War with Iran

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Re: War with Iran

Postby Sword of Geddon on Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:26 pm

Obama has said that he is making the destruction of Israel his stated goal for his second term, if he is reelected. If that occurs..what does that make America?

There was a headline I saw awile ago when Obama mistreated Bebi, it said "It was almost as if it was a showdown between the King of the World and the king of Israel."

I don't know if Obama is THE antichrist, but he sure acts like it...
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding." Proverbs 3:5
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Re: War with Iran

Postby xdrifter on Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:39 pm

Resurrection Torchlight wrote:
I think people have to recognize what the United States represents in the eyes of God, what adultery means in a spiritual and national sense, and not allow ones love of country to cloud their minds from seeing the truth.


The United States was never nationally considered God's people, though many Christians and so called Christians do live here. Don't forget that Europe also had and has many so-called Christians, Africa as well, we tend to look at prophetic scriptures in light of our current circumstances, but many countries today could spiritually be considered to be like harlots in God's eyes, spiritually speaking, America is but one of many. It is not what we think could fit with prophecy, but what does scripture actually say? How does the word of God define who acted as a harlot? Scriptures do call other cities a harlot, Nineveh for instance and Tyre, but only one city that was ever called a harlot by God, and a mother of harlots fits with all the criteria in Revelation, and that is Jerusalem.

But as for the topic of this thread- it certainly does seem that a lot of saber rattling is going on, though this has been the case for many years now, time will tell what comes of it, something will happen eventually. I feel for those Iranians suffering because of their leaders and because of the sanctions. I pray that God will raise up witnesses for Christ among them and that many as a result will be saved.


RT



1. Does God have other Nations, aside from Israel whom He considers His? if so, what are the characteristics that define those Nations as such?

Jer 12:15 But later, I will have pity on these nations and bring them back to their own lands.

Jer 12:16 They once taught my people to worship Baal. But if they admit I am the only true God, and if they let my people teach them how to worship me, these nations will also become my people.

Jer 12:17 However, if they don't listen to me, I will uproot them from their lands and completely destroy them. I, the LORD, have spoken.

1. Yes, God has other Nations He considers his own aside from Israel, they are defined as such because they admit God is the only true God, and they let Gods people teach them how to worship Him.


2. Have Africa, or Europe ever matched this description of a Godly Nation? Nationally have they ever taught their people the God of Abraham is the only true God. Have they let Gods people teach them how to worship Him?

2. No


3. Has America a history of teaching her people the God of the Scriptures is the one and only true God, has America taught her people to worship Him.

3. Americas classical literature is ripe with a History that says YES, not only were many of Americas founding fathers Christian men but if you study the history of the Battles that brought America from its infancy up to being the giant it is today, you can see Godly men, and Gods hand in every one of them just as it was with David during Israels infancy.

At one point respected philosophers were sent to America from Europe in order to study her culture to find out what the source of her greatness was, their finding was that it was the faith of her peoples in God! there was a Bible in every post office, and public school; this fear and reverence towards God on a National level translated into what was for the most part a morally upright people, which fueled a successful economy, social system, and military that no Government excluding God and the Bible could ever hope to establish. These were the findings of non-believers!

Even in the history of America's battles, one can see Gods hand on these people just as it was with David. I think back to George Washington, and the account of a well known Indian Chief who fought with the English, He stated he had placed his best marksmen on George Washington knowing full well killing him would be like cutting the head off of a snake. George was an easy enough target, as He was often mounted on a horse! and even though George had so much of the enemies fire focused on him, and although his coat, and hat would be riddled with bullet holes, George was never killed.

Study the details of every pivotal moment in every War that distinguishes America and grants her the prestige she has come to know today, from the Declaration of Independence, up to Pearl Harbor and then read the books of Samuel and Kings in the Old Testament and you will begin to recognize the same mighty Hand at work!

To my knowledge this mighty hand, has not done such an amazing thing with an entire Nation as it did with Gods people in Israel, through out the ages; until America.

As far as your list of Scriptures where you rattled off every verse in the Bible that refers to Harlots, the difference with the Harlot Babylon which we are speaking of is that it exists, and is destroyed, right before the Mark of the Beast is introduced; which makes it highly relevant and interesting to watchers of Bible Prophecy who believe we are approaching the fulfillment's of such.

If America is not Babylon, who do you suppose is?


Please see the description posted by OneDay and let us know how you interpret it.
"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamour and opposition." Sir Isaac Newton, 1642-1727

Remember me affectionately to good Dr. Price and to the honest heretic Dr. Priestly. I do not call him honest by way of distinction; for I think all the heretics I have known have been virtuous men. They have the virtue of fortitude or they would not venture to own their heresy; and they cannot afford to be deficient in any of the other virtues, as that would give advantage to their many enemies; and they have not like orthodox sinners, such a number of friends to excuse or justify them. Do not, however mistake me. It is not to my good friend's heresy that I impute his honesty. On the contrary, 'tis his honesty that has brought upon him the character of heretic.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby xdrifter on Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:57 pm

Tevye wrote:
Sword of Geddon wrote:-A city that sits on many waters.


"The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues."


The "waters" are not bodies of water they are figurative of what is seen above.
America is one nation, so it doesn't fit as Mystery Babylon.

Mystery Babylon sits upon, as noted in the verse above, nations
giving us the indication that it is made up of multiple nations.

"...the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth."

The harlot is the city, whose influence goes out to many kingdoms/nations.
The city itself as a location does not spread out upon them geographically
it is her abominations that have made the nations drunk with her adultery.

Sword of Geddon wrote:How can you ignore the evidence?

Because the connections are similar in some cases
but America does not fit ALL of the prophecies concerning Mystery Babylon.

Five of her kings existed prior to the Revelation given to the Apostle.
(long before America was ever a dream of being a nation)
One existed during his time (the 6th empire), one was yet to come (7th)
and the the 8th king (and empire that is of the the 7 or made up of all 7)
will be the beast who will bring all of the peoples and nations who
throughout all the years were affiliated with Mystery Babylon
together under 10 kings who will give him all their authority
he will in turn turn against the faith of his fathers
and establish a world order for himself
and cause all to take an allegiance to him alone as god.

We must notice how there are many in America who live
under the grace and mercy of the Almighty, Jehovah
and give Him glory for the faithful remnant to Christ who are here.
He will use America when the time arrives for us to be there for Israel.

Consider the nations who surround Israel who are not under God's grace.
Who are calling for Israel's demise. They fit the descriptions of Revelation
and they also fit as the people of Old Testament prophecy.
Such as seen in Habakkuk:

Then the Lord answered me and said:

"Write the vision and make it plain on tablets,
That he may run who reads it.
For the vision is yet for an appointed time;
But at the end it will speak, and it will not lie.
Though it tarries, wait for it;
Because it will surely come, It will not tarry."
Habakkuk 2

"Look among the nations and watch be utterly astounded!
For I will work a work in your days Which you would not believe,
though it were told you.

For indeed I am raising up the Chaldeans,
A bitter and hasty nation
Which marches through the breadth of the earth,
To possess dwelling places that are not theirs.
They are terrible and dreadful;"
Habakkuk 1

The Chaldeans possesed the land of the Assyrians in western Iran.
It was located in a portion of the old Babylonian empire.

Iran would be a nation that is bitter and hasty especially
in their call for the destruction of Israel as a nation.

Iran's religion fits as being against and in place of faith in Jehovah.
It is why they are so set on eliminating or chasing after the woman Israel.
Just as their father the dragon will actively do when the appointed time comes.

