13 Ton Temple Corner Stone to Be Presented to the People

[1whowaits]

Walrus, OK i will try again as it appears that you are not thinking this through and you are inserting your own assumptions. No one has sated that the Jews must rebuild the temple to come to Christ, that is your own assumption. The Jews come to Christ through faith like everyone else, the temple is not necessary for this.

And yet the scripture does describe a literal temple during the millenium and during the 70th week, that is what the scripture indicates repeatedly. The scripture describes sacrifices during the millenium and during the 70th week. The scripture describes celebration of the feast of Tabernacles during the millenium and the choosing of Levites, the priests of the temple.

The question is not whether it will happen, as clearly it will happen, the scripture does describe these theings, the question is why?

Obviously it is not for salvation or the forgiveness of sins, no one needs a temple or sacrifices to accept Christ, so there appears to be some other reason.

The only reasonable conclusion for the millenium is that as Jesus rules completely during the millenium, and as Zech 6 describes Jesus building the temple, it would appear that Jesus wants a temple during the millenium. And apparently Jesus wants sacrifices and Levites appointed and the feast of Tabernacles to be celebrated during the millenium.

Why does Jesus want this- I could speculate but i don't know, the scripture doesn't state the why directly, just that it will happen. Apparently while Jesus is on the earth He wishes worship to occur in a certain way, that is up to Him, and that is what the scripture describes.

And this type of worship is not contrary to scripture, in fact this is the way in which the Father wished to be worshipped by the Jewish people in the OT, the One that is the same today as He was yesterday.

If the Jews rebuilt the temple today and worshipped Jesus in the temple, would that be contrary to scripture? No, there is no prophibition against worshipping Jesus in the temple, we would call such a place a church. And the early church did worship in the temple as scripture indicates.

So the problem is not the rebuilding of the temple, it is what goes on in the temple, the temple can clearly be rebuilt and be consistent with Christianity.

Does having Levites or priests in the temple violate christianity? No, if the priests worship Christ and point the way to Him, they are not contrary to christianity, they are considered 'pastors' or clergy.

Does celebrating the feast of Tabernacles run contrary to christianity? No, there are many Mesianic Jews who have accepted Christ who still observe the appointed feasts, they are still christians and they know that salvation is only through Christ.

So if Christ is worshipped, there is no scriptural prohibition for the rebuilding of the temple, the training of Levites or priests, or the celebration of the feast of Tabernacles. And this is what the scripture points to as occurring during the millenium, Christ will be worshipped in the temple, the priests will be His priests, the feast of Tabernacles will focus on Him.

So if the Jews decided tomorrow they wanted to rebuild the temple to worship God, the rebuilding of the temple itself is not contrary to scripture. In fact, as Jesus rebuilds the temple and is worshipped in it during the millenium, as God provides a detailed plan for the temple in Ezek, the rebuilding of a temple to worship God appears desirable and is sanctioned by God.

It is not the rebuilding of the temple itself that is a problem, it is what goes on inside that temple that may or may not be a problem, it is who is worshipped and how they are worshipped.

Scripture indicates that the Jewish people will rebuild a temple during the 70th week, as Rev 11 describes, so that will happen.

So should our desire be to stop them from rebuilding the temple, to 'spit upon' the cornerstone of that temple, to reject the Jewish people as 'enemies of God', or to try to influence what goes on inside that temple?

[IamtheWalrus]

Walrus, OK i will try again as it appears that you are not thinking this through and you are inserting your own assumptions. No one has sated that the Jews must rebuild the temple to come to Christ, that is your own assumption. The Jews come to Christ through faith like everyone else, the temple is not necessary for this.

Sorry..that isn't what I read in this thread, but I will let you and others thumb back to see.

And yet the scripture does describe a literal temple during the millenium and during the 70th week, that is what the scripture indicates repeatedly.

Where does it say "there will be a rebuilt temple in the 70th week of Daniel"? That is an assumption and an interpretation of misguided hermeneutics.

The scripture describes sacrifices during the millenium and during the 70th week.

No it doesn't...it describes sacrifices in a temple, more elaborate than any existed temple, including sin sacrifices (Ezekiel 43), a temple that never came to be, which wopuld be as long 3 miles in length.

The scripture describes celebration of the feast of Tabernacles during the millenium and the choosing of Levites, the priests of the temple.

This it does in Zech, however, this was written in captivity or exile, in which was a message of hope for the people, currently, and for the future in Christ, the living temple.

Obviously it is not for salvation or the forgiveness of sins, no one needs a temple or sacrifices to accept Christ, so there appears to be some other reason.

So why do you suppose the temple in Ezekiel is the temple in the millenium...Christ is the center of worship at this time, not the sacrifices of animals in Ezekiel 43.

And this type of worship is not contrary to scripture, in fact this is the way in which the Father wished to be worshipped by the Jewish people in the OT, the One that is the same today as He was yesterday.

Here is where you steer clear off the path. He is the same...Jesus was always there, however, the system was very different under the Misaic Law than it is today. Something I feel you are overlooking.
That OT husband died on the cross, and is risen for them to marry again. This did not happen, so therfore we have what we have...no temple on earth, just living temples in the saints.

If the Jews rebuilt the temple today and worshipped Jesus in the temple, would that be contrary to scripture?

Of course not, but that isn't the plan from what I have read. Silly to suppose it.

So if the Jews decided tomorrow they wanted to rebuild the temple to worship God, the rebuilding of the temple itself is not contrary to scripture.

As long as Jesus is the center of worship, without sacrifice and oblation.

In fact, as Jesus rebuilds the temple and is worshipped in it during the millenium, as God provides a detailed plan for the temple in Ezek, the rebuilding of a temple to worship God appears desirable and is sanctioned by God.

For the old covenant, because the sacrifices noted are not sufficient anymore, just Jesus' blood.

Scripture indicates that the Jewish people will rebuild a temple during the 70th week, as Rev 11 describes, so that will happen.

No it doesn't and where?

[Mrs. B]

13 Ton Temple Corner Stone to be presented to the Peole.....




Jesus is the Chief Corner Stone.....and we are Lively Stones that make up the Temple of God here on this Earth...

We are Priest and Kings and we rule and reign with Christ....This is for today...But the Church has Fallen so far away they don't believe the Doctrines of Christ.....
We look to man's doctrine instead of the Doctrine of Christ...

Man says it is all passed away......it ended with the death of the last apostle....
but that is not what the Bible Teaches.....This is the day of the Falling Away from Truth....
We teach another Gospel...not the Gospel of the Living Word of the Bible....
Today Preachers preach another Jesus....another Christ


People cannot see the Truth because they have been brain washed to believe lies....

Just Go back just to the Words of the Bible.....Not the watered down versions of the Bible but the King James Version....and believe what is written and God will give you the unerstanding....
Seek Truth......Seek Truth and God will open your spiritual eyes and ears and you will see and understand....

We must be willing to Go Back to the Bible........That is all we need...
The Holy Spirit and the Word agree......and if you have the Holy Spirit in you....Jesus said you shall know the Truth and the Truth will set you free....


