13 Ton Temple Corner Stone to Be Presented to the People

Website · by **Final Trumpet** on Fri May 15, 2009 4:34 pm

Thirteen Ton Temple Corner Stone to Be Presented to the People of Israel

The holy cornerstone for the Third Temple will be transported by the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement as they march on Jerusalem Day, 27 Iyar 5769 (May 21, 2009). It will be driven from Ammunition Hill to the Jaffa Gate, along the western walls of the Old City to the downtown streets of Jerusalem. There it will be presented to the people of Israel and to the entire world for the first time since the destruction of the Holy Temple in 70 CE.

Since 1967, Jerusalem Day has become one of the most important holidays in Israel. This public holiday commemorates the liberation of the Temple Mount, the biblical city of Jerusalem, the City of David and the biblically significant areas of Judea, Samaria, Gaza, the Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula. All of this happened in the Six Day War of 1967. It was then that G‑d returned the Temple Mount in Jerusalem to His People Israel so that they would immediately rebuild His Holy Temple in order to renew biblical worship there.

The Jerusalem Day march of the Temple Mount Faithful will begin at Ammunition Hill, located in northern Jerusalem. This was the site of some of the most heroic action during the Six Day War. Intense fighting took place from bunker to bunker. Israeli soldiers sacrificed their lives in battle for the G‑d of Israel, for the Holy City of Jerusalem and for the Temple Mount. Ammunition Hill became the symbol of both Israeli heroism and the fighting together of G‑d and His people Israel in fulfillment of His prophetic Word.

The marchers will be led by a truck carrying the holy cornerstone for the Third Temple. The cornerstone, weighing 13 tons, will be carried on the back of the truck, underneath a chuppah, and decorated with Israeli flags, the Star of David and Temple flags. Silver trumpets reconstructed for future worship in the Third Temple will be blown throughout the march.

On the way to the Temple Mount, the marchers will stop in front of the United States Consulate. Here they will present whatever the G‑d of Israel puts onto their hearts as a stance against the growing pressure from US President Barack Obama. They will warn him about his desire to divide the Land of Israel in order to establish a foreign, terror-filled Arab state inside the sovereign Land of Israel. (This land was given by G‑d to the Jewish people alone in an eternal covenant.) The marchers will also warn him concerning his pressure to stop Jewish settlement of the Land and to remove the settlements in Judea and Samaria. They will call out to President Obama: "Take your hands off the Land of the G‑d and the people of Israel!" They will warn him of the divine judgment from G‑d as prophesied by the Prophet Joel: "For behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring back the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down in the valley of Jehosophat, and will enter into judgment with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and have divided up my land" (Joel 4:2).

When the marchers arrive at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem, they will blow the silver trumpets and swear their faithfulness to Jerusalem while dancing with the flags. They will then continue through the Old City and ascend to the Holy Temple Mount. There they will swear their faithfulness and devotion to the G‑dly anointing on the Faithful Movement to build the third Temple of G‑d in our lifetime.

When the marchers arrive at the Jaffa Gate in the Old City, the holy cornerstone will continue to the downtown streets of Jerusalem, where it will be presented to the people of Israel and to the entire world. This great occasion will be one of the most exciting events that Israel has experienced during this special end time age.

Everyone is invited to participate in this exciting, historic and G‑dly event. Everyone is called to actively join, come and stand together, and help the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement complete her major and historic campaign to build the Temple of G‑d and to bring to pass all of G‑d's end time prophetic plans for Israel and the entire world.

In the G‑d of Israel we trust!

http://www.templemountfaithful.org/Events/jerusalemDay2009.htm

by **Salty Skipper** on Fri May 15, 2009 5:16 pm

Very interesting. Sounds like something straight out of the Bible. :eek:

by **JohnE** on Fri May 15, 2009 7:50 pm

Everybody ready... Win souls, we are at spiritual war's "big'un".

PS. Where is the "family help line"? You know, for when "everybody in your family thinks your crazy"? :shock:

by **GodsStudent** on Fri May 15, 2009 7:53 pm

JohnE.....you have reached the family help line. Leave a message and we will be right here to discuss it with you.....we do this with each other all the time. I can't even tell you how many threads there are out there on this issue....its tough to live the scriptures that tell us we will be at odds with even our own family members.

Temple corner stone????? Their temple is already put together and waiting to be put up? Sacrifices were ruled on in Europe earlier this week or so (I know we have a thread out there on this)......

WOW!!!

JUST WOW!!!

by **1whowaits** on Fri May 15, 2009 8:27 pm

This type of event may actually be in scripture. Zech describes a capstone to the temple being presented in Zech 4- 'This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel; not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit', says the Lord Almighty. What are you, O mighty mountian? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground. Then he will bring out the capstone to shouts of 'God bless it! God bless it!'

The word of the Lord came to me: The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this temple; his hands will also complete it. Then you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to you.'

Zech 4 has some past fulfillment but also appears to have future fulfillment (the passage mentions the 2 olive trees and lampstands which are associated with the 2 witnesses in Rev 11 )

Zerubbabel did lay the foundation for the 2nd temple, and some of that foundation is still present i believe, the foundation stones were not removed. Zech 3 also states that the men mentioned are symbolic of things to come, Zerubbbabel in Zech 4 may be symbolic of something or someone else.

