Mecca Babylon?

[4givenmuch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY20IFaWlsQ

I thought I had heard all of the possibitilities, but this is new to me.
Mecca is Babylon, Saudi will be destroyed. Turkish AC.

It is a long video, but intriguing...

[kirthril]

yep, this is now my belief. Isaiah 21 pretty much solidified it for me. Sometimes we miss things reading it the 1st, 2nd, even 40th time through.

[Exit40]

Jdg 8:21
Then Zebah and Zalmunna said, Rise thou, and fall upon us: for as the man is, so is his strength. And Gideon arose, and slew Zebah and Zalmunna, and took away the ornaments that were on their camels' necks.

'Ornaments' are translated as moon, crescents.

2Co 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

The unclean thing is the black stone, now in Mecca.

God Bless

David

[SueAnn]

Are you referring to "Mystery" Babylon?

[kirthril]

Are you referring to "Mystery" Babylon?

Yes, he is. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Revelation have point out full well where it is located. Many Christians such as myself overlooked what is in plain sight. I smack my forehead for not noticing earlier.

1. A city on 7 hills
2. A city in a desert
3. by body of water that is a major shipping/trading lane
4. A center of a false religion
5. A religion who is responsible for mass persecution of Christians
6. A crown that has blasphemy
7. A wealthy city
8. "where arabs pitch their tents"
9. A nation which exports "wine" that nations are drunk off of...
10. The destruction stretches from Teman to Dedan, Kedar to Dumah (Isaiah 21), all ancient Arabian towns
11. The proclamation of "fallen, fallen is Babylon" is found in Rev, and Isaiah, and Jeremiah calls Arabia Babylon.
and more...

No other city on earth sits in a desert, on 7 hills, by a body of water, that is the center of religion, that persecutes Christians, which has a crown that denounces the Holy Trinity, whose nation exports a liquid that every nation must have, where Arabs pitch their tents, that include the towns/regions of Teman, Dedan, Kedar, Dumah...

Mecca is Mystery Babylon. Islam is the Harlot religion that has existed in many forms in history. You would be surprised about how the bible warns of worshipping the sun, moon, and star and how many ancient religions, including modern day islam, and their deities wore the Crescent moon surrounding a single star.
.............

Many western American Christians think the harlot is the Vatican and Rome is MB. But Rome nor the Vatican, are in a desert. Nor does Rome have a crown that speaks blasphemies against God for all to see. The catholics persecuted breakaway sects for a few centuries. But it is nothing compared to what Islam whose birthplace is in Mecca, Arabia has done to Christians. No other empire, government, religion, political entity on earth has enslaved (unknown number) or killed (200million and counting) as many Christians in our entire 2015 year history. I'd say God is a lot more wrathful towards Mecca than Rome.

Others who think America is MB point out Americas wealth and MB's wealth. But the bible never says MB is THE WEALTHIEST city or nation. Just simply it is wealthy and the city and nation trade in all sorts of goods. America also, recently over the past 70 years has made many bad decisions that have lead to persecution, but that comes nowhere close to what other empires or systems or Islam has wrought on people of our faith.

[SueAnn]

Are you referring to "Mystery" Babylon?

Yes, he is. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Revelation have point out full well where it is located. Many Christians such as myself overlooked what is in plain sight. I smack my forehead for not noticing earlier.

1. A city on 7 hills
2. A city in a desert
3. by body of water that is a major shipping/trading lane
4. A center of a false religion
5. A religion who is responsible for mass persecution of Christians
6. A crown that has blasphemy
7. A wealthy city
8. "where arabs pitch their tents"
9. A nation which exports "wine" that nations are drunk off of...
10. The destruction stretches from Teman to Dedan, Kedar to Dumah (Isaiah 21), all ancient Arabian towns
11. The proclamation of "fallen, fallen is Babylon" is found in Rev, and Isaiah, and Jeremiah calls Arabia Babylon.
and more...

