My article...clear and easy to understand?

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My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby Truthinlove on Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:18 am

Hi Pre-wrathers...

I want your opinions on an article I wrote on the pre-wrath rapture. If you were undecided in your rapture view or even convinced of a view other than pre-wrath, would this make sense to you? Is it clear and easy to understand? Convincing?
Anything you would change or add? Thanks!


My rapture view....pre-wrath. Here is why
Posted Apr 18th 2008 at 02:26 AM by Truthinlove
The Rapture of the Church
5/25/07


I believe Scripture clearly defines when the rapture will happen in relation to other end-time events. If there is error, it is in my interpretation, not in the Word of God. My desire is that instead of taking my word for it, this article would encourage you to compare the Scriptures to each other and pray and see if you come to the same conclusion.

The Bible tells us that we won't know the day or hour of the rapture (Matt. 24:36), but just a couple of verses earlier (vs. 32 &33), He teaches us that we can know the season.

1 Thess. 4:13-18 & 5:1-2 describes the rapture. "And now, dear brothers and sisters, I want you to know what will happen to the Christians who have died so you will not be full of sorrow like people who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus comes, God will bring back with Jesus all the Christians who have died. I can tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not rise to meet Him ahead of those who are still in their graves. For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with Him forever. So comfort and encourage each other with these words. I really don't need to write to you about how and when all this will happen, dear brothers and sisters. For you know quite well that the day of the Lord will come unexpectedly like a thief in the night." NLT

The last two sentences are in a new chapter, but we must read it in context because his thought continues on the same topic of the rapture. In the original text there were no chapter or verse breaks. He has not changed the subject. If you were to start in ch. 5 you would naturally ask "when will what happen"? And the answer is the rapture, because that is what he was just talking about!

Paul gives the rapture a name....the Day of the Lord. Clearly the the rapture is tied together with the day of the Lord!! So, when does the day of the Lord begin?

Two very important Scriptures will help us out.

2 Thess. 2:1-4 says "And now, brothers and sisters, let us tell you about the coming again of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet Him. Please don't be so easily shaken and troubled by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Even if they claim to have a vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us, don't believe them. Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed – the one who brings destruction. He will exalt himself and defy every god there is and tear down every object of adoration and worship. He will position himself in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God." NLT

In other words, the day that Christ comes and gathers us (the rapture) at the beginning of the day of the Lord will not happen until after the antichrist defiles the temple, an event which clearly happens at the halfway point of the 7 year period. (Dan. 9:27).

Joel 2:31 gives us the signs that happen prior to the day of the Lord "The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes."

So, now I would refer you back to the the Olivet Discourse in Matt. 24.

Here again the rapture is tied together with the day of the Lord...perfectly paralleling what Paul teaches in 1 & 2 Thessalonians.

Matt. 24:29-31 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from on end of the sky to the other."

We see the signs that announce the beginning of the day of the Lord, then we see the rapture. Notice the rapture and the day of the Lord will come after the midpoint when antichrist begins his persecution of the Jews and saints. Again, this parallels Paul's teaching about the rapture without contradiction.

I see these two texts as essential to knowing the timing of the rapture.

2 Peter also links the rapture with the Day of the Lord in chapter 3:9-12 "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!"

The Day of the Lord not a 24 hour day, it is a time period of unknown duration when God will pour out His judgment on the wicked during the 70th week. The Day of the Lord contains the wrath of God. Believers will not endure the wrath of God. (1 Thess. 1:10 & 5:9, Romans 5:9)

In Revelation, the Day of the Lord begins in Rev. 8, after the signs in the sun, moon & stars and after the rapture of the saints which is shown as the great multitude in heaven having come out of the great tribulation. The rapture occurs at the 6th seal in Revelation. After the cosmic signs, but before the Day of the Lord.

In Luke 21:28 we are told "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near" in relation to the signs in the sun, moon and stars, because the rapture will take place after those signs and then God's wrath will begin.

2 Thess. 1:6-8 says "For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ."

We are given relief (raptured) from affliction (persecution by antichrist, aka - great tribulation) when Jesus comes, and then he will punish the wicked.

