Matthew 7:23

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Matthew 7:23

Postby mrgravyard49 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:50 pm

Who is this talking about? Jesus Saying " Depart from me I never knew You" Sort of scary I think..
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby Abiding in His Word on Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:51 pm

Well, the second part of that verse tells who Jesus is speaking to..." you who practice lawlessness."

G458
anomia
From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness: - iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

I'm thinking Jesus is referencing those who "call" themselves Christian, but practice wickedness; i.e. Jack Shapp, Warren Jeffs, Jim Jones, etc. They are appealing to the outward imitations of Christianity, but in reality, are full of evil thoughts and actions.

That's how I see it.
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby Sunny on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:49 pm

I'm thinking Jesus is referencing those who "call" themselves Christian, but practice wickedness; i.e. Jack Shapp, Warren Jeffs, Jim Jones, etc. They are appealing to the outward imitations of Christianity, but in reality, are full of evil thoughts and actions.

That's how I see it.


That's how I understand it, too, Abiding. A few verses earlier in that passage, Matthew 7:15 defines who Jesus is talking about.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby slick on Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:03 am

Hello Gang,

I believe its much broader than that, when you compare the passages dealing with Jesus return and the various judgement. you see a broad scale group of those who claimed Christ but were in fact unsaved and or false christians. and as the end draws closer that group of "TARES" is increasing and the lines of those truly saved are becoming blurred.....The WOLVES, JOEL OLSTEEN, ROB BELL, etc...are influencing millions into a feel good gospel that is set to condemn an entire generation!

Timothy tells us, " ...HAVING ITCHING EARS THEY WILL...." meaning the so-called believers will become dissatisfied with the orthodox teachings and abandon the traditional GOSPEL... we are seeing this unfold in a manner like never before in todays world...."TRUE BELIVERS" are becoming by far and large a huge minority!!

GOD-BLESS,

THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!! :armor:
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby Sunny on Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:37 am

I believe its much broader than that...


Clarence, I also thought that, but couldn't think of any scripture to back it up last night. You did that beautifully!

Also like the 5 foolish virgins who were not prepared for His return. After Jesus closed the door on them, He also told them, "I never knew you."
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby slick on Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:01 am

Sunny wrote:
I believe its much broader than that...


Clarence, I also thought that, but couldn't think of any scripture to back it up last night. You did that beautifully!

Also like the 5 foolish virgins who were not prepared for His return. After Jesus closed the door on them, He also told them, "I never knew you."


Thanx Sunny! I am troubled deeply by what I see happening in todays "CHURCH" .....the vast majority of so-called evangelicals are embracing or (abandoning) standard theological truth like it was so much trash! Doctrines such as ...ETERNAL DAMNATION, JESUS ONLY, CHEAP GRACE ( SAY A PRAYER, SIGN A CARD, WALK AN AISLE)....HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE & UNIONS, IDOL WORSHIP..... ON AND ON. the list of perversion is endless!!!!

That's why it says in Peter "...JUDGEMENT MUST BEGIN WITH THE HOUSE OF GOD..." 1 PET 4:17

and the word apostasy carries the meaning , STOOD APART FROM, carrying with it the idea that they had once been among the church but for some reason fled from their association....

Cheap Grace! doesnt cost anything, and you get what you pay for NOTHING!!!! so when the GOING GETS TOUGH, wimps flee!

those that do will be those that Jesus is speaking about!!!!

GOD-BLESS,
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS! :armor:

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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:05 am

It is all about response to the word of God.

Those who hear the word but do not do what it says vs. those who hear the word and do what it says.

Those who lay claim to faith yet do not live by God's word are deceiving themselves, they are not known by the Lord, they are not saved, though they might believe that they are.

Those who have real faith- are determined to live by the word of God, they are doers of the word, and they are saved.

Matthew 7:15-27
15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 “A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 “So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25 “And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.

26 “Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27 “The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”


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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby slick on Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:16 am

Resurrection Torchlight wrote:It is all about response to the word of God.

Those who hear the word but do not do what it says vs. those who hear the word and do what it says.

Those who lay claim to faith yet do not live by God's word are deceiving themselves, they are not known by the Lord, they are not saved, though they might believe that they are.

Those who have real faith- are determined to live by the word of God, they are doers of the word, and they are saved.

Matthew 7:15-27
15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 “A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 “So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25 “And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.

26 “Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27 “The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”


RT



ABSOLUTLY RIGHT!!!!!!!! Jesus says JOHN 14:15 "IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS"
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby Sunny on Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:18 am

Exactly, RT.

Another verse that clarifies it is:
But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:9
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:42 am

Those who hear the word but do not do what it says vs. those who hear the word and do what it says.


