Evangelicals vs. Catholics

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Evangelicals vs. Catholics

Postby geauxsaints on Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:31 pm

The Other '08 Religious Controversy: Evangelicals vs. Catholics


By Jerod Patterson
The Center for Vision & Values | Tuesday, August 28, 2007

Few would bat an eye at recent news of an evangelical pastor and fellow Christian conservatives engaged in a political fight in Iowa. But there’s a twist to this story. The Christian conservatives were fighting each other.


Various news outlets have reported that Rev. Tim Rude, a Des Moines area pastor and supporter of former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee’s Republican presidential campaign, sent an email to evangelical pastors who pledged support to rival candidate U.S. Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas in an attempt to siphon away their support.


Huckabee and Brownback, having managed second and third place finishes respectively in the recent Iowa straw poll, are both vying for the much coveted support of evangelical conservatives in the state, the same voting bloc that positioned then Gov. George W. Bush for the Republican nomination in 2000.


Rev. Rude wrote to the fellow pastors: “I know Senator Brownback converted to Roman Catholicism in 2002. Frankly, as a recovering Catholic myself, that is all I need to know about his discernment when compared to the Governor’s.” In contrast, he referred to Huckabee, a former Southern Baptist pastor, as “one of us,” and openly questioned why evangelicals would choose to support a Roman Catholic over a fellow evangelical.


When the email surfaced, the Brownback campaign denounced it as part of an anti-Catholic whisper campaign. Huckabee summarily distanced himself from it, calling Brownback “a Christian brother.” But invoking familial ties does not obscure the obvious family tension that Rev. Rude’s impolitic comments revealed.


Of course, tension is nothing new to the relationship between Protestants and the Catholic Church. Ever since Martin Luther nailed his theses to the door in Wittenberg and the Protestant reformers eschewed their allegiances to Rome, tension has existed.


But the irony here is that, theological tension aside, over the past three decades politics has been the single greatest agent of unity—not division—among Catholics and evangelicals in America. Since the late 1970’s their combined strength has coalesced to form a colossal conservative political force in both state and national politics.


One would think that a politically engaged evangelical such as Rev. Rude would recognize friend from foe.


Politics as an impetus for Catholic and evangelical unity is not only an American phenomenon, nor one without historical precedent. And in fact, sentiments such as Rev. Rude’s are not without precedent either.


In 1891 Abraham Kuyper, a Dutch Calvinist theologian and political leader of the Protestant Antirevolutionary party, faced a similar situation. Kuyper had successfully facilitated a coalition between the Antirevolutionary and Catholic parties that won a majority government four years earlier. But critics of the alliance with the Catholics forced Kuyper to defend the move.


Speaking at his party’s convention, Kuyper said: “our Roman Catholic countrymen confess with us: ‘Whence he will come again to judge the living and the dead.’ … the cry of Maranatha (meaning ‘our Lord is coming’) resounds from their lips as well as from ours and aligns us with them over against all other parties.”
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Postby crmann on Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:50 am

Hi, Geauxsaints...

What is your take on this article? I would be interested in discussing it from your point of view.

Love ya,

YBIC,

Cleveland
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Postby geauxsaints on Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:37 am

I just thought that it was interesting how both groups have similar goals in the political process. The issues concerning them both are the same abortion, gay marriage, prayer in schools and virtually every other moral issue in politics today.

Working together to get things like that done will help our country as a whole. Christians fighting against each other and all the divisions are the work of the devil. We can't even unite when we have a common fight.

Thats just the way it will be during the tribulation, christians turning in there own brother because he is from a different denomination.
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Postby BKF on Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:30 pm

Thats just the way it will be during the tribulation, christians turning in there own brother because he is from a different denomination.
I believe it will be those who don’t fit in with the evangelical/catholic social/political gospel, the “resisters” or those “fundamentals”. I doubt very seriously it will be protestant and catholic’s going against each other, because they are coming together more and more every day.
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Postby crmann on Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:33 pm

I just thought that it was interesting how both groups have similar goals in the political process. The issues concerning them both are the same abortion, gay marriage, prayer in schools and virtually every other moral issue in politics today.

Working together to get things like that done will help our country as a whole. Christians fighting against each other and all the divisions are the work of the devil. We can't even unite when we have a common fight.


Hi, Geauxsaints...

I think of the following scripture: Matthew 10:34
Don't assume that I came to bring peace on the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

When man takes it upon himself to try to improve the world, he's trying to do the work of God. And, he's not doing what God would want him to do.

In Matthew 28:19-20 we are told to Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

If we will do this, God will do the rest. Our job is to take the Gospel to all people. Nowhere in the Bible are we told to try to make people live righteous lives. God wants people's hearts, not good behaviour. Many good people will never take part in the resurrection. Those who know Him as Lord and Savior, will.
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Postby geauxsaints on Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:06 pm

crmann wrote:
I just thought that it was interesting how both groups have similar goals in the political process. The issues concerning them both are the same abortion, gay marriage, prayer in schools and virtually every other moral issue in politics today.

Working together to get things like that done will help our country as a whole. Christians fighting against each other and all the divisions are the work of the devil. We can't even unite when we have a common fight.


Hi, Geauxsaints...

I think of the following scripture: Matthew 10:34
Don't assume that I came to bring peace on the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

When man takes it upon himself to try to improve the world, he's trying to do the work of God. And, he's not doing what God would want him to do.

In Matthew 28:19-20 we are told to Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

If we will do this, God will do the rest. Our job is to take the Gospel to all people. Nowhere in the Bible are we told to try to make people live righteous lives. God wants people's hearts, not good behaviour. Many good people will never take part in the resurrection. Those who know Him as Lord and Savior, will.