No other city on earth sits in a desert, on 7 hills, by a body of water, that is the center of religion, that persecutes Christians, which has a crown that denounces the Holy Trinity, whose nation exports a liquid that every nation must have, where Arabs pitch their tents, that include the towns/regions of Teman, Dedan, Kedar, Dumah...

Mecca is Mystery Babylon. Islam is the Harlot religion that has existed in many forms in history. You would be surprised about how the bible warns of worshipping the sun, moon, and star and how many ancient religions, including modern day islam, and their deities wore the Crescent moon surrounding a single star.
.............

Many western American Christians think the harlot is the Vatican and Rome is MB. But Rome nor the Vatican, are in a desert. Nor does Rome have a crown that speaks blasphemies against God for all to see. The catholics persecuted breakaway sects for a few centuries. But it is nothing compared to what Islam whose birthplace is in Mecca, Arabia has done to Christians. No other empire, government, religion, political entity on earth has enslaved (unknown number) or killed (200million and counting) as many Christians in our entire 2015 year history. I'd say God is a lot more wrathful towards Mecca than Rome.

Others who think America is MB point out Americas wealth and MB's wealth. But the bible never says MB is THE WEALTHIEST city or nation. Just simply it is wealthy and the city and nation trade in all sorts of goods. America also, recently over the past 70 years has made many bad decisions that have lead to persecution, but that comes nowhere close to what other empires or systems or Islam has wrought on people of our faith.

Thank you.

[Mrs. B]

Mecca Babylon?

I believe the Modern Day world system with out God is Babylon..... America is modern day Babylon...spoken of in Revelations...when our sins are full.....

Gen. 10:8...And Cush begot Nimrod:
he began to be a mighty one in the earth..a hunter of man or made man slaves...OR WORKED MEN

9....He was a mighty hunter before the Lord: where it is said...Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord..

10...And the beginning of his Kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar...
Babylon begin in Genesis and is the MODERN DAY World System of Today......
Nimrod made slaves of men and built cities.....this is how they served in the beginning...until Jesus came a Preached the Spiritual Kingdom of God We

now live by Faith.....we work...without work it is impossible to please Him...But we Live and Obey Him By FAITH....OUR job is not our source...It is our Faith in Him.....we live in this world but we are not of this world.....The Just Live by Faith...Faith in Him.....He becomes our source....we seek Him and Follow Him...

what is faith? We belive the Living Word....Jesus said, I'll never leave you nor forsake you....Follow Me
We are to live by faith and follow Jesus by the leading of His Holy Spirit which he sent down on the day of Penticost...
We are born again...by the hearing of the Living Word of God....when we see Jesus and we put our trust in Him He comes to us in the Form of Our Need......food, shelter,healing, what ever is our need....He will come and make Himself known to us.....He is Our Savior....what ever we need....

Mrs. B

[plalgum]

Are the Saudi's clothed in purple and drink from golden cups?

[bchandler]

There is one important factor that often seems to get overlooked when discussing who "mystery Babylon" is.

Scripture says that they deal in the souls of men. In other words, they practice slavery, buying and selling people.

That leaves out all of the modern western world.

In fact, even though this is the first time I've ever heard the theory that an Islamic nation is mystery Babylon, as far as I know, only Islamic nations and some Asian nations actually still practice the slave trade.

What, about the idea that china is mystery Babylon? The whole world trades with china, and has become wealthy by utilizing their slave labor forces. China is most certainly drunk with the blood of the saints... Using imprisoned Christians for slave labor, and as living organ donor banks.

The whole world has ships on the sea that conduct trade with China... I can't think of another nation that has and uses slaves and trades by ship with the whole world besides certain oil producing Islamic nations, and China

[kirthril]

What, about the idea that china is mystery Babylon?

Mystery Babylon is both a religious city and the nation it sits in. Is there a city in china that is the center of a religion that sits in a desert by a body of water? Does such a city have a crown upon which blasphemy against God is written? No. China's persecution of Christians is only recent, since the advent of communism. You really think God is more angry at China for 50+ years of persecution than the religion that has persecuted for 1500 years and killed 200million?