ABSOLUTLY RIGHT!!!!!!!! Jesus says JOHN 14:15 "IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS"


Just out of curiosity, what commandments/words are we to keep/obey/do?

Surely we're not speaking of a salvation based on works. So what are those words referring to if Matt. 7:23 means those who are not doing what scripture says and/or not keeping His commandments?
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby slick on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:00 am

Hello Abiding,

I Believe, that once we are saved we will keep all the commandments, and at the least making disciples, loving one an another, as well as the lost....not that we work for salvation, but after and if, there needs to be some mental, emotional and physical change in direction.
a continued disregard or lifestyle continuance is a clear sign that NOTHING took place no matter what words were spoken.

Phl 2:12 (NASB) — So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;


Works DONT SAVE, but THE SAVED WORK!!!

GOD-BLESS,

THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS! :armor:

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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:25 am

slick wrote: I Believe, that once we are saved we will keep all the commandments, and at the least making disciples, loving one an another, as well as the lost....not that we work for salvation, but after and if, there needs to be some mental, emotional and physical change in direction.


Yes, scripture says once we are born again, we are new creations and that all things are new. That would include our behavior, attitude, and above all, our love of the Lord.

a continued disregard or lifestyle continuance is a clear sign that NOTHING took place no matter what words were spoken.


Agreed to an extent. We certainly can't judge the speed with which the Holy Spirit is working in one's life nor the area He is focusing on as His priority. That's why judging a person's salvation is not our job imo. For example, the Holy Spirit might be convicting a person about his/her use of pornography while we are gauging his salvation based on his/her lack of Sunday church attendance and/or fellowship with other Christians. We just can't know.

Phl 2:12 (NASB) — So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;


Works DONT SAVE, but THE SAVED WORK!!!


So if the saved aren't working....Jesus will say "Depart from Me?" That equates salvation by works, doesn't it?

I don't think those are the "lawless" ones Jesus was speaking to.
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby Sunny on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:26 am

Abiding in His Word wrote:
Those who hear the word but do not do what it says vs. those who hear the word and do what it says.


ABSOLUTLY RIGHT!!!!!!!! Jesus says JOHN 14:15 "IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS"


Just out of curiosity, what commandments/words are we to keep/obey/do?

Surely we're not speaking of a salvation based on works. So what are those words referring to if Matt. 7:23 means those who are not doing what scripture says and/or not keeping His commandments?


No, it's not legalistic works. Jesus said all the law is fulfilled in loving God and loving our neighbor. Here are some verses that clarify His commandments. There are lots more, but these are a good overview.

This is my commandment, That you love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. These things I command you, that ye love one another.


Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. Galatians 6:2

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” John 13:34-35
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:36 am

Sunny wrote:No, it's not legalistic works. Jesus said all the law is fulfilled in loving God and loving our neighbor.


:a3:

It's not works at all really, legalistic or otherwise. We are not saved by our works. It's an attitude of the heart that loves God and neighbor. That's what's changed when we become born again; our heart. It turns our focus away from ourselves and our efforts and toward Him. That's His mercy toward us and our faith in Him.

So revisiting Matt. 7:23.... who are those lawless ones Jesus is speaking to?
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby Keeping Alert on Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:50 pm

Perhaps the quote in KJV may make it clearer who the lawless ones are...

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


From what I understand, the phrase "work iniquity" is in the progressive tense in the Greek I.e. they continue to work iniquity.

This is in contrast to verse 21 which talks about "he that doeth the will of the Father" which is also continuous in nature.

So it is the sense of continuity, a general direction in one's life, which may not even have any particular evidence of change of behavior at conversion, and which may be fraught with many failures, but the general focus of the converted person is upwards.

Which ties in with the good tree good fruit, bad tree bad fruit analogy that Jesus gave a few verses afore. The good tree may not show fruits initially and may have immature and sickly fruits occasionally but good fruits it will one day produce...
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

πατερ δοξασον σου το ονομα
Father, glorify thy name.

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby Mrs. B on Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:41 pm

Matthew 7:23.......


Matt. 7:23......And then will I (Jesus) profess unto them.....I Never KNEW you:
depart from me, ye that work iniquity.....


Jesus says.....I personnely never knew you...

The false believers deceive themselves....because they have no personnel relationship with Jesus....

21...Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven;

but he that doeth The Will of My Father which is in heaven....

