Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

News about the Temple Mount and/or rebuilding the Jewish Temple.

Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby st louis steve on Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:23 pm

Thanks to Trump: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Time in 2,000 Years

By Adam Eliyahu Berkowitz February 27, 2020 , 9:24 am

https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/1458 ... 000-years/

Moshe replied, “We will all go, young and old: we will go with our sons and daughters, our flocks and herds; for we must observe Hashem’s festival.” Exodus 10:9 (The Israel Bible™)
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby GodsStudent on Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:13 am

:snack:
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Loop on Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:15 am

:snack:
Psalms 91
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Sonbeam on Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:07 pm

And if it happens, it will be an abomination unto the Lord.



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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby 4givenmuch on Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:45 pm

Ezekial mentions animal sacrifices in millenial kingdom....Thoughts?
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Sonbeam on Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:20 pm

Hi 4givenmuch,


In regards to Old Testament scriptures they are to be interpreted in light of the complete revelation that came through our Lord Jesus Christ. (John 1:17)

Christians cannot interpret the OT as a closed cannon. As if Christ had never come and the New Testament had not been written, and Christ’s Word had not been recorded.

This is what Judaism is doing as it continues to reject Jesus Christ and His Word as written in the NT.

As to how Christ and His sacrifice for all is to be remembered, He Himself told us how.

Luke 22:17-20

17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”

19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.




1 Corinthians 11:24-26 (NIV)

24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.

” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.




Blessings,

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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby GodsStudent on Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:25 am

oops
Last edited by GodsStudent on Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby GodsStudent on Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:26 am

GodsStudent wrote:
Sonbeam wrote:And if it happens, it will be an abomination unto the Lord.sonbeam
[/

Animal sacrifices will be ceased is a part of end time scripture, so I am watching for it to happen, and we all must realize that the Jews rejected Christ. This rejection will also be rectified in the end time, so it's not the end of the story that at this time, these things will begin again in Israel. I rejoice for all to know and love Christ.
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Ready1 on Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:44 pm

GodsStudent wrote:
GodsStudent wrote:
Sonbeam wrote:And if it happens, it will be an abomination unto the Lord.sonbeam
[/

Animal sacrifices will be ceased is a part of end time scripture, so I am watching for it to happen, and we all must realize that the Jews rejected Christ. This rejection will also be rectified in the end time, so it's not the end of the story that at this time, these things will begin again in Israel. I rejoice for all to know and love Christ.


But there will be an altar in the Millennial temple. :grin: :grin: :grin:

Eze 47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.


...and I think that there is a scripture which talks about it's use but I can't pull it up right now.
Just observing.

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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby GodsStudent on Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:38 pm

:shock: Ready1....I did not know that there would be an altar in the Millennial Temple. This will be for animal sacrifices?
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Ready1 on Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:09 pm

Yes, and somewhere I remember a scripture that talks about that. It may take awhile but I'll try to pull it up. :grin:
Just observing.

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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Jay Ross on Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:53 am

Ready1 wrote:
But there will be an altar in the Millennial temple. :grin: :grin: :grin:

Eze 47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.


...and I think that there is a scripture which talks about it's use but I can't pull it up right now.


The Ez 47:1-12 prophecy speaks of the 4,000 year period that will separate the time that God inhabits Solomon's Temple and the end of the Millennium Age when the river flows over the escarpment into the valley below to heal the land/sea.

In Luke 14:28 Jesus tells a parable about a man who wants to build a tower, i.e. a Temple, the same sort of tower that is also mentioned in Matt 21:33 and Mark 12:1, but that the man will not have the means, money or ability to finish the project and he will become the laughing stock of the nations around him as that come up against him because he dared to build a tower/temple unto the Lord, admittedly, in his own strength. Jesus then went on to tell us that a King will come and judge the nations in the sight of Jerusalem and that Israel will consider their position and opt out to seek that Kings terms of peace. In the second parable, Jesus is describing the Judgement of the Nations at Armageddon. It is Paul in Romans 11 25-26 that tells us that after the time of the Gentile Heathen has run its full course of 2,300 years, that all of Israel will be saved.