America has it's troubles but is for the existence of Israel and is firm in that position.
Right now it seems to be on shaky ground, but when the time comes
there are so many more here that are for her, than are against her.
Now once Israel is safe in the wilderness that is prepared for her preservation
the story may change, and things may no longer be what they once were before...



Tevye, I am curious are you a Preterist?
"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamour and opposition." Sir Isaac Newton, 1642-1727

Remember me affectionately to good Dr. Price and to the honest heretic Dr. Priestly. I do not call him honest by way of distinction; for I think all the heretics I have known have been virtuous men. They have the virtue of fortitude or they would not venture to own their heresy; and they cannot afford to be deficient in any of the other virtues, as that would give advantage to their many enemies; and they have not like orthodox sinners, such a number of friends to excuse or justify them. Do not, however mistake me. It is not to my good friend's heresy that I impute his honesty. On the contrary, 'tis his honesty that has brought upon him the character of heretic.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Tevye on Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:03 pm

xdrifter wrote:Tevye, I am curious are you a Preterist?

"Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets prophecies of the Bible,
especially Daniel and Revelation, as events which have already happened."

According to the above description I would say no.
I hold fast to the perspectives described below:

"Premillennialism in Christian end-times theology is the belief that Jesus will
literally and physically be on the earth for his millennial reign, at his second coming."

The view that I believe is the most acurate with the timing
and the events that will preceed the appearing of the Lord
is the Pre-Wrath Rapture view.
There are some points in this view that I do differ
in my perspective from, but only a few very minor ones.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby OneDay on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:13 pm

At one point respected philosophers were sent to America from Europe in order to study her culture to find out what the source of her greatness was, their finding was that it was the faith of her peoples in God! there was a Bible in every post office, and public school; this fear and reverence towards God on a National level translated into what was for the most part a morally upright people, which fueled a successful economy, social system, and military that no Government excluding God and the Bible could ever hope to establish. These were the findings of non-believers![/quote
:cry: Oh how far we have fallen!


This is an awesome discussion! God Bless You All!

I just wonder...
Is Iran Trying to Develop a Missile That Could Reach America?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/46250139
Is Iran trying to develop a missile that could reach the "Great Satan"?
The missile under construction at an Iranian research-and-development facility, which was damaged by a mysterious explosion in November, was a long-range missile prototype with a range of 6,000 miles—enough to hit the United States, a senior Israeli official said Thursday in a speech to a defense and security forum.

At the time of the November 12 explosion at a facility some 30 miles outside Tehran, Iranian officials insisted that the suspicious blast was an accident. It occurred, they said, during experimentation on a medium-range missile—one capable of reaching Israel.

But on Thursday, Moshe Yaalon, Israel’s vice prime minister and minister of strategic affairs, said in a speech outside Tel Aviv that the missile under development actually had a range closer to 6,000 miles.
skip...
Yaalon said in his speech that the West does not yet realize how much of a threat is posed by Iran, which he called “a nightmare for the free world.” In reality, he said, Israel in the Iranian regime’s eyes is only the “little Satan,” while America, as leader of the West, is “the larger Satan.”


I
Exalt the Lord our God and worship at His holy mountain, for the Lord our God is holy.
Psalm 99:9
http://www.acwitness.org/psalm83english.html
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Re: War with Iran

Postby OneDay on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:29 pm

America has it's troubles but is for the existence of Israel and is firm in that position.
Right now it seems to be on shaky ground, but when the time comes
there are so many more here that are for her, than are against her.

Now once Israel is safe in the wilderness that is prepared for her preservation
the story may change, and things may no longer be what they once were before...


Hmmmmmm, I just wonder... antisemitism is on the rise, even here.
If push came to shove, would this admin. move for Israel, considering how Obama has treated "Bibi"?

But, the Lord knows the heart of this nation. He will act accordingly :
Daniel 5:
25 “Now this is the inscription that was written out: ‘[aa]MENĒ, [ab]MENĒ, [ac]TEKĒL, [ad]UPHARSIN.’ 26 This is the interpretation of the [ae]message: ‘MENĒ’—God has numbered your kingdom and put an end to it. 27 ‘TEKĒL’—you have been weighed on the scales and found deficient. 28 ‘PERĒS’—your kingdom has been divided and given over to the Medes and [af]Persians.”

I just wonder...
Exalt the Lord our God and worship at His holy mountain, for the Lord our God is holy.
Psalm 99:9
http://www.acwitness.org/psalm83english.html
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Re: War with Iran

Postby xdrifter on Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:00 am

Tevye wrote:
xdrifter wrote:Tevye, I am curious are you a Preterist?

"Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets prophecies of the Bible,
especially Daniel and Revelation, as events which have already happened."

According to the above description I would say no.
I hold fast to the perspectives described below:
[/color]


Thanks Tevye, just wanted to make sure you were not a Preterist because I have discussed Scriptures with them before and have never met anyone as well versed in history, or as intelligent as the Preterists I have spoken with. Problem is they have a very perverted interpretation of the Bible. I long ago decided I would not waste time discussing the Word of God with Preterists because I believe it is what God intended to warn us of when he said not to cast our pearls among swine.

I hope if I say anything on this forum, which is not in line with what others believe is sound doctrine, they will call me out on it; I believe this sort of accountability is one of the greatest responsibilities of the Church (body of Christ on Earth)

In reading your post I noticed you had said something I tend to hear a lot from those who do not believe America is End Time Babylon.

We must notice how there are many in America who live
under the grace and mercy of the Almighty, Jehovah

and give Him glory for the faithful remnant to Christ who are here.
He will use America when the time arrives for us to be there for Israel.



1. Can a "remnant" of Gods people, or even "many" righteous men and women who live under the grace of God deter Gods judgement on a Nation?

2. Do the Holy Scriptures support the notion that there are "many" of Gods people, who will be considered Faithful and Justified at His second coming.


3. Has God punished Nations of His own people in the past; in spite of the fact He had faithful living there at the time?

1.

Eze 14:13 Ezekiel, son of man, suppose an entire nation sins against me, and I punish it by destroying the crops and letting its people and livestock starve to death.

Eze 14:14 Even if Noah, Daniel, and Job were living in that nation, their faithfulness would not save anyone but themselves.

Eze 14:15 Or suppose I punish a nation by sending wild animals to eat people and scare away every passerby, so that the land becomes a barren desert.

Eze 14:16 As surely as I live, I promise that even if these three men lived in that nation, their own children would not be spared. The three men would live, but the land would be an empty desert.

Eze 14:17 Or suppose I send an enemy to attack a sinful nation and kill its people and livestock.

Eze 14:18 If these three men were in that nation when I punished it, not even their children would be spared. Only the three men would live.

Eze 14:19 And suppose I am so angry that I send a deadly disease to wipe out the people and livestock of a sinful nation.

Eze 14:20 Again, even if Noah, Daniel, and Job were living there, I, the LORD, promise that the children of these faithful men would also die. Only the three of them would be spared.


3.

Eze 14:21 I am the LORD God, and I promise to punish Jerusalem severely. I will send war, starvation, wild animals, and deadly disease to slaughter its people and livestock.

Eze 14:22 And those who survive will be taken from their country and led here to Babylonia. Ezekiel, when you see how sinful they are, you will know why I did all these things to Jerusalem
.


Eze 14:23 You will be convinced that I, the LORD God, was right in doing what I did.

2.

Matthew 7:13-15

King James Version (KJV)

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 20:16
So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.


1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Virgins represent believers


2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

Oil represents the source of the Light, the Lamp represents a vessel for that Light.

4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.


The Bridegroom represents Christ Jesus our Lord

6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.