Only Mecca in Arabia fits the bill. The problem many have, including my self before, is that they pick out one itty bitty description and then apply that to the whole. To figure out who/what/where MB is you need to apply every reference and description of it in the bible. Revelation, Jeremiah, and Isaiah have the most clear references to the end times Babylon. Isaiah and Jeremiah both label Arabia as Babylon to be utterly destroyed. Because Arabia has never been destroyed, turned into wilderness, uninhabitable, a place of "burning pitch" (oil), this is obviously a end times event. And the fact that Isaiah even says "Fallen, Fallen is Babylon" when mentioning Arabia and its towns show where it is located. Jeremiah also shows the towns to be destroyed "in an instant".

Isaiah 21: oracle against the "Desert by the Sea"
"Fallen, Fallen is Babylon"
Arabia, Seir, Dedan, Tema, Kedar, Dumah
watchmen give warning of impending doom

Jeremiah 49: Message about Edom
"Esau laid bare, his allies and neighbors"
"no one will live there or dwell there"
"at the sound of their fall, the earth will tremble and it shall be heard as far as the RED SEA"
Edom, Bozrah, Tema, Dedan
And envoy is sent to nation preparing for an attack
God will devastate this area in "an instant"

Revelation 17-18: Babylon the Prostitute on the Beast and destruction
John is carried in spirit to a DESERT
He sees a woman (city) sitting there
"Fallen, Fallen is Babylon"
A warning is sent before the attack
"in one day her plagues will overtake her"
Sea captains and those traveling by ship see her burn, denoting a seaside location of this city "was there ever a city like this?"
"in one hour she has been brought to ruin"
"with such violence, Babylon will fall"
"In her was found the blood of prophets and Gods holy people"
"smoke from her destruction will rise forever"
"Will take place on the Day of the Lord"
"she will be destroyed by fire"

Isaiah 34: Judgment against Edom
"sky will dissolve, heavens rolled up like a scroll, starry host will fall"
"judgment will descend on edom"
""his day of vengeance"
"streams will be turned to burning pitch" (oil)
"her dust to burning sulfur"
"generation to generation shall lay desolate"
"its smoke will rise forever"
.....................

Isaiah 21, 34 and Jeremiah 49 have not yet taken place. And clearly they are talking of the same devastating event since all locations are on the Arabian peninsula. Obviously future since Arabia is still inhabited. Isaiah laments "fallen is Babylon" when talking about the fall of Arabia. Why would he call it such? John of Revelation gives the answer. Because Mecca, Arabia is a city on seven hills, which sits in a desert, by the sea, that is a major shipping lane, that has exported a religion that has done nothing but persecute Gods holy people. Notice the destruction is not just the city of Mystery Babylon, but the entire nation stretching from southern Arabia to the southern parts of Jordan.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/media.wbur.org/ ... a-hajj.jpg
Here you can see mecca and its 7 hills upon which the woman (city) sits (her throne).
The "hill" upon which that massive building in the center sits, is called "Mount Babel"
The massive building in center also consists of 7 towers.
At the spire, the crown of the tallest tower sits the Greek number 666 as mentioned in Revelation.
At the spire, the crown of the tallest tower writes a blasphemy against God
At the spire, the crown of the tallest tower it writes "there is no god but allah and muhammad is his prophet" "in the name of allah".

Now compare the image above with this: http://www.hampshirebarninteriors.co.uk ... tons.1.jpg

Now can you see why Revelation says she sits as QUEEN???
.................

Are the Saudi's clothed in purple and drink from golden cups?