The message in Luke 14:28ff from Jesus is that although the Israelites will be seeking out God, the building of a replacement Temple, will not cut it for God and that God will allow the Heathen Gentiles to go up against Jerusalem to stop the temple construction from being completed.

For Israel to be redeemed, they will have to accept God's terms of repentance and to repent of their previous and continued idolatrous worship of and in the Temple.

Some of the signs that we have seen in the last 110 years. The first sign will be the remembrance of Babylon with the establishment of the nation of Iraq over the Land of Babylon/the Chaldeans in 1926, the legs of the Statue of Daniel 2. The second sign is the partitioning of Jerusalem into three separately controlled areas in 1948 as described in Rev 16:17-21during periods of great turmoil upon the earth. The third sign that we have witnessed is described in Daniel 11 32-35: -
Dan 11:32-35: - 32 Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. 33 And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. 34 Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. 35 And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.

The time of the end spoken of here is the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers of the first two ages upon their children and their children's children during the third and the fourth (age), which in my humble understanding still has another 24 or so years to run before the visitation of the fathers' iniquities will end.

The fourth Sign that we witnessed in 2001, was the three foul frog like spirits that went out to all the world doing signs and wonders to begin the process of drawing all of the kings of the earth together in one place at Armageddon to go up against Jerusalem. This event is told to us in the sixth Bowl judgement of Revelation 16:12-16

The count down to the end of this present age still has 24 or so years to run before the judgement of the nations by God on the earth will begin as foretold in Isa 24:21-22, and the war in heaven ends.

Ezekiel 34:11-16: - 11 'For thus says the Lord God: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord God. 16 "I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."


When we understand the metaphorical language in this passage, we will understand that God will bring them into their own fertile soil and will teach them about God's statutes that will come down as a stone from heaven and grows into the highest mountain (i.e. religion) in all of the earth, where they are found in the valleys and in all of the inhabited places of the whole earth.

The true Israelites who are redeemed and enter into the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the Nations Covenant, will then fulfil God's Promise to Abraham that his descendants will become a blessing to all of the inhabitants of the earth.

The need, in God's eyes, to rebuild the temple is simply just not there.

Shalom
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Ready1 on Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:14 am

Aha! Just as I thought, GodsStudent! Multiple references!!!

Jeremiah:
Jer 33:14 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
Jer 33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
Jer 33:16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.
Jer 33:17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
Jer 33:18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.


Zechariah:
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.


Isaiah:
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.


And of course the "Big One"
Eze 45:16 All the people of the land shall give this oblation for the prince in Israel.
Eze 45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
Eze 45:18 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary:
Eze 45:19 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court.
Eze 45:20 And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erreth, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house.
Eze 45:21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.
Eze 45:22 And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock for a sin offering.
Eze 45:23 And seven days of the feast he shall prepare a burnt offering to the LORD, seven bullocks and seven rams without blemish daily the seven days; and a kid of the goats daily for a sin offering.
Eze 45:24 And he shall prepare a meat offering of an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and an hin of oil for an ephah.
Eze 45:25 In the seventh month, in the fifteenth day of the month, shall he do the like in the feast of the seven days, according to the sin offering, according to the burnt offering, and according to the meat offering, and according to the oil.

Eze 46:2 And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening.
Eze 46:3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths and in the new moons.
Eze 46:4 And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.
Eze 46:5 And the meat offering shall be an ephah for a ram, and the meat offering for the lambs as he shall be able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.
Eze 46:6 And in the day of the new moon it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish.
Eze 46:7 And he shall prepare a meat offering, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.

Eze 46:12 Now when the prince shall prepare a voluntary burnt offering or peace offerings voluntarily unto the LORD, one shall then open him the gate that looketh toward the east, and he shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, as he did on the sabbath day: then he shall go forth; and after his going forth one shall shut the gate.
Eze 46:13 Thou shalt daily prepare a burnt offering unto the LORD of a lamb of the first year without blemish: thou shalt prepare it every morning.
Eze 46:15 Thus shall they prepare the lamb, and the meat offering, and the oil, every morning for a continual burnt offering.