See also verse 14-46 for more examples of what separates the many called, from the Chosen Few.
"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamour and opposition." Sir Isaac Newton, 1642-1727

Remember me affectionately to good Dr. Price and to the honest heretic Dr. Priestly. I do not call him honest by way of distinction; for I think all the heretics I have known have been virtuous men. They have the virtue of fortitude or they would not venture to own their heresy; and they cannot afford to be deficient in any of the other virtues, as that would give advantage to their many enemies; and they have not like orthodox sinners, such a number of friends to excuse or justify them. Do not, however mistake me. It is not to my good friend's heresy that I impute his honesty. On the contrary, 'tis his honesty that has brought upon him the character of heretic.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby xdrifter on Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:53 am

xdrifter wrote:
Tevye wrote:
Sword of Geddon wrote:-A city that sits on many waters.


"The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues."


The "waters" are not bodies of water they are figurative of what is seen above.
America is one nation, so it doesn't fit as Mystery Babylon.

Mystery Babylon sits upon, as noted in the verse above, nations
giving us the indication that it is made up of multiple nations.

"...the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth."

The harlot is the city, whose influence goes out to many kingdoms/nations.
The city itself as a location does not spread out upon them geographically
it is her abominations that have made the nations drunk with her adultery.

Sword of Geddon wrote:How can you ignore the evidence?

Because the connections are similar in some cases
but America does not fit ALL of the prophecies concerning Mystery Babylon.



1. Are the Bodies of water only figurative?

1: No, because of

Revelation 17

1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:




2. What about the verse 15? peoples, multitudes, and nations, and tongues?

15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

This is where an Angel is describing the vision to John. Lets examine the verse in reverse which may help us in dissecting it's meaning

There are peoples, multitudes of them, of different nations, and languages, where this "whore" sits, on many waters... The waters in verse 1 of chapter 17 describe literal waters that this "whore" sits on. Verse 15 is only further adding to the description of this physical place by telling us about its inhabitants.

What is the ancestral lineage of the typical American? And how would an Angel describe this multi-cultural society of ours to someone from Johns period of time?
"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamour and opposition." Sir Isaac Newton, 1642-1727

Remember me affectionately to good Dr. Price and to the honest heretic Dr. Priestly. I do not call him honest by way of distinction; for I think all the heretics I have known have been virtuous men. They have the virtue of fortitude or they would not venture to own their heresy; and they cannot afford to be deficient in any of the other virtues, as that would give advantage to their many enemies; and they have not like orthodox sinners, such a number of friends to excuse or justify them. Do not, however mistake me. It is not to my good friend's heresy that I impute his honesty. On the contrary, 'tis his honesty that has brought upon him the character of heretic.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Tevye on Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:33 am

OneDay wrote:Hmmmmmm, I just wonder... antisemitism is on the rise, even here.
If push came to shove, would this admin. move for Israel, considering how Obama has treated "Bibi"?

There are many people who surprise us everyday.
I have met some people who lived some of the darkest lives
and became some of the most on fire for Christ Christians I ever met.

If we look at the outside of people (or the political status) every four years...
then we would be holding scripture up to what conditions the world is in at the moment.
Plus, we don't know who God has placed in powerful and highly influential positions in America.
There could be the silent ones who have great influence and who seceretly love the Lord
who in a pinch would pull the strings necessary to have the great eagle be there at the right time for Israel.

Just because things look bleak at a given moment in time, doesn't mean that all is lost for this nation.

Judgement will come to the nations who rebel against God, but not before His will has been accomplished.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Mrs. B on Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:54 am

War with Iran,.....

Many Waters.......
Waters.....Peoples of every Nation, Language....color, culture,all peoples of the world....

In every Nation there are Born Again Believers.....The New Birth saperates us from what we call the world..
world peoples......

that is how God see us........The Saved or the unsaved

When we read the Bible you will realize Nations of Peoples........
There will be the saved in a Nation and the Unsaved...

This is why in the end times.......many christians will suffer.....because of the wars and rulers of the nation they live in.....
Each of us are responsible for our own personnel life......We are to be a Light in a World of Darkness.....We are to win the Lost in what ever Nation we live.....
There is no Special Nation with God....
Only those Born again in to the invisible Kingdom of God....
There are Christians in Iran.....
many believers live in Muslum countries.....Realize also Israel as a whole has rejected Jesus...Even if they are from the Tribe of Juda.......World Judgment comes to every Nation......
Only those that are born again and follow Jesus have the Promise of Eternal Life....
War will come as Jesus...Wars and Rumour of Wars...
This effects all peoples..........
Jeremiah 51:15.....He hath made the earth by His Power, he hath Established the World by His Wisdom, and hath Stretched out the heaven by His Understanding.
16...Whe He Uttereth His Voice, there is a Multitude of Waters in the Heavens: and He causeth the Vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth: He makettth lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind oout of His Treasures..

17...Every man is Brutish (spiritually Ignorant) by his knowledge (worldy knowledge)....Every founder is confounded by the raven imaaae; for his molten image is Falsehood, and there is no breath (life) in them..
18...They are vanity, the work of errors: in time of their Visitation they shall perish....


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Re: War with Iran

Postby xdrifter on Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:35 pm

Tevye wrote:
OneDay wrote:Hmmmmmm, I just wonder... antisemitism is on the rise, even here.
If push came to shove, would this admin. move for Israel, considering how Obama has treated "Bibi"?

There are many people who surprise us everyday.
I have met some people who lived some of the darkest lives
and became some of the most on fire for Christ Christians I ever met.

If we look at the outside of people (or the political status) every four years...
then we would be holding scripture up to what conditions the world is in at the moment.
Plus, we don't know who God has placed in powerful and highly influential positions in America.
There could be the silent ones who have great influence and who seceretly love the Lord
who in a pinch would pull the strings necessary to have the great eagle be there at the right time for Israel.

Just because things look bleak at a given moment in time, doesn't mean that all is lost for this nation.

Judgement will come to the nations who rebel against God, but not before His will has been accomplished
.



What exactly do you believe is Gods will for America? in light of all that has been said in this thread concerning Gods Prophecies and current events?

Who, specifically, do you believe end time Babylon to be?

Who do you believe Gog and Magog to be?

Where do you believe America fits in to Biblical Prophecy?

In light of all the scriptural evidence posted here some would argue that if America is Babylon, Gods will is to destroy America.

When you say,

Judgement will come to the nations who rebel against God, but not before His will has been accomplished


What specifically do you believe is Gods Will?

These things matter; please elaborate.
"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamour and opposition." Sir Isaac Newton, 1642-1727

Remember me affectionately to good Dr. Price and to the honest heretic Dr. Priestly. I do not call him honest by way of distinction; for I think all the heretics I have known have been virtuous men. They have the virtue of fortitude or they would not venture to own their heresy; and they cannot afford to be deficient in any of the other virtues, as that would give advantage to their many enemies; and they have not like orthodox sinners, such a number of friends to excuse or justify them. Do not, however mistake me. It is not to my good friend's heresy that I impute his honesty. On the contrary, 'tis his honesty that has brought upon him the character of heretic.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby popajay2652 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:55 pm

Sword of Geddon wrote:Obama has said that he is making the destruction of Israel his stated goal for his second term, if he is reelected.


Can you provide a link where he said this. I am not saying that he didn't, I just find it hard to believe that he did. Thank you.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Tevye on Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:50 pm

Very excellent questions.
xdrifter wrote:What exactly do you believe is Gods will for America? in light of all that has been said in this thread concerning Gods Prophecies and current events?

To be the two wings of a great eagle for Israel in the time of Great Tribulation
right when antichrist has set up the Abomination upon the temple fortress.
xdrifter wrote:Who, specifically, do you believe end time Babylon to be?

