Putting Obama Before Christ

General discussion of candidates' campaign issues

Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby FreeInHim on Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:19 pm

Putting Obama before Christ
James L. Lambert - Guest Columnist - 11/3/2008 6:50:00 AM

A few days ago, I happened to be in the lobby of a medical office discussing politics with a woman who shared with me an interesting story. She had a friend recently tell her that even though Sen. Obama "advocated everything [she] didn't believe in" -- abortion, gay marriage, a bigger role of government in people's lives, higher taxes, etc. -- she was still "thrilled" to vote for Obama as president because he'd be the first black president in our country's history.

While an Obama presidency admittedly would be historic, a person's skin color obviously shouldn't be a criteria for voting for that candidate. Religion -- especially the Christian religion -- has deep roots in this country. Yet it seems that many people who claim the Christian faith are casting their religious values to the curb in favor of being able to claim a role in "a historic event."

Rev. Adlai E. Mack, senior pastor and founder of Christians United Church in San Diego, is alarmed by this trend. It was during the early 1970s, while working toward his bachelor's degree from Princeton University, that Mack was introduced to moral dilemmas such as abortion. He was influenced by Dr. Paul Ramsey, professor of ethics, who decried the technique of ending human life so cavalierly in the womb.

Rev. Mack agreed with Ramsey, and remains grieved that abortion harms so many -- especially those in the black community. According to the Life Education and Resource Network (LEARN) -- the largest African-American evangelical pro-life ministry in the country -- three out of five pregnant African-American women will abort their child.

Besides currently performing his full-time duties as a local pastor, Mack is a longtime Christian activist who routinely visits abortion clinics with the mission to persuade mothers to forgo terminating the life of their unborn child. Last week, Mack directed his thoughts to fellow believers in the church and to the black community at large.

He told this writer on Thursday: "If you're willing to sacrifice your babies, your children, and your business for Mr. Obama, you have that choice -- but I will not."

Mack continued: "If Obama wins, the babies lose. If Obama wins, your children will be discipled by homosexual [activists] in the public schools. If Obama wins, small businesses will suffer. Raising taxes would be the worst remedy during an economic downturn."

Rev. Mack notes that Senator Obama has the most liberal voting record in the U.S. Senate and is a longtime friend of abortion providers. Since joining the Senate in 2005, the Illinois senator has received a 100-percent rating from NARAL Pro-Choice America, the leading abortion advocacy group in the United States.

Furthermore, Obama has injected himself into the debate on gay marriage by denouncing Proposition 8, the California initiative that defines marriage as between one man and one woman. Most Christians agree that Christ himself has already defined marriage as between one man and one woman (Matthew 19:4).

On election eve, Mack concludes by asking his fellow believers: "Are you willing to sacrifice [your beliefs, your convictions] for this one man?"

I ask: Are you willing to put Obama before Christ?

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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby Final Trumpet on Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:39 pm

Sadly, there are many who do. And in doing so, they are incuring the wrath of God upon themselves.
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain; let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of Jehovah cometh, for it is nigh at hand
Joel 2:1


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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby mouserpg on Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:07 pm

This article took the words right from my mouth.
Isaiah 55:6-7 wrote:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby momma4Him on Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:34 pm

You can pray for babies in South Dakota, tomorrow on the ballot there is a measure the ban abortion in our state with the exceptions of rape, incest, or health of the mother. That would eliminate 97% of abortions in our state!!! Hopefully it will pass and be a domino effect on the rest of the nation!
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby mouserpg on Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:45 pm

I've heard of voters from other states coming to South Dakota to vote in favor for abortion. I hope it's not true...
Isaiah 55:6-7 wrote:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby momma4Him on Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:52 pm

I hope not either....I guess we better pray for that too, that they stay away!!!
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby Swayde on Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:12 am

momma4Him wrote:You can pray for babies in South Dakota, tomorrow on the ballot there is a measure the ban abortion in our state with the exceptions of rape, incest, or health of the mother. That would eliminate 97% of abortions in our state!!! Hopefully it will pass and be a domino effect on the rest of the nation!



Its a start. Personally I'd like to see rape and incest removed. It would be too easy to claim being raped to get an abortion, when most women who are raped can get a "morning after" pill anyhow. The only reason I could imagine taking a baby's life would be to save the mother's and even then, I personally would rather die because there is no love greater than giving up one's own life to save someone else. According to the Bible I just can't find any reason to justify murder via abortion.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby seraph on Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:22 am

Sadly, this mentality more deeply pervades American Christians than most people know. Even at my (very very conservative) seminary there are black pastors who are voting for Obama for the sole reason that his skin color is different. I do not understand this in the slightest, and it is deeply disturbing.

