Hello Mrs. B.,
Yes, I definitely agree with you that each of us as believers are the Temple of God as the Holy Spirit resides in each of us. However, I don't think this means that there will not yet be a 3rd Temple erected in Jerusalem. Most Jewish people have still not accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and this is why we see the Sanhedrin pushing to get another Temple constructed.
I believe this yet-to-be constructed third Temple is the same temple we read of in Daniel, Matthew, 2 Thessalonians, and Revelation:
Daniel 9: 27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Matthew 24:15. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
2 Thessalonians 2:
3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Revelation 11
1. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
So, I think these verses indicate there will be a physical building, that is, the Temple, that will be standing in Jerusalem in the mid-point of the 70th week of Daniel.
YBIC,
Bob
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The He is Messiah....
by Mrs. B on Thu May 03, 2007 10:25 pm
Dear Bob.....
I know this is a popular teaching but......I see the he....... as Jesus..or Messiah...
Daniel 9:26.....And after three score and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off....
but not for himself:
and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;
and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations ae determined.
27....And he..(Messiah) shall confim the covenant with many for one week:
Jesus shall confirm the covenant (the Blood Covenant) with many for one week....but in the midst.....3 1/2 years.....We have the two witnesses for 1260 days......Prophseying and Witnessing to the whole world.....and in the midst.....the doors to salvation will be closed.....Jesus shall come and the Vials of Wrath Poured out on the Wicked.....
and in the midst of the week.......he (Jesus) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease......
the sacrifice for sin will cease.......and the viols of Wrath are poured out on the wicked.....
and for the overspreading of abominations....He (Jesus) shall make it desolate....even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.....
at the last.......the Wrath of God is Poured out.....and the door to the Temple (the Temple in heaven) will be closed.....and Judgment is poured upon the world.......
Now......there is no where in the Bible about a Temple being rebuilt.....
Other then when Jesus comes back and rules from Jerusalem for a thousand years....but no a/c temple.... I believe the dwelling of satan is in the church.....Deceving the people.......I believe the Temple is the Body of Christ......we are The Temple of God.....and Jesus said...If it were possible even the very elect would be deceived......
I believe the A/c Spirit in the church....another Christ....Deceiving the body of Christ.......a false christ....teaching another gospel......another spirit......not the teaching of Jesus......but mans teaching....and doctrine...deceving and being deceived.......
bb
I know this is a popular teaching but......I see the he....... as Jesus..or Messiah...
Daniel 9:26.....And after three score and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off....
but not for himself:
and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;
and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations ae determined.
27....And he..(Messiah) shall confim the covenant with many for one week:
Jesus shall confirm the covenant (the Blood Covenant) with many for one week....but in the midst.....3 1/2 years.....We have the two witnesses for 1260 days......Prophseying and Witnessing to the whole world.....and in the midst.....the doors to salvation will be closed.....Jesus shall come and the Vials of Wrath Poured out on the Wicked.....
and in the midst of the week.......he (Jesus) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease......
the sacrifice for sin will cease.......and the viols of Wrath are poured out on the wicked.....
and for the overspreading of abominations....He (Jesus) shall make it desolate....even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.....
at the last.......the Wrath of God is Poured out.....and the door to the Temple (the Temple in heaven) will be closed.....and Judgment is poured upon the world.......
Now......there is no where in the Bible about a Temple being rebuilt.....
Other then when Jesus comes back and rules from Jerusalem for a thousand years....but no a/c temple.... I believe the dwelling of satan is in the church.....Deceving the people.......I believe the Temple is the Body of Christ......we are The Temple of God.....and Jesus said...If it were possible even the very elect would be deceived......
I believe the A/c Spirit in the church....another Christ....Deceiving the body of Christ.......a false christ....teaching another gospel......another spirit......not the teaching of Jesus......but mans teaching....and doctrine...deceving and being deceived.......
bb
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
by Wickus on Fri May 04, 2007 1:41 am
Mrs.B wrote:
I think with the scripture reverences that Bob gave in his post, it is very naive to say what you say. It makes me think of the people that argued as soon as a 100 years ago that Israel will never exist as a nation again, and the Church is the new Israel. It seemed impossible for them to ever see how Israel can be a country again after 1900 years.
Just as that has been fulfilled in our time, I believe these scriptures will also be fulfilled about the temple.
I do not believe God will approve of the temple, as Jesus was the Lamb slain for our sins and no other sacrifice is necessary, but for the prophecies to be fulfilled He will allow them to build it. We must keep in mind that Israel as a nation does still not except Jesus as their Messiah. They only serve God trough the laws of Moses and the prophets. So the religious Jews will try to honor God by Temple service.
God bless you!
Now......there is no where in the Bible about a Temple being rebuilt.....
Other then when Jesus comes back and rules from Jerusalem for a thousand years....but no a/c temple....
I think with the scripture reverences that Bob gave in his post, it is very naive to say what you say. It makes me think of the people that argued as soon as a 100 years ago that Israel will never exist as a nation again, and the Church is the new Israel. It seemed impossible for them to ever see how Israel can be a country again after 1900 years.
Just as that has been fulfilled in our time, I believe these scriptures will also be fulfilled about the temple.
I do not believe God will approve of the temple, as Jesus was the Lamb slain for our sins and no other sacrifice is necessary, but for the prophecies to be fulfilled He will allow them to build it. We must keep in mind that Israel as a nation does still not except Jesus as their Messiah. They only serve God trough the laws of Moses and the prophets. So the religious Jews will try to honor God by Temple service.
God bless you!
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
-
Wickus - Posts: 1339
- Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:31 pm
by OBXBob on Fri May 04, 2007 5:36 am
Hello Mrs. B.,
Relating to Daniel 9:27, You wrote:
I realize preterists and others believe this to be the case. Aside from there not being any historical events that would tie the 69.5th week to Jesus' crucifixion to a beginning event whose timing coincides with the beginning of the 70th week, one could debate the meaning of this verse indefinitely. However, I feel like we should not make any verse an island unto itself; all verses are connected to all other verses. I think there is too much evidence to link Matthew 24:15, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 with Daniel 9:26-27. Jesus tells us about the abomination of desolation spoken of by the Prophet Daniel in Matthew 24:15, standing in the Holy Place. The description ties back to Daniel 9:27. Further, 2 Thessalonians gives us even more insight as to the identity of this person...THE SON OF PERDITION SITTING IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD SHOWING HIMSELF TO BE GOD! And there you have it!
You wrote:
You're correct; the construction plans are not referenced, but I don't think that is what's important. We're also not told the A/C was born, when he was born, or how old he will be...but this does not mean he will not be. The aforementioned scriptures appear to clearly tell us that there will be a Temple; a physical building which the A/C / Son of Perdition will stand in, proclaiming himself to be God. We also see reference to a Temple coexisting along with the two witnesses in the verses I referenced.
Who do you believe is being spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24:15?
Who do you believe Paul is referring to in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4?
How do you interpret Revelation 11:1-3?
YBIC,
Bob
Relating to Daniel 9:27, You wrote:
I know this is a popular teaching but......I see the he....... as Jesus..or Messiah...
I realize preterists and others believe this to be the case. Aside from there not being any historical events that would tie the 69.5th week to Jesus' crucifixion to a beginning event whose timing coincides with the beginning of the 70th week, one could debate the meaning of this verse indefinitely. However, I feel like we should not make any verse an island unto itself; all verses are connected to all other verses. I think there is too much evidence to link Matthew 24:15, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 with Daniel 9:26-27. Jesus tells us about the abomination of desolation spoken of by the Prophet Daniel in Matthew 24:15, standing in the Holy Place. The description ties back to Daniel 9:27. Further, 2 Thessalonians gives us even more insight as to the identity of this person...THE SON OF PERDITION SITTING IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD SHOWING HIMSELF TO BE GOD! And there you have it!
You wrote:
Now......there is no where in the Bible about a Temple being rebuilt.....
You're correct; the construction plans are not referenced, but I don't think that is what's important. We're also not told the A/C was born, when he was born, or how old he will be...but this does not mean he will not be. The aforementioned scriptures appear to clearly tell us that there will be a Temple; a physical building which the A/C / Son of Perdition will stand in, proclaiming himself to be God. We also see reference to a Temple coexisting along with the two witnesses in the verses I referenced.
Who do you believe is being spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24:15?
Who do you believe Paul is referring to in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4?
How do you interpret Revelation 11:1-3?
YBIC,
Bob
-
OBXBob - Posts: 15257
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:37 am
by OBXBob on Fri May 04, 2007 5:43 am
Wickus wrote:
YBIC,
Bob
I do not believe God will approve of the temple, as Jesus was the Lamb slain for our sins and no other sacrifice is necessary, but for the prophecies to be fulfilled He will allow them to build it. We must keep in mind that Israel as a nation does still not except Jesus as their Messiah. They only serve God trough the laws of Moses and the prophets. So the religious Jews will try to honor God by Temple service.
YBIC,
Bob
-
OBXBob - Posts: 15257
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:37 am
by Mrs. B on Fri May 04, 2007 10:55 am
Mrs. B
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 459
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: Temple Watch.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The third temple?
First we have the Tabernacle......in the wilderness
Then Solomon's Temple
Then the rebuilding of the Temple after the destruction....
Then Heriod's temple...
This is the Prophecies about the Temple.....
Zech. 1:16......Therefore thus saith the Lord;
I Am Returned to Jerusalem with Mercies:
My House shall be built in it, Saith the Lord of Hosts...
And a Line Shall be Stretched Forth upon Jerusalem....
(Jesus said.......Straight and Narrow is the Way....and few be that find it....
The Plumline fortold by many of the prophets.....Jesus word is the Plum Line......)
Zech 3:7......Thus saith the Lord of Hosts;
If thou wilt keep My Charge, then thou shalt also....Judge My House,
and shalt also keep My Courts, and I will give thee places to Walk among these that stand by......
8......Hear Now.....O Joshua the high preist....thou and thy fellows that sit before thee:
for they are men Wondered at:
for, Behold, I will bring forth My Servant.....THE BRANCH. (Jesus)
9.....For behold the Stone......that I have laid before Joshua;
upon one Stone shall be Seven Eyes...behold I will engrave the graving thereof...saith the Lord of Hosts, and I will remove the Iniquity of that land in one day.....
Jesus is the corner stone to the House....or Temple
The Jews stumbled at that stone.....They rejected the stone....corner of the building....House or Temple....
I Peter 2:6.....Wherefore also it is contained in the Scripture....
Behold, I lay in Sion a Chief Corner Stone...Elect, Precious:
and He that believeth on Him shall not be confounded...
7.....Unto you therefore which believe....HE IS PRECIOUS.....But unto them which be disobedient.....The Stone which the builders disallowed....the same is made the Head of the Corner....
8.....AND A STONE OF STUMBLING.....AND A ROCK of Offence....Even to them which stumble......At the Word....being disobedient:
whereunto....also they were appointed.....
Jesus...The Branch
Zech. 6:12.......And speak unto him...saying
Thus speaketh the Lord of Hosts, saying...
Behold...The Man whose Name is the Branch:
and He shall Grow up out of His Place, and He Shall....
BUILD THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD.......
13.......Even He.....Shall Build the Temple of the Lord;
and He shall be the Glory, and Shall Sit and rule upon His Throne;
and He shall be A Priest Upon His Throne:
and the Counsel of Peace shall be Between them Both.....
back to Zech. 3:9......For behold the Stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one Stone shall be Seven Eyes:
4:10.....For who hath despised the day of small things?
for they shall rejoice, and shall see the Plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those SEVEN;
THEY ARE THE EYES OF THE LORD.....Which run to and fro through the whole earth.....
We are the Spiritual eyes and ears of the Lord......Jesus said....I give you my name.....and what ever you ask....Believing and not doubt...you shall have....What you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.....and what ever you loose on earth...shall be loose in heaven.....Jesus has given the Church Power in His Name.....The seven eyes....or the seven Candlestick....The Plummet in our hand is the Living Word of God.....Straight and Narrow.......
We....The Church.....are the body of Christ......
I Corin.6:19.......WHAT? Know ye Not that Your Body is the TEMPLE....OF THE HOLY GHOST.......WHICH is in you.....Which ye have of God....and Ye are Not Your Own?
20......For Ye are bought with a Price: therefore Glorify God in Your Body.....and in Your Spirit....Which are God's....
I Cor. 3:16.......Know Ye Not....that ye are the TEMPLE OF GOD......AND that the Spirit of God Dwelleth in you?
17......If Any Man....Defile the TEMPLE of God......Him shall God Destroy; for the Temple of God is Holy.....WHICH TEMPLE YE ARE......
It is the Devil's Plan.....to corrupt the Temple of God.....by deceving the believer to Believe Lies........False Teachings.......and False Doctrine....And a False Christ........?
This is how.....Satan sitteth in the Temple of God.....in the bodies of the believes......leading them astray by a False Gospel......that has no Power....Teaching the Holy Spirit is not for today.....denying the very Power of God.....that lives in the Believers.....Deceving if possible the very elect.......
We are the Temple of God....
before you could go into the temple......you went to the altar..Jesus the sacrifice Lamb...to the blood sacrifice....then the water of washing...today water Baptism....then to the Holy Place....the bread...which is the body of Christ...without sin....then candlestick...the light and the Living word....and the incense...or Pray and Praise......We now are the Temple where God Lives.........in our bodies.....We are the Body of Christ.....We Now are the Light of the World.....We are His Witnesses......
Satan's plan is to sit in the temple of God.....Shewing Himself that He is god..........
7.....For the Mystery of Iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.....
this is the falling away from the truth...church......
9.....Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and sign and lying wonders,
10....And with All Deceivableness of Unrighteousness in them that Perish:
Because.....They Received Not the Love of the Truth....that they might be saved......
11.....And for this cause God shall send them STRONG DELUSION...THAT they should believe a lie:
12.....That they All Might be ******....Who believed Not the Truth....But have Pleassure in Unrighteousness.......
We are the Temple of God.....The Light of the World......His Witnesses....
bb
_________________
Dear Bob......
Zechariah was a prophet during the rebuilding of the temple......
We must understand.......that when they rebuilt the temple......It was nothing Compared to Solomon's Temple....
Haggi wrote.....
Haggai 2:3.....Who is left Among you that saw this house in her first Glory?
and How do ye see it now?
it is not in your eyes in comparison of it as NOTHING?
4.....Yet NOW Be strong, O Zerubbabel, saith the Lord; and be Strong, O Joshua, son of Josedech...the High Priest;
and be st rong....All Ye People of the Land, saith the Lord, and Work:
for I Am With You, saith the Lord of Hosts.....
notice this....
5......According to the Word that I COVENANTED with you when Ye Came out of Egypt......SO MY SPIRIT.....REMAINETH AMONG YOU: FEAR YE NOT.
6.....For thus saith the Lord of Hosts;
Yet once, it is a Little While, and I will Shake the heavens, and the Earth, and the Sea....and the Dry Land;
7.....And I will shake All Nations.....and the Desire of ALL Nations shall come:
and I will FILL THIS HOUSE WITH GLORY....Saith the Lord of Hosts.....
9......THE GLORY OF THIS LATTER HOUSE......SHALL BE GREATER THAN OF THE FORMER.....saith the Lord of Hosts:
and in this Place will I Give Peace, saith the Lord of Hosts....
WHAT HOUSE???
The Church.....
Jesus came to Build the Temple.......We...the Church are the temple...the House of God...OUR BODIES
Hebrews 3:6......BUT CHRIST....AS A SON OVER HIS OWN HOUSE:
WHOSE HOUSE ARE WE.......IF WE HOLD FAST THE CONFIDENCE AND THE REJOICING OF THE HOPE FIRM UNTO THE END.......