Good question, I'm waiting upon the Spirit of the Lord to show me.
But I do have some ideas of where it will be when it comes.
Somewhere in the middle east... it will be known at the appointed time.
Other than America who do you think it could be?
xdrifter wrote:Who do you believe Gog and Magog to be?

A people from far, far north of Israel.
Possibly Turkey, and or Russia. Leaning towards Russia, but...we'll have to see...
xdrifter wrote:Where do you believe America fits in to Biblical Prophecy?

Right in the heart of it. No doubt, she has a huge responsibility in that time of great tribulation.
xdrifter wrote:In light of all the scriptural evidence posted here some would argue that if America is Babylon, Gods will is to destroy America.

When you say,

Judgement will come to the nations who rebel against God, but not before His will has been accomplished


What specifically do you believe is Gods Will?

These things matter; please elaborate.

I believe the deep answers from the Lord are able to be discovered
right there in the midst of God's word, if we will have ears to hear.
In them we find His will for Israel, His children and our future.
His will is of the utmost importance above all. It is up to us
to be the fulfilment of what His desire is for humanity
and by and through His grace we'll find the courage
to be His light to the world, and for His people.
I believe that being human means to be ever learing God's will
to be ever adjusting our perspective, until the day of Christ when
the morning star rises in our hearts and ours becomes fully in line with His.
I believe that God has a plan for the nations who have Christians in them
Christians who will be raptured, on the day that the day of the Lord begins
and then one might say, that all bets are off for those nations, after that one event.
Specifically, I believe that America is so great of a single nation because God desires it to be.
(I believe she will do what His will is, no matter how far from God's glory she may wander)

Very good questions! Thank you for asking.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Sword of Geddon on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:01 pm

popajay2652 wrote:
Sword of Geddon wrote:Obama has said that he is making the destruction of Israel his stated goal for his second term, if he is reelected.


Can you provide a link where he said this. I am not saying that he didn't, I just find it hard to believe that he did. Thank you.


http://kleinonline.wnd.com/2012/01/12/o ... -2nd-term/
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding." Proverbs 3:5
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Re: War with Iran

Postby xdrifter on Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:56 am

Tevye,in the past I would not have been completely satisfied with your responses. I would have asked you to offer scriptural evidence to back these claims you are making.

But I have come to terms with the fact that there are many out there with views, and understandings of the Bible that are in complete contrast with what I consider to be true

I have heard enough of what you believe to know that you and I, know two very different Gods. Which means one of us is going to be left at the end saying "Lord, Lord", and one of us is going to hear, "depart from Me, I never knew you."

Now please excuse me while I go beg of God that it isn't me.
"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamour and opposition." Sir Isaac Newton, 1642-1727

Remember me affectionately to good Dr. Price and to the honest heretic Dr. Priestly. I do not call him honest by way of distinction; for I think all the heretics I have known have been virtuous men. They have the virtue of fortitude or they would not venture to own their heresy; and they cannot afford to be deficient in any of the other virtues, as that would give advantage to their many enemies; and they have not like orthodox sinners, such a number of friends to excuse or justify them. Do not, however mistake me. It is not to my good friend's heresy that I impute his honesty. On the contrary, 'tis his honesty that has brought upon him the character of heretic.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Abiding in His Word on Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:10 am

xdrifter wrote:I have heard enough of what you believe to know that you and I, know two very different Gods. Which means one of us is going to be left at the end saying "Lord, Lord", and one of us is going to hear, "depart from Me, I never knew you."

Now please excuse me while I go beg of God that it isn't me.


xdrifter, this is a totally unacceptable judgement! We have absolutely no right to question another's salvation; especially a brother in Christ.

You owe him an apology.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby xdrifter on Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:39 am

Abiding in His Word wrote:
xdrifter wrote:I have heard enough of what you believe to know that you and I, know two very different Gods. Which means one of us is going to be left at the end saying "Lord, Lord", and one of us is going to hear, "depart from Me, I never knew you."

Now please excuse me while I go beg of God that it isn't me.


xdrifter, this is a totally unacceptable judgement! We have absolutely no right to question another's salvation; especially a brother in Christ.

You owe him an apology.


If stack our Gods up side by side, and they are not the same God, both of us ought to question our Salvation because GOD is a sovereign entity, there is only one true God.

Abiding, if you read my post carefully I stated a fact, that I believe in a different GOD then He does, therefore WE do not believe in the same GOD. This is nothing to apologize for. I did not state that His Salvation is in question, I stated that either His, or Mine is; and that is a fact.


Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


Are we to rip out the pages of the Bible that condemn us? IF any are offended by the fact Scriptures say that many will call out to the Lord on that day, only to be turned away, then they themselves lack the fear and trembling needed to work out their own salvation.

Maybe sir, this fellow knows God, if that be the case I have created for myself an Idol... If you read my post carefully I made no such judgement on him, I only stated the obvious.
"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamour and opposition." Sir Isaac Newton, 1642-1727

Remember me affectionately to good Dr. Price and to the honest heretic Dr. Priestly. I do not call him honest by way of distinction; for I think all the heretics I have known have been virtuous men. They have the virtue of fortitude or they would not venture to own their heresy; and they cannot afford to be deficient in any of the other virtues, as that would give advantage to their many enemies; and they have not like orthodox sinners, such a number of friends to excuse or justify them. Do not, however mistake me. It is not to my good friend's heresy that I impute his honesty. On the contrary, 'tis his honesty that has brought upon him the character of heretic.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:10 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zBJWXES ... r_embedded
Naftali Bennett, a former Chief of Staff to Benjamin Netanyahu, urges President Obama's administration to either stop Iran, or let Israel do the job.


Interesting video that relates to the topic of this thread

RT
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Re: War with Iran

Postby mrgravyard49 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:23 am

Yes Interesting... Obama wont help, this is an election year for him and He wont attack his Muslim Brothers...
If You listen to Bibi,, Im thinking before this year is out Israel attacks Iran..
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Re: War with Iran

Postby GodsStudent on Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:39 am

Resurrection Torchlight wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zBJWXESSpU&feature=player_embedded
Naftali Bennett, a former Chief of Staff to Benjamin Netanyahu, urges President Obama's administration to either stop Iran, or let Israel do the job.


Interesting video that relates to the topic of this thread

RT


:praying: I appreciated hearing that, RT. Our brothers and sisters in Israel are dealing with an entity who is committed to eliminating them from the face of the earth, for the shi'a love of a dark god of war, allah, promises to appear at the peak of their hate filled attempt to eliminate the people of the one true God. They desire the destruction of Americans who love the Lord as well. May the prayers of the psalmist in Psalms 83 be on the hearts of the Lord's saints, and may we all join together in reiterating them for God's glory, in Christ name. Amen.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Hisown on Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:47 am

Tevye wrote:Very excellent questions.
xdrifter wrote:What exactly do you believe is Gods will for America? in light of all that has been said in this thread concerning Gods Prophecies and current events?

To be the two wings of a great eagle for Israel in the time of Great Tribulation


If I may interject here and pray that we will be allowed to test the spirits as God's word exhorts us too.Please don't deny Exdrifter that!

Just one question Tevye, are you a Mormon?

What's this nonsense of a the USA being the Great Eagle in the tribulation?
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Hisown on Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:55 am

Meant to add.

I met a Latter day Saint a while back and had a very fascinating discussion with him, if I had not been grounded in the word of God his argument would have been quite compelling ....to the undiscerning Christian I might add :shock:

Exdrifter I'm praying with you my dear friend :hugs:
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Exit40 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:31 am

Iran funds Hezbollah, leader Nasrallah admits
February/09/2012
BEIRUT / TEHRAN

Lebanon’s Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah on Feb. 7 acknowledged for the first time that his party was solely funded and equipped by Iran and said Iran will not ask Hezbollah to retaliate if Israel attacks Iran’s nuclear facilities.