Jesus says he has not come to bring peace to the world but a sword, are christians of the world? Jesus brings us peace joy and love. He doesn't cause confusion and divisions among christians. Nearly everywhere in the bible when Jesus mentions His church he is giving us peace.

So we shouldn't try to improve the world around us?

Righteousness/good behavior and faith go hand in hand, a true christian can't have one without the other.


1 Corinthians 7
35I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.
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Postby Rich Kelley on Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:52 pm

I doubt very seriously it will be protestant and catholic’s going against each other, because they are coming together more and more every day.


There is a large part of what would be called protestant that is coming to together with more than just the Catholic Religion. Forces are being joined with any Religion or Organization that will; bring peace, wipe out disease, bring everyone together to "Just get along". The kingdom now, take charge ideas.

Christians were first called Christians at Antioch. If your Religion does anything not done in the New Testament Churches, you should find another name to refer to your beliefs.
Rich
Jesus is the only way, get over it.
There are 30,000+ denominations/divisions in the body of Christ. Why?
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Postby christian_m0mmy on Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:02 am

geauxsaints wrote:Jesus says he has not come to bring peace to the world but a sword, are christians of the world? Jesus brings us peace joy and love. He doesn't cause confusion and divisions among christians. Nearly everywhere in the bible when Jesus mentions His church he is giving us peace.

So we shouldn't try to improve the world around us?

Righteousness/good behavior and faith go hand in hand, a true christian can't have one without the other.


1 Corinthians 7
35I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.


Be careful. Don't forget the AC is coming with promises of peace....then takes it back, but still...that's why Jesus said what He did, He's not coming back for peace.
Col 2:6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him

Col 2:6 You have accepted Christ Jesus as your Lord. Now keep on following him.
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Postby Sue-M on Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:07 am

crmann wrote:
I just thought that it was interesting how both groups have similar goals in the political process. The issues concerning them both are the same abortion, gay marriage, prayer in schools and virtually every other moral issue in politics today.

Working together to get things like that done will help our country as a whole. Christians fighting against each other and all the divisions are the work of the devil. We can't even unite when we have a common fight.


Hi, Geauxsaints...

I think of the following scripture: Matthew 10:34
Don't assume that I came to bring peace on the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

When man takes it upon himself to try to improve the world, he's trying to do the work of God. And, he's not doing what God would want him to do.

In Matthew 28:19-20 we are told to Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

If we will do this, God will do the rest. Our job is to take the Gospel to all people. Nowhere in the Bible are we told to try to make people live righteous lives. God wants people's hearts, not good behaviour. Many good people will never take part in the resurrection. Those who know Him as Lord and Savior, will.


I agree, Oldtimer. I don't believe that we CAN do one thing without God. We can't "save" the world, meaning spiritually or physically. We can do NOTHING. And man continues to look to man to do the work. Instead, we should look to God for all things. God can fix everything with the blink of His Eye. Seek FIRST God's Kingdom and God's Righteousness and THEN everything else will be given to you.
Luke 21:28

When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.
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Postby brandon on Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:42 pm

Thats just the way it will be during the tribulation, christians turning in there own brother because he is from a different denomination.


Christians will certainly not be turning other Christians in. If anything, persecution will annihilate divisions between those born of the Spirit. God doesn't care if you're Protestant or Catholic or whatever. You can have perfect theology and still go to hell if you're not born again.

The "conservative bloc" that is referred to in this article I believe missed the point for over 30 years. We've tried to accomplish through our own flesh, voting, protesting, and generally throwing our weight around enough to not accomplish any real moral strides. Let's look at the results of our multiple decades of Evangelical Associations being pandered to by politicians. We got a "Christian" president into office who is publicly celebrating Ramadan. We got a nation even more morally bankrupt and sin loving, where the government is getting ready to put the slammer down on preaching against homosexuality, as if railing publicly against a single form of wickedness is going to bring our nation to repentance.

We have received the reward of our handiwork, which is God allowing it to crumble. We did it on our own. We came up with the plan and rolled it into action. Now we have "churches" that are filled with people who are really no different than anybody else, except that they "attend church" on Sundays and give 10% of their income to pay the mortgage and the salaries of the staff.

Judgment must start in the house of God, which means us. The house of God is NOT the place on the hill with the steeple. We are the house of God. He dwells in me, and where I need cleaning up is where judgment begins. The local body of Christ gets judgment after I've received it and my family's received it. Instead of having fantastic oratory blasting the sin of the nation, how about blasting the sin of the people who claim to be Christians?

Judgment is coming to America because of the state of the Bride of Christ here. We're divided unbiblically, scattering Christians around with false converts in buildings. People are driving 50 minutes to "go to church" at the latest fad instead of ministering to their own town or city. We spend our time enjoying the latest worldly pleasures (mine has been online FPS games that I've had to repent of and die to). Ray Comfort's right on with the "stony ground hearer" bit on false converts, but I'd say the other great problem is the amount of professing Christians who have thorns choking their fruit to death. Read Hebrews 6 and you'll find that the thorny ground hearer goes to hell, too.

Instead of a holy minority of Spirit filled believers who are total bond slaves of Christ, we've relied on a moral majority. If God wants you to vote conservative, that's great, but I bet if you asked, He might be more interested in a night of fervent prayer than you going to vote. The Lord may not even want you to vote. I've been told that many Christians in China are praying for persecution to come to America because, in their eyes, if we were acting like Jesus, we'd be being persecuted, which is a biblical viewpoint.

I don't believe that making America "moral" again is going to help her citizens one real iota. The masses are still going to hell, and voting conservative is not slowing them down. And I'm not saying don't vote or don't vote conservative. I'm saying ask God what HE wants you to do, and then do it, voting or not voting. We can't assume because the candidate is publicly pro-life that God is interested in electing Him.
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