country)?

Your words not mine.


By the way scripture never says that Babylon is a port city: what it does say is that Babylon will be an important world exporter of goods.

Revelation 18:11-19
11 “And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargoes any more—
12 cargoes of gold and silver and precious stones and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet, and every kind of citron wood and every article of ivory and every article made from very costly wood and bronze and iron and marble,
13 and cinnamon and spice and incense and perfume and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and cargoes of horses and chariots and slaves and human lives.
14 “The fruit you long for has gone from you, and all things that were luxurious and splendid have passed away from you and men will no longer find them.
15 “The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of the fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,
16 saying, ‘Woe, woe, the great city, she who was clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls;
17 for in one hour such great wealth has been laid waste!’ And every shipmaster and every passenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea, stood at a distance,
18 and were crying out as they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What city is like the great city?’
19 “And they threw dust on their heads and were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying, ‘Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had ships at sea became rich by her wealth, for in one hour she has been laid waste!’

Note how those who make their living by the sea, mourn at a distance. Now if you know your geography you know that Israel borders the Mediterranean Sea, and that Suez canal connects the Red Sea with the Mediterranean. Ashkelon, Ashdod, Hadera, and Haifa are all ports in Israel. Though Israel is not a major world exporter at present. It isn't a stretch to imagine that it one day could be, especially in light of a new economic system that is tied to a religious system based there. Also you will note the goods that are mentioned- Cinnamon for instance is a product we import not export, Ivory, frankincense, gold, citron, and silk are also goods we would primarily import from nations surrounding the Mediterranean sea.

I do agree that America has lost her way, but don't forget, that despite her downward slide, there are still many more true believers living here than in many places of the world.

But you and others are free to disagree, I guess that's just how I see it, perhaps I am wrong, it will all be sorted out in the end.

RT

[Sword of Geddon]

Jereusalem can't be Mystery Babylon because after Mystery Babylon is destroyed it is never inhabited again, a home for unclean creatures and demons. Jereusalem on the other hand is the world's capital after Christ returns.

That is why I'm saying it can't be Jereusalem. As for New York/America, there is still some things that have to happen to forfill all the requirements. That thing is being responsible for the blood of the saints and prophets.

This country has already targeted and killed Christians, under Clinton we had the WACO massacre(and I've heard the Kosovo action was an anti-christian attack as well), under Obama we have had the mocking of scripture, Obama's backing of a communist/muslim dictator and slaughtor of Kenyan christians, and various other police actions.

So it has started. America is the first country to approve Gay marriage, and also under Obama the first country to enforce "gay rights" on the rest of the world. There are many polls, such as gallup and others(I don't know if I trust polls to be honest though), which state that support for gay marriage is up, especially in people under 30 years of age. It is a sign this country is continuing its fall from grace.

How long before Christians who look to God and the word of God for their answers are branded enemies of the state and terrorists for refusing to compromise their views?

I'm not saying all this guys because I want america to die and fall, I'm saying it because I've seen a horrible moral trend, I notice things. If those polls are true I cannot see this country existing for many more years.

I've read that homosexuality is the final judgement on a nation or people that has rejected him, it seems that we are well on our way to destruction. The Church is failing to halt the spread of the corruption, as salt we are losing this struggle.

Perhaps it was meant to be?

[mrgravyard49]

All part of the ENDTIMES.. We can try hard but lets face it, Satan is pretty tough..

[Sword of Geddon]

All part of the ENDTIMES.. We can try hard but lets face it, Satan is pretty tough..

Maybe he is allowed to succeed because the time he will rule earth directly with the rest of his "unholy trinity" before Christ returns...

Anyone think we are about to enter the last of the last days? Literally enter them?

[kirthril]

Another thing about how MB is responsible for the blood of saints and how it might pertain to america, even though its not obvious:

How do we americans live compared to the rest of the world? In luxury.
Where do most of our things come from? Other countries.
Most people in these countries are what? Oppressed by ruthless governments
The US gives what annually to some of the worlds worst dictators? Billions of dollars
The US continually trades economically with some of the worlds what countries? Human rights abusers

China, north korea, places in africa, SE asia, and the middle east. Christians are being killed and persecuted on a daily basis in these areas, and those gov'ts are just sucking in all the cash coming from US taxpayers. This money keeps these villans in power and allows them to continually oppress the weak. We give billions in "aid" annually to North Korea. Where does the money/aid go? We trade a tremendous amount of wealth with Saudi Arabia (one of the most oppressive countries in the middle east) because they give us our oil.