The Two Witnesses......Will be Young Men Full of the Holy Ghost and Power and they will do Signs and Wonders to Prove the Word of Truth.....and they will be hated because the people love not the Truth....But prefer lies...
They Will Witness to the Truth........and be hated and killed....just like in a court hearing.....we have witnesses to the accident or crime or what ever.......and they give testimoney to what they saw....
So.....the Two Witnesses will give Testimoney to the Truth.......and be hated and killed.
They will have Power......the same power that is given to the Church today....but we deny it....because of our wrong believing.......They will Give Witness to Jesus and His Teachings.......

When my husband and I became christians....we were taught Christian Church Doctrine....

One day my husband was in the back yard studyihng his bible and he said to the Lord.....I don't think I believe this scripture.........and Jesus said to him.....One of Us is Wrong...and it is Not Me...
we had to have our minds renewed by the Word.....and lay aside all the false we had been taught..
When we received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.......we were put out of the Church...
If we would deny that we had the Gift of the Holy Spirit and we spake in Tongues....they said you can stay...
but only if you teach the Christian Church Doctrines....

So we were Promoted......Praise the Lord......God Called Us Out.....so today Jesus is Calling out a People who will Glorify Him and His Doctrine....

To Follow the Truth of the Gospel today is not Popular.....The Devil is doing all he can to cause people to believe a lie....We must be willing to conform to the Living Word....We must have our minds renewed by the word....
we must believe what God says......and not what man says, he says.....


Seek Truth......and walk in it.....God is Faithful....and if we are sincere to know the Truth he will Reveal it to us....
It is God's Good Will that we walk in Truth.....

bb

[IamtheWalrus]

1WW, we can't agree all the time LOL

My friend, it is not that I don't understand or fail to see in your view, as is many a view, but what I do see, is the contradction of such physical, literal, enacted offering such as the ones in the Mosaic system. What I see, now, after seeing it your way, and others to say the least, is that the Mosaic system was completely fulfilled in Christ. The OT saints and prophets, knew the depth and meaning to their offerings, and tried to describe what was revealed to them in their understanding, to the people of Israel, so that the message could get across...alas only to a remnant, each time in the history. Luckily, for us, His plain is pre-ordained, and knew/knows the outcome, and a remnant was there, at Christ first advent, to pass the torch onto the Gentiles, to fulfill the promise of the saints.

Now spread the word!

[1whowaits]

Walrus, certainly we disagree on these things, but i would agree that the Mosaic system was fulfilled in Christ, and for us that system no longer applies. But most who read these passages that do describe a millenial temple take that description literally, and there is nothing in scripture that would appear to prohibit such a temple from being built.

I believe we will soon see an event like Gog-Magog after which Israel will come to the realization that God really does exist and God will make Himself evident to them. But knowing God, I believe in some way He will once again give Israel the opportunity to choose Christ, they will once again be presented with a choice.

How this will occur i have no idea, whether the 2 witnesses are involved, or someone in the messicanic community presents Christ, or some lowly christian from somewhere confronts the nation with Jesus, it would make sense that God would give Israel the opportunity to choose Christ before they revert to the old sacrifical system after they realize that God does exist.

It does appear from scripture that they do choose the old sacrifical system, at least the majority does, but there is a remnant that will eventually choose Christ.

But what if the nation of Israel chose Christ right at the beginning, what if the nation of Israel accepted Christ as Savior and Messiah toward the beginning of the week, could the 70th week be cut short at that point as the purposes for Israel listed in Dan 9 would then be fulfilled? I realize that this would be unlikely, but those of us in the christian community should always be ready to present Christ to one or all of the Jewish people, whenever the opportunity presents itself, because it may soon present itself.

Israel is in a very precarious position at this time, and things will likely become more difficult for her in the near future, as it will for all of us. And God does indicate in scripture that He longs for the day that Israel (Ephriam) returns to Him, and that day is likely not far off, especially if Israel begins to rebuild the Temple.

[savedbygrace]

I see the walls of the temple are several hundred cubits, man, those are some mighty big saints. And water flows from the temple, does that indicate that the saints have a bladder problem?

[1whowaits]

SBG, yeah, if that passage is symbolic of the saints then we got big problems. lol

[IamtheWalrus]

1WW,

I agree...Israel, being a sovereign nation and state is definitely an act of God, Him bringing them back to Him, as the prodigal son, but a rebuilt temple in scripture IMO, from my eyes, I don't see it. I see it, especially in the OT, pointing to Christ's first advent. Rev 11, again, like. Ezekiel's, is a measuremnet, not a commandment to build it. Zech 14 reveals no such temple either, but rather an altar, the feast of tabernacles, and "and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts. "

First of all Zech 14 is pointing to Zerubbabel's temple, not a millenial. He is speaking to those in captivity, reminding them that the words of Jerimiah will be fulfilled, that they will return to their land and honor their God.
The issue here is that many, including yourself, forcefit the imagery and symbolism of the OT and place it in the end times, when the imagery and symbolism here in these areas, and most areas of the OT, point to Jesus, and His first advent, not second. In order for us to understand the end times literature of the NT, we do indeed must turn to the OT to unlock the imagery and symbolism, but not to confuse it with them happening at the same time. What I see consistently in this circle, is the mapping out of timelines, or instances, such as "the Day of the Lord" and grouping it together so that all they all are speaking of the same time, when they are not, then attempting to fit the scripture surrounding it into such a place. OT prophecies of the Day of the Lord, mainly cover Christ's first advent. He is the focus of prophecy, nothing else.

[milo3]

I found this posted on another website, but it looks the Temple Mount Faithful put out an email detailing what happened on Jerusalem Day. Check it out.


The Temple Mount Faithful Presents the Cornerstone for the Temple Mount on Jerusalem Day

Last week, in celebration of Jerusalem Day and in preparation for the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem, the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement successfully brought the 13 ton cornerstone for the Third Temple to the streets of downtown Jerusalem.

As we explained previously, Jerusalem Day is one of the most important public holidays in Israel. It celebrates the Six Day War, in which Israel, with the help of G-d, liberated all of Judea, Samaria, Gaza, the Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula. It was in the Sinai where G-d gave the Holy Torah to the children of Israel. It is also the place where G-d anointed them to be His chosen people, to be a light to the nations, a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.

This is the day that the G-d and people of Israel have expected and desired for 1,897 years. The G-d of Israel appeared in this godly war as Israel was attacked by her Arab enemies from all sides. G-d commanded His Israeli forces exactly as He did during biblical times. End time prophecy became a reality and was fulfilled in six days. This war was not an accident. The G-d of Israel made it clear that He expected His Temple to be rebuilt. It is then that He will open a new godly time in the life of Israel and all the world, just as He prophesied through His prophet Isaiah:

"The word that Yesha'yahu the son of Amoz saw concerning Yehuda and Yerushalayim. And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all the nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the G-d of Ya'aqov; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth Torah, and the word of the Lord from Yerushalayim. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall decide among many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." (Isaiah 2:1-4)

All of our plans that we stated in our previous letter were fulfilled, thanks to G-d. They brought hope, encouragement and joy to Israel. We felt the presence of the G-d of Israel among us. He deeply inspired our spirits and hearts. We knew that we were doing G-d's Holy work for Israel and all the world.

