About yout blog

This forum is for questions related to Herb's views, Bible prophecy and evidence for the truth of the Bible and our Christian faith (Christian apologetics). The questions are for Holly only. One poster per thread please.

About yout blog

Postby rjsjt on Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:07 pm

Holly,

I recently read yoru blog about the new apostoloc and prophetic movement. I have a question about your sources for your assumptions on certian people that may or may not be associated with that movement, such as Dutch Sheets, Joshua Mills, Heidi Baker, and Graham Cooke. Could you please provide your source material on these people, so that I can perform my own resaerch on them. I have read some of the books by Graham Cooke and from what I have read it does not appears that he teaches anything contrary to what the Bible teaches.

Thanks and God bless
rjsjt
 

Postby Holly on Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:51 am

Dear rjsjt,

I haven't read Graham Cooke's books or listened to his teachings. I've only read brief excerpts of his teachings on the Elijah List, and I've seen ads for his books and teachings there. Steve Shultz, the publisher of the Elijah List, calls Cooke the Elijah List's "most-popular-ever prophetic teacher."

Cooke's ministry association with leaders in the apostolic-prophetic movement, like Shultz, is a cause for concern. Even though I haven't read his teachings on the prophetic, I suspect that they are troublesome since they are so heavily endorsed by Shultz, who, as you know from my blog, I believe has a dangerous lack of discernment and promotes false prophets. (You can read some of my reasons for saying this at my blog: www.spiritoferror.wordpress.com)

Also, when I look at Cooke's ministry Web site ( link ) and his church's Web site (The Mission in Vacaville, Calif., the church where he serves as a leader), I can't find a standard statement of faith listing the essential Christian doctrines like the Trinity, deity of Christ, etc. What I do see on the church Web site is a list of beliefs that emphasize the importance of seeking supernatural experiences. (I can't provide a link to the church site because the server is down right now.) That doesn't mean Cooke doesn't believe the essential Christian doctrines, but for some reason he and his church don't emphasize them. It's dangerous when ministries emphasize experience over doctrine. We must have our doctrine in place so we can correctly discern our experiences. Also, we can’t assume that all churches hold to the essential Christian doctrines. I know of ministries and churches, for example, that don’t think the Trinity is an essential doctrine and allow members that don’t believe in the Trinity. Yet, throughout church history, the Trinity has been seen as an essential doctrine, and those who reject it have been viewed as heretics (i.e., not true Christians). C. Peter Wagner, for example, doesn’t believe the Trinity is an essential doctrine (see his book "Changing Church") and ministers with those who reject the Trinity. So, it’s crucial for churches to have clear statements of faith so their members can know if they uphold key doctrines.

Dutch Sheets is very connected with the apostolic-prophetic movement. He is a member of Wagner’s “International Coalition of Apostles.” See membership list here. ICA Web Site In fact, Wagner is a member of Sheets’ Springs Harvest Church in Colorado Springs. Wagner is perhaps the leading proponent of the apostolic-prophetic movement (he calls it the “New Apostolic Reformation”). Sheets also co-authored a book with another leader in the apostolic-prophetic movement, Chuck Pierce: “Releasing the Prophetic Destiny of a Nation.” And Sheets is a frequent contributor to the Elijah List.

I hadn’t heard of Joshua Mills before you asked me about him, but from visiting his Web site I see that he ministers at conferences with Bob Jones and Todd Bentley, both of whom I believe are false prophets. I don’t have time to go into my reasons for that now, but plan to cover them on my blog in future posts. Mills also has appeared on the TV program, “Extreme Prophetic with Patricia King," promoting gold dust manifestations in his meetings. Patricia King is a key player in the apostolic-prophetic movement.

On Mill’s Web site, he claims that he worships and preaches “by standing under the cloud and ministering directly from the glory unto the people.” I don’t see any apostles in the New Testament claiming something like this for themselves. This seems to be a tactic to get his followers to think he has a special connection with God that gives him great authority.

I know very little about Heidi Baker other than that she has a ministry to orphans in Mozambique. She has been featured on the Elijah List a few times but, beyond that, I don’t know if she has connections with the apostolic-prophetic movement.

I hope this helps!
Holly
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