Do we americans even think... for one second... that our money is causing misery for millions if not billions all over the world? No, we do not, and most of us don't care or are ignorant.

But from Gods point of view, are we not then responsible, partly at least, for the persecution of saints worldwide, since it is our money keeping these gov'ts in power. Especially when we do nothing to stop it. W/o our money these dictators and gov'ts collapse. W/o our money/aid NK goes down and perhaps gives the people a fighting chance, so does china, saudi arabia, palestine, afghanistan, pakistan,other african nations that are violent towards christians and their citizens. We prop up the united nations. But what has the UN done to prevent religious intolerance towards christians?...

nothing.
..............

not saying we are MB, just making a case as to why i think we are.

[Jericho]

The US gives what annually to some of the worlds worst dictators? Billions of dollars
The US continually trades economically with some of the worlds what countries? Human rights abusers

But from Gods point of view, are we not then responsible, partly at least, for the persecution of saints worldwide, since it is our money keeping these gov'ts in power. Especially when we do nothing to stop it. W/o our money these dictators and gov'ts collapse. W/o our money/aid NK goes down and perhaps gives the people a fighting chance, so does china, saudi arabia, palestine, afghanistan, pakistan,other african nations that are violent towards christians and their citizens. We prop up the united nations. But what has the UN done to prevent religious intolerance towards christians?...

On the flip side money does buy peace and stability in a region that is infamously unstable. For instance the money we poured into Egypt has kept the peace between Egypt and Israel (up until recently at least). Maybe a cold peace but peace none the less. Yes Mubarak was a dictator but he was our dictator. It was the fall of his government that opened the door for persecution of Christians in Egypt in the first place.

If we suddenly stopped the flow of money and let these dictators fall would another dictator rise in there place? Probably. Would it create even a worse situation like with Egypt? Good Possibility. So there is a danger in creating instability by going cold turkey. It's a matter of supporting the lesser of two evils in a region where dictators are the norm. Christians are in danger in these lands no matter whose in charge simply because they are the minority in a sea of Muslims, and we know how they feel about Jews and Christians.

Granted there is truth in what you say, we do waste billions of dollars on nations and organizations that hate our guts. And certainly more should be said and done to support our Christian brothers around the world.

[Resurrection Torchlight]

Jereusalem can't be Mystery Babylon because after Mystery Babylon is destroyed it is never inhabited again, a home for unclean creatures and demons. Jereusalem on the other hand is the world's capital after Christ returns.

Revelation 18:21
21 Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.

I agree this does appear to present a problem, however Zechariah tells us that the mount of Olives will be split in two and that the people will flee by the valley created. Is this the mechanics behind the passage in Rev 18?

Revelation 18:4-5
4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;
5 for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

Zechariah 14:4-8
4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.
5 You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!
6 In that day there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle.
7 For it will be a unique day which is known to the Lord, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light.
8 And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.

Also Revelation appears to back up Zechariah here, though it adds that there are two other "splits" in the city

Revelation 16:19
19 The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of His fierce wrath.

If the mount of Olives is split in two creating a valley toward Jerusalem, this great earthquake would likely destroy Jerusalem. And if the city is split three ways, essentially nothing would be left standing. This is mystery Babylon, being destroyed, it is the religious system; the temple that will have stood that the Antichrist will have seated himself in will likely perish. That Jerusalem will never be inhabited again. It will be completely leveled.

If you look carefully at the passages in the gospels that say that Jerusalem is guilty of the blood of the prophets, you will note that Jesus is directing His comments toward the scribes and pharisees, it is Jerusalem's religious leaders who are charged with their guilt. I think it will be the same when the abominations of the end times religious leaders will come to an end. The former Jerusalem will be leveled and a new Jerusalem will rise in place of the old city:

Zechariah 14:9-11
9 And the Lord will be king over all the earth; in that day the Lord will be the only one, and His name the only one.
10 All the land will be changed into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem; but Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site from Benjamin’s Gate as far as the place of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s wine presses.
11 People will live in it, and there will no longer be a curse, for Jerusalem will dwell in security.

Isaiah 2:2
2 Now it will come about that
In the last days
The mountain of the house of the Lord
Will be established as the chief of the mountains,
And will be raised above the hills;
And all the nations will stream to it.