This great occasion was one of the most exciting and major events that Israel has experienced during this special end time age. The G-d of Israel appeared to the people of Israel during this godly event. We knew that soon He will resume leadership over all the earth from His Holy Temple on Mount Moriah in Jerusalem. With this godly inspiration, the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement came on this Holy day to the people of Israel and all the world to present the 13 ton cornerstone so that the rebuilding of the Third Temple may begin soon.

On our way to the Temple Mount, we demonstrated in front of the United States consulate in Jerusalem. We stood against the pressure that is growing from US President Barack Obama and His administration to divide the Land of Israel in order to establish an Arab terrorist state inside the sovereign Land of Israel. This land belongs to Israel alone. It was given by G-d in an eternal covenant for His people Israel for a Holy purpose: so that they would be a Holy nation, a kingdom of priests and a light to the nations (Exodus 19:5-6). We shouted out to President Obama just as we said we would: "Take your hands off the Land of the G-d and the people of Israel and off Jerusalem!" We warned him of the dreadful consequences, as stated by the Prophet Joel (Joel 4:2).

We danced as we reached the Jaffa Gate in the Old City of Jerusalem. There, we blew the silver trumpets and swore our faithfulness to Jerusalem. From there, we ascended to the Holy Temple Mount. As we stood there we felt the presence of the G-d of Israel among us calling us to go to His people Israel and to all the world and to share with them His call to rebuild immediately His Holy Temple so that He may again dwell among His people Israel, in the midst of all mankind.

This exciting and historical event will never be forgotten in all of the history of Israel and all the world. It opened a new era for all of us. It was actually the first step towards the rebuilding of the Temple in our lifetime.

Everyone is called at this historical godly moment to actively join, come and stand together, and help the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement to complete her major and historic godly campaign to build the Temple of G-d and to bring to pass all of G-d's end time prophetic expectations and plans for Israel and the entire world.

In the G-d of Israel we trust!

milo3

[1whowaits]

milo3, thanks for posting that.

Walrus, we could not be farther apart in our understanding of scripture.

[Mrs. B]

Paul writes to the Romans....


Romans 10:1.....BRETHREN, My Heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they might be saved.

2....For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, But not according to Knowledge...

3...For they being ignorant of God's Righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.....

4....FOR CHRIST is the End of the Law for Righteousness to Everyone that believeth....

5...For Moses describeth the Righteousness which is of the Law.......That the man which doeth those things shall live by them..


6....BUT....the righteousness which is of Faith speaketh on this wise....
Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

7....OR..Who shall descend into the deep? (that is to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

8...BUT What saith it?
THE WORD IS NIGH THEE...EVEN IN THY MOUTH,
AND IN THY HEART......THAT IS THE WORD OF FAITH....Which we Preach


9...That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath Raised Him from the dead....thou shalt be saved/

10....For with the heart man believeth unto Righteousness;
and with the Mouth Confession is made unto Salvation....

11.....For the Scripture saith......
Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed...

12...FOR...there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:
for the same Lord Over all is rich unto all that call upon Him...

13...For Whosoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved....


21....But to Israel he saith...
All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a Disobedient and gainsaying people...


Rom. 12:25...For I would not, Brethren that ye should be ignorant of this Mystery...lest ye should be wise in your own conceits:
that blindness in part is happened to Israel, Until the Fulness of the Gentiles be come in...

26....And so...All Israel shall be saved:
as it is written...There shall come out of Sion the Deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27...For this is My Covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins....

28...As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:
But as Touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake (Abraham, Issaac, and Jacob the fathers)
God Promised....

29...For the gifts and Calling of God are without repentance....


A Short Work....
Romans 9:28...For he will finish the work, and cut it short in Righteousness:
Because A SHORT WORK WILL THE LORD MAKE UPON THE EARTH.....

Daniel....9:27....And He (Jesus) shall confirm the Covenant with many for one Week:
and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease....

Jesus is the Sacrifice ......the Blood Sacrifice will cease
this is the 2300 days...in the midst of the week....the sacrifice will cease.....the doors will be shut...in the Temple in Heaven....
and then the 7 Vials will be poured out on the world...

and for the overspreading of abominations...He (Jesus) shall make it desolate, even until the consumation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolator(Satan)

in the midst of 2300 days...when the Witnesses finish their Testimony....The the Vials are poured out on the wicked...
the 2300 days is the short work....it is finished....

bb

[kazbo]

Thanks for that, Milo. I was wondering if they accomplished it. I see they've posted something about it on their site but clicking through to the article isn't working ("not found on server"). http://www.templemountfaithful.org/

[savedbygrace]

It looks to me that the Temple Mount Faithful are determined to build the third temple in the near future. The presenting of the 13 ton cornerstone on Ascension Day last week could have been the event that will start a renewed effort.

[Mrs. B]

This could be the beginning of the end...

bb

[Final Trumpet]

Ok, finally an update. The info posted below was the email they sent. the link is not working from their website.

The Temple Mount Faithful Presents the Cornerstone for the Temple Mount on Jerusalem Day

Last week, in celebration of Jerusalem Day and in preparation for the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem, the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement successfully brought the 13 ton cornerstone for the Third Temple to the streets of downtown Jerusalem.

As we explained previously, Jerusalem Day is one of the most important public holidays in Israel. It celebrates the Six Day War, in which Israel, with the help of G-d, liberated all of Judea, Samaria, Gaza, the Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula. It was in the Sinai where G-d gave the Holy Torah to the children of Israel. It is also the place where G-d anointed them to be His chosen people, to be a light to the nations, a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.

This is the day that the G-d and people of Israel have expected and desired for 1,897 years. The G-d of Israel appeared in this godly war as Israel was attacked by her Arab enemies from all sides. G-d commanded His Israeli forces exactly as He did during biblical times. End time prophecy became a reality and was fulfilled in six days. This war was not an accident. The G-d of Israel made it clear that He expected His Temple to be rebuilt. It is then that He will open a new godly time in the life of Israel and all the world, just as He prophesied through His prophet Isaiah:

"The word that Yesha'yahu the son of Amoz saw concerning Yehuda and Yerushalayim. And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all the nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the G-d of Ya'aqov; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth Torah, and the word of the Lord from Yerushalayim. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall decide among many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." (Isaiah 2:1-4)

All of our plans that we stated in our previous letter were fulfilled, thanks to G-d. They brought hope, encouragement and joy to Israel. We felt the presence of the G-d of Israel among us. He deeply inspired our spirits and hearts. We knew that we were doing G-d's Holy work for Israel and all the world.

This great occasion was one of the most exciting and major events that Israel has experienced during this special end time age. The G-d of Israel appeared to the people of Israel during this godly event. We knew that soon He will resume leadership over all the earth from His Holy Temple on Mount Moriah in Jerusalem. With this godly inspiration, the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement came on this Holy day to the people of Israel and all the world to present the 13 ton cornerstone so that the rebuilding of the Third Temple may begin soon.

On our way to the Temple Mount, we demonstrated in front of the United States consulate in Jerusalem. We stood against the pressure that is growing from US President Barack Obama and His administration to divide the Land of Israel in order to establish an Arab terrorist state inside the sovereign Land of Israel. This land belongs to Israel alone. It was given by G-d in an eternal covenant for His people Israel for a Holy purpose: so that they would be a Holy nation, a kingdom of priests and a light to the nations (Exodus 19:5-6). We shouted out to President Obama just as we said we would: "Take your hands off the Land of the G-d and the people of Israel and off Jerusalem!" We warned him of the dreadful consequences, as stated by the Prophet Joel (Joel 4:2).