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/180812 ... Cup_in.jpg
https://kochipost.files.wordpress.com/2 ... 574118.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... a8ecae.jpg
http://38.media.tumblr.com/fa17acf0c008 ... qz4rgp.jpg
http://trends4ever.com/wp-content/uploa ... othing.jpg
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/601083 ... 20x220.jpg

Besides, the scarlet and purple the woman wears is not a reference to what the people wear. I believe the bible makes clear what purple and red stand for. Red for blood, for the holy people she has killed. Purple for wealth, she is rich. These definitions meant that back then, they retain the same definitions today, red=blood, purple=wealth.

[kirthril]

I also want to point out that Mystery Babylon is also accused of being a Harlot. A Harlot that has prostituted its false religion over the face of the earth.

The bible gives us a clear warning not to worship a certain thing:

Deuteronomy 4:19: And beware lest you raise your eyes to heaven, and when you see the sun moon and stars, all the host of heaven, you be drawn away and bow down to them and serve them...

Mesopotamia: Baal and Ashteroth
Egypt: Osiris and Isis
Assyria: Assur and Istar
Babylon: Bel and Belit
Persia: Mithra and Anahita
Greece: Helios and Artemis
Rome: Apollo and Diana

Each and every single one of these religions from which the people of Israel interacted with and were even dominated and ruled by, worshipped a male and female god represented by a crescent moon and star.

Islam: Allah and sun goddess (no name seems to be given her)

what am I trying to say?

The harlot religion has always existed throughout history. Satan posing as different gods and different empires and cities making up the center of that religion. The harlot has always existed, Mystery Babylon has ALWAYS existed and today in the modern era, she has her home in Mecca. The current iteration of the Crescent moon/star religion that began in Mesopotamia during the days of the tower of Babel is Islam.

[shorttribber]

Great posts Kirthril,
I think you are exactly correct on this.

[1whowaits]

Rev 17 states that Babylon is the city that rules the world, at the time of the AC. In Dan 11 the AC sets his royal tents at the beautiful holy mountain, which would be Jerusalem. In 2 Thess 2 the AC sets himself up as god in God's temple in Jerusalem. In Rev 17 the AC hates the city that rules then world and in Zech 14 at armageddon the nations gather and are destroying Jerusalem under the leadership of the AC in Rev 19.

Babylon is drunk with the blood of the saints, in Matt 23 :35 Jesus states that all the righteous blood shed will be upon Jerusalem. Isa 51 states that Jerusalem has the cup that makes her stagger, the goblet of His wrath, that is given to her tormentors. Jerusalem is called a prostitue in Ezek 23, who commits adultery and drinks the cup. Jerusalem is called a city on 7 hills and the priests wore purple and scarlet (Ex 28)

Jerusalem is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt in Rev 11, why not figuratively Babylon? Scripture interprets scripture, no need to look any further, imo.

[kirthril]

Rev 17 states that Babylon is the city that rules the world, at the time of the AC.

The city of MB rules the beast/rides the beast. Not the whole world.

Jerusalem is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt in Rev 11, why not figuratively Babylon? Scripture interprets scripture

Why not? Because of what you posted. If the AC sets himself up in Jerusalem as Daniel says he will. Then why would he destroy it.

Read all of revelation 17 and 18. Babylon is literally wiped off the face of the earth. Desolate, NEVER to inhabited again from generation to generation. In one day and one hour it is destroyed. God hates the city so he allows the 10 kings to destroy her.

So no. It can't be Jerusalem. God loves Jerusalem. The AC will try to rule from there. Jerusalem will never be desolate and will be the center of Gods kingdom. The AC has no reason to destroy Jerusalem. The goal of the AC is not to destroy Jerusalem, but to rule from it. The pesky Hebrews will be in his way fighting to the very end thus why it is under attack until the very moment Jesus steps foot on the Mount of Olives. AC is led by satan. What is AC/satans goal? "I will ascend to the throne of God". Satan wants to sit on God's throne. His throne on earth is in Jerusalem. Why would the AC/Satan destroy it? The whole point is satan wants to move his throne (in Pergamum, turkey) to Jerusalem. Can't do that if it has been nuked.
........