God spoke this through an angel to Zerubbabel....
In Zec. 4:6.......Then he answered and spake unto me.....Saying....
THIS IS THE WORD OF THE LORD UNTO ZERUBBABEL.....saying
NOT BY MIGHT.....NOR BY POWER....BUT BY MY SPIRIT, SAITH THE LORD OF HOSTS.....
The Spiritual House of God...The Church.....Is Built by the Holy Spirit.....Not by man.....or satan...
The True Believers are called by God's Spirit.....
The Holy Spirit deals with our spirit and if we hear and obey we come to God and we are born again......Born of the Spirit and Water
The house of God is a Spiritual House.......whose house are We.....
We are Candlestsicks....the Light of the World...
We are His Witnesses.....We bare witness to Jesus as the only Begotten Son of God......we are the Latter House....
Haggai 2:9........The Glory of this Latter House....Shall be Grater than of the Former, saith the Lord of Hosts: and in this place will I give Peace, saith the Lord of Hosts......
notice.....THE GLORY OF THIS LATTER HOUSE IS GREATER THEN SOLOMANS TEMPLE.....
14.......Then Said he....These are the Two Anointed Ones....that stand by the Lord of the Whole Earth.....
Jesus said....
John 4:21......Jesus saith unto her.....Woman believe Me....The Hour cometh, when ye shall Neither in this Mountain,
NOR YET AT JERUSALEM WORSHIP THE FATHER......
22.....Ye Worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.......(Jesus was the Jew)
23......BUT THE HOUR COMETH......AND NOW IS.......When the TRUE WORSHIPPERS........shall Worship the Father...IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.....for the Father SEEKeth Such to Worship Him.....
24.....GOD IS A SPIRIT.......AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM......MUST..MUST WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH......
Jesus said....If it were possible even the very elect would be deceived.....another place......deceving and being deceived.....
I Hunger for Truth.......Jesus said......My Word is Truth......I believe the written word....and what it says.....Not what some man says it says....
Jesus said.....He has given us the Holy Spirit....the spirit of Truth....and I we seek Him.....we will find Him.....and he will lead us and Guide us into all truth......We must Seek Truth and walk in it......
All the Prophets.....Testify of Jesus.....the prophets and the Law......I believe this is what the Word says......
I believe the He.....is Jesus the Messigh....I believe this teaching gets our eyes off of the truth.....we look for a temple.....that will never be built....
The two witnesses.....testify to Truth.....God is a Righteous Judge...and before World Judgement....He gives a Witness to all the World....He is Just.....not willing that any perish......This is in the midst of the Week...he will cause the Sacrifice to Cease......and then Pours out World Judgment....
bb
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 459
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: Temple Watch.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The third temple?
First we have the Tabernacle......in the wilderness
Then Solomon's Temple
Then the rebuilding of the Temple after the destruction....
Then Heriod's temple...
This is the Prophecies about the Temple.....
Zech. 1:16......Therefore thus saith the Lord;
I Am Returned to Jerusalem with Mercies:
My House shall be built in it, Saith the Lord of Hosts...
And a Line Shall be Stretched Forth upon Jerusalem....
(Jesus said.......Straight and Narrow is the Way....and few be that find it....
The Plumline fortold by many of the prophets.....Jesus word is the Plum Line......)
Zech 3:7......Thus saith the Lord of Hosts;
If thou wilt keep My Charge, then thou shalt also....Judge My House,
and shalt also keep My Courts, and I will give thee places to Walk among these that stand by......
8......Hear Now.....O Joshua the high preist....thou and thy fellows that sit before thee:
for they are men Wondered at:
for, Behold, I will bring forth My Servant.....THE BRANCH. (Jesus)
9.....For behold the Stone......that I have laid before Joshua;
upon one Stone shall be Seven Eyes...behold I will engrave the graving thereof...saith the Lord of Hosts, and I will remove the Iniquity of that land in one day.....
Jesus is the corner stone to the House....or Temple
The Jews stumbled at that stone.....They rejected the stone....corner of the building....House or Temple....
I Peter 2:6.....Wherefore also it is contained in the Scripture....
Behold, I lay in Sion a Chief Corner Stone...Elect, Precious:
and He that believeth on Him shall not be confounded...
7.....Unto you therefore which believe....HE IS PRECIOUS.....But unto them which be disobedient.....The Stone which the builders disallowed....the same is made the Head of the Corner....
8.....AND A STONE OF STUMBLING.....AND A ROCK of Offence....Even to them which stumble......At the Word....being disobedient:
whereunto....also they were appointed.....
Jesus...The Branch
Zech. 6:12.......And speak unto him...saying
Thus speaketh the Lord of Hosts, saying...
Behold...The Man whose Name is the Branch:
and He shall Grow up out of His Place, and He Shall....
BUILD THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD.......
13.......Even He.....Shall Build the Temple of the Lord;
and He shall be the Glory, and Shall Sit and rule upon His Throne;
and He shall be A Priest Upon His Throne:
and the Counsel of Peace shall be Between them Both.....
back to Zech. 3:9......For behold the Stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one Stone shall be Seven Eyes:
4:10.....For who hath despised the day of small things?
for they shall rejoice, and shall see the Plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those SEVEN;
THEY ARE THE EYES OF THE LORD.....Which run to and fro through the whole earth.....
We are the Spiritual eyes and ears of the Lord......Jesus said....I give you my name.....and what ever you ask....Believing and not doubt...you shall have....What you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.....and what ever you loose on earth...shall be loose in heaven.....Jesus has given the Church Power in His Name.....The seven eyes....or the seven Candlestick....The Plummet in our hand is the Living Word of God.....Straight and Narrow.......
We....The Church.....are the body of Christ......
I Corin.6:19.......WHAT? Know ye Not that Your Body is the TEMPLE....OF THE HOLY GHOST.......WHICH is in you.....Which ye have of God....and Ye are Not Your Own?
20......For Ye are bought with a Price: therefore Glorify God in Your Body.....and in Your Spirit....Which are God's....
I Cor. 3:16.......Know Ye Not....that ye are the TEMPLE OF GOD......AND that the Spirit of God Dwelleth in you?
17......If Any Man....Defile the TEMPLE of God......Him shall God Destroy; for the Temple of God is Holy.....WHICH TEMPLE YE ARE......
It is the Devil's Plan.....to corrupt the Temple of God.....by deceving the believer to Believe Lies........False Teachings.......and False Doctrine....And a False Christ........?
This is how.....Satan sitteth in the Temple of God.....in the bodies of the believes......leading them astray by a False Gospel......that has no Power....Teaching the Holy Spirit is not for today.....denying the very Power of God.....that lives in the Believers.....Deceving if possible the very elect.......
We are the Temple of God....
before you could go into the temple......you went to the altar..Jesus the sacrifice Lamb...to the blood sacrifice....then the water of washing...today water Baptism....then to the Holy Place....the bread...which is the body of Christ...without sin....then candlestick...the light and the Living word....and the incense...or Pray and Praise......We now are the Temple where God Lives.........in our bodies.....We are the Body of Christ.....We Now are the Light of the World.....We are His Witnesses......
Satan's plan is to sit in the temple of God.....Shewing Himself that He is god..........
7.....For the Mystery of Iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.....
this is the falling away from the truth...church......
9.....Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and sign and lying wonders,
10....And with All Deceivableness of Unrighteousness in them that Perish:
Because.....They Received Not the Love of the Truth....that they might be saved......
11.....And for this cause God shall send them STRONG DELUSION...THAT they should believe a lie:
12.....That they All Might be ******....Who believed Not the Truth....But have Pleassure in Unrighteousness.......
We are the Temple of God.....The Light of the World......His Witnesses....
bb
_________________
Dear Bob......
Zechariah was a prophet during the rebuilding of the temple......
We must understand.......that when they rebuilt the temple......It was nothing Compared to Solomon's Temple....
Haggi wrote.....
Haggai 2:3.....Who is left Among you that saw this house in her first Glory?
and How do ye see it now?
it is not in your eyes in comparison of it as NOTHING?
4.....Yet NOW Be strong, O Zerubbabel, saith the Lord; and be Strong, O Joshua, son of Josedech...the High Priest;
and be st rong....All Ye People of the Land, saith the Lord, and Work:
for I Am With You, saith the Lord of Hosts.....
notice this....
5......According to the Word that I COVENANTED with you when Ye Came out of Egypt......SO MY SPIRIT.....REMAINETH AMONG YOU: FEAR YE NOT.
6.....For thus saith the Lord of Hosts;
Yet once, it is a Little While, and I will Shake the heavens, and the Earth, and the Sea....and the Dry Land;
7.....And I will shake All Nations.....and the Desire of ALL Nations shall come:
and I will FILL THIS HOUSE WITH GLORY....Saith the Lord of Hosts.....
9......THE GLORY OF THIS LATTER HOUSE......SHALL BE GREATER THAN OF THE FORMER.....saith the Lord of Hosts:
and in this Place will I Give Peace, saith the Lord of Hosts....
WHAT HOUSE???
The Church.....
Jesus came to Build the Temple.......We...the Church are the temple...the House of God...OUR BODIES
Hebrews 3:6......BUT CHRIST....AS A SON OVER HIS OWN HOUSE:
WHOSE HOUSE ARE WE.......IF WE HOLD FAST THE CONFIDENCE AND THE REJOICING OF THE HOPE FIRM UNTO THE END.......
God spoke this through an angel to Zerubbabel....
In Zec. 4:6.......Then he answered and spake unto me.....Saying....
THIS IS THE WORD OF THE LORD UNTO ZERUBBABEL.....saying
NOT BY MIGHT.....NOR BY POWER....BUT BY MY SPIRIT, SAITH THE LORD OF HOSTS.....
The Spiritual House of God...The Church.....Is Built by the Holy Spirit.....Not by man.....or satan...
The True Believers are called by God's Spirit.....
The Holy Spirit deals with our spirit and if we hear and obey we come to God and we are born again......Born of the Spirit and Water
The house of God is a Spiritual House.......whose house are We.....
We are Candlestsicks....the Light of the World...
We are His Witnesses.....We bare witness to Jesus as the only Begotten Son of God......we are the Latter House....
Haggai 2:9........The Glory of this Latter House....Shall be Grater than of the Former, saith the Lord of Hosts: and in this place will I give Peace, saith the Lord of Hosts......
notice.....THE GLORY OF THIS LATTER HOUSE IS GREATER THEN SOLOMANS TEMPLE.....
14.......Then Said he....These are the Two Anointed Ones....that stand by the Lord of the Whole Earth.....
Jesus said....
John 4:21......Jesus saith unto her.....Woman believe Me....The Hour cometh, when ye shall Neither in this Mountain,
NOR YET AT JERUSALEM WORSHIP THE FATHER......
22.....Ye Worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.......(Jesus was the Jew)
23......BUT THE HOUR COMETH......AND NOW IS.......When the TRUE WORSHIPPERS........shall Worship the Father...IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.....for the Father SEEKeth Such to Worship Him.....
24.....GOD IS A SPIRIT.......AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM......MUST..MUST WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH......
Jesus said....If it were possible even the very elect would be deceived.....another place......deceving and being deceived.....
I Hunger for Truth.......Jesus said......My Word is Truth......I believe the written word....and what it says.....Not what some man says it says....
Jesus said.....He has given us the Holy Spirit....the spirit of Truth....and I we seek Him.....we will find Him.....and he will lead us and Guide us into all truth......We must Seek Truth and walk in it......
All the Prophets.....Testify of Jesus.....the prophets and the Law......I believe this is what the Word says......
I believe the He.....is Jesus the Messigh....I believe this teaching gets our eyes off of the truth.....we look for a temple.....that will never be built....
The two witnesses.....testify to Truth.....God is a Righteous Judge...and before World Judgement....He gives a Witness to all the World....He is Just.....not willing that any perish......This is in the midst of the Week...he will cause the Sacrifice to Cease......and then Pours out World Judgment....
bb
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
by savedbygrace on Fri May 04, 2007 11:01 am
Hello Mrs B,
Grace to you in Jesus,
did you happen to see the opening message at the prophecy conference at http://www.maranathachapel.org/
You should have seen the message by Randall Price titled 'The coming temple'. It was excellent, and has some very good information about the history and the future prophecies concerning the temple. It will be available in the archives section in a day or two. I hope you will be compelled to watch it. I enjoyed it very much and I think you will find it very informative.
blessings,
Jake
Grace to you in Jesus,
did you happen to see the opening message at the prophecy conference at http://www.maranathachapel.org/
You should have seen the message by Randall Price titled 'The coming temple'. It was excellent, and has some very good information about the history and the future prophecies concerning the temple. It will be available in the archives section in a day or two. I hope you will be compelled to watch it. I enjoyed it very much and I think you will find it very informative.
blessings,
Jake
You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But not a hair of your head shall be lost. By your patience possess your souls. Luke 21:16-19
-
savedbygrace - Supporting Member
- Posts: 2954
- Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:35 am
- Location: San Diego, CA
by Mrs. B on Fri May 04, 2007 12:55 pm
Who do you believe is being spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24:15?
Who do you believe Paul is referring to in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4?
How do you interpret Revelation 11:1-3?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matt 24:15....
When Ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the Holy PLace...(whoso readeth, let him understand:)
See Daniel 11:45......And he (a/c) shall plant the tabernacle of his palace between the seas in THE GLORIOUS HOLY MOUNTAIN; Yet he shall come to His end, and none shall Help Him......
12:1...And at that time shall Michael stand up...the Great Prince which standeth for the Children of thy People:
and at that time thy people shall be delivered...every one that shall be found written in the book;
(That means the Christian our Name is Written in the Lambs Book of Life.)
he the a/c shall plant the tabernacle of his palace.......
See Isaiah 15:12....How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13.....For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend Into Heaven,
I will exalt My Throne Above the Stars of God:
I will sit also Upon the Mount of the Congregation, in the sides of the North:
14.....I Will Ascend above the heights of the Clouds; I will be LIKE THE MOST HIGH....
15....YET THOU SHALL BE BROUGHT DOWN TO HELLL, TO THE SIDES OF THE PIT....
24......The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass: and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
25......That I will Break the ASSYRIAN....IN My Land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them....and his burden depart from all their shoulders....
26.....This is the Purpose that is Purposed upon the Whole Earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nation.
27....For the Lord of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it?
And his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?
This is always Satan's plan.....to take over God's Throne....so he does it by trying to enter into the Church....the House of God.....The Temple of God......by deceiving.....saying he is Christ....
When you see this.......Know that the Desturction is neigh....First he has
to deceive the people....so when he comes on the seen the people are prepared to receive him....
Daniel 8:23.....And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the Transgressors are come to the full.....A King of Fierce Countenance, and Understanding Dark Sentences, shall stand up......
24.....And His Power shall be Mighty, but not by his own power:
and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people....
25.....And through His Policy...also he shall cause Craft to Prosper in his hand; and he shall Magnify Himself in His heart, and by...PEACE....SHALL DESTROY MANY: He shall also Stand Up Against the Prince of Princes; (Jesus) But he shall be Broken without Hand.....
Daniel 11:30.....For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return and have INDIGNATION AGAINST THE HOLY COVENANT.....:
so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence...With them that forsake the Holy Covenant......
he will have intelligence with them that forsake the Holy Covenant....
them that have fallen away from the truth.....fallen away from Jesus....they have forsake the Holy Covenant......