We must Obey what Jesus is telling each one of us to do.....We must be lead by His Holy Spirit....we must Obey the leading of the Holy Spirit.....
Obedience.....we must obey....we must Know Him....and follow Him....Go as His Spirit leads us to Go...and do what His Spirit is leading us to do.....They that are lead by the Spirit are the sons of God....we are born again....born of His Holy Spirit....and we are to follow Him...Obey Him....Hear what the Spirit is saying to the Church.....we are the Church we must obey and follow Him.....then we Know Him....we have a personally relationship with Him....My sheep Know My Voice and another they will not follow...We Must Know Him.....
To know about Jesus is not enough....we must Know Him....That what is flesh is flesh...that what is spirit is spirit...
Marvel not that I say, ye must be born again....God is a Spirit and we must worship Him in spirit and in Truth...Jesus is Truth.....He has given us His Holy Spirit and we must learn to be lead by His Holy Spirit...

The Word and the Spirit Agree.....Jesus said Follow Me...we must Know HIm....to know about Him is not enough...we must know Him.....

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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:04 am

I agree that as believers we are not saved by works, but works are a direct result of our salvation.

2 Peter says:
2 Peter 1:2-11
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;
3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.
5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.

8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.


Peter points out that by the divine power of God we have been granted everything we need to pursue a life of godliness. he then lists these attributes of the divine nature (AKA fruits of the Spirit). These are not works that lead to salvation, but rather works that are supplied to us via the Holy Spirit as a result of our salvation. We supply the works that have already been granted to our faith. Peter says that as long as we possess these qualities and are growing in them that we will be useful and fruitful for the kingdom. As long as we put the fruits of the Spirit into practice we will never stumble. In order to put the fruit into practice we have to turn from following our flesh and yield to the Holy Spirit, so that His work might be wrought in us resulting in spiritual growth to maturity (sanctification).

However Peter also says those who do not have these qualities are either blind (never responded to the gospel) or short sighted (initially responded to the gospel but never truly repented of the deeds of the flesh)- these are those who think they're saved but live as double minded men serving the flesh and not yielding to the spirit, but deceived by their own sense of personal piety. These are those who may appear to be saved but as others have said here remain unknown to our Lord.

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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby slick on Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:21 pm

1Jo 3:4-6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby mark s on Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:47 am

I only have a moment . . . but I think the lawless ones Jesus refers to are those who think their works will get them in. They were never born again, and so never had a relationship with Jesus, but think that the things they've done will be enough.

While they think their works are enough, Jesus declares them to be workers of iniquity, their works are not righteousness, they are sin.

Jesus told the disciples what the work they were to do was. Believe in the One Whom God had sent.

Believers will do works, but we cannot judge other people's salvation based on what we see or don't see, since we cannot see into the heart.

We can exhort to good works, but the heart of the matter is that we love each other.

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby mark s on Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:51 am

he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.


Hi RT,

I'd suggest that what Peter is saying here is that the one who lacks these things doesn't see what God has done for him. He's been purified from his sins, but has forgotten this.

I think this equates to slipping back into a legalistic mindset, and not realizing that these qualities are available to you regardless of your past sinfulness.

We can sometimes think that we are disqualified because of how bad we've been. I think that Peter is telling us that's not so, and to remember what Jesus has done. He's freed us to become these transformed men and women of God.

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby 4givenmuch on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:09 pm

I only have a moment . . . but I think the lawless ones Jesus refers to are those who think their works will get them in. They were never born again, and so never had a relationship with Jesus, but think that the things they've done will be enough.

While they think their works are enough, Jesus declares them to be workers of iniquity, their works are not righteousness, they are sin.

Jesus told the disciples what the work they were to do was. Believe in the One Whom God had sent.

Believers will do works, but we cannot judge other people's salvation based on what we see or don't see, since we cannot see into the heart.

We can exhort to good works, but the heart of the matter is that we love each other.

Love in Christ,
Mark


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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:18 am

Hebrews 5,
13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
In Christ Always,
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:29 am

mark s wrote:
he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.


Hi RT,

I'd suggest that what Peter is saying here is that the one who lacks these things doesn't see what God has done for him. He's been purified from his sins, but has forgotten this.

I think this equates to slipping back into a legalistic mindset, and not realizing that these qualities are available to you regardless of your past sinfulness.

We can sometimes think that we are disqualified because of how bad we've been. I think that Peter is telling us that's not so, and to remember what Jesus has done. He's freed us to become these transformed men and women of God.

Love in Christ,
Mark


I guess I see this differently. I would equate it with the Rocky and Thorny soils in the parable of the sower:

Matthew 13:5-8
5 “Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil.
6 “But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 “Others fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out.
8 “And others fell on the good soil and yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.


