Unreported News, Commentary, Resources and Discussion of Bible Prophecy
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lgforan wrote:So, here is my question:
Mark 13:32 -33 states:
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is."
My question is - If we read Revelation from a cronological view would we not be able to determine the date of the rapture - or at least narrow it down to a few days based on the sequence of the opening of the seals, bowls and definetly from the 3 1/2 year mark?
29"But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30"And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
31"And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Matthew 24:29-31
15"Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
....
21"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Matthew 24:15,21
22"Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Matthew 24:22
AndCanItBe wrote:There is a theory I have heard about Rosh Hashannah. The Jews apparently very frequently referred to it as the holiday where "no one knows the day or the hour", because you had to send out two witnesses and watch for the phase of the moon to know exactly what time Rosh Hashannah or the New Year would begin. When Jesus said that phrase, according to this theory, the disciples would have immediately thought of Rosh Hashannah. They celebrate Rosh Hashannah for two days because no one can be sure when the moon will come out in the correct phase each year and they don't want to miss it. In other words "no one knows the day and the hour" only the Father. I don't know if I believe it myself, but it certainly is an interesting thought. Jesus may have simply meant He wouldn't know the exact moment that the moon would be in the right phase either. I don't know all of the details of this feast but as I understand it, in Biblical times it could be delayed up to two weeks if the barley harvest wasn't ready. There are so many parrellels it's kind of shocking and it could be a possible explaination of those verses in Matthew.
Disclaimer: I'm not attempting to date-set. You can't have any certainty about what year this would happen in. Even if you go from the AOD, we know the days will be cut short so at that point we might have one of three Rosh Hashannah's to pick from or not....because it's just a theory that I have heard. I have heard another theory on the board about the signifigance of Rosh Hashannah that focuses mostly on it being the head of the new year and is entirely different and equally intriguing.
Personally, I just stick with what we do specifically know from scripture and stay away from speculation as much as is possible (even if that speculation may turn out accurate or not in the end).
29"But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30"And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
sacredcowbasher wrote:Peri posted:29"But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30"And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
You said, His return is immediately after the tribulation of those days. It doesn't say that. It states the condition of the earth because of the heavens being shaken, and that this will immediately follow the tribulation of those days. It then says, 'and then the sign of the Son of man will appear in the sky'.....
There could definately be a gap between these events. Jesus could be giving us an overview of chronilogical events. The bible does this kind of thing quite often where at first it may appear the events follow instantly behind one another, there may be a good bit of time that lapses between them. This is the way that I see it.
Mark 13:32 -33 states: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is."
We won't know the day or hour because those days will be cut short. But I believe we will definately know the season.That is, what we learn is that the great tribulation will be cut short. Do you know how much it will be cut short? Neither do I. So we neither know how long the great tribulation is, nor do we know how much it will be cut short.
'Know also and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to cause to return and to build Jerusalem, unto [5] the Anointed the Prince, shall be seven weeks.
'Yet threescore and two weeks shall [6] it return, and the street be built and the wall; but in troublesome times: and after the threescore and two weeks, the Anointed shall be cut off, and [6] it shall not be his; but the people of a Prince to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary: and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war, desolations are determined.
Know also and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to cause to return and to build Jerusalem, unto the Anointed the Prince, shall be seven weeks. The former part of the Prophecy related to the first coming of Christ, being dated to his coming as a Prophet; this being dated to his coming to be Prince or King, seems to relate to his second coming. There, the Prophet was consummate, and the most holy anointed: here, he that was anointed comes to be Prince and to reign. For Daniel's Prophecies reach to the end of the world; and there is scarce a Prophecy in the Old Testament concerning Christ, which doth not in something or other relate to his second coming. If divers of the antients, as [8] Irenæus, [9] Julius Africanus, Hippolytus the martyr, and Apollinaris Bishop of Laodicea, applied the half week to the times of Antichrist; why may not we, by the same liberty of interpretation, apply the seven weeks to the time when Antichrist shall be destroyed by the brightness of Christ's coming?
