Are we (pre-wrathers)

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Are we (pre-wrathers)

Postby Truthinlove on Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:19 am

dispensationalists?? :humm:
"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOljzwNVGNY
http://www.giannajessen.com/
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Re: Are we (pre-wrathers)

Postby Finaldash on Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:33 pm

I think we are Progressive Dispensationalists. http://www.endtimes.org/progressive_dis ... alism.html
I seem to remember Herb even describing himself as this.
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Re: Are we (pre-wrathers)

Postby The Orange Mailman on Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:39 pm

Many PreWrathers would say that they are Progressive Dispensationalists.

I myself am a Historical PreMillennialist.

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Re: Are we (pre-wrathers)

Postby extravagantchristian on Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:57 pm

Truthinlove wrote:dispensationalists?? :humm:


I'm gonna have to google that one...
Matthew 1:22
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Re: Are we (pre-wrathers)

Postby jgilberAZ on Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:06 pm

Here is a good writeup of Progressive Dispensationalism.

I don't know, yet, how much of that I agree with. I've read it and studied it (some), but more research is required.

I will say, however, that I can't see the absolute, sharp distinction between Israel and the Church the way the pretribbers do.

http://www.pfrs.org/pd/index.html
2 Timothy 2:24a..And the servant of the Lord must not strive ...
The meaning is, that the servant of Christ should be a man of peace. He should not indulge in the feelings which commonly give rise to contention, and which commonly characterize it. He should not struggle for mere victory, even when endeavoring to maintain truth; but should do this, in all cases, with a kind spirit, and a mild temper; with entire candor; with nothing designed to provoke and irritate an adversary; and so that, whatever may be the result of the discussion, "the bond of peace" may, if possible, be preserved.
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Re: Are we (pre-wrathers)

Postby revelation12eleven on Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:02 pm

Some might be interested in Ron Wallace's article at Bible Fragrances...

http://www.biblefragrances.com/studies/pwdispen.html
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Re: Are we (pre-wrathers)

Postby tharkun on Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:18 pm

Personally, I coined the term 'loose dispensationalist' to describe my view. in contrast to 'strict dispensationalism' which is what pre-tribs generally ascribe to (no overlapping 'ages' IOW).

Does God have different plans for different people groups? Absolutely!

Are those plans distinct in time? No, there is no Biblical evidence to support this and much againt it.


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Re: Are we (pre-wrathers)

Postby Truthinlove on Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:12 pm

Ok, thanks for the links. I will read those later. I don't know a lot about dispensationalism, honestly.

A post tribber told me to look at the end times from a NON dispensational point of view, but I don't know how to do that. :lol: I didn't even know if I was a dispensationalist. :humm: I only knew that dispensationalism was associated with pretrib.
So, do most POST tribbers NOT believe in dispensations?
"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOljzwNVGNY
http://www.giannajessen.com/
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Re: Are we (pre-wrathers)

Postby extravagantchristian on Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:19 pm

dispensmishelashim :lol:

Sounds like another funky pre-trib word.
Last edited by extravagantchristian on Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Matthew 1:22
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Re: Are we (pre-wrathers)

Postby extravagantchristian on Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:23 pm

Ahha... it is.

Wikipedia:
Dispensationalism is a Protestant evangelical theology [1] and an interpretive framework for understanding the overall flow of the Bible. The term "dispensations" refers to a series of chronologically successive periods in history that emphasize specific Biblical covenants. As a system dispensationalism is rooted in the writings of John Nelson Darby and the Brethren Movement. [2] The theology of dispensationalism consists of a distinctive eschatological "end times" perspective, as all dispensationalists hold to premillennialism and most hold to a pretribulation rapture.

Yes, the two very important docterines of immenency and dispenshishenalism, that Jesus forgot to mention.
Matthew 1:22
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Re: Are we (pre-wrathers)

Postby Truthinlove on Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:48 am

The Orange Mailman wrote:Many PreWrathers would say that they are Progressive Dispensationalists.

I myself am a Historical PreMillennialist.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman


Hi OM

Can you explain the difference?

Thanks
"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOljzwNVGNY
http://www.giannajessen.com/
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Re: Are we (pre-wrathers)

Postby The Orange Mailman on Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:15 pm

Hey Truth In Love-

In the early 1800s, there was only PreMillennialism. Then along comes Darby and develops his dispensational pre-millennialist framework. It includes a hard line distinction between Israel and the church and a pretrib rapture. At that point in time many theologians, preachers, pastors, etc. split and called themselves Historical Pre-Millennialists (as opposed to Dispensational Pre-Millennialists) because they wanted to keep teaching what Pre-Mill had historically been teaching all along from the church fathers through their present time. Those things include continuity between Israel and the church (even some overlap) and that the church will endure the tribulation. Notably, Spurgeon was a Historical Pre-Mill.

SGAT, Sovereign Grace Advent Testimony, is a little print shop in England which keep alive many Historical Pre-Mill writings of days gone by. Most notably, BW Newton, SP Tregelles, and Nathaniel West are included in the writings they print. Although they usually opt for supporting post-trib, they must have some who support PreWrath since they include one of Van Kampen's books in their store.

http://www.sgat.org/index.php?option=co ... e&Itemid=1

More recently about the mid 1900s, George Eldon Ladd was Historic PreMill. He rocked the world with his book The Presence of the Future. His smaller book, The Blessed Hope, was written to defend a Post-Trib rapture, but oddly enough makes a concession that perhaps a PreWrath rapture is possible, although he didn't use that term. The position seems to have pretty much stalled out except with a very recent release entitled The Case for Historic Premillennialism and subtitled An Alternative to "Left Behind"Eschatology. It is written by several theologians and edited by Craig L. Blomberg and Sung Wook Chung. I purchased it and read it voraciously. I'll probably be blogging on it. It has some down points, but overall I like it. I wish there were more material written from this point of view.

One minus to calling yourself Historic PreMill is that there isn't really a united front on what that means. What I mean is that I'm a Pre-Millennialist without all the dispensational garbage floating around out there. I refuse to call myself a Dispensationalist. Alan Kurschner pointed me in the direction of Progressive Dispensationalism insisting that many inconsistencies in the dispensational position have been resolved in this step. While I agree with much of what Bock and Blaising wrote in their book, I still can't adopt some tenets of the position. And I really didn't think Saucy's book was that great.

So, I hope that covers it.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

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Re: Are we (pre-wrathers)

Postby The Orange Mailman on Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:34 pm

Now this is quite timely, almost ironic. One of my favorite bloggers has just revealed that he is now Historic Pre-Mill. Pretty cool. Read his latest post here.

http://newleaven.com/

http://newleaven.com/2009/07/19/the-rap ... -bad-idea/

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

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