What an incredible revelation!

[savedbygrace]

I just read through the entire post under the 'Pre-tribbers only' forum that lists all the scriptures that point to pre-trib.

And aside from about three fourths of them being taken completely out of context and not having anything to do with rapture at all,

I could not find any of the rest of them that genuinely supported a pre-trib rapture. My brothers and sisters, this is alarming because I was taught this doctrine emphatically, as absolute word of God truth when I was going to church as a youth also... and many churches are still teaching this same doctrine today!

Now, thank God, and the insights of people like Herb Peters, my eyes have been opened to the truth of the bible, and my mind has been cleared of pre-taught doctrines. So when I read scripture, it all fits together perfectly. This could have not happened before the Lord allowed me to see it, and with prayer and an open mind. It is very important to read scriptures without an overlay of man made doctrines in our head.

Let us pray for our brothers and sisters in Jesus that they too may receive insight, that the last days are upon us and to prepare wisely for tough times. It is better to prepare for the worst and be wrong, than to be unprepared and have calamity cast upon you!

God bless you,
Jake

[Finaldash]

All I can say is WOW. I am awestruck seeing your humility. So few have come to realization as you have with seemingly so few obstacles in pride as you have.

You go to Calvary Chapel in SD right?
Anyone feel the same way as you do?
How about your pastor?

David

[perigrini]

I agree with Findlash...you are to be commended for making it a point of study.
It is hard to set aside all the preconcieved notions and seek what is IN scripture instead of what is imposed upon scripture.

It does make much more sense without the baggage.

May the Lord continue to bless you and give you wisdom.


Blessings,

perigrini

[savedbygrace]

Hello my brothers,

Nice to meet you!

Yes, I attend Maranatha! Chapel in San Diego. It is a Calvary Chapel church.
How did you know?

I talked to Herb personally last week and asked him why he had not spoken at Maranatha yet. He said he knew Ray Bentley, but there would be a conflict with the traditional teachings of the Calvary Chapel church doctrines, since he is not pre-trib in his teachings about the tribulation being only the last 3 1/2 years of the 70th week, and it would not go over well with the Calvary Chapel church. He told me if I wanted to see him speak there, I needed to tell Ray directly. We are, afterall, having a huge prophecy conference at Maranatha on May 4-6!

So I made it a point to stay late today and have a short discussion with pastor Ray Bentley when the service was over. My intention was to ask why they have not invited Herb Peters to speak there yet. Ray Bentley is aware of Herb's teachings, and that they conflict with the traditional pre-trib views of Chuck Smith and the Calvary Chapel churches, but he is very open minded and supportive of many of Herb's views. Ray is also on the front page of FP... so I believe it is no coincidence to have this happen. Ray said mainly it was the pre-wrath thing that was why it would not be allowed.

However, PRAISE GOD, something struck his mind and he said I was the second person to mention ask about Herb speaking here, and suddenly he said maybe he could talk to Herb and just have him skim over the part about the timing of the rapture and maybe he could have him speak there. Ray seemed moved to do something about it, and he told me he would see what he could do....

I replied to him, the purpose of Herb's teachings is not in the spirit of debate, or to argue the timing of the rapture. It is mainly to get the word out that the events are happening extremely fast in the middle east, and the prophecies are coming true quickly. It is his intention to get the word out to the churches to be prepared! (and if you also happened to learn from his teachings and putting the scripture together that the rapture may not happen at the beginning of the 70th week, then SO BE IT praise GOD!)

I hope it is your prayer along with mine that will cause this to happen, and that Herb will be allowed to speak at Maranatha some time very soon. It is a very large church, and as you can see, there are NO speaking dates anywhere in So Cal for Herb. It needs to start somewhere, and I pray it will be right here!

God bless,
Jake

[Finaldash]

Yes, I attend Maranatha! Chapel in San Diego. It is a Calvary Chapel church.
How did you know?

I've been to the Maranatha website and read that they are a Calvary Church. I also know that they have Herb's views in their website as well.