Jerusalem is figuratively called Sodom and Gomorrah. Notice the bible actually tells you that it is figurative. Notice the bible does not tell you the name MB is a figurative name of any known city. MB, therefore, stands as a figurative name for a city that was unknown to John in his time.

[GodsStudent]

Hi kirthril: Some very interesting posts here. I have been one who, outside of some of the thinking here, deducted that America most fit the description of mystery Babylon, and with your insights here, for the first time in a long time, I am willing to seriously look at this new theory...it fits quite nicely with scripture, as you've pointed out.

[1whowaits]

K, i would agree the AC rules from Jerusalem, likely because it defies God, which is Satan's goal. But when it is time for Jesus' return, all nations are gathered to armageddon and then attack Jerusalem and begin to destroy it and take the people into captivity, which Jesus stops, according to Zech 14. John is likely astonished when he sees the woman in Rev 17, because he realizes the city is Jerusalem, his capital city, the city of God taken over.

And note that i limited my comments regarding Jerusalem as being mystery Babylon to Rev 17. There is some debate on why what is depicted in Rev 17 is so different from the city depicted in Rev 18, as if 2 different things are being described. The common interpretation is that rev 17 is describing a religious system while Rev 18 is describing a specific city. But Rev 17 and 18 indicate that both chapters are describing cities.

Rev 18 begins with a transition to a new angel describing the city who repeats 'Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the great!'. The repeating of fallen is believed to indicate that Babylon falls twice.

This appears to be supported by Dan 7 and the description of 4 beasts, which are all present at the time of the end (the beast was slain....the other beasts had been stripped of their authority but were allowed to live for a period of time..). The 4 beasts may parallel the previous kingdoms of Dan 2, but those kingdoms no longer exist, while the kingdoms of Dan 7 do exist at the time of Christ's return.

Mystery Babylon, the kingdom of the AC, would be the 4th beast, the beast with 10 horns. But another Babylon is described prior to this kingdom, the first kingdom is described as lion with wings of an eagle, which is a symbol associated with Babylon (ancient Babylon was associated with a depiction of a lion with eagles wings and at times with a man's head).

Dan 7 appears to be describing 2 different Babylons. the kingdom of the AC, likely Jerusalem, and another different Babylon that exists earlier and still exists in some form when Jesus returns. This could account for the different descriptions of Babylon in Rev 17 and 18, the descriptions are telescoped. The Babylon of Rev 17 is associated with the AC and rules the world at the time of the AC. In Rev 18 no mention is made of the AC, the city appears to be a seaport of great wealth that trades with the world.

While there is a Babylon associated with armageddon, the Babylon of the AC, in scripture there is another Babylon that is associated with the destruction of Damascus, described in Jer 50-51. Also the destruction of a nation associated with outstretched wings is described in Isa 18 and associated with the destruction of Damascus in Isa 17.

Who could this other Babylon be, this city that the sea captains mourn for? This city that precedes the kingdom of the AC, this city of eagles wings?

[plalgum]

Kithril said.......... what am I trying to say?

The harlot religion has always existed throughout history. Satan posing as different gods and different empires and cities making up the center of that religion. The harlot has always existed, Mystery Babylon has ALWAYS existed and today in the modern era, she has her home in Mecca. The current iteration of the Crescent moon/star religion that began in Mesopotamia during the days of the tower of Babel is Islam.



It goes further,right into the Catholic church.The Madonna and child,is nothing more than Semiramis (wife of Nimrod) holding her child which is the reincarnation of Nimrod.

[kirthril]

It goes further,right into the Catholic church.The Madonna and child,is nothing more than Semiramis (wife of Nimrod) holding her child which is the reincarnation of Nimrod.

Im no catholic, but that is borderline blasphemy. Every picture I saw on google when I typed in "Catholic Madonna" (as I was curious to what you were referring to) was of as plain as day Mary and Jesus. Not a single one bore a crescent moon and star. As per the definition:

"Madonna" in Italian stands for "my lady" and is used to describe all images of Mary or of Mary w/ Jesus. "My lady" is the mother of Jesus, Mary. And that child is Jesus. Careful...