There is always the question of "Why burnt offerings in the Millineum?"

I cannot tell you for sure but my opinion is this. Before Jesus came, sacrifices were offered in anticipation of a coming Redeemer. Sin was rolled back for another year in anticipation of the time that God would fulfill his promise to "bruise the serpents head" to mother Eve in the Garden. And during this period every man had to realize for himself how flawed and imperfect that he was. Sacrifices pointed to a Redeemer from God who would make the ultimate sacrifice for us that we could not make for ourselves.

In our age, none of that is required. And our world simply does not think or care about Sin, Atonement, or Redemption. A few, perhaps, but "Out of sight, out of mind!"

However there is coming a day when Jesus, the Mighty God/Man who has accomplished all through His incarnation, life, death and resurrection will come to rule over the whole earth. And we are never to forget what He has done. So just as sacrifices pointed forward to a coming Redeemer in time past, sacrifices will point back to what our Redeemer did for us in the coming time in the future. In any case, we will never forget with such a graphic illustration.
Just observing.

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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Jericho on Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:30 am

Ready1 wrote:However there is coming a day when Jesus, the Mighty God/Man who has accomplished all through His incarnation, life, death and resurrection will come to rule over the whole earth. And we are never to forget what He has done.


This is probably the reason why Jesus kept the visible wounds of the crucifixion after His resurrection. If He wanted He could have had a perfect resurrected body, but he kept the wounds as a reminder or memorial of what had transpired.
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby GodsStudent on Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:00 pm

:shock: Such a beautiful thing is the Word of God. I honestly have never realized what these scriptures were talking about, but on this fine Wednesday afternoon, with the rain pelting on my rooftop and my kitty cat sitting on my desk beside me, I am covered in chill bumps and in perfect awe of our Redeemer, blessed be His Name indeed.

Thank you for the teaching!!!
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Jay Ross on Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:03 pm

Hello

If Jesus provided, as foretold in Daniel 9:24b, the sacrifice that is now the only sacrifice needed for the redemption of our sins, that has brought everlasting righteousness, then why do we look forward to another temple being built so that the "Temple Sacrifices" for "Sin," can be resumed?

Was not Christ's willing death on the cross, 2,000 or so years ago, sufficient for us to accept? Are we trying to gain our redemption on our terms and not on God's terms?

Either we believe that we have already been redeemed or we reject the redemption of Christ on the cross.

Sadly, it seems to me that we all have missed the importance of Christ's salvation work during His first Advent.

If God, because Abraham believed, counted Abraham as righteous, then why do we need to do anything but believe, that Christ's death on the cross during His first Advent is all that we need.

Is this not why Christ called out just before He died on the cross, "It is finished!", yet in the posts above we are still yeaning for an earthly temple for our sins to be forgiven in.

Does God really require another temple to be built for the salvation process to be completed?

Will not the Assembly of the Saints be considered a Temple, after we, the saints, receive our inheritance, through which we will sing our praise and worship of God, the Father.

Oh well, each to his own belief system and understanding.

Shalom

PS: - have we yet grasped the intent of the Metaphorical passages or have we turned the message into meaning something else?
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Ready1 on Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:44 pm

If Jesus provided, as foretold in Daniel 9:24b, the sacrifice that is now the only sacrifice needed for the redemption of our sins, that has brought everlasting righteousness, then why do we look forward to another temple being built so that the "Temple Sacrifices" for "Sin," can be resumed?


That is certainly NOT why I look forward to a future Temple. I look forward to a future temple because the passages that I have shared tell me that there will be a temple in the future and that Jesus, the Branch, the Lord of Hosts, the Lord, the Prince can be found there as well. I am certainly not looking for any other Redeemer than my Lord who has lived and died and been resurrected.

Was not Christ's willing death on the cross, 2,000 or so years ago, sufficient for us to accept?