Jesus has made a New Covenant with the born again Believer....but the a/c has intelligence with the sons of wickedness.....sons of wrath....or children of the devil.....
31......And arms shall stand on his part.......
they shall pollute the Sanctuary of Strength, and shall take away the Daily Sacrifice, and they shall place the Abomination that maketh desolate........
the Sanctuary of Strength......he corrups the fallen away believer....
Our relationship with Jesus is our Strength....he a/c pollute the Sanctuary....by leading us away from truth....and take away the Daily Sacrifice.......and they shall place the Abomination that maketh desolate...
32.....And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall be corupt by Flatteries:
But the People that do know their God shall be Strong, and do exploits.
Hebrews 6: 4-6
For it is impossible for those know God......When we sin...when we fall away to be renewed again unto repentance: seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh....and put him to an open shame......the Daily Sacrifice is taken away........
they fall away from grace.....
33.....And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: Yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity and by spoil, many days.....
34.....Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: But many shall Cleave to Them with flatteries...
35.....And some of them of Understanding shall fall....to Try Them, and to Purge, and to Make them White, Even to the Time of the End....
Because it is yet for a Time appoionted......
36.....And the king (a/c) shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall SPEAK MARVELLOUS things against the God of gods......
And shall Prosper Till the Indignation be Accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done......
45......And he shall plant the Tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the Glorious Holy Mountain; Yet he shall come to His end...and none shall help......
And at this time shall Michael Stand up....
Rev. 12:6......And the women fled....into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared of God....that they should feed her 1260 days....
7......And there was War in Heaven......MICHAEL AND HIS ANGELS FOUGHT AGAINST THE DRAGON AND THE DRAGON FOUGHT AND HIS ANGELS........
8......And Prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven...
9.......And the Great Dragon was cast out....that old serpent called the Devil, and Satan, Which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.....
10.....And I heard a loud voice saying in Heaven, Now is come Salvation, and Strength, and the Kingdom of Our God......and the Power of His Christ:
for the accuser of Our Brethren is Cast Down, which accused them before our God day and Night.....
11......AND THEY OVERCAME HIM BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB, AND BY THE WORD OF THEIR TESTIMONY; AND THEY LOVED NOT THEIR LIVES UNTO THE DEATH..........
Jesus said......For then shall be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the Beginning of the World to this Time, no nor ever shall be.....
But he that shall endure unto the end...the same shall be saved.....
bb
Who do you believe Paul is referring to in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4?
How do you interpret Revelation 11:1-3?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matt 24:15....
When Ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the Holy PLace...(whoso readeth, let him understand:)
See Daniel 11:45......And he (a/c) shall plant the tabernacle of his palace between the seas in THE GLORIOUS HOLY MOUNTAIN; Yet he shall come to His end, and none shall Help Him......
12:1...And at that time shall Michael stand up...the Great Prince which standeth for the Children of thy People:
and at that time thy people shall be delivered...every one that shall be found written in the book;
(That means the Christian our Name is Written in the Lambs Book of Life.)
he the a/c shall plant the tabernacle of his palace.......
See Isaiah 15:12....How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13.....For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend Into Heaven,
I will exalt My Throne Above the Stars of God:
I will sit also Upon the Mount of the Congregation, in the sides of the North:
14.....I Will Ascend above the heights of the Clouds; I will be LIKE THE MOST HIGH....
15....YET THOU SHALL BE BROUGHT DOWN TO HELLL, TO THE SIDES OF THE PIT....
24......The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass: and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
25......That I will Break the ASSYRIAN....IN My Land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them....and his burden depart from all their shoulders....
26.....This is the Purpose that is Purposed upon the Whole Earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nation.
27....For the Lord of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it?
And his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?
This is always Satan's plan.....to take over God's Throne....so he does it by trying to enter into the Church....the House of God.....The Temple of God......by deceiving.....saying he is Christ....
When you see this.......Know that the Desturction is neigh....First he has
to deceive the people....so when he comes on the seen the people are prepared to receive him....
Daniel 8:23.....And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the Transgressors are come to the full.....A King of Fierce Countenance, and Understanding Dark Sentences, shall stand up......
24.....And His Power shall be Mighty, but not by his own power:
and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people....
25.....And through His Policy...also he shall cause Craft to Prosper in his hand; and he shall Magnify Himself in His heart, and by...PEACE....SHALL DESTROY MANY: He shall also Stand Up Against the Prince of Princes; (Jesus) But he shall be Broken without Hand.....
Daniel 11:30.....For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return and have INDIGNATION AGAINST THE HOLY COVENANT.....:
so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence...With them that forsake the Holy Covenant......
he will have intelligence with them that forsake the Holy Covenant....
them that have fallen away from the truth.....fallen away from Jesus....they have forsake the Holy Covenant......
Jesus has made a New Covenant with the born again Believer....but the a/c has intelligence with the sons of wickedness.....sons of wrath....or children of the devil.....
31......And arms shall stand on his part.......
they shall pollute the Sanctuary of Strength, and shall take away the Daily Sacrifice, and they shall place the Abomination that maketh desolate........
the Sanctuary of Strength......he corrups the fallen away believer....
Our relationship with Jesus is our Strength....he a/c pollute the Sanctuary....by leading us away from truth....and take away the Daily Sacrifice.......and they shall place the Abomination that maketh desolate...
32.....And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall be corupt by Flatteries:
But the People that do know their God shall be Strong, and do exploits.
Hebrews 6: 4-6
For it is impossible for those know God......When we sin...when we fall away to be renewed again unto repentance: seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh....and put him to an open shame......the Daily Sacrifice is taken away........
they fall away from grace.....
33.....And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: Yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity and by spoil, many days.....
34.....Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: But many shall Cleave to Them with flatteries...
35.....And some of them of Understanding shall fall....to Try Them, and to Purge, and to Make them White, Even to the Time of the End....
Because it is yet for a Time appoionted......
36.....And the king (a/c) shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall SPEAK MARVELLOUS things against the God of gods......
And shall Prosper Till the Indignation be Accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done......
45......And he shall plant the Tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the Glorious Holy Mountain; Yet he shall come to His end...and none shall help......
And at this time shall Michael Stand up....
Rev. 12:6......And the women fled....into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared of God....that they should feed her 1260 days....
7......And there was War in Heaven......MICHAEL AND HIS ANGELS FOUGHT AGAINST THE DRAGON AND THE DRAGON FOUGHT AND HIS ANGELS........
8......And Prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven...
9.......And the Great Dragon was cast out....that old serpent called the Devil, and Satan, Which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.....
10.....And I heard a loud voice saying in Heaven, Now is come Salvation, and Strength, and the Kingdom of Our God......and the Power of His Christ:
for the accuser of Our Brethren is Cast Down, which accused them before our God day and Night.....
11......AND THEY OVERCAME HIM BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB, AND BY THE WORD OF THEIR TESTIMONY; AND THEY LOVED NOT THEIR LIVES UNTO THE DEATH..........
Jesus said......For then shall be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the Beginning of the World to this Time, no nor ever shall be.....
But he that shall endure unto the end...the same shall be saved.....
bb
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
by David Butterfield on Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:57 am
Technically, the temple will only have to be built by the time the AOD happens, but I think it's likely that they'll build it sooner. They just have to start sacrifices by (I think) September 14th of this year, which is the last day of Rosh Hashanah, and is 2300 days(Dan. 8:13-14) from the end of the ENP on December 31st, 2013.
Some people have said the temple will be rebuilt after Israel turns back to God. The only way to God is through Jesus Christ, and this will not happen for Israel until the AOD itself, after the temple is built. My personal opionion is that there is only one Gog/Magog war, and that it takes place where Revelation places it, at the end of the millenial kingdom(Rev, 20:7-8).
I believe the idea of two Gog/Magogs is a false doctrine like pre-trib, designed to confuse people about what is really happening. Lets say a war that could be labeled Gog/Magog breaks out(if one ignores a few things in Ezekiel 38-39 that show that it cannot happen in this time period), and then Israel makes it out OK, and rebuilds a temple. Then, the antichrist and false prophet take the stage and claim Godhood for Israel and the rest of the world. According to our prophecies, they will say, the messiah has returned, and Israel is back with the Lord, and all is well. Especially for the pre-tribbers who think the 70th week hasn't started yet, this is going to be incredibly difficult to explain. The Gog/Magog war does not fit into this time period...
Some people have said the temple will be rebuilt after Israel turns back to God. The only way to God is through Jesus Christ, and this will not happen for Israel until the AOD itself, after the temple is built. My personal opionion is that there is only one Gog/Magog war, and that it takes place where Revelation places it, at the end of the millenial kingdom(Rev, 20:7-8).
I believe the idea of two Gog/Magogs is a false doctrine like pre-trib, designed to confuse people about what is really happening. Lets say a war that could be labeled Gog/Magog breaks out(if one ignores a few things in Ezekiel 38-39 that show that it cannot happen in this time period), and then Israel makes it out OK, and rebuilds a temple. Then, the antichrist and false prophet take the stage and claim Godhood for Israel and the rest of the world. According to our prophecies, they will say, the messiah has returned, and Israel is back with the Lord, and all is well. Especially for the pre-tribbers who think the 70th week hasn't started yet, this is going to be incredibly difficult to explain. The Gog/Magog war does not fit into this time period...
Luke 21:31-32 - So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
-
David Butterfield - Posts: 114
- Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:02 pm
- Location: Citrus Heights, California
by Mrs. B on Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:19 pm
David......I know what you are saying.....
But......7 years to cleanse the land.....and seven months to bury the dead......???
I Believe this Battle is before Jesus comes back.....
And this is what causes the nations to come together and say Peace at any cost......and the world is deceived by the a/c......and the New World order is set up........It is the Tribulation Period......
Jesus said.....immediately after the Tribulation of those Days.....
Then shall we see the Son of God...coming.....
bb
But......7 years to cleanse the land.....and seven months to bury the dead......???
I Believe this Battle is before Jesus comes back.....
And this is what causes the nations to come together and say Peace at any cost......and the world is deceived by the a/c......and the New World order is set up........It is the Tribulation Period......
Jesus said.....immediately after the Tribulation of those Days.....
Then shall we see the Son of God...coming.....
bb
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
by Gale on Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:05 am
Hello,
I read somewhere, I do not remember, I have been reading so much, but anyhow I read, that the blueprints of the temple are finished and there are plans to begin building the Temple next year. Have any of you ran across this news, and remember where to locate it?
When the Peace Treaty is confirmed, arrangements will have been made to satisfy both parties, temporarily:
Mideast peace treaty possible this month, says expert
By Deena Douara
First Published 7/4/2007
CAIRO: A meeting between the Quartet, the Palestinian Authority, and Israeli leaders will take place in Egypt mid-July, announced EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana.
"Toward the middle of the month, we will recuperate this initiative," he said.
Political analyst from the Al Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies Emad Gad told The Daily Star Egypt that he believed the countries were very close to negotiating a peace treaty delineating a two-state solution "very close" to what former PM Arafat was said to have been offered at the 2000 Camp David meeting.
He believes that " 'moderate' Palestinians are ready to sign a peace treaty with Israel."
While the Quartet meeting was postponed from late June due to high tensions within the Palestinian territories, Gad explains that the situation is very different now.
"It is looking positive in the West Bank," he says, where Israel has returned tax revenues to the Palestinian Authority and the EU has resumed relations with the territory. Abbas is also supported by the US, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan.
Abbas is actually stronger than before, explains Gad, as he and his Fatah party no longer need to take approval or agreement from Hamas, as was the case under their unity government.
"Hamas is now controlling Gaza only."
The meeting will also represent former British PM Tony Blair's first test as Middle East envoy for the Quartet — composed of the European Union, Russia, the United Nations and the United States.
Despite being generally considered pro-Israel, Abbas had welcomed Blair as the new representative, saying the Arabs were ready to deal with Blair as mideast negotiator.
"Blair can play a positive role in convincing the Palestinians and Israelis to negotiate," says Gad. He explains that Blair's close ties to US President Bush put him in an advantageous position, as the US is in a position to pressure the Israelis to resume negotiations.[/quote]
Buy the truth at any price but sell it not for all the gold and silver on earth - Horatius Bonar
I pray that patriotism and love "for our countries", never keeps us from the Revelation of God!
I pray that patriotism and love "for our countries", never keeps us from the Revelation of God!
- Gale
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:52 pm
- Location: Ms
by Abiding in His Word on Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:45 am
The meeting will also represent former British PM Tony Blair's first test as Middle East envoy for the Quartet — composed of the European Union, Russia, the United Nations and the United States.
"Blair can play a positive role in convincing the Palestinians and Israelis to negotiate," says Gad. He explains that Blair's close ties to US President Bush put him in an advantageous position, as the US is in a position to pressure the Israelis to resume negotiations.
BTW,
to the board, Gale!-
Abiding in His Word - SITE ADMIN
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- Location: SW Florida
by savedbygrace on Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:59 am
Gale! Nice to see your post!You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But not a hair of your head shall be lost. By your patience possess your souls. Luke 21:16-19
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savedbygrace - Supporting Member
- Posts: 2954
- Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:35 am
- Location: San Diego, CA
by Triton57 on Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:11 am
Welcome Gale!!! Thanks for the news link!
Phillip
2 Timothy 4:1-4
“About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition.” - Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
2 Timothy 4:1-4
“About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition.” - Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
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Triton57 - Posts: 1787
- Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:06 pm
- Location: Burien, WA
by Gale on Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:40 pm
Thanks for all the welcomes friends, I appreciate your hospitality at this board! We sure do live in extremely prophetic times, when we are able to see Bible prophecy unfold before our very eyes and eye witness the Beast's kingdom coming together for the final days. As the days grow darker, our faith will grow stronger as we draw close to Yah. He is able to keep us and bring us out of whatever may come. He is our confidence, and our prize!
Keep standing! We shall be home soon!
Buy the truth at any price but sell it not for all the gold and silver on earth - Horatius Bonar
I pray that patriotism and love "for our countries", never keeps us from the Revelation of God!
I pray that patriotism and love "for our countries", never keeps us from the Revelation of God!
- Gale
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:52 pm
- Location: Ms
by Gale on Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:56 pm
Hello Sherree!!
Rabbi warns against going to Temple Mount
By Nadav Shragai
"Next year we will all go up freely to the Temple, which will be built, with the ashes of the red heifer, without disagreement and without questions."
Former chief rabbi Avraham Shapira, head of Mercaz Harav yeshiva, said yesterday that Jews are prohibited from going to the Temple Mount. Shapira's statement came after a pamphlet issued by religious-Zionist rabbis calling on people to go to the Temple Mount, and doing so themselves earlier this week in what has been called a historical change in their stand.
Shapira (along with Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu) is considered a leading figure in the religious-Zionist movement. He made the statements at the traditional rally in honor of Jerusalem Day at the yeshiva. Rabbi Dov Lior, the head of the West Bank rabbinic committee and the chief rabbi of Kiryat Arba, who was among those who visited the Temple Mount with the group this week, was seated next to him.
Rabbi Zalman Melamed, the head of the Beit El Yeshiva and a leader among West Bank rabbis, said, "Next year we will all go up freely to the Temple, which will be built, with the ashes of the red heifer, without disagreement and without questions."
Until a few years ago, most rabbis prohibited Jews from going to the Temple Mount because no one knows for sure the exact location of the Holy of Holies, and the concern that today's Jews, considered "impure" by Jewish law, would enter prohibited zones.
However, as a result of the strengthening Palestinian presence on the Mount, religious-Zionist rabbis have been pressured in recent years to permit visits to some parts of it. The committee of West Bank rabbis allowed ascent to the Mount a few years ago.