I live in OC but I will be in Alaska for the next 5.5 mos. starting in the 15th. Hopefully you can get Herb there in the next couple of weeks. So I can check it out. But again he is so busy these days.

I go to Chuck Smith's church once in awhile.

But isn't this website such a blessing?
Before I found this last yr. I only knew of one other friend that was prewrath. Now being here I know (i'm assuming) hundreds more friends that are prewrath.


David

[OBXBob]

Jake wrote:

However, PRAISE GOD, something struck his mind and he said I was the second person to mention ask about Herb speaking here, and suddenly he said maybe he could talk to Herb and just have him skim over the part about the timing of the rapture and maybe he could have him speak there. Ray seemed moved to do something about it, and he told me he would see what he could do....

I replied to him, the purpose of Herb's teachings is not in the spirit of debate, or to argue the timing of the rapture. It is mainly to get the word out that the events are happening extremely fast in the middle east, and the prophecies are coming true quickly. It is his intention to get the word out to the churches to be prepared! (and if you also happened to learn from his teachings and putting the scripture together that the rapture may not happen at the beginning of the 70th week, then SO BE IT praise GOD!)

Jake,

This is great news! Herb need not say a word about pre-wrath; when he points out the events that have transpired in the Middle East, the listener / serious watcher can then begin reading the prophecies in perhaps a fresh and new perspective. I believe that when the sacrifices are allowed to resume, and plans are approved to rebuild the temple, dedicated watchers will have to take note, regardless of their position on rapture timing.

YBIC,

Bob

[David L]

Jake,

There is a man who will be speaking at the Maranatha Prophecy Conference who is a pre-wrath teacher. His name is Jacob Prasch and is a Messianic Jew who speaks at Calvary Chapels regularlly despite his pre-wrath views.

see for yourself:

Jacob's USA Tour

April

Thursday - 26th thru Saturday 28th
2007 Great Lakes Pastor's Conference
Calvary Chapel of Appleton
2136 E. Newberry St.
Appleton, WI 54915
Speakers: Don McClure, Gayle Erwin, Jacob Prasch
Special Music: Terry & Nancy Clark
CONTACT: 920-735-1242

Sunday 29th - 9:00 & 11:00 AM
Calvary Chapel Tri City
Calvary Tri City
2334 East Southern Avenue
Tempe, AZ 85282 (480) 345-6200

May

Friday - Sunday, May 4 - 6, 2007
Marantha - The Lord Is Coming Conference
Maranatha Chapel
10752 Coastwood Rd.
San Diego, CA 92127
(858) 613-7800
Click here for details

August

Friday - Sunday, Aug 3 & 4th, 2007
The Day The Lord Is Near
Calvary Chapel Chino Hills
4201 Eucalyptus Ave
Chino, CA 91710 USA
909-393-7100

Sunday, Aug 5, 2007
Calvary Chapel San Jacinto
1450 W. 7th Street
San Jacinto, CA 92582
951-654-1401
8:00 AM, 9:45 AM, & 11.30 AM




It should be no problem having Herb to go speak at Maranatha if Jacob will be speaking there in May. He will also be at Calvary Chapel Chino Hills in August again for the conference there and regularly does conferences at Calvary Chapels.

Although I am sure there is a gag on the rapture timing stuff Jacob has not been known to hold back any punches when he's on the pulpit. Just thought I would share that with you and encourage you.


_________________

Yes, I attend Maranatha! Chapel in San Diego. It is a Calvary Chapel church.
How did you know?

I've been to the Maranatha website and read that they are a Calvary Church. I also know that they have Herb's views in their website as well.

I live in OC but I will be in Alaska for the next 5.5 mos. starting in the 15th. Hopefully you can get Herb there in the next couple of weeks. So I can check it out. But again he is so busy these days.

I go to Chuck Smith's church once in awhile.

But isn't this website such a blessing?
Before I found this last yr. I only knew of one other friend that was prewrath. Now being here I know (i'm assuming) hundreds more friends that are prewrath.


David

You're not alone. I think I may be the only pre-wrath believer at the Calvary Chapel I attend and serve at in Santa Ana. I have no problem with that because I can pray and reason with them about these things when the time comes to do so...