Of course it was.

Are we trying to gain our redemption on our terms and not on God's terms?


Looking forward to a future temple has nothing to do with our redemption.

Either we believe that we have already been redeemed or we reject the redemption of Christ on the cross.


Yes! A phrase we can agree upon.

Sadly, it seems to me that we all have missed the importance of Christ's salvation work during His first Advent.


No that is not true.

If God, because Abraham believed, counted Abraham as righteous, then why do we need to do anything but believe, that Christ's death on the cross during His first Advent is all that we need.


No one is saying anything contrary to your statement.

Is this not why Christ called out just before He died on the cross, "It is finished!", yet in the posts above we are still yeaning for an earthly temple for our sins to be forgiven in.


This is a straw man argument in that NO ONE indicates yearning for "an earthly temple for our sins to be forgiven in."

Does God really require another temple to be built for the salvation process to be completed?


Of course not, but He does say that there will be an earthly temple.

Will not the Assembly of the Saints be considered a Temple, after we, the saints, receive our inheritance, through which we will sing our praise and worship of God, the Father.


While we are indeed the temple of the Holy Spirit, that is certainly not the temple that the above passages reference.

Oh well, each to his own belief system and understanding.
FulfilledProphecy.com allows for that too.

PS: - have we yet grasped the intent of the Metaphorical passages or have we turned the message into meaning something else?


This is probably the crux of the difference in understanding. What you view as Metaphorical others view as literal. There can be no harmony of understanding when the basis of our understanding is so different.
Just observing.

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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Jay Ross on Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:11 am

Ready1 wrote:
PS: - have we yet grasped the intent of the Metaphorical passages or have we turned the message into meaning something else?


This is probably the crux of the difference in understanding. What you view as Metaphorical others view as literal. There can be no harmony of understanding when the basis of our understanding is so different.


You are so right, the Israelites certainly looked on the scriptures in a literal manner and in doing so they missed so much.

Even when God plainly told them that their predominate iniquity would be idolatrous worship, they did not believe that they were sinning at all as they attempted to hide it from God, but God saw it and it broke His heart.

God promised Abraham, His Earth and that if he, and his descendants, walked its length and breath, then they would inherit the earth that they were told to walk in. The Nation of Israel did not understand what it meant to be holy or to walk the length or breadth of God's earth, and as a result they abandoned God's Earth and it became devastated and desolate of people, as they turned away from God to worship idols.

During Jeremiah's time of prophecy, the Temple had become an idol for them to control and worship.

Are we any better today?

Shalom
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Ready1 on Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:48 pm

Jay Ross wrote:
Ready1 wrote:
PS: - have we yet grasped the intent of the Metaphorical passages or have we turned the message into meaning something else?


This is probably the crux of the difference in understanding. What you view as Metaphorical others view as literal. There can be no harmony of understanding when the basis of our understanding is so different.


You are so right, the Israelites certainly looked on the scriptures in a literal manner and in doing so they missed so much.

Even when God plainly told them that their predominate iniquity would be idolatrous worship, they did not believe that they were sinning at all as they attempted to hide it from God, but God saw it and it broke His heart.

God promised Abraham, His Earth and that if he, and his descendants, walked its length and breath, then they would inherit the earth that they were told to walk in. The Nation of Israel did not understand what it meant to be holy or to walk the length or breadth of God's earth, and as a result they abandoned God's Earth and it became devastated and desolate of people, as they turned away from God to worship idols.

During Jeremiah's time of prophecy, the Temple had become an idol for them to control and worship.

Are we any better today?

Shalom


And yet, Jay, God's plan was bigger even than Israel's disobedience! God knew when He chose Israel that they were nothing more than flawed humanity, baked dirt if you please. And yet still, he made unconditional promises to Israel which have not yet been fulfilled. Most of us accept that truth. Furthermore, we accept the fact that the fulfillment of these promises in the Holy Scriptures will still be fulfilled in a yet-to-come period of time.