I know we protestants were born and bred to despise and look at Catholicism with a leary eye because of what happened 600ish years ago, but lets not be like the Pharisees and Sadducees who accused Jesus of being a demonic agent.

[plalgum]

Believe me Kithril, I am not being blasphemous by saying what I have said.The catholics would rather pray to the virgin than directly to our Lord.They would rather appeal to Mary to intercede on their behalf rather than go boldly unto the throne of grace Heb 4:16.

The catholic church is full of idolatry and paganism

I would not ever ever contemplate nor let alone in any way call our Lord demonic,perish the thought.I should have explained myself more clearly.Peace brother.

[Exit40]

Mary, Jesus' mother, is revered by muslims, and has an entire chapter devoted to her in the koran. fwiw

God Bless

David

[plalgum]

Mary, Jesus' mother, is revered by muslims, and has an entire chapter devoted to her in the koran. fwiw

God Bless

David

Thats because that book was written by Augustinian monks under the supervision of the pope in the 5th century!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_qYcJ-GSZc

[kirthril]

I understand, which is why I said "borderline blasphemy". Your not intentionally suggesting Mary is a satanic diety just because she gets some form of worship.

Mary is a real person. She was the mother of our Lord Jesus. She however, nor "the Madonna" images follow the outline I presented above.

As Plalgum correctly stated, Nimrod and his wife (who was actually his mother, Semiramis is the mother of all religions. SHE IS the HARLOT. Semiramis is credited with creating all the false polytheistic religions of the world today and together they led the ancient people of Babylon against God. Thus, Semiramis is the original Harlot, and Nimrod the original god king of this world.

From these 2, every polytheistic religion mimicked Nimrod and Semiramis. And I showed the dieties above. All are false gods, created out of thin air that do not exist. They also are all represented by a crescent and star, and artifacts and statues, paintings and writings will show them associated with such. Which means, yes, Islam is a polytheistic religion, as they even admit ignorantly that allah's wife was the "sun goddess".

The statue/paintings, murals of "Madonna" do not follow this in any way shape or form. Mary exists. Jesus is our Lord. Just because catholics show a form of worship by praying to Mary does not mean she/jesus fall in the same category of these made up gods. Satan is boastful and proud of who he is, hiding himself in plain sight cause he knows most will not see him, which is why all these false gods and images of them portray the crescent moon and star. Allah, for example, even boasts "I am the Great Deceiver"... Satan does not shy of putting himself in our face

You will not find a single painting/statue of Mary/Jesus with these two heavenly bodies other than the image revelation presents us with Mary standing on a moon with a crown of twelve stars. All these other gods have the moon/star above the forehead. So this is why I said "borderline blasphemy", because you did so out of ignorance, rather than willful purposeful deceit.

The catholics will have to answer for their prayers to Mary just like we will have to answer for our love of money or that lie we told our parents... But I wouldn't ever suggest that Mary is entangled with Isis, Ishtar, Ashteroth...

(just saw your PM plalgum and replied) If you wish I can add that to this discussion as I believe it has a important point (near end of reply).

[Exit40]

Mary, Jesus' mother, is revered by muslims, and has an entire chapter devoted to her in the koran. fwiw

God Bless

David

Thats because that book was written by Augustinian monks under the supervision of the pope in the 5th century!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_qYcJ-GSZc

Let's not get started on conspiracy stuff please. Here is a legitimate refute.

http://shoebat.com/2014/02/04/catholic- ... t-islam-2/

God Bless You

David

[plalgum]

I believe that Mr Shobat is married to a Roman Catholic,curious,so was Mahamed???

[kirthril]

I believe that Mr Shobat is married to a Roman Catholic,curious,so was Mahamed???