:cry: :praying:
By the blessing of the upright a city is exalted, But by the mouth of the wicked it is torn down. - Proverbs 11:11
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby El Gallo on Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:56 am

"Sacrifice" is a good word. What we are doing is as reprehensible as Baal worship.
What I say to you I say to everyone: Watch MK 13:37
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby kyle on Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:59 am

Swayde wrote:
momma4Him wrote:You can pray for babies in South Dakota, tomorrow on the ballot there is a measure the ban abortion in our state with the exceptions of rape, incest, or health of the mother. That would eliminate 97% of abortions in our state!!! Hopefully it will pass and be a domino effect on the rest of the nation!



Its a start. Personally I'd like to see rape and incest removed. It would be too easy to claim being raped to get an abortion, when most women who are raped can get a "morning after" pill anyhow. The only reason I could imagine taking a baby's life would be to save the mother's and even then, I personally would rather die because there is no love greater than giving up one's own life to save someone else. According to the Bible I just can't find any reason to justify murder via abortion.


Amen.

Here's my question. In some Muslim countries, if a woman is raped, the woman can be executed. I'm assuming something happens to the man, too, but regardless that's still disgusting. So why is it any different to execute the baby who is just as innocent a victim (or in some cases more so)? If that being inside of the woman is a baby then why is it OK to kill it because of somebody else's disgusting act? And if it isn't a baby, then why make it illegal at all? I can certainly sympathize with the victim of a rape who got pregnant, but that's no reason to kill an innocent baby.

As far as "the mother's health." I think that's too vague (there have apparently been people using the "mother's health" loophole for all kinds of reasons like "it will make my life more difficult" or "I'm depressed"), I would rephrase it "the mother's life" and even then, why not at least try to save the baby? Why not something along the lines of "we need to do an operation to save your life and it will probably cost the life of your baby. We will try everything we can to save the baby, but there are no guarantees and it's honestly very unlikely."
(Updated!) - Please pray for me - I very much need it

Also, (on a completely unrelated note to the prayer request) am I the only one annoyed with people labeling others as "false teachers" or "heretics" because they disagree with your timeline of events when according to Peter, even the prophets themselves didn't completely understand what they were writing? Debate is fine (and even fruitful at times), but let's save those labels for those who truly are false teachers and heretics (and in this day and age, there are plenty to choose from). As long as someone believes in a literal, future return of Christ, I'm fine with them.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby Salty Skipper on Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:05 pm

As far as "the mother's health." I think that's too vague (there have apparently been people using the "mother's health" loophole for all kinds of reasons like "it will make my life more difficult" or "I'm depressed"), I would rephrase it "the mother's life" and even then, why not at least try to save the baby?


I've known a mother to sacrifice her own life for her unborn baby. That's real love.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby kyle on Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:14 pm

seraph wrote:Sadly, this mentality more deeply pervades American Christians than most people know. Even at my (very very conservative) seminary there are black pastors who are voting for Obama for the sole reason that his skin color is different. I do not understand this in the slightest, and it is deeply disturbing.

:cry: :praying:


You could ask them how they're any different than the racist redneck in West Virginia (no offense to anyone from West Virginia - unless of course you are racist which is a sin that you need to repent of) that's voting for anyone else just as long as a black man doesn't become president. We seem to have no problem labeling that person racist, but we don't want to label the person who IS voting for Obama just because he's black as racist.

Then you could also direct them to http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/huntleybrown.asp

Of course at this point, it's probably too late, but it could make them think next election.
(Updated!) - Please pray for me - I very much need it

Also, (on a completely unrelated note to the prayer request) am I the only one annoyed with people labeling others as "false teachers" or "heretics" because they disagree with your timeline of events when according to Peter, even the prophets themselves didn't completely understand what they were writing? Debate is fine (and even fruitful at times), but let's save those labels for those who truly are false teachers and heretics (and in this day and age, there are plenty to choose from). As long as someone believes in a literal, future return of Christ, I'm fine with them.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby momma4Him on Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:27 pm

Two years ago, South Dakota did try to ban all abortions, no exceptions, but it failed around 60% to 40%. People said that they would have voted for it if the exceptions were in there. They rewrote the bill to include those exceptions. They rewrote it in a way that anyone who claims rape or incest has to turn in the perpetrator and an investigation be conducted before an abortion would be allowed. I personally liked the other bill better, but sometimes we have to take baby steps to get there. Also, it will still reduce the number of abortions overall in our state.