[http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/860476.html]
Buy the truth at any price but sell it not for all the gold and silver on earth - Horatius Bonar
I pray that patriotism and love "for our countries", never keeps us from the Revelation of God!
I pray that patriotism and love "for our countries", never keeps us from the Revelation of God!
- Gale
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:52 pm
- Location: Ms
by Chewy on Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:17 pm
With all due respect, the A/C will sit in a literal temple. God is not done with the Jew yet, nor is He planning on making this an all-spiritual world. There is a spiritual temple of God (His saints), there is a physical temple (coming soon to a mount near you!), and there will be a heavenly temple (if you're good, you might get to be a pillar in it!). You have to keep them separated! The result of not doing so is to erroneously spiritualize the anti-christ who is to sit in it, too. He is real, and he has a real fanny that he's really going to sit on a real seat in the real temple. You see, your reasoning spiritualizes the A/C and, well, gives him omnipresent qualities, which only God has. The AOD was physical, and we are told to watch for it again. You have poetically interpreted prophecy, but in so doing, you've used the New Testament to erase/spiritualize some of the best parts of the Old.
Also, whose heart becomes the all-important temple that Christ told us to observe for the AOD? Yours? Mine? What if 1/2 the saints are right with God and 1/2 are deceived by Satan? Is only one deceived heart enough for the AOD to be in your version of the temple? Why not?
And, besides, you have confused the church visible with the Church real. The real Church is sealed with the Holy Spirit. That's why Paul could say without a doubt that "Ye ARE the temple of God." I can defile the temple through prostitution, etc, but I cannot put a false God in the temple. My mercy seat, as it were, has been cleansed for all time!!!! I am sealed. And the visible church has been a mixed multitude in all ages.
Hope that makes sense.
Also, whose heart becomes the all-important temple that Christ told us to observe for the AOD? Yours? Mine? What if 1/2 the saints are right with God and 1/2 are deceived by Satan? Is only one deceived heart enough for the AOD to be in your version of the temple? Why not?
And, besides, you have confused the church visible with the Church real. The real Church is sealed with the Holy Spirit. That's why Paul could say without a doubt that "Ye ARE the temple of God." I can defile the temple through prostitution, etc, but I cannot put a false God in the temple. My mercy seat, as it were, has been cleansed for all time!!!! I am sealed. And the visible church has been a mixed multitude in all ages.
Hope that makes sense.
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Chewy - Posts: 207
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:48 am
by Mrs. B on Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:22 pm
Chewy....
Thank you for your response........You did very well......
I do believe the a/c will be a real person.....and will say all the right things.......He will be very religious and cause many to believe Him...because he is the false light.......and will deceive if it were possible the very elect.....
The Kingdom of God on the Earth today is a Spiritual Kingdom....
Jesus said......the Kingdom comes not with Observation.....the Kingdom of God is with in you......the believer
Jesus also taught the wheat and the tares......which grow up together...
John wrote
I John 2:19....Little children, it is the last time:
and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come,
even now are there many antichrists;
whereby we know that it is the last time.......
there were a/c even in John's time
but...
20....But ye have An Unction from the Holy One, and ye know all Things...
The Holy One is the Holy Spirit that..... He Jesus sent back to us the Believer...... and Jesus said.... when He comes.....He will lead and Guide you into all Truth......and make all things known to you.....
I've been to Jerusalem.....I been to what is beleived the Corner or cornerstone where the Temple will be rebuilt........
But.....no where in the bible says that the temple will be rebuilt.....
Why would satan want a rock building?
His plan is to live in the believer......If he can deceive the believer to cause the church to believe a lie......then he is in........
and when he appears as a man......then the falling away church will fellow him.......believing his lies......taking over the church by deception.....
Why would he need a rock temple?
He wants our bodies....The Temple of the Holy Spirit that lives in us.....
Now......this causing people....especieally some of the believers to look for the false christ to dwell in the temple in Jerusalem......sounds good...But I believe this is part of the deception.......
Jesus said....
Mark 13:14......But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation.....spoken of by Daniel the Prophet....standing where it ought not........(let him that readeth understand,)
then let them that be in Judea flee to the Mountains:)
19......For in those days.....shall be affliction such as was not from the beginning of the Creation which God Created...unto this Time, neither shall be.....
20.....And except that the Lord had shortened those days, No Flesh should be saved:
but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.....
21.....And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or lo, he is there; Believe Him Not;
22.....For False Christs and False Prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, TO SEDUCE, If it were Possible, even the Elect.......
23.....But take ye heed:
behold I have foretold you All Things.....
Why did he not tell about the New Temple......and the False Christ if this is what is going to happen......?
This would be so obveous......and we would just wait for the rebuilding of the Temple........then know it was the end......RIGHT
Paul wrote....
II Thes. 2:3....Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come.....EXCEPT there come a falling away first,
and that Man of Sin be Revealed, the son of perdition:
4.....WHO opposeth and exalteth himself above ALL that is Called God......
sitteth in the temple of God.......shewing himself that he is God...
When Jeus said....Spoken of by Daniel stand where it ought not.....let him that readeth understand.....
When Jesus said this....He had not ascended into heaven....he had not presented His Blood before the Holiest of Holies in Heaven......He had not paid for our sin debt......
no one understood about the Holy Spirit living in the believer.....this was revealed on Pentecost......The Church was not born yet....
So what did Daniel prophecy?
Daniel 11:45.....And he (a/c) shall plant the Tabernacles of his palace between the Seas in the Glorious Holy Mountain; yet he a/c shall come to his end, and none shall help him.....
Glorious Holy Mountain?
Psalms 48:1.....Great is the Lord, and Greatly to be praised, in the city of Our God, in the Mountain of His holiness....
2......Beautiful for situation, the Joy of the Whole Earth, is Mount Zion, on the sides of the North, the City of the Great King......
Mt. Zion? the church? the city of God.....Christ in us the born again believer.......The Church of the First Born....
Isaiah 14:12....How art thou Fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13......For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will Exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I Will sit also upon the Mount of the congregation, in the sides of the North;
14.....I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH........
15.......Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16.......They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that Made the Earth to Tremble, that did Shake Kingdoms;
17.......That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
God has a Plan
God has a Purpose......The devil has always been God' enemy....so God has a plan....where satan is defeated....that is by the Blood of Jesus....when satan had Jesus killed....it was in God's plan.....and this end time is the conclusion....Satan will be defeated.....
But satan's plan is to deceive the Church.....the Anointed ones....and only by deception can he take away the Power Jesus gave the Church....
We the Believer have power over satan.....but we have lost our power because of unbelief.....And not Loving Truth....
Wrong believing.........
We need to get back into the Word......Thy Word is Truth.....
Seek the Lord with All Your Heart....Seek Truth
Follow Jesus.....
Jesus said....Follow Me
And we all need to be Filled with the Holy Spirit.....If we reject the Holy spirit in our lives....How will we know the Truth?
Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to Lead and Guide us into all....all truth
The Word of God.....and the Holy Spirit of God.....AGREE
The Holy Spirit that dwells in us the believer.....Agrees with the word....
If the word and the Spirit do not agree.....the there is something wrong....
If you read the word and you do not understand it......then pray and the Lord Jesus will reveal the truth of the word to you.....
This is how we learn to walk with the Lord.....
Follow his word.....Believe his word.....even we don't understand it...believe it....and He will open your understanding an reveal truth to you.....
We must all agree the Word is Truth......and believe the word and Grow spiritually......
bb
Thank you for your response........You did very well......
I do believe the a/c will be a real person.....and will say all the right things.......He will be very religious and cause many to believe Him...because he is the false light.......and will deceive if it were possible the very elect.....
The Kingdom of God on the Earth today is a Spiritual Kingdom....
Jesus said......the Kingdom comes not with Observation.....the Kingdom of God is with in you......the believer
Jesus also taught the wheat and the tares......which grow up together...
John wrote
I John 2:19....Little children, it is the last time:
and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come,
even now are there many antichrists;
whereby we know that it is the last time.......
there were a/c even in John's time
but...
20....But ye have An Unction from the Holy One, and ye know all Things...
The Holy One is the Holy Spirit that..... He Jesus sent back to us the Believer...... and Jesus said.... when He comes.....He will lead and Guide you into all Truth......and make all things known to you.....
I've been to Jerusalem.....I been to what is beleived the Corner or cornerstone where the Temple will be rebuilt........
But.....no where in the bible says that the temple will be rebuilt.....
Why would satan want a rock building?
His plan is to live in the believer......If he can deceive the believer to cause the church to believe a lie......then he is in........
and when he appears as a man......then the falling away church will fellow him.......believing his lies......taking over the church by deception.....
Why would he need a rock temple?
He wants our bodies....The Temple of the Holy Spirit that lives in us.....
Now......this causing people....especieally some of the believers to look for the false christ to dwell in the temple in Jerusalem......sounds good...But I believe this is part of the deception.......
Jesus said....
Mark 13:14......But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation.....spoken of by Daniel the Prophet....standing where it ought not........(let him that readeth understand,)
then let them that be in Judea flee to the Mountains:)
19......For in those days.....shall be affliction such as was not from the beginning of the Creation which God Created...unto this Time, neither shall be.....
20.....And except that the Lord had shortened those days, No Flesh should be saved:
but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.....
21.....And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or lo, he is there; Believe Him Not;
22.....For False Christs and False Prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, TO SEDUCE, If it were Possible, even the Elect.......
23.....But take ye heed:
behold I have foretold you All Things.....
Why did he not tell about the New Temple......and the False Christ if this is what is going to happen......?
This would be so obveous......and we would just wait for the rebuilding of the Temple........then know it was the end......RIGHT
Paul wrote....
II Thes. 2:3....Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come.....EXCEPT there come a falling away first,
and that Man of Sin be Revealed, the son of perdition:
4.....WHO opposeth and exalteth himself above ALL that is Called God......
sitteth in the temple of God.......shewing himself that he is God...
When Jeus said....Spoken of by Daniel stand where it ought not.....let him that readeth understand.....
When Jesus said this....He had not ascended into heaven....he had not presented His Blood before the Holiest of Holies in Heaven......He had not paid for our sin debt......
no one understood about the Holy Spirit living in the believer.....this was revealed on Pentecost......The Church was not born yet....
So what did Daniel prophecy?
Daniel 11:45.....And he (a/c) shall plant the Tabernacles of his palace between the Seas in the Glorious Holy Mountain; yet he a/c shall come to his end, and none shall help him.....
Glorious Holy Mountain?
Psalms 48:1.....Great is the Lord, and Greatly to be praised, in the city of Our God, in the Mountain of His holiness....
2......Beautiful for situation, the Joy of the Whole Earth, is Mount Zion, on the sides of the North, the City of the Great King......
Mt. Zion? the church? the city of God.....Christ in us the born again believer.......The Church of the First Born....
Isaiah 14:12....How art thou Fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13......For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will Exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I Will sit also upon the Mount of the congregation, in the sides of the North;
14.....I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH........
15.......Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16.......They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that Made the Earth to Tremble, that did Shake Kingdoms;
17.......That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
God has a Plan
God has a Purpose......The devil has always been God' enemy....so God has a plan....where satan is defeated....that is by the Blood of Jesus....when satan had Jesus killed....it was in God's plan.....and this end time is the conclusion....Satan will be defeated.....
But satan's plan is to deceive the Church.....the Anointed ones....and only by deception can he take away the Power Jesus gave the Church....
We the Believer have power over satan.....but we have lost our power because of unbelief.....And not Loving Truth....
Wrong believing.........
We need to get back into the Word......Thy Word is Truth.....
Seek the Lord with All Your Heart....Seek Truth
Follow Jesus.....
Jesus said....Follow Me
And we all need to be Filled with the Holy Spirit.....If we reject the Holy spirit in our lives....How will we know the Truth?
Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to Lead and Guide us into all....all truth
The Word of God.....and the Holy Spirit of God.....AGREE
The Holy Spirit that dwells in us the believer.....Agrees with the word....
If the word and the Spirit do not agree.....the there is something wrong....
If you read the word and you do not understand it......then pray and the Lord Jesus will reveal the truth of the word to you.....
This is how we learn to walk with the Lord.....
Follow his word.....Believe his word.....even we don't understand it...believe it....and He will open your understanding an reveal truth to you.....
We must all agree the Word is Truth......and believe the word and Grow spiritually......
bb
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
by Herr_Earalav on Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:00 pm
Mrs B,
Your points are interesting. To be honest, I have not satisfied myself as to what extent the Temple will be rebuilt. I do not think I can do that until it is actually done. :-)
However, there are some points that come from the TRUTH that have to happen. First, there has to be a 70th week. Second, there has to be a stoppage of the daily sacrifice at the mid-point of that week. Third, this stoppage has to occur because of the action of the one who confirms the final one-week convenant. (Daniel 9:27ff)
Now, I will agree that to do all of these things there doesn't necessarily have to be a Temple. It could be a tabernacle. Or, as in the days of Zerubbabal and the rebuilding of the second temple, the Jewish people could rebuild the alter and re-institute the daily sacrifice and the rituals of temple worship while the edifice itself is built.
There are other references that clearly depict a physical AC sitting in a physical building described as the Temple. These are laid out repeadedly in earlier posts.
To be honest, my biggest problem with your arguments is the rejection of the clear, open, plain meaning of these scriptures. God's Word is Truth, as you have said. I guess as I read through this string and what prompted me to post is that you seem to be rejecting that Truth when it doesn't agree with your allegorical/spiritual interpretation of other selected scriptures. All of which, BTW, also work with a physical fulfillment of this prophecy.
I would respectfully suggest that you back up and consider all of the references to this event, not just the ones that support your theory.
Your points are interesting. To be honest, I have not satisfied myself as to what extent the Temple will be rebuilt. I do not think I can do that until it is actually done. :-)
However, there are some points that come from the TRUTH that have to happen. First, there has to be a 70th week. Second, there has to be a stoppage of the daily sacrifice at the mid-point of that week. Third, this stoppage has to occur because of the action of the one who confirms the final one-week convenant. (Daniel 9:27ff)
Now, I will agree that to do all of these things there doesn't necessarily have to be a Temple. It could be a tabernacle. Or, as in the days of Zerubbabal and the rebuilding of the second temple, the Jewish people could rebuild the alter and re-institute the daily sacrifice and the rituals of temple worship while the edifice itself is built.
There are other references that clearly depict a physical AC sitting in a physical building described as the Temple. These are laid out repeadedly in earlier posts.
To be honest, my biggest problem with your arguments is the rejection of the clear, open, plain meaning of these scriptures. God's Word is Truth, as you have said. I guess as I read through this string and what prompted me to post is that you seem to be rejecting that Truth when it doesn't agree with your allegorical/spiritual interpretation of other selected scriptures. All of which, BTW, also work with a physical fulfillment of this prophecy.
I would respectfully suggest that you back up and consider all of the references to this event, not just the ones that support your theory.
"My religion teaches me that I am as safe in battle as in bed. If all men believed this way, all men would be equally brave." - Gen. Thomas "Stone Wall" Jackson
-
Herr_Earalav - Posts: 50
- Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:02 pm
- Location: Huntsville, AL
by Herr_Earalav on Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:19 pm
Mrs. B wrote:Jesus said....
Mark 13:14......But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation.....spoken of by Daniel the Prophet....standing where it ought not........(let him that readeth understand,)
then let them that be in Judea flee to the Mountains:)
19......For in those days.....shall be affliction such as was not from the beginning of the Creation which God Created...unto this Time, neither shall be.....
20.....And except that the Lord had shortened those days, No Flesh should be saved:
but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.....