1. Irrelevant
2. No, she was the daughter of one of Muhammad's closest followers, so no, she was muslim too

I now believe that the truth is that Satan caused the division of the church, by division, one cannot stand or be united, always fighting, harboring distrust. It is because of the division of the church that we look at each other with suspicion, namely us protestants. Catholicism is one of the original forms of Christianity, the entire book of Romans, was dedicated to who??... The Roman church. The Coptics of Egypt is another original form of Christianity formed directly by one of the apostles. Same with the eastern Orthodox. Protestantism is not a original form Christianity, so we need to get off our high horse.

I believe satan intended this schism. While the catholics, coptics, orthodox are looking towards the middle east for the coming AC, as they have been for 2000 yrs, we instead are looking at them, accusing them of leading the world astray. Is the pope apostate? Has Europe gone apostate? Is Catholicism, which has brought more people to Christ than any other sect gone apostate? YES. But I dare anyone say we protestants are any better. Anyone wanna take a look at what some of our fellow protestant churches are teaching and or accepting?

The protestant and catholic churches will be healed by God soon enough. Our differences will be put aside once our true enemy is revealed. The apostates on both sides will be flushed out. As Exit40 said, no time for conspiracies. Time to drop the centuries old animosity. There is not one thing you can say about the catholic church that is not also true for us protestants. Both have fallen to idols (the form and shape do not matter), Both have a allowed the world to influence scripture rather than scripture influence our worldview, both are allowing worldly practices into the church, both have leadership in which $$$ is in the eyes...
................

Ok, enough ranting. Sorry. I used to believe the catholic church was the Harlot, and Rome MB because that's what I was taught and simply believed. Until I started reading and studying myself. Until someone can do what I have done above (that which was shown to me through questioning), and make these same exact points using scripture to describe the Harlot and MB and apply it to the church of Rome, they are not the ones we should be looking at. Rome, Catholicism, simply does not match Revelations description, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel nor history.

If the future of the Roman church is to be destroyed, please show where in Romans (or any other book) God says so, as that entire book is dedicated to them. If Rome is MB then why is it a "Mystery"? As Rome is a known entity. Every city, every nation, every tribe that is to undergo a specific judgment for a specific sin is mentioned BY NAME in the bible. Mystery Babylon is the only one that is not. So MB MUST be a entity/city that was unknown at the time. It cannot be Rome.
..........

The AC will attack Rome, as Rome is part of the "western coastlands" or "chittem/kittem" that sends its navies against the AC to defend Egypt. But it will not be destroyed.

[plalgum]

Can someone explain this to me.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcpVrtv2t-M

[kirthril]

The video is misleading. VERY misleading. Lucifer in Latin means "bringer of light", "morning star", "light bringer" etc.. and is used to describe not only Satan, but God and Jesus as well. The word Lucifer appears in the bible many times, and several of those times it clearly isn't referring to satan but to Jesus/God.

From wiki:
Later Christian tradition came to use the Latin word for "morning star", lucifer, as a proper name ("Lucifer") for the devil; as he was before his fall.[16] As a result, "'Lucifer' has become a by-word for Satan/the Devil in the church and in popular literature",[12] as in Dante Alighieri's Inferno and John Milton's Paradise Lost.[10] However, the Latin word never came to be used almost exclusively, as in English, in this way, and was applied to others also, including Jesus.[

Lucifer didn't always stand for the devil. Lucifer is a descriptive word (in latin) not a proper name. The devil's name is Satan, Lucifer, a description, means light bringer and is used to refer to any celestial body or bright spiritual being, including Jesus.

Here is an example:

2 Peter 1:17-19:
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Catch that? Depending on your translation "day star" "morning star" in Latin would be "Lucifer". This passage in 2nd peter if you read all of it clearly isn't referring to Satan rising in our hearts as a means to determine a prophecy from God. But rather this "day star" is the light of truth that points us in the right direction.
...................