The Israelites in the days of the antient Prophets, when the ten Tribes were led into captivity, expected a double return; and that at the first the Jews should build a new Temple inferior to Solomon's, until the time of that age should be fulfilled; and afterwards they should return from all places of their captivity, and build Jerusalem and the Temple gloriously, Tobit xiv. 4, 5, 6: and to express the glory and excellence of this city, it is figuratively said to be built of precious stones, Tobit xiii. 16, 17, 18. Isa. liv. 11, 12. Rev. xi. and called the New Jerusalem, the Heavenly Jerusalem, the Holy City, the Lamb's Wife, the City of the Great King, the City into which the Kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour. Now while such a return from captivity was the expectation of Israel, even before the times of Daniel, I know not why Daniel should omit it in his Prophecy. This part of the Prophecy being therefore not yet fulfilled, I shall not attempt a particular interpretation of it, but content myself with observing, that as the seventy and the sixty two weeks were Jewish weeks, ending with sabbatical years; so the seven weeks are the compass of a Jubilee, and begin and end with actions proper for a Jubilee, and of the highest nature for which a Jubilee can be kept: and that since the commandment to return and to build Jerusalem, precedes the Messiah the Prince 49 years; it may perhaps come forth not from the Jews themselves, but from some other kingdom friendly to them, and precede their return from captivity, and give occasion to it; and lastly, that this rebuilding of Jerusalem and the waste places of Judah is predicted in Micah vii. 11. Amos ix. 11, 14. Ezek. xxxvi. 33, 35, 36, 38. Isa. liv. 3, 11, 12. lv. 12. lxi. 4. lxv. 18, 21,22. and Tobit xiv. 5. and that the return from captivity and coming of the Messiah and his kingdom are described in Daniel vii. Rev. xix. Acts i. Mat. xxiv. Joel iii. Ezek. xxxvi. xxxvii. Isa. lx. lxii. lxiii. lxv. and lxvi. and many other places of scripture. The manner I know not. Let time be the Interpreter.
perigrini wrote:So if we take what Jesus teaches us we learn that the great tribulation is not the entirety of the 70th week as the pretrib doctrine falsely teaches but is a period that begins AFTER the middle of the 70th week.
heavenlycreation wrote:Hi guys! I've been unable to log onto this website for a loong time. I'm finally able to get on now, and I have some major news, at least in my mind anyway!
When I first started logging onto fulfilled prophecy a year ago, I was pretty ignorant of end times scripture. I believed what I was told by my pastors, that there would be a pre-trib rapture. God used this website, a vision in a dream, and wisdom to reveal to me how these last days are going to go down. I don't have it all figured out, only what God has shown me. It all makes sense in my mind, but it's going to take some time to get it all out in some sort of a time line explanation. I do agree with the pre-wrath view, but God has revealed some interesting things to me in regards to understanding scripture in a whole new way. Like, it all ties together, and wisdom is the key that unlocks it all. The word really is alive and each part is intertwined together.
So for what it's worth, I just wanted to say that I'm looking forward to getting back on here and sharing what God has revealed. I really am. Fulfilled prophecy has a special place in mine and my husband's heart, The way God has used Herb has really changed our lives, and many others I'm sure.
Also, I could really really use some of your prayers. I've been battling anxiety really bad now for the past 3 months, and it's only getting worse. I know God is leading me through it, but it's kinda scary, and I don't have any other Christian friends other than my husband to pray for me. Please pray that God would strengthen my faith, and deliver me from this. It really is a spiritual attack, and I can feel it squeezing on my brain through out the day, and I have to fight really hard to let it go. I know when you see a pray request online, is seems a little less real than standing face to face, but you are all real people, and I have a real problem, so I know that our father will hear your prayers.
Thank You
Tiffany
David L wrote:I'm sure we all think that we've discovered a new way of looking at scripture which really isn't new but remains to be revealed to many of us by the Holy Spirit.
I always give someone the benefit of doubt, testing what is said against Scripture. I believe God will speak directly to us through visions and dreams and that God will speak through sons and daughters.And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
Spirit wrote:Hi Triton..
Been reading your post, and I am pretty convinced that we are in the 70th week. I have posted here before and am trying to learn different positions..but without question, I am led to a pre-wrath position (although I would prefer to be pre-trib). I cannot find support for the traditional pre-trib.
Anyway..I love your charts etc..but please help me understand how you arrive at October 5, 2005 as the starting point of the 70th week? I am of the opinion at the moment that it started 1/1/07 with the 7 yr. ENP. Your charts indicated that the 10/05 date compliments the 1/1/07 date, and I am confused about that.
Thank you for your post up there..very good.
Spirit wrote:Explain your theory on when the seals come into play. Do you see the 6th seal and the Day of the Lord as essentially the same thing?
“We have finally decided that Europe will speak with one voice, that of Mr. Solana.” | Jacques Chirac Regarding Solana's visit to Damascus for the Hariri inquiry Solana to Restore EU Ties with Syria (March 9, 2007)
“Solana has the power and has had it since January 30, 1999. We are speaking with one voice through Javier Solana.” | Madeline Albright USA Secretary of State Regarding Solana being given sole power to make all further military decisions over NATO Balkan operations.