Much of the beginning of Zech dicusses the Lord's desire for His temple to be rebuilt, and His anger with the gentile nations that are dividing Jerusalem and Israel and preventing that rebuilding. So God sends the 4 'craftsmen', likely the 'horsemen' mentioned earlier in the chapter, to overthrow the gentile nations.

This is all about the rebuilding of the Temple and dealing with the gentile nations that are preventing it and who are dividing Jerusalem, which is exactly where we are at now.

And in association with the bringing out of the capstone of the Temple, there is a 'mountain' that is in the way that will be leveled- 'What are you, O mighty mountain?.. you will become level ground.'

There is a mountain that is destroyed that is associated with God's anger over His temple- 'The Lord will take vengeance, vengeance for his temple....I am against you, O destroying mountain, you who destroy the whole earth..I will stretch out my hand against you, roll you off the cliffs, and make you a burned out mountain' Jer 51...said of Babylon.

The 'capstone' of Zech would suggest the temple is in the process of being completed. The bringing out of a cornerstone could be the prelude to a major event, it could signal the beginning of events that could lead into a rebuilding of the temple.

by **AF4Liberty** on Fri May 15, 2009 8:50 pm

I actually think the two witnesses in Revelation will be Zerubbabel and Joshua.

http://www.redmoonrising.com/RMRbook/Ch8.htm

Read Zech 4. They are the two olive trees spoken of.

They helped helped get the 2nd temple completed and I think they'll be here again getting the 3rd temple completed.

This is amazing.... :shock:

by **plalgum** on Sun May 17, 2009 5:17 am

Another two pence worth is that the candlesticks for the temple have been made, and that they are covered in 95 pounds of pure gold.they are getting everything ready.

by **gracebyfaith** on Sun May 17, 2009 7:53 am

Great post! I think we will find things coming together at a pace no one could imagine. Some preconceived ideas on Christ coming will soon be proven wrong, and others will be adjusted to the enlightenment before us.

Our redemption draws near, may we all be ready for the marriage feast of the Lamb.

by **1whowaits** on Sun May 17, 2009 11:58 am

Actually, most of the temple items have been reproduced by the TMF, i believe, but they still need the ashes of a red heffier and a building on the temple mount. There is a gentleman who believes that he has interpreted the location of where the temple artifacts are buried as described on the copper scroll. The list of items includes the ashes of the red heffier and also the Tabernacle. If these items were recovered, there is nothing to prevent the cleansing of the temple mount and the setting up of the tabernacle, except the muslims and the 'quartet' of the gentile nations.

If these items are recovered and Israel is being divided by the gentile nations, they can likely expect to say 'hello' to the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse and Gog-Magog.

by **nonymouse** on Sun May 17, 2009 2:17 pm

Edit by author.

by **1whowaits** on Sun May 17, 2009 4:32 pm

That is interesting Nony, Venus is believed to represent Jesus, the bright and morning star, Mars can represent the angel Michael or war, and the moon, the one who rules the night, can be associated with Satan.

The alignment on the star site pictures the moon and Venus on opposite sides of the fish (Israel), they oppose each other, while Mars, possibly war, is directly over the fish (Israel).

Perhaps the battle between Satan and the Lord will heat up and involve events, possibly war, in Israel around the 21st of May or sometime afterward (this may be a sign of things to come- war involving Israel does appear likely in the near future).

thanks Nony!

by **GodsStudent** on Sun May 17, 2009 7:12 pm

by **plalgum** on Mon May 18, 2009 4:47 am

Thy Kingdom come,Thy will be done in Heaven as it on Earth.

by **Resurrection Torchlight** on Mon May 18, 2009 5:38 am

Thanks for being a faithful watchman FT this is a great article and surely a sign of the times.

I can't remember now where I read it- but a while back a Jewish Rabbi was quoted as saying the Temple will be rebuilt by the end of this (Jewish) year. Maybe it was just wishful thinking on his part- but this is certainly a step in that direction.

RT

by **water** on Mon May 18, 2009 6:51 am

Prophecy fulfilled, right before our very eyes. Time is so short, friends!

by **4givenmuch** on Mon May 18, 2009 5:33 pm

1whowaits wrote:That is interesting Nony, Venus is believed to represent Jesus, the bright and morning star, Mars can represent the angel Michael or war, and the moon, the one who rules the night, can be associated with Satan.

The alignment on the star site pictures the moon and Venus on opposite sides of the fish (Israel), they oppose each other, while Mars, possibly war, is directly over the fish (Israel).

Perhaps the battle between Satan and the Lord will heat up and involve events, possibly war, in Israel around the 21st of May or sometime afterward (this may be a sign of things to come- war involving Israel does appear likely in the near future).

thanks Nony!

Nony's original post is missing, but I thought the mars and the moon would make their appearance together Aug 24th.

by **1whowaits** on Mon May 18, 2009 9:03 pm

Nony, where did the link go? hey, i was only speculatiing, 5/21 may have no significance at all, but it is interesting.

The link Nony posted showed that on 5/21 the moon, Mars and Venus would appear to be in a triangular formation over the constellation Piceses, the fish. It is believed that Piceses is associated with Israel and a celestial sign in this constellation could point to an event in Israel. Venus and the moon on opposite sides could picture the battle between Christ and Satan, involving Israel. Mars could be associated with war or the angel Michael, who may defend Israel.

This type of sign could point to the events on earth in reality being part of the war in heaven.