That video is either a intentional or a non-intentional means to deceive and get Christians fighting each other. Satans name is Satan, not Lucifer. Lucifer is a adjective to describe a bright object. The prayer in Latin at the beginning of the video, properly translated to English goes like this:

"His flame "bringing light" to His own creation..."
"May I say, O "morning star", who knows no setting..."

One cannot translate all but one word from one language to another. If one is going to translate, translate 100% of the words, rather than the one to start controversy. This is deception and intended to cause fights. Once again, in the early church "Lucifer" was used to describe both Jesus/God and Satan due to the fact that the bible describes and even calls all 3 as beings shining of light. God emanates/radiates light, Jesus is the light of the world and he too radiates light, Satan was a bright angel. The adjective "Lucifer" would be used to describe all 3 in Latin.

The problem is that at some point the church decided to use "Lucifer" a adjective as a proper name in place of Satan. And that's why the confusion if you ever read the bible in Latin or hear a Latin prayer whenever a being of light or bright celestial body is referred to.

[plalgum]

It appears to me that with Rome and Mecca we have a SUPER MASSIVE DICHOTOMY !!!

[Exit40]

It appears to me that with Rome and Mecca we have a SUPER MASSIVE DICHOTOMY !!!

Around here we call it the War between Good and Evil. The Church, Jerusalem, and in the hearts and minds of men is where it is waged. The world's greatest battles are fought in these places. And the Truth shall set you free.

God Bless You

David

[Exit40]

It appears to me that with Rome and Mecca we have a SUPER MASSIVE DICHOTOMY !!!

Around here we call it the War between Good and Evil. The Church, Jerusalem, and in the hearts and minds of men is where it is waged. The world's greatest battles are fought in these places. And the Truth shall set you free.

God Bless You

David

[kirthril]

It appears to me that with Rome and Mecca we have a SUPER MASSIVE DICHOTOMY !!!

And that titanic split led to the crusades and this titanic split will lead to another sacking of Rome. One must remember it was Rome and its church that sent tens of thousands of Christians to their deaths to try and hold off the Islamic horde sweeping across Europe. Tens of thousands more to the middle east to fight behind enemy lines. But at the same time, Rome and Mecca were never together to begin with in order to have a split. The Romans never went deep into Arabia. The original church had no influence over the people of Arabia. Even though Christians and jews in Arabia, they were not under Roman authority.

In the link Exit40 posted, Walid Shoebat even shows that one of the first orders mohammad gives his followers is to kill a certain type of Christian. "Ones who hair is cut like a crown, bald at the top". This meant monks, catholic monks. He said leave the other "heretics" alone. So even mohammad knew the difference between a true Christian and the false Christian sects that were beginning to pop up around that time as well.

True Catholicism is fundamentally opposed to Islam, and true Catholics will fight this evil again when the time comes. I agree, the leadership has been hijacked by those who let the world influence scripture rather than vise versa. But I wouldn't let their actions speak for the fundamentality of the catholic faith.

[plalgum]

I rest my case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07dPzM5q43c

[kirthril]

sigh...

[plalgum]

[quote="kirthril"]:doh: sigh...[/quot

I'm not interested in what the Roman Catholic church was,I'm concerned about what it is now becoming and how it will effect you and me tomorrow.

[kirthril]

Won't affect you and me if we don't let it. They are becoming what Protestantism is becoming. Lukewarm. Why focus on one and not the other? The decline for both is the same. One may have a prominent leader but the actions of both sects are identical throughout.

I ask again, look at the evidence I presented to see the true harlot religion and where her home of MB really is.

[plalgum]

Won't affect you and me if we don't let it. They are becoming what Protestantism is becoming. Lukewarm. Why focus on one and not the other? The decline for both is the same. One may have a prominent leader but the actions of both sects are identical throughout.

I ask again, look at the evidence I presented to see the true harlot religion and where her home of MB really is.

Yes I agree it is a very compelling argument and I shall watch it very closely as it develops,but let us not rule out any AC chicanery!