21.....And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or lo, he is there; Believe Him Not;
22.....For False Christs and False Prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, TO SEDUCE, If it were Possible, even the Elect.......
23.....But take ye heed:
behold I have foretold you All Things.....
bb
OK, I had to check...
In Matthew 24:15 (the same monologue, recorded by a different author), it records it this way - "Therefore, when you see the abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing in the Holy Place..."
Also, consider the context. Jesus and his disciples had just walked up to the Mount of Olives from the Temple. You've been there, so you understand the view. The disciples commented on how wonderful the Temple was. Jesus then shocks them by declaring it will be destroyed.
They ask when,and what are the signs of his coming kingdom. He responds with a dissertation on the time of trouble, leading to the Great Tribulation, which he says will be started by this abomination standing in the holy place.
So this whole thing is spoken in the context of discussing the future of the physical Temple.
Add in the type prophesied by Daniel in chapter 11 and fulfilled by Antiochus Ephiphanies (which was historical to Jesus) and you get both a prophecy and a model for its fulfillment.
I cannot for the life of me see how you can pull anything but a physical fulfillment from that. Not without massive distortion, anyway.
Which, I have to admit, is implied by your choppy and partial quoting of scripture BTW. Whether you intend it that way or not, it seems like your intent is to selectively quote. It comes across that way, anyway.
I hope you can compile all of the evidence (including Daniel 9:27 and 12:11 as well as Daniel 11:31 in "as Daniel the prophet fortold" is a good start, as well as considering the Mount of Olives monologues from Matthew, Mark and Luke, not just Mark.) and see that a physical fulfillment is really required.
Though, as i stated before, an actual Temple may not be. A rebuilt alter and Jewish religious activity on the Temple Mount would suffice, I think.
"My religion teaches me that I am as safe in battle as in bed. If all men believed this way, all men would be equally brave." - Gen. Thomas "Stone Wall" Jackson
-
Herr_Earalav - Posts: 50
- Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:02 pm
- Location: Huntsville, AL
by IamtheWalrus on Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:27 pm
Ken
Psa 40:1-3
I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.
He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, [and] established my goings.
And he hath put a new song in my mouth, [even] praise unto our God: many shall see [it], and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.
Psa 40:1-3
I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.
He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, [and] established my goings.
And he hath put a new song in my mouth, [even] praise unto our God: many shall see [it], and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.
-
IamtheWalrus - Posts: 1946
- Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:14 pm
- Location: The people's republic of Seattle
by Mrs. B on Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:11 am
Herr_Earalav
Jesus taught a Spiritual Kingdom.....A New Birth....A Spiritual Birth...Not of the flesh....
John 1:12 But as many as received him.....to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13....Which were born.....Not of Blood....Nor of the Will of the flesh, nor of the will of man...but of God...
Ye must be Born Again....
The woman at the well....she said
John 4:20.........Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship....
21....Jesus saith unto her, Woman, Believe me....
THE HOUR COMETH, when Ye Shall Neither in This Mountain, NOR at Jerusalem Worship the Father.....
22....Ye Worship ye know Not What:
We know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
But......the Hour cometh, and NOW IS......When the TRUE WORSHIPPERS SHALL WORSHIP THE FATHER IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH:
for the Father Seeketh Such to Worship HIM......
24......GOD IS A SPIRIT: and they that worship Him Must Worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.......
Now.....saying all that......The Early Church were taught that their Bodies were the Temple........That God by His Holy Spirit Dwelt in them.....not in a temple made with hands....
Acts 7:47........BUT....Soloman Built Him an House.....
48......HOWBEIT......The Most High Dwelleth Not in Temples made with Hands......
as saith the prophet......
Not Made with Hands...........But By My Spirit Saith the Lord......
In the Temple was the Holiest of Holies.....where the Ark of the Covenant rested......and only once a year could the High Priest go to sprinkle the blood on the Ark......
Jesus our High Priest went into to the Holiest of Holiest in Heaven and presented His Blood before the Presents of God.....Paying our sin debt....for the whole World.......He is now Seated at the Right Hand of God making intercession for Us the Believers......and has sent Back the Holy Spirit.....The Promise of the Father.....
He bruised satans head......and satan bruised his heel......Jesus put His foot on satans head........and concored for us and restored to us.....Life Eternal.....What Adam Lost in the Garden.....Jesus Bought Back......
The Holy Spirit...the Anointing.....has God restored to us....We are Clothed with His Spirit.....He covers us.....restores to us... what Adam lost.....Eternal Life.....
The Temple is no more necessary.......The Moslem Mosk is there for a reason......
Most Christians are not taught that their Bodies are the Temple of God...Where God dwells.....That is why we are to Live Holy Lives.....We represent the presents of God in this World....We are the Light of the World.....
The Temple of God is our Bodies.....
Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets....
We are NOW under a New Covenant...
A New and Living Way.......
Hebrews 10:19.......Having therefore, Brethren, BOLDNESS to Enter into the Holiest....by The Blood of Jesus....
20....By a New and Living Way.....which he hadth Consecrated for Us.....Through the Veil.....that is to say...His flesh;
21.....And having An High Priest Over the House of God:
Heb. 3:6.....But Christ as a son over his own house; Whose house are we.......if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end......
I'm writting all this to help all to see.......That satan's plan is to deceive the believer and cause us to loose our position in the Body of Christ....by not understanding what Jesus has restored to us the Beleiver.....and letting satan get a foot hold....and causing us to believe a lie....
John wrote.....the a/c is in the church....or the believer...in us and many are deceived and do not reconize it that our bodies is where the Holy Spirit lives.........and if we believe a lie.....then, that is satan's power over us the believer.....
Paul wrote...
II Thess. 2:11.....And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12.....That they all might be ****** who believed not the truth...But have pleasure in unrighteousness....
13......But...We are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, Brethren Beloved of the Lord,
Because God hath From the Beginning Chosen you to Salvation through
SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT AND BELIEF OF THE TRUTH....
15.....Therefore, Brethren, Stand Fast......and Hold the Traditions which ye have been taught, whether by Word, or our Epistle.....
Now......Matt. Mark and Luke ......
To understand Matt,Mark, and Luke you have to Understand Daniel.....
and if your understanding of Daniel is incorrect....Then you can never see clearly what Jesus was Talking about.....
If we the Chruch do not understand that our Bodies are the Temple of God on the Earth today..... and that We Must Be Born Again of the Holy Spirit and the Word........then all this other is supposition.....it is all man's ideas.........It is the Holy Spirit that is our Teacher of Truth.....and the Spirit of God and the Word of God all Agree.....
bb
Jesus taught a Spiritual Kingdom.....A New Birth....A Spiritual Birth...Not of the flesh....
John 1:12 But as many as received him.....to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13....Which were born.....Not of Blood....Nor of the Will of the flesh, nor of the will of man...but of God...
Ye must be Born Again....
The woman at the well....she said
John 4:20.........Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship....
21....Jesus saith unto her, Woman, Believe me....
THE HOUR COMETH, when Ye Shall Neither in This Mountain, NOR at Jerusalem Worship the Father.....
22....Ye Worship ye know Not What:
We know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
But......the Hour cometh, and NOW IS......When the TRUE WORSHIPPERS SHALL WORSHIP THE FATHER IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH:
for the Father Seeketh Such to Worship HIM......
24......GOD IS A SPIRIT: and they that worship Him Must Worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.......
Now.....saying all that......The Early Church were taught that their Bodies were the Temple........That God by His Holy Spirit Dwelt in them.....not in a temple made with hands....
Acts 7:47........BUT....Soloman Built Him an House.....
48......HOWBEIT......The Most High Dwelleth Not in Temples made with Hands......
as saith the prophet......
Not Made with Hands...........But By My Spirit Saith the Lord......
In the Temple was the Holiest of Holies.....where the Ark of the Covenant rested......and only once a year could the High Priest go to sprinkle the blood on the Ark......
Jesus our High Priest went into to the Holiest of Holiest in Heaven and presented His Blood before the Presents of God.....Paying our sin debt....for the whole World.......He is now Seated at the Right Hand of God making intercession for Us the Believers......and has sent Back the Holy Spirit.....The Promise of the Father.....
He bruised satans head......and satan bruised his heel......Jesus put His foot on satans head........and concored for us and restored to us.....Life Eternal.....What Adam Lost in the Garden.....Jesus Bought Back......
The Holy Spirit...the Anointing.....has God restored to us....We are Clothed with His Spirit.....He covers us.....restores to us... what Adam lost.....Eternal Life.....
The Temple is no more necessary.......The Moslem Mosk is there for a reason......
Most Christians are not taught that their Bodies are the Temple of God...Where God dwells.....That is why we are to Live Holy Lives.....We represent the presents of God in this World....We are the Light of the World.....
The Temple of God is our Bodies.....
Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets....
We are NOW under a New Covenant...
A New and Living Way.......
Hebrews 10:19.......Having therefore, Brethren, BOLDNESS to Enter into the Holiest....by The Blood of Jesus....
20....By a New and Living Way.....which he hadth Consecrated for Us.....Through the Veil.....that is to say...His flesh;
21.....And having An High Priest Over the House of God:
Heb. 3:6.....But Christ as a son over his own house; Whose house are we.......if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end......
I'm writting all this to help all to see.......That satan's plan is to deceive the believer and cause us to loose our position in the Body of Christ....by not understanding what Jesus has restored to us the Beleiver.....and letting satan get a foot hold....and causing us to believe a lie....
John wrote.....the a/c is in the church....or the believer...in us and many are deceived and do not reconize it that our bodies is where the Holy Spirit lives.........and if we believe a lie.....then, that is satan's power over us the believer.....
Paul wrote...
II Thess. 2:11.....And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12.....That they all might be ****** who believed not the truth...But have pleasure in unrighteousness....
13......But...We are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, Brethren Beloved of the Lord,
Because God hath From the Beginning Chosen you to Salvation through
SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT AND BELIEF OF THE TRUTH....
15.....Therefore, Brethren, Stand Fast......and Hold the Traditions which ye have been taught, whether by Word, or our Epistle.....
Now......Matt. Mark and Luke ......
To understand Matt,Mark, and Luke you have to Understand Daniel.....
and if your understanding of Daniel is incorrect....Then you can never see clearly what Jesus was Talking about.....
If we the Chruch do not understand that our Bodies are the Temple of God on the Earth today..... and that We Must Be Born Again of the Holy Spirit and the Word........then all this other is supposition.....it is all man's ideas.........It is the Holy Spirit that is our Teacher of Truth.....and the Spirit of God and the Word of God all Agree.....
bb
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
by Salty Skipper on Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:37 am
I'm writting all this to help all to see.......That satan's plan is to deceive the believer and cause us to loose our position in the Body of Christ....by not understanding what Jesus has restored to us the Beleiver.....and letting satan get a foot hold....and causing us to believe a lie....
And what are you saying will cause a believer to lose their position in the body of Christ?
John wrote.....the a/c is in the church....or the believer...in us and many are deceived and do not reconize it that our bodies is where the Holy Spirit lives.........and if we believe a lie.....then, that is satan's power over us the believer.....
So you are saying that the antichrist is going to set up the abomination that causes desolation in our hearts? Instead of the temple, yet to be built? I don't think so.
-
Salty Skipper - MODERATOR
- Posts: 18817
- Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:56 pm
by Mrs. B on Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:38 am
Herr_Earalav.....
I give your quote from General Thomas "Stone Wall" Jackson....
to my Grandson.....He Likes sayings from People....
He took it with Him....as he leaven in September back to Iraq.....
I thought it was a good quote also....
bb
I give your quote from General Thomas "Stone Wall" Jackson....
to my Grandson.....He Likes sayings from People....
He took it with Him....as he leaven in September back to Iraq.....
I thought it was a good quote also....
bb
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
by Mrs. B on Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:36 pm
Salty....
Daniel 11:31....And arms shall stand on his part...and they shall pollute the Sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.....
32.....And SUCH as do Wickedly against the covenant......shall he corrupt by flatteries:
What is... The Sanctuary of Strength?
And shall take away the Daily Sacrifice?
Jesus is our strength.....Sanctuary is a dwelling place....Jesus dwells in us the believer.....but if we are deceived......we believe a lie....we loose our power or strength.....
Our Strength is Christ...He is the Hope of Glory.....
but they shall pollute the Sanctuary of Strenght.....that is what Paul wrote about II Thess. 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the Working of Satan with All Power and signs and lying Wonders.....
10.....And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish....Because they Received not the Love of the Truth, that they might be saved.......
11....For this cause God shall send them Strong Delusion, that they should believe a Lie:
12...That they all might be ****** who believed not the Truth, But have Pleasure in Unrighteousness....
Daniel.......and shall take away the daily sacrifice.....
The Daily Sacrifice....Our Daily Sacrifice is Jesus.....if the Sacrifice is taken away........then the Abomination that maketh desolate is set up....
Dan 11:32.....And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall be corrupt by flatteries: But the People that do know their God shall be Strong, and do Exploits.....
This is Spiritual Warfare......
Who can do wickedly against the Covenant? but a person who is suppose to be a Christian.......
But by flatteries is deceived......Christianity is a Heart Condition.......
We have a New Covenant.....bought by the Blood of Jesus......
Those who do wickedly against the Covenant is a Person who is suppose to be a Christian.....but they do wickedly against the Covenant....and by flatteries is deceived.....
Why did Jesus warn us again and again not to be deceived.......The Kingdom of God is a spiritual Kingdom so our warfare is spiritual.....
When we are deceived and we believe a lie......we loose our position in Christ.....
33......And they that Understand among the People shall instruct many:
Yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.....
34....Now when they shall fall.....they shall be holpen with a little help:
But many shall cleave to them with flatteries.....
35.....And some of Them of Understand shall Fall, ......to Try them, and to Purge, and to Make them White,....Even to the Time of the End:
Because it is yet for a Time Appointed.....
bb
Daniel 11:31....And arms shall stand on his part...and they shall pollute the Sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.....
32.....And SUCH as do Wickedly against the covenant......shall he corrupt by flatteries:
What is... The Sanctuary of Strength?
And shall take away the Daily Sacrifice?
Jesus is our strength.....Sanctuary is a dwelling place....Jesus dwells in us the believer.....but if we are deceived......we believe a lie....we loose our power or strength.....
Our Strength is Christ...He is the Hope of Glory.....
but they shall pollute the Sanctuary of Strenght.....that is what Paul wrote about II Thess. 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the Working of Satan with All Power and signs and lying Wonders.....
10.....And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish....Because they Received not the Love of the Truth, that they might be saved.......
11....For this cause God shall send them Strong Delusion, that they should believe a Lie:
12...That they all might be ****** who believed not the Truth, But have Pleasure in Unrighteousness....
Daniel.......and shall take away the daily sacrifice.....
The Daily Sacrifice....Our Daily Sacrifice is Jesus.....if the Sacrifice is taken away........then the Abomination that maketh desolate is set up....
Dan 11:32.....And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall be corrupt by flatteries: But the People that do know their God shall be Strong, and do Exploits.....
This is Spiritual Warfare......
Who can do wickedly against the Covenant? but a person who is suppose to be a Christian.......
But by flatteries is deceived......Christianity is a Heart Condition.......
We have a New Covenant.....bought by the Blood of Jesus......
Those who do wickedly against the Covenant is a Person who is suppose to be a Christian.....but they do wickedly against the Covenant....and by flatteries is deceived.....
Why did Jesus warn us again and again not to be deceived.......The Kingdom of God is a spiritual Kingdom so our warfare is spiritual.....
When we are deceived and we believe a lie......we loose our position in Christ.....
