Mary

Discussion and debate of Religions that contradict scripture

Issues with MOTHER MARY

Postby electric on Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:58 pm

Passion wrote:So it would seem that, after Jesus came along, Mary had at least seven more children. Some "virgin"! :disappointed:



Ok everyone,
A warning needs to be spoken here. You all need to be very careful about what & how you speak about Mother Mary, and how you judge her worth in Heaven and on Earth. PLEASE seek the answer to this in prayer. Now, Im not a catholic, I am not a follower of the Pope, but I have respect for the Chosen Mother of GOD on earth...

I CHALLENGE YOU ALL TO READ WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN BELOW.

First off, Out of all the women from the beginning of time to the end, GOD ALMIGHTY choose one woman, Mary - to be the physical mother of his only begotten Son Jesus Christ.

"And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." Luke 1:28

She was a virgin. She was proclaimed Holy & Blessed by God through the very act of being chosen to carry Jesus Christ. Now she conceived by the Holy Spirit. Ever felt the Holy Spirit illuminate your body? Now image that experience being so much more intense, that you actually become pregnant with God's own Son, the savior and King of Heaven.

NOW, do you really believe that after she gave birth to the SON of GOD, it went down like this, "now that Ive become pregnant by the HOLY SPIRIT, and gave birth to GOD'S OWN SON, let's see what it's like to have sex with a man, and have some regular kids?" - That is Blasphemy against her, against her son the Lord Jesus Christ, against God!

You are using the scriptures: Matthew 13:55-56 as your proof that Jesus had brothers, meaning Joseph and Mary started having sex and having pure human kids.

HOWEVER, that is error in use of scripture! Newer translations use the term "brothers". The Authoritative King James version which is more accurate scripture uses the word "brethren", not brothers. Now reguardless of the use of the word "brethren" or "brothers" or "sisters", all of these terms have to do with how they associated with each-other in those times. An example would be, think of your best friend. If you were living in the times of Jesus, you would refer to your best friend as your brother or sister... Is this really so un-common even in our day and age? I had a real close friend that I called my brother, but he wasnt my litteral brother.

Hebrews 3:12 says this in King James Version:
"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God."

Now in New International Version:
"See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God."

Now, if we looked at the this scripture, and the use of the words "brethren", "brothers" or "sisters" in the same way (that many of you are attempting to prove that the Holy Virgin Mary started having sex after she gave birth to Jesus Christ the Son of God, and had more children) - then do you also claim that Paul was preaching to a group of his brothers and sisters; the children of his parents - in this scripture of Hebrews? Of course not.

Now lets look at Matthew 1:25 which reads in the authoritative King James version: Joseph took Mary to be his wife "and knew her not until she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS." Now some newer translations have boldly changed this into a statement that Joseph and Mary didnt have sex until after Jesus was born. However, most of the translations Im checking on Biblegateway STILL use the scripture that Joseph "knew her not". Let's go even older and closer to the original scripture... the Greek Interlinear says Joseph "knew not her". This can simply mean, he didnt know much about her, he didnt really know who she was, they were strangers... Anything. These ancient scripture are clearly different than new translations which say (they didnt have sex until after Jesus.)

Obviously these new translations were done by those who hold the same viewpoint as many of you do, about Holy Mother Mary being "hardly a virgin". - which is also blasphemy.

If you dont agree, what about the story of Moses. The King James verison says: "Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph." -Exodus 1:8
So the new Egypt king "knew not Joseph". Obviously this doesnt mean the same thing as "knew her not", right... only if you are interpreting it as being about sex. Otherwise, if you interperate it as meaning - lack of knowledge about the other person, who they are, what they are like.. etc, it can mean the same exact thing in both scriptures.

However as opposed to them translating it in a sexual way, (as they did about Mary and Joseph) - most new translations kept it as, the new king "did not know Joseph".