As far as the rape in a muslim country goes, I just read a story in Sunday's paper that says they stoned a 13 year old girl to death when she reported that 3 men raped her. According to the koran, there has to be 3 witnesses in order to convict someone, unless, of course, the woman turns someone in or gets pregnant.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby mouserpg on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:00 pm

Salty Skipper wrote:
As far as "the mother's health." I think that's too vague (there have apparently been people using the "mother's health" loophole for all kinds of reasons like "it will make my life more difficult" or "I'm depressed"), I would rephrase it "the mother's life" and even then, why not at least try to save the baby?


I've known a mother to sacrifice her own life for her unborn baby. That's real love.

My mother.
Isaiah 55:6-7 wrote:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby Salty Skipper on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:09 pm

mouserpg wrote:
Salty Skipper wrote:
As far as "the mother's health." I think that's too vague (there have apparently been people using the "mother's health" loophole for all kinds of reasons like "it will make my life more difficult" or "I'm depressed"), I would rephrase it "the mother's life" and even then, why not at least try to save the baby?


I've known a mother to sacrifice her own life for her unborn baby. That's real love.

My mother.


Praise the Lord for that Mouser!
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby zephaniah on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:50 pm

I'm glad to see a law like that on the ballot for SD, but my question is, how will Obama's plan to sign the Freedom of Choice Act affect the S.D. abortion ban if it passes? While it definitely would be encouraging to see people voting for pro life, I'm under the impression the Freedom of Choice Act will override any state law restricting abortion. Does anyone know if this is true or not?

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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby mark s on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:59 pm

That's what I understand, that since the FOCA is federal, then any state law that contradicts it would be overridden.

So IF Obama is elected, and IF FOCA becomes law, this does not look good for millions of little babies!
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby ACfrom Turkey on Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:43 pm

It certaintly gives insight into how "Christians" think in America now days. I also see many christians putting McCain before Christ.....sad.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby FreeInHim on Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:01 pm

mouserpg wrote:
Salty Skipper wrote:
As far as "the mother's health." I think that's too vague (there have apparently been people using the "mother's health" loophole for all kinds of reasons like "it will make my life more difficult" or "I'm depressed"), I would rephrase it "the mother's life" and even then, why not at least try to save the baby?


I've known a mother to sacrifice her own life for her unborn baby. That's real love.

My mother.


Mouserpg..... :comfort: God Bless your mother.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby mouserpg on Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:13 pm

ACfrom Turkey wrote:It certaintly gives insight into how "Christians" think in America now days. I also see many christians putting McCain before Christ.....sad.

I know what you mean. But when you use "Christians" as if supporting McCain is supporting the anti-christ, as if they're not really Christians but frauds and deniers of the faith, wolves in sheep's clothing, etc... I cannot agree with you at all. And I find that to be a very abusive comment. No offense is intended by my post.

I cast a vote for McCain. When I was at the ballot, I wanted to write in Chuck Baldwin, but I just couldn't do it.

There have been over 100 million babies aborted worldwide, and I truly believe that Obama would do a lot of damage both to our country and Israel. Obama wants to divide even Jerusalem, McCain simply wants a "two-state solution." The two-state solution, I can never support. More people have died in from Abortion than WW1, 2 and Stalin's murders combined. Yet, it would seem that Obama's support would dwarf that.

Over 50 million babies have been aborted in the United States since Roe vs. Wade, and China has aborted over 40 million female babies. Combined, that is over 90 million. That's just considering two countries, and not the whole world. Palin is against abortion under any circumstances. I refuse to support a Candidate who is for the unrivaled murder of babies.

Either McCain or Obama are more likely to win. I wish things were different. While voting, I was in prayer with the Lord. I prayerfully considered my candidate over the weeks, and I prayerfully considered my vote while at the Ballot. I had no leading or direction from the Lord on who to vote over the weeks. But when I was heading to the office, I was sure I would cast a vote for Chuck Baldwin, when I got there I couldn't do it. I told the Lord my reason for voting in prayer, and how I could not support the murder of over 100 million babies worldwide (it's probably way over 200 million). I know that abortions aren't illegal in Israel, that Israelite babies are being punished like the days of old, when their parents would sacrifice them to demons.

When I cast my vote, it was not for the support of a two-state solution, or globalization, but to stand up for the babies that have been killed, and will be killed, and also for freedom. I truly believe that Obama is an anti-christ that uses Christianity to get ahead, like Hitler and Castro did. Palin wants creationism to be taught in school as well. This is another big plus.

When it comes down to it, I can work hard to divert the McCain/Palin Adminstration's support of a two-state solution, and to support Israel every step of the way. I can sign petitions, I can write a letters to Palin as her brother in Christ to ask her prayerfully consider not dividing Israel. I can pray for the administration. Sure, I could have prayed for Obama too, but for all that he stands for, I cannot in good conscience support him at all.