We danced as we reached the Jaffa Gate in the Old City of Jerusalem. There, we blew the silver trumpets and swore our faithfulness to Jerusalem. From there, we ascended to the Holy Temple Mount. As we stood there we felt the presence of the G-d of Israel among us calling us to go to His people Israel and to all the world and to share with them His call to rebuild immediately His Holy Temple so that He may again dwell among His people Israel, in the midst of all mankind.

This exciting and historical event will never be forgotten in all of the history of Israel and all the world. It opened a new era for all of us. It was actually the first step towards the rebuilding of the Temple in our lifetime.

Everyone is called at this historical godly moment to actively join, come and stand together, and help the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement to complete her major and historic godly campaign to build the Temple of G-d and to bring to pass all of G-d's end time prophetic expectations and plans for Israel and the entire world.

In the G-d of Israel we trust!

http://www.templemountfaithful.org/

[savedbygrace]

Yes, thanks for the update FT (and Milo 3 )

[IamtheWalrus]

Walrus, we could not be farther apart in our understanding of scripture.

IMO, there's a possiblity of Israel losing sovereignty again, if not partially more so than it is now.

[Pretzelogical]

To whomever it was laughingly asking if the water out of the temple was Christians with a bladder problem:

Jeremiah 17:13
O LORD, the hope of Israel,
All who forsake You will be put to shame
Those who turn away on earth will be written down,
Because they have forsaken the fountain of living water, even the LORD.

John 4:10-11, 14, 21-26
Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water."
She said to Him, "Sir, You have nothing to draw with and the well is deep; where then do You get that living water?
...but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."
Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
"But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us."
Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am He."

John 7:38
"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'"

Philippians 2:17
But even if I am being poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I rejoice and share my joy with you all.

There are the witnesses in the scriptures to verify that the the holy temple, the believers, will flow with living water.
The woman at the well was told by Jesus to worship God in spirit and in truth. Living water (the Holy Spirit) flows from Christians.


Romans 12:1
Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

Believers are to "offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable". (I Peter 2:5)

Hebrews 13:14-15
Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name.
And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

Hosea 6:6
For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice,And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.


Daniel 8:13
Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to that particular one who was speaking, " How long will the vision about the regular sacrifice apply, while the transgression causes horror, so as to allow both the holy place and the host to be trampled?"

So, allow me to ask...who is the host of the holy place that is trampled?
God is not trampled, so He is not the host of the holy place where God dwells.
Believers are the host of the holy place.

[IamtheWalrus]

Pretz,

People tend to poke fun when their views are rebuked by scripture.

[1whowaits]

Prezte, in Dan 9 it is the host of the saints that are trampled on, but note that the saints are described as something separate from the sanctuary, the sanctuary is brought low and surrendered, the sanctuary being another term for the temple. In Dan 8 the saints are not pictured as the temple, they are separate from the temple, which is exactly opposite to what Walrus is trying to put forth.

Also in Dan 8 the daily sacrifice is given over to the 'horn', the AC, which is consistent with other scripture that describes the sacrifice and offering being stopped by the AC in association with the temple being brought low or desecrated.

In Rev 11 a literal temple is described, with worshippers present, clearly not a symbolic representation of the church. And Isa 2 describes Jesus ruling from the temple- 'the house of the God of Jacob', which has not happened yet, clearly there will be a literal future rebuilding of the temple.

The point about the bladder problems is to demonstrate with humor how humorous the theory is that the detailed description of the temple in Ezek is really a symbollic representation of the church. The taking of such a detailed description as a symbolic representation defies logic, and the rest of scripture which does describe a literal rebuilt temple repeatedly.

[sands]

2 Peter 1

"19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:"

[IamtheWalrus]

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

[1whowaits]

I have one too..' Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? 1 Cor 3:16.

Christians are God's temple symbolically and literally, God's Spirit literally lives in us. But note there are no dimensions on this temple of the Holy Spirit, there are no priests in this temple, no worshippers in this temple, no outer court to this temple, no court given to the gentiles in this temple, no cubits in this temple (at least not 500 cubits or 800 ft.), no water flowing out of this temple (hopefully), nothing like the literal temple of Ezek and Rev that does have these things.

[Pretzelogical]

1whowaits -
I printed the vision of Daniel 8:1-14 on one sheet of paper. Then I printed the interpretation of the vision, Daniel 8:15-27 on a second sheet of paper. Then I took colored pencils to mark each character and its pronouns and descriptions in its own color on both sheets of paper for comparison. I also did this with all the words that appeared in both the vision and the interpretation of it. As you will notice, the sacrifice and sanctuary are not in the interpretation, but only in the vision. The sacrifice and sanctuary are figurative in the vision, and are therefore not in the interpretation, just as the ram, goat and horns are not in the interpretation.
The vision of removing sacrifices and throwing down His sanctuary, is interpreted:
"He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people."

(It seems, Walrus, Mrs. B. and I are not willing to ignore the interpretation given to Daniel.)

Daniel chapter 8:10 matches with Revelation when Satan casts 1/3 of the stars (saints) to the ground. The stars do not go willingly as followers of Satan, but are victims, just like in Daniel 8. The king that arises "will be mighty, but not by his own power, and he will destroy to an extraordinary degree...the mighty men and the holy people."

I see the temple rebuilding project in the same light as building a tower of Babel.

[1whowaits]

Prezte, that is quite a unique way of interpreting scripture, if it is in the interpretation it is literal, if it is in the vision but not the interpretation it is figurative, that is unique to say the least. So in your view whatever the interpretation states is literally true, while the vision may not be literally true but figurative?

The interpretation states that the 'vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future.' The 'vision' of the evenings and the mornings, the 2,300 days, includes the statements about the surrender of the sanctuary and its being brought low and the trampling of the saints. It would appear that the interpretation itself states that the 'vision' concerning the bringing low of the temple is true, it is literal, as the 'interpretation' it self is literal.

But i do not believe this is an accurate method of determining what is literal vs what is figurative. Dan 7 does include descriptions in the interpretation (the saints being conquered, etc) that are not included in the vision, an entire section of the interpretation is not included in the intial vision.

This would suggest that not everything that is in the vision is included in the interpretation and vice versa, things are left out in both. This does not in any way suggest one part is literal or one part is figurative, just that not everything is included in the vision or the interpretation, there are some things that are left out or not completely explained.

[Pretzelogical]

Please post scriptures.

Daniel 8:14 He said to me, "For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the holy place will be properly restored."
This statement is not part of the vision. The angel with Daniel reassured him with these words.

Compare what Daniel saw, and accept what the angel said it meant. It all fits with the rest of scripture that believers are the holy place, His sanctuary, the temple, and believers will be destroyed by the small horn king that magnifies himself to be equal with the Commander of the host, opposing the Prince of princes.

[Abiding in His Word]

(It seems, Walrus, Mrs. B. and I are not willing to ignore the interpretation given to Daniel.)

Perhaps one of you would speak to 1whowait's post here:

I have one too..' Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? 1 Cor 3:16.