It may be conincidence but this sign on this date, the anniversary of the ascension, the events concerning the temple cornerstone, the gentile nations basically getting ready to force Israel to accept a 2 state solution, is quite interesting.

by **peanutsrnuts** on Tue May 19, 2009 10:48 am

These are amazing times to be living in !

This is taken from Pastor Mark Biltz's latest newsletter. Notice there is a specific reference to an upcoming scriptural reading portion assigned for June 6th which includes prophecies from the book of Zachariah. He highlights a teaching about these 4 'craftsmen' .

Unfortunately, I can't find the newsletter posted at the website. It's definitely worth reading in its entirety, though. At the moment, I just can't seem to find the link. It was there sort of in plain sight at one time.
This is an excerpt from his most recent newsletter. You might be available to find it if you sign up for past newsletters.

Here's his main website address:
http://www.elshaddaiministries.us/

Prophesy Unfolding
More Signs of the Times We Live In

We have the potential for some prophetic news coming soon and here is a recent headline and you can follow the link:

Blair: New Mideast Peace Plan Unveiled in Weeks

An interesting quote from it is this:
President Barack Obama is holding separate meetings at the White House this month with the Israeli, Palestinian and Egyptian leaders to hear their views. Once those meetings are over, the Quartet is to convene in Washington to discuss and present the new strategy, Blair said. The Quartet includes the U.S., the United Nations, the European Union and Russia. "I think that within the next five to six weeks, you will have a very clear picture of what the plan is," Blair said.

The haftarah portion from the prophets that is read around the world by Jews coming up June 6th is very significantly related. It is Zech 2-4. Here is the preface to it from Zech 1:

Zec 1:17-21
"Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem. Then lifted I up mine eyes, and saw, and behold four horns. And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What be these? And he answered me, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem. And the LORD showed me four carpenters. Then said I, What come these to do? And he spake, saying, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, so that no man did lift up his head: but these are come to bring terror to them, to cast out the horns of the Gentiles, which lifted up their horn over the land of Judah to scatter it. "

In Zechariah 2 we find Jerusalem is being measured. And then we find:

Zec 2:8-10
"For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye. For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me. Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD. "

by **1whowaits** on Tue May 19, 2009 5:02 pm

peanuts, thanks for the link, yes it is quite interesting that the Jewish people would be reading Zech 1 and 2 at this time. This would appear to be a time that is ripe for the Lord to draw Israel back to Himself, and a time for the gentile nations that are dividing Israel and Jerusalem to be dealt with.

by **plalgum** on Wed May 20, 2009 8:37 am

If anyone would like to see the artifacts that will go in the new temple click here scroll down and select http://www.templeinstitute.org/gallery.htm

by **Mttw633** on Wed May 20, 2009 1:21 pm

I also find the timing of Iran test firing a missile capable of reaching Israel the DAY BEFORE Jerusalem Day and presenting the cornerstone a little suspicious.

by **Mttw633** on Wed May 20, 2009 5:05 pm

1whowaits wrote:Nony, where did the link go? hey, i was only speculatiing, 5/21 may have no significance at all, but it is interesting.

The link Nony posted showed that on 5/21 the moon, Mars and Venus would appear to be in a triangular formation over the constellation Piceses, the fish. It is believed that Piceses is associated with Israel and a celestial sign in this constellation could point to an event in Israel. Venus and the moon on opposite sides could picture the battle between Christ and Satan, involving Israel. Mars could be associated with war or the angel Michael, who may defend Israel.

This type of sign could point to the events on earth in reality being part of the war in heaven.

It may be conincidence but this sign on this date, the anniversary of the ascension, the events concerning the temple cornerstone, the gentile nations basically getting ready to force Israel to accept a 2 state solution, is quite interesting.

WATCH THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi9e6gIZ_EY
I know this doesn't have anything to do w/ Israel, but why would he use that comment on 'the stars are aligned', and what's with this sense of urgency and is it any way related?

by **WallDoctor** on Wed May 20, 2009 8:14 pm

I understand that it is exciting that the Temple is close to being built from a Christian standpoint. It shows us that Christ will be returning very soon.

But to me, it's also a sad thing. The fact that they are working towards the rebuilding of the Temple to me also shows just how far their hearts are from God. They have abandoned God. They have abandoned Christ. They are trying to worship God in a manner which God himself has torn down. Judaism is a false religion today that is in direct Rebellion against God. Shouldn't a part of us be sad to see this false worship taking place, praying for these people to come to true repentance, that they will believe in the messiah that they have rejected?

I understand that God will use this great evil for great good. But it is still evil that is in their heart. To rebuild the Temple and restart Sacrifices should cause us sorrow even as we know a great thing is going to come as a result of it. When Lazarus died, Jesus wept, and then glorified God by bringing him back to life. But he was weeping and not getting all excited as he saw the effects of sin on the world.

by **learningmama** on Wed May 20, 2009 9:07 pm

I agree with you that this is sobering and we should not be rejoicing about false worship, etc. It also could seem odd that we're so eager for these two big wars in the Middle East. The way I see it, it's not that I want these things to happen... of course I do not want all of the suffering and deception! But because they are prophesied and will surely happen without a doubt, I feel like I'm just eager to get on with it and eliminate all the other suffering that would potentially happen if life goes on for some time yet. Does that make sense? It's not at all about being eager for the negatives, it's just that the negatives are necessary before the great Positive... so let's get this yuck over with and get to the good part! I trust God to arrange the timing so that each individual has the correct amount of time allotted to them to have a chance to believe.

by **peanutsrnuts** on Thu May 21, 2009 8:40 am

I did a little hunting on the net to find out about this triangulation of Mars, Venus, and the Crescent Moon which occurred today, May 21st, 2009. I saw this today in the early morning. It was spectacular.