It is true that obedience brings blessing and disobedience brings discipline. And it is true that time after time, year in and year out, king in and king out, Israel failed to be what God had desired for her to be. But Jay, that is no different than us today. We all fail and none of us has the ability to satisfy God's perfection. And for that very reason, Jesus had to come to the earth incarnate, to live, to die, and to be resurrected so that HE might satisfy Gods just requirements for us, since we have no ability to do it for ourselves. And because OT Israel was just as flawed as we are, he came for them as well. We say it this way: He came for all humanity.

The error of Israel was NOT literal thinking. The error of Israel was sin. The fact of the matter is that God's unconditional promises will yet be fulfilled. Even all those that He conditioned upon himself will all be fulfilled. And that is why we look into the prophecies, to see the possibilities for fulfillment in our time frame.

Will we be right? Some of us may be. Many of us will not be. But that is certainly no reason to suggest that Jesus is not going to fulfill the scriptures which have spoken of Israel, the Church, and unbelieving Gentile nations. Otherwise God would be a liar, and we know that that is impossible. :grin:
Just observing.

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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Jay Ross on Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:37 pm

Ready1 wrote:And yet, Jay, God's plan was bigger even than Israel's disobedience! God knew when He chose Israel that they were nothing more than flawed humanity, baked dirt if you please. And yet still, he made unconditional promises to Israel which have not yet been fulfilled. Most of us accept that truth. Furthermore, we accept the fact that the fulfillment of these promises in the Holy Scriptures will still be fulfilled in a yet-to-come period of time.

It is true that obedience brings blessing and disobedience brings discipline. And it is true that time after time, year in and year out, king in and king out, Israel failed to be what God had desired for her to be. But Jay, that is no different than us today. We all fail and none of us has the ability to satisfy God's perfection. And for that very reason, Jesus had to come to the earth incarnate, to live, to die, and to be resurrected so that HE might satisfy Gods just requirements for us, since we have no ability to do it for ourselves. And because OT Israel was just as flawed as we are, he came for them as well. We say it this way: He came for all humanity.

The error of Israel was NOT literal thinking. The error of Israel was sin. The fact of the matter is that God's unconditional promises will yet be fulfilled. Even all those that He conditioned upon himself will all be fulfilled. And that is why we look into the prophecies, to see the possibilities for fulfillment in our time frame.

Will we be right? Some of us may be. Many of us will not be. But that is certainly no reason to suggest that Jesus is not going to fulfill the scriptures which have spoken of Israel, the Church, and unbelieving Gentile nations. Otherwise God would be a liar, and we know that that is impossible. :grin:


In Luke 14:28ff, Jesus tells us that Israel will attempt to rebuild the Temple, but that they will not have the mans to complete the task. Jesus also indicates that the Gathering of the Nations at Armageddon will also occur shortly afterwards, as the Heathen Nations attempt to come once more to Jerusalem to trample the Sanctuary and Hosts of God. Jesus also tells us/indicates to us, that For Israel to have peace that they will have to accept Jesus' terms of peace, while he is Judging the Kings of the earth on the earth.

So even though the fanatical religious Israelites and Christians believers, that there is a need for a Temple to be built before the start of the Millennium Age, Jesus' Prophecy in Luke 14:28ff, tells us that it will not be completed as Israel will not have the means and eventually the will to do so.

In a previous post, I spell out four prophecy fulfilments that have occurred over the past 110 years that indicate that we are nearing the end of this present age.

I agree that the attempt to rebuild the Temple by Israel in our near future is a confirming sign that the end of this present age will be very near.

Just as the return of some of Abraham's dependants as foretold by God in Gen 15:16 in 1948 is a sign post on which we can estimate when the end of this present age will occur, if we based our estimation on the lesson we can learn from the Fig Tree that Jesus prophesised in Matt 24:32.

The question is, "Does God require a Temple in Jerusalem to be built so that the Israelites can worship Him their, when the OT prophecies concerning God Gathering the Israelites to Himself does not imply that they also have to return to the Land of Canaan and in particular Jerusalem.