Nasrallah told thousands of supporters by video link that in case of such an Israeli attack on Iran, his leadership would make a decision about a response. “There is speculation about what would happen if Israel bombed Iran’s nuclear facilities,” the Associated Press quoted Nasrallah as saying.

“I tell you that the Iranian leadership will not ask Hezbollah to do anything. On that day, we will sit, think and decide what we will do.” The Iran-backed group has been in conflict with Israel since 1982, when Israel invaded Lebanon. In 2006, Hezbollah and Israel fought a 34-day war that killed about 1,200 people in Lebanon and 160 in Israel. Nasrallah also denied U.S. charges that his group was involved in drug smuggling and money laundering.....

Continues

God Bless

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Exit40 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:48 am

Hisown wrote:What's this nonsense of a the USA being the Great Eagle in the tribulation?


It's not nonsense, it is a belief that comes from Scripture...

Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

The general definition of Ephraim is the lost ten tribes of Israel. Many believe they are dispersed mainly in the West, to include the US, whose modern day image is a great eagle. This may include some of us here on this board. If the Mormons believe it is them, well, they are not the ones who are complete in their knowledge. So who amongst us is ?

I have to add, just because we differ in opinions does not mean there are different Gods. Why does one have to be
' right ' in order to be accepted by our Christ who will open all our eyes when He returns.

God Bless

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby GodsStudent on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:08 am

:praise: :blessyou: , David.

I was just praying about this thread. The "tone" and so forth had me so upset yesterday and again today. Thank you, David, for your edified and tactful response.

God Bless you!!!
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Hisown on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:09 am

Exit40 wrote:
Hisown wrote:What's this nonsense of a the USA being the Great Eagle in the tribulation?


It's not nonsense, it is a belief that comes from Scripture...

Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

The general definition of Ephraim is the lost ten tribes of Israel. Many believe they are dispersed mainly in the West, to include the US, whose modern day image is a great eagle. This may include some of us here on this board. If the Mormons believe it is them, well, they are not the ones who are complete in their knowledge. So who amongst us is ?

I have to add, just because we differ in opinions does not mean there are different Gods. Why does one have to be
' right ' in order to be accepted by our Christ who will open all our eyes when He returns.



God Bless

David



Let me clarify .

I meant it in the context of the USA being the nation that rescues Israel in the great tribulation ( the " White Horse Prophecy " theory AKA Mormon deception )

I am NOT denying that America is referenced as the a " EAGLE" in scripture.....that is not what I meant and if you take the time to read my posts here since 2006, you will see my concern of how the Lord would humble the this once great nation . I've also shared my conern for the YOKE that USA has / would place on Israel and the consequences thereof ...period! :bag:

His word never returns void amen?

It is the PRIDE of this " eagle " that concerns me.Pride sure does blind!

Jer 49:16 — Thy terribleness hath deceived thee, and the pride of thine heart, O thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, that holdest the height of the hill: though thou shouldest make thy nest as high as the eagle, I will bring thee down from thence, saith the LORD.

Oba 1:4 — Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the LORD.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Hisown on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:20 am

You know I have something I need to share with you and pray that you will read it in the spirit of love that it was written ( the Lord's sees the heart)


In 1998 when I arrived here the Lord led me to a understanding that the USA is under His judgment and what was to befall this nation.Back then I was still a pre ribber and was asked to be a moderator on a major pre-trib board. Two years prior to 9: 11 the Lord called me to share my concern to my American brethern...... ( they were deeply offended) and was banned for DARING to share scripture on pride, idolatry and how we have forsaken the God of Israel....9"11 came as no surprise. :cry:

I am once again witnessing the very same arrogance and the attitudes and am afraid we are closer to judgment than ever before and know that the Lord will have His way.

What a time to be alive :a2:
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Exit40 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:10 am

Hi Hisown..

Hisown wrote:Let me clarify .

I meant it in the context of the USA being the nation that rescues Israel in the great tribulation ( the " White Horse Prophecy " theory AKA Mormon deception )


I thought thatwas what you might be referring to, and the reason for addressing it in my post.

I am NOT denying that America is referenced as the a " EAGLE" in scripture.....that is not what I meant and if you take the time to read my posts here since 2006, you will see my concern of how the Lord would humble the this once great nation . I've also shared my conern for the YOKE that USA has / would place on Israel and the consequences thereof ...period! :bag:


I have read many of your posts and I agree in many areas. We are right to be concerned about the direction of our nation and churches in this time. I believe Scripture points the US out as a part of the final beast empire.

His word never returns void amen?


:a3: and :a3:

It is the PRIDE of this " eagle " that concerns me.Pride sure does blind!


And greed, and all of the qualities of the unrighteous The Lord points out in His Letters to the Seven Churches.

Jer 49:16 — Thy terribleness hath deceived thee, and the pride of thine heart, O thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, that holdest the height of the hill: though thou shouldest make thy nest as high as the eagle, I will bring thee down from thence, saith the LORD.

Oba 1:4 — Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the LORD.


These passages, I believe, were intended for the Sabians who lived at Bozrah, their destruction was complete, and now it is a tourist attraction. Even so, a future fulfillment might apply to the rich who live in high towers today all across the planet. One could call them the kings of the earth for all the power they wield with their money.

What a time to be alive :a2:


Yes it is. A time for a humbling fear of Our lord, and a time for rejoicing that we may live in a time of the completion of His Will for this age.

God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Tevye on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:29 am

Just to clarify...
no I'm not a memeber of the Latter Day Saints organization.
I was baptized by a baptist preacher, and am non-denominational.
I'm not into taking sides on some of the denomination issues.
But all this is between the Lord and us, we will be the ones
who will stand before Him on that day and give an account of our life.
It's okay if some theories, grounded in scripture, may appear to be alien.
I have been learning so much in this discussion and have been inspired
to seek out more possibilities and scriptural connections for the answers.

I was waiting upon the Spirit of the Lord for an answer
to the question of where Mystery Babylon will be in the time of antichrist.
I didn't expect the answer to come so quickly. I believe that there are clear
comparative scriptures that show as well as some convincing therories
from an article I found last night that lead me to believe that is is possible
that the city that will be Mystery Bablyon will be located in a place
that will surprise so many people. So much so that if it were told to them
that they will not believe it. As scripture tells us in Habakkuk 1:5 will happen.

I know that discovering new meanings to scriptures that have been told to us
to mean something entirely something else, can be extremely difficult to accept.
I believe that when we shed our pre-concieved expectations and emotions
that hold us to what others have told one another was truth
and lean solely upon the Spirit of the Lord for scriptural truth
then we become open to allowing the Spirit to lead us into all truth.
I'm not saying that everything we have been taught is wrong, by no means
it's just that there are so many myths that were formed through speculation
and incorrect interpretation that we can step aside from and walk into His light.

I'm not going to go into those issues, or address where or who they originate from
because there is so much more to be gained by focusing upon the Lord's positive light of love
that we can allow the effective spiritual medicine, so to speak, to heal our 'decieved' wounds.
Some things may seem to be obvious that they would line up with the scriptures
but it is only that they 'appear' to be that way. Yet, there is another way
in Messiah Yeshua, apart from the insights of men (and women)
By His Spirit of truth, that will guide us into all truth.
"Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete."