I am not at all sure of what this particular triangulation may portend, if anything, but it is nevertheless quite lovely to behold. It should be viewable Saturday as well, although you might need binoculars to find it. Sunday is a New Moon so it won't likely be visible.

Here's some information on this beautiful display.

http://www.earthsky.org/skywatching/

If you go to the website posted above, there's a beautiful illustration of this celestial event.

On Wednesday and Thursday mornings, the moon appeared near the planets Venus and Mars in the eastern predawn sky.

So it is tomorrow morning as well, although the moon you’ll see on Friday morning will be the thinnest of waning crescents. Will you see the moon on Saturday? It’s doubtful, but you might if you use binoculars to sweep near the sunrise, in the last moments before the sun breaks over the eastern horizon.

New moon – when the moon will come closet to being between the Earth and sun for this month – will be on Sunday, May 24. If you’ve watched over the past few mornings, you know the moon has been appearing as a thinner crescent every day. It’s been appearing closer and closer to the rising sun. This is natural. The moon does this every month.

In other words, this motion of the moon across our sky is a translation of the moon’s actual motion in orbit around Earth. If you like, try extending your gaze into three-dimensional space. Perhaps you’ll recognize that the ‘day’ side of the moon has been turning increasingly away from Earth’s direction in space, as the moon prepares to slide between the Earth and sun on Sunday.

Also, if you have watched (or study the charts for Wednesday, Thursday and today) you might get a sense of the moon moving in orbit around Earth.

http://www.dudleyobservatory.org/InTheS ... _2009.html

Early risers will be treated to an elegant gathering of bright objects before sunrise tomorrow (Thursday) morning. Venus and Mars, which are sticking close together all through this month, will be joined by the waning crescent Moon to form a picturesque triangle, with Mars directly below the Moon, and Venus just to the right of the other two, as the sky is beginning to brighten, at about 4:30 a.m. Use binoculars.

Audio teaching link:

Website: www.whatsupinastronomy.com Email: astronomypodcast@gmail.com.
on second half of May 2009 Astronomy Events to watch for:

http://portaltotheuniverse.org/podcasts/eps/view/10831/

At 1 minute 40 second mark he talks about this equilateral triangle formed by Mars, Venus, and the Crescent Moon which occurred May 21, 2009.

by **nike** on Thu May 21, 2009 9:55 am

Has anyone found any news from Jerusalem that this stone was "presented to the people"? Perhaps this is not big enough news to cover, but I can't find anything that says it happened...I guess there's still time left in the day, though technically at sundown it will be tomorrow...

by **kazbo** on Thu May 21, 2009 10:02 am

The fact that they are working towards the rebuilding of the Temple to me also shows just how far their hearts are from God. They have abandoned God.

I don't see it that way at all. By building a temple, by even wanting a temple, they are expressing, in the only way they know, their desire for God and his presence with them.

by **AF4Liberty** on Thu May 21, 2009 5:33 pm

kazbo wrote:
The fact that they are working towards the rebuilding of the Temple to me also shows just how far their hearts are from God. They have abandoned God.

I don't see it that way at all. By building a temple, by even wanting a temple, they are expressing, in the only way they know, their desire for God and his presence with them.

Agreed. For the past 2000 years, they've nearly all turned away from the God of their forefathers. Acknowledging His existence and the covenant's He made with them is a start in the right direction. It's actually a start in the end-times direction....

:grin:

by **WallDoctor** on Thu May 21, 2009 7:50 pm

kazbo wrote:I don't see it that way at all. By building a temple, by even wanting a temple, they are expressing, in the only way they know, their desire for God and his presence with them.

You can say that about every false religion. All false religions are seeking God. What makes them false isn't their fervent sincerity but their fervent rejection and rebellion against Jesus Christ the Messiah. They redefine God to be what he is not. They are completely repulsed by what he is. Most Jewish believers have heard of Jesus Christ. They understand that Christianity teaches that he is the Messiah, the Son of God. At that point, they reject who God is and make themselves a false religion no different then any other. We might as well say that Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses are on the right path as well because they hold to many Judeo-Christians ideas. But when we see a new "Kingdom Hall" built in our city, are we thrilled that "they are expressing, in the only way they know, their desire for God and his presence with them."

Luke 12:48 - But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

They were given the Word of God and all the prophecies that pointed to Jesus. They rejected them all and still do to this day. Do you really think God is pleased with them for their seeking him "the only way they know" when they were given everything to know and rejected it. We are not talking about a group of untaught believers who just need someone to come alongside them to show them greater truth like Apollos in Acts 18:24. The fact that they pursue Temple worship is Rebellion against God and continued rejection of Jesus Christ.

