Division of Israel

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Division of Israel

Postby extravagantchristian on Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:08 pm

There's been alot of talk lately of Israel going back to the pre-67 borders, and losing Jerusalem as capital. I'm just wondering how that might happen, and what role will the anti-christ play?

Back in December 2014 the US vote blocked Palestinian statehood, but Obama said that in the future he might not vote the same way. So, it's starting to look possible that Israel will be forced back to pre-67 borders that way.

BUT The Bible says, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies know that it's desolation is near. So why would armies surround Jerusalem if they were willingly giving up their land?

And what about the 7 year peace covenant? How would that fit into a UN vote?

It seems to me like the seals will be opened in response to the division of the land, (zech 1, i will send my horsemen to terrify the nations who scattered judah) but how can the rider on the white horse divide the land if the seal is broken after the division?

Couple more questions:
Am I right in thinking that Jesus will return 42 months after the land is divided? (Rev 11 and the gentiles will trample the holy city for 42 months)

And is it right that Jesus will return 42 months after the AOD (Rev 12 and he will be given power to continue for 42 months)

Also is there a verse that says the Great Tribulation will last for 42 months?

Also, Is the first seal the AOD?
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Re: Division of Israel

Postby shorttribber on Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:11 pm

:grin: All of those questions are answered if a "shorttrib" is in view :grin:

Have you looked into "shortrib/prewrath" to see if those questions can be answered EC?
They can......just say'n
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Division of Israel

Postby 1whowaits on Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:25 pm

EC, those question could also be answered in the full 70th week view. Zech 1 appears to indicate that when the gentile nations divide Israel, Judah and Jerusalem, God becomes angry and sends 4 'craftsmen' to terrify and overthrow the gentile 'horns'. It is not clear who the craftsmen are but as Zech 1 had earlier discussed 4 horsemen consistent with the 4 horsemen of Rev, it may be that the 4 craftsmen are indeed the 4 horsemen of Rev.

In Rev 6 the horsemen again appear to be discussed and are described as 'spirits' that are restrained by God and then let loose. It may then be that the 4 horsemen are not individual people but 'spirits' or evil tendencies of men that have been somewhat restrained by God and are allowed to come to full fruition, leading to war, conquest, economic domination, and plague.

Which is consistent with what Jesus describes in Matt 24 and in Luke as the beginning of birthpangs, nation against nation, ethnic group against ethnic group, famine and pestilence.

So what we may be approaching as Israel is being divided is the beginning of birthpangs, a period of destruction that may preceed and lead into the 70th week.

When Israel is divided she will not willingly accept such an agreement unless security gurantees were given by the gentile leaders and nations. Israel would lose the Golan, Gaza, the West bank and even much or all of Jerusalem. If this were to occur much of the periphery of Israel would be lost, she would dwell in security (guaranteed by other nations), in the center of the land (after losing the periphery), the condition of Israel found in Ezek 38 prior to Gog-magog.

After the destruction at Gog-Magog and fire falling on Magog and the coastlands, the nations will feel the heavy hand of God upon them (all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay upon them..), which could be what is described in Zech 1, the nations are terrified and overthrown.

In Ezek 39 a 7 year period follows Gog-Magog suggesting that the event may usher in the 70th week. After an event like Gog-Magog and God's rescue of Israel, Israel would likely rebuild the temple and renew or strengthen the Old Covenant (which was to be done every 7 years according to Moses), clearing the way for the AOD by the AC 3.5 years later.
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Re: Division of Israel

Postby kirthril on Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:27 pm

There's been alot of talk lately of Israel going back to the pre-67 borders, and losing Jerusalem as capital. I'm just wondering how that might happen, and what role will the anti-christ play?

Israel will never lose Jerusalem as its capital and the jews will be in it up until the very last day. The bible indicates that Jerusalem is very much still in Israeli control when the AC invades. Thus "half shall be killed and half taken away into captivity, the women ravished...". When Christ returns there is still a small remnant fighting extinction holed up in the old city, which is why Jesus has to crack the mountain open to provide a way to escape.