33......And they that Understand among the People shall instruct many:
Yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.....
34....Now when they shall fall.....they shall be holpen with a little help:
But many shall cleave to them with flatteries.....
35.....And some of Them of Understand shall Fall, ......to Try them, and to Purge, and to Make them White,....Even to the Time of the End:
Because it is yet for a Time Appointed.....
bb
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
by Salty Skipper on Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:07 pm
Believing the lie, and the abomination of desolation are two different things.
Daniel 12:
11"From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
Matthew 24:15
"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—
To say that it will not be something that can be seen, is not true. It's very clear that it will be an act that will be seen. Jesus would not have said it if it weren't true.
Also, regarding losing your position in Christ because of believing a lie:
Matthew 24:23-25
23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.
2 Thes. 2 is CLEARLY referring to those who have rejected the saving grace of Jesus:
7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only (R)he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
Daniel 12:
11"From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
Matthew 24:15
"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—
To say that it will not be something that can be seen, is not true. It's very clear that it will be an act that will be seen. Jesus would not have said it if it weren't true.
Also, regarding losing your position in Christ because of believing a lie:
Matthew 24:23-25
23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.
2 Thes. 2 is CLEARLY referring to those who have rejected the saving grace of Jesus:
7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only (R)he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
-
Salty Skipper - MODERATOR
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To our closets
by lookup on Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:22 pm
Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of Thy servant, and his
supplications, and cause Thy face to shine upon Thy sanctuary that
is desolate, for the Lord's sake -- Dan. 9:17
God's army always moves forward on its knees -- K. P. Yohannon
supplications, and cause Thy face to shine upon Thy sanctuary that
is desolate, for the Lord's sake -- Dan. 9:17
God's army always moves forward on its knees -- K. P. Yohannon
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour” 1 Pet. 5:8
<><
<><
-
lookup - Posts: 961
- Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:43 pm
- Location: CA central coast
by Salty Skipper on Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:31 pm
So,
Are you saying also, Lookup, that there will be no literal temple?
No one is arguing here that our bodies are not the temple of the Holy Spirit. The temple where the abomination of desolation will be set up is a building. The building will not be abstract. It will be literal.
Are you saying also, Lookup, that there will be no literal temple?
No one is arguing here that our bodies are not the temple of the Holy Spirit. The temple where the abomination of desolation will be set up is a building. The building will not be abstract. It will be literal.
-
Salty Skipper - MODERATOR
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- Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:56 pm
by OBXBob on Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:36 pm
Revelation 11
1. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
It's difficult to spiritualize Revelation 11:1 and 2.
There will be a Temple. This is the Temple spoken of in the 70th week of Daniel.
YBIC,
Bob
1. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
It's difficult to spiritualize Revelation 11:1 and 2.
There will be a Temple. This is the Temple spoken of in the 70th week of Daniel.
YBIC,
Bob
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OBXBob - Posts: 15257
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:37 am
by Mrs. B on Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:38 pm
Daniel 11:45.....And he shall plant the Tabernacles of His Palace between the seas.....in the Glorious Holy Mountain;
yet he shall come to His end......and none shall help.......
Paul said......before Jesus can come back....the A/c has to come....has to be revealed....
Jesus said.....
Matt.24:15......When ye therefore shall see the abomination of Desolation......
The Abomination of Desolation....
spoken of by Daniel the Prophet....
stand in the Holy Place.....
(whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Stand in the Holy Place?
where is the Holy Place to day?
Mark 13:14......But when ye shall see the Abomination of Desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the Prophet,
standing where it ought not,
(Let him that readeth understand,)
then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:)
19.....For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time,
neither shall be....
20.....And except that the Lord....SHORTENED THOSE DAYS....No Flesh should be saved:
BUT FOR THE ELECT'S SAKE...., WHOM He hath Chosen, He Hath Shortened the Days.....
21.....And then If any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or lo, he is there: Believe Him Not:
22.......For False Christs and False Prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, To Seduce, If it were possible,Even the Elect....
23....But Take ye heed: Behold, I have Foretold you all things.......
Daniel 9:26.....And after threescore and two weeks....Shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined......
27......And he (MESSIAH) shall confirm The Covenant....(the Blood Covenant....The New Covenant) with many for one Week:
and in the Midst of the Week.....He Messiah shall cause the Sacrifice and the Oblation to cease,)
The Witnesses prophecy for 1260 days....
The woman is caught up into the Wilderness and Nourished for 1260days..
In the Midst of the Week......He messiah shall cause the Sacrifice and Oblation to Cease....) and for the Overspreading of Abominations....He shall make it desolate....Even until the Consummation and that Determined shall be Poured unon the Desolate.....
Daniel 11:45.....And He (a/c) shall plant the Tabernacles of His Palace between the Seas in the Glorious Holy Mountain;
yet he shall come to his end....and none shall help him...
And a/c shall plant the Tabernacles of His Palace between the seas in the Glorious Holy Mountain.....
Notice Seas.....Waters....
Rev. 17:15.....And he said unto me....THE WATERS which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, Are Peoples, and Multitudes, and Nations, and Tongues....
16....And the Ten Horns which thou sawest upon the Beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.....
17.....For God hath put in their hearts to Fulfill His Will....and to Agree and Give Their Kingdom unto the Beast.....UNTIL THE WORDS OF GOD SHALL BE FULFILLED.......
Isaiah 14:14.....(O Lucifer son of the morning)
I will ascend above the height of the clouds; I will be like the Most High...
13.....For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt My Throne above the Stars of God: I will sit also upon the Mount of the Congrgation...in the sides of the North.....
This has been satans heart desire.....to take over God's throne.....
How can he do this.......Put through the FALSE Beleiver.....Jesus has given all power and authority to the Believer in His...Jesus Name.....it is the plan of the devil to take over.......Just like Adam sin....and all his power...Adams power the devil took over......so in this last stand....satans plan is to take over the power of the belielver.....take the place of Jesus....by deceving the believer to believe lies.....
using his name......False teaching....false believing.....believing lies....
Jeremiah 7:14......Therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your Fathers, as I have done to SHILOH...
15......And I will cast you out of My Sight, AS I have Cast out all your Brethren. even the whole seed of Ephraim...
16.....Therefore......Pray Not Thou for this People.....Neither Lift up Cry nor Prayer for them, Neither Make Intercession to me; for I will not Hear Thee.......
bb
yet he shall come to His end......and none shall help.......
Paul said......before Jesus can come back....the A/c has to come....has to be revealed....
Jesus said.....
Matt.24:15......When ye therefore shall see the abomination of Desolation......
The Abomination of Desolation....
spoken of by Daniel the Prophet....
stand in the Holy Place.....
(whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Stand in the Holy Place?
where is the Holy Place to day?
Mark 13:14......But when ye shall see the Abomination of Desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the Prophet,
standing where it ought not,
(Let him that readeth understand,)
then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:)
19.....For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time,
neither shall be....
20.....And except that the Lord....SHORTENED THOSE DAYS....No Flesh should be saved:
BUT FOR THE ELECT'S SAKE...., WHOM He hath Chosen, He Hath Shortened the Days.....
21.....And then If any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or lo, he is there: Believe Him Not:
22.......For False Christs and False Prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, To Seduce, If it were possible,Even the Elect....
23....But Take ye heed: Behold, I have Foretold you all things.......
Daniel 9:26.....And after threescore and two weeks....Shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined......
27......And he (MESSIAH) shall confirm The Covenant....(the Blood Covenant....The New Covenant) with many for one Week:
and in the Midst of the Week.....He Messiah shall cause the Sacrifice and the Oblation to cease,)
The Witnesses prophecy for 1260 days....
The woman is caught up into the Wilderness and Nourished for 1260days..
In the Midst of the Week......He messiah shall cause the Sacrifice and Oblation to Cease....) and for the Overspreading of Abominations....He shall make it desolate....Even until the Consummation and that Determined shall be Poured unon the Desolate.....
Daniel 11:45.....And He (a/c) shall plant the Tabernacles of His Palace between the Seas in the Glorious Holy Mountain;
yet he shall come to his end....and none shall help him...
And a/c shall plant the Tabernacles of His Palace between the seas in the Glorious Holy Mountain.....
Notice Seas.....Waters....
Rev. 17:15.....And he said unto me....THE WATERS which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, Are Peoples, and Multitudes, and Nations, and Tongues....
16....And the Ten Horns which thou sawest upon the Beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.....
17.....For God hath put in their hearts to Fulfill His Will....and to Agree and Give Their Kingdom unto the Beast.....UNTIL THE WORDS OF GOD SHALL BE FULFILLED.......
Isaiah 14:14.....(O Lucifer son of the morning)
I will ascend above the height of the clouds; I will be like the Most High...
13.....For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt My Throne above the Stars of God: I will sit also upon the Mount of the Congrgation...in the sides of the North.....
This has been satans heart desire.....to take over God's throne.....
How can he do this.......Put through the FALSE Beleiver.....Jesus has given all power and authority to the Believer in His...Jesus Name.....it is the plan of the devil to take over.......Just like Adam sin....and all his power...Adams power the devil took over......so in this last stand....satans plan is to take over the power of the belielver.....take the place of Jesus....by deceving the believer to believe lies.....
using his name......False teaching....false believing.....believing lies....
Jeremiah 7:14......Therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your Fathers, as I have done to SHILOH...
15......And I will cast you out of My Sight, AS I have Cast out all your Brethren. even the whole seed of Ephraim...
16.....Therefore......Pray Not Thou for this People.....Neither Lift up Cry nor Prayer for them, Neither Make Intercession to me; for I will not Hear Thee.......
bb
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
by Mrs. B on Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:47 pm
I'm not a debater....
Just writing the scriptures.....
to show why I believe what I believe.....
Now I'm subject to Change......I try to stay teach able.....
But the word of God does not change.....so I have to change My believing to what the word says.......
I appreciate your feed back.......and prayers
bb
Just writing the scriptures.....
to show why I believe what I believe.....
Now I'm subject to Change......I try to stay teach able.....
But the word of God does not change.....so I have to change My believing to what the word says.......
I appreciate your feed back.......and prayers
bb
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
by Salty Skipper on Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:49 pm
You still didn't address 2 Thes. 2.
2 Thes. 2 is CLEARLY referring to those who have rejected the saving grace of Jesus:
7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only (R)he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
-
Salty Skipper - MODERATOR
- Posts: 18817
- Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:56 pm
by Mrs. B on Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:58 pm
Zech 6:12.....And speak unto him, saying
Thus speaketh the Lord of Hosts....
saying, Behole the Man Whose Name is The Branch;
and He Shall Grow Up out of His Place,
and He Shall BUILD THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD:
13....Even HE SHALL BUILD THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD;
And He Shall Bear the Glory.....and Shall Sit and Rule upon His Throne;
and He shall Be A Priest upon His Throne:
and the Counsel of Peace Shall be Between them Both....
Jesus is the Builder of the Temple......
We are the Temple of the Lord....
You see I see the Body of Christ the Temple that Jesus Built.....
The devil will not be satisfied with a Rock Temple.....His desire is to live in you..... the believer
I John 2:19.....They went out from us....
but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us,
they would no doubt have continued with us:
but they went out , that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.....
18.....Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that
antichrist shall come, even now are they many antichrist; whereby we know that it is the last time.....
19.....But Ye Have an Unction from the Holy One, and ye Know All Things......
bb
Thus speaketh the Lord of Hosts....
saying, Behole the Man Whose Name is The Branch;
and He Shall Grow Up out of His Place,
and He Shall BUILD THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD:
13....Even HE SHALL BUILD THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD;
And He Shall Bear the Glory.....and Shall Sit and Rule upon His Throne;
and He shall Be A Priest upon His Throne:
and the Counsel of Peace Shall be Between them Both....
Jesus is the Builder of the Temple......
We are the Temple of the Lord....
You see I see the Body of Christ the Temple that Jesus Built.....
The devil will not be satisfied with a Rock Temple.....His desire is to live in you..... the believer
I John 2:19.....They went out from us....
but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us,
they would no doubt have continued with us:
but they went out , that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.....
18.....Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that
antichrist shall come, even now are they many antichrist; whereby we know that it is the last time.....
19.....But Ye Have an Unction from the Holy One, and ye Know All Things......
bb
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
by Salty Skipper on Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:05 pm
Mrs B.,
No one has said that we are not the temple of the Holy Spirit. We are saying that the temple where the abomination of desolation will take place will be a literal building. When it is built, will you still say that there will be no literal temple?
Also, there's still the matter of 2 Thes. 2 that we haven't cleared up.
No one has said that we are not the temple of the Holy Spirit. We are saying that the temple where the abomination of desolation will take place will be a literal building. When it is built, will you still say that there will be no literal temple?
Also, there's still the matter of 2 Thes. 2 that we haven't cleared up.
-
Salty Skipper - MODERATOR
- Posts: 18817
- Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:56 pm
by Triton57 on Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:40 pm
Mrs. B wrote:Jesus taught a Spiritual Kingdom.....A New Birth....A Spiritual Birth...Not of the flesh....
John 1:12 But as many as received him.....to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13....Which were born.....Not of Blood....Nor of the Will of the flesh, nor of the will of man...but of God...
Ye must be Born Again....
The woman at the well....she said
John 4:20.........Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship....
21....Jesus saith unto her, Woman, Believe me....
THE HOUR COMETH, when Ye Shall Neither in This Mountain, NOR at Jerusalem Worship the Father.....
22....Ye Worship ye know Not What:
We know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
But......the Hour cometh, and NOW IS......When the TRUE WORSHIPPERS SHALL WORSHIP THE FATHER IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH:
for the Father Seeketh Such to Worship HIM......
24......GOD IS A SPIRIT: and they that worship Him Must Worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.......
Now.....saying all that......The Early Church were taught that their Bodies were the Temple........That God by His Holy Spirit Dwelt in them.....not in a temple made with hands....
Acts 7:47........BUT....Soloman Built Him an House.....
48......HOWBEIT......The Most High Dwelleth Not in Temples made with Hands......
as saith the prophet......
Not Made with Hands...........But By My Spirit Saith the Lord......
In the Temple was the Holiest of Holies.....where the Ark of the Covenant rested......and only once a year could the High Priest go to sprinkle the blood on the Ark......
Jesus our High Priest went into to the Holiest of Holiest in Heaven and presented His Blood before the Presents of God.....Paying our sin debt....for the whole World.......He is now Seated at the Right Hand of God making intercession for Us the Believers......and has sent Back the Holy Spirit.....The Promise of the Father.....
He bruised satans head......and satan bruised his heel......Jesus put His foot on satans head........and concored for us and restored to us.....Life Eternal.....What Adam Lost in the Garden.....Jesus Bought Back......
The Holy Spirit...the Anointing.....has God restored to us....We are Clothed with His Spirit.....He covers us.....restores to us... what Adam lost.....Eternal Life.....
The Temple is no more necessary.......The Moslem Mosk is there for a reason......
Most Christians are not taught that their Bodies are the Temple of God...Where God dwells.....That is why we are to Live Holy Lives.....We represent the presents of God in this World....We are the Light of the World.....
The Temple of God is our Bodies.....
Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets....
We are NOW under a New Covenant...
A New and Living Way.......
Hebrews 10:19.......Having therefore, Brethren, BOLDNESS to Enter into the Holiest....by The Blood of Jesus....
20....By a New and Living Way.....which he hadth Consecrated for Us.....Through the Veil.....that is to say...His flesh;
21.....And having An High Priest Over the House of God:
Heb. 3:6.....But Christ as a son over his own house; Whose house are we.......if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end......