Christians are God's temple symbolically and literally, God's Spirit literally lives in us. But note there are no dimensions on this temple of the Holy Spirit, there are no priests in this temple, no worshippers in this temple, no outer court to this temple, no court given to the gentiles in this temple, no cubits in this temple (at least not 500 cubits or 800 ft.), no water flowing out of this temple (hopefully), nothing like the literal temple of Ezek and Rev that does have these things.

I think he made a good point regarding the physical descriptions of the temple.

[Pretzelogical]

Believers are the temple, a kingdom of priests with one Mediator, Christ Jesus. Believers are the body of Christ, the holy place where His Spirit dwells. Jesus, the King, will measure the church. It is pictured in Revelation when Jesus walks among the lampstands (the churches) and reports on the work of the seven churches. The Jews are measured separately from the gentile believers. The gentiles are left out completely. Every knee will bow; believers within the temple will bow and be measured for service in the kingdom, and non-believers outside the temple will not be measured.

there are no dimensions on this temple of the Holy Spirit,

Jesus stands amidst the lampstands (the churches) and reports how they measure up. The measuring is done with a king's sceptor to appraise the progress of the church, and to measure how it comes up short in the apsotasy that is to come first. The perfection of the temple, Christ, is our standard.
Revelation 21:17
And he measured its wall, seventy-two yards, according to human measurements, which are also angelic measurements.
Man and angels will be measured by the same standard in God's kingdom to come. All is in units of 12, denoting God's government. The measuring is equal in all three dimesions denoting justice reigns. The dimensions form a crystal cube...like a grain of salt...we are the salt of the earth, the holy temple. Our saltiness will be measured. Jesus said if salt loses its saltiness (the falling away apostasy) then it is good for nothing but to be trampled by men.

there are no priests in this temple,

(I will post this again.)
First Peter 2
5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

9But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

[i]Romans 15
15But I have written very boldly to you on some points so as to remind you again, because of the grace that was given me from God,

16to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, so that my offering of the Gentiles may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

Revelation 1:6
and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father-- to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10
"You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

no worshippers in this temple

(I have already posted numerous verses on this too.)
Romans 12:1
Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

Hebrews 9
8The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy place has not yet been disclosed while the outer tabernacle is still standing,

9which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience,

10since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.

11But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation

no outer court to this temple, no court given to the gentiles in this temple

Gentiles refers to non-believers who are not in the Temple, Christ Jesus, and so are not the temple of the Holy Spirit. Only the believers are measured for work as priests in the temple. The temple is symbolic of measuring belie ving Jews in their court, gentiles who believe in a separate court, and not measuring the unbelievers who are outside the temple.

Isaiah 65:7
Both their own iniquities and the iniquities of their fathers together," says the LORD
"Because they have burned incense on the mountains
And scorned Me on the hills,
Therefore I will measure their former work into their bosom."

no cubits in this temple (at least not 500 cubits or 800 ft.)

Matthew 7:2
"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

Matthew 23:32
"Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers.

Mark 4:24
And He was saying to them, "Take care what you listen to. By your standard of measure it will be measured to you; and more will be given you besides.

Luke 6:38
"Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure--pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return."

Ephesians 4
11And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,

12for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;

13until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

The saints are to measure up to Christ's standard.

no water flowing out of this temple (hopefully), nothing like the literal temple of Ezek and Rev that does have these things.

Apparently you missed my previous post on this one too. Jesus the Temple flows with Living Water. The believers, the body of Christ, the temple of the Holy Spirit do too.

Jeremiah 17:13
O LORD, the hope of Israel,
All who forsake You will be put to shame
Those who turn away on earth will be written down,
Because they have forsaken the [i]fountain of living water, even the LORD.[/i]

John 4
...but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."
Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father...
"But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

John 7
38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'"

I have repeatedly provided a cohesive number of scriptures to support a spiritual temple. You have yet to refute a one of them. Yes, there are specific measurements given for good reason. They denote perfection, justice, government, division of believers, and non-believers, etc. There is much to be learned from these verses. They do not denote a literal rebuilt temple as we are the living stones built up into a royal priesthood measured for service according to the standard of the King. It is all very beautiful and convicting of spirit.

[Abiding in His Word]

I have repeatedly provided a cohesive number of scriptures to support a spiritual temple. You have yet to refute a one of them.

I will share why I'm not seeing "cohesive" scriptures that support a scriptural conclusion.

Yes, there are specific measurements given for good reason. They denote perfection, justice, government, division of believers, and non-believers, etc.

You posted a number of verses that contain the word "measurement" to arrive at your conclusion that the precise measurements recorded for the temple refer to a different or spiritual type of measurement.

For example,

You posted this scripture:

Matthew 7:2
"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

And somehow associated the word measure with the cubits measurement of the temple without noting that the context of this measure has nothing to do with a literal, tangible measuring tool. Rather the measure spoken of in Matthew 7:2 parallels the scripture that whatsoever a person sows, so will he reap.

By listing a number of scriptures that contain the word, you have concluded that the measurement of the temple is spiritually appraised rather than literally.

If I use a number of scriptures that contain the word "evil" and list them apart from their context, I can probably prove that believers are all evil, we should say nothing but yes or no, and we should not associate with one another. See how (apart from context) we can arrive at that erroneous conclusion:

Mat 5:37 "But let your statement be, 'Yes, yes' or 'No, no'; anything beyond these is of evil.

Mat 7:11 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

Mat 12:34 "You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.

Conclusion: (since we are all evil, we must abhor one another and stay away from one another.)

Rom 12:9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good.

1Th 5:22 abstain from every form of evil.

I think that's what I'm seeing in your list of scriptures, Pretzelogical. It appears that you are failing to differentiate between the believer and the unbeliever, the Jews, and literal and the symbolic.

[IamtheWalrus]

Everything has a literal application to it, but that never denotes the spiritual or symbolic attributes of any scripture. What people have failed to interpret here is that this temple, although literal in its explanation, was replaced, for lack of a better word, from the OT to NT with Christ and His church. I really don't get it how everyone simply denies the scripture in which Jesus repeatedly told us, as well as Peter, James and Paul of where the temple is situated right now. Does that mean anything here to anybody? Or is it something else aligned with a temple built by the Jews?
Why would God allow such a thing in the first place.

Folks,

If you had a child, that needed to die for all your children, and did so, so they can be saved, would you allow another child to try to replace that child's salvation with something other than the blood of your dead child?

This is common Christian sense people.

[Pretzelogical]

Folks,

If you had a child, that needed to die for all your children, and did so, so they can be saved, would you allow another child to try to replace that child's salvation with something other than the blood of your dead child?

This is common Christian sense people.

LORD, please open our hearts and minds and do not allow us to be deceived.

[Abiding in His Word]

Everything has a literal application to it, but that never denotes the spiritual or symbolic attributes of any scripture. What people have failed to interpret here is that this temple, although literal in its explanation, was replaced, for lack of a better word, from the OT to NT with Christ and His church.

What spiritual, symbolic atttributes could we use to define the many architectural aspects of the temple in Ezekiel's description. Are door posts, windows, porches, pillars, etc. to be interpreted symbolically of a believer's body?