On one level I can be thrilled that Christ return is so close and that things are rapidly coming together but that should only spur us even more to realize that many of those Jews who are celebrating in the street today are marching to their eternal damnation in proud rebellion against the only hope in the universe. What should cause us real joy is to see them throw that cornerstone down, spit on it, and fall on their knees in repentance and submission to Jesus Christ. Anything short is just condemnation on their souls.

by **1whowaits** on Thu May 21, 2009 8:56 pm

Spit on the cornerstone of the Temple? That is an interesting comment considering that Jesus Himself will help rebuild the Temple during the millenium, according to Zech 6- 'Here is the man whose name is the Branch, and he will branch out from this place and build the Temple of the Lord. It is he who will build the temple of the Lord, and he will sit clothed in majesty and will sit and rule on his throne. And there will be harmony between the two.'

It is well recognized that the 'Branch' is a reference to Jesus, and it is through Jesus that there will be harmony between the office of the priest and the king.

And there will be sacrifices during the millenium according to Zech 14- 'Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them.'

Jesus is the atonement for sin, offered once for all, He has made the sin offering of the blood of animals null and void. But not all offerings were for sin, many were acts of worship and fellowship.

And God has never stated that He does not wish His temple rebuilt. In fact He gives a detailed plan for a temple that has not yet been built, indicating that it will likely be built in the future when the people of Israel 'are ashamed of all they have done, make known to them the design of the temple...write these down before them so they may be faithful to its design and follow its regulations.' Ezek 43. From Ezek 43 it does appear that God indeed wishes this temple to be built at some time in the future (its description follows that of Gog-Magog).

We are the temple of the Holy Spirit and yet we build churches and call them them houses of God, why do we do that if we are the temple? We do that because the church serves as a focal point of worship and a place for us to assemble together.

So also is the Temple of God for Israel, and the world, it is a place to focus the worship of God and a place of assembly. And Zech 14 describes all the nations of the world going up to Jerusalem to worship Jesus at the feast of Tabernacles, a feast that involved fellowship offerings. As Zech 14 also alludes to the making of sacrifices, as Zech 6 alludes to Jesus rebuilding the temple, it would appear that the nations will be going up to Jerusalem to worship Jesus the King, likely in the rebuilt 'millenial temple', that Ezk 40-48 describes.

The rebuilding of the temple by Israel does appear to be desired by the Lord according to Zech 1- 'I will return to Jerusalem with mercy, and there my house will be rebuilt' (said in the context of describing the 'horsemen' of different colors and the dividing of Jerusalem). Certainly He also desires that the Jewish people accept Jesus as Messiah and King and worship Him, which they will do when He returns at armageddon, according to Zech 12.

And God does appear to wish a temple to be present, He has 1 in heaven as Rev describes, if He were against Temples for Him, it would be unlikely that He would have 1 in heaven or have Jesus build one. In fact, the the only time that the temple will be no more will be during eternity, when God lives with men on the earth, God Himself will be the temple, as Rev 21 describes.

It is likely that Israel will experience an event such as Gog-magog and God will make Himself known to Israel, and the world, at that time. Israel would be expected to respond by rebuilding the Temple, that is how they know the Lord, through the OT and the law. And at some point later Israel will accept Jesus as messiah and Lord, as indicated by the 144,000 and the 'faithful remnant' who survive the 70th week.

That the temple will be rebuilt is indicated in Rev 11 which does describe a literal rebuilt temple with worshippers present. Also Dan 8, 9, 11, Matt 24, 2 Thess 2 all refer to events in that rebuilt temple.

And the temple will have future use during the millenium as Dan 8 indicates that after the 2,300 days the temple will be 'reconsecrated', which is something only God can do, man does not 'consecrate' anything.

The rebuilding of the Temple is not part of a false religion, but the rejection of the blood of Jesus as atonement for sin is. I think it would be unwise to 'spit' on something Jesus Himself will be rebuilding and likely be worshipped in during the millenium.

by **WallDoctor** on Thu May 21, 2009 10:43 pm

1whowaits wrote:The rebuilding of the Temple is not part of a false religion, but the rejection of the blood of Jesus as atonement for sin is. I think it would be unwise to 'spit' on something Jesus Himself will be rebuilding and likely be worshipped in during the millenium.

You went on a very long tangent there and completely avoided my major point. Yes I did say spit on the cornerstone and said it without thinking through all the ramifications of what that meant. What I I meant though was that their purpose and their agenda are sinful and wrong in their desire to build the Temple. They are not building the Temple as a church building by which they can worship God through his Son, they are building it to worship a monotheistic, non-trinitarian god who does not exist. So my call to spit on the cornerstone was more of the idea to put away their evil motives and reasoning and sinful purpose to worship God in a way other than he has called every man to. To believe in Jesus Christ. To deny him is to deny God. If we are not Christs friends, we are his enemies. Those Jews who do not believe in Jesus Christ are the absolute Enemy of God. Just as any of us are who reject him. So I apologize for saying "spit on the cornerstone" but if you understood my point, beyond a quick reminder that God does have a good purpose for the temple, you wouldn't have needed to go into a lengthy reprimand without actually acknowledging the real point.

by **Grets Sirob** on Fri May 22, 2009 11:30 am

I think what's trying to be said here is that the Temple is an important place of worship and something that God desires to be built for His glory, but that the hearts of the people are not in the right place, as they have not all accepted Yeshua as their Messiah, but have instead rejected Him (and by extension, God).
And I think we can all agree on that, because I don't think anyone has denied that the Temple itself will be used to God's glory, or that the people of Israel have yet to reach that point of complete submission to God.
May His Kingdom come soon!

by **WallDoctor** on Fri May 22, 2009 1:45 pm

OBXBob wrote:Do you believe that the Jewish people's rejection of Jesus has in any way changed the unfulfilled promises that God has made to them?