Jeremiah 30:18
18 “Thus says the Lord,
‘Behold, I will restore the fortunes of the tents of Jacob
And have compassion on his dwelling places;
And the city will be rebuilt on its ruin,
And the palace will stand on its rightful place.

Revelation never says that the land called by mystery Babylon will never be inhabited again. The mystical name "Babylon" is given because of it's spiritual abominations against God. It is that system that will be removed, the city of people who defiled God's name will never again do so. It is their smoke that goes up forever: The harlot is the people, not the earth they stand on. It will just so happen however that this system of harlotry will be centered in a city, that city will be leveled by God and its inhabitants who played the harlot will be destroyed by God.

Revelation 14:9-11
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

RT

[GodsStudent]

Do we americans even think... for one second... that our money is causing misery for millions if not billions all over the world? No, we do not, and most of us don't care or are ignorant.

You know, there are a lot of us who do care and who are not ignorant, but.....honestly, what can everyday Americans do to interfere with this process? Obama's spokesperson, Valerie Jarret, said, just before he was inaugurated, that Obama was ready to RULE from day one. Hasn't this been the case for many years? I think a lot of Americans feel like me when elections roll around.....like we don't have anything to choose from. We, the people, are not our elected government, and have very little to do with who gets elected....we get a small choice to vote from, and then they make decisions that affect not only us, but the entire world.

I get pretty upset about all of the "hateful" bashing that seems to go on concerning America's citizens. We aren't in control. We don't have the power to set wrong to right, and we are overwhelmingly against things in polls that somehow gets put into law anyway. Look at the gay "rights" issue. Americans overwhelmingly vote against gay marriage, and yet, the states seem to pass it anyway....AGAINST THE WILL OF THE MAJORITY. I'm pretty sure if they did polls on taking God out of schools, public, etc, there would be an overwhelming vote AGAINST, but since when did the majority get representation?

[Resurrection Torchlight]

But from Gods point of view, are we not then responsible, partly at least, for the persecution of saints worldwide, since it is our money keeping these gov'ts in power. Especially when we do nothing to stop it. W/o our money these dictators and gov'ts collapse. W/o our money/aid NK goes down and perhaps gives the people a fighting chance, so does china, saudi arabia, palestine, afghanistan, pakistan,other african nations that are violent towards christians and their citizens. We prop up the united nations. But what has the UN done to prevent religious intolerance towards christians?...

we don't need to guess what God's point of view is, He has already told us in His word, Jerusalem or at least it's corrupted religious system is responsible. How can you argue with what He has plainly stated in His word?

Besides that, America is not alone in supporting corrupt regimes in the world. Do you really think that if America stopped sending foreign aid that these corrupt nations would stop being corrupted? I don't mean to sound harsh here, but America certainly does not stand alone in her corruption. I think perhaps we look at our own country a bit myopically, because we live here, we see its wrongs and live with the problems and sin going on, we forget that there is bad stuff happening all over the world. In the big picture other nations are just as bad or worse than we are.

RT

[Sword of Geddon]

The US has also spread false beliefs around the world, and is in fact the capital of false belief. The ideas of "tolerance" and other stables of the new age movement began here.

The last Babylon will resemble the first Babylon. New York city is the modern day Babylon. We need to stop looking to the future for all forfillment of prophecy, and start looking to the present.

When John saw Mystery Babylon in his visions, there was a reason it was called Babylon.

1. The first Babylon, was built by Nimrod/Gilgamesh, the great-grandson of Noah. Nimrod attempted and succeeded in destroying people's faith in the one true God. He also built the tower of Babel, as a monument to human unity.

What does New York City have in it? The United Nations, a modern day attempt at human unity. The UN sits on land donated by the Rockefeller family, who also pushed the League of Nations after World War One as an early attempt at World Government. The actual purpose of the UN is to unite mankind under one government, it has mostly failed in that respect, but many of the ideals, projects and goals of the UN have already come to pass. We have a world economy, controled by a world trade organization. We have international law, an international criminal court. The UN's longterm goal is to divide the world into ten regions, it is said that the European Union is the first successful integration of such a region, with North American being the next zone(An african union already exists as well).

If you remember, Javier Solona was a member of the globalist Club of Rome in the United Nations(Al Gore is another notable member).

The UN has attempted to gain more power, by treaties such as Copenhagen, which failed to pass. Copenhagen would have implemented a world government(it was in the written treaty) and taxed carbon footprints.

Over the years the main reason the UN has failed to acheive its goals has been the US veto. The US is one of the only obstacles to World government.