They're all into the imminent return that can happen at anytime any day now. I gave one of Jacob's CD's to the bible teacher at our men's studies and he loved it. In that CD Jacob addressed that the rapture can't come at any time any moment - not until after the antichrist has been revealed so it's a single ray of light. Now, my pastor, that's another story altogether but prayer changes all things so I won't worry about crossing that bridge until God builds the bridge for me.

[savedbygrace]

Thank you for the info David,

I did not know Jacob Prasch was pre-wrath. I saw his name on the conference flyer, but I assumed he was pre-trib like all the others speaking. I will make it a point to see him speak at the conference.

I am glad there a are a few who are starting to see the truth of the scriptures in my home church also. I have a good friend who is similar in his beliefs recently, who has not seen it this way before, but now he is understanding it pretty clearly that Jesus is not coming before the tribulation in some invisible appearing. I am not sure how or why this friend is seeing it this way suddenly, since we do not have bible studies together, he must be getting it from somewhere else (the Holy Spirit) because he has never read a book in his life. He is dislexic.

Also, I was discussing it with another friend of mine who has been a Christian for many years and now he is seeing the simple and plain truth of it too. It is a little strange how the people who accept it the easiest are the ones who have not previously read the scriptures about the second coming, but have only listened to what they have been taught over the years by false teachings. But when they go through the scriptures about the Lord's return, they are seeing the truth plainly that Jesus said warned of his coming AFTER the AoD.... (Mark 13:14)

Now I am really looking forward to the prophecy conference! Since you are in Santa Ana, are you planning to drive down here and attend? Jacob Prasch is speaking on Friday May4th at 140 pm. and again on Saturday at 115pm..

[David L]

Yea, I thought about it long and hard. Actually, I wanted to go from the get go but the drive is a long one and I'd like to have someone go with me to help out with the driving back and forth.

I just put a request in to get those days off so I'll wait and see what the Lord does and act accordingly. I figured if anything I can always get the CD's from Moriel's website if I couldn't make it but there's nothing like being there when it happens!!


You know what's funny, I pretty much said and thought the same things you did until I came across last year's Israel Prophecy Conference, where I first heard him speak just after Thomas Ice (who we all know well) left the pulpit selling his website, books, and pre-trib propaganda.

It was actually through Jacob's teachings that I came to an understanding of pre-wrath and a rejecting of pre-trib since I too was saved into a pre-trib church and that was all I ever knew. I was first exposed to pre-wrath here and rejected it, along with much of what was said here about the faith-prosperity teachers I admired and followed, but like other things in my life my preconceived bias fell apart quickly when I tested them against the scripture. I really use to believe that Benny Hinn was a man of God.

[Finaldash]

Actually, I wanted to go from the get go but the drive is a long one and I'd like to have someone go with me to help out with the driving back and forth.

I would go with you if I didn't have to leave for Alaska.

[David L]

It's official.

I'm going down to San Diego on May 5th, Lord willing, with a couple of brothers to go hear out the pastors at Maranatha Chapel.

[savedbygrace]

RIGHT ON!

I'll meet you there! David Prasch is speaking May 5th at 115pm.... would be great to meet another pre-wrath Christian brother!

Jake

[Tevye]

Someday,
I hope there will be a mass awakening
to the truth about Jesus coming, then...
sitting and listening to sermons
will be extremely wonderful.

[bchandler]

I think that mass-awakening will be when the events of revelation begin to unfold.. .and it becomes obvious we are in the tribulation.

I think you will see 2 camps form:

1. Those who will believe either that God has broken his word and choose to serve anti-christ, or who will believe that anti-christ is the second comming because they do not have the word in them.

2. Those who will honestly and diligently search the scriptures to find where they were wrong, and act accordingly.

I believe that the Lord is revealing the truth about the pre-trib rapture doctrine to some... because they will be needed to uphold and teach their brethren when the time comes. So that those who will not fall away might be preserved in all righteousness and by the grace of God.