That is a good question!! :grin:

Actually, It's a non-issue for me since I'm a Gentile and won't be around in the Millenium Kingdom will I? My basic opinion is this. There are no promises left for unrepentant Israel. They will all die and go to Hell. For those that repent and I do believe that would be the 144,000, they will receive the fulfillment of the promises God made to them. Those promises will be for the Remnant of believing Israel not all who are in the nation. As such, we need to be evangelists and pray for them and not applaud their rebellion even as we understand it to be the next important step to Christs return.

I got to go to work, I'm a bit late as it is so I hope that made sense. I'll reply to the other comment later

by **IamtheWalrus** on Fri May 22, 2009 7:15 pm

WallDoctor wrote: There are no promises left for unrepentant Israel. They will all die and go to Hell.

Exactly.

As for the remnant, there will always be one, and those will receive the promises to the Kingdom, as will those Gentiles that believe. Both of them are one...the church. Thus the symbolism of the 144K.

by **kazbo** on Fri May 22, 2009 9:27 pm

I do not disagree that the Jews rejected their Messiah and continue to reject him. There is only one way to the Father, and that through Jesus Christ. Any Jew who dies without Jesus dies lost. However...

Romans 10 & 11:
Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) "or 'Who will descend into the deep?" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
"Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world." Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
"I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding." And Isaiah boldly says,
"I was found by those who did not seek me;
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me." But concerning Israel he says,
"All day long I have held out my hands
to a disobedient and obstinate people."

I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: "Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"? And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal." So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, as it is written:
"God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes so that they could not see
and ears so that they could not hear,
to this very day." And David says:
"May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever."

Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!

I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."

As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Considering the riches of salvation that have come to us as a result of the Jew's disobedience, and the fact that Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, perhaps you could speak of them without such scorn? You have received mercy as a result of their disobedience.

by **kazbo** on Fri May 22, 2009 9:32 pm

a monotheistic, non-trinitarian god who does not exist

I thought the Jews worshipped the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? Isn’t that the same God we know?

by **IamtheWalrus** on Fri May 22, 2009 9:38 pm

kazbo wrote:
a monotheistic, non-trinitarian god who does not exist

I thought the Jews worshipped the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? Isn’t that the same God we know?

So does Islam. The difference is Jesus.

by **1whowaits** on Fri May 22, 2009 10:14 pm

Actually, God's covenant with Abraham, Issac and Jacob is still in effect with Israel, although they must confess their sins according to Lev 26:40- 'If they will confess their sins and the sins of their fathers- their treachery against me and their hostility toward me, which made me hostile toward them so I sent them into the land of their enemies- then when their uncircumcised hearts are humbled and they pay for their sin, I will remember my covenant with Jacob and my covenant with Issac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land.'

'For the land will be deserted by them and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them...I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the Lord their God. But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors whom I brought out of Egypt in the sight of the nations to be their God. I am the Lord.'

It would appear that the land covenant with Israel is still in effect, if they confess their sin in being hostile to God, Yaweh, they will be restored to the land. This does not appear to be a reference to repenting of rejecting Jesus as Messiah, this is not the New Covenant or the receiving of eternal life, it is the land covenant made with Abraham for his decendants.

It does appear that the Jewish people can repent to God the Father and be restored to their land and be blessed by God based on the covenant with Abraham. This covenant with Abraham does not include the cleansing of sin or the obtaining of eternal life, which can only be obtained through faith in Jesus Christ, which would be the New Covenant.

And it does appear that Israel will have this land covenant fulfilled in the future as Ezek 45, 47 and 48 describes, possibly prior to Jesus' return. And the inheritance of Israel during the millenium does appear to be different from that of the church.

While the inheritance of Israel is the land with the boundaries described in Ezek 47, Dan 7 states that the saints receive all the nations- 'Then the soverignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole of heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High', which will occur after Jesus' return during the millenium.

During the millenium, those who believed prior to Jesus' return in the clouds, the church, will have been resurrected and raptured, they will have new bodies. On the other hand it appears that Israel accepts Jesus after His return, when He is seen in the clouds, according to Zech 12. As Israel is still present on the earth and Jesus returns and rescues them in Zech 14, it would appear that the nation of Israel that does survive and accepts Jesus will go into the millenium in their mortal bodies.

So it may be that believing, repentant Israel will receive the land as God promised in their mortal bodies during the millenium, while those who had been resurrected and raptured, both Jew and gentile- the church, will rule all the kingdoms with Christ in their immortal bodies.

It would appear that during the millenium, the rewards of Israel and the rewards of those who believed before Christ's return would be different. After the millenium, the reward would be the same, all would have immortal bodies and receive the eternal inheritance of the New Jerusalem.

by **WallDoctor** on Fri May 22, 2009 11:16 pm

kazbo wrote:Considering the riches of salvation that have come to us as a result of the Jew's disobedience, and the fact that Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, perhaps you could speak of them without such scorn? You have received mercy as a result of their disobedience.