So just as the first Babylon was, so to will the last Babylon be.

The way the US is in world history and current events, leads one to one of two conclusions:

1. The US is mystery babylon, controling the beast.

or

2. The US is the restrainer, preventing the Beast from coming to power.

[mrgravyard49]

Boy this thread is way off..
It looks like the UN or a group are going to try and stop Assad and Russia isnt going to help Assad.. Wonder if this will start things with Iran??

[Resurrection Torchlight]

Boy this thread is way off..

yeah sorry about that



RT

[Exit40]

Iran Issues Threat to Oil Buyers in Europe
By RICK GLADSTONE and ALAN COWELL
Published: February 15, 2012

Besieged by international sanctions over the Iranian nuclear program including a planned oil embargo by Europe, Iran warned its six largest European buyers on Wednesday that it might strike first by immediately cutting them off from Iranian oil.

Iran’s official Islamic Republic News Agency said the warning was conveyed to the ambassadors of Italy, Spain, France, the Netherlands, Greece and Portugal in separate meetings at the Foreign Ministry in Tehran. Officials said an earlier report by Press TV, Iran’s state-financed satellite broadcaster, that Iran had already cut supplies to the six countries was inaccurate — but not before word of the Press TV report sent a brief shudder through the global oil market, sending prices up slightly.

“Iran warns Europe it will find other customers for its oil,” the Islamic Republic News Agency said. “European people should know that if Iran changes destinations of the oil it gives to them, the responsibility will rest with the European governments themselves.” ...

Continues

**** Article states the big nuclear event is the production there of a nuclear fuel rod which was inserted into a reactor in Teheran. D. ****

God Bless

David

[OneDay]

US officials believe Iran sanctions will fail, making military action likely
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/fe ... ary-action

Officials in key parts of the Obama administration are increasingly convinced that sanctions will not deter Tehran from pursuing its nuclear programme, and believe that the US will be left with no option but to launch an attack on Iran or watch Israel do so.

continues...

[OneDay]

Iran warships enter Mediterranean via Suez Canal
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17083791

Iranian warships have entered the Mediterranean Sea for only the second time since the 1979 revolution.

The destroyer Shahid Qandi and its supply vessel Kharg have passed through the Suez Canal but their destination remains unclear.

Navy chief Admiral Habibollah Sayari told the Irna agency the mission was a show of might and a "message of peace".

Two Iranian navy vessels entered the Mediterranean in February last year. Israel called it a "provocation".

continues...

[OneDay]

Hamas, insurgents basing SAMs in Sinai for attacks on Israel
http://www.worldnewstribune.com/2012/02 ... on-israel/

WASHINGTON — Islamic insurgents have deployed surface-to-air missiles in Egypt’s Sinai
Peninsula for attacks on Israel, a report
said.

The Washington Institute for Near East Policy said Hamas has joined with
Bedouin insurgents to establish Sinai as a venue for SAM attacks on Israeli
civilian and military aircraft. In a report, the institute said the
insurgency network was believed to have acquired a range of Russian-origin
air defense systems.

continues...

[clang]

This really could be it folks. Keep praying and put on your full armor.

[OneDay]

Looking at today’s geopolitical landscape, it’s not difficult to envision the scenario outlined in Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83.
Syria’s rocket technology is far more advanced than that deployed by Hezbollah, and Syria is known to possess chemical weapons, including the highly lethal VX and Sarin gases. If Syria miscalculates and attacks Israel with these weapons, the Israeli response will be swift and devastating. Israel is armed with nuclear weapons, and if its survival is put in question, it will not hesitate to use them. If this happens, a mortally wounded Israel will become an irresistible target for her enemies. The surrounding Muslim nations will see an opportunity to destroy her, while Russia will see an opportunity to seize the upper hand in the oil rich Middle East. Today, the most virulent enemies of Israel reside in the very places named in Psalm 83 – Hamas in Gaza, the Palestinians in the West Bank and Jordan, Hezbollah in Lebanon, and the Syria leadership and its Axis of Evil partners in the city of Damascus.
This is what God revealed to the prophet Isaiah:

“This message came to me concerning Damascus: ‘Look, Damascus will disappear! It will become a heap of ruins. The cities of Aroer will be deserted. Sheep will graze in the streets and lie down unafraid. There will be no one to chase them away. The fortified cities of Israel will also be destroyed, and the power of Damascus will end. The few left in Aram will share the fate of Israel’s departed glory,’ says the Lord Almighty.” Isaiah 17:1-3 (NLT)
These opening verses paint a bleak picture. The city of Damascus will become a heap of ruins, utterly destroyed. Few, if any, buildings will be left standing. The once great city will be devoid of human life and will become home to all manner of wildlife in the absence of humans to chase them away.