Hold fast to truth, and prepare, so that when the time comes you will be able to not only stand yourself... but be a pillar against which others may also find the strength to stand.

[David L]

^^

If that is true then He must be setting me up to be one of those who will reveal truth at the appointed time because I have just been appointed to teach the Men's Bible Studies at my Calvary Chapel in Santa Ana and they know I am pre-wrath.

Keep me in your prayers.

[AndCanItBe]

That is encouraging news!

[savedbygrace]

Right on David! Our prayers are being answered already! Glad to hear you are able to teach at C.C. I am wondering if the same thing is in the works for me also... it seem to be heading that way lately..

GBU,
Jake

[Finaldash]

Hi David L,
Maybe when I get back to SoCal I will join you in the Men's bible study.
I usually go to Mariners (Irvine) but maybe for the bible studies I'll give you a little back up from the prewrath camp.


David M

[David L]

^^

Well, it's not like that at all. There really isn't a pre-trib vs pre-wrath environment there nor would I want to bring one in. It's more of a sit at the feet of Jesus and be fed the Word type of setting. Very open to discussion and crosstalk about the given topic and how it speaks to your heart. It's a very comfortable atmosphere.

I'm not officially running anything but they are giving me an opportunity to on occasion to lead a study under supervision. I'm being tutored per say... which is alright with me because the best teachers are usually those who are students at heart always eager to learn and be taught as oppose to being the one who is teaching.

But you are definitely welcomed to come and join us. It's a small group of guys who are growing in the Lord and getting to know each other all at the same time. We all have gifts to contribute and this atmosphere at the bible study gives everyone an opportunity to exercise them or discover them.

[savedbygrace]

Maybe I'll join you sometime too!

GBU,
Jake

[Tevye]

Now, thank God, and the insights of people like Herb Peters, my eyes have been opened to the truth of the bible, and my mind has been cleared of pre-taught doctrines. So when I read scripture, it all fits together perfectly. This could have not happened before the Lord allowed me to see it, and with prayer and an open mind. It is very important to read scriptures without an overlay of man made doctrines in our head.

Let us pray for our brothers and sisters in Jesus that they too may receive insight, that the last days are upon us and to prepare wisely for tough times.

God bless you,
Jake

[smallisland]

This Jacob Prasch - he's pre-wrath and he's a Brit - is that right??

[savedbygrace]

This is taken
from Jacob's website, http://moriel.org/jacob_prasch.htm

James Jacob Prasch is Director of Moriel Ministries.

Jacob was born near New York City in the USA where he became a Christian while studying science in university in February of 1972, after trying to disprove the bible with science, history, and archaeology. He found so much evidence in support of the claims of Jesus and the Bible that it required more faith to reject it than to believe it.

Already frustrated by the failures of the hippie generation to build a better world, disillusioned by the Marxism to which he subscribed, and with the drug culture that claimed the lives of some of his friends and nearly his own, he put his faith in Jesus.

Jacob’s family is a combination of Roman Catholic and Jewish (in his youth he was forced to attend a Catholic school, but also attended the Jewish Community Centre). Jacob’s wife Pavia, also from a science background, is a Romanian born Israeli Jewish believer who is the daughter of holocaust survivors. Pavia was an atheist, and Jacob was an agnostic. After coming to faith both switched from study in scientific fields to theological fields in Israel and in Britain. They have two children both born in Galilee.

Jacob is a Hebrew speaking evangelist to The Jews and a bible teacher elaborating on the original Judeo-Christian background and hermeneutics of The New Testament, and his emphasis is on church planting and missions. He and Moriel have also been a conservative voice for biblically based discernment among moderate Pentecostals and Charismatics opposed to the seductions of the ecumenism, money oriented preaching and hype artistry, ‘charismania’ and psycho-babble prevalent in today’s church.

Jacob & Moriel are committed to the conviction that we are in The Last Days approaching the return of Christ and that contemporary events in The Middle East, the moral deterioration of society, the destruction of the environment, the globalization of the world economy, the rise of a pseudo democratic federal Europe and above all the apostasy in the contemporary church, are all events of prophetic significance eschatologically.