Just a word of sympathy

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Just a word of sympathy

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Sat May 02, 2009 7:16 am

Hi all you pre-wrathers

I just want to say that after trying to share my views over at the RR forums, I have a whole new appreciation for what you guys are up against. Many of you are familiar with my take on things and that I subscribe to a revised pre-trib rapture view which is a bit more in line with what some of you believe than the traditional pre-trib view. Anyway I understand how frustrated you must feel when trying to express your views. You would think I was presenting blasphemy to some and my view is pre-trib yet they are unwilling to even consider the possibility that they might be wrong. I am not bashing them, and a few were open about the possibilities, it just seems to me that when discussing prophecy we should all have an open mind, and temper our own interpretations with what we know to be true in God's word.

I appreciate that different views and that debate about them is tolerated and even encouraged here at FP- I have learned a lot from everyone here and I hope I can remain open to the possibility that I may in fact have it wrong. We have so much to learn from each other, just wanted to say thanks.

RT
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Re: Just a word of sympathy

Postby smallisland on Sat May 02, 2009 9:52 am

they are unwilling to even consider the possibility that they might be wrong


Whenever I sense a defensive unbending attitude I smell fearfulness.
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Re: Just a word of sympathy

Postby watching on Thu May 14, 2009 8:19 am

Hi RT,

Just curious. What is your view?
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Re: Just a word of sympathy

Postby extravagantchristian on Thu May 14, 2009 8:46 am

RT, I agree that we should all be open to the fact that we might not be 100% correct when it comes to prophecy. For our own good. The bible does not just come right out and list the way everything is going to happen in a nice neat chronological way, so it would be ignorant to not realize that things might happen in a way that that we did not expect.

I encourage everyone to really examine the Bible with an open mind, not a closed one. And not just rely on a teaching that was fed to you by others. If you really want to know the truth, do your own research and ask the Lord to guide you.
Matthew 1:22
So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophets
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Re: Just a word of sympathy

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Thu May 14, 2009 9:12 am

Hi Watching,

I have a non traditional revised pre-trib view that agrees with some of the pre-wrath view. For example I do not believe that the 24 elders represent the church, I believe that the seals are removed prior to the 70th week, that the raptured and resurrected saints appear as the multitudes in Rev. 7 after the opening of the sixth seal. But where my view differs is that I see the 70th week begin with the opening of the 7th seal- that half hour of silence IMO represents about the first half of the 70th week that occurs as the scroll is opened- the opened scroll IMO represents the trumpet and bowl judgment, the trumpets beginning just before the midpoint and continuing afterward. The Bowls occur later in the second half of the week culminating with the return of Christ.

Those who hold the traditional pre-trib view have a great deal of difficulty getting passed what has been ingrained in their minds through the teaching of men for centuries in the evangelical church. I'm not saying they have it all wrong, nor am I claiming to have it all right, it's just frustrating trying to get people to see it any other way than what they have been taught. I am not suggesting by any means that anyone holding another view is deluded or deceived or that they are unsaved. I just think that some are just closed minded, and unwilling to even consider that they may be incorrect in any way. I admit- I might have it all wrong, I try to be open to different interpretations where the scripture allows- I have learned a lot just by reading other points of view. I hope that I have come to the place where I can realize that we all love the Lord Jesus Christ and that interpreting prophecy should not divide us or pit us against each other. I have not arrived- I guess I just wish others could realize this too, and many do. To those that do not- I just love them regardless.

The reason I posted is that I often in reading posts and in posting myself, see the frustration some of you feel when trying to share your views, and I think maybe sometimes I may even be the cause of it. For that I apologize, and just wanted to say that I can sympathize.

RT
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Re: Just a word of sympathy

Postby watching on Thu May 14, 2009 10:45 am

Hi RT,

Thanks for the explanation. I also appreciate it when people are willing to admit that they might be wrong and I agree with EC's comments above about having an open mind.
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Re: Just a word of sympathy

Postby rizen on Sat May 16, 2009 10:57 am

RT,

I wouldn't worry about it too much (not that you are). But here is an excerpt from the "Defending the Pre-Trib Rapture" section of the website. Here is one of their arguments against the pre-wrath rapture:

Pre-wrath proponents say that the Seventh Trumpet blown in Rev 11:15-18 is the same last trump Paul spoke of in 1 Cor 15:52. However, they fail to take into account the fact that John wrote Revelation 40 years after Paul wrote his first epistle to the Corinthians. How could Paul refer to something that was not yet revealed?


The fact that they brutally mischaracterize the classic pre-wrath position in the above post speaks volumes about how unqualified their critique of the pre-wrath position is. Very simple rule: if you cannot properly present an opposing point of view, then please refrain from critiquing it until you fully grasp their contentions.

Not only that, but notice how he compounds this mischaracterization of the classic pre-wrath position with the much more egregious claim that because "they fail to take into account the fact that John wrote his first epistle to the Corinithians. How could Paul refer to something that was not yet revealed?"

Umm...maybe the Holy Spirit revealed it to him?!? Did Paul write 1 Corinthians, or was he divinely inspired to write it under the authority of the Holy Spirit? Both of these "arguments" are ludicrous once you carefully examine them.

I realize this guy is heavily invested in promoting the pre-trib position, but at least be able to somewhat articulate opposing positions before you critique them, let alone recognize how all the books of the Bible can be viewed through a prophetic lens and not as stand-alone books that have no connection to one another, regardless of who and when they were written.
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Re: Just a word of sympathy

Postby Pretzelogical on Mon May 18, 2009 7:14 am

RT - if not in this thread - then in another - would you please post your view with the scriptures? You have written a Bible study on it, correct? Is there a blog where the study is posted? If not, and youa re interested, www.blogspot.com and others like it are free, but they own your material. I always enjoy your posts!
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Re: Just a word of sympathy

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Wed May 20, 2009 6:51 am

Pretzelogical wrote:

RT - if not in this thread - then in another - would you please post your view with the scriptures? You have written a Bible study on it, correct? Is there a blog where the study is posted? If not, and youa re interested, www.blogspot.com and others like it are free, but they own your material. I always enjoy your posts!


I have written a study, which I am currently in the midst of revising, God is always showing me new things and adding to my understanding. I am currently using it in a bible study I am leading. But it is fairly long- so posting it here would be difficult. The Blogspot is a good idea- but right now I just don't have the time- and I am somewhat techno-challenged in that department as well. If you have specific questions you can PM me and I will do my best to answer. My hope is that once I complete my revisions I would like to publish my study somehow- maybe online or possibly in print. I am leaning on the Lord for His leading in this. I appreciate your encouraging words. You may also want to search my posts I have put some of my thoughts and studies here and there. Right now we're discussing things in the pre-trib forum, but I know it's not really up for debate there. And since my view is pre-trib I cannot really share it here. I have a hard time with the open debating in the debate forum- seems I lack patience in that department with some who are a bit more firm in their opinions than I am comfortable with. So feel free to PM me.

RT
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