NOW I CHALLENGE YOU WITH A QUESTION:
If Jesus Christ literally had brothers and/or sisters, who were not just his "close friends", but Mary and Joseph's children created by sex, then WHY (when He was about to die on the cross) did He worry about His Mother Mary being left alone? WHY did He worry about who was going to take care of Her? WHY did he then CHARGE John, to take the role of being Mary's care-taker, her step-in son on earth, who then took her to his own home to take care of her?????????
"When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home." - John 19:26-27

Now going over this, Mary was chosen among all women, and ordained by God to be blessed among women - by being the one woman to conceive the Son of God, by the Holy Spirit, and to be in authority over Him as a child, as his mother. TECHNICALLY - The ordained Mother of God on earth. The Bible calls her a VIRGIN. In Revelation 12, Mary was CROWNED with 12 stars.

HOW CAN ANYONE (ESPECIALLY CHRISTIANS) DARE CAST JUDGEMENT ON HER, and sarcastically snicker and mock and complain about someone proclaiming that she is in Heaven sitting at the right hand of God? The most HOLY and IMPORTANT woman that ever walked the earth, chosen by GOD ALMIGHTY to impregnate with His HOLY SON JESUS CHRIST >
HOW CAN ANYONE (ESPECIALLY CHRISTIANS) DARE CAST JUDGEMENT ON HER WORTH AND PLACE IN HEAVEN?
HOW CAN ANYONE (ESPECIALLY CHRISTIANS) DARE CAST JUDGEMENT ON HER WORTH AND PLACE HERE ON EARTH?
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Postby Salty Skipper on Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:17 pm

Mary absolutely did not remain a virgin. She was not and is not deity. She was fully human and lived and died as such.
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Postby DallasMinistries on Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:25 pm

Respect Mary - Absolutely!
Revere Mary - Absolutely!
Love Mary - Absolutely!

Worship Mary - Absolutely Not!

seems simple and clear enough to me...
:banana:
Last edited by DallasMinistries on Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Salty Skipper on Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:26 pm

I would like to clarify by saying that Mary was a virgin at the time of her conception of Jesus. She did not remain a virgin after Joseph took her as his wife because the scriptures clearly state that children were born of the union after Jesus.

NOW I CHALLENGE YOU WITH A QUESTION:
If Jesus Christ literally had brothers and/or sisters, who were not just his "close friends", but Mary and Joseph's children created by sex, then WHY (when He was about to die on the cross) did He worry about His Mother Mary being left alone? WHY did He worry about who was going to take care of Her? WHY did he then CHARGE John, to take the role of being Mary's care-taker, her step-in son on earth, who then took her to his own home to take care of her?????????


If you read more into it than what the scriptures say, you have twisted the truth.
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Re: Issues with MOTHER MARY

Postby mark s on Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:53 pm

but I have respect for the Chosen Mother of GOD on earth...


Hi Electric,

I'm certain you realize that "Mother of God" is a very questionable term. I hardly imagine that you mean that God did not exist until conceived within Mary.

But leaving that aside . . .

NOW, do you really believe that after she gave birth to the SON of GOD, it went down like this, "now that Ive become pregnant by the HOLY SPIRIT, and gave birth to GOD'S OWN SON, let's see what it's like to have sex with a man, and have some regular kids?" - That is Blasphemy against her, against her son the Lord Jesus Christ, against God!


No disrespect intended, but it seems to me that you are the one being sarcastic here.

But why would you think it blasphemous that Mary and Joseph obey God's command to fill the earth with people?

Are you thinking that Jesus shouldn't have grown up with brothers and sisters? Why in the world not? How is a healthy sexual relationship between a husband and wife sinful? Paul declares it the responsibility of both husband and wife.

Where in the Bible do we see the physical relationship in marraige denigrated?

Concerning your arguments about Jesus' brothers not being His actual brothers, and Joseph "knew her not", your interpretations are quite against the plain and clear reading of the text, and have been well answered by many others, and I'll not take the time to repeat all of that here.

