millenium/eternity question

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millenium/eternity question

Postby Truthinlove on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:16 am

I posted this in another forum, but since I am prewrath, I would like to hear from other prewrathers what occurs after the millenium.

So, what happens after the millenium? I know it will be eternal, but where?

Let me back up....heaven that currently exists....what happens to it during the millenium here on earth? Is it empty? Does it cease to exist?

After the millenium in the NJ here on earth, do we go back to heaven (as we know it now) or do we stay on earth for all eternity?

Also, what becomes of the mortals after the millenium? I know the wicked will be judged at the Great White Throne and will be cast into the lake of fire, but what of the rest? Do they enter into eternity with mortal bodies? Are they transformed?

I did get some answers in the other thread. IF the new heavens and earth are created AFTER the millenium, that makes sense to me.

However, if the new heavens and the new earth are created BEFORE the millenium and some who hold to the prewrath view suggest, then I am confused!

What will happen to the righteous mortals after the millenium in regards to eternity?
"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby nike on Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:00 am

Hi, Truthinlove,

Wow...you don't ask easy questions, do you? To be honest with you, I have dragged my feet on jumping into this one because I don't hold the traditional view of the New Heavens and New Earth being created before the Millennial rule, so I think any answer I give might get pummeled by, well...somebody or everybody! But, I guess if we are working through this together we can't learn anything unless we discuss, so here I go...

I have actually been wrestling with the timing of the NH and NE, as well as the New Jerusalem, for several months now. This thread http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/discus ... 51&t=50624 actually discussed the timeline issue a bit (mostly on the second page), but since then I have continued to dig and unfortunately seem to have more doubts about the NH, NE and NJ being part of the Millennial Kingdom. I do not claim to know all the scripture to study and it seems that when I get a handle on one passage, another is tossed in my path and things get muddled again.

Your questions were many and so before I go on a long treatise and don't even touch the question you were asking, could you do this for me - could you simplify your question and let me know exactly what you are seeking? Are you wondering about eternity in general, or are you wondering about the NH, NE, and NJ in relationship to the Millennium? I just know where my mind has been dwelling and don't want to assume that is where you are as well...

Also, I am curious if you have read the book "Heaven" by Randy Alcorn? It's a great read, not that everything he says I agree with, but he really gets your imagination going and your heart soaring for life after death! He lays out a lot of scripture and then postulates on what it could mean - I am not describing it well, but it is really a great book to focus on heaven. It is biblical, don't get me wrong. It's just where the text allows for some creative imagination, he throws out a lot of possibilities and it's a lot of fun!

I'll wait for your clarification - one final note - I am not sure we are given the answer to all of your questions and for those, we just have to accept the fact that at the present time, we don't need to have the answers...God holds the future in His hands so it's one less thing for us to worry about!

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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:07 am

Truthinlove wrote:I posted this in another forum, but since I am prewrath, I would like to hear from other prewrathers what occurs after the millenium.

So, what happens after the millenium? I know it will be eternal, but where?

Let me back up....heaven that currently exists....what happens to it during the millenium here on earth? Is it empty? Does it cease to exist?

After the millenium in the NJ here on earth, do we go back to heaven (as we know it now) or do we stay on earth for all eternity?


I believe the final "heaven" for all believers will be a restored earth. It was specifically designed by God as a dwelling place for mankind and though cursed as a result of sin, will be restored as originally intended.

.......and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time. Act 3:20-21

Then He said to the man, "Stretch out your hand!" He stretched it out, and it was restored to normal, like the other. Matt 12:13

God is in the restoration/healing business. He determined to restore/heal mankind morally, physically, and most importantly, spiritually. When that is accomplished, we will dwell forever with Him in a restored earth.

....They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day Gen 3:8

.... And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them Rev 21:3

Rev. 21 and 22 parallel the original garden where God and man dwelled together on earth.
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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby Truthinlove on Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:20 am

nike wrote:Your questions were many and so before I go on a long treatise and don't even touch the question you were asking, could you do this for me - could you simplify your question and let me know exactly what you are seeking? Are you wondering about eternity in general, or are you wondering about the NH, NE, and NJ in relationship to the Millennium? I just know where my mind has been dwelling and don't want to assume that is where you are as well...


Sure, I will try to simplify, hopefully it won't sound more complicated. I am definitely fond of asking questions! :lol:

If the NH/NE are created during the 45 day period, right before the millenium, then....