In sense when a theory is presented contrary to what we have been previously taught
it can appear as though one would be worshiping a god other that the One whom we have known for years.
I understand how deep our hopes for a perspective to be true and someone coming along and challenging
that perspective can be like salt upon a wound, quite painful... So I strive to share these truths, these
perspectives of mine that are based upon scripture and historical discoveries in the love of Christ.
Doing such does not always prevent the difficult pain of dealing with the misinformation we all
have been given throughout the years by honest men and women of God who were given
the same information based upon speculation limited by what resources they had.
(not saying this of any member here at FP whatsoever...)

Last night I came across some startling information that I had not heard ever before.
I was amazed by the information, (that was so well presented.) Something I had not ever
imagined that Eden may have been located in Lebanon and in Israel. That Jerusalem may have
been the location of the spring that watered the mist in the garden of Eden. So I looked to the
scriptures and something clicked. Yeshua said of Jerusalem in Matt 23 that she was the city who
killed the prophets and those sent to her. And He revealed to the Apostle John that Mystery Babylon
would be the city where "in her was found the blood of prophets and saints,
and of all who were slain on the earth.” If Eden, the place responsible for
the death of all who have died upon the Earth was located in the area of Jerusalem
and the prophets of old had died in that city as the Lord told us in Matthew 23
then it is possible that Jerusalem will become the city Mystery Babylon
right after the day that antichrist sets up his royal tents in that region.

"when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement."
If the Apostle John had seen a city that was of the enemy
he would not have been so surprised, but I imagine that he saw Jerusalem
in a state of desolation like a wilderness ravaged by the effects of antichrist.

A war with Iran may just lead to the fulfilment of the Lord's prophecy.

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:02 pm

ast night I came across some startling information that I had not heard ever before.
I was amazed by the information, (that was so well presented.) Something I had not ever
imagined that Eden may have been located in Lebanon and in Israel. That Jerusalem may have
been the location of the spring that watered the mist in the garden of Eden. So I looked to the
scriptures and something clicked.Yeshua said of Jerusalem in Matt 23 that she was the city who
killed the prophets and those sent to her. And He revealed to the Apostle John that Mystery Babylon
would be the city where "in her was found the blood of prophets and saints,
and of all who were slain on the earth.” If Eden, the place responsible for
the death of all who have died upon the Earth was located in the area of Jerusalem
and the prophets of old had died in that city as the Lord told us in Matthew 23
then it is possible that Jerusalem will become the city Mystery Babylon
right after the day that antichrist sets up his royal tents in that region.


"when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement."
If the Apostle John had seen a city that was of the enemy
he would not have been so surprised, but I imagine that he saw Jerusalem
in a state of desolation like a wilderness ravaged by the effects of antichrist.


:ummm:
I think I may have mentioned that a few posts back?????

RT
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Tevye on Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:42 pm

You did RT?
Must have missed it.
Was that in this thread?
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Sword of Geddon on Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:10 pm

Saying the US is going to save Israel is ridiculious. The US has betrayed and has been destroying its own godly heritage for years now. The US has become the importer of immorality to the rest of the world. This is a country which was once a force for good, a country that still claims to be "one nation under God". That claim is still made, but by ignoring the fact that the country as a whole has turned its back on godlyness and has embraced other gods.

It is quite clear to those not blinded by love of country that that America is Mystery Babylon.

Anyone making the jump that America is going to save Israel as "a great eagle" are cherry-picking afew choice verses to make such a interpretation fit scripture. It is the practice of making scripture fit your world view, rather than reading scripture and letting it dictate your views, as is correct.

What country currently controls the United Nations, the latest attempt at world government? The United States. The UN is a beast with no teeth currently because it is controlled(ridden) by the US. There will come a time when that is no longer the case.

-America claims to be a Christian nation, yet worships many other gods, celebrating such worship as "freedom"
-America destroys its own heritage, using its own constitution to remove Christian references
-America started the modern practice of Abortion, and has spread that practice around the world.
-America holds the most influencial cultural institution in the world, Hollywood. America imports the immorality found in much of Hollywood to the rest of the world.
-America for years has been playing Israel, claiming to be on Israel's side, when in reality the US has condemned Israel when it defends itself, and has backed the terrorists known as the Palestians, a people who wish to destroy Israel.
-America is the source for the "gay rights" movement of modern times. It now enforces "gay rights" on the rest of the world.

I could go on and on, but to deny america is Mystery Babylon, or will be Mystery Babylon, is to deny scripture itself. Xdrifter's righteous anger on this issue was justified.
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding." Proverbs 3:5
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Re: War with Iran

Postby clang on Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:32 pm

Exit40 wrote:
Hisown wrote:What's this nonsense of a the USA being the Great Eagle in the tribulation?


It's not nonsense, it is a belief that comes from Scripture...

Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

The general definition of Ephraim is the lost ten tribes of Israel. Many believe they are dispersed mainly in the West, to include the US, whose modern day image is a great eagle. This may include some of us here on this board. If the Mormons believe it is them, well, they are not the ones who are complete in their knowledge. So who amongst us is ?

I have to add, just because we differ in opinions does not mean there are different Gods. Why does one have to be
' right ' in order to be accepted by our Christ who will open all our eyes when He returns.

God Bless

David

David, have you ever heard that the lost ten tribes are a myth? I believe it may very well be.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:59 pm

You did RT?
Must have missed it.
Was that in this thread?


page 2, this thread, just beyond the halfway mark- but it's okay, at least someone here agrees with me for a change.

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Re: War with Iran

Postby Tevye on Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:25 pm

I'm sorry I missed your post RT
It was very well thought out.
I'm still in a state of astonishment
I was imagining somewhere else further east of Israel
but with the Eden location possibility connected to Jerusalem
and the verse at the end of Revelation chapter 18, it's difficult to see any other place as M.B.
Resurrection Torchlight wrote:The idea that America is the future "Babylon" is purely speculation, the book of Revelation says this about mystery Babylon:

Revelation 18:24
24 “And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth.”


According to scripture:
Nehemiah 9:26
26 “But they became disobedient and rebelled against You,
And cast Your law behind their backs
And killed Your prophets who had admonished them
So that they might return to You,
And they committed great blasphemies.


Matthew 23:29-37
29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous,
30 and say, ‘If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’
31 “So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
32 “Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers.
33 “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?
34 “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,
35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36 “Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.


Luke 13:34
34 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not have it!


Revelation also says this about mystery Babylon- she is the mother of harlots and abominations.

Revelation 17:1-5
1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters,
2 with whom the kings of the earth committed acts of immorality, and those who dwell on the earth were made drunk with the wine of her immorality.”
3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality,
5 and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, “BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”
.


OT scriptures repeatedly describe Israel/Jerusalem as harlots
Deuteronomy 31:16
16 The Lord said to Moses, “Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.

Isaiah 1:21
21 How the faithful city has become a harlot,
She who was full of justice!
Righteousness once lodged in her,
But now murderers.

Jeremiah 3:1
1 God says, “If a husband divorces his wife
And she goes from him
And belongs to another man,
Will he still return to her?
Will not that land be completely polluted?
But you are a harlot with many lovers;
Yet you turn to Me,” declares the Lord.

Jeremiah 3:8-14
8 “And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away and given her a writ of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear; but she went and was a harlot also.
9 “Because of the lightness of her harlotry, she polluted the land and committed adultery with stones and trees.
10 “Yet in spite of all this her treacherous sister Judah did not return to Me with all her heart, but rather in deception,” declares the Lord.
11 And the Lord said to me, “Faithless Israel has proved herself more righteous than treacherous Judah.
12 “Go and proclaim these words toward the north and say,
‘Return, faithless Israel,’ declares the Lord;
‘I will not look upon you in anger.
For I am gracious,’ declares the Lord;
‘I will not be angry forever.
13 ‘Only acknowledge your iniquity,
That you have transgressed against the Lord your God
And have scattered your favors to the strangers under every green tree,
And you have not obeyed My voice,’ declares the Lord.
14 ‘Return, O faithless sons,’ declares the Lord;
‘For I am a master to you,
And I will take you one from a city and two from a family,
And I will bring you to Zion.’