If Obama becomes the next president of the United States, I am forbidden by the Bible to speak evil of him, and will pray for him and Biden. But I will not support their policies, and I am free to speak against the evils of his administration.

So, I do not believe that I put McCain before Christ. I agree that I put the Kingdom of God and it's Righteousness before this country. I could care less about the economy. Seek ye first The Kingdom of God and it's Righteousness, and all these things will be added onto us. If I am wrong, I will accept correction, but I voted for what I believe in.

How many more of those children who would have otherwise been aborted, would grow up to be our brothers and sisters in Christ, who would have otherwise been mighty men for the Lord? I cannot support abortion.
Isaiah 55:6-7 wrote:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby mouserpg on Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:26 pm

FreeInHim wrote:Mouserpg..... :comfort: God Bless your mother.

My mother survived too. She didn't think she would, but she did. An Angel of the Lord came and told her that both her and her baby would be fine. She refused to abort me, even if it cost her life. Here we are today, both alive and well. Sadly, my mother is still not a Christian in walk. I don't understand it.
Isaiah 55:6-7 wrote:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby zephaniah on Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:12 pm

I voted for McCain for basically two reasons. I know Palin is strongly prolife and knowing Obama plans on signing the Freedom of Choice Act. Otherwise, I really had planned on voting Constitution Party (it's the Tax Party here in Michigan for some reason).

Strangely enough, in the past I've had to vote for the democrat in our congressional races because he is pro life and proves it with his votes, while the GOP have been giving us prochoice republicans :roll: We did get a pro life repub to choose from this time.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby zephaniah on Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:24 pm

This country has lost its mind. Looks like S.D. is going to vote against the abortion ban. Also, Michigan is going to legalize marijuana for medical use. Seeing how oxycontin is abused royally I can only imagine how marijuana is going to be abused. We also passed the stem cell research proposition. LORD, come quickly!

But hey, on the bright side, I'll have my mortgage paid and free gas :roll: oh, I forgot, I didn't vote for Obama. Guess I missed out on all accounts.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby beeps on Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:20 am

I do feel sorry for you all over there, as your country has now embraced liberalisam, England has been in the grip of this for many, many years and hence we are in the state we are in now. The amounts of money and airtime bought by the Obama campaign where truly unbelievable, it smacks of brainwashing to me. We have a saying here in the UK. 'the proof of the pudding (desert) is in the eating'. i.e something can look good, but it's only till you get to taste it can you make a real judgement. I have been myself debating if I should vote in the next elections here, but there is no one that stands for pro life at all, and on this basis I can not vote.

We would do well to remember that there is only one person fit to run anything on this earth and thats Jesus. No president or primisnister is good enough to tie his sandle, however much money they spend in making themselves look good.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby noble1 on Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:13 am

Not to highjack this thread, but I take offense (lightly) to the comment made about oxycontin being highly abused. If you are a chronic pain patient like me and in need of pain meds just to function on a day to day basis, then you are not abusing them. I am thankful that at this point in time I am actually feeling much better and not in need of many of the meds I was taking after my double abdominal sugeries last fall and I credit it TOTALLY to God and all the prayers support behind me. Please do not bash the use of narcotics unless you know first hand that someone is truly abusing them. It is a case by case basis and not one to be broadly speculated at.
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Re: Putting Obama Before Christ

Postby kyle on Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:19 am

noble1 wrote:Not to highjack this thread, but I take offense (lightly) to the comment made about oxycontin being highly abused. If you are a chronic pain patient like me and in need of pain meds just to function on a day to day basis, then you are not abusing them. I am thankful that at this point in time I am actually feeling much better and not in need of many of the meds I was taking after my double abdominal sugeries last fall and I credit it TOTALLY to God and all the prayers support behind me. Please do not bash the use of narcotics unless you know first hand that someone is truly abusing them. It is a case by case basis and not one to be broadly speculated at.


I don't think he was saying that everybody that uses it is abusing it, only that it is being abused.
(Updated!) - Please pray for me - I very much need it

Also, (on a completely unrelated note to the prayer request) am I the only one annoyed with people labeling others as "false teachers" or "heretics" because they disagree with your timeline of events when according to Peter, even the prophets themselves didn't completely understand what they were writing? Debate is fine (and even fruitful at times), but let's save those labels for those who truly are false teachers and heretics (and in this day and age, there are plenty to choose from). As long as someone believes in a literal, future return of Christ, I'm fine with them.
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