Matthew 13:20-23
20 “The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
21 yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.
22 “And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
23 “And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”


The word is received by both the soil that is "rocky" and the soil that is full of "thorns". There is an initial positive response to the gospel, there is an initial sprouting of belief, but with both this initial belief withers away and yields no fruit. This is why James says:

James 2:18
18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”


The works or produce of faith in Christ, are the fruits of the spirit produced in our lives as we yield to Him and deny our flesh. This fruit bears witness to the world that we are indeed in Christ. Because if we are in Christ (Justified) we will also become like Him (sanctified). The word goes in the word comes out!

If we call ourselves believers and yet lack the qualities of the divine nature of Christ then how can we be in Christ? because He sanctifies those whom He justifies. The work wrought in us is evidence of our justification. Those who have an initial positive response to the gospel and make the mental ascent to believe and yet there is no firm root so that their belief withers under trial, and those whose belief is choked out by the worries and desires of the world, do not respond with understanding of what the word of God truly means. They have forgotten their initial response to the word of God that is able to justify them. The result is that the initial belief did not result in a true faith which not only justifies but also sanctifies.

Short sighted implies that one has closed his eyes to what he once believed was true. Having forgotten what he once laid claim to. Just like the Rocky and thorny soils.

Growth will ultimately occur in one who has believed with understanding, one who is truly justified- the good soil. Thier response to the word implanted results in a true faith that will cause them to grow in the divine nature, and as long as there is growth, no matter how small or how slow, then they can be assured that the door to the kingdom is wide open to them. Those who are justified will be sanctified, that is a spiritual fact.

2 Timothy 2:19-21
19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness.”
20 Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor.
21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.


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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby mark s on Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:03 am

Hi RT,

I believe I understand what you are saying. I have to stay with Peter's words, these are people who were cleansed of their sins, but they've forgotten this. But having failed to remember, to realize what God has done for them, doesn't mean that they were not cleansed.

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:53 pm

mark s wrote:Hi RT,

I believe I understand what you are saying. I have to stay with Peter's words, these are people who were cleansed of their sins, but they've forgotten this. But having failed to remember, to realize what God has done for them, doesn't mean that they were not cleansed.

Love in Christ,
Mark

So here's a question then- if Jesus died for the world (Jn 3:16) if he gave His life as a sacrifice once for all mankind (Heb 7:27,9:26) Then isn't it true that Jesus made Justification for all men? But only those who believe and understand what that sacrifice means are saved right? If one forgets that they have been purified from their sins, then aren't they in essence closing their eyes on the sacrifice that was made in order to purify them? They have shut their eyes to the truth of the gospel that it is able to save their souls. To be short sighted is to see something for only a short time, to behold it temporarily and then walk away. James puts it very eloquently:

James 1:22-25
22 But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.
23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror;
24 for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was.
25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.


James calls the short sighted- hearers who merely delude themselves.

The hearer of the word- hears the truth, that their debt of sin was paid for in Christ's sacrifice, he looks at himself as if in a mirror and sees himself for the sinner he is,in other words: he is convicted by the word concerning his sin and believes what he has heard about his need for a Savior. But when he walks away and does not abide in the words that he heard he forgets all about the wretched sinner he is and that he is in need of purification. He continues in his sinful fleshly natural state.

These who forget are those same who Peter speaks of, who have forgotten their purification of their former sins. They have shut the door on their ability to be justified, by failing to repent of their fleshly nature. It is the same with the Rocky soil and the thorny soil. And I believe with these "short sighted" ones mentioned by Peter.

2 Peter 1:8-11
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.


Peter points out that the qualities of the divine nature render one useful and fruitful in the true knowledge of Christ saying that as long as they are practiced the practitioner will never stumble. Conversely the blind and short sighted do not put into practice the divine nature AKA the fruits of the Spirit, because they do not they are rendered useless and unfruitful. If ones faith is useless and unfruitful then how can it be faith based on the true knowledge of Christ?

John 15:2-6
2 “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3 “You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4 “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6 “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.


James 2:17-26
17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”
19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God.
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.


useless faith, and fruitless branches, represent those blind and short sighted in Peter who are fruitless and useless concerning the truth- faith that does not result in sanctification is not true faith, it is not saving faith. They may have been grafted into the the vine having responded favorably to the gospel but they did not abide there, they never bore fruit, their branch dried up and died. Just like the seed sown upon the rocky soil. And dead branches are gathered up and cast into the fire- they are not saved. The saved rather are those who produce fruit, they are pruned so that they might be preserved and bear even more abundantly.

RT
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Re: Matthew 7:23

Postby mark s on Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:16 pm

In 1 John 1:9, confessing our sins is prerequisite to being cleansed, so I think these are born again. Forgiveness is given to all, but we have to receive it to be cleansed.

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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