“I agree with Javier Solana's decision to do this.” | Bill Clinton March 21, 1999 in regards to the forthcoming bombings from the above quote.
“Relations between the EU and Israel are also part of the Union's wider efforts to contribute to a resolution of the Middle East conflict. The achievement of lasting peace in the Middle East is a central aim of the EU, whose main objective is a two-state solution leading to a final and comprehensive settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict based on the implementation of the road map, with Israel and a democratic, viable, peaceful and soveriegn Palestinian State living side-by-side in peace within secure and recognized borders and enjoying normal relations with their neighbours.” | Javier Solana
“As I've tried to point out, the European Neighbourhood Policy does not replace the process launched years ago in Barcelona. It renews it, clarifies it and breathes fresh life into it.” | Margot Wallstrom regarding the ENP and fears that it was replacing the 1995 EURO-MED [E.U. "ROMED"] Agreement
“[The European] neighbourhood policy [ENP] is not a substitute for the Barcelona process; it rather underpins and deepens it.” | Javier Solana December 17, 2006
A most compelling proof that Muhammad taught his followers to advance the cause of Allah by the use of the sword, is provided by the example of his immediate successors, known as Califs. They followed his intense fanaticism in waging relentless wars of conquests against Christians, Jews, and pagans. In a relatively short time they carved an enormous empire for themselves. At the height of their power, the Muslims' territories stretched from northern Africa and southern Europe in the West to the borders of modern India and China in the East. Their battle cry was: "Before you is paradise, and behind you are death and hell.
Spirit wrote:When do you see the rapture taking place--around the 6th seal? If so...how far into the 70th week do you see that occuring. Some people think that the 6th seal is well into the 7 year period (toward the end). I see it more occuring around the middle of the 7 years..in conjunction with Matthew 24 where Jesus says "immediately after the tribulation of those days..." after just having referred to the AoD. After the tribulation of those days, Jesus describes the scenario which mirrors Joel 2:10 language and also 6th seal language. See scriptures below:
Day of the Lord Scripture
Joel 2:10 The earth quakes before them,
The heavens tremble;
The sun and moon grow dark,
And the stars diminish their brightness.
11 The LORD gives voice before His army,
For His camp is very great;
For strong is the One who executes His word.
For the day of the LORD is great and very terrible;
Who can endure it?
6th Seal Scripture
I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold,[a] there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon[] became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders,[c] the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
Mtt 24
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mtt 24:29-31 sounds a lot like the rapture??? which, if so, that would place it shortly after the abomination of desolation as opposed to a few years after the AoD.
Mr Baldy wrote:Hi Triton57!
I have read your theory concerning your difference of "God's Week" differing from "Satan's Week"; in that they differ by one being on a 360 day calendar -(being God's Week), and 365 day calendar - (being Satan's Week).
Now, if I am correct in assuming that this is what you mean, and in reading what you have posted, you have placed your timing of the 70th Week - based on mathematical reasoning and signs in the heavens - starting on October 5, 2005 (Rosh Hashanah).
Further along in your theory, you have posted that you believe that the AOD will occur sometime in February 2009.
Now, unless I have missed something - even considering that you are viewing this on a 360 day calendar, wouldn't the AOD possibly occur in April of 2009.....(According to your Theory)?
I guess I'm not quite understanding the difference of days in the 360 days vs the 365 days, in your indicating that the AOD could possibly occur sometime in February 2009.
Thanks for your assistance, and please keep up the Outstanding Work!
AndCanItBe wrote:I don't know all of the details of this feast but as I understand it, in Biblical times it could be delayed up to two weeks if the barley harvest wasn't ready.
I have very little time online, so will be brief. First of all, I Cor. 15's Last Trump refers to the Hebrew belief/tradition that Abraham cut off the two horns of the ram he sacrificed in place of Isaac. The first was blown on Mt. Sinai during the Exodus, when the LORD came down. The second/last, and greater horn, is to be blown at the End of Days; in our understanding, when Christ comes down. Paul knew nothing of the seven ANGELIC trumpets of Revelation, which prophecy had not yet been given. Compare Ex. 19:19-20 -- "And ... the VOICE OF THE TRUMPET sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, ... 20 And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai'' with 1 Thes. 4:16 -- "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD..."