I think you completely misunderstand my point Kazbo. You act like I am some Anti-Semite who believes we should put Jews in concentration camps or something. I do not scorn the Jews who deny Christ just as I don't scorn my mother and father who have rejected Christ. And that's my point. I love my sister and love to see the day she accepts Christ and repent of her sins. But until that day, I don't pretend she is okay with God. She knows I am a Christian and when opportunity allows, I am a witness to her telling her of Christ and her need of him. The fact that she reject our Savior causes me to be sad to look upon her life and realize just what sad state she is in. I don't rejoice when she does things which are contrary to God. I don't rejoice because my sister lives with her boyfriend because she is happy with him even if one day it will lead to a legitimate marriage (for which I will be happy).

In the same way, I don't rejoice when I see Israel perform acts which are now acts of rebellion against God even if one day they will lead to a legitimate relationship with God. Just with the example of my sister. First comes marriage and then she can build her house. Let Israel repent of her sins, trusting in her Savior, Jesus Christ, and then let her build the Temple and I rejoice with her. But though I understand it needs to happen from an Eschatological standpoint, from the heart of the Israelite, it's the same as having a baby out of wedlock (which my sister also has done). Is the baby a blessing? Sure. Do we congratulate and applaud the incorrect order? No.

Many here seem to confuse Gods future plan for Israel with Israel's current rebellion. In Israels current rebellion, they need evangelists to spread the gospel to them. In the future plans of God, that Gospel will have come to fruit. We don't rejoice the lost souls before us even if we know that some of them are the very elect of God who will one day turn to Christ---for just like our neighbors around us, we don't know who the elect are and must spread the gospel to all of them. In this age, we are not to treat the Jews and gentiles separately but realize both groups need salvation.

Anyway, I fell asleep on the couch, woke up and thought I'd reply before going back to bed. Hope this makes sense.

But in summary, I do not scorn the Jews but think we are all wrong if our desire isn't to see them saved as God has so mercifully (and we undeservedly) saved us.

by **WallDoctor** on Fri May 22, 2009 11:23 pm

1whowaits wrote:It does appear that the Jewish people can repent to God the Father and be restored to their land and be blessed by God based on the covenant with Abraham. This covenant with Abraham does not include the cleansing of sin or the obtaining of eternal life, which can only be obtained through faith in Jesus Christ, which would be the New Covenant.

I disagree with this. You can not repent to the Father and at the same time rebelliously reject Christ. Repentance to God will be through Christ. Any other way I reject because it makes a mockery of what Christ did. What your suggesting is no different then if one of your children kills your wife and never apologizes and yet you still give them a car because they say they love you. I don't think so. Under the New Covenant, all deals previously brokered with Israel must be upon condition of accepting Christ who is a fulfillment of all old covenant prophecies anyway. The very fact that the Jews want to bring back blood sacrifices is a proof that they still reject Christ (beyond the obvious other rejections).

Again though, why am I still up, Insanity!!! 2:23 am. UCK!!!!

by **Pretzelogical** on Sat May 23, 2009 6:27 am

Jesus is already building the temple; and you are it, Believers!
Scripture tells us:
-Jesus is the chief cornerstone that the builders rejected.
-the temple is being built upon the prophets.
-believers are living stones in the temple.
-believers are the holy city, the new Jerusalem.
-the steadfast will be pillars in the temple.
-the temple (believers) will come down from heaven with Jesus when He returns
-Jesus is evaluating the temple (believers) and its apostasy that must come before the Day of the LORD
-the bodies of the believers are the temple of God
-the Holy Spirit dwells in believers as a guarantee we are sealed for redeeming; where God dwells, that is a holy place.

...it goes on and on throughout the scriptures...

The curtain to the Holy of Holies was torn from top to bottom at the time of Jesus death. The gig was up. No more temple. No need for anymore grain and blood sacrifices as the Bread of Life shed His blood. Believers are to be poured out like drink offerings and living sacrifices.

Judaism is ecumenically tolerant. The Pope is also on that agenda. The president of the most powerful nation is Muslim, and will destroy/remove the power of the USA to push the one world government into place for the Anti-Christ. A stone temple is an idol. Believers are to have hope in the ROCK, not man-made buildings projects of Nimrod (Babel, Nineveh). It is blasphemous to think the Jews having a temple is a good thing when God destroyed its use at the exact time He gave up His own Son for us. The temple was a picture. The temple is a picture. Believers are the true temple.

by **IamtheWalrus** on Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am

1whowaits wrote:Actually, God's covenant with Abraham, Issac and Jacob is still in effect with Israel,

You are very wrong here 1WW. This covenant was renewed with Christ's sacrifice. Just because the Jewish system did not see it is irrelevant to the fact. The relevance of their blindness was predestined and preordained so that Gentiles could receive the blessing. Because Jews would not allow it was the sole purpose of their blindness to Christ. A stubborn and stiff-necked people. What your view does here is undermine the work on the cross. This is a problem I see amongst many eschatological circles. They consider the OT, and a majority of its prophecies to be still in effect, when they were practically all fulfilled in Christ. Very little has to do with His second coming and most of them had to do with His first advent, death and resurrection. Until this is grasped, I feel most, if not all of their interpretation to prophecy will be misconstrued and confusing.