The days of the 2nd Coming are compared to the days of Noah and Lot (Matt. 24:37-39, Luke 17:26-30).
The righteous were rescued and the wicked destroyed on the same day. It will be "just the same" when Jesus returns. Also, the wicked mocked Noah for preparing and building the ark, but they were destroyed in the flood. It will be the same in the last days (2 Peter 3:3-4).

From the comparison of these Scriptures, I have come to the conclusion that the rapture will happen at the 6th seal of Rev. sometime during the 2nd half of the 7 years, after the great tribulation by the antichrist. Then the wrath of God will be poured out in the Day of the Lord via the trumpet and bowl judgments.

"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOljzwNVGNY
http://www.giannajessen.com/
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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby Truthinlove on Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:33 pm

Ummmm, anybody? :(

Was it that bad?
"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOljzwNVGNY
http://www.giannajessen.com/
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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby burien1 on Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:52 pm

Don`t be disheartened. It`s a weekend and lots of folks are busy. Only have a minute to spare myself. :wink:
Psalm 119:105; Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby nonymouse on Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:53 pm

Imho, excellent explanation.
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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby Cheryl on Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:29 pm

I admit I'm on this site to learn more than to give opinions but it was quite clear to me, though a bit brief. Obviously, if your audience is one who has not done much heavy study of Revelation, an overview of the timeline would be important to put the whole thing into context. If you are going for a brief article and your audience is already familiar with the debate, it suits its purpose very well.
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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby The Orange Mailman on Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:37 pm

I like it. You start with the classic rapture passage, move to the Day of the LORD timing, and go from there. Overall it's a pretty good framework.

That being said, if you want this to be an official paper, I would proofread it and tweak it just a bit. I noticed a sentence with a "the the" in it. Other ideas might be instead of "Paul give the rapture a name... The Day of the LORD", perhaps you could say that Paul gives the timing of the rapture a name, or timeframe or something like that.

The entire thing is pretty sound except for one thing. There is no mention of rapture in II Peter 3:9-12 as far as I can see. Only the destruction is mentioned. Any Pre-Tribber would affirm that they look forward to new heavens and new earth and still hold to their framework.

After a proofread, I'd print it off and start passing it out.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby Truthinlove on Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:14 pm

Cheryl wrote:I admit I'm on this site to learn more than to give opinions but it was quite clear to me, though a bit brief. Obviously, if your audience is one who has not done much heavy study of Revelation, an overview of the timeline would be important to put the whole thing into context. If you are going for a brief article and your audience is already familiar with the debate, it suits its purpose very well.


Thank you, yes I did make it brief so as not to bore people. I wanted to stay on the topic of the timing of the rapture. :grin:
"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOljzwNVGNY
http://www.giannajessen.com/
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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby Truthinlove on Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:23 pm

The Orange Mailman wrote:I like it. You start with the classic rapture passage, move to the Day of the LORD timing, and go from there. Overall it's a pretty good framework.

That being said, if you want this to be an official paper, I would proofread it and tweak it just a bit. I noticed a sentence with a "the the" in it. Other ideas might be instead of "Paul give the rapture a name... The Day of the LORD", perhaps you could say that Paul gives the timing of the rapture a name, or timeframe or something like that.

The entire thing is pretty sound except for one thing. There is no mention of rapture in II Peter 3:9-12 as far as I can see. Only the destruction is mentioned. Any Pre-Tribber would affirm that they look forward to new heavens and new earth and still hold to their framework.

After a proofread, I'd print it off and start passing it out.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman


Hey Orange Mailman, it's me "kept_soul" on the prewrath board. I hardly ever post there, but I know of you.

Thank you for your input and advice. I deleted the 2 Pet. passage once re-reading it because I felt it wasn't as much on track with the rest of the article. I also changed it to "Paul gives us a name in regards to the timing of the rapture, it is the Day of the Lord." How does that sound? That was good advice.

I did not see the "the the". Could you point that out to me?

Thanks!