Daniel 11:30-35: - "So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices,{70 AD} and place there the abomination of desolation {690-700BC}. 32 Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. 33 And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. 34 Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. 35 And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.


When people join others by intrigue, it does not mean that they are there to help them gain their objectives, but that rather, they will ensure that their objectives will be achieved and maybe that will mean that the objectives of the people that they have joined themselves to will also be realised, but not necessarily for their benefit.

We all may read the scriptures and come to an understanding of what the content message may be, but that does not give any one of us understanding that is beyond question.

The real question that we all need to be able to answer is, "Have we come to the same understanding as the author of the OT prophecies? That is to say, has our understanding of the message content of the original prophecy words, produced the same outcome as what the original prophecy said would occur?"

Some speak with confidence, others with much chest beating, but we all must be patient to wait for the confirmation of our respective understanding's correctness. Sadly, that often only happens with hindsight.

Shalom
Jay Ross
 
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Ready1 on Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:11 pm

Jay, I disagree with you because I believe you have erroneously used a scripture that is talking about counting the cost of discipleship and said that it says that "Jesus tells us that Israel will attempt to rebuild the Temple." That is simply not correct. Jesus says to count the cost of discipleship then he gives two examples of counting the cost. Here is the passage

The Cost of Discipleship
Luk 14:25 A large crowd was following Jesus. He turned around and said to them,
Luk 14:26 "If you want to be My disciple, you must hate everyone else by comparison—your father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even your own life. Otherwise, you cannot be My disciple.
Luk 14:27 And if you do not carry your own cross and follow Me, you cannot be My disciple.


Example 1: Count the cost of being a disciple: Beginning construction without enough money to finish.

Luk 14:28 "But don't begin until you count the cost. For who would begin construction of a building without first calculating the cost to see if there is enough money to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Otherwise, you might complete only the foundation before running out of money, and then everyone would laugh at you.
Luk 14:30 They would say, 'There's the person who started that building and couldn't afford to finish it!'



Example 2: Count the cost of being a disciple: Going to war against someone stronger than you.

Luk 14:31 "Or what king would go to war against another king without first sitting down with his counselors to discuss whether his army of 10,000 could defeat the 20,000 soldiers marching against him?
Luk 14:32 And if he can't, he will send a delegation to discuss terms of peace while the enemy is still far away.
Luk 14:33 So you cannot become My disciple without giving up everything you own.


We don't have to carry this on any farther...
Just observing.

E.
Ready1
 
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Jay Ross on Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:20 pm

Ready1 wrote:Jay, I disagree with you because I believe you have erroneously used a scripture that is talking about counting the cost of discipleship and said that it says that "Jesus tells us that Israel will attempt to rebuild the Temple." That is simply not correct. Jesus says to count the cost of discipleship then he gives two examples of counting the cost. Here is the passage

<snip>

We don't have to carry this on any farther..


Ready1, you are claiming that I am the only one in this banter that is using scripture erroneously. I would suggest that you are also using the scriptures to erroneously support your belief system concerning the imminent rebuilding of the temple and pointing the finger at me claiming that I am wrong because I have come to a different conclusion on the verses I have referenced.

If we consider Gen 12:1, and draw the wrong conclusion as the translators have done by holding to the tradition of the Jewish fathers that God offered Abraham land and did not give him a promise of inheriting the earth, then our conclusions will be very different because of our respective starting points are different to start with.

In a post above, you stated that we have arrived at very different understandings because I am happy to look at the metaphorical language where appropriate, whereas, you prefer the literal reading of the scriptures as a whole.

I accept that I could be just as wrong as you may be in our respective approach and understanding of scripture.

I also know that a literal understanding of scripture does not cut it with respect to understanding the End Time prophecies.

Sadly your opinion as to what you believe is the right understanding of scripture, does not confirm that you are right. It only confirms what you believe and nothing else. That in and of itself is not a justifiable reason to claim that I have come to the wrong conclusions. It only suggests that we do have very different understanding from scriptures and only time will confirm who has the better understanding.