'

by **kazbo** on Sat May 23, 2009 9:03 am

Very little has to do with His second coming

Are we reading the same Bible?

by **IamtheWalrus** on Sat May 23, 2009 9:06 am

Yes we are. Are you understanding it? It appears not so from that question.

by **IamtheWalrus** on Sat May 23, 2009 9:08 am

Do most people here believe there are two covenants? Do you Kazbo? 1WW? Exit40?

by **Mrs. B** on Sat May 23, 2009 10:55 am

13 Ton Temple Corner Stone to be Presented to the People....

Jesus is the Cornerstone....He is the builder of the Temple......The Branch...

Know ye not that your body is the Temple of the Holy Ghost...

II Corin. 6:16b.....For ye are the Temple of the Living God:
as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God and they shall be My People...

This is talking about the Born Again Believer...Born of God....THE CHURCH

I Corin. 6:19....WHAT? Know ye not that your body is the TEMPLE OF THE HOLY GHOST which is in you,
which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20....For ye arae bought with a Price:
therefore Glorify God in Your Body, and in your Spirit, which are God's....

Jesus said....It is Finished......the vail was torn in two.....opening the Holiest of Holiest the Ark was seen...
The Spirit of God left the Temple ........and Now we Are the Temple of the Living God....

And On the Day of Penticost.....God Poured out His Spirit on the Believers....

Stephen said...
Acts 7:47.....But Solomon built him an house...

48.....HOWBEIT....The Most High dwelleth NOT in Temples mad with hands;
as saith the prophet...

49....Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool:
What House will ye build me? saith the Lord:
Or what is the place of my rest?

50...Hath not my hand made all these things?

51...Ye Stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears,
ye do always resist the Holy Ghost:
as your fathers did, so do ye....

The House of God is the Body of Christ...The Church...The House that Jesus Built by His Holy Spirit...
If you are a Christian it is because the Holy Spirit drew you to Jesus......He is the Builder of the Temple...
We are the Body or dwelling of God...Jesus Living in me.....

This is an Abomination to God.......

bb

by **AndCanItBe** on Sat May 23, 2009 11:53 am

It is my understanding, I get a lot of this from Marv Rosenthal, that there were three major covenants in the OT. The Abrahamic Covenant (Genesis 15), the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 19), and the Davidic Covenant (2 Samuel 7).

I'm going to skip the Davidic Covenant, it doesn't seem to be all that relevant here to me, except to say it is not yet fulfilled because Christ isn't ruling, in person, here on earth yet.

The Abrahamic Covenant was all about righteousness apart from the law through faith. There was no law given at that time, and there was no "if you do this, then I'll do this", there were no conditions, God just promised Abraham his descendants would be numerous as a reward for his faith that had made him righteous and we understand from Romans in the NT that this was certainly based on faith and not works and that Abraham's descendents aren't only Jews, but faithful Gentiles also. This covenant has never been rescinded or entirely fulfilled because Abraham's physical and spiritual descendants still do not posess the land and we are still saved by faith.

The Mosaic Covenant was all about the law. It was conditional. "If you do this, then God will do this". We understand from the NT, again from Romans, that the Law was introduced to make us aware of sin, and the need for blood to be shed to atone for it. The law couldn't be kept, every last one failed at it. Some were counted righteous though, because through faith, they entered into Abraham's covenant, which made their obedience and sacrifice acceptable to God.

So enter Jesus where the law and grace meet. The Mosiac law is fulfilled and the sacrifice for the violations of it permanent, thus perfecting the original covenant with Abraham also, which required the blood of animals as well. People have always been saved by grace through faith, no one has ever been saved by keeping the law.

None of that means that God is done with Israel as a nation though. There is still the last week of Daniel, there is still the literal fulfillment of many things that were prophesied that still need to happen, like the literal fulfillment of the remaining feasts. Just because God isn't done with Israel though, doesn't make this temple they are trying to rebuild okay because, as has already been pointed out, Jesus is the cornerstone. God uses the disobedience of a people to bring about the fulfillment of His will also though, not just obedience. IMO, that's what's going on here. Through their disobedience prophecy will be fulfilled.

by **IamtheWalrus** on Sat May 23, 2009 12:36 pm

The only way the Jews are going to get saved is accept Christ as their saviour. That is the message to the remnant Jews. This is the message they must adhere. Building a temple won't bring them any closer to Jesus.

God won't allow His name to be profaned in that manner. 70 AD wasn't signature enough for people?

by **AndCanItBe** on Sat May 23, 2009 12:59 pm

IamtheWalrus wrote:The only way the Jews are going to get saved is accept Christ as their saviour. That is the message to the remnant Jews. This is the message they must adhere. Building a temple won't bring them any closer to Jesus.

I hope nothing in my post suggested that I don't think Jesus is the only way for both Jew and Gentile. I agree building a temple won't bring them any closer to Jesus, but it would be setting the stage for fulfillment of the AOD.

by **IamtheWalrus** on Sat May 23, 2009 1:08 pm

ACIB,

no that wasn't what I was implying...sorry if it may have appeared so. What I am implying is that there aren't two, three or four covenants in place, for everyone. Just one. The AOD is this folks:

Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Judas was in the church, The temple is our hearts. The falling away, or apostacy must come first, just like in Judas' case, he fell away, and betrayed Christ, so that the scripture be fulfilled. Just so this was a shadow of things to come in the church. The apostacy must come first, so that this man, in the church, must be able to exalt himself, now listen very carefully, in the hearts of Christians following him....that is the message. He will claim to be God, usurping the position of Christ, may even say he is Christ, but because of apostacy, he will be welcomed as such.

Have wisdom.