According to these verses, the cities of Aroer, which are located on the northern bank of the Arnon River just east of the Dead Sea, will also be deserted. However, the passage doesn’t say they will be destroyed in the same manner as Damascus, just that they will be deserted. It may be that people simply flee these cities out of fear.

In addition, many of the fortified cities in northern Israel will also be destroyed. Those few who remain in Aram, 38 miles south southeast of Damascus, will share the fate of these northern Israeli cities.

“‘In that day the glory of Israel will be very dim, for poverty will stalk the land. Israel will be abandoned like the grain fields in the valley of Rephaim after the harvest. Only a few of its people will be left, like the stray olives left on the tree after the harvest. Only two or three remain in the highest branches, four or five out on the tips of the limbs. Yes, Israel will be stripped bare of people,’ says the Lord, the God of Israel.” Isaiah 17:4-6 (NLT)
“Look! The armies rush forward like waves thundering toward the shore. But though they roar like breakers on a beach, God will silence them. They will flee like chaff scattered by the wind or like dust whirling before a storm. In the evening Israel waits in terror, but by dawn its enemies are dead. This is the just reward of those who plunder and destroy the people of God.” Isaiah 17:12-14 (NLT)

While Syria and Israel lie in ruin, the enemies of Israel will view her suffering as an opportunity to invade, their ultimate goal to destroy her forever. However, God has a different plan in mind, and He will destroy these invaders Himself. A more in depth illustration of this attack is foreseen in Psalm 83:
“O God, don’t sit idly by, silent and inactive! Don’t you hear the tumult of your enemies? Don’t you see what your arrogant enemies are doing? They devise crafty schemes against your people, laying plans against your precious ones. ‘Come,’ they say, ‘let us wipe out Israel as a nation. We will destroy the very memory of its existence.’ This was their unanimous decision. They signed a treaty as allies against you – these Edomites and Ishmaelites, Moabites and Hagrites, Gebalites, Ammonites, and Amalekites, and people from Philistia and Tyre. Assyria has joined them, too, and is allied with the descendants of Lot. Do to them as you did to the Midianites or as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the Kishon River. They were destroyed at Endor, and their decaying corpses fertilized the soil. Let their mighty nobles die as Oreb and Zeeb did. Let all their princes die like Zebah and Zalmunna, for they said, ‘Let us seize for our own use these pasturelands of God!’ O my God, blow them away like whirling dust, like chaff before the wind! As a fire roars through a forest and as a flame sets mountains ablaze, chase them with your fierce storms; terrify them with your tempests. Utterly disgrace them until they submit to your name, O Lord. Let them be ashamed and terrified forever. Make them failures in everything they do, until they learn that you alone are called the Lord, that you alone are the Most High, supreme over all the earth.” Psalm 83 (NLT)
Taken from -http://raptureready.com/featured/gillette/Isaiah_17.html

[OneDay]

This show is very interesting!
http://www.olivetreeviews.org/radio/mp3/
February 18, 2012 - Hour 1
Jan's guest is Dr. Mark Hitchcock, scholar, pastor, and author on prophecy and Middle East-related issues. They discuss America's role in the Middle East and prophecy, the Arab spring, The Psalm 83 war, the Isaiah 17 passage, Gog and Magog, and much, much more. There is a coming conflict in the Middle East that is imminent. Iran is striking out at Israel and Israel may be launching strikes against Iranian scientists within Iran. Where is this leading? When might this culminate in a catastrophe? And the wild card is what role America will play. We include an online bonus audio of 25 extra minutes for this program, above and beyond our radio broadcast. See below. To find Mark's book, go here. Mark is one of our "Understanding the Times 2012" speakers. To learn more, visit www.marklhitchcock.com Find our on line bonus audio in Hour 2 with Jan Markell and Dr Mark Hitchcock.
Size
13.05 MB
February 18, 2012 - Hour 2
This is our online audio bonus that is a continuation of the discussion with Dr Mark Hitchcock. This portion of the interview was not heard on radio and is an extra bonus for our online listeners.

[mrgravyard49]

Tomarrow is a NEW Moon, most likely nothing happens because its to cold over there right now.. But Im thinking something within 100 days..