NOW I CHALLENGE YOU WITH A QUESTION:
If Jesus Christ literally had brothers and/or sisters, who were not just his "close friends", but Mary and Joseph's children created by sex, then WHY (when He was about to die on the cross) did He worry about His Mother Mary being left alone?

I don't see where the Bible says Jesus was worried about Mary being alone, or that He was worried about who would care for her. Actually, Jesus would not have worried about His mother's provision, knowing the Father would care for her needs, just as He had taught in the Sermon on the Mount.

WHY did He worry about who was going to take care of Her? WHY did he then CHARGE John, to take the role of being Mary's care-taker, her step-in son on earth, who then took her to his own home to take care of her?????????
"When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home." - John 19:26-27


While God does not explain this action, we can only speculate. Many think that it is because Jesus' brothers didn't yet believe in Him.

Now going over this, Mary was chosen among all women, and ordained by God to be blessed among women - by being the one woman to conceive the Son of God, by the Holy Spirit, and to be in authority over Him as a child, as his mother.
Wait a minute. What happened to Joseph? He would share responsibility for raising Jesus just the same as Mary. Why would you sidestep that?

TECHNICALLY - The ordained Mother of God on earth.

There it is again. The Mother of God. Interestingly, a term the Bible never uses. Again I ask, did God not exist until conceived within Mary? Of course He existed before Mary was born.

Let me ask you: Did God have authority over Mary, or are you saying that Mary had authority over God?

The Bible calls her a VIRGIN.
Yes, when Jesus was born. But she is not called that afterwards . . .

HOW CAN ANYONE (ESPECIALLY CHRISTIANS) DARE CAST JUDGEMENT ON HER,
Who is casting judgment? I am not judging Mary, I am defending her when I state in no uncertain terms that she is not the "Queen of Heaven", which is a pagan idolatrous false diety.

and sarcastically snicker and mock and complain about someone proclaiming that she is in Heaven sitting at the right hand of God?

My friend, I do not snicker and mock, rather I tremble and fear for the one who elevates Mary to such a position which she herself would decry.

That Mary would encourage attention be taken from Christ and given to herself is unthinkable to me. And completely unBiblical.

Love in Christ,
Last edited by mark s on Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Postby D4Christ on Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:58 pm

:a3: to what you said Mark S.
"1 Now, dear brothers and sisters, let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him....3 Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction."

--2 Thessalonians 2: 1,3
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Postby joyfulchild on Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:12 pm

:grin: Mark S-thank you BROTHER for speaking so clearly and calmly and logicly re the original poster to this thread.Thank you for speaking my thoughts EXACTLY.It is the APPARITIONS that we do NOT worship ALSO.No one is saying we dont RESPECT Mary. :( BUT BUT BUT we DO NOT bow down/worship and most definitely WE DO NOT PRAY TO HER.
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Postby Dave123 on Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:16 am

Only one command of Mary is recorded in the Bible. At the wedding in Cana she tells others to do what her son says. She understood. The disciples understood (later). This generation and its fixation on Mary does not. If you focus on Mary your focus is not on God.
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Postby Rich Kelley on Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:58 pm

Luk 1:46 And Mary said: "My soul exalts the Lord,
Luk 1:47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
Luk 1:48 "For He has had regard for the humble state of His bondslave; For behold, from this time on all generations will count me blessed.


Notice Mary saw need of a savior? Luk1:47 She knew she was a sinner, and needed a Savior.

Notice all generations will count her blessed, not Holy, without sin.
Rich
Jesus is the only way, get over it.
There are 30,000+ denominations/divisions in the body of Christ. Why?
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Postby kazbo on Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:36 pm

Luke 11:27 While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "(S)Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed."

28 But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are (T)those who hear the word of God and observe it."

That exchange recorded in the book of Luke would have been the perfect opportunity for Jesus to lift his mother above others as an example to us, if that was his wish. Instead, he states, "on the contrary". Essentially he says that those who obey God are more blessed than if they had given birth to Jesus.

(credit where credit is due - this is from something I read by John Ankerberg. It stuck with me.)
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