As far as End Time sequence goes, too much is made of Dan. 9:24-27, which is one of the most obscure passages in the Bible: every version translates it differently. It well could have been fulfilled in 66-73 AD. There is no clear SECOND WITNESS for it anywhere.
To answer your questions: yes, the Lord comes at the 6th Seal, which is at the time of Matt. 24:29-31. Yes, it occurs shortly after the Abom. of Des; probably weeks or at most months. The Lord says he will cut the time short. The "Great Tribulation, such as was not from the beginning of the world...nor shall ever be [again]" (Matt. 24:21), is a very short period, corresponding to the seven weeks of the Exodus that followed the "great cry...of Egypt, such as was not like it before, nor shall be like it again" (Ex. 11:6). The Israelites then fled into the wilderness; Jesus said the same of the Jews in Judea following the AD; Revelation says the same of the Woman of Rev. 12:6 --"The Woman fled into the wilderness..." After the Woman's/God's peoples' End Time flight (= the virgins of Matt. 25 going out to meet the Bridegroom), they will undergo a period of Tribulation/testing before the Lord comes down on heavenly Mt. Zion (Heb. 12:22f.); just as the Lord came down on Mt. Sinai, a type and shadow of the latter event.
I could say more, but running out of time. Find my other posting called "The End Times for Dummies" in the prophecy debate section. Or visit my website at ourchurch.com/member/d/dummies. The whole sequence of End Time events is explained there in brief. Bessings, William
WilliamL wrote:Re: Pre-wrath Timing? by Spirit on Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:07 am
Explain your theory on when the seals come into play. Do you see the 6th seal and the Day of the Lord as essentially the same thing?
When do you see the rapture taking place--around the 6th seal? If so...how far into the 70th week do you see that occuring.
Mtt 24:29-31 sounds a lot like the rapture??? which, if so, that would place it shortly after the abomination of desolation as opposed to a few years after the AoD.
I have very little time online, so will be brief. First of all, I Cor. 15's Last Trump refers to the Hebrew belief/tradition that Abraham cut off the two horns of the ram he sacrificed in place of Isaac. The first was blown on Mt. Sinai during the Exodus, when the LORD came down. The second/last, and greater horn, is to be blown at the End of Days; in our understanding, when Christ comes down. Paul knew nothing of the seven ANGELIC trumpets of Revelation, which prophecy had not yet been given. Compare Ex. 19:19-20 -- "And ... the VOICE OF THE TRUMPET sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, ... 20 And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai'' with 1 Thes. 4:16 -- "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD..."
As far as End Time sequence goes, too much is made of Dan. 9:24-27, which is one of the most obscure passages in the Bible: every version translates it differently. It well could have been fulfilled in 66-73 AD. There is no clear SECOND WITNESS for it anywhere.
To answer your questions: yes, the Lord comes at the 6th Seal, which is at the time of Matt. 24:29-31. Yes, it occurs shortly after the Abom. of Des; probably weeks or at most months. The Lord says he will cut the time short. The "Great Tribulation, such as was not from the beginning of the world...nor shall ever be [again]" (Matt. 24:21), is a very short period, corresponding to the seven weeks of the Exodus that followed the "great cry...of Egypt, such as was not like it before, nor shall be like it again" (Ex. 11:6). The Israelites then fled into the wilderness; Jesus said the same of the Jews in Judea following the AD; Revelation says the same of the Woman of Rev. 12:6 --"The Woman fled into the wilderness..." After the Woman's/God's peoples' End Time flight (= the virgins of Matt. 25 going out to meet the Bridegroom), they will undergo a period of Tribulation/testing before the Lord comes down on heavenly Mt. Zion (Heb. 12:22f.); just as the Lord came down on Mt. Sinai, a type and shadow of the latter event.
I could say more, but running out of time. Find my other posting called "The End Times for Dummies" in the prophecy debate section. Or visit my website at ourchurch.com/member/d/dummies. The whole sequence of End Time events is explained there in brief. Bessings, William
sewfancy wrote:triton,
I was wondering what were the signs that you spoke of that occurred on Oct 5, 2005. I verified that Oct. 5, 2005 was the second day of Rosh Hashana, but according to Nasa's website, the annular solar eclipse happened on Oct 3, 2005. Were there any other things that you were finding significant?
Thanks,
sewfancy
WilliamL wrote: This King of the North cannot be the Antichrist. Which leaves the question: what great power might invade and attempt to conquer the Middle East, and then "come to his end, and none shall help him" (Dan. 11:45) BEFORE the "time of the end" begins? Hmmm??
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