1) What happens after the millenium? Eternity, I know, but where? Will it just be a continuance of the NH/NE/NJ?
Or would we spend eternity in heaven, as we know it now?

2) What becomes of heaven? Does it cease to exist? Scriptures, if there are any....?

3) What happens to the righteous MORTALS after the millenium? They don't enter into eternity with their mortal bodies, right? So, are they transformed, like the living will be at the rapture? Any Scriptures on this?

IF the NH/NE come after the millenium, then that would make more sense in a way, because that would be eternity and it would be differentiated from the millenium. However...

4) Where would the millenium be? Surely not on the decimated earth?

Also, I am curious if you have read the book "Heaven" by Randy Alcorn?


No, not yet. I have heard about it, but I just have too many books to read right now. Maybe someday, it does sound fascinating.
"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOljzwNVGNY
http://www.giannajessen.com/
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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby Truthinlove on Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:23 am

Abiding in His Word wrote:
Truthinlove wrote:I posted this in another forum, but since I am prewrath, I would like to hear from other prewrathers what occurs after the millenium.

So, what happens after the millenium? I know it will be eternal, but where?

Let me back up....heaven that currently exists....what happens to it during the millenium here on earth? Is it empty? Does it cease to exist?

After the millenium in the NJ here on earth, do we go back to heaven (as we know it now) or do we stay on earth for all eternity?


I believe the final "heaven" for all believers will be a restored earth. It was specifically designed by God as a dwelling place for mankind and though cursed as a result of sin, will be restored as originally intended.

.......and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time. Act 3:20-21

Then He said to the man, "Stretch out your hand!" He stretched it out, and it was restored to normal, like the other. Matt 12:13

God is in the restoration/healing business. He determined to restore/heal mankind morally, physically, and most importantly, spiritually. When that is accomplished, we will dwell forever with Him in a restored earth.

....They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day Gen 3:8

.... And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them Rev 21:3

Rev. 21 and 22 parallel the original garden where God and man dwelled together on earth.


Thank you Abiding....

What do you think about the timing though?
See my questions above.

Also, any input on what happens to the righteous mortals living and born during the millenium after the millenium is over?
"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOljzwNVGNY
http://www.giannajessen.com/
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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby nike on Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:42 am

I agree with Abiding that we were created to inhabit the earth, therefore our future is on a restored earth, with God's perfect intent for creating us restored as well. As for mortals during the millennium...those that survive the day of the Lord will not be in resurrected bodies and will have to eventually experience physical death. Their offspring, which over the thousand years will repopulate the earth, will be born in corrupt bodies, since they were conceived through parents with sin natures, and will have to die as well, or like Abiding said, be restored. Isaiah 65:20 tells us that there will be death, but people will live much longer than they do today, though it seems they will not have the aging as the pre-flood society. As to exactly how their regeneration happens after death, I don't believe we are given the information to answer - is it like a video game, where they die and suddenly appear whole? Couldn't tell you, except for the fact we don't have to worry about it, since it's God's plan, not ours...

As for question 4, I think it would be on the decimated earth. But then I would probably need to start defending why I think the NH, NE and NJ are post millennium at this point, and I think I'll wait until your other questions are answered by others...

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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby jgilberAZ on Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:13 am

NH ?
NE ?
NJ ?

New Hampshire?
New England?
New Jersey?

:oops:

:lol:
2 Timothy 2:24a..And the servant of the Lord must not strive ...
The meaning is, that the servant of Christ should be a man of peace. He should not indulge in the feelings which commonly give rise to contention, and which commonly characterize it. He should not struggle for mere victory, even when endeavoring to maintain truth; but should do this, in all cases, with a kind spirit, and a mild temper; with entire candor; with nothing designed to provoke and irritate an adversary; and so that, whatever may be the result of the discussion, "the bond of peace" may, if possible, be preserved.
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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby nike on Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:23 pm

New Heavens
New Earth
New Jerusalem

Sorry... :grin:
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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby Truthinlove on Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:54 am

Maybe Orange Mailman will take a stab at my questions....?? :grin:
"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOljzwNVGNY
http://www.giannajessen.com/
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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby amessenger4god on Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:18 pm

In my opinion, just take the Bible for what it plainly says:

1.) Good world

2.) Then Fallen world

3.) Christ comes and dies for our redemption

4.) Fallen world continues, but the redeemed live in it

5.) Christ returns, His followers are raised imperishable/immortal

6.) Christ reigns over the nations for 1,000 years while satan is locked up

7.) satan is released for one last battle, the wicked dead are raised and judged

8.) Wicked people, demons, satan, death, and hades are destroyed in the lake of fire

9.) The earth and all the elements are burned up and dissolved completely

10.) God creates a NEW heaven and a NEW earth

11.) Eternity...
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."
- John 5:24
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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby kirthril on Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:52 am

After the millinium the current earth and the current Heavin will be wiped away.

The Great White throne Judgement will then take place, and all those who never believed will get their eternal punishment.

After that, a new heaven and a new earth (presumably a much bigger earth) will be created.

The new Jerusalem a 1200mile by 1200mile city will descend from the heavens to the earth and will be our (humans) eternal dwelling place.

So we will spend eternity here on a new earth and in jerusalem. Angels.... i dont know, probably will go back and forth from heaven to earth. But God will be here on earth, shining from the new city.

Its all in the final few chapters of Revelation.
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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby The Orange Mailman on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:14 am

Maybe Orange Mailman will take a stab at my questions....??


Truth In Love-

The truth in love is that I'm just as confused as everyone else.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby Truthinlove on Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:25 pm

kirthril wrote:After the millinium the current earth and the current Heavin will be wiped away.

The Great White throne Judgement will then take place, and all those who never believed will get their eternal punishment.

After that, a new heaven and a new earth (presumably a much bigger earth) will be created.

The new Jerusalem a 1200mile by 1200mile city will descend from the heavens to the earth and will be our (humans) eternal dwelling place.

So we will spend eternity here on a new earth and in jerusalem. Angels.... i dont know, probably will go back and forth from heaven to earth. But God will be here on earth, shining from the new city.

Its all in the final few chapters of Revelation.


ok, thank you.

That still leaves my questions though.

1) Will the millenium take place on the decimated earth after the DOTL, or will it be in heaven?

2) What happens to the righteous MORTALS that live during the millenium, how do they enter into eternity in their mortal bodies?
"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOljzwNVGNY
http://www.giannajessen.com/
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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby Truthinlove on Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:26 pm

The Orange Mailman wrote:
Maybe Orange Mailman will take a stab at my questions....??


Truth In Love-

The truth in love is that I'm just as confused as everyone else.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman


:lol:

Well, I guess I should just accept that I won't know the answers to my questions... :(
"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOljzwNVGNY
http://www.giannajessen.com/
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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby kirthril on Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:24 pm

Truthinlove wrote:
kirthril wrote:After the millinium the current earth and the current Heavin will be wiped away.

The Great White throne Judgement will then take place, and all those who never believed will get their eternal punishment.

After that, a new heaven and a new earth (presumably a much bigger earth) will be created.

The new Jerusalem a 1200mile by 1200mile city will descend from the heavens to the earth and will be our (humans) eternal dwelling place.

So we will spend eternity here on a new earth and in jerusalem. Angels.... i dont know, probably will go back and forth from heaven to earth. But God will be here on earth, shining from the new city.

Its all in the final few chapters of Revelation.


ok, thank you.

That still leaves my questions though.

1) Will the millenium take place on the decimated earth after the DOTL, or will it be in heaven?

2) What happens to the righteous MORTALS that live during the millenium, how do they enter into eternity in their mortal bodies?


1. Yes the 1000 years will take place on the decimated earth. But i surmise it will only take a hundred years or so to clean everything up since all christians and old testament saints to ever have lived will all be living at this time. Thats a few billion people to help clean up the earth.

2. Well, when the earth and heaven are wiped away after the last gog/magog led by satan himself, and the great white throne is set up, those mortals who lived during the milinium who followed God/Jesus would be changed instantly into immortal bodies. Would make sense since a mortal body cant survive w/o oxygen.
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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby Seeker on Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:40 am

Hi Truthinlove,

So, what happens after the millenium? I know it will be eternal, but where?


Joe 3:20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.
Joe 3:21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.

Psa 125:1 <A Song of degrees.> They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.

Mic 4:7 And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.


Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby brandon on Wed May 12, 2010 3:03 am

Per 2 Peter 3, the current creation will be destroyed by fire post-millenium.