I'm writting all this to help all to see.......That satan's plan is to deceive the believer and cause us to loose our position in the Body of Christ....by not understanding what Jesus has restored to us the Beleiver.....and letting satan get a foot hold....and causing us to believe a lie....
John wrote.....the a/c is in the church....or the believer...in us and many are deceived and do not reconize it that our bodies is where the Holy Spirit lives.........and if we believe a lie.....then, that is satan's power over us the believer.....
Paul wrote...
II Thess. 2:11.....And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12.....That they all might be ****** who believed not the truth...But have pleasure in unrighteousness....
13......But...We are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, Brethren Beloved of the Lord,
Because God hath From the Beginning Chosen you to Salvation through
SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT AND BELIEF OF THE TRUTH....
15.....Therefore, Brethren, Stand Fast......and Hold the Traditions which ye have been taught, whether by Word, or our Epistle.....
Now......Matt. Mark and Luke ......
To understand Matt,Mark, and Luke you have to Understand Daniel.....
and if your understanding of Daniel is incorrect....Then you can never see clearly what Jesus was Talking about.....
If we the Chruch do not understand that our Bodies are the Temple of God on the Earth today..... and that We Must Be Born Again of the Holy Spirit and the Word........then all this other is supposition.....it is all man's ideas.........It is the Holy Spirit that is our Teacher of Truth.....and the Spirit of God and the Word of God all Agree.....
A couple questions:
Do the Jews believe this or are they living under the old thinking, not yet being born again through acceptance of Yeshua?
If they don't believe as Christians do, yet they believe as the Old Covenant says, would they have reason to rebuild the temple literally?
I don't think the Jews have our perspective having been filled with the Holy Spirit and understanding the fulfillment of the Law in Christ. Bible prophecy speaks of events that take place within earth space-time. Given these things, when the Bible speaks of a temple in regards to future events on the earth before Christ returns in glory, could it not be the result of Jews building it because they still believe there is need for the daily sacrifice? Just because they build it and the Bible tells us its there, does that negate the spiritual reality that we are temples of flesh in which our spirits dwell? Or that the Holy Spirit, when invited, cohabitates our temples with us?
Personally, I see no disparity nor do I see the existence of a future literal temple on the Temple Mount in any way contradicting anything said about the spiritual reality. Rather I see it as the literall fulfillment of future prophecy by those who have been blinded to the reality of Christ as a nation. They still believe the daily sacrifice is needed, even though we know it is not. We are not going to convince them I think and they will do what they want, especially if the Magog invasion spurs Israel's return to God. The Bible just tells us what they're going to do and how that will play out in the end-time scenario.
Phillip
2 Timothy 4:1-4
“About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition.” - Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
2 Timothy 4:1-4
“About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition.” - Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
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Triton57 - Posts: 1787
- Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:06 pm
- Location: Burien, WA
by Mrs. B on Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:59 pm
Salty....
2 Thess.2:1-2
The Thess. must have thought that Jesus was coming any day..so Paul reassures them that Two things had to happen before His Return.....
3b.......for that day shall not come
Except there come a falling away first.....
And that man of sin be revealed.....
The son of Perdition;
then he explains the a/c charcter....
4...Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,,,
or that is Worshipped;
SO...SO...SO THAT HE.....AS GOD.....SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD....Shewing Himself that he is God......
Before a/c can sit in the temple....the body of christ....the church....shewing himself that he is God.....There has to be a falling away from the truth.......first
5.....Remember ye not, that , when I was yet with you.....I told you these things?
And now ye know what is holding back the coming of the lord....
6......and now ye know what witholdeth.....that he (a/c) might be revealed in his time.....
until the falling away from the truth.....the a/c could not take over the body of christ.....The sitting in the temple or body of christ....shewing himself that he is God.....
7.......For the MYSTERY OF INIQUITY DOTH ALREADY WORK:
Only he who now letteth will let...until he be taken out of the way.....
only the believer can stop the a/c spirit from taking over the church....when we fall away from the truth and follow traditions and mans doctrine we open the door for the a/c spirit......The Mystery of iniquity takes over......
and then shall that wicked be revealed......The the A/c is revealed
8.....Whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His Mouth, and shall destroy with the Brigntness of His coming;
Rev. 19:21.....And the remnant were slain with the SWORD of Him that sat upon the horse, Which SWORD Proceded out of His Mouth, and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.......(The Spoken Word)
The Mystery of Iniquity?
Rev. 17:5......And upon her Forehead was a Name Written.....
MYSTERY,
BABYLON THE GREAT........
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS.........
AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.....
Even Him....Whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders....
10....And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not THE LOVE of the Truth, that they Might Be Saved....
11....And for this cause God shall send them Strong Delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12....That they all might be ****** who believed not the Truth...But had plesure in unrighteousness....
13....BUT.....we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, Brethren Beloved of the Lord....
Because God hath from the Beginning chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and Belief of the Truth.......
bb
2 Thess.2:1-2
The Thess. must have thought that Jesus was coming any day..so Paul reassures them that Two things had to happen before His Return.....
3b.......for that day shall not come
Except there come a falling away first.....
And that man of sin be revealed.....
The son of Perdition;
then he explains the a/c charcter....
4...Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,,,
or that is Worshipped;
SO...SO...SO THAT HE.....AS GOD.....SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD....Shewing Himself that he is God......
Before a/c can sit in the temple....the body of christ....the church....shewing himself that he is God.....There has to be a falling away from the truth.......first
5.....Remember ye not, that , when I was yet with you.....I told you these things?
And now ye know what is holding back the coming of the lord....
6......and now ye know what witholdeth.....that he (a/c) might be revealed in his time.....
until the falling away from the truth.....the a/c could not take over the body of christ.....The sitting in the temple or body of christ....shewing himself that he is God.....
7.......For the MYSTERY OF INIQUITY DOTH ALREADY WORK:
Only he who now letteth will let...until he be taken out of the way.....
only the believer can stop the a/c spirit from taking over the church....when we fall away from the truth and follow traditions and mans doctrine we open the door for the a/c spirit......The Mystery of iniquity takes over......
and then shall that wicked be revealed......The the A/c is revealed
8.....Whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His Mouth, and shall destroy with the Brigntness of His coming;
Rev. 19:21.....And the remnant were slain with the SWORD of Him that sat upon the horse, Which SWORD Proceded out of His Mouth, and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.......(The Spoken Word)
The Mystery of Iniquity?
Rev. 17:5......And upon her Forehead was a Name Written.....
MYSTERY,
BABYLON THE GREAT........
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS.........
AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.....
Even Him....Whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders....
10....And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not THE LOVE of the Truth, that they Might Be Saved....
11....And for this cause God shall send them Strong Delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12....That they all might be ****** who believed not the Truth...But had plesure in unrighteousness....
13....BUT.....we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, Brethren Beloved of the Lord....
Because God hath from the Beginning chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and Belief of the Truth.......
bb
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
by OBXBob on Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:12 pm
Hello Mrs. B.,
How do you interpret the following verses?:
Revelation 11
1. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:1 and 2 are clearly taking place at the same time frame as the two witnesses in Jerusalem. If there is not to be another Temple, what then do you believe John is told to measure with a reed in 11:1 and 11:2?
YBIC,
Bob
How do you interpret the following verses?:
Revelation 11
1. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:1 and 2 are clearly taking place at the same time frame as the two witnesses in Jerusalem. If there is not to be another Temple, what then do you believe John is told to measure with a reed in 11:1 and 11:2?
YBIC,
Bob
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OBXBob - Posts: 15257
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:37 am
by Salty Skipper on Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:20 pm
Regarding 2 Thes. 2; I'm going to post the entire chapter without elipses so that there is less confusion. The less confusion, the better.
This chapter speaks of apostasy. It speaks of a literal temple. It speaks of those who are deceived because they are unsaved.
You have claimed, Mrs B, that the apostasy and the abomination of desolation are the same thing. Clearly, taken in context, and with the other teachings on the abomination of desolation, that is a false claim. They are two separate things. There is already apostasy being tought to the body of believers now. Name it and claim it doctrines, new age garbage, and all sorts of venom being spewed forth in pulpits every Sunday across America. That is what happens when the Word of the Holy Lord is twisted by those who refuse to read it right there as it is, in context, as it is written.
I believe that you will be most taken aback when the temple is literally built and you will have to adjust what you believe. Of course, when the temple is built, many will just say, "Oh well...that's not the temple that is being spoken of in Daniel, Revelation, or anywhere else."
2 Thessalonians 2 (New American Standard Bible)
Man of Lawlessness
1Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
5Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
6And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
13But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
14It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
16Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace,
17comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word.
This chapter speaks of apostasy. It speaks of a literal temple. It speaks of those who are deceived because they are unsaved.
You have claimed, Mrs B, that the apostasy and the abomination of desolation are the same thing. Clearly, taken in context, and with the other teachings on the abomination of desolation, that is a false claim. They are two separate things. There is already apostasy being tought to the body of believers now. Name it and claim it doctrines, new age garbage, and all sorts of venom being spewed forth in pulpits every Sunday across America. That is what happens when the Word of the Holy Lord is twisted by those who refuse to read it right there as it is, in context, as it is written.
I believe that you will be most taken aback when the temple is literally built and you will have to adjust what you believe. Of course, when the temple is built, many will just say, "Oh well...that's not the temple that is being spoken of in Daniel, Revelation, or anywhere else."
-
Salty Skipper - MODERATOR
- Posts: 18817
- Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:56 pm
by Mrs. B on Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:29 am
Bob......
The Measuring of the Temple.......is the total...or complete or fullness or finishing.....completion
We are the Temple that Jesus has built.....we are the House of God...we the church Make up the house of God.....
Ezekiel 40:1....In the five and twentieth year of Our Captivity, in the Beginning of the year,
in the tenth day of the month,
in the fourteenth year after that the City Was Smitten,
in the selfsame day....The Hand of the Lord was upon me, and brought me thither...
2.....In the Visions of God brought he me into the Land of Israel....
and set me upon a Very High Mountain...
VERY HIGH MOUNTAIN....
by which was as the frame of a City on the South...
3......And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a Man,
Whose Appearance was like the Appearance of Brass (Brass represent Judgment)
With a line of Flax in his hand, and a Measuring Reed;
and he stood in the gate...
4.....And the man said unto me......Son of Man....
Behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears,
and set thine heart upon all that I shall Shew Thee;
For to the Intent That I Might shew them unto thee art thou Brought Hither:
Declare All That Thou Seest to THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL......
Ezekiel 43:4......And the Glory of the Lord came into the house by the way of the Gate whose Prospect is toward the East...
5.....So the Spirit Took me up, and brought Me into the Inner Court:
and, behold, the Glory of the Lord Filled the HOUSE....
6.....And I heard Him Speaking Unto Me....Out of the House;
and the Man Stood by Me.
7......And he said unto me.....Son of Man, The Place of My Throne, and the Place of the Soles of My Feet, Where I Will Dwell in the Midst of the Children of Israel Forever,
And My Holy Name, Shall the House of Israel No More Defile, Neither they, nor their Kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.......
8.....In Their Setting of their threshold by My Thresholds, and their Post by My Posts, (or there was but a wall between me and them)
and the wall between me and them,
They have even defiled My Holy Name by their abominations that they have committed:
Wherefore I have Consumed them in Mine Anger.....
9.......NOW.... let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, Far from Me.....and I will Dwell in the Midst of Them Forever....
10.....Thou Son of Man....
SHEW THE HOUSE TO THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.......
That they may be ashamed of their iniquities:
and let them Measure the Pattern (or sum or number)
11.....And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the Form of the House, and the fashion thereof,.......
12....This is the Law of the House;
Upon the top of the Mountain the Whole limit thereof round about
SHALL BE MOST HOLY, BEHOLD, THIS IS THE LAW OF THE HOUSE....
The House that God showed Ezekiel is the Same house or City John saw...
Rev. 11:1....And there was given me a Reed like unto arod:
and the Angel stood, Saying....Rise,, and Meassusre the Temple of God...and the altar, and them that worship therein....
Rev. 21:10....And he carried me away in the spirit to a Great and High Mountain.....
and shewed me....That Great City, the Holy Jerusalem, decending out of Heaven from God,
11....Having the Glory of God: and her light was like unto a Stone Most Precious, even like a Jasper stone, clear as crystal;
17.....And he measured the wall thereof....an hundred and forty and four cubits.....According to the Measusre of a Man, that is of the angel
22.....And I saw No Temple Therein....
for The Lord God Almighty....and the Lamb are the Temple of it.....
27.....And there shall in no wise enter into It Any thing that defileth, Neither Whatsoever Worketh Abominaton, or Maketh a lie;
But they Which are Written in THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE.
Rev. 22:3.....And there shall be no more curse:
but the Throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it;
and His Servants shall Serve HIM:
4.....And they shall See His face; and His Name Shall be in Their Foreheads.....
We are the Body of Christ.....our Bodies are the Temple.....
Measure.....or count.....the (Palmoni Hebrew) perfect number or conplete)
bb
The Measuring of the Temple.......is the total...or complete or fullness or finishing.....completion
We are the Temple that Jesus has built.....we are the House of God...we the church Make up the house of God.....
Ezekiel 40:1....In the five and twentieth year of Our Captivity, in the Beginning of the year,
in the tenth day of the month,
in the fourteenth year after that the City Was Smitten,
in the selfsame day....The Hand of the Lord was upon me, and brought me thither...
2.....In the Visions of God brought he me into the Land of Israel....
and set me upon a Very High Mountain...
VERY HIGH MOUNTAIN....
by which was as the frame of a City on the South...
3......And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a Man,
Whose Appearance was like the Appearance of Brass (Brass represent Judgment)
With a line of Flax in his hand, and a Measuring Reed;
and he stood in the gate...
4.....And the man said unto me......Son of Man....
Behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears,
and set thine heart upon all that I shall Shew Thee;
For to the Intent That I Might shew them unto thee art thou Brought Hither:
Declare All That Thou Seest to THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL......
Ezekiel 43:4......And the Glory of the Lord came into the house by the way of the Gate whose Prospect is toward the East...
5.....So the Spirit Took me up, and brought Me into the Inner Court:
and, behold, the Glory of the Lord Filled the HOUSE....
6.....And I heard Him Speaking Unto Me....Out of the House;
and the Man Stood by Me.
7......And he said unto me.....Son of Man, The Place of My Throne, and the Place of the Soles of My Feet, Where I Will Dwell in the Midst of the Children of Israel Forever,
And My Holy Name, Shall the House of Israel No More Defile, Neither they, nor their Kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.......
8.....In Their Setting of their threshold by My Thresholds, and their Post by My Posts, (or there was but a wall between me and them)
and the wall between me and them,
They have even defiled My Holy Name by their abominations that they have committed:
Wherefore I have Consumed them in Mine Anger.....
9.......NOW.... let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, Far from Me.....and I will Dwell in the Midst of Them Forever....
10.....Thou Son of Man....
SHEW THE HOUSE TO THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.......
That they may be ashamed of their iniquities:
and let them Measure the Pattern (or sum or number)
11.....And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the Form of the House, and the fashion thereof,.......
12....This is the Law of the House;
Upon the top of the Mountain the Whole limit thereof round about
SHALL BE MOST HOLY, BEHOLD, THIS IS THE LAW OF THE HOUSE....
The House that God showed Ezekiel is the Same house or City John saw...
Rev. 11:1....And there was given me a Reed like unto arod:
and the Angel stood, Saying....Rise,, and Meassusre the Temple of God...and the altar, and them that worship therein....