At these two links you will see an artists blueprint of Ezekiel's temple drawn from the precise measurements and full descriptions from the text. Are we to believe these intricate, detailed descriptions (over 200) which morph into this blueprint were given to describe a believer's body?

http://www.templemount.org/ezektmp.html

http://www.templemount.org/ezekdiag.html

[Pretzelogical]

From the link you just posted:

Features Unique to Ezekiel's Temple
No wall of partition to exclude Gentiles (compare Ephesians 2:14) The Gentiles were previously welcome in the Outer Courts, but excluded from the inner courts on pain of death.
No Court of Women (compare Galatians 3:28 (Outer Court and Inner Court only)
No Laver (see Ezekiel 36:24-27, John 15:3)
No Table of Shewbread (see Micah 5:4, John 6:35)
No Lampstand or Menorah (see Isaiah 49:6, John 8:12)
No Golden Altar of Incense (Zechariah 8:20-23, John 14:6)
No Veil (Isaiah 25:6-8, Matthew 27:51)
No Ark of the Covenant (Jeremiah 3:16, John 10:30-33)

Major Changes to the Altar: The sacrificial Altar will be approached by a ramp from the East. Previous altars were all approached from the South. Now there will be stairs to the altar, not a ramp as previously. The top of the altar is now described by the Hebrew word "ariel" [Isaiah 29:1] meaning "hearth of God" or "lion of God." [Rev. 5:5]. (Ref. 3)
If the previous temples, as well as the Tabernacle of Moses, are pictures for us of man as the dwelling place of God, then Ezekiel's temple may be intended to teach us about the marvelously new resurrection bodies waiting for every believer when he leaves this present life (2 Corinthians 5:1-5).

[Abiding in His Word]

Pretzelogical, of course it may teach believers the beauty of our resurrected life when we leave this life.

Notice the first part of that sentence...

If the previous temples, as well as the Tabernacle of Moses, are pictures for us of man as the dwelling place of God.....

It doesn't mean that to unbelieving Jews who are patterning the next temple according to the blueprints shown on that site. That they are planning a literal temple cannot be denied. If they are planning one, we will see one. I'm sure you've read about the completed preparations regarding the Priesthood decendents, priestly garments, necessary utensils, etc. They do not see the previous temples nor the future temple as "pictures" of a spiritual temple in the form of a believer's body.

[1whowaits]

Also some may be confusing the analogies used to describe christians. We are all part of the body of Christ, we are described as parts fitting together to form the body, we are view collectively as the body. But most often, in the example of the temple, we are individual temples, each of us separately is a temple- 'Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?' 1 Cor 6:19

So as each christian individually is a temple in and of ourseleves- 'Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?' 1 Cor 3:16, the theory of christians being the temple of Ezek and Rev does not follow logically. Each individual christian 'temple' cannot have worshippers inside of them as the temple does in Rev. Each individual christan does not have specific measurements and dimensions, an outer court, an inner court, or water flowing from them, as is the case in Ezek.

The description of individual christians as being in and of themselves temples, combined with the specific and detailed measurements of the temple in Ezek would logically rule out the temple in Rev and Ezek as being a reference to individual christians.

Also the analogy that applies is not that the temple replaces Christ, it is the place where Christ rules and is the place of worship of Christ during the millenium, as Isa 2 and Zech 14 indicate.

[1whowaits]

Abiding, i would agree, the Jewish people are preapring to rebuild the temple and they believe God has never rescinded His command for them to build a sanctuary for Him- 'Then have them make a sanctuary for me, and I will dwell among them'. Ex 25. The fact that the scripture does describe a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem at the midpoint of the 70th week proves that this will be accomplished.

[kazbo]

What people have failed to interpret here is that this temple, although literal in its explanation, was replaced, for lack of a better word, from the OT to NT with Christ and His church.

I suppose this will sound simplistic, but why would God spend 8 chapters describing a temple in exquisite detail that he knew would be replaced by the church? Why not just sum it all up in "a glorious temple"? What possible point would there be to provide all the detail if he knew the temple would never be built?

Is there anything else in the OT you see as being completely replaced/superseded by the church?

[Mrs. B]

The Kingdom of God is a Spiritual Kingdom...

It comes not with observation...

The Kingdom of God is within you....

Jesus is the Builder of the Temple of God...

Not by Might nor by power but by My Spirit saith the Lord...

Rev. 11:1....And there was given me a reed like unto a rod:
and the angel stood, saying, Rise and Measure the Temple of God,
and the altar, and them that worship therin....



Just yesterday I was watching My Husband build a Deck with a roof around our Home...

I noticed He had to Measure every piece of wood he nailed to the deck and roof...

He used a corner stone.....of our house to measure and line up the roof and the deck...

Every piece of lumber was measured and trimmed and measured to fit in it's proper place...

He had a square to square every piece into its place...

He had a string line......a Plume line to hammer every piece into it's proper place..

and to see that it was straight...and fit in its proper place...

Every piece had to fit...every piece was made to fit....

Peter says...we are Lively Stones...and make up the Temple or House of God...

Jesus is the Builder....He measures every rock, cuts and shapes every piece to fit to Make the House or Temple of God...



Know ye not , know ye not , ye are the Temple

Ye are the Temple of the Holy Ghost....

Filled with Praise Filled with Power Filled with Glory
Ye are the Temple of the Holy Ghost


Every born again believer makes up the body of Christ

We are the Temple on this Earth Today
Christ in you the Hope of Glory...


Where does satan wont to live today.....
In the body of Christ........the temple on this earth...
Jesus said...If it were Possibl even the very elect would be deceived....
John said there were many antichrist....
If they were with us they would have not left us....



antichrist in the Church....
teaching another Gospel.....

denying even the Christ who saved them...following a false christ....

bb

[Mrs. B]

The Kingdom of God is a Spiritual Kingdom...

It comes not with observation...

The Kingdom of God is within you....

Jesus is the Builder of the Temple of God...

Not by Might nor by power but by My Spirit saith the Lord...

Rev. 11:1....And there was given me a reed like unto a rod:
and the angel stood, saying, Rise and Measure the Temple of God,
and the altar, and them that worship therin....



Just yesterday I was watching My Husband build a Deck with a roof around our Home...

I noticed He had to Measure every piece of wood he nailed to the deck and roof...

He used a corner stone.....of our house to measure and line up the roof and the deck...

Every piece of lumber was measured and trimmed and measured to fit in it's proper place...

He had a square to square every piece into its place...

He had a string line......a Plume line to hammer every piece into it's proper place..

and to see that it was straight...and fit in its proper place...

Every piece had to fit...every piece was made to fit....

Peter says...we are Lively Stones...and make up the Temple or House of God...

Jesus is the Builder....He measures every rock, cuts and shapes every piece to fit to Make the House or Temple of God...



Know ye not , know ye not , ye are the Temple

Ye are the Temple of the Holy Ghost....

Filled with Praise Filled with Power Filled with Glory
Ye are the Temple of the Holy Ghost


Every born again believer makes up the body of Christ

We are the Temple on this Earth Today
Christ in you the Hope of Glory...