Ezekiel 6:9-13
9 “Then those of you who escape will remember Me among the nations to which they will be carried captive, how I have been hurt by their adulterous hearts which turned away from Me, and by their eyes which played the harlot after their idols; and they will loathe themselves in their own sight for the evils which they have committed, for all their abominations.
10 “Then they will know that I am the Lord; I have not said in vain that I would inflict this disaster on them.” ’
11 “Thus says the Lord God, ‘Clap your hand, stamp your foot and say, “Alas, because of all the evil abominations of the house of Israel, which will fall by sword, famine and plague!
12 “He who is far off will die by the plague, and he who is near will fall by the sword, and he who remains and is besieged will die by the famine. Thus will I spend My wrath on them.
13 “Then you will know that I am the Lord, when their slain are among their idols around their altars, on every high hill, on all the tops of the mountains, under every green tree and under every leafy oak—the places where they offered soothing aroma to all their idols.

Ezekiel 16:15
15 “But you trusted in your beauty and played the harlot because of your fame, and you poured out your harlotries on every passer-by who might be willing.

Ezekiel 16:36-39
36 Thus says the Lord God, “Because your lewdness was poured out and your nakedness uncovered through your harlotries with your lovers and with all your detestable idols, and because of the blood of your sons which you gave to idols,
37 therefore, behold, I will gather all your lovers with whom you took pleasure, even all those whom you loved and all those whom you hated. So I will gather them against you from every direction and expose your nakedness to them that they may see all your nakedness.

38 “Thus I will judge you like women who commit adultery or shed blood are judged; and I will bring on you the blood of wrath and jealousy.
39 “I will also give you into the hands of your lovers, and they will tear down your shrines, demolish your high places, strip you of your clothing, take away your jewels, and will leave you naked and bare.

Hosea 2:2-5
2 “Contend with your mother, contend,
For she is not my wife, and I am not her husband;
And let her put away her harlotry from her face
And her adultery from between her breasts,

3 Or I will strip her naked
And expose her as on the day when she was born.
I will also make her like a wilderness,
Make her like desert land
And slay her with thirst.
4 “Also, I will have no compassion on her children,
Because they are children of harlotry.
5 “For their mother has played the harlot;
She who conceived them has acted shamefully.
For she said, ‘I will go after my lovers,
Who give me my bread and my water,
My wool and my flax, my oil and my drink.’

Hosea 2:9-10
9 “Therefore, I will take back My grain at harvest time
And My new wine in its season.
I will also take away My wool and My flax
Given to cover her nakedness.
10 “And then I will uncover her lewdness
In the sight of her lovers,
And no one will rescue her out of My hand.


Note the similarities between Ezekiel 16:39, Hosea 2:10 and the following in Revelation:

Revelation 17:15-18
15 And he said to me, “The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.
16 “And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.
17 “For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled.
18 “The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”





Just saying

RT
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Re: War with Iran

Postby amessenger4god on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:40 pm

I have to say, after reading what you posted, I searched on this myself and am stunned at the following article. It is the most thoroughly Biblical argument for who Mystery Babylon is I have ever seen (in my humble opinion), even though I have been a strong proponent of the America-New York-Babylon theory:

http://www.lookup.org/mysterybabylon.htm

If this is true, I really have to rethink things! But ahhh, the picture is getting clearer and clearer!
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."
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Re: War with Iran

Postby GodsStudent on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:17 am

amessenger4god wrote:I have to say, after reading what you posted, I searched on this myself and am stunned at the following article. It is the most thoroughly Biblical argument for who Mystery Babylon is I have ever seen (in my humble opinion), even though I have been a strong proponent of the America-New York-Babylon theory:

http://www.lookup.org/mysterybabylon.htm

If this is true, I really have to rethink things! But ahhh, the picture is getting clearer and clearer!


I agree, and these are my conclusions as well. I have a few questions, Such as Revelation 17:18 which describes the woman as the great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.....historically, this might fit, but presently, the US, NYC is so easy to see. RT has posted too much scripture to dismiss what we are reading. Ironically, with the "great city" verse confounding me, I opened the article amfg linked, and that is exactly what was being elaborated on. :grin:
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Exit40 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:18 am

clang wrote:David, have you ever heard that the lost ten tribes are a myth? I believe it may very well be.


Hi Carl. Never heard of that. But how can you explain the 144,000 then ? Twelve thousand from twelve tribes seems pretty clear they are around on planet earth somewhere. Surely The Lord knows who they are.

God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby clang on Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:42 am

I along with most people agree that Luke 21 and Matthew 24 are parallel passages. However there are some subtle differences in them which may be important. In Luke 21, Jesus is talking about "the wars and rumors of wars" taking place and then He uses the words "Before" these things take place. Could this be a two fold prophesy? Could He be prophesying about the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD as well as the end times. In Matthew 24, Jesus is talking about the "wars and rumors of wars" but He now uses a different word, "Then", and He goes on to describe the things that will happen before His second coming. I don't know if this has been discussed here before but it may be worth digging a little deeper.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:21 am

I have to say, after reading what you posted, I searched on this myself and am stunned at the following article. It is the most thoroughly Biblical argument for who Mystery Babylon is I have ever seen (in my humble opinion), even though I have been a strong proponent of the America-New York-Babylon theory:

http://www.lookup.org/mysterybabylon.htm


Pretty much in total agreement with what was said at the link.

Another point is that we know that the antichrist will want to rule from Jerusalem, he seats himself in the temple calling himself God so it stands to reason that it will be the city that rules over the kings of the earth, both under the antichrist and then under Jesus Christ.

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Re: War with Iran

Postby clang on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:40 pm

Exit40 wrote:
clang wrote:David, have you ever heard that the lost ten tribes are a myth? I believe it may very well be.


Hi Carl. Never heard of that. But how can you explain the 144,000 then ? Twelve thousand from twelve tribes seems pretty clear they are around on planet earth somewhere. Surely The Lord knows who they are.

God Bless You

David

During the reign of Jeroboam when he set up golden idols for the people to worship in the northern kingdom, there were
many people that still feared God and wanted nothing to do with pagan idol worship. They left the north and traveled down closer to Jerusalem where they could continue to worship God. Here they settled and intermingled in some cases with the tribe of Judah, so in the area of the tribe of Judah is found a remnant of all 12 tribes. They were never lost in the first place, only relocated. :grin:
I can't take credit for this as I heard Chuck Missler talking about it in his Revelation series. I do intend to look at this in more depth when time allows.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby OneDay on Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:48 am

from Pastor Bro Brian:


there are reports that 15,000 Iranian elite soldiers are heading to Syria, and British and Qatari forces are too. Some say all of the before mentioned are already there. The head of Iranian special units is said to be in Damascus to help operate the war room. If this is true, then Isaiah 17 where Damascus is destroyed is a real possibility. Will a Syrian conflict which destroys Damascus be a hook that leads Russia into the Middle East? Russia will not be one of the first countries coming to the Middle East for God will have to hook them into coming into the northern parts of Israel. War preparations are heightened, and with any possibility of war there are many rumors. There are rumors major news outlets are preparing for the eventuality of an Iranian conflict, and Israeli government officials are laying the groundwork to evacuate Israelis if need be. We need to be in prayer for all those involved. If a war room is being prepared then Israel is the target, not Syrian dissidents.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/295040/ ... russia.htm
I think he is on to something.
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Re: War with Iran

Postby benny balerio on Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:23 am

OneDay wrote:from Pastor Bro Brian:


there are reports that 15,000 Iranian elite soldiers are heading to Syria, and British and Qatari forces are too. Some say all of the before mentioned are already there. The head of Iranian special units is said to be in Damascus to help operate the war room. If this is true, then Isaiah 17 where Damascus is destroyed is a real possibility. Will a Syrian conflict which destroys Damascus be a hook that leads Russia into the Middle East? Russia will not be one of the first countries coming to the Middle East for God will have to hook them into coming into the northern parts of Israel. War preparations are heightened, and with any possibility of war there are many rumors. There are rumors major news outlets are preparing for the eventuality of an Iranian conflict, and Israeli government officials are laying the groundwork to evacuate Israelis if need be. We need to be in prayer for all those involved. If a war room is being prepared then Israel is the target, not Syrian dissidents.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/295040/ ... russia.htm
I think he is on to something.