Rev. 21:10....And he carried me away in the spirit to a Great and High Mountain.....
and shewed me....That Great City, the Holy Jerusalem, decending out of Heaven from God,
11....Having the Glory of God: and her light was like unto a Stone Most Precious, even like a Jasper stone, clear as crystal;
17.....And he measured the wall thereof....an hundred and forty and four cubits.....According to the Measusre of a Man, that is of the angel
22.....And I saw No Temple Therein....
for The Lord God Almighty....and the Lamb are the Temple of it.....
27.....And there shall in no wise enter into It Any thing that defileth, Neither Whatsoever Worketh Abominaton, or Maketh a lie;
But they Which are Written in THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE.
Rev. 22:3.....And there shall be no more curse:
but the Throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it;
and His Servants shall Serve HIM:
4.....And they shall See His face; and His Name Shall be in Their Foreheads.....
We are the Body of Christ.....our Bodies are the Temple.....
Measure.....or count.....the (Palmoni Hebrew) perfect number or conplete)
bb
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
by Mrs. B on Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:34 am
Bob......
The Measuring of the Temple.......is the total...or complete or fullness or finishing.....completion
We are the Temple that Jesus has built.....we are the House of God...we the church Make up the house of God.....
Ezekiel 40:1....In the five and twentieth year of Our Captivity, in the Beginning of the year,
in the tenth day of the month,
in the fourteenth year after that the City Was Smitten,
in the selfsame day....The Hand of the Lord was upon me, and brought me thither...
2.....In the Visions of God brought he me into the Land of Israel....
and set me upon a Very High Mountain...
VERY HIGH MOUNTAIN....
by which was as the frame of a City on the South...
3......And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a Man,
Whose Appearance was like the Appearance of Brass (Brass represent Judgment)
With a line of Flax in his hand, and a Measuring Reed;
and he stood in the gate...
4.....And the man said unto me......Son of Man....
Behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears,
and set thine heart upon all that I shall Shew Thee;
For to the Intent That I Might shew them unto thee art thou Brought Hither:
Declare All That Thou Seest to THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL......
Ezekiel 43:4......And the Glory of the Lord came into the house by the way of the Gate whose Prospect is toward the East...
5.....So the Spirit Took me up, and brought Me into the Inner Court:
and, behold, the Glory of the Lord Filled the HOUSE....
6.....And I heard Him Speaking Unto Me....Out of the House;
and the Man Stood by Me.
7......And he said unto me.....Son of Man, The Place of My Throne, and the Place of the Soles of My Feet, Where I Will Dwell in the Midst of the Children of Israel Forever,
And My Holy Name, Shall the House of Israel No More Defile, Neither they, nor their Kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.......
8.....In Their Setting of their threshold by My Thresholds, and their Post by My Posts, (or there was but a wall between me and them)
and the wall between me and them,
They have even defiled My Holy Name by their abominations that they have committed:
Wherefore I have Consumed them in Mine Anger.....
9.......NOW.... let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, Far from Me.....and I will Dwell in the Midst of Them Forever....
10.....Thou Son of Man....
SHEW THE HOUSE TO THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.......
That they may be ashamed of their iniquities:
and let them Measure the Pattern (or sum or number)
11.....And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the Form of the House, and the fashion thereof,.......
12....This is the Law of the House;
Upon the top of the Mountain the Whole limit thereof round about
SHALL BE MOST HOLY, BEHOLD, THIS IS THE LAW OF THE HOUSE....
The House that God showed Ezekiel is the Same house or City John saw...
Rev. 11:1....And there was given me a Reed like unto arod:
and the Angel stood, Saying....Rise,, and Meassusre the Temple of God...and the altar, and them that worship therein....
Rev. 21:10....And he carried me away in the spirit to a Great and High Mountain.....
and shewed me....That Great City, the Holy Jerusalem, decending out of Heaven from God,
11....Having the Glory of God: and her light was like unto a Stone Most Precious, even like a Jasper stone, clear as crystal;
17.....And he measured the wall thereof....an hundred and forty and four cubits.....According to the Measusre of a Man, that is of the angel
22.....And I saw No Temple Therein....
for The Lord God Almighty....and the Lamb are the Temple of it.....
27.....And there shall in no wise enter into It Any thing that defileth, Neither Whatsoever Worketh Abominaton, or Maketh a lie;
But they Which are Written in THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE.
Rev. 22:3.....And there shall be no more curse:
but the Throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it;
and His Servants shall Serve HIM:
4.....And they shall See His face; and His Name Shall be in Their Foreheads.....
We are the Body of Christ.....our Bodies are the Temple.....
Measure.....or count.....the (Palmoni Hebrew) perfect number or conplete)
bb
The Measuring of the Temple.......is the total...or complete or fullness or finishing.....completion
We are the Temple that Jesus has built.....we are the House of God...we the church Make up the house of God.....
Ezekiel 40:1....In the five and twentieth year of Our Captivity, in the Beginning of the year,
in the tenth day of the month,
in the fourteenth year after that the City Was Smitten,
in the selfsame day....The Hand of the Lord was upon me, and brought me thither...
2.....In the Visions of God brought he me into the Land of Israel....
and set me upon a Very High Mountain...
VERY HIGH MOUNTAIN....
by which was as the frame of a City on the South...
3......And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a Man,
Whose Appearance was like the Appearance of Brass (Brass represent Judgment)
With a line of Flax in his hand, and a Measuring Reed;
and he stood in the gate...
4.....And the man said unto me......Son of Man....
Behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears,
and set thine heart upon all that I shall Shew Thee;
For to the Intent That I Might shew them unto thee art thou Brought Hither:
Declare All That Thou Seest to THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL......
Ezekiel 43:4......And the Glory of the Lord came into the house by the way of the Gate whose Prospect is toward the East...
5.....So the Spirit Took me up, and brought Me into the Inner Court:
and, behold, the Glory of the Lord Filled the HOUSE....
6.....And I heard Him Speaking Unto Me....Out of the House;
and the Man Stood by Me.
7......And he said unto me.....Son of Man, The Place of My Throne, and the Place of the Soles of My Feet, Where I Will Dwell in the Midst of the Children of Israel Forever,
And My Holy Name, Shall the House of Israel No More Defile, Neither they, nor their Kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.......
8.....In Their Setting of their threshold by My Thresholds, and their Post by My Posts, (or there was but a wall between me and them)
and the wall between me and them,
They have even defiled My Holy Name by their abominations that they have committed:
Wherefore I have Consumed them in Mine Anger.....
9.......NOW.... let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, Far from Me.....and I will Dwell in the Midst of Them Forever....
10.....Thou Son of Man....
SHEW THE HOUSE TO THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.......
That they may be ashamed of their iniquities:
and let them Measure the Pattern (or sum or number)
11.....And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the Form of the House, and the fashion thereof,.......
12....This is the Law of the House;
Upon the top of the Mountain the Whole limit thereof round about
SHALL BE MOST HOLY, BEHOLD, THIS IS THE LAW OF THE HOUSE....
The House that God showed Ezekiel is the Same house or City John saw...
Rev. 11:1....And there was given me a Reed like unto arod:
and the Angel stood, Saying....Rise,, and Meassusre the Temple of God...and the altar, and them that worship therein....
Rev. 21:10....And he carried me away in the spirit to a Great and High Mountain.....
and shewed me....That Great City, the Holy Jerusalem, decending out of Heaven from God,
11....Having the Glory of God: and her light was like unto a Stone Most Precious, even like a Jasper stone, clear as crystal;
17.....And he measured the wall thereof....an hundred and forty and four cubits.....According to the Measusre of a Man, that is of the angel
22.....And I saw No Temple Therein....
for The Lord God Almighty....and the Lamb are the Temple of it.....
27.....And there shall in no wise enter into It Any thing that defileth, Neither Whatsoever Worketh Abominaton, or Maketh a lie;
But they Which are Written in THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE.
Rev. 22:3.....And there shall be no more curse:
but the Throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it;
and His Servants shall Serve HIM:
4.....And they shall See His face; and His Name Shall be in Their Foreheads.....
We are the Body of Christ.....our Bodies are the Temple.....
Measure.....or count.....the (Palmoni Hebrew) perfect number or conplete)
bb
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
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by Salty Skipper on Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:53 am
Scripture is clear, Mrs. B...
Our bodies are the temple, but there will be a literal temple. I think that perhaps you just don't want to see that. I don't mean that rudely, so please forgive me if it sounds like that.
Simple reading comprehention tells us that there is a difference between the two in scripture. I pray that you will read the scriptures, as they are, and pray about it.
Yes our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Yes there will be a temple that will be a building where the abomination of desolation is set up when the animal sacrifices are put to a stop.
Sincerely,
Salty
Our bodies are the temple, but there will be a literal temple. I think that perhaps you just don't want to see that. I don't mean that rudely, so please forgive me if it sounds like that.
Simple reading comprehention tells us that there is a difference between the two in scripture. I pray that you will read the scriptures, as they are, and pray about it.
Yes our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Yes there will be a temple that will be a building where the abomination of desolation is set up when the animal sacrifices are put to a stop.
Sincerely,
Salty
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Salty Skipper - MODERATOR
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We are One.....
by Mrs. B on Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:04 am
Paul wrote...
Ephesians 3:5.....Which in other ages was not made known unto the Sons of Man.....as it is Now Revealed unto His Holy Apostles and Prophets by the Spirit.....
6.....That the Gentiles should BE FELLOWHEIRS......AND THE SAME BODY.....AND PARTAKERS OF HIS PROMISE IN CHRIST....by the Gospel....
Ezekiel 47:22......And it SHALL COME TO PASS..... that ye shall divide it (land) by lot for an inheritance unto you, and TO THE STRANGERS that sojourn among you....which shall beget children among you:
and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the Children of Israel:
they shall have INHERITANCE WITH YOU AMONG THE TRIBES OF ISRAEL...
23......AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS....
that in what Tribe the Stranger Sojourneth,
There shall Ye Give Him His inheritance,
Saith the Lord God...
Rev. 7:9.....After this I beheld, and, Lo A Great Multitude, Which No Man could Number..........Of All Nations, and Kindreds, and People, and Tongues, Stoof Before the Throne......and Before the Lamb....Clothed with White robes, and Palms in their Hands:
10....And Cried with a Voice saying.....Salvation to Our God
which Sitteth upon the Throne and unto the Lamb......
Eph. 2:18......For through Him......We Both (Jew and Gentile) have access by One Spirit unto the Father....
19....Now therefore ye are no more Strangers and Foreigners,
but fellowcitizens with the Saints, and of the Household of God....
20.....And are BUILT UPON THE FOUNDATION....of the Apostles and Prophets, Jesus Christ Himself BEING THE CHIEF CORNER STONE:
21.....In Whom All the Building Fitly Framed together Groweth unto
AN HOLY TEMPLE IN THE LORD:
22.......In Whom ye also are builded Together for AN HABITATION OF GOD THROUGH THE SPIRIT.....
He has made both One.....
Well Glory......bb
Ephesians 3:5.....Which in other ages was not made known unto the Sons of Man.....as it is Now Revealed unto His Holy Apostles and Prophets by the Spirit.....
6.....That the Gentiles should BE FELLOWHEIRS......AND THE SAME BODY.....AND PARTAKERS OF HIS PROMISE IN CHRIST....by the Gospel....
Ezekiel 47:22......And it SHALL COME TO PASS..... that ye shall divide it (land) by lot for an inheritance unto you, and TO THE STRANGERS that sojourn among you....which shall beget children among you:
and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the Children of Israel:
they shall have INHERITANCE WITH YOU AMONG THE TRIBES OF ISRAEL...
23......AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS....
that in what Tribe the Stranger Sojourneth,
There shall Ye Give Him His inheritance,
Saith the Lord God...
Rev. 7:9.....After this I beheld, and, Lo A Great Multitude, Which No Man could Number..........Of All Nations, and Kindreds, and People, and Tongues, Stoof Before the Throne......and Before the Lamb....Clothed with White robes, and Palms in their Hands:
10....And Cried with a Voice saying.....Salvation to Our God
which Sitteth upon the Throne and unto the Lamb......
Eph. 2:18......For through Him......We Both (Jew and Gentile) have access by One Spirit unto the Father....
19....Now therefore ye are no more Strangers and Foreigners,
but fellowcitizens with the Saints, and of the Household of God....
20.....And are BUILT UPON THE FOUNDATION....of the Apostles and Prophets, Jesus Christ Himself BEING THE CHIEF CORNER STONE:
21.....In Whom All the Building Fitly Framed together Groweth unto
AN HOLY TEMPLE IN THE LORD:
22.......In Whom ye also are builded Together for AN HABITATION OF GOD THROUGH THE SPIRIT.....
He has made both One.....
Well Glory......bb
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
by OBXBob on Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:06 am
Mrs. B.,
Thanks for the verses.
Let's take another look at these verses from Revelation 11:
Revelation 11
1. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
At least 3 things are appear to be immediately obvious to me:
1) John was given a reed like unto a rod for MEASURING. This means that the thing which is to be measured will be many reeds in length. We see this from other examples in the Bible. He is to be measuring a physical object of some sort that has dimensions and occupies space.
2) This is a Temple on the Earth, and it is a pre-millennial kingdom Temple. Notice that the John is only instructed to measure the Temple itself...not the court. And why not the court? Because it has been given unto the Gentiles, and the Gentiles shall tread under foot for 42 months.
3) This occurs at the same time as the two witnesses are on earth in the 70th week. Note from verse 2 the reference to the court being under control of the Gentiles for 42 months. 42 months x 360 days (prophetic calendar) is 1,260 days. Now, look at verse 3: immediately after the Temple measurement verse, and the fact that the Court will be under Gentile control for 42 months or 1,260 days, we see that the two witnesses will testify for 1,260 days!
IMO, the evidence for the presence of a physical temple is overwhelming...not to mention the verses in Matthew 24, 2 Thessalonians, and Daniel which also verify this. These verses in Revelation 11, IMO, put the final nail in the coffin in the theory that tries to spiritualize the Temple. We are told there will be a Temple, which can be measured by a reed, that will be present the same time as the two witnesses, and is under Gentile control...but only for 42 months.
YBIC,
Bob
Thanks for the verses.
Let's take another look at these verses from Revelation 11:
Revelation 11
1. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
At least 3 things are appear to be immediately obvious to me:
1) John was given a reed like unto a rod for MEASURING. This means that the thing which is to be measured will be many reeds in length. We see this from other examples in the Bible. He is to be measuring a physical object of some sort that has dimensions and occupies space.
2) This is a Temple on the Earth, and it is a pre-millennial kingdom Temple. Notice that the John is only instructed to measure the Temple itself...not the court. And why not the court? Because it has been given unto the Gentiles, and the Gentiles shall tread under foot for 42 months.
3) This occurs at the same time as the two witnesses are on earth in the 70th week. Note from verse 2 the reference to the court being under control of the Gentiles for 42 months. 42 months x 360 days (prophetic calendar) is 1,260 days. Now, look at verse 3: immediately after the Temple measurement verse, and the fact that the Court will be under Gentile control for 42 months or 1,260 days, we see that the two witnesses will testify for 1,260 days!
IMO, the evidence for the presence of a physical temple is overwhelming...not to mention the verses in Matthew 24, 2 Thessalonians, and Daniel which also verify this. These verses in Revelation 11, IMO, put the final nail in the coffin in the theory that tries to spiritualize the Temple. We are told there will be a Temple, which can be measured by a reed, that will be present the same time as the two witnesses, and is under Gentile control...but only for 42 months.
YBIC,
Bob
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