Where does satan wont to live today.....
In the body of Christ........the temple on this earth...
Jesus said...If it were Possibl even the very elect would be deceived....
John said there were many antichrist....
If they were with us they would have not left us....



antichrist in the Church....
teaching another Gospel.....

denying even the Christ who saved them...following a false christ....

bb

[Abiding in His Word]

I suppose this will sound simplistic, but why would God spend 8 chapters describing a temple in exquisite detail that he knew would be replaced by the church? Why not just sum it all up in "a glorious temple"? What possible point would there be to provide all the detail if he knew the temple would never be built?

Kazbo, why did you wait until 141 posts to bring in this completely logical, common sense question? I think your "simplistic" question has hit the nail on the head imho.

Good job!

[Mrs. B]

13 Ton Temple Corner Stone to be presented to the People.....


The Temple and City that Ezekiel saw was the New City Jerusalem....the same in Revelation...

Ezekiel 43:10...Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel....
that they may be ashamed of their iniquities:
and let them Measure the Pattern. (or, sum, of number)...

The New City Jerusalem coming down from God.....

it is not the Jerusalem of today....

Notice....Ezekiel 48:30...And these are the goings out of the City on the North side, four thousand and five hundred measures...

31....And the Gates of the City shall be after the names of the Tribes of Israel:
three Gates Norward;
one Gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi...

32...And at the East side four thousand four thousand and five hundred:
and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan...

And so goes on 33,34, 35,: It was round about eithteen thousand measusres:
and the Name of the City from that day shall be..THE LORD IS THERE...


Rev. 21:1....And I saw a New Heaven and a New Earth:
for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea...

2...And I John saw...THE HOLY CITY, NEW JERUSALEM...coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a Bride adorened for her husband...

3...And I heard a Great Voice out of Heaven saying...Behold, the Tabernacle of God is with men...and He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God...

10...And he carried me away in the Spirit to a Great and High Mountain, and shewed me That Great City, the Holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.

12...And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are...The Names of the Twelve Tribes of the Children of Israel:

14....And the Wall of the City had Twelve foundations, and in them the Names of the Twelve Aposstles of the Lamb...

15...And he that Talked with Me...Had a Golden Reed to Measure the City, and the Gates thereof and the Wall thereof....


22...And I saw NO Temple there in:
for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the Temple of it....

24...And the Nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it:
and the Kings of the Earth Do Bring their Glory and Honour into it...

Rev. 22:1...And He shewed Me a Pure River of Water of Life...clear as Crystal, Proceeding out of the Throne of God, and of the Lamb.....

2...In the Midst of the Street of it, and on either side of the river, was there..THE TREE OF LIFE, WHICH BARE TWELVE MANNER OF FRUITS, AND yielded her fruit every month:
and the leaves of the Tree were For the Healing of the Nations....


John sees more then Eziekebut it is the same City and Templle....

bbl

[IamtheWalrus]

What spiritual, symbolic atttributes could we use to define the many architectural aspects of the temple in Ezekiel's description. Are door posts, windows, porches, pillars, etc. to be interpreted symbolically of a believer's body?

Yes! Now you are getting somewhere!

What in the OT, were types, that is real things tangble to the touch, or described as such, that symbolised Christ?
There were plenty...the tabernacle inclusive in Exodus that 1WW posted.

Kazbo,

What is so complex about it? Why wouldn't God be so simple to us, yet the Jews completely missed it? Why are peple missing this here? Everything and anything that regarded the temple, sancturary, etc etc in the OT was fulfilled in Christ and His church. What is so difficult about this?

Who cares if the Jews are attempting to rebuild? They will never have it. God would never allow, His firstborn of all peoples, to attempt to erect something that was already given to them. This kind of thinking is dangerous to the faith. This kind of thinking leads to a massive misinterpretation of the scripture, which reverberates to the core.

[IamtheWalrus]

I suppose this will sound simplistic, but why would God spend 8 chapters describing a temple in exquisite detail that he knew would be replaced by the church? Why not just sum it all up in "a glorious temple"? What possible point would there be to provide all the detail if he knew the temple would never be built?

Kazbo, why did you wait until 141 posts to bring in this completely logical, common sense question? I think your "simplistic" question has hit the nail on the head imho.

Good job!

To me, this is a sure miss.

[kazbo]

Kazbo,

What is so complex about it? Why wouldn't God be so simple to us, yet the Jews completely missed it? Why are peple missing this here? Everything and anything that regarded the temple, sancturary, etc etc in the OT was fulfilled in Christ and His church. What is so difficult about this?

Nobody’s missing anything, Walrus. Nothing’s difficult about it. I just don’t agree with you. I won’t debate it because 1) it would take hours and hours and you are so convinced of the correctness of your position that it would be fruitless work anyway; 2) I don’t like the tone you take at times and it’s a struggle to not say things that will be a bad witness – so I’m trying to be a good girl and not expose myself to temptation ; 3) debating Scripture is not my strong suit, especially in this setting. I know what I know, but it’s difficult for me to get it out of my heart and head and onto the screen.

I hope to be as gracious, thoughtful, patient, and convincing as 1WW and Abiding are when I grow up, but I’m not there yet.

BTW, you didn’t answer my questions.

[IamtheWalrus]

Kazbo,

It is ok that you don't agree with me, but do you agree with scripture?..this is infallible. Christ repeatedly told us that we were the Temple...He is God, and He calls the shots, and if Christ is God, then God died for us, replacing the structural temple with Himself and His church. This is hard to argue with.

My thoughts may be wrong, as I always admit that, however, I unlike many here, am willing to be molded as clay should be. Once you get hardened like a rock, unwilling to budge from your position based on the premise of "I am right" satements, it is hard for anything to penetrate it. I never say I am right, I say "this is what the scripture says", an entirely different stance.

And another thing, how do you have a tone on a message board? The Holy Spirit, God, convicted me of many interpretations out there, many on this board, through scriptural proof, that it is mistaken. The answer is not in man, but in the Word, and the Word says we are the temple, not a man made Jewish structure that will never get built, IMO, based on what Christ told me in His Word.

Suit yourself on your interpretations, but I beg you, to look deeper, read more, and study with people that are willing to gaze upon the face of God, than people who already think they know what He looks like. I apologize if I have come acrosswrong to you in the past, but mind you, I never snap at people, although it is wrong to do so, first. I am always a person that takes badgering up to a poiunt, then it is time for a little reverse medication, something I recall that you said to me first. Like I said though, I am sorry.

And yes, I do read from the same Bible you do.

PS, I thought I answered your question, but I will again.

why would God spend 8 chapters describing a temple in exquisite detail that he knew would be replaced by the church? Why not just sum it all up in "a glorious temple"? What possible point would there be to provide all the detail if he knew the temple would never be built?

Type - fulfillment.

A type is a person, place or event/thing that foresahadows something/someone in scripture that is fulfilled.

Temple/Tabernacle - Church/Christ

The Old Testament, and the prophets that wrote, including all the saints, coulod not comprehend God coming to earth and dying for us. They wrote about what they knew, about the things they understood. Christ fulfilled that.

[Abiding in His Word]

Kazbo,

It is ok that you don't agree with me, but do you agree with scripture?..this is infallible. Christ repeatedly told us that we were the Temple...He is God, and He calls the shots, and if Christ is God, then God died for us, replacing the structural temple with Himself and His church. This is hard to argue with.