3:1 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, 3 knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. 4 They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 6 and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. 7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, [1] not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies [2] will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. [3]

11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, 12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! 13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.


Also, Revelation 21:
21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


These verses show clearly what's going to happen.
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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby MarkT on Mon May 31, 2010 3:26 pm

    2PE 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

    2PE 3:11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.
Let me add a different perspective.

Now while we know Peter said the earth would be destroyed with fire when the Day of the Lord comes,
and whereas blood, fire, and smoke are integral parts of OT Wrath which comes with the Day of the Lord,
and whereas blood and fire are supplied by the first Trumpet, and smoke naturally results from fire,
and whereas in the end-times, God says He will make the mountains "smoke" (Mt St. Helens, Iceland, etc.)
and whereas this fire will burn up a third of the earth...

However again, whereas the prophets foretold of a time when men would live at peace,
and whereas Jesus will rule the earth,
and whereas Ezekiel foretold of a time of healing and when the nations would come to Jerusalem to worship God,
and whereas Zechariah foretold of a time when Jews would live with God's Grace being poured out to them as well,
and whereas Satan is locked away for a thousand years,
and whereas the second resurrection happens only after the Millennium...

I have to ask if Peter's vision is not partial; that it is an observer-true vision. Seeing element melt, and seeing fire lay bare a valley – totally does not mean everything suffers such a fate. Remember, that only a third is burnt... but if you happen to be in that third, it seems like everything is wasted.

An observer, seeing all the fire, and knowing it is not natural, and goes beyond any semblance of naturally occurring fires, might not he think everything is coming to an end with this?

And to have the elements "melt" in fire: is that not like what happens with a nuclear bomb? Could this not be like having plasma rain down?

Peter does not say the whole earth is burned up, but that is laid bare.

Peter does say the earth is followed by the New Earth, but an omission of a fact (the Millennium) does not invalidate that it is still there. What Peter gets right is that the New Earth follows the Day of the Lord.
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to restore the tribes of Jacob
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I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
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Re: millenium/eternity question

Postby MarkT on Mon May 31, 2010 4:03 pm

What is the purpose then of the Millennium?
Why is it there?

How about this: To bring the full number of Israel into the fold.

Let’s look at the world through the eyes of God. You have:
  1. Christians, His Saints.
  2. Jews, who shun Jesus, but nevertheless are the people He has chosen.
  3. Everybody else.
Now everybody else is wicked and only fitting for destruction, so other than the “meek” who inherit the earth, I’ll dispense with discussing the third group.

Now as to the first group, Paul said the full number of the Gentiles had to come in before the Jews would be made jealous; that until that time, they have had a hardening (of the heart – remember Pharaoh?) (Rom 11:25).

When does the full number of the Gentiles come in? At the first Resurrection. Yes, there will be Jews in that resurrection from the time before Christ, and there will be Jews in that who were Messianic Jews like the Apostles.

However, regarding the second group, the bulk of the Jews throughout the Church Age have been antagonistic towards Jesus – they have rejected Jesus and so are not qualified to be selected by God (Elect) on the Day of the Lord.

Furthermore, we have specific prophecy saying that in conjunction with the time of Jacob’s trouble, which I think accurately reflects when God’s Wrath comes on the second half of the Day of the Lord, that only a third of the Jews will “make it” through alive.

This third is the Remnant. So if most of Israel will be destroyed with God’s Wrath, and yet, Israel will be saved: How can this be?

It can be by and because of the Millennium.

The Millennium is a time when Jews and other nations (the meek, Zechariah puts the meek at 10:1 to the Jews in 8:23) live under God’s Laws. It is a time when Jesus rules with an iron scepter. Either the nations worship Him or they get no rain (Zec 14:17-18). This is because with the final Great Earthquake of the one ‘seven’ – there are no mountain ranges to influence rainfall and concentrate it in rainforests because of the lifting action of mountain ranges.

As the first Resurrection revives only the “living” – who are the “sheep” or the “living” in the second Resurrection which happens only after the Millennium?

-- This would be those righteous people, meek and Jew, who live during the Millennium.
I would render an opinion that the sheep/goat division of Matthew 25 and the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20 are the same thing, and that the people who are found in the Book are the Sheep of the Millennium who God has shepherded through.
"It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."
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