I am happy to desist with this interaction with you if that will make you feel more comfortable about your belief system, but I would suggest that you do not ignore the differing points of view that we all put forward and give them the justice they all deserve.

Shalom
Jay Ross
 
Posts: 1683
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:11 am

Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Ready1 on Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:47 pm

Jay, I disagree with you because I believe you have erroneously used a scripture that is talking about counting the cost of discipleship and said that it says that "Jesus tells us that Israel will attempt to rebuild the Temple."


Please remember Jay, that I said "I believe that your have erroneously used a scripture..." That is my opinion. You may have your opinion but kindly state that it is your opinion. :grin:
Just observing.

E.
Ready1
 
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Jay Ross on Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:56 pm

Ready1 wrote:Please remember Jay, that I said "I believe that your have erroneously used a scripture..." That is my opinion. You may have your opinion but kindly state that it is your opinion. :grin:


Ready 1, if you read the Luke 14:25-35 passage you will notice that it ends with this: -

Luke 14:25b: - He who has ears to hear, let him hear!


What does it mean to have "ears to hear"?

When you are having a conversation with a person, do you turn away from that person so that you only hear what they are saying literally? Or do you look at that person and "hear"/read their body language as well to get a fuller understanding what they are saying, because their body language may be giving a very different picture when added to the words being spoken.

Humanly added headings and references to other verses on the same "topic" erroneously focuses our mind to see a particular perspective in the passage of scripture we are reading.

This passage, where the audience were Israelites, who where following Jesus at that time, and who were desiring a "military style release" from the Roman Empire, where clamouring to be Christ's disciples and Jesus set the ground rules of what it meant to be a disciple.

The "terms of peace" requires that a person gives everything up that they hold dearly to become subject to the person who is offering the terms of peace.

Building a tower, like the tower of Babel for example, is trying to reach God in their own strength and on our terms, and if a person does not have the means to complete the building of the tower, then that person will look foolish in the eyes of all those around him.

In 1948, Israel returned to the Land of Canaan in their own strength, as God had prophesised in Gen 15:16, around 4,000 or so years after the birth of Isaac in an attempt to reclaim their "Promised Land," which had been stripped from them previously by God. The Promised Land as defined in Genesis 15:17-21 was a confirming sign promise that God's promised to give to the descendants of Abraham, that their inheritance in the distant future was the whole earth, and that they would receive this inheritance through their faith in God.

The desire to rebuild the temple is the Israelites attempt to reconnect with God, but in reality God is only listening for them to repent of their continuous idolatrous behaviour and their acceptance of God's terms of Peace.

It is their acceptance of God's terms, like the "Christians" acceptance through faith of God's terms of peace that Israel ensure the redemption of all of Israel.

This passage is not about the "cost" of becoming a disciple, but rather it is about what we must be prepared to do to become an acceptable citizen of the earth in our distant future.

The question that we need to honestly answer is, "Does God require the rebuilding of the Temple by Abraham's descendants, before He will redeem them?" It is my Humble Opinion that many people erroneously believe that this is the case.

Just like the leper prince in the OT, wanted something more difficult to do to be cleansed of literacy, that the easy requirement of having faith in the "promise" of being healed by washing in the River Jordan, did not cut if for that official until a servant encouraged Him to do so.

Are we encouraging the Nation of Israel to have faith in God's promise of redemption on His terms of their repentance of their iniquities again Him. Or is that too simple for us "Christians" to graciously accept?

That is the terms of the King who, at the time that He is observed by the other leader of the Israelite nation, is for them to repent of their iniquities and to turn once more back to worshipping God. Something that we, "Christians," know does not require a Temple to do.

Shalom
Jay Ross
 
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Ready1 on Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:11 am

:grin:
Just observing.

E.
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Re: Pascal Lamb could be Sacrificed on Temple Mount for first Ti

Postby Jay Ross on Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:32 pm

Ready1 wrote::grin:


ROFL :mrgreen:
Jay Ross
 
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