Back in December 2014 the US vote blocked Palestinian statehood, but Obama said that in the future he might not vote the same way. So, it's starting to look possible that Israel will be forced back to pre-67 borders that way.
They might go back to those borders yes, but I think they will retain control of Jerusalem. Obama will be out of office so what he says is irrelevant.

BUT The Bible says, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies know that it's desolation is near. So why would armies surround Jerusalem if they were willingly giving up their land?
You assume Israel willingly gives it up. Satan through the AC wants Jerusalem which is still in Israeli control. The AC is full of confidence after destroying the strongest military in Africa, Egypt. It was never about peace and security, it is all a set up for annihilation. The worlds gov'ts know full well Israel will be defenseless going back to 67' borders. Truth is, they just do not give a .... *ahem* they don't care.

And what about the 7 year peace covenant? How would that fit into a UN vote?
Bible doesn't say peace agreement. And almost immediately after the covenant with many is confirmed the AC goes to war with Egypt. The covenant might be a ceasefire, a nuclear weapons inspection forte, sanctions, or maybe a military alliance of nations. As for the UN, the UN is but a mere distractions for Christians to focus on. Daniel states that it is the King of the north which establishes and confirms this covenant. The UN is not to the north of Israel.

It seems to me like the seals will be opened in response to the division of the land, (zech 1, i will send my horsemen to terrify the nations who scattered judah) but how can the rider on the white horse divide the land if the seal is broken after the division?
The seals are opened immediately before/after the confirming. The appearance of the AC as king as he assumes authority over 10nations, then the war that breaks out as he goes after Egypt, Libya and Sudan. It is a 2 phase war, first against Egypt then against Israel. When the 2nd phase begins, the rest of the horsemen are let loose as the war then spreads globally, plunging economies and thus causing terror, death, and uncertainty for the people of the nations. All nations on earth will be held responsible even if the actual scattering of the jews in only done by a few (the 10 of the AC).

Am I right in thinking that Jesus will return 42 months after the land is divided? (Rev 11 and the gentiles will trample the holy city for 42 months)

And is it right that Jesus will return 42 months after the AOD (Rev 12 and he will be given power to continue for 42 months)

No. Common mistake I made to until reading further. Jesus says, for the sake of the elect (Christians/jews) he will cut those days short. So Jesus is coming before the end of the 42months. If one reads closely you will see that Jesus does not just appear in Jordan and Israel to fight. But he fights in Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Northern Arabia... Jesus comes back early to rescue his church, wages war, then it culminates at the 1290th day when he enters Jerusalem and takes it from the AC's control. No man knows the DAY nor hour of his return. It would be easy to figure out the day once we know when the covenant begins. but if he comes early, as he says, for our sake, then it would be impossible to even know the day even. The AC and his armies will have control for 1290 days but it will be spending the last 20 days or so trying to stop Jesus from smashing his kingdom to bits.

Also is there a verse that says the Great Tribulation will last for 42 months?

Daniel 11:36-12:4, this is the reign of the AC. At that time there will be a time of great distress such as not happened from the beginning of nations till then. Tribulation means distress. It will last 42 months for the jews in Jerusalem, slightly less for those holed up in the safety of the wilderness, and even slightly shorter for the church as he cuts our days short.

Also, Is the first seal the AOD?
Nope. Riding out to conquer. The AC must first gain ahold of power in his kingdom of 10 through deception/diplomacy/politics (bow but no quiver). But a rebellion by Egypt causes him to go to war, which then sets everything else off. The AOD will happen as he returns from Egypt or on his way to Egypt. So AOD is during the 2nd seal which is mankind going into total war mode.

I hope I helped, based on what I have gotten out of reading the texts and learning from others.
"It is not who I am...But what I do that defines me" -Batman, Batman Begins
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