More input welcome.....
"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOljzwNVGNY
http://www.giannajessen.com/
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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby OBXBob on Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:31 pm

Hello Truthinlove,

I think it's a very good summary. :grin:

BTW, here is the 'the the':

Paul gives the rapture a name....the Day of the Lord. Clearly the the rapture is tied together with the day of the Lord!! So, when does the day of the Lord begin?


YBIC,


Bob
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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby Truthinlove on Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:35 pm

Oh, :oops: thank you! Will fix it now :grin:
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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby OBXBob on Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:42 pm

You're welcome! :grin:

YBIC,


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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby The Orange Mailman on Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:59 pm

Hey Truth in Love-

Why not post it over there, too? Don't be shy. What's the worst that could happen?

BTW, sometimes the simplicity of the PreWrath Rapture gets to people. Many want complicated explanations on prophetic passages that only the extremely educated will be able to comprehend. If we can talk in plain language like you are doing, the every day Christian will be able to grasp and own the teaching. So I really do like the approach. I think you'll be surprised if you put yourself out there a little bit.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby Lightseeker on Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:28 pm

:wavewelcome: Cheryl!

Hi Truthinlove,

Thanks for posting that. I thought it was well written and concise.

Now I'm puzzled and have a question (and please excuse my ignorance). I used to believe in pre-trib (taught that way) but am now post-trib (after the tribulation and not appointed to His wrath). How is this view different from that? Thanks!

Blessings...
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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby Keeping Alert on Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:08 am

Hi truthinlove,

You wrote

"from on end of the sky to the other"

It should be "from ONE end of the sky to the other"

Cheers!
KA
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

πατερ δοξασον σου το ονομα
Father, glorify thy name.

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby Truthinlove on Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:05 am

The Orange Mailman wrote:Hey Truth in Love-

Why not post it over there, too? Don't be shy. What's the worst that could happen?

-The Orange Mailman


Ok, will do :grin:
"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOljzwNVGNY
http://www.giannajessen.com/
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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby Truthinlove on Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:06 am

Keeping Alert wrote:Hi truthinlove,

You wrote

"from on end of the sky to the other"

It should be "from ONE end of the sky to the other"

Cheers!
KA



Ahhhh, thank you!! :grin:

I can't believe I missed both of those typos when reading just the other day.
"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOljzwNVGNY
http://www.giannajessen.com/
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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby Truthinlove on Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:18 am

Lightseeker wrote:Hi Truthinlove,

Thanks for posting that. I thought it was well written and concise.


Thank you!

Now I'm puzzled and have a question (and please excuse my ignorance). I used to believe in pre-trib (taught that way) but am now post-trib (after the tribulation and not appointed to His wrath). How is this view different from that?


Good question. Well, the main difference between the pre-wrath view and the classic post-trib view is that although they both usually agree in seeing the rapture "after the tribulation of those days" and at the 6th seal in Revelation is that pre-wrath believes in a "cutting short" of the persecution of the antichrist which would end that tribulation (or persecution) prior to the end of the 7 year period. This is when the 6th seal would occur and thus the rapture. Classic pre-wrath believes in a rapture that is sometime DURING the second half of the 7 year period. The remainder of the 7 years after the rapture will be the DOTL judgments. The cutting short comes from Matt. 24:22.
When it says "after the tribulation of those days" it is NOT saying after the 70th week (7 year period) is over.
It is man who named the entire 7 years "the tribulation", which is an inaccurate term. Tribulation only refers to the persecution by the antichrist, technically called "great tribulation" which begins at the midpoint and is "cut short" before the end of the 7 years.
Hope that makes sense. Any other pre-wrathers feel free to add to my answer.
"I didn't survive so I could make everyone comfortable. I survived so I could stir things up a bit. And I have a great time doing it." - Gianna Jessen (abortion survivor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOljzwNVGNY
http://www.giannajessen.com/
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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby Lightseeker on Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:14 pm

Gotcha! Thanks for taking the time to answer. :grin:

Blessings...
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Re: My article...clear and easy to understand?

Postby in2truth on Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:57 am

I found it very easy to understand. Well done! There are some grammatical errors that show up as spelling errors, if you re read it slowly, you will find them.

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