Hello IamtheWalrus,

This question was a bit unfair imho. I have no doubt whatsoever that Kazbo as well as every other member of this board agrees with scripture. It's precisely His Word that has united us here to discuss the many truths contained therein. It's our differences in interpretation that we are discussing in this thread, not the infallibility of scripture.

It does seem apparent, we'll likely not agree on the literal or symbolic interpretation of Exekiel's temple. I would like to recommend an excellent examination of the literal vs. the symbolic views by Randal Price in this pdf file. It may be of interest to some.

Ezekiel's Prophecy of the Temple by Randal Price

[IamtheWalrus]

Abiding, thanks for the link. I am quite familiar with Randal Price's work, however, what he and many other fail to understand is that Christ and His church did fulfill all of it and everything regarding the tabernacle/temple, and the text of Exzekiel concerning the temple is such language used by our God, who is Jesus, to help the Jews at the time understand the immense, detailed and monumental construction of something that never can be duplicated by anyone.

A temple made without hands.

God is Jesus and Jesus is God.

If there were to be a third temple, why would He, contradict Himself from His inspiration into Ezekiel's text to His teachings to the Jews at His first advent, about the location of the Temple within?

To inform them, Jews, that He is fulfilling it.

People need to understand the prophecies about Israel coming to God has already taken place with the Messaniac Jews.
They are being folded, grafted back in, right now as we speak, each time a Jew comes to Jesus.

Yes this temple in Ezkiel is literal, literally impossible to acheive without the Blood of Christ.

[watching]

kazbo wrote:

a monotheistic, non-trinitarian god who does not exist

I thought the Jews worshipped the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? Isn’t that the same God we know?

Walrus wrote: so does Islam. The difference is Jesus.

I thought Islam worships the god of Abraham, Ishmael, and Mohammad

[kazbo]

It is ok that you don't agree with me, but do you agree with scripture?..this is infallible.

Of course I agree with Scripture, Walrus. That's not at issue. Our interpretations of that Scripture differ, that's all.

Christ repeatedly told us that we were the Temple...

Yes. We are the temple of God on earth. I also believe that this spiritual temple will be removed at the rapture and that a literal temple will be built during the Millenium.

Once you get hardened like a rock, unwilling to budge from your position based on the premise of "I am right" satements, it is hard for anything to penetrate it.

Totally agree with that.

I never say I am right, I say "this is what the scripture says", an entirely different stance.

"this is what the Scripture says" is an absolute statement that leaves little room for different interpretations of that Scripture. Perhaps saying "this is what I see the Scripture saying" would better convey your thought that you could be wrong.

people that are willing to gaze upon the face of God, than people who already think they know what He looks like.

Wow, if you knew me in real life, and could see how I've gone against mainstream Christianity in so many ways precisely because my single aim is to gaze upon the face of God and to truly know him, rather than to live a life among those who say they know him and don't, you never would have said this.

They wrote about what they knew, about the things they understood.

They wrote as they were inspired by God, whether they understood it or not, and I am sure there was much they did not understand.

And another thing, how do you have a tone on a message board?

I posted this:

Are we reading the same Bible?

To which you replied:

Yes we are. Are you understanding it? It appears not so from that question.

To which I replied:

Ouch.

Permit me to sling a marshmallow at you for that one.

To which you replied:

Guess I should've said ouch first, so sorry, but you slung first. I was just defending myself.
Why ask a question such as what you asked...did you think you would have not gotten a response from me?

To which I replied:

If you thought that my asking that question was an attempt to attack you, I am most sorry. The idea never crossed my mind. I was just honestly flabbergasted, and expressed it - innocently, I thought. My bad.

To which you said nothing.


Okay.

So saying something along the lines of “Are we reading the same Bible?” is something you see as slinging.

Then I don't understand why you don't consider these comments to be slinging:

the sooner all of you understand this, the easier it will be to understand.

It seems you spend more time trying to disprove it with lack of evidence to support the theory, than you or anyone else for that matter do so in attempting to understand it.

your view upon this scripture will continue to be disillusioned

Is that enough for you? Open your heart and mind.

I think it is you who doesn't understand the reason why those laws were set in the first place.

I provided you the words of Jesus Christ regarding the need for a temple...That doesn't appear to be enough for you

That is an assumption and an interpretation of misguided hermeneutics.

This is common Christian sense people.

Based on our marshmallow-slinging incident, it seems to me if those comments had been directed to you, you would have been upset by them.

Walrus, I don’t want to be at odds with you and I apologize if I’ve done anything to make you feel at odds with me. Life’s just too short, you know? I will say I admire your tenacity and the passion you exhibit in defending your views.

BTW, did you know that every time I see your user name I end up with “goo goo ga joob” going through my head? Every single time.

[Pretzelogical]

Thank you to all who are sticking with this search through the scriptures! May the word continue to bless our walks.

Imagery is consistent throughout the scriptures. Where God uses imagery, we need to be consistent to do the same. Gates represent the leadership because in the actual city gates, the leaders met there to conduct all business. Obviously, the leaders of the church whose names are written on the gates are the 12 tribes and 12 apostles. 12 represents government in the scriptures. Therefore, gates with 12 and also the names of leaders on them, make it obvious the gates are imagery. You can see it clearly in Lamentations 2. Jeremiah's poetic writing concerns the sin of the people and God's judgment on the people because of their sin. The people are represented by the city Jerusalem with its walls and gates, sanctuary, tabernacle, footstool, etc. Also note in this passage, God is measuring the people with a plumbline, and they come up short, and will be judged. This is what Revelation and Ezekiel are also expressing. Once again, we see the term "cast down" used to describe destruction of the people.

Excerpts from Lamentations 2

How the Lord has covered the daughter of Zion
With a cloud in His anger!
He has cast from heaven to earth
The glory of Israel,
And has not remembered His footstool
In the day of His anger.
And He has violently treated His tabernacle like a garden booth;
He has destroyed His appointed meeting place
The LORD has caused to be forgotten
The appointed feast and sabbath in Zion,
And He has despised king and priest
In the indignation of His anger.
The Lord has rejected His altar,
He has abandoned His sanctuary;
He has delivered into the hand of the enemy
The walls of her palaces
The LORD determined to destroy
The wall of the daughter of Zion.
He has stretched out a line,
He has not restrained His hand from destroying,
And He has caused rampart and wall to lament;
They have languished together.
Her gates have sunk into the ground,
He has destroyed and broken her bars
My spirit is greatly troubled;
My heart is poured out on the earth
Because of the destruction of the daughter of my people,
He has thrown down without sparing,
And He has caused the enemy to rejoice over you;
"O wall of the daughter of Zion,
Let your tears run down like a river day and night;
Give yourself no relief,
Let your eyes have no rest.
"Arise, cry aloud in the night
At the beginning of the night watches;
Pour out your heart like water
Before the presence of the Lord;
Lift up your hands to Him
For the life of your little ones

1whowaits:
I believe Daniel 9 when speaking of the destruction of the city and sanctuary is speaking of the destruction of the Jews and believers, just as the above scriptures describe the Jews as the city Jerusalem. Remember, in our day it is the apostasy that brings on the judgment. It is not because believers are not keeping animal sacrifices. What is required is the giving of ourselves as living sacrifices in the holy temple in service to others.