This makes sense to me,....From several websites and secular forums, many are out buying and stocking up on food and suppies,..and then we have our christian scholars who are basicly stating that that rapture is so close that you can almost touch it.....I AGREE!
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Re: War with Iran

Postby GodsStudent on Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:30 am

:praying:
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Re: War with Iran

Postby OneDay on Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:47 am

Iran to Hamas: We will use everything at our disposal to support the Palestinians
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-d ... s-1.412290
Iran reiterated its support for Palestinian resistance against Israel on Friday, saying that it would "use everything at its disposal" to support the Palestinians, according to an AFP report.

First vice-president Mohammad Reza Rahimi made the remarks to leader of Hamas in the Gaza Strip Ismail Haniyeh, who is in the country on a three-day visit, AFP cited Iran's presidential website as saying.
"Iran will not retreat one iota from its position on defending the rights of the Palestinian people," Rahimi was cited as saying. Iran "will use everything at its disposal to support the oppressed Palestinians," he said, adding, "The Palestinian issue is a red line for us."

The presidential website also quoted Rahimi as saying that "soon the Zionist regime will be punished for its plots and aggression," AFP said.
continues...
THEN
Report: Syrian Armored Forces Move Nearer to Israel
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/ ... zffrtSQ9xg
According to reports from the Free Syria Army, the Syrian military has moved forces stationed in the southern part of the Syrian Golan Heights closer to Israel.

The Syrian military did not come close to the border with Israel. However, armored forces that were stationed along the Syria-Jordan border, which were recently reinforced, were moved and are now closer to Israel, according to the report.

The Free Syria Army is the largest opposition group in Syria and is partly made up of defectors from the official Syrian Army.

Israel has been concerned that Syrian strongman Bashar al-Assad, whose regime is on the verge of collapse, may try to defuse the uprising against him by starting a conflict with Israel.
continues...

pastor Brian is right...this will be about attacking Israel, & don't they know it...
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Tevye on Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:17 am

Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu wrote:Iran Offers Aid to Palestinian Authority to Defeat Israel

Iran tells Gaza’s Hamas leader Haniyeh it is offering
“scientific and technological experience” to the PA for a “victory” over Israel.
israelnationalnews.com/News

A case of my enemy's enemy is my friend...?
Or would this be my friend's enemy is my enemy?
Friends, but only so far as for Iran to use them to defeat Israel?
(and then they'll dump the relationship) I can't imagine that Iran
has Gaza's best interests in this situation, or they would invite them all
to come live in Iran. (like that would ever happen....)
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Tevye on Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:37 am

...continued...
Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu wrote:Iran's Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi told Haniyeh Saturday of “the need for Palestinian adherence to
the basic principles of resistance as the key ingredient for their victory against Israel,” according to
the official Iranian PRESS TV news agency. Haniyeh replied,
“Muslims through full unity and with the support of the Islamic Republic of Iran
will liberate Al Aqsa mosque [on the Temple Mount] in the future.”

:eek: Sounds very much like...
He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’
he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple
he will set up an abomination that causes desolation,..." Daniel chapter 9

...and...

“the need for Palestinian adherence to the basic principles of resistance (rebellion?)
as the key ingredient for their victory against Israel,”

...sounds a lot like...

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him,
we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy,
report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord
has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day
will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed"
:eek: Wow! :eek:
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Re: War with Iran

Postby OneDay on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:00 pm

:eek: :eek:
Exalt the Lord our God and worship at His holy mountain, for the Lord our God is holy.
Psalm 99:9
http://www.acwitness.org/psalm83english.html
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Sword of Geddon on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:36 pm

Resurrection Torchlight wrote:
I have to say, after reading what you posted, I searched on this myself and am stunned at the following article. It is the most thoroughly Biblical argument for who Mystery Babylon is I have ever seen (in my humble opinion), even though I have been a strong proponent of the America-New York-Babylon theory:

http://www.lookup.org/mysterybabylon.htm


Pretty much in total agreement with what was said at the link.

Another point is that we know that the antichrist will want to rule from Jerusalem, he seats himself in the temple calling himself God so it stands to reason that it will be the city that rules over the kings of the earth, both under the antichrist and then under Jesus Christ.

RT


Defiling the temple does not equate to wanting to rule from the area. Any events in the future relating to prophecy would logically have to be in development now. Mystery Babylon is not the nation/city that is ruled by the Antichrist, it is the Nation and city which rules over/controls the kingdom which will one day be ruled by the "antichrist", only to later be betrayed by the beast kingdom(which is not yet ruled by the "antichrist") and destroyed.

What nation today has filled the Earth with immorality? What nation has begun an assault on family values, which has spread to the rest of the west and beyond? America that is who. What city is the de-facto world capital? New York. What state, by the same name, has the only other BABYLON in the world outside of Iraq? New York. What nation has spread the practice of abortion? America. What nation has a leader(Obama) which is promoting homosexuality and enforcing "gay rights"? America.

Mystery Babylon is identified as the lost wings of the Lion, and it is said that the mother of Mystery Babylon(England) will be ashamed of her daughter(America/Mystery Babylon).

I will continue: Which nation had a godly, Judeo-Christian heritage but in the last 50+ years has been systematicly destroying it by changing the culture, banning public displays of Christmas or the ten commandments etc? America. Which nation claims to be a friend to Israel, but in reality is aligned with the Phillistines to destroy Israel? America.

The past three adminstrations have done much to harm Israel, don't deny it, it is the truth, look it up. George Bush only continued what Bill Clinton started. Clinton had Raim Emmaniel(remember him?) go to Israel and was the cause of Bibi's first loss of power in the Israeli government. Obama has been trying to destablize, with the help of his buddy George Soros, the government of Israel. Summer of 2011 there was an "occupy" style protest in Israel, this was months before "occupy" existed.

Finally, as I said earlier, the events of the future have their roots in the present. Beginning in the last years of the Bush administration, a massive, Vatican-sized "embassy" began construction OVER THE RUINS OF THE ANCIENT CITY OF BABYLON. It is being built to be a "US embassy". Remember reading about this years ago? Well construction has continued under the Obama administration. This city will likely be the new headquarters of the UN, which is the Beast Empire. Once it is no longer "ridden" by the US, the UN will increasingly start to, and act like, a world government. It won't be lead by the man of lawlessness until much later in end times chronology, when the fallen angel Apollyon appears and takes control.

What more proof does one need?
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding." Proverbs 3:5
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Re: War with Iran

Postby Sword of Geddon on Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:19 pm

Oh forgot one: What country is the lead supplier by far of pornography to the world? America.
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding." Proverbs 3:5
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