[good4u1]

I too am coming late to this thread...but I was watching "Megan Kelly" show today and she had a serious segment with two retired military analysts and they both said it was necessary that military action be taken as economic sanctions were not severe enough and too late to be truly effective now. And since the Obama Admn is not taken seriously by Iran (and frankly, who can blame them?) it appears Israel now has the window of opportunity to attempt the military option this Spring. They feel Israel will in all likelihood would use the military option as politically it would be favorable for a variety of reasons which the analysts recounted.

Iran knows this and are doubling their efforts to complete their nuclear program...a confrontation is inevitable now....expect the gas prices to reach $4 this Spring before the end of May.

[mrgravyard49]

$4 by the end of May?? Did you see ABC news? Its over $4 now in calf... When Israel hits Iran,, $10.. OUCH!

[good4u1]

I'm sure it is...but California is not what I was talking about...I was talking about a national average.

[mrgravyard49]

$3.66 avg here in Sarasota fla..


oh I cant help it - If Bush was still in office,, OH the Screaming "We have an Oil Man in our WH"!!!

[clang]

$3.66 avg here in Sarasota fla..


oh I cant help it - If Bush was still in office,, OH the Screaming "We have an Oil Man in our WH"!!!

I agree with you about Obama but we should not forget that oil prices rose to over $4 when Bush was president too.

[mrgravyard49]

Hum,, A New Moon March 22ed... Same day as the Earthquake people say is on the way.. Hum Somewhat interesting..

[OneDay]

Iran: Pre-emptive strike against enemies possible
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-573 ... -possible/
(CBS/AP)

A senior Iranian military commander signaled the Islamic Republic might launch a pre-emptive strike against its "enemies" if the nation's leaders felt an attack on Iran was imminent, providing another example of ever-escalating tensions between Tehran and the West over its nuclear program.

In a clear shot across the bow, the deputy head of Iran's armed forces, Mohammad Hejazi, told state media on Tuesday: "Our strategy now is that if we feel our enemies want to endanger Iran's national interests, and want to decide to do that, we will act without waiting for their actions," according to the Reuters news agency.

Hejazi's comments come as another Iranian official said that a U.N. team visiting Iran has no plans to inspect the country's nuclear facilities and will only hold talks with officials in Tehran.

The remarks by Ramin Mehmanparast cast doubt on how much the U.N. inspectors would be able to gauge whether Iran is moving ahead with its suspected pursuit of nuclear weapons.
continues...

[Reverend R.G. Myers]

As bad as this all sounds, remember it is Gods plan and his will that all this must transpire. What is to come will be disasterous and painful for all who are involved, but remember that our Lord loves us and will watch over us in this terrible time of trouble.

[good4u1]

Reverend, do we sound worried...well, we are and there is every reason to be...yes, God knows exactly how this will play out and as painful as this will be it just means we are closer to the end of this evil age and the dark clouds of uncertainty are gathering and this Spring will be just the beginning of it. Oh, how I dread it...

[HindsFeet]

I've felt fear over the last few months..yet, when I realize that the God of the Universe is in charge, it helps. I think of all the great real stories of the Old Testament and try to imagine what Noah or Moses or Job felt like -- and I realize that God led them through and He will do the same for me and all of us who Love Him!

[Resurrection Torchlight]

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/227867.html

Iran army holding air defense drills near Persian Gulf

ran’s Khatam al-Anbia Air Defense Base started the four-day exercises codenamed Tharallah on Monday within an area of 190,000 square kilometers in southern Iran, with the key objective of boosting the country’s air defense near the Persian Gulf and the nation’s Bushehr nuclear power plant.

During the military drills slated in four tactical phases, the Iranian army will test and assess the operation of its surface-to-air and radar equipment, and will collect new data on the procedures.

cont'd at link....

tharallah by the way means the blood of Allah, from what I can tell this blood is specifically referring to the blood of the (Muslim) martyrs.

RT

[Exit40]

UN nuclear agency says Iran blocked attempts to probe alleged atomic arms work in Tehran talks
By Associated Press, Updated: Wednesday, February 22, 3:42 AM

VIENNA — The U.N. nuclear agency acknowledged renewed failure Wednesday after a trip to probe suspicions of covert Iranian nuclear weapons work, in a statement issued just hours after an Iranian general warned of a pre-emptive strike against any foe threatening the country.

The double signs of defiance reflected Tehran’s continued resistance to demands that it defuse suspicions about its nuclear activities despite a growing list of international sanctions.

The International Atomic Energy Agency made little progress in talks that ended just three weeks ago, and hopes had been low that a visit by IAEA experts to Iran that ended late Tuesday would be any more successful even before the agency issued its statement.

It was issued early Wednesday, shortly after midnight and just after the IAEA experts left Tehran, reflecting the agency’s urgent wish to tell its side of the story.....

Continues

God Bless

David

[mrgravyard49]

So now what will be the worlds AND Obama excuse????????? I,ll be surprised if Israel doesnt attack before April...

[Resurrection Torchlight]

Watched the CNN presidential candidate debate last night all but Ron Paul said that they would act preemptively against Iran so that they wouldn't obtain a nuclear weapon. Don't know how that correlates in congress and whether or not there is a real will in Washington to do so. Time will tell I guess...

RT

[GodsStudent]

http://www.boston.com/business/articles ... pean_cuts/

Iran is really coming on stronger and stronger these days. I remembered hearing a few days back that Iran had cut it's exports to some places in Europe ahead of Europe's decision to stop receiving oil later this year (didn't they say they would stop importing oil from Iran in around June/July?).

This article confirms Iran did respond immediately to Europe's threats.

It could be another year of a "word wars," and honestly, though it's stressful, I'd prefer that. I don't look forward to the carnage that is coming on this earth, nor am I encouraged that so many around me are still among the lost. The escalation of birth pangs is evident over the course of the last few years, and I know all too well that we are fast approaching a time when the wheat and tares will be divided. I just want to see much more wheat than we are seeing right now, and wish for time and events, as God see's fit, to happen on a personal level, and with more people, in order that they stop in their tracks and begin to question where they have never questioned before. God's timing is perfect, though, and He will allow what He will allow, we will continue to see things unfold on His timeline.

[OneDay]

Formerly secret telexes offer window into Iran’s nuclear deceit
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... print.html

By Joby Warrick, Published: February 22 | Updated: Thursday, February 23, 6:59 AM

The reason for the unusual purchase — 220 pounds of highly caustic fluorine gas — was never explained, but someone at Iran’s Sharif University was clearly anxious to collect. For months, the mysterious buyer bombarded a British supply company with telexes, demanding to know when his 45 canisters would arrive.

“We have not received your reply,” complained one telex, sent from the Tehran school’s purchasing department and written partly in broken English. “We are awaiting for hearing from you as soon as possible.”

But the telex, sent in 1992 and made public here for the first time, was not what it seemed. The real purchaser was not a university but a secretive research institute working for Iran’s military. The fluorine gas, investigators later concluded, was to be blended with uranium in a nuclear program that would remain hidden for 10 more years.

The document is part a trove of 1,600 formerly secret telexes obtained by nuclear researchers seeking to unearth the early history of Iran’s clandestine pursuit of nuclear technology. While nearly two decades old, the records offer an unusually detailed glimpse into Iran’s alleged efforts to defy sanctions to obtain sensitive technology — tactics that intelligence officials say continue even now.

continues...
What a Shock...

[OneDay]

Russia warns against 'hasty conclusions' over Iran

By GEORGE JAHN
Associated Press
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/ ... 2-17-22-55
VIENNA (AP) -- Russia said Wednesday the world should not draw "hasty conclusions" over Iran's most recent rebuff of U.N. attempts to investigate allegations the Islamic Republic hid secret work on atomic arms, but the U.S. and its allies accused Tehran of nuclear defiance.

Under international pressure to show restraint, Israel, which has warned repeatedly that it may strike Iran's nuclear facilities, pointedly urged major world powers to mind their own business, saying it alone would decide what to do to protect the Jewish state's security.
skip
Iran insists it is using nuclear energy only to generate power, and Khamenei proclaimed Wednesday that possession of atomic arms is a sin as well as "useless, harmful and dangerous." Iran asserts that the allegations of secret work on developing nuclear arms are based on fabricated U.S. and Israeli intelligence.

But in a 13-page summary late last year, the IAEA listed clandestine activities that he said can either be used in civilian or military nuclear programs, or "are specific to nuclear weapons."

Among these were indications that Iran has conducted high-explosives testing to set off a nuclear charge at Parchin.

Other suspicions include computer modeling of a core of a nuclear warhead and alleged preparatory work for a nuclear weapons test and development of a nuclear payload for Iran's Shahab 3 intermediate range missile - a weapon that could reach Israel.

[T-Minus?]

Another issue not discussed much is a delivery system that could reach the U.S. . The naysayers are wrong. Iran has recently launched a satellite into orbit. Such technology is an ICBM. Also, they can station rockets in Venezuela or in cargo ships off our coasts. The threat is real. Maranatha!!

[OneDay]

Yes, it's true. Just like Babylon of old, we are asleep...

[OneDay]

Firestorm Forecast: 'Syria can set region ablaze'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pugqFPTghSg

[Exit40]

What is really happening in Iran?
Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei may control the nuclear programme, but he lacks a critical mass of Iranians.
Last Modified: 26 Feb 2012 15:43

Hong Kong - The supreme war-or-peace question regarding the Iran psychodrama has got to be: What game is Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei really playing? Sharp wits among the lively Iranian global diaspora maintain that the Supreme Leader is the perfect US/Israel asset - as he incarnates Iran as "the enemy" (although in most cases in a much less strident way than Ahmadinejad).

In parallel, the military dictatorship of the mullahtariat in Tehran also needs "the enemy" - as in "the Great Satan" and assorted Zionists - to justify its monopoly of power. The ultimate loser, voices of the diaspora sustain, is true Iranian democracy - as in the foundation for the country's ability to resist empire. Especially now, after the immensely dodgy 2009 presidential election and the repression of the Green movement. Even former supporters swear the Islamic Republic is now neither a "republic" - nor "Islamic".

For their part, another current of informed Iranian - and Western - critics of empire swear that the belligerent Likud-majority government of Israel is in fact the perfect Iranian asset. After all, Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu and former Moldova bouncer turned Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman's non-stop warmongering tends to rally Iranians of all persuasions - always proudly nationalistic - behind the flag. The absolute majority of Iranians knows and feels they are targeted by a heavily weaponised foreign power - US/Israel. The leadership in Tehran has been wily enough to instrumentalise this foreign threat, and at the same time further smash the Green movement....

Continues

God Bless

David

[Reverend R.G. Myers]

It is in my humble opinion that Iran wants Israel to attack them. This would insite the Muslim community to be even more against Israel and the West. Though Iran states that it would do a pre-emptive strike if they thought they were going to be attacked, I view this as rhetoric and a ploy on Irans part.

[OneDay]

YES!!! I personally think that Syria will be used as a ploy to get Israel to attack, then...well, we all know what happens next...

[OneDay]

IAEA report: Uranium missing from Iran research facility

Special to WorldTribune.com
http://www.worldnewstribune.com/2012/02 ... -facility/
LONDON — The International Atomic Energy Agency has raised the
prospect that Iran transferred uranium to the military for weapons
development.

In a report, IAEA said uranium metal has gone missing from a research
facility in Teheran. The United Nations agency said Iran has not provided an
explanation.
continues...

[GodsStudent]

IAEA report: Uranium missing from Iran research facility

Special to WorldTribune.com
http://www.worldnewstribune.com/2012/02 ... -facility/
LONDON — The International Atomic Energy Agency has raised the
prospect that Iran transferred uranium to the military for weapons
development.

In a report, IAEA said uranium metal has gone missing from a research
facility in Teheran. The United Nations agency said Iran has not provided an
explanation.
continues...

Nor, IMO, will they provide an explanation. They want everyone up in arms, and they provoke discord every chance they get.

[Exit40]

Wikileaks: Israel destroyed Iran’s nuclear program last year
Millions of emails by analysts at US intelligence company Stratfor are published, with claims that Israelis and Kurds covertly attacked Iran
By Raphael Ahren February 27, 2012, 11:26 am 15

Israeli agents collaborating with Kurdish operatives destroyed Iran’s nuclear infrastructure last year, according to an unnamed Israeli intelligence source cited in communiques between intelligence analysts uncovered by Wikileaks on Monday.

The leaked emails also contain assessments that Europeans want a military strike against Tehran to divert attention from the euro crisis and that Henry Kissinger believes a panicking Israel will indeed attack the Islamic regime.

Under the headline “The Global Intelligence Files,” the whistleblower website Wikileaks on Monday published more than five million emails by analysts belonging to the Texas-based intelligence company Stratfor between July 2004 and December 2011. Stratfor, which calls itself a “provider of geopolitical analysis,” is believed to provide intelligence to corporations and government agencies, such as the US Department of Homeland Security and the US Defense Intelligence